Senate Urban Affairs Committee, January 29, 2026 Video: https://vimeo.com/1067530662 (a timestamp t plays at https://vimeo.com/1067530662#t=s) Page: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-01-29/senate-urban-affairs This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays. [0:22:09] of 2026 for this Urban Affairs Committee, so welcome you. We're gonna get started now that we have a quorum, and we are gonna ask Senator, uh, Wicks to give us our opening prayer. Thank you. [0:22:31] Thank you, Madam Chair. Source of wisdom and peace, we pause in gratitude for the opportunity to serve. May this meeting be guided by respect, thoughtful dialogue, and a commitment to the common good. Help us to collaborate with open minds and caring hearts. Always be mindful of those who depend on our leadership. [0:23:01] Amen. [0:23:02] Amen. [0:23:05] We need to, uh, do we wanna do roll call, or can you just take that? [0:23:10] Um, I've got the roll running. [0:23:13] The, the roll is already running, so we don't have to do roll call. And our... Do you have, uh, all of our staff- [0:23:23] Yes, ma'am [0:23:23] ... names on there as well, so we'll forgo [0:23:28] that. I'm Senator Donzella James, and, uh, today I'm proud to say we have a very good bill that we are about to hear. So Senator [0:23:45] Merritt is gonna present to us Senate Bill 166. Would you like to sit out here? [0:23:54] Yeah. [0:23:54] Okay. And that is... Which way? [0:23:57] This way. [0:24:00] While she's sitting down, let me tell everyone who came for our Urban Affairs, uh, update on, uh, the hearings we've had. We are going to do that right after this bill. So please stay for us. I know it's getting late, but time is of the essence. So Senator, would you like to start and present? [0:24:26] Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for hearing my bill today, and thank you members for coming and, um, giving my bill consideration. So the, the premise of this bill is very simple. Um, y'all know we have corporate landlords, and a, a lot of times they're getting violations at the local level, and the violations can be, the fe- the fine for that can be very low, um, I think $100 here, $200 there. So what this 166 does, it gives counties and munic- municipalities, um, the tool to address repeated code, code violations. [0:25:04] Um, and those violations could be public health or any code violations, uh, especially in our unincorporated area. Uh, this bill is not intended to punish homeowners or your little small-and-pops, um, you know, those that are just, you know, people that have rental properties. That's not who we're targeting here, but this is about chronic violators and holding them accountable. Uh, we did have language in the bill that you have to have a, a particular amount of properties for this to apply to you. [0:25:35] But the bill authorizes, uh, graduated monetary penalties only for repeat violations, um, and that includes, uh, zoning and land use, environmental property maintenance issues, littered/abandoned vehicles, overgrown vegetation, um, anything tied to public health and safety. The enhanced penalties are limited, and they are structured. Um, the second violation is 3,000. Um, I think we're just starting at the second violation, 3,000. [0:26:05] The third is 5,000. The fourth is 10,000, and the fifth and subsequent could go up from there. Uh, if I'm not mistaken, the first violation is whatever is the standard for each county, each locality. Um, there are guardrails. Uh, homestead properties are fully exempt, exempt. Uh, small property owners with fewer than 10 single family or duplex properties in the same county are exempt. Um, permit-related issues and improperly adopted local building codes are excluded, and local governments must, um... [0:26:42] They have to opt in to the ordinance, so it is not mandated. Uh, localities would decide that for themselves if they wanna opt in. So this 166 is pretty simple. It's, you know, to protect our neighborhood, to protect our renters, uh, to improve compliance, to stop repeated offenders, uh, especially as we have, uh, a proliferation of corporate landlords coming in and scooping up properties and renting them. And we wanna make sure that, uh, we know they're able to pay more fines, so we should ask them to pay more fines if they have multiple properties and the violations continue. [0:27:21] Um, one thing I will address, and we did not put this in the bill bec- it has been brought to my attention, and I do agree, we may need to add an amendment to the bill to close the loop on corporate land... First of all, we don't have a registry for them. Um, they could be anywhere and everywhere. I do think a registry is needed, and there should be something mandated for corporate landlords to apply to that registry, number one. And then number two, um, some preventative language. Let's say they get a violation, but they might go open up another LLC. [0:27:53] So we may need to apply some language to the bill so they can't go back and just open up another LLC, and that maybe the registry could capture that. I don't have it in this bill, but that is, uh, something we could amend if we don't have it here. If it pa- makes it past here, we can amend, we can introduce that amendment on the floor. Um, and with that, I'll enta- I'll entertain any questions [0:28:16] Do we have any questions? Yes. [0:28:22] Thank you, Senator Merritt, for bringing this bill, um, to the study commit- I mean, to the, uh, committee. Um, this is a awesome bill, but I have a question for you. Where does the, the funds go, um, if you were to retrieve funds? Do they like go to the beautification or where would- [0:28:39] Mm-hmm [0:28:39] ... sidewalk improvement? [0:28:40] Mm-hmm. [0:28:40] Like, where would those funds go? [0:28:42] Well, they would go back, I guess, to wherever the violation is being applied, so your county. [0:28:46] Mm-hmm. [0:28:46] And, uh, if it's at the municipal level, it would go back to the cities. It's up to them how they apply that money at that time. I would think that would be good revenue for them, but that w- we would leave that up to the local governments to decide. [0:29:01] Any other questions? [0:29:07] Anybody? Before we do that, uh, let me ask legislative counsel. [0:29:13] Yes, ma'am. [0:29:13] Hi. Uh, you heard the possible amendment that she wanted to put on it. Is it possible to do that from this meeting now if somebody makes a motion? [0:29:26] Sure. We could. We can completely work together on that and- [0:29:29] The word- [0:29:29] Yeah, I guess, um, do you just want me to tell it to you? Because I know you guys can make it sound like I want it to sound. [0:29:34] I mean, so this is, this is really what you want to do. Do you, would, if you want to do it at the meeting, we can introduce the language right now or- [0:29:40] Yeah [0:29:40] ... okay. [0:29:40] I can t- I can tell you if, uh, 'cause so I want to do two things. Uh, require a registry for, um, the same, uh, landlords that would fall within, um, [0:29:58] I guess the parameters of what we're saying if you have over... What did I say? Over how many? [0:30:03] Over a lump sum. [0:30:05] Over 10 properties. [0:30:07] Okay. [0:30:07] Mm-hmm. [0:30:07] They would have to, um, file for, be in the registry for that. The second thing is, um, something to address them opening up another LLC. [0:30:22] Of the 10 properties, is there any limitations on the size of the properties or the- [0:30:26] No limitation on the size of the property, just if they own the 10 properties. [0:30:29] Okay. [0:30:29] And then the other would be addressing preventing them from opening the same company, opening up in another LLC or renting under another LLC. [0:30:41] Hmm. [0:30:44] So I'm assuming the registry would capture that problem. If they're registering, we're saying that, that they're, there needs to be something to close that loophole. [0:30:53] Sure. Okay. I, uh... Chairwoman, maybe could I have the, have the committees authority to form the language, um, or can we start having words this is what, what the improvements are going to say? [0:31:09] Mm-hmm. I'm trying to, uh, cut on the speaker so everyone will say it again. Please. [0:31:16] I was just saying, if it's, this is definitely- [0:31:17] That's fine [0:31:18] ... work with, um, you know, if you'd like us to, I mean, it's nothing to do with, um, if I could have the c- the committee's, uh, permission to, to draft language which performs what Senator Merritt just said and put that in here this, um- [0:31:32] You can do it now, or- [0:31:35] Okay [0:31:35] ... it'll take a minute? It, it'll take a while? [0:31:37] Um, we can, I could draft it now too. So there's two ways we could either do it. Either we could try to come up with the specific exact language now, which may be an, a tweak later. You may end up wanting to change it later, maybe. Or, um, if, if, as long as the committee says, gives the authority, then we can, I could just go ahead and write up- [0:31:54] Right [0:31:54] ... a form. [0:31:55] So you would have, the committee would have to agree to the sub. Y'all would have to take a motion to agree to a sub. [0:32:00] Or, uh, we could, uh, give you another, uh, chance to come back with the com- one completed bill, right? [0:32:10] Right. [0:32:10] The sub. And- [0:32:11] We'd do another hearing? [0:32:12] ... and we'll try to do it, but it'll be next week. [0:32:14] Okay. [0:32:15] Of course. [0:32:15] Is that fine with you? [0:32:16] It's which- [0:32:16] 'Cause I think you were trying to do it once. [0:32:17] Which one do you... Yeah, I was trying to give- [0:32:19] Do, do rec that [0:32:19] ... an opportunity to go ahead and go through and pass it. [0:32:24] Okay. [0:32:24] Uh, and I think next week would still be enough time. Do you- [0:32:28] Would we entertain a motion from the committee to table until...? [0:32:31] We will. [0:32:32] Okay. [0:32:32] We will. If, uh, any, uh, anybody else? You wanted- [0:32:36] One, one other question. [0:32:38] Yes. [0:32:38] Thank you so very much. Very great bill. It's very much needed. Uh, tell me about the registry part. [0:32:45] Mm-hmm. [0:32:45] How are we going to, uh, hold these folks accountable if they're not registered within the municipalities, you know, with their- [0:32:54] If they haven't registered? [0:32:55] Yeah, yeah. [0:32:55] Well, actually, you just brought up another good point, and maybe something we need to add- [0:32:59] Yeah, yeah [0:32:59] ... about accountability. [0:33:00] Yeah. [0:33:01] So that maybe is something else we can address as we're doing an amendment. How, what authority would we hold them accountable? Who would, who would that go to? [0:33:13] That's good. And that's something, it may be possible just to circle back if you want- [0:33:16] Okay [0:33:16] ... next meeting. [0:33:18] Yes. Uh, thank you, Senator Sims. It's a great question. It's great. I'm trying to close all the loops, all the loopholes, so that's a, that was a good one. [0:33:26] We're in all five days. Procedurally, we don't need to take a motion to table. We can just say this is gonna be a hear and only, not move this at this time. [0:33:35] Okay. W- we won't table this bill. We will just- [0:33:39] Just come back [0:33:39] ... announce right now that we will, uh, hear you on next week. This was a hear and only thing. [0:33:45] Okay. [0:33:46] Uh. [0:33:46] That's fair. [0:33:47] Okay. [0:33:47] Thank you. [0:33:48] And, and we'll, uh, give you a chance to come back with, uh- [0:33:52] A substitute [0:33:53] ... a substitute. [0:33:54] Okay. [0:33:54] And do we have anyone that, uh, wants to speak for or against this bill? Senate audience? No members want to add anything else to it? Well, I thank you very much, uh, Senator Merritt. [0:34:10] I thought that felt perfect. [0:34:12] Thank you, Senator Merritt, and, and, uh, committee. We will, uh, now end the hearing and take our last item up And it will be, a lot of people are here now for the wrap-up. [0:34:34] Let's see, where are we? [0:34:40] Of our HOA, um, legislation and rent control legislation. Uh, as most of you know, we've had, um, more than six- [0:34:55] Six over the past two years [0:34:56] ... more than six hearings over the past two years for HOA, uh, predatory HOAs, as well as for rent control. Because the students, um, at the colleges were having problems with the fact that they double, triple, or quadruple the rent. It's a bill now, um, that the Speaker of the House was introducing yesterday that had that in it, so we have to make sure we look at that now, um, because his bill will probably pass, and we wanna look at what it would do to our, uh, rent control. [0:35:42] Right now in the state of Georgia, uh, we, it, we don't have rent control, and it was passed many years ago, I think over 20 years ago, to, um, make sure that rent control i- does not happen in the state of Georgia. And, uh, do you know what year that was? [0:36:05] Um. [0:36:05] Okay. We have, we've talked about it over and over again, so, uh, we know that in order to have any kind of control over, uh, whether, uh, a mayor or a, a county commissioner can vote on what goes on in their area as far as rent control is concerned, we have to abolish the, uh, bill, the law now that says that there are absolutely no, uh, rent control for the state of Georgia. [0:36:42] But I think that we need to give local control to this, to the state of Georgia and allow them, because many of those, uh, universities who, uh, don't have enough, um, room on campus, uh, for the students to live, the students have to live somewhere close. And now, when we had the, uh, big, uh, HO- uh, what is it, uh, HBCU, uh, meeting from the Black Caucus, and then we invited all the other universities and colleges, that was the number one priority. [0:37:21] So that's what we're trying to do now. So we'll look at what, what your, um, what, what's his name, Burns, what he said yesterday, and see if that has anything to do with, uh, the bills that we already have introduced. Also, I wanna ask [0:37:44] Senator, uh, Sims- [0:37:47] Yes [0:37:47] ... if you would kind of give a... You've been here, and you know about our HOA problem. [0:37:52] For the last five or six years, been directly involved. Wanted, but, m- before I speak, I would like to know if we have anybody in the audience with any feedback that they could g- quickly give us some feedback about HOA, um, issues. [0:38:13] Come, come on up. I know you can, so can you briefly- [0:38:16] Briefly. Briefly [0:38:17] ... briefly come up and- [0:38:18] Briefly [0:38:19] ... I know that you've probably been to all of those, maybe even more than five or six meetings. [0:38:25] I think maybe 15. [0:38:26] Um, we've had a lot. [0:38:28] So my name is Michael Shepherd. I started the WATCH Project, which is a nonprofit that's dedicated to promoting legislative change that protects homeowners. Um, and th- it promotes change that will hopefully benefit everyone, not focusing on a specific community, 'cause as you know, there's different HOA types. [0:38:47] Mm-hmm. [0:38:47] So really quickly, I just wanted to point out that the needle has been moving. There's a lot of bills, too many to count, uh, that, in a good way. I never thought I would say that. But I haven't seen... Of all the bills I've seen, I wanted to focus on what I see as shortcomings. There's bills to create a commission, ombudsman, to, to monitor elections. But what I did not see, um, and forgive me if you have a bill and I missed this, but I did not see anything related to election, HOA election fraud. [0:39:21] That's super concerning. Um, certain states take that very seriously. Pennsylvania, they treat HOA election fraud the exact same way as if you're conspiring to steal an election or rig an election at the local level. So rigging an HOA election is the same thing in Pennsylvania as rigging a mayoral election, a city council election. Um, so one of my, um, points I wanted to bring up, I'm wondering if someone could look at not reinventing the wheel, but basically tying HOA election fraud to the laws that we already have on the books in Georgia as it relates to conspiracy to commit election fraud or actually committing it. [0:40:01] So that was the first thing. And then the second thing that people have talked about, but no one has addressed, is what I call payment allocation fraud. There are laws already on the books to a certain degree, and new laws that are being introduced in the Senate and the House that talk about your association can no longer, um, take away your right to vote if you only have fines, but you're paying your dues. Um, there's more bills that I've seen in the works. But the issue with that is many associations right now Are taking people's assessment and reallocating it to the fines arbitrarily. [0:40:38] And so I think that needs to be addressed. It's saying if you are sending out a n- an invoice, you have to send it out to where this... You make it clear this is your assessment, this is your special assessment, and these are your fines. Because people who are paying their assessments who shouldn't lose their right to vote are still losing their right to vote because their dues are being taken and misapplied. Um- [0:40:59] We, we did discuss both of those issues. [0:41:02] Yeah. [0:41:03] And we discussed them also in the study committee that was chaired by Senator Brass, and we, his committee heard a lot of more important things. We couldn't address everything- [0:41:17] Mm [0:41:17] ... at one time because we were not trying to reform, we just wanted to put some, it was, um, HOAs had no, uh, oversight- [0:41:29] Yeah, correct [0:41:29] ... at all. So they were trying to make sure that we, uh, stop people's, people from, uh, having their houses foreclosed upon. And so th- those were the first, uh, three issues- [0:41:43] Yeah [0:41:43] ... that, uh, we wanted to address. [0:41:45] For sure. [0:41:46] Because we knew that this would be a short, um, session- [0:41:51] Yeah [0:41:51] ... and we were trying to make sure we got important things passed. [0:41:56] Okay. Yeah. [0:41:56] So that's the main thing. [0:41:59] No, understood. [0:42:00] Uh-huh. But the question- [0:42:00] And I'll take what we're getting. These are really huge steps and huge improvements. Um, and if I make just two other short- [0:42:06] Okay [0:42:06] ... concerns, one in the area of, um, foreclosure. I've seen several people introduce legislation to protect homeowners and say, "Hey, we're gonna tell HOAs, POAs you can't foreclose." I do have one major concern with that. Um, a lot of the people who support the WATCH project, when they hear me say this, their eyes kind of bulge and they go, "Wait, that's, that's kind of a different view." I'm super concerned that if I understand the bill as written and HOAs do lose their ability to foreclose, I have an extreme concern specifically related to condos that if a condo cannot recoup people paying their assessments, 'cause with a condo the assessments are tied to your water bill and your trash- [0:42:50] Right [0:42:50] ... not like a single family or- [0:42:51] Right [0:42:51] ... even a town home. [0:42:53] I know. [0:42:53] I can speak to one of the HOAs I'm involved in where we are $6,000 behind on, on our water bill because people aren't paying their dues. And my concern is that if a condo could not take care of those, that situation through foreclosure, I'm afraid that many people in urban condos especially, who are paying their dues, who are paying their bills, will still lose their home through, ultimately through either local or state level condemnation of that condo because they cannot pay the water bill, the water gets shut off, um, by, not by the condo, but specifically by the municipality or whoever the water provider is, and they can't pay for their trash. [0:43:36] And now everybody, we're trying to protect a few people, at least as it relates to condo- [0:43:41] But- [0:43:41] ... but now everyone is completely condemned. [0:43:43] But let me, um- [0:43:44] So that's one concern [0:43:44] ... clarify this. [0:43:45] Yeah. Okay. [0:43:45] And then we're gonna let Senator Sims. [0:43:48] Okay. [0:43:49] Okay. Number one. [0:43:51] Okay. [0:43:51] If the HOA association has completely locked out the homeowners- [0:43:59] Mm-hmm [0:43:59] ... whether it's in a condo unit or in a housing unit or whatever, I'm a part of that, I'm living through that right now, and have been foreclosed on, received a notice, not because I don't pay my dues every month- [0:44:12] Mm-hmm [0:44:13] ... have always done it, for 20 years, not missed one payment. That's because it fell down on the car and I couldn't find it. Thought I'd mailed it. Okay. It, it's because, but we cannot defend that if your HOA, whoever's in charge, the board, is rigged where you're not able to vote, where you are constantly being fined, and when the voting t- time comes, you can't vote because you have X number of fines, okay? [0:44:45] And those fines add up. So that becomes a problem. And a lot of these individuals that are participating in this predatory kind of business, they are preying on elderly folks. [0:45:05] Mm-hmm. [0:45:05] Okay? That cannot, that already own these homes. [0:45:09] Mm-hmm. [0:45:10] But they want them, depending on where they're located, the location of the, you know, good location. [0:45:16] Mm-hmm. [0:45:16] You know, a piece of property and whoa, I can rent it out for whatever, and here in Atlanta, don't live here, but I own here, it has to... If you don't think about how this will impact your city all over, then you're in trouble. [0:45:36] Mm-hmm. [0:45:36] You can start, it could begin here and just spread all over the city, and you end up with a what? A cesspool. That's what you end up with. And we've gone to City Hall, we've gone to council, we've gone to people all over the s- the city, and it's as if it's falling on deaf ears. Nobody wants to listen. But, um, and even in the, where I'm owned, you say the, the assessments for water and the, well, we have to pay for water, but the waters don't have any meters on them. [0:46:12] So how do you... And I'm not there except three months out of the year, so how do I know how much water I'm using versus somebody else? I'm getting charged the same thing, same amount of, of pay, of, of, of HOA fee. It is robbery, it's bribery- [0:46:33] It is all of that. And the majority of the owners that are coming in are, they're not here. [0:46:39] Mm-hmm. [0:46:40] They're not even in the United States. [0:46:42] Hmm. [0:46:44] So are we going to allow our citizens to be taken advantage of, and we can't get any help? The only way we can get us some help is through legislation. That's the only way we're gonna get some help. [0:46:58] I would just say a lot of those are separate issues, and I completely support, you mentioned arbitrary fines. I think any, pretty much by and large, the vast majority of people, and even the rational property management and the law firms that represent HOAs, will have to concede that the fine issue is completely unfair, and it's predatory. But I still go back to the fact of, um, the condo situation. Once again, and I, I wanna address the water situation, 'cause I'm dealing with that right now, 'cause I actually do have the answers to that. [0:47:31] Um, what is to prevent... My question back to you or, or anyone who has that position is, what is to prevent a local municipality from condemning a condo where someone is paying their dues, and they still lose their home because the condominium cannot pay their water bill, or the trash bill? Because those offenses of the trash building up and the water being unpaid would lead to condemnation. It's being done in Atlanta right now, and I can tell you, if a condo loses their, that particular right, um, to foreclose... [0:48:03] And I'm not saying foreclose to fines, specifically towards assessments. What I'm advocating for is specifically exempting condos from the foreclosure aspect as it relates to assessments that are tied to that water bill. And just quickly to wrap up, you mentioned the water situation. So if you're a condo, you have generally three water situations. Generally three. One, you have a master meter where everyone pays, you, they split it equally. [0:48:29] Oh, yeah. [0:48:30] Or you have a sub-meter company, and th- this is where a lot of people get confused. You can sub-meter it out, but it's still one master bill. And if those people aren't... You have a subbing, and if, you know, a good portion of the condo aren't paying their share of the water, it, that leads to a shortfall, meaning the c- entire condominium falls behind on their water bill, and ultimately the water provider can shut it off. And if there's no water in that entire facility, that will lead to condemnation. And then one, the last and third thing, and I'm working on my condo pushing for this, is hooking up, having every condo, this is not possible in, uh, high-rises. [0:49:07] We're a low-rise condo. Having Atlanta Watershed connect piping to each individual, um, um, unit. This way, y- if you pay your bill, you don't have to worry about your water getting shut off because you're paying your bill, you're, you're paying your water bill, but every other tenant is not, and that leads to a shutoff for you even if you're paying your bill. [0:49:28] Mr. Chairman. [0:49:28] So by going with the local municipality- [0:49:30] But- [0:49:30] ... everyone is responsible for their own water [0:49:31] ... excuse me, Chair. [0:49:32] So, yeah. [0:49:32] Madam Chair, may I s- say something? [0:49:33] Yeah. [0:49:34] If you have lived in, and, and own- [0:49:38] Yeah [0:49:38] ... your property, and you've lived there for years, which is, most of the folks at one time did. [0:49:43] Yes, yes, yes. [0:49:44] And they did, followed all the rules. Every, every one of them. They did everything they were supposed to do. It's a very nice, uh, home, um, facility. Then suddenly somebody decided that, "Yeah, we can come in, and we can scoop this property up, and use it for something else." That is greed, to get money, to make money. We don't care what it looks like, and we can take the, the HOA fees that they are paying- [0:50:14] Mm-hmm [0:50:14] ... and redesign portions of it, the portion that we're gonna rent out as, as a B- Airbnb or something else, but the other part is gonna look like a dump, then that's, that's, that's not right. But what we need to do is, Madam Chair, is probably move on, 'cause this is gonna be a long one. [0:50:33] Okay. [0:50:33] Yeah, no, no. All right. [0:50:34] But what I would, what I would like to, to say, we have a very good HOA bill that we're gonna move forward. Am I right, Madam Chair? [0:50:43] Is it... What's... Is that 406? Which one are we- [0:50:47] 4664. And it's because right now, the State of Georgia has nothing in place. [0:50:52] Correct. [0:50:52] Well, can you answer that question then? [0:50:54] That's Senator- [0:50:54] With all due respect, can you answer that question? [0:50:55] Let me, let me, let, can I get a minute, Michael? [0:50:57] Uh, can I get a minute? [0:50:58] Oh, yes. [0:50:59] Yeah, yeah. [0:50:59] Of course. [0:50:59] Y'all, let me have one... That's fine. Okay. The, well, let me say the first thing is, thank you, Mr. Shepherd, but- [0:51:07] Yeah [0:51:11] ... um, we only are gonna use no foreclosure as far as, uh... It does not mean that, that you can't have those liens still. [0:51:20] Mm-hmm. [0:51:21] But on any liens, uh, that would take their property away from them without them having some way to, uh, arbitration somehow. So- [0:51:35] I, I understand that [0:51:35] ... so when- [0:51:36] Yeah [0:51:36] ... we're, we're not, uh, saying that the property own- or well, they're the property owner. So we, we've looked at those. B- uh, Senator Brass put both of these bills in, and his, his whole objective, he told me, was to, uh, prohibit, uh, all of the HOAs, POAs, and COAs to not be able to use tho- any liens- [0:52:05] Mm-hmm [0:52:05] ... on a foreclosure of their property, to have individual, um, I guess each case is individual. [0:52:18] Yeah. Yeah. [0:52:19] And, uh, they would have, that, so they could not foreclose on them. They would have to go before this k- And there, and, and we've done some... We're not gonna have an ombudsman. [0:52:30] Mm-hmm. [0:52:30] But we have, the Secretary of State has an office for nonprofits. [0:52:36] Mm-hmm. [0:52:36] So we worked it out to put- Uh, HOA and COAs and all that under one department, so you don't have to keep going getting private lawyers- [0:52:46] Mm-hmm [0:52:46] ... and all. [0:52:47] And that's good [0:52:47] You can resolve it. [0:52:48] That's great, actually. [0:52:49] You can resolve it. So those are the, um, I, I think that the things that you talked about, we talked about over and over, but- [0:52:57] But no one, it doesn't sound like anyone thought about that. It, I'll just leave it with this- [0:52:59] We thought about it, but we didn't- [0:53:01] Well, no. No, the condo aspect [0:53:02] ... we didn't address it [0:53:02] How would they pay their water bill and their trash bill without being condemned? I feel that's a death sentence to condos- [0:53:09] Well- [0:53:09] ... especially urban condos, if they cannot recover [0:53:13] Condemnation [0:53:14] No, not you all, but I'm saying a local municipality, if, so if, if they can't execute to recover in a meaningful fashion, specifically condos, 'cause I support it for single family town home. [0:53:24] Mm-hmm. [0:53:24] But for specifically condos, if you're saying, hey, you're making it challenging for them to collect, to pay their water bill and trash bill, then the water goes unpaid, the trash is not picked up. That will lead to condemnation at the municipal level and at the county level. That's what I am saying. Because no one can answer me about how will they pay their bill, how, are you having your water- [0:53:49] Do you have any suggestions- [0:53:49] ... will not be shut off [0:53:50] ... instead of, you know, pointing it out? Do you have any suggestions on what we need to do? [0:53:55] I would recommend- [0:53:56] Okay. Well, send it to me [0:53:56] ... an exemption specifically to the condo foreclosure, specifically with assessments. That, you see, what she kept reverting back, um, Senator Freddie reverted to fines and assess- fi- fines being abused- [0:54:09] And they have been [0:54:10] ... and that's true. That, you should not be allowed to foreclose on a fine. I've seen the legislation regarding, you know, um, not being able to take away your right to vote on fines and assessments, completely support that. But with condos, if they cannot recover the money in a meaningful fashion, the, the water, the trash is going to affect- [0:54:28] Lower it [0:54:29] ... every single tenant in that community, and if that actually goes through, I can almost assure you that condos in Georgia, especially on the lower end, it's pretty much a death sentence to them. [0:54:40] Okay. Before- [0:54:41] So that's it [0:54:41] ... we go, next. [0:54:43] Senator Merritt. [0:54:44] Senator Merritt- [0:54:45] Yep [0:54:45] ... and then we'll hear what you want. [0:54:46] Okay, that's fine. I had a quick question, um, circling back on election fraud. What does that look like when, with associations? Is it they're not posting properly that they're having an election, and then they have a bunch of people show up and it just goes through? Like, what does that- [0:55:02] I'm- [0:55:02] What is that? [0:55:03] I mean, for me, personally, if I were to think about that, I think maybe there needs to be, a lot of times they use a, um, the- They were talking about ... second party, I just want to say- If this one is- ... or the HOA management company to manage that. A lot of times they do not disclose the actual voting, um, result. [0:55:23] The, okay. [0:55:24] The result- results are not turned over to the, to the- [0:55:27] No transparency in the results [0:55:28] ... no transparency. So that's what I've, I've seen- [0:55:31] Okay [0:55:31] ... personally, um, and I've heard a lot about that. And a lot of times when residents do try to reach out to these management companies or to the board, if they're corrupt, they're not actually sharing that information. Um, so that's the only, you know, part of having regards to that. [0:55:47] So are we addressing that the management company shouldn't be a part- [0:55:50] No, I, I- [0:55:51] I don't know if we ever had that in a bill. [0:55:52] Yeah, that's what I thought. [0:55:53] Should they not even oversee elections, first of all? [0:55:54] I mean, that's, that's, that's a whole nother- [0:55:57] Okay [0:55:57] ... we have to really think about that, right? But I think I, I just wanna applaud you guys. I mean, it's been years, and we're working, and I feel like there has been some movement, and I see this bill, this 406. Um- Yes ... yes, and I'm, and I'm happy, and I'm h- I'm hoping that we get some impact through this. Um- Yeah [0:56:14] Actually, the bill- [0:56:15] You know, I, I do agree with, uh, Sims. I do agree that there is, you know, foreclosure has been used, unfortunately, in the wrong way. And, um, I, I, I, I applaud you, Michael, regarding your water situation, and I hope that we can get a bill or some other kind of impactful movement in regard to that, specific for that. 'Cause I think that's something that should be addressed, since I, since you're- [0:56:38] Yeah [0:56:38] ... bringing that to attention. [0:56:39] And, and I welcome- [0:56:40] Yeah [0:56:40] ... you bringing that, even though- [0:56:42] Mm-hmm [0:56:42] Yeah [0:56:42] ... it's the 11th hour. [0:56:44] Yeah, exactly. [0:56:44] Bring me something- [0:56:46] Yeah [0:56:46] ... and then we'll talk about it. [0:56:48] For sure. [0:56:48] And we have a committee that came out of all these hearings. [0:56:51] Mm-hmm. [0:56:52] That have been, uh, on a Zoom call every week, once a week. [0:56:57] Mm. [0:56:58] So we'll present that to them, because they haven't given me their final report. [0:57:03] So- [0:57:03] So we'll do that. But, uh, Senator Sims, do you wanna, uh, wrap it up with him? 'Cause y- we were- [0:57:09] Yeah, I just wanna, I just wanted to say I agree with, um, Sims. Um, you know, I'm just gonna read a little list here. I wrote a little list of eight things to compel us to get foreclosures off. I think homeowner is a fundamental component of the economic stability and community development of family to secure, you know, s- for families to be secure in Georgia. Foreclosure is the most severe legal remedy available, traditionally reserved significantly for financial defaults under mortgage and tax obligations, and they should not be exercised by private, non-governmental community associations. [0:57:45] Okay? Many Georgia homeowners enter HOA, POA, and condominiums without the full understanding of the scope of powers assumed by the associations, including the power of foreclosure for relatively small unpaid assessment or fines. [0:58:00] Mm-hmm. [0:58:01] And we, we've heard this. We've heard this all before. So I'm just kind of just repeating, you know, my, what I've heard and what I've experienced. Um, I feel that, you know, the evidence of the associations' initiated foreclosures have resulted in loss of home own- homes over a disproportionately small debt. Unfair. [0:58:26] Oh, very unfair. [0:58:27] Unfair. [0:58:27] But this bill- [0:58:28] Yes [0:58:28] ... extends it from 2,000 to 4,000. [0:58:32] Mm-hmm. Which I don't think is enough, unfortunately. [0:58:34] I don't think is enough either, but that's- [0:58:35] I think, I think it should be removed completely off the table. I, I f- I feel that way [0:58:40] So, that's Senator Brass's bill, and I can't change it- [0:58:43] So what do we- [0:58:44] ... but I discussed the bill [0:58:44] ... do we, do we know about the House bill? Can our, the House bill that's coming through, are we supporting that? [0:58:49] We have, we have so many house bills. [0:58:52] Yeah, I, I saw that one. [0:58:53] H- [0:58:53] And they wanna- [0:58:53] ... B62, uh, HB190, HB389, that's just some of them. [0:59:01] So I- [0:59:01] 1036, 1035. [0:59:03] Yeah. [0:59:03] Yeah, and 512 and 664. [0:59:06] Yeah. [0:59:06] So- [0:59:06] But, uh, uh, have you finished? You said eight- [0:59:09] Yeah, I mean, basically, for all these reasons, I find it very necessary to abolish the authority of any association to foreclose on property within the State of Georgia. [0:59:20] Mm-hmm. [0:59:20] Okay? That's my personal- [0:59:21] Mm-hmm [0:59:22] ... assessment after listening to all this. [0:59:23] Okay. [0:59:24] You know, a, a homeowner, that's, that's, that's the American dream, and that's what we work for day in. We, you know, we want sanctity when we go home. One, we want peace. And, um, [0:59:38] we've seen this, what it has led to in the State of Georgia. So I think we should be a pioneer. [0:59:42] Put your name for the record. [0:59:43] I think we... Yeah, I th- um, I think we should be a pioneer. [0:59:46] Mm-hmm. [0:59:46] We should be the first in the United States to have a bill that excludes and re- and removes foreclosure off the table for homeowners. We have, homeowners are being a- attacked in many different ways, right? Our ta- property taxes go up. You know, we, we know what's going on in the United States of America. We've, we see, so this is just something that needs to be protected. Um, and I applaud you guys for working and, and, um, getting this bill, and I'm very happy. I was, I was very happy when I saw what came out on the 12th. I was like, "Okay, we're rocking and rolling. [1:00:17] We got some, we got some movement here." [1:00:19] That's right. [1:00:20] So, um, I'm here to help in any way that I can to get this to pass, and so we have some impact for the state. Do you know- [1:00:28] Well, thank you. [1:00:29] You're welcome. Do you know if the Senate Bill 108, is that, is that, like, are we, is that one done? [1:00:34] We, it's, it's o- [1:00:36] Yeah [1:00:36] ... they have not listened to it yet. [1:00:37] Okay, okay. [1:00:38] It's still alive. [1:00:39] 'Cause I do still recommend the date on there, if we, if that date could be changed. [1:00:44] Yes. [1:00:44] Because it, it re- [1:00:45] It's already- [1:00:45] Yeah, because, I mean, I looked at it and I was like, medical people, you know, if it's 2025, you know, or y- people, people have been living in their house inside those contracts before 2025, before they have medical issues. [1:00:58] Mm-hmm. [1:00:59] So, but I just, I just wanted to applaud and- [1:01:01] We have one, one other senator- [1:01:02] Um [1:01:02] ... who wants to ha- [1:01:04] Yeah [1:01:04] ... ask a question. [1:01:05] Thank you for your, uh, information. [1:01:07] Yeah. [1:01:07] As a matter of fact, I have a bill written, you know, haven't dropped it yet, that will move from 2025, but, you know, that's, that's what I want. [1:01:15] Yeah, I think- [1:01:15] There are several- [1:01:16] Yeah [1:01:16] ... you know, separate bills. So, um, haven't dropped it yet. I'm, I'm, I'm looking at it. I didn't have time to, uh, talk to the chairman because I was doing some other stuff. [1:01:25] Yeah, that would be- [1:01:26] So I'm gonna drop something to increase that number. You know, 2000 is just really, uh, it's crazy. [1:01:29] I mean, it would be great. [1:01:30] Yeah. [1:01:30] Because most people living in their house- [1:01:32] Yeah [1:01:32] ... got their house before 2025. [1:01:34] Yeah. [1:01:34] And like you said, the elderly or people who have me- anybody can experience medical- [1:01:38] Mm-hmm [1:01:38] ... you know, issues. And, uh, we know we're all one paycheck away from being homeless. Let's just be real. That's the statistics. So, um, we need to support our fellow Americans, support our citizens, and I applaud you for pushing this bill and working on it. [1:01:54] Thank you. [1:01:54] And I'm here to support. And my name is Christina Potts. [1:01:58] Okay. [1:01:58] Yeah. [1:01:58] And thank you, Ms. Potts. [1:01:59] You're welcome. [1:02:00] And before we, we're gonna hear from, uh, Senator Kemp. You wanted to... [1:02:07] Yeah. Um, I do have a bill that I sponsored, uh, focused on HOAs. Uh, and this is, uh, most important p- portion of this is to require training. [1:02:18] Mm-hmm. [1:02:19] Um, that if you're gonna serve on a HOA, you have to go through, uh, a training in order to serve, because so many folks get on these boards and don't know what they're doing and don't know the limitations to what they can do, or to the conversation today, the impact that their, uh, decisions have on people, um, attaining and retaining, um, their American dream. Uh, and that's, uh, owning their own homes. And so that is Senate Bill 393. [1:02:50] Yes. [1:02:50] The HOA Accountability- [1:02:51] Look at that bill [1:02:52] ... and Training Act. Um, so we are going to try to get that a hearing. Um, actually going to be requested that that is moved from public safety, 'cause there was a portion in there, uh, that addressed, uh, HOAs fining folks, uh, for things that the local law enforcement agencies can do, and so that was, um, given to public safety. But now I'm not gonna focus on that portion, I just wanna focus on the training portion, so gonna try to get that bill moved. So that, but that is, uh, Senate Bill 393. [1:03:22] And the thing is, the person who is the chairperson is on this committee, but he never has come. [1:03:31] Did they take him off? [1:03:32] Did they take him off? No, his name is still on here. [1:03:33] Oh, is that so? [1:03:34] He hadn't been co- He came one, one day for, like, five minutes. So he's been too busy for us, I guess. So we're gonna have your quick comment, and then we'll wrap it up, because we have to be out of here. He was just reminding me. [1:03:50] Mm-hmm. [1:03:51] Okay. Everybody has another meeting. [1:03:54] Yeah, we got, yeah. [1:03:54] But we only had this room for one hour. [1:03:58] Another 10 minutes. [1:03:59] Another 10 minutes. Go ahead. [1:03:59] All right. I'm, I won't take 10 minutes. Senator Kemp, I'd like to thank you for your education bill. I have three board members, well, we currently only have one true board member, 'cause I'm gonna get to your election fraud in just a moment, who, uh, needs very- [1:04:14] Excuse me? [1:04:14] They all need to be educated. [1:04:15] Okay. [1:04:15] Because I can show them what the law says, and they'll tell me, "That's not what the law says." I can show them what it looks like in the declaration and what we're supposed to do, and they'll tell me, "Well, we don't have to do that." [1:04:27] Mm-hmm. [1:04:27] Because they think no one will fight them. So I have filed a lawsuit on behalf of my community. [1:04:33] Mm-hmm. [1:04:33] I filed it in May. We got a TRO because our board turned our water off. [1:04:37] Mm-hmm. [1:04:37] And the law states that you cannot turn the water off until you get a judgment of $750. [1:04:41] Oh, my goodness. Oh. [1:04:43] But at Waldrop Park in Decatur, our board members turned our water off, and some people didn't have water for three weeks until we filed the lawsuit, we got a TRO, and they turned the water back on, as they said they would do, boldfacedly, in a meeting we had in September, where they s- where our board president told us, "Well, if you complain, then we'll just turn your water back on, but you know it's against the law, so why would you do it?" They need education because they're gonna get themselves in trouble 'cause I'm gonna file another lawsuit. [1:05:13] Thank you. [1:05:13] Election fla- fraud. We currently- [1:05:15] Your name for the record. [1:05:17] I'm sorry? [1:05:17] We need your name for the- [1:05:18] Oh, Caroline Simmons. [1:05:20] Okay. [1:05:21] I have served every position on my board, and I've managed my board twice. I have a real estate license. I no longer break the law. I've grown up. So I try to stick, and I tell people in my community, I sent a long email to my community last night. We have a meeting on Saturday, which should be our annual meeting, but we received notice, our declaration says 21 days in advance. This year we received it 20 days in advance. Last year we received it 16 days in advance. This year's notice is dated January 10th, 2026, for a meeting that is going to be held on January 31st, 2025. [1:05:59] So that meeting is not valid. We have one board member, because he has, again, thrown someone off of the board. He manufactured a delinquency to remove me from the board. He manufactured that I did not attend board meetings. He did the same thing to another young lady. He has a pattern. None of us know how many units are eligible to vote. The notice that we received clearly stated everyone's going to get a ballot, and then we'll figure out at the end who's eligible to vote. We did receive a notice today that 31 units is what is needed for quorum, but not how many units are eligible to vote. [1:06:35] Good thing is I can do math. It is 93 units that are eligible. But he will change it, as he has done before. We had a vote, um, on an amendment to remove the residency requirement from our declaration. The vote started on November 20th. It ended in f- on February the 28th, and then the board president sent out a notice to a small group of owners that is on a GroupMe with him to clearly tell them, "I'm holding off on announcing the vote because I'm allowing people to bring their accounts current so that they can vote," because he didn't get the votes he wanted, and he made promises. [1:07:14] So now my, my community is in disarray. That's our election fraud. We don't know what's gonna happen on Saturday. [1:07:22] Yes. [1:07:22] But I do know that I'm going to have to file a lawsuit in order to figure all of this out, and I'm gonna have to do it pro se because there are very few attorneys that are willing to take our case. We did have one attorney, but because things didn't progress, my neighbors stopped paying. So I am now on the hook for a bill of over $6,000 because my name is on that contract. So I've got to pay that. And I plan to pay it, but I'm gonna file this other lawsuit first, and if I can get these board members to pay us back all of this money because they installed water meters for us that we didn't need to the tune of $367,080. [1:07:56] We didn't need them, but we have a water bill, Senator Powell Sims, I'm going around the table. Um, we have a water bill- [1:08:05] We live in the same place. [1:08:06] Almost. [1:08:07] It's- [1:08:07] Almost. We have a water bill of $668,000 that started, it, it goes to DeKalb County. It started in 2017. I understand your point about people shouldn't lose their homes, but I shouldn't lose mine either. The problem is that if my neighbors don't pay their water bills and the condominium association cannot foreclose on those units, we have no way of recouping that money. In my case, my unit is held in a trust. [1:08:38] The trust has no bank account. The only asset that the trust has that can get that money is the unit itself. So if we aren't able to foreclose and we have multiple LLCs in our community that don't have bank accounts, that do not have money, where does the association get that money from, as Michael stated, to not be condemned? I p- I'm, well, I'm not right now 'cause I'm fighting with them, but in the past I've always paid my dues just as you have. If my neighbors choose not to pay their water bills, we can't pay the water. [1:09:11] I mean, not that, well we do. We have separate meters also. But if they choose not to pay their assessments and they choose not to pay their water bill, how do we pay our bills? How do we pay insurance? If we're not in a position to be able to pay the insurance and a building burns down and God forbid someone dies in that building and we don't have insurance- [1:09:31] Yes [1:09:31] ... all 228 units become responsible for that. The only way for a condo to recoup that money is to be able to foreclose on that unit if we are not able to garnish people's bank accounts or their paychecks. In my case, my unit is in a trust. [1:09:48] Yes. [1:09:48] My trust has no bank account. My, I pay all of the bills, but the way Georgia law is written I believe, the trust is a separate entity to itself and you cannot come and get my money in order to pay off the trust debt. So now we have a problem. [1:10:02] The individuals- [1:10:03] Yeah. [1:10:03] And I was gonna say one other thing. [1:10:05] Can you wrap it up at this point, Kay? [1:10:07] The individuals that, uh, prey on the, the laws that are not there, they know that. [1:10:12] Right. [1:10:12] They absolutely know that. [1:10:14] Yep. [1:10:15] It wasn't because the association w- the dues were not being paid. It's because there was somebody that came along and decided we want this property. [1:10:24] But that's not what we're discussing. [1:10:26] Yeah, but it- [1:10:26] We're discussing what ends up happening [1:10:28] ... it ties in a lot with it. [1:10:30] And I completely understand that and I'm all for that. [1:10:33] Those individuals took the assessment. [1:10:35] Mm-hmm. [1:10:35] They absolutely stole, it's like a cartel. They stole from us. They took from us. And, and now you wanna take the property? You, they have over-assessed those individuals that live there. We have gotten lawyers. Doesn't work because those individuals will tell you, "But what, what are you gonna do to me?" There's nothing written in the law [1:11:00] To protect us, and, and they know that. So they just kinda do what they wanna do. [1:11:06] The problem is- [1:11:07] Mm-hmm [1:11:07] ... if my neighbors do not pay and I pay- [1:11:10] I hear what you're saying [1:11:10] ... and we can't pay our water bill- [1:11:11] I hear what you're saying [1:11:12] ... but the que- but you're not answering the question. [1:11:14] O- [1:11:14] That's my, my question, is w- how does the HOA, the, in a condominium association, how do they recoup those funds- [1:11:23] So you- [1:11:23] ... if they're n- [1:11:23] You're saying- [1:11:24] Mm-hmm [1:11:24] ... you don't want condominiums, you want them excused from this, this, uh, this HOA [1:11:30] I want them ex- I want them slightly exempt, the reason being I don't want people to lose their homes because of fines, but if you don't pay your assessment and I lose my home, what's the point of this law? [1:11:43] I, I hear you, but what you're saying is not the situation in every association. [1:11:50] It's, and it's not. It, I'm only addressing it to condominiums, because for the most part- [1:11:55] No, no, no. In every condominium association, it's not like that either, 'cause we don't even have water meters, but we were- [1:12:02] Right [1:12:02] ... being charged. [1:12:03] But if your, if, in your- [1:12:04] But we were being charged for water [1:12:06] ... in your community, if your owners do not pay and your community cannot pay your water bill, and the county turns your water off, you will become- [1:12:16] That's a whole different situation [1:12:16] ... and, but that's the situation I'm addressing. [1:12:18] But what you're saying, we're gonna excuse condominiums period. [1:12:21] I'm saying find a way for condominiums to survive. Right now, the way you're addressing it, it's as though, "Well, if they don't survive, they don't survive." That's the way it comes across. I know you don't mean it that way, but that's the way it comes across. [1:12:37] Mm. [1:12:37] If the condominiums don't survive, they don't survive. [1:12:40] Mm. [1:12:40] But I need some place to live. [1:12:42] Okay. [1:12:42] And I bought a condominium. [1:12:45] I hear you. [1:12:45] I shouldn't suffer because there is a bill that does not allow my community to thrive. [1:12:51] But we should not- [1:12:51] And that's the situation that I'm in [1:12:53] ... suffer because there are individuals living in other places and spaces, very comfortable, taking our monies and just... We don't even- [1:13:03] Are those the- [1:13:03] We don't even get bank accounts. [1:13:05] Are those the, but those are the management companies. [1:13:07] That's who, uh-uh, mm-mm. [1:13:08] Or is it the board members? [1:13:10] No, no. [1:13:10] It's, it's- [1:13:10] Those are the board members- [1:13:11] Yeah [1:13:11] ... along with the board lawyers. [1:13:14] That doesn't mean that. That's the issues, you know. [1:13:16] Yeah. [1:13:16] Yeah. [1:13:16] It, it's a- [1:13:17] I mean, I, I know, I mean- [1:13:18] Ann, now, we have to- [1:13:19] Yeah [1:13:20] ... uh, Ann, now. [1:13:20] I, I think there- [1:13:21] But- [1:13:21] I personally, the last, I'm just gonna... I do think there needs to be another legislation, right? This c- this condominium could be addressed separately, the water, the condominium, the electricity for the condominiums. [1:13:36] Okay, I agree. [1:13:36] I appreciate it. I, yeah, yeah, I think- [1:13:38] Go ahead [1:13:38] ... separate legislation. [1:13:40] I, this is a complex issue. [1:13:41] Yeah, yeah. [1:13:42] So my approach is we need to address this in a se- you know- [1:13:45] Separate [1:13:45] ... a small. You can't really do big bill. Sometimes you might have to take individual issues- [1:13:50] 'Cause I like my little condo [1:13:51] ... because it's, it's so different. So that, you know. [1:13:52] The good thing is- [1:13:53] And I won't lose it [1:13:53] ... if this passes, you won't lose it. They'll never foreclose on you, even if you have a trust. But you set up a trust, so you- [1:13:59] I'll- [1:13:59] So you don't lose it. Yeah, yeah. [1:14:00] But I'll, but I'll, I'll lose it from con- condominiums. [1:14:02] Well, let's, let's hope not. I mean, that's a, the, the city, the- [1:14:06] I'm so sorry [1:14:07] ... 'cause we're gonna work on a bill to fix that. [1:14:09] We might have to adjourn- [1:14:09] We'll work on a bill to fix that [1:14:10] ... because we don't have this room anymore. What are you talking about, Elena? [1:14:13] I don't think you... [1:14:14] Okay. Thank you. [1:14:15] No, we gotta, we gotta work it out. [1:14:16] We, we will, uh, we have to come back, uh, next week. [1:14:21] It's a complex process. [1:14:22] We have to adjourn ag- I mean, we have to start again next week to listen to the legislation that was put, uh, well, it wasn't put on hold, but that we have to address next week, and I think we have another bill too. But think about all these things. You know, we did talk about some of them, but nobody gave me this in black and white. You come today, somebody called me right before this meeting and said, "I don't like any of your bills." I said, "Well, what do you suggest?" "Oh, fix it." [1:14:54] Okay. [1:14:55] "Well, what do you suggest?" So I'm, I, I have, I have, uh, tried to give all the time and energy to this issue so that I can say, I don't even live in a HOA. I have a house and it's paid for. I don't, thank God, don't live in a HOA. Um, so it's not, uh, personal, but then all my f- uh, neighbors and constituents that do have this problem are the ones that I'm trying to work with. We have to leave only because during the session, they give you time limits, and our time limit has ex- [1:15:33] No. [1:15:33] Can you give me what you [1:16:12] ta- talking about in writing? I don't think I had yours in writing. [1:16:18] I want to say the meeting is adjourned. No. [1:16:21] Okay. Wait, wait, wait. [1:16:21] Need a motion. [1:16:23] I need a, um, I guess we don't [1:16:28] need a motion to adjourn. This meeting is adjourned at whatever time it is. 3:02. [1:16:34] 3:02. [1:16:35] Thank-