---
title: House Governmental Affairs Committee, January 28, 2026
collection: meetings
id: 2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs
cite_as: House Governmental Affairs Committee, January 28, 2026, video https://vimeo.com/1159346354 (machine transcript by Georgia Commons)
canonical_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs
md_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs.md
text_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs/text
source_url: https://vimeo.com/1159346354
date: 2026-01-28
status: machine transcript
corpus_version: meetings-2026-10-23-8c15ead0f18d
license: Machine transcript and summaries by Georgia Commons from the General Assembly's public video; the video stays on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel; see about.md
publisher: Georgia Commons, an independent project of Georgia Civic Data. Not the State of Georgia. Not legal advice.
up: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28.md
previous: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/senate-finance.md
next: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-industry-and-labor.md
index: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/index.md
chamber: House
body: House Governmental Affairs Committee
body_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/house-governmental-affairs.md
meeting_kind: committee
session: 2025-2026 Regular Session
start_time: 2026-01-28T15:00:00-05:00
location: 606 CLOB
duration_seconds: 4925.0
video_id: 1159346354
video_title: 1.28.26 Governmental Affairs
agenda_url: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/house/Governmental Affairs%2FUPDATED Governmental Affairs Committee Meeting Notice with AGENDA 1-28-26.pdf
bills_discussed:
  - HB 903
  - HB 140
summaries_model: gpt-6.1-sol
transcript_turns: 241
transcript_chars: 70011
parts:
  - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs.md?start=0
  - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs.md?start=59554
---

# House Governmental Affairs Committee, January 28, 2026

House Governmental Affairs Committee; January 28, 2026; 2025-2026 Regular Session.

Video, on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel: https://vimeo.com/1159346354. Agenda: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/house/Governmental Affairs%2FUPDATED Governmental Affairs Committee Meeting Notice with AGENDA 1-28-26.pdf.

> This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays.

## Summary written by Georgia Commons

Written by gpt-6.1-sol from the transcript below. It is not part of the record. Quote the transcript or the video, not the summary.

The committee approved [HB 903](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb903), which the sponsor described as expanding oversight of state agency rules, and [HB 140](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb140), which would limit cities’ reliance on fines and forfeitures. For [HB 140](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb140), members adopted an amendment phasing in the limits through 2030 before sending the amended bill to Rules. Both bills passed by voice vote, with no vote counts stated. The chair announced that [HB 613](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb613) had been withdrawn from the agenda at the sponsor’s request. The committee also heard from DeKalb County’s chief executive about housing affordability, rental registries and rent increases, and from a citizen urging protection of voting access and opposition to federal executive involvement in elections.

## Bills discussed (2)

Each account was written by gpt-6.1-sol from the stretch of the transcript it names. The bill's number is said in that stretch, unless it was the only bill on a committee's agenda.

### HB 903. Georgia Administrative Procedure Act shall apply to all executive branch agencies; provide

[HB 903](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb903) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [0:30:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1844s), turns 32 to 78.

The sponsor said the bill would bring state agencies, boards and authorities under the Administrative Procedure Act so legislators could review rules and challenge those that exceed the laws the legislature passed. The sponsor said the judiciary and governor’s office itself would remain outside its scope. One member questioned why the text removed the governor’s exemption and requested an opportunity to offer an amendment preserving it. The sponsor said the intent was to cover executive agencies and deferred to legislative counsel’s drafting. No amendment was formally offered. The sponsor also questioned the fairness of Labor and Revenue using their own employees to hear cases. An attorney supporting the bill said they had not observed inherent unfairness in those departments, but said moving hearings to independent officers could raise cost and timing questions. The attorney also questioned the treatment of rules issued directly by the governor’s office. A witness for Eternal Vigilance Action supported uniform review, saying agencies should not exercise lawmaking authority reserved for legislators. The committee approved the bill by voice vote, with no vote count stated.

### HB 140. End Local Taxation by Citation Act; enact

[HB 140](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb140) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [0:48:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2888s), turns 79 to 232.

The sponsor said the bill would prevent cities from depending on excessive fines and forfeitures and reduce pressure on officers to collect revenue. The substitute updated the effective year. The sponsor then offered an amendment developed with the Georgia Municipal Association, replacing the proposed 10% cap with limits of 30% in 2027, 25% in 2028, 20% in 2029 and 15% in 2030. The amendment required excess receipts to go to the state general fund. Using prior-year data, the sponsor said 37 cities exceeded 10% and nine exceeded 30%. Several members questioned whether affected cities would raise taxes or struggle to operate. The sponsor said the phase-in allowed time to adjust and prioritized residents over city revenue. Asked about existing radar restrictions, the sponsor said this bill covered a broader range of fines and forfeitures. A member with Department of Public Safety experience supported the bill and described officers changing citation categories to avoid existing limits. The sponsor was unsure whether the supplied data included school-zone camera receipts but believed the bill covered them. An independent consultant supported the bill, citing court debt’s effects on low-income residents. The committee adopted the amendment and approved the amended bill by voice votes, then sent it to Rules. No vote counts were stated.

> The transcript runs 70,011 characters. A reader that cannot take it at once can read it in 2 parts: part 1 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs.md?start=0; part 2 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-28/house-governmental-affairs.md?start=59554.

## Transcript (241 turns)

[0:15:30](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=930s) Okay, if everybody will bear with us just another minute, we're working out a few, uh, possible changes here, so give us just another minute, please.

[0:21:00](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1260s) Okay, we're gonna go ahead and get started. Apologize for the delay. Just trying to work out some last-minute details. Uh, first of all, this is our first full committee meeting of this session for House Governmental Affairs. Uh, anybody here for another reason, you might be in the wrong room. Before we start the meeting, I would like to, uh, ask Representative Olaleye, if he would, to, uh, offer a word of prayer to, for the committee, please.

[0:21:26](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1286s) I can stand.

[0:21:27](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1287s) Oh, sorry.

[0:21:30](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1290s) Let's bow our heads. Dear Heavenly Lord, thank you for this day that you have made. Thank you for placing us in it. Uh, continue to bless us with discernment and wisdom so that we may make decisions that are for the betterment of our communities, our families, and this state. Uh, thank you for this great collection of friends, stakeholders, and colleagues. Uh, and, uh, let us, uh, continue, uh, to do the work, good work in your name.

[0:22:00](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1320s) In your heavenly name we pray. Amen.

[0:22:02](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1322s) Amen.

[0:22:05](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1325s) Thank you, Representative Olaleye. All right. Uh, today we have three bills on our agenda. We- one of those we were asked to pull, so we're only gonna be, uh, considering two bills today. Uh, House Bill 613 is taken off the agenda, so we'll be, uh, looking at House Bill 903 and House Bill 140 in just a few moments. We do have a sign-up sheet, had a few people sign up, and, uh, I'm gonna kinda take things a little bit out of order, uh, that we normally do. We're gonna, I'm gonna, uh, call on a special guest today to address the committee.

[0:22:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1357s) Uh, this is a little different from what we normally do, but I think the subject matter is important. It's something that this committee has had extensive discussion on, and we'll have more discussion related to housing and some of our experiences locally here. And, uh, what I'd like to do, if I can, is call on, uh, Representative Mary Margaret Oliver to, uh, give us a brief introduction.

[0:22:57](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1377s) Thank you, Mr.

[0:22:58](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1378s) Wh- which, which button?

[0:22:59](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1379s) Six.

[0:23:00](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1380s) Six. Six.

[0:23:02](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1382s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm very delighted to have with us today our new CEO of DeKalb County, Elaine Cochran Johnson. She has taken- Yes, we'll give her a little applause.

[0:23:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1397s) Our new CEO has taken a very strong, very helpful leadership role on housing for our county. Uh, she has been concerned about the out-of-state purchase of single family homes, which is, DeKalb County's targeted. She has turned around our, uh, housing authority to focus more on providing actual, uh, units for, uh, low income folks in need. She's commissioned with the other commissioners a study on the, uh, impact of extended stay hotel residents that are falling in our cracks in a wide wa- variety of ways.

[0:23:51](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1431s) Very happy to have her with us, just to introduce her and her housing leadership expertise to the committee, and for her to say, with the chairman's permission, just a couple of minutes about her interest in housing and her w- wish to work with us in this body. Would you like to come to the podium and just say hello to us? Thank you for being with us today.

[0:24:15](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1455s) Thank you all so much for having me. Um, to each and every one of you, and to Chairman, um, Victor, let me say thanks. Uh, it's an honor to be here. I di- I thought I was coming to sit around a table. I didn't know it was gonna be all formal and I'd be, uh, standing here in front of you. But I'm more than well prepared to talk about the topic, uh, as it relates to housing. Um, you know, because when we're talking about housing, I wanna be clear, uh, as I've said, I've never seen a pothole care who fills it, and I've never seen, uh, a road who cares who resurfaces it.

[0:24:49](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1489s) Um, the issues that we're facing, all 159 counties face them. Uh, and it doesn't matter. This is not a partisan issue. This is a human issue. And across, uh, I'll say Georgia, and in particular in DeKalb County, um, we face some unique issues. And as it relates to housing, uh, I will more than gladly forward to you all our legislative agenda for this session. But housing is one of our top priorities. So I'll just share with you briefly, um, that DeKalb County, we are supporting, uh, legislation to maintain a comprehensive list of rental and vacant properties, because in DeKalb County, depending on where you are, uh, DeKalb ain't quite equitable in terms of how we look.

[0:25:34](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1534s) When you cross s- into South DeKalb, which I call Memorial Drive, the Mason-Dixon Line, over 52% of our 100 residential properties that have been purchased over the past five years have not been purchased by individuals, but by LLCs, Wall Street, and private investors. So increasingly, we are seeing hardworking folks that are competing with corporate entities to own homes. And I wanna be clear that the American dream is becoming a dream deferred to many people, because if the truth is told, for many of us that sit in this room, if we had to purchase our homes today, w- again, under current market terms, we could not afford them.

[0:26:20](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1580s) So across not only metro Atlanta, but across the United States, I'm seeing us begin to create a working class homeless population. And homelessness, unfortunately, now it really looks like you and me in many instances. Uh, we commissioned a study by Ernst & Young that showed that in order to afford a two-bedroom, two-bath apartment in metro Atlanta, if you earn minimum wage, you must work 140 hours a week That is not realistic, nor is it sustainable.

[0:26:55](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1615s) So we're asking for the rental registry because what we find increasingly is that over 70% of our code violations are for properties that are not owner occupied. And because we have no way of identifying who those owners are, they are not readily available, we are creating blight in our communities. So we ask that you are sensitive to the issue, because home ownership has a responsibility. You have to be responsible for what you own.

[0:27:26](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1646s) So we're asking that you please, um, give us the right and the ability, um, to have a rental rate, a, a rental registry. And also, I would like for you to consider, because I wanna be clear, I'm as capitalistic as anyone in this room. I'm not here to say that I don't promote the rights of individuals who own properties. But what we're finding, in 2020, there was a 20% increase in rental rates, and in 2021, an additional 16% if you live in Metro Atlanta.

[0:28:01](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1681s) So during a two-year period, you saw a 36% increase in rental rates. And over the past five to seven years, it's been a total of 40%. That is not realistic, nor is it sustainable. So I ask that we look at history here, because if you look at New York, California, um, Washington, D.C., and many of our other major metropolitan cities across the United States who've learned, they now have rental rate caps.

[0:28:35](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1715s) So year over year for a 12-month period, you cannot increase rent more than 5% on average. However, I want to say that St. Paul, Minnesota has the most stringent rental rate cap, and they cap rental rate increases at 3.5%. So in order to protect those who own properties, um, we are only having that apply for the current tenant. Of course, after that tenant moves along, then that property owner would have the ability to adjust the rental rate as they see fit.

[0:29:09](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1749s) And also, we're, uh, saying that it would not freeze rents, nor does it apply to new leases or prevent landlords from adjusting rental rates over time. So with that said, uh, I don't wanna overstay my welcome. I'm not gonna tarry long. I'm a southerner. I don't wanna bore you, but I have shared with you some very realistic concerns. And I wanna say to you that as our legislators, we are depending on you. America is at a crossroad in a very critical time, and if we wanna make America great again, we have to make homeowners, and we have to make people work.

[0:29:49](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1789s) So you can send me to a different committee on that, because I'm a woman who's full of opinions. But I do hope that you will at least entertain and, and do the research, and we're more than happy. We didn't bring them along enough of our legislative, uh, agenda books for 2026, but I'm more than happy to empower you with all the resources that I have to hopefully make some informed decisions on the behalf of, uh, the people of the State of Georgia. And thank you, and I guess I'm here, so if there's questions, I'll more than happily answer them.

[0:30:23](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1823s) Okay.

[0:30:24](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1824s) Okay.

[0:30:24](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1824s) Thank you for your presentation, and if, uh, if you could forward that information along to us, uh, uh, Molly and, uh, Dan, of course, over here can, can make sure we get that information to the committee.

[0:30:34](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1834s) And, and thank you so much. Thanks for inviting me.

[0:30:36](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1836s) Thank you.

[0:30:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1837s) Okay.

[0:30:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1837s) All right. Now we're gonna move into the, uh, uh, the presentation of bills. The first one we're gonna entertain is House Bill 903.

[0:30:48](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1848s) Chairman Powell, would you prefer to present from your seat or-

[0:30:51](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1851s) No, I prefer to stand.

[0:30:53](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1853s) Okay, sir. Okay, sir. We'll, we'll...

[0:31:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1868s) And as Chairman Powell's coming up, for anybody who came in late, uh, we originally have four, had three bills on the agenda: House Bill 140, House Bill 1, 613, and now House Bill 903. Uh, the author of 613 requested that bill be pulled from the agenda for today. Uh, it will come back at a later date. So we're only having the two bills, we're hearing the two bills today. So Chairman Powell, you can proceed when you're ready, sir.

[0:31:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1897s) Thank you. Let me see if I can get this to work. Does this thing need to be open? Good. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and ladies and gentlemen of the committee. I bring to you today House Bill 903. Uh, and let me give you a little background on the genesis of this bill. You know, over the years, I've dealt with a lot of the legislation. I've dealt with the bureaucracy and trying to make government work a little bit better. Last year, we did a bill on the, uh, on the COAM division that dealt with the lottery.

[0:32:13](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1933s) And we had seen some things over there at that time that were hedgy to us in the rule and reg making powers that these agencies have. And in that bill we passed last year, we put the lottery under the Administrative Procedures Act. Now let me tell you a little bit about the APR. What the Administrative Procedures Act does, it says that if you're a state agency or, um, or a board or a committee or whatever it may be, uh, with the state agency, that if you're doing rules and regs, if you're subject to it, then you go through the process, you have your hearings, you do your rules and regs, and then you send them to the secretary of state's office, where they're then printed And then they're sent to the Legislative Council, which assigns them to whichever appropriate committee of the House and the Senate that would be dealing with that, such as alcohol bills would probably go to Reg Industries.

[0:33:13](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=1993s) Uh, transportation bills may go to the Transportation Committee and likewise. And the genesis of this is that, quite frankly, the legislature in this state, we've always had a strong gubernatorial system in this state. I think everybody knows that, and it's gotten stronger over the years. But even more than that, I equate it to what's happening in state government in my 36 years, that we're actually getting to a point where so many of the agencies and the disconnect, they're passing rules and regs that have, that go against the whole purpose of law that we had.

[0:33:50](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2030s) We had a situation in Motor Vehicles, uh, where one of the committees, uh, boards had made some rule changes about a certain industry. We didn't even know about it. It'd been done for 20 years, and as problems continue to escalate in that particular industry, we had to deal with it. We'll be dealing with that during the session. What this bill does, ladies and gentlemen, is quite frankly it puts all state agencies, boards, authorities, and likewise under the Administrative Procedures Act.

[0:34:21](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2061s) It gives you as legislators finally an opportunity to do what you're elected to do, and that's to oversee state government. The only folk that we've left out of this, and that's because of the, the, of the separation of powers, and that's the branches. The judiciary is not involved in it, nor the governor's off- office proper. But agencies, boards, authorities, and the such. So if they're passing these rules and regs, we need to know what they are.

[0:34:52](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2092s) Once it goes to that committee chair, he then talks about it to the committee, lets them know, and they have an opportunity to make a comment. If there's opposition to it, then there's a process to stop that until there's further discussion. And that's quite simply what it does. In my opinion, and I was thinking about this yesterday, I passed a couple of bills in my years up here, that this is probably in my mind one of the, one of the best bills to stop an overactive bureaucracy, if I may it, it may s- if I may say that as such.

[0:35:28](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2128s) That's what this bill does. I would bring your attention to a couple of spots. I'd be reluctant if I didn't. If you'll look on the, uh, if you'll look on line 22 and 24, two of the departments, Labor and Revenue. Labor and Revenue, they have their own judicial system within their departments. Now, I'm not gonna say it's right or wrong, but I have a concern with it.

[0:35:58](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2158s) I'm surprised that there hasn't been a litigation filed against them, such as they have hearing officers that are hired by the Labor Department to hear cases, and they act as a judicial panel. The same with the Revenue Department. While whereas a lot of the other agencies, they have opted to go ahead to go to OSHA, which is an independent hearing council, not paid by the, not paid by the agencies. I dare say, and I'm not making any accusations, but if these a- if these various agencies, if they have their own, uh, employees that are acting as judges, sometimes I wonder just what's the fairness to that in a hearing.

[0:36:41](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2201s) So I want to bring your attention to that. Uh, if that's your will to allow those agencies to continue doing that, then all it takes is just a couple of word changes to say except in these judicial hear, uh, their, these hearings by them, and that'll be left up to the committee if they so wish. And that, Mr. Chairman, is the, what this bill does, and I think you will find as a legislature, legislator, whether you're here for a short time or for a long time, this might be the most important thing you've done to start taking back some of the authority of the legislature, is what you took an oath of office to do.

[0:37:25](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2245s) I'll be glad to stand for any questions. Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. We do have one question right now. Uh, Representative Sanchez. Thank you, Chairman, and thank you, Chairman Powell, for this. I know we talked about this in subcommittee yesterday and then also this morning. Um, I'm still on the question, you said in your statement that, um, this still maintains the branch's separation of powers, and so you said that the governor's office proper is not included in this, but it does, it does take out the exemption for the governor itself. So can you just clarify exactly what the crossing out of the governor is in this bill?

[0:37:59](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2279s) We're trying not to step on the governor's toes, but remember, all these executive agencies work under the governor's office, so we're dealing with those agencies, is what we're dealing with. Okay. Got it. And, and so- And the judiciary, God forbid if I were to tamper with the judiciary. You know, they'd swat me with a hammer, I guess. But- I'm, I guess my question is if, if the agencies are already all listed here, does there need to be a crossing out of the governor as well, or? I wouldn't think so. Leg council wrote this bill, and I'm not an attorney, but I certainly take it that they know from what they do.

[0:38:33](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2313s) Got it. Thank you. Um, Chairman, if it's okay, would I be able to, at the appropriate time, um, make a motion just to amend, to take out the striking out of the governor on line 15? Excuse me. Uh, we will consider proposed amendments, uh, once there's a motion on the bill. Thank you. Thank you. A- any other questions or comments of, uh, Chairman Powell?

[0:38:56](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2336s) All right. Seeing none. Thank you, sir. We do have a few people signed up to speak to the bill. Uh, just going in order

[0:39:03](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2343s) Les Schneider, would you like to come to the podium please, Les, and proceed at your pleasure, sir. Members of the committee, my name is Les Schneider with the law firm of Wimbley and Lawson. I'm here pro bono, so I, I feel that this is a very important issue that Representative Powell has brought forward. Again, the main emphasis is to make sure that any regulations or any rules that any administrative agency puts forward, that you as the legislature have the final say as to whether or not you think that particular regulation is a correct interpretation of the law that you all have passed, and whether or not you think that agency has gone beyond the scope of its authority.

[0:39:49](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2389s) And I think if you d- if you don't pull back that ability to do so, then I think you've let an un- unelected bureaucracy run the place, not you all, and I think it's a huge mistake. Um, I realize, as Representative Powell's indicated, in addition to the rulemaking authority that all these agencies do, they are, they do ki- have some hearings. And I just would like you to know that I've been before, uh, hearings before the Department of Labor.

[0:40:20](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2420s) I've been at before Revenue. I've been at before other agencies. I would say in the case of Labor and the case of the Revenue Department, I haven't seen some, any inherent unfairness. But it is an issue that you all have to decide, whether or not you think the best situation is to have an agency have their in-house hearings, or whether it should all go to OSA, with which those are independent hearing officers. That's a decision you have to make, and obviously there, I'm sure there's a cost issue.

[0:40:55](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2455s) I'm sure there's a timing issue on how quickly the hearing decisions can get rendered. But don't lose sight of this is all about rulemaking, and this is all about you having the final say on whether those rules are consistent. Um, I do think it's, it's important, and I think it's gonna set the tone for what happens in this legislature over the next decade. I don't understand how some agencies in this state would be under the Administrative Procedures Act, but others would not.

[0:41:28](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2488s) Uh, this is not a matter of, you know, celebrating Passover under the Jewish religion, and why is this night different than all other nights? All agencies should be the same, and they all should get the same treatment. Um, I would take one, uh, point. On line 15, I would not cross out the governor. I would leave it the way it is, and the reason for it is, for instance, during Zell Miller's administration, Zell Miller basically ran the entire HOPE program out of his back pocket.

[0:42:00](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2520s) There was no law that set out the, the HOPE program. It was only when he was about to leave office that you all codified the HOPE program. Well, his office issued a bunch of regs on the HOPE program, and it laid out, this is how it's going to work. Now, if he's not under the Administrative Procedures Act, then you will never get a shot at looking at those regulations. If, and again, it could be now that the governor doesn't issue any regulations directly out of his office, but if we have another HOPE program that was never passed by the legislature, it was largely run by the governor during the eight years he was here, then I think it would, you would've been left out of the consideration.

[0:42:48](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2568s) So I'm not sure that part should be struck out. I w- I would leave it as, uh, th- as this attorney. The Legislative Council may feel differently. Obviously, the General Assembly and the judiciary should not be included, because that is the separation of power issue. So I would be most appreciative if you all could vote unanimously to pass this bill, because I think it's going to pull back a very necessary authority that the, that the legislature has.

[0:43:20](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2600s) And frankly, over all the years I've been here, I have confidence that legislators who look at what agencies do need to have the opportunity to say yay or nay on those regulations. So, um, with that, I'm happy to answer any questions. I see no questions. Thank you, sir. Thank you. All right. Nest, next is, uh, Don Hackney. Um, Mr. Chairman, I, uh, wasn't going to speak on this bill.

[0:43:51](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2631s) Oh, okay. I apologize. We, we, we made an assumption there that you were, since it was in that area, so- Thank you ... I, I'm assuming you wish to be called later. Yes, sir. Okay. Uh, okay. Scott Turner.

[0:44:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2648s) Always a pleasure to speak to the best committee in the House. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, uh, members of the committee, Chairman. I am so excited about this piece of legislation. Uh, as Chairman Powell was presenting it, I was having a hard time not shouting hallelujah and amen a lot. Uh, we are the, I, uh, I'm Scott Turner. I'm obviously a former member of this committee, and also the executive director of Eternal Vigilance Action, which was the organization that brought a lawsuit that you may have read about. I hope you've read s- extensively about, because it fundamentally changes the, the court case decision that we received in that action.

[0:44:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2684s) Fundamentally changes the way that you are going to be legislating from now on. And it, we reestablished something called the non-delegation doctrine, which goes to, I think, Representative Sanchez's question. The non-delegation doctrine essentially is that you are legislators, and you're not necessarily allowed to give away your lawmaking authority. The state constitution says all lawmaking is done by you.

[0:45:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2708s) And there are state agencies and boards across the state that have abused that notion. They have decided to extend their authority that it was not legislated to them by you, and oftentimes this ends up in a situation where courts are forced to decide whether to give the agency deference or the small guy, the little guy, the individual, the opportunity to hear their voice and, and have their interests protected. But it all comes back down to a decision that you get to make because you are the lawmakers.

[0:45:39](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2739s) And this is a fundamental reestablishment of separation of powers in this state. So the, the case law exists. Did not eliminate rulemaking authority, but it does, does put some very specific things around it. This is a great step at reestablishing separation of powers because it makes everything uniform, and it gives you the opportunity to take a look and review the rules that are being made by these agencies to make sure that they are actually acting with legis- what you intended when you passed the law, and then it was signed into law constitutionally by the governor.

[0:46:14](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2774s) Right now, we have unelected bureaucrats across the state who are trying to push the envelope at every opportunity at the cost and the detriment to the individual citizen of Georgia. This is a great piece of legislation for the little guy. So Eternal Vigilance Actions thanks Chairman Powell for his authorship and sponsorship and all the other co-sponsors and for this committee, and we'd urge you to pass it. And I also would stand for any questions. I could speak at length about our court case if you'd like, but I don't wanna put everybody to sleep.

[0:46:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2804s) Some of you might actually find it exciting. I see Chairman Hitchens over there chomping at the bit, so.

[0:46:52](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2812s) Thank you all. Thank you, and, uh, we will defer that conversation till some later date. Yeah. I will get back to you. Thank you. Uh, no questions at this time. Thank you, Scott. Yeah. Okay, that's, uh, everyone who wishes to speak to the bill that we have on our sign-up sheet. Uh, what's the will of the committee?

[0:47:13](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2833s) Motion to pass.

[0:47:13](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2833s) We have a motion to pass. Do we have a second?

[0:47:15](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2835s) Second.

[0:47:15](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2835s) We have a second. Any discussion? Okay, uh, whoops, we got, uh...

[0:47:26](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2846s) No comments.

[0:47:27](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2847s) Okay.

[0:47:28](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2848s) Here.

[0:47:28](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2848s) Did you... Oh. Oh, okay. No.

[0:47:30](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2850s) Sorry.

[0:47:30](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2850s) That's fine. Okay. Just making sure. All right, seeing no discussion, all in favor of the bill say aye.

[0:47:36](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2856s) Aye.

[0:47:36](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2856s) Any opposed? Motion carries.

[0:47:38](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2858s) Mr. Chairman and committee, I certainly wanna thank you, and I think that no matter how long you're here, this could pay dividends to your service so that you can feel good about knowing that what you have passed is what is being implemented. And I wanna thank, uh, Mr. Turner. Let him be a good example to you. If you stand here long enough, you'll lose all your hair when you get out.

[0:48:02](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2882s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And a bunch of points off your blood pressure too. Okay, we're gonna move on to, uh, House Bill 140. And, uh, Chairman Gullett, if you'd like to either come to the table or the podium, whichever one is more comfortable for you.

[0:48:20](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2900s) We do, uh, bring the, the committee's attention to, uh, this point. We do have a committee substitute. Uh, Chairman Gullett, if you will, before you start, if you'll make sure we're all working from the right LC number. Uh, the substitute primarily, I believe, uh, changes the effective date. Uh, and then there will be a, uh, potentially a proposed amendment once we get to that point, uh, by the author, who's also a member of this committee, so he can do that. So...

[0:48:49](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2929s) Thank you. Thank you, members of the committee. Um, bringing to you House Bill 140. The substitute is LC473922S. Um, this is something that we, we talked about last year, voted out of committee. Um, go through it again here, and then we also have an amendment to talk about too, which I think, uh, I've worked a, a good bit with GMA in order for a compromise, um, for what I'm trying to do and for what they need to happen. So, um, this is called the End Taxation, End Local Taxation by Citation Act, which ensures no city in Georgia relies on fines or fees more than 10% of its budget.

[0:49:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=2971s) Uh, cities should not be balancing their budgets through excessive ticketing, and law enforcement officers should not be pressured to meet financial quotas instead of focusing on public safety. When cities become dependent on citation revenue, it creates a perverse incentive to p- prioritize ticket writing over crime fighting, undermining trust in law enforcement and weakening public safety. Uh, this bill promotes fiscal responsibility by ensuring cities plan sus- uh, sustainable budgets without relying on excessive fines and fees. Uh, this bill keeps law enforcement focused on protecting our communities, not acting as revenue collectors.

[0:50:03](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3003s) Um, we talked about last time Alabama passed a bill with a cap of 10%. Um, Missouri and Utah have similar bills that they've passed, and I'm not sure honestly if someone else has passed one since we last talked about it, um, last year. Uh, it did pass out of committee, um, last year. It was in Rules Committee. Um, that's the bill. It's, uh, it's really just to focus our law enforcement officers on, on the jobs they're doing and not revenue collecting. I'm happy to answer some questions about that.

[0:50:32](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3032s) Okay. We have a couple of lights here. Uh, Representative Olaleye.

[0:50:39](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3039s) Thank you, Chairman. Chairman Gullett, I appreciate your work on this, and we, we definitely don't wanna be encouraging speed traps. I, I'm curious, do you have a, a number of the municipalities that would exceed that target 15% threshold?

[0:50:57](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3057s) Yeah. So at the very end in '20... Well, so it's 10% in the bill. We can talk about the bill, and then the amendment's a little different, but 10%, it was 37 cities-

[0:51:07](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3067s) Got it

[0:51:07](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3067s) ... uh, last time. Um-

[0:51:09](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3069s) And- And when we go through, when we get to amendment piece, I'll, I'll go over how many that's gonna cover each time. And I, I'm assuming it'll change 'cause somewhere around the line and each fiscal year changes and ... But give us an idea. Got it. Res- Representative, if I may real quick. I know you, I p- didn't mean to interrupt your qu- Yeah ... your question there. But, uh, I was gonna ask, uh, Chair Magellett, uh, even though it's not time to consider the amendment, but to just briefly describe the amendment in case that answers any of the questions that, that anybody may have on this- Sure. I, I'm, I'm happy to do that ... the amendment has been passed out, correct?

[0:51:41](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3101s) It has. Okay. You do have a copy of the amendment in front of you. Uh, it references the old LC number, I believe, so that, but, but that, that can be corrected at the time- Appreciate it ... of the motion. So appreciate it, sir. That's right, yeah. Just at, just at the top it says amend, uh, HB 140 LC 47. I scratched it out, but it's really amending 3922S. The only sub change that was on today's sub was the year, so, um, that's, that's why there was a sub for today, and I didn't have that until I got to the meeting. Um, but what this does is it, it, it does a step down.

[0:52:11](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3131s) Um, and so in- instead of going 10% in the next fiscal year, um, it'll go no more than 30%, uh, for January 1st, 2027, 25%, uh, January 1st '28, 20% January 1st '29, and 15% January 1st, 2030. Um, so that's what the, that's what the sub does. And instead of going 10 per- going to 10% r- effective, you know, January 1st, we're gonna step it down, um, till 2030. Um, and instead of it going to 10% the bottom cap or, or the cap is 15%.

[0:52:45](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3165s) Um, so as far as the numbers are talked about that, so I only have the data from last year. I don't have the current data. I don't think GMA ... I haven't gotten any new data yet. Um, but, uh, the top bracket, um, so the first year twen- uh, the 30%, that would include nine cities today. Um, one city is at 59% today. Uh, one city's at 56.12, 54.35, um, all the way down to 31.53.

[0:53:15](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3195s) So that's if it was today, nine cities. Um, the next one, um, the 25% would affect two additional cities. Uh, they're at 27.66 ... Actually, it would affect one, I'm sorry. Uh, the other one's 24, so it'd affect one city, not two. Um, the next one would affect eight cities. Um, they go from 24.62, the bottom one is 20.47, so significant enough to where, you know, these, these smaller cities that, that could impact, it could be less. Um, and then the, the following, the last one where you go to 15%, um, that goes nine additional cities, um, with the bottom one being at 15.05 today, or when I had the last data.

[0:53:56](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3236s) So, um, it would exclude, that's 27, it would exclude at least 10 cities, um, from the bottom over four years, um, when they have time to understand what's happening, so it's not as drastic. Okay. And I'll go back to you, Representative Olaleye. Thank you, Chairman. Um, and I, I, I appreciate that additional runway so that municipalities can a- adapt. And, uh, have you had any c- any conversations with, uh, city managers or municipalities that would fall on this list just to learn more about how they would rectify and, and balance, um, making up that difference in their revenue?

[0:54:33](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3273s) Yeah. I'm sorry? Okay. Um, so n- I haven't since last, last session. I did talk to a number of city, um, city managers when we dropped the bill last year. There's, there's an extended period of time from when we dropped the bill, um, and to when we actually had the hearing. Uh, I talked to a number of city managers at that time. Um, and they were, they were not the, the ... They would all, I believe, would fall into not exc- not included in this new one because they were- Yeah ... um, below the 15% mark.

[0:55:04](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3304s) Um, so I can't say it from the people who have, you know, 59% of their budget. Uh- Yeah ... I didn't talk to their city manager. I did talk to a number of police chiefs, um, uh, at the time. I talked to my local ... I even talked to police chiefs who w- who were, um, concerned about the legislation who weren't affected by this. Um, I don't know if, I just don't know if the policy, we can just agree on the policy. I don't think it's really a difference other than, um, you know, they, they're doing the best that they can. Um, but also knowing that police chiefs, um, are appointed by city councils, and they have different pressures sometimes than, than your average police officers.

[0:55:38](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3338s) And so from the police officer perspective, which is really what I, I, I don't, can't say I don't care about the administration of the police departments. But from the police officer's perspective, I think that a number of them want to do police work, and they don't want to feel the pressures of, you know, making sure, um, that they're funding the city. Um, they wanna go do police work and, and make sure, uh, the cities are safe. Um, and sometimes that does mean, you know, running traffic, and this bill doesn't stop running traffic, uh, for whatever it is. This is not just a speeding bill.

[0:56:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3368s) This is any bill, civil asset forfeitures in this bill, you know, the whole, whole nine yard- whole nine yards. But they wanna do police work and whatever that entails, and it's not gonna stop them. It just stops them f- financially gaining from doing police work over a large percentage of money for the entire city budget. Appreciate it. Thank you. Sure. Thank you. Okay. Uh, and just as a, as a commentary there related to the, the discussions with city officials, this amendment, as I understand it, is it not true this amendment was developed b- with communications between Georgia Municipal Association and yourself regarding this, this proposal?

[0:56:41](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3401s) That's right. Yeah, GMA and I, um- Their, their organization was involved in that

[0:56:51](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3411s) Okay. Vouch for that, but- All right. And now we'll recognize, uh, Representative Oliver. I may be re- not remembering this correctly, and, um, Mr. Hitc- Representative Chairman Hitchens may be able to answer better. There used to be a statute or a process where public safety oversaw the city's use of

[0:57:11](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3431s) ... uh, traffic offenses, and if they went above a certain level, they lost their ability.

[0:57:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3437s) Right.

[0:57:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3437s) So there was a checks and balance on the speed trap phenomena.

[0:57:21](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3441s) Mm-hmm.

[0:57:22](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3442s) I wonder how closely your numbers relate to the, um, those settings that were set forth. I don't know if they were set forth by statute or by regulation. I just remember a city losing its ability to issue any traffic ticket based-

[0:57:38](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3458s) Right

[0:57:39](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3459s) ... on it violating the formula. Does anybody e- Am I right about that?

[0:57:42](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3462s) Yes.

[0:57:42](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3462s) Do you know if I'm right about that?

[0:57:42](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3462s) So cities, cities... Yes. Radar is a privilege in the State of Georgia. And, um, the, my understanding is that there is a percentage of your police budget, but it's only for speeding tickets. It's not for other tickets. So what happens is if you go to court and you get, you plea down to reckless driving or super s- you know, you get a super speeder, that's not a speeding ticket. It's only for speeding tickets. So if you have a moving violation, too fast for conditions or whatever it is, it doesn't count towards that percentage. Um, and I think that's a, a little wrinkle that departments know about.

[0:58:16](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3496s) So most don't actually get speeding tickets above that number to get their radar pulled. One recently has gotten their radar pulled. But it's, it's really about, um, speeding only. This is really the, the whole, you know, gamut.

[0:58:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3511s) So the process that, uh, public safety has would be a fewer number of cities that it would sanction or take away. It's then your, your list would be longer. Is that what you just told me?

[0:58:42](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3522s) It's just different. Um, theirs is specific with the speeding, and I think, um, Department of Public Safety has the ability to pull the radar if they exceed a percentage of their public safe- of their, of their police budget for speeding tickets. Mine covers all fines and fees, including civil asset forfeiture fines and fees for the entire city budget. So it's a, a larger budget and a larger segment of, of fines and fees coming in.

[0:59:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3548s) So it makes sense that your list would be a lot longer than public safety.

[0:59:10](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3550s) It kind of, it kind of fills... It, it keeps, in my mind, it keeps the, uh... There's a gap in, in the radar and the, and the fees as far as being a specific speeding only ticket. People know about a workaround of the process, and this kind of wrangles that up and, and keeps it within the bounds of, of the spirit of what they're trying to do.

[0:59:29](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3569s) And if I may, I'll answer, uh, Representative Olaleye's question. They're, they're gonna tax somebody else or they're gonna go out of business. That's gonna be the response.

[0:59:36](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3576s) They're, they're gonna what? They're gonna what?

[0:59:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3577s) Tax somebody else or go out of business. Isn't that the response of what's gonna happen if they lose this revenue?

[0:59:43](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3583s) Well, I mean, do you believe that taxes, you think, you think... I guess the policy question is, is, is-

[0:59:48](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3588s) Should they go out of business? That's the policy question.

[0:59:50](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3590s) Sure. Sh- uh, sure they gotta... Is, is that, is that a, a good use of a city is to, to be there to collect ticket revenue and civil asset forfeiture revenue to, to fund their self?

[1:00:00](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3600s) I think I voted for this last year. I hope I did.

[1:00:03](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3603s) I honestly don't remember.

[1:00:04](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3604s) I don't remember.

[1:00:04](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3604s) I don't wanna lie to you. I don't know.

[1:00:06](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3606s) I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna take just a little b- little privilege here. Uh, we've got, uh, we're gonna utilize a phone-a-friend, uh, provision here, and, uh, I've got a member of this committee who has continually asked me, he doesn't know why he's on this committee, but maybe today we have a purpose. Chairman Hitchens, would you like to, uh, comment?

[1:00:24](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3624s) Well, as most of you know, I was the commissioner of the Georgia Department of Public Safety for seven years, an employee there for 43 years, and this is an age-old issue. I've got a picture in my office right now guarding the sign down in Ludowici that, uh, Lester Maddox put up in 1970. Uh, at that time, uh, no city or county agencies were allowed to have radar. The only people that had them were the state patrol. And the only reason for that is the state patrol didn't get any monetary benefit. All the money that's collected for their fines or forfeitures goes into the city or county where they're working.

[1:00:54](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3654s) But, and, uh, I've been gone now for 15 years, but I believe it was 50, uh, 50, it was 40% to begin with, and in the legislature, we reduced it, uh, about seven or eight years ago to 35% of the overall budget of the city. Uh, but it delineated the different speeds. And, uh, what happened is, and, uh, and I've had a lot of police chiefs talk to me about what you just talked about, uh, you know, maybe even some promises that if you doubled how much money you brought in this year, we may buy you two new cars next year or s- or something to that effect.

[1:01:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3691s) But... And I know of one instance where a city, uh, was five miles away from, uh, I-16, and they annexed down the, the, uh, the roadway five miles and took in two miles of I-16, and they ran radar out there 24 hours a day, seven days a week, which I don't believe is in the best interest of traffic safety. Uh, but it's an age-old problem. Uh, it's been tried to be corrected. We spent a lot of money with investigating these. Every time somebody makes a complaint, we g- we go out and we pull all the tickets for the different, uh, speeds.

[1:02:05](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3725s) And, uh, I even in a couple of cases been told by some of the officers that, uh, when they were getting close, instead of, uh, writing citations for a specific speed, just as you said, they would, they would charge them with too fast for conditions, so it wouldn't count. Uh, you know, and the other, we, we did take, uh, away licenses for a variety of different things. There's more in the code than just the speeding. Uh, some of the, you know, you have to be visible for 500 feet. You have to be a certain distance inside the, uh, the boundaries of, of where you're running it from.

[1:02:38](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3758s) Uh, you have to use a marked car that has, uh, contrasting color letters on both sides and the, and the trunk. Uh, and we've taken, uh, we've taken some licenses for that. We get, there's a case right now that is in my in my area, uh, where they have a new chief executive officer, and I'm not gonna say what kind of an agency he is, but, uh, he's decided he's gonna get in the speed detection business, which, uh, his predecessors never have been. And he's, uh, he's identified several people to run radar, and he neglected to send them to school.

[1:03:12](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3792s) They don't have any, uh, they don't have any competence or licenses to, to do that. So it's at post-council right now to make a determination about what they're gonna do. But, uh, I, I think certainly, uh, the, the least amount is they're gonna- They're gonna stop them from speed enforcement, but there's probably some law enforcement officers that are gonna have some significant problems too. Uh, but if you're post-certified, you, you should know that. I mean, that, uh, you have to be tested. You have to go to school. You have to be tested and, and, uh, and make sure that you're competent in operating the radar before you can do it.

[1:03:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3824s) But it's a, it's, it's an age-old problem, and, and unfortunately, maybe it's, uh, the smaller rural areas are more involved in it than the, you know, the city of Atlanta or city of Savannah. They, uh, they have calls to answer for serious problems. They don't, uh, they don't run radar very often or, or, or, uh, write speeding citations. But it's, uh, you know, and that is why I, I knew I was gonna get involved in this, but I didn't... I've, I've talked to you about it before, but, uh, I think it's a good bill.

[1:04:16](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3856s) And, you know, some of my, uh, colleagues and some of the municipalities and sheriff's departments around the state probably critiqued me a little bit about it, but, uh, I think it's the right thing to do. And if you're violating the law, you ma- you're dangerous, uh, something needs to be done. But, uh, I don't believe in revenue collection. Uh, in fact, uh, and I'm getting wound up here, but, uh You know, well, it always got to me that, uh, you s- you stop a, a person that's wealthy, and he gets a $300 fine, and it's nothing to him.

[1:04:49](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3889s) Uh, you stop somebody that's on the lower economic scale, and, I mean, it's, uh, it's, it's really a serious injury to them. In fact, back in the '70s when we were under the, uh, the, uh, oil, uh, petroleum crisis, I happened to, to be out and, uh, traveling out west and went through, uh, Montana, which is wide open, and I talked to a couple troopers out there. You know, they required the speed limit to be 55, and, uh, on all the interstates.

[1:05:20](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3920s) And, uh, what they did out there in lieu of, of writing, writing them a citation for speeding, where they would get points, and they wrote them citations for failing to conserve energy and charged them $5 apiece. So, you know, there are a lot of avenues around. And, and, uh,

[1:05:38](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3938s) not many states operate, uh, speed detection devices like Georgia do, does. I mean, it's, uh, as you travel around, you don't see many local agencies on the interstate. Uh, the state police or highway patrol usually does that. And, and they have no interest in, in monetary gain except, uh, you know, traffic safety, so.

[1:05:57](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3957s) That's right. I appreciate you stepping out a little bit. I know you have friends in this space, and, um, I know we talked about it-

[1:06:03](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3963s) Ex-friend, ex-friends.

[1:06:04](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3964s) Ex-fri- ex-friends. I'll be your friend.

[1:06:07](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3967s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right, uh, Representative Aso- Adesanya.

[1:06:14](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=3974s) Thank you, Chairman. Um, thank you, Representative Gullett, um, for making those amendments to, um, break it down over the course of four years. Um, I had concerns in the, last year when you presented, um, and I still do in a way, um, 'cause I'm curious where, um, those cities will make up the difference from. I mean, they, they would... I mean, as you've mentioned, we have nine cities that still falls in the category, um, of making bulk of their revenue, uh, not bulk, but a good portion of their revenue from citation.

[1:06:50](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4010s) Now, I'm not really encouraging, um, cities to go after people and make money from that, but I mean, it is what it is. Um, but if we limit that, I feel like those cities, um, will have to make the money up elsewhere. And, um, uh, I, I don't know what we propose for those cities. Do, do they raise property taxes? Do they increase sales tax, or?

[1:07:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4037s) Well, I guess I would say I'm less inclined to care about a, a government entity making ends meet than the abusive practices of that government entity on the people in that area. And so I don't know what those cities will do. They have four years to figure it out. Add a year from last year because we talked about it last year. This is not a surprise to them. It's a, it's a long runway. And, um, you know, the cities are resourceful, and I'm, I'm sure that they will, will figure, figure this out.

[1:07:49](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4069s) And, and maybe, you know, we have probably... I'm not sure if we have the most cities in, in any state in the country, but I bet we're close. And so, you know, maybe it really is, like Representative Alt- maybe some cities don't need to exist. If you're only existing to run radar, or not even radar, if you're only existing to run police tickets, are you re- should you really be a city? Um, I, I mean, that's kind of a, a question you have to decide. You know, that concerns me because it really is abusive. And I think like, uh, Chairman Hitchens said, it's abusive of typically the, the poorest of us.

[1:08:25](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4105s) And so, um, you know, that's, that's just the reality of it. It's, I, I guess I would choose a, a person over a city most of the time.

[1:08:33](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4113s) All right. And, and just one more quick question.

[1:08:35](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4115s) Sure.

[1:08:35](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4115s) Do, uh, any of the cities within the areas that you represent, do you have any of the cities within your jurisdiction-

[1:08:40](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4120s) That, that make, make that, no, I, I do not

[1:08:42](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4122s) ... that falls in that category?

[1:08:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4124s) I do not.

[1:08:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4124s) Okay.

[1:08:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4124s) But I only have, I only have one city.

[1:08:46](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4126s) Okay. Thank you.

[1:08:47](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4127s) Or I have one and a very small portion of another city. Yeah.

[1:08:50](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4130s) Thank you.

[1:08:51](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4131s) Mm-hmm.

[1:08:53](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4133s) Okay. Representative Burnough.

[1:08:55](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4135s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And thank you, Representative, for your bill. Uh, I would like to know where are these cities at? Are they in urban areas, rural areas?

[1:09:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4148s) Uh, most, I mean, I don't even know where all the cities are. I would say most of them are very rural areas. Um, if we want me to name them, I'm happy to.

[1:09:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4157s) Yes, I would.

[1:09:18](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4158s) Uh, Sycamore City, uh, Warwick City, Lenox, Hiltonia City- Morven City, Pooland, Rocky Ford City, City, ah, Jacksonville City, Stapleton City, Tallulah Falls Town, Tallahatchie County, just kidding, Omega City, ah, Alapaha, Tunnel Hill City. So I would say most, ah, I don't know where all they are. I'm certain that they're all very rural though. It's gonna be very hard for a, for an urban city.

[1:09:49](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4189s) They're larger typically. They have a diverse tax base. They have, you know, more people and more crime that their, you know, their police officers are dealing with than, than, you know, just driving tickets. And, and it'd just be hard for their entire city budgets, which are larger, to actually make that threshold.

[1:10:05](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4205s) So none of the cities are routes with football games and people are going to football games?

[1:10:11](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4211s) Ah. Maybe Friday Night Lights. I have no idea. It's not a ...

[1:10:15](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4215s) Thank you.

[1:10:16](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4216s) Sure.

[1:10:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4217s) Okay. Thank you, ah, Representative Burnough. Ah, excuse me. I'm sorry. We just finished. Thank you, Representative Burnough. Ah, Representative Bazemore.

[1:10:24](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4224s) Thank you, Mr. Chair. And thank you, Representative Gullett, for the bill. And I think everybody said what I wanted to say or the questions, and you did answer them, and I appreciate it because I did have concerns coming in and seeing the original bill. So thank you for the sub. And I think you took into account that it's gonna take a little while for some of these cities to get back that revenue, and they have to figure out how to do it. We're not all pleased about it, but we understand. So thank you again.

[1:10:55](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4255s) Thank you for that.

[1:10:56](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4256s) Okay. And, uh, Chairman Lumsden.

[1:10:59](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4259s) Yes, two questions, uh, one for Colonel Hitchens. Uh, those troopers that you spoke to in Montana, did they track you down, or did you track them down?

[1:11:07](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4267s) I went to the conference.

[1:11:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4268s) Oh, okay. Okay. Just wanted to make sure about that. And the other question had to do, uh, in, in your, uh, calculations a- about the citations issued, the speeding citations, uh, did you take into account those citations that are issued in school zones by the cameras?

[1:11:24](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4284s) I honestly don't know. The numbers came from, um, GMA, I believe, so I, I don't know what was taken-

[1:11:30](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4290s) Yeah, but those are-

[1:11:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4291s) Yeah

[1:11:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4291s) ... a little different than the standard citations issued by officers.

[1:11:32](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4292s) I think they're civil, so I think it would be still taken into account because they're civil, and this includes civil. So if that school is in the city, I think it would be included in that.

[1:11:41](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4301s) Okay. Thank you.

[1:11:43](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4303s) Okay.

[1:11:43](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4303s) Just I'm not a lawyer. I, I believe so. I believe they would be included.

[1:11:48](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4308s) All right. Thank you. Uh, the one last question, if we can keep it kinda quick here. Representative Sanchez.

[1:11:54](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4314s) Yeah, sorry about that. Um, thank you, Chairman. Uh, real quick, I know the original bill ha- included counties. Is there a reason we removed counties from this bill?

[1:12:01](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4321s) Yeah. O- one was that, uh, counties have elected sheriffs, and sheriffs, the people hold those electeds. Cities have council members, but the police chiefs or the, you know, are, are appointed. And so it's really just a, it was just a difference for me at that point, uh, in a, in a vacuum. And then if I was king for a day, I'd probably include counties. But I think just from where it is and the, the way counties are, are organized, it's a little differently.

[1:12:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4351s) Thank you.

[1:12:32](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4352s) Thank you.

[1:12:33](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4353s) Okay. That's all the questions from the committee. Now, we do have a couple of folks signed up to speak to the bill. Mr. Hackney, was that, uh...

[1:12:41](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4361s) Mr. Chairman, uh, just briefly-

[1:12:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4364s) If, if you don't mind, go ahead and step to the podium so we can get your comments on the record here.

[1:12:48](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4368s) So, um, I'm, I'm here. This is the first, uh, meeting of this committee this session, and you deal with election and voting rights bills. And I had just hoped to make brief, less than two-minute comments about your election lawmaking this session.

[1:13:03](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4383s) Okay.

[1:13:04](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4384s) But, yeah.

[1:13:04](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4384s) Well, uh, if we can hold that, uh, we- we'll, we're in... Absolutely. Thank you.

[1:13:09](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4389s) Thank you.

[1:13:10](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4390s) All right. Uh, we have Ray Califane?

[1:13:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4397s) Yes, yes, Califane. How are you?

[1:13:19](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4399s) Yes, sir. Thank you.

[1:13:20](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4400s) Yes, yes. Yes. Uh, good afternoon. I'm Ray Califane. Thank you for the opportunity to speak in support of this bill. I'm an independent consultant who's worked at, at the state level nonprofit doing research and advocacy on this and other related issues for nearly the last six years. HB 140 serves as a critical step towards the elimination of excessive citations and court debt that distorts justice and perpetuates economic harm rather than strengthening public safety. And for those who ar- aren't already familiar, I'm sure most of you are, all of you are at this point with the conversation today, that Georgia's one of the worst states in the country in terms of the concentration of cities that rely on and, and effectively plan for fines and fees that cover at least 10, 10% or more of their local budgets.

[1:14:02](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4442s) And s- in some of the worst cases, as Representative Gullett has mentioned, that, you know, there are cities that rely on fines and fees to fill, to fill more than 70% of their budget. Now, even while there's been a declining number of Georgia cities with excessive fines and fees reliance over the past couple years, that may be in part to the influx of some COVID recovery dollars that went to cities to help them backfill budgets, which means that, you know, m- budgets that can normally be backfilled, um, by, you know, these types of re- re- regressive forms of taxation, um, you know, there, there could be more, right, when, you know, as those COVID dollars dry up.

[1:14:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4477s) So, you know, safeguards like this are gonna be needed more than ever to ensure that Georgia and its cities find fair ways to generate revenue to fund public services. Now, some may also argue that cities, you know, which have relied on very high shares of this revenue, such as speeding tickets, are largely gathering it from out-of-town speeders. I would say that we don't know that exactly, you know, because there's not enough transparency around reporting around what types of fines and fees revenue this is. Is it just speeding tickets? Are these broken taillight tickets? Are they s- you know, court surcharges?

[1:15:09](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4509s) Um, you know, and even just the breakdown across, you know, out of town versus in town, uh, speeders and whatnot. A- along with, you know, just how much traffic, traffic debt and court debt is charged versus what's actually collected and how cities are even allocating this revenue. We don't know that. We're making decisions without even knowing. So perhaps this safeguard, this safeguard bill is also a step towards that, or at least a, a step towards conversations around that. Last, I'll say that- Excessive fines and fees can also be a gateway to criminal legal system entanglement in this state, particularly for those who are economically strapped.

[1:15:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4544s) And that's gotten no easier in this rising affordability crisis that many Georgians face. And those who can't afford to promptly pay fines and fees for minor offenses like traffic tickets can be placed on probation. And in Georgia, where private-for-profit probation is allowed to thrive, that can mean even deeper debt, poverty, and even long-term entanglement in Georgia's criminal legal system. So thank you for your time, and I yield back.

[1:16:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4568s) Thank you very much. All right, that's everyone who has signed up to speak to the bill. Uh, we're at a position where the chair will recognize a motion regarding, uh, LC473922S. The re-

[1:16:21](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4581s) Make that a due pass.

[1:16:22](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4582s) Do a motion due pass.

[1:16:24](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4584s) Second.

[1:16:24](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4584s) Have a second. Any comments or questions at this point? Do we have, uh, we w-

[1:16:28](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4588s) Offered an amendment.

[1:16:30](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4590s) Oop, sorry.

[1:16:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4591s) Yeah.

[1:16:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4591s) Lost you there. Okay. Go ahead.

[1:16:33](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4593s) I offer an amendment, appropriate time.

[1:16:34](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4594s) Okay. Uh, Chairman Gullett is offering an amendment. I believe everyone has the amendment in front of them. Does anybody need a copy of the amendment? All right, and again, the, the referenced LC number on the amendment is incorrect, so we're gonna verbally, uh... Chairman Gullett, I'll let you go ahead and read the amendment referencing the proper LC number for the record.

[1:16:57](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4617s) Sure. So amend HB 140, LC473922S, to rewrite Section 3 as follows. Do you want me to read into the record?

[1:17:06](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4626s) You, you can.

[1:17:07](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4627s) I don't mind.

[1:17:08](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4628s) Yes, please.

[1:17:09](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4629s) Said article is further amended by adding the new code section to read as follows. So striking out current Section 3, uh, 37-81-12A, the funds appropriated in the municipality's budget ordinance derived from funds collected by such municipality as criminal or civil fines, or as a result of a criminal or civil forfeiture action, shall not exceed the following percentages by the following applicable dates. Number one, no more than 30% of the funds appropriated for any budget ordinance adopted by a municipality for any fiscal year beginning on or after January 1st, 2027.

[1:17:42](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4662s) Two, no more than 25% of the funds appropriated for any budget ordinance adopted by a municipality for any fiscal year beginning on or after January 1st, 2028. Three, no more than 20% of the funds appropriated for any budget ordinance adopted by a municipality for any fiscal year beginning on or after January 1st, 2029. Four, no more than 15% of the funds appropriated for any budget ordinance adopted by a municipality for any fiscal year beginning on or after January 1st, 2030. And then B, any funds received by the municipality or criminal, as criminal or civil fines or as a result of a criminal or civil, civil forfeiture action in excess of the amounts provided for in subsection A of this code shall, shall escheat the s- the state at the conclusion of the municipality's fiscal year.

[1:18:31](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4711s) Within 30 days of the end of a municipality's fiscal year, such escheated funds shall be transmitted to the Office of the State Treasurer for deposit in the general fund of this state.

[1:18:44](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4724s) Okay, thank you. We have a motion for the amendment. Do we have a second?

[1:18:48](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4728s) Second.

[1:18:48](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4728s) Any discussion on the amendment? Seeing none, all in favor of the Gullett amendment, say Aye.

[1:18:57](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4737s) Aye.

[1:18:57](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4737s) Any opposed? All right, the amendment is adopted. So now we are back to the original bill as amended. Uh, do we have, uh, let's see. We've already had comment. No further comment. All in favor of the bill as amended, say Aye.

[1:19:12](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4752s) Aye.

[1:19:12](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4752s) Any opposed? Motion carries. Bill proceeds to Rules.

[1:19:16](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4756s) Thank you, all.

[1:19:17](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4757s) Give me a Rules form, and I'll get it signed. All right.

[1:19:19](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4759s) Thank you.

[1:19:19](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4759s) Before, uh, committee, uh, I know a s- a lot of people have committee, uh, committee meetings to go to. If we can, anybody who is, has just a moment, I've got a 4:30 meeting, but we got just a moment. I'd like to give Mr. Hackney a moment to, uh, speak to the committee regarding his, uh, preferred subject matter. So.

[1:19:36](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4776s) Thank you.

[1:19:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4777s) Proceed, sir.

[1:19:37](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4777s) I'm Don Hackney, a retired Atlanta attorney. As a citizen, I have two requests of this committee at the start of this session. First, in Article 1, Section 4 of the Constitution, our Founding Fathers granted the exclusive authority to regulate our elections to only two entities. First, it grants to the states, to you all, the primary responsibility to conduct elections. Then it grants Congress the right to modify these laws from time to time, as it has done with the Voting Rights Act and the NVRA, for example.

[1:20:13](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4813s) Most importantly, our Founding Fathers intentionally refused to grant any election-related powers to the president or to the executive branch. For 250 years, our presidents have honored this prohibition. Please protect Georgia citizens by rejecting any effort by the Trump administration to seize election powers that it does not have. This includes provisions of the president's March 2025 executive order, which courts have ruled are unconstitutional.

[1:20:46](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4846s) It also includes the DOJ's unprecedented efforts to seize our most personal, private information and voting information. I'm sad to say that the Senate Ethics Committee vote in favor of SR 563 was a move in the wrong direction. Second, please don't make this the session where major voting rights of Georgians are trampled on. One of our state's official political parties has proposed that you take away a week of early voting, that you take away drop boxes, that you limit some Saturday voting rights, that you severely restrict absentee votings, and that you make major, that m- that you make voter registration much more difficult.

[1:21:32](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4892s) Please respect voters of all parties and resist this assault on our most precious right to vote. Thank you very much.

[1:21:40](https://vimeo.com/1159346354#t=4900s) Thank you, sir. All right. Committee, uh, we will stand adjourned of our first meeting, and we'll see you next week.