Georgia CommonsSenate Health and Human Services Committee
Senate Health and Human Services Committee, February 2, 2026
2025-2026 Regular Session · 450 CAP · 36 min
This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays.
The video is the General Assembly's, played from its Vimeo channel. Select any time below to play that moment. Watch on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel · Agenda
Summary
Written by an AI model (gpt-6.1-sol) from the transcript. It is not part of the record, and the video is what was said.
The committee considered SB 411, which addresses who may perform dry needling, training requirements and advertising restrictions. The sponsor presented a substitute and answered questions about the difference between dry needling and acupuncture and whether patients could still bring malpractice claims. No witnesses signed up to speak. The committee approved the substitute by voice vote, which the chair described as unanimous.
Bills discussed (1)
Each account covers the stretch of the meeting it names. The bill's number is said in that stretch, unless it was the only bill on a committee's agenda.
SB 411. Professions and Businesses; dry needling to be performed by certain licensed professionals; provide
From 0:18:30 · turns 4 to 70
The sponsor said the bill defines dry needling and limits it to properly licensed and trained acupuncturists, occupational therapists and physical therapists. The sponsor said it prevents therapists performing dry needling from advertising themselves as acupuncturists, addressing a request from acupuncture practitioners. The sponsor said occupational therapists would need at least 50 hours of training, matching physical therapists, and the bill removes an additional year of postgraduate experience required for acupuncturists, which the sponsor described as a barrier to entry. The sponsor explained that the substitute prevents a violation from creating a separate basis for a lawsuit while preserving other legal remedies. Asked how patients could seek relief, the sponsor said malpractice claims would remain available, including for injuries caused by improperly inserted needles. Another member confirmed that explanation. Asked how the practices differ, the sponsor described dry needling as brief needle insertion to stimulate muscles, while traditional Chinese acupuncture involves needles placed at selected points and left in place. Members praised the agreement among practitioners, and one member reported personal relief from acupuncture. No opposition was voiced. The committee approved the substitute by voice vote, which the chair described as unanimous.
Transcript
81 turns. Select a time to play that moment of the video.
- 0:17:15
Senate Health and Human Services Committee to order. Uh, and if Senator Halborn would open us up in prayer, we'd appreciate that. Mic number three.
- 0:17:24
If y'all would bow your heads in prayer with me. Dear Lord, thank you for another day to do your work and to glorify your name. I pray that we are able to use discernment as we consider what is ahead, uh, in front of us. I pray that we are able to have grace and mercy. And remember that you have loved us despite our own faults, so that we can do the good work for the people here. In all these things I pray in your name, amen.
- 0:17:55
This is a 2:00 meeting that is taking place at 3:30, uh, due to the floor session that was longer than, uh-
- 0:18:03
Anticipated
- 0:18:04
... anticipated. Maybe not, maybe not anticipated, but it was longer, let me put it that way. Uh, so we have one bill today, and I promised, uh, Jack, who is watching online, that this would not take longer than 30 minutes. And Senator Still, who has the bill, assured me of that. And, uh, the committee, uh, has it in their folder. We're doing Senate Bill 411, and this has to do with dry needling, which has been, uh, which passed probably 10 years ago, and this is being, uh, addressed again.
- 0:18:42
And I understand, uh, all, uh, maybe most, maybe all parties have come together, uh, in agreement, uh, multiple different communities. And Senator Still has the floor. Why don't you tell us about your bill, and we're on, uh, make sure we're correct. LC 520991S. All righty, the floor is yours.
- 0:19:06
Chairman, thank you. And committee members, thank you for gathering. Uh, I feel pretty honored that, uh, I've got so many esteemed legislators sitting around the table to hear a bill that is, uh, pretty small in nature, but incredibly important to, um, a, uh, a number of great people in the medical community. Um, you may remember, uh, from Senator Cowsert's Regulated Industries last year, uh, dry needling became a pretty hot topic, and, uh, this is the result of that.
- 0:19:40
And what we came to realize through last year's bill is that we can't single out individual medical practices on, um, the art of dry needling, and that we needed to dif- differentiate between acupuncture and dry needling, and that there were a number of other practices beyond traditional Chinese medicine that were doing acupuncture, and, uh, that in the form that it was being used is called dry needling. So what the bill does is it first and foremost, um, you know, it, it defines what that is.
- 0:20:14
And traditional Chinese medicine acupuncture is really focused on qi points, putting in, inserting needles, leaving needles in to perform, uh, different levels of therapies. When physical therapists or occupational therapists do it, it's usually just to insert the needle, remove it, s- to be able to stimulate and reactivate a muscle. And that's the, the most common use of it. Um, but in order to bring this all together, we engaged our friends at the Georgia Medical Licensing Board, who helped us with the definition.
- 0:20:51
Um, at the request of all these different groups and multiple meetings, we even, uh, had hearings here at the Capitol in the off-season to bring everyone together, give testimony, and talk about it. And one of the major requests from the acupuncture industry was that we have truth in advertising, that physical therapists and occupational therapists, if they're doing dry needling, that they don't advertise themselves as acupuncturists. So that, that has been made clear, and that's in Section 1 of the bill.
- 0:21:22
Uh, Section 1 goes through all of that, and then, um, the reason that this is a substitute is for lines 38 through 40, um, that "a violation of this code does not constitute a private cause of action, provided, however, that nothing in this code section shall be construed to limit or preclude any other available remedy at law or equity." And that came, uh, from our friends in the legal community to make sure that, uh, that had been considered. Um, this limits it, uh, as you'll see in lines 22 through 25.
- 0:21:56
"No person shall perform unless they've been duly licensed as an acupuncturist, occupational therapist, or physical therapist and completed the education and training, uh, as prescribed." Uh, Section 2 just adds the line, um, "and dry needling for specific therapeutic effect." Section 3 says that, uh, no OT shall do it unless they've had a minimum of 50 hours. And the reason we added that is to make sure that occupational therapists and physical therapists have the same minimum standard of training, that they don't have different levels of training.
- 0:22:36
Section 4, the language that's struck there, um, was at the request of the acupuncture industry, the med- medical licensing board was in concurrence with this, is that after all of their years of training, uh, that they don't need to do an additional one year of post-graduate experience, and this sort of lends to a little bit of a red tape rollback. It is really just perceived, and, and accurately so, as just being a barrier to entry, and so this allows more people to enter that field with the proper amount of education and training. And, uh, that's, uh, pretty much the extent of it.
- 0:23:07
Happy to answer any questions if anybody has any.
- 0:23:10
Thank you. Uh, and we did not have anybody sign up, so our expert here is the author. And, uh, and we do have a question there, uh, number 10. Senator Hodges. Thank you. Thanks for bringing the bill. Um, the language that you mentioned on, um, line 38, 39, and 40, I'm not a lawyer, so a violation of the code shall not constitute a private cause of action, but nothing in the code section about shall be construed to limit or preclude any other available remedy at law.
- 0:23:49
Private cause of action meaning a lawsuit?
- 0:23:52
Correct. So if-
- 0:23:53
So how do you access the other remedies without-
- 0:23:58
Medical malpractice. W- so for example, if, if, for example, uh, and, and this has happened-
- 0:24:04
Yeah
- 0:24:04
... not in Georgia, but in another state, um, a... I- in this happened actually a couple of times, where a, a needle is inserted too far-
- 0:24:14
Mm-hmm
- 0:24:15
... it can touch the lung. And if you go through the lung field, uh, and, and it's, it's called a, a pneumothorax where you've-
- 0:24:24
Mm-hmm
- 0:24:24
... effectively poked a hole in the lung, um, that would be something that, that would constitute a private right of action. But the truth in advertising component, uh, we just wanted to make sure that that was, um, not a right of action because that would be an acupuncturist bringing suit against a, for example, an OT. But if there was something where a patient was, uh, treated improperly altogether, that that doesn't eliminate their right to do so.
- 0:24:57
Senator Hatchett, did I describe that correctly?
- 0:24:58
Can still seek remedy by malpractice. Is that what... That's, that's c- accurate, correct?
- 0:25:04
Yes.
- 0:25:06
What could you-
- 0:25:07
I skipped that day at law school, Senator.
- 0:25:09
Ssh. I didn't go to law school.
- 0:25:11
Neither did I.
- 0:25:12
You're, you're number 11. I droved my own self. Okay.
- 0:25:15
Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I just wanted to comment. I looked at trying to do this a year or two ago, and with the occupational therapist, acupuncturists, the physical therapist, and I determined that I was not up to the task in bringing them all together, so I congratulate you on being up to the task in doing this.
- 0:25:32
I guess an affirmation, uh, in some form.
- 0:25:35
Yeah.
- 0:25:36
All right. Any other... Uh, Senator Orrock is number one.
- 0:25:41
Uh, tha- thank you, Mr. Chair.
- 0:25:42
As, as usual, Senator Orrock, she doesn't go use the microphone, but you know.
- 0:25:48
That's right. I, I was a cheerleader, and we didn't use a microphone.
- 0:25:51
There we go.
- 0:25:52
Um, th- uh, I, I just wanted to add a little more history that, that, uh, predates the comments of, uh, uh, Dr. Hufstetler, and that is that, uh,
- 0:26:05
eons ago, the Medical Association, uh, had heart failure about a- a, uh, acupuncturist coming on the scene and having any l- legitimate way of, of practicing any elements of Asian, uh, medicine, and that's a long, long time ago. So I can say looking at this that we've come a very long way. Uh, uh, and I, I, I, I, I got to know many, many, many Korean practitioners, uh, of acupuncture back, uh, eons ago in, in doing the bill then, and I'm sure you've had, uh, interesting, uh, experiences with these different practitioners as, as they've hammered out a, a, uh, a way to come together.
- 0:26:50
I learned more about it than I ever thought I would ever, ever want to know.
- 0:26:54
And th- and then the other question is, uh, how many people besides me have, uh, have, uh, experienced dry needling?
- 0:27:02
Ask him. I haven't. I'm sorry. I was, I was-
- 0:27:06
Senator Orrock was asking how many members of the committee have experienced or utilized dry needling or acupuncture.
- 0:27:11
In addition to me.
- 0:27:12
Is this a HIPAA violation or something?
- 0:27:13
I-
- 0:27:13
We're all good. Been, been stabbed with an ice pick. Uh, you know, stabbed with ice, but it counts. That, that creates a-
- 0:27:21
I think, I think that that-
- 0:27:21
Yeah. I think that's, uh, so we certainly have-
- 0:27:24
That's not hard to imagine.
- 0:27:24
We have one person here. All righty. Uh, Senator Goodman has a good question. Uh, I'm just curious, what is the difference between acupuncture and dry needling?
- 0:27:35
Acu-
- 0:27:35
So dry needling would be, um, uh, that i- if you, let's just use a shoulder, for example, and that you had lost the use of it due to a traumatic injury. You got it caught in a, a blueberry picking machine and, uh, dislocated your shoulder, and you were in physical therapy and you weren't getting the muscle to respond. They may try to hit a few nerve points to try to get the muscle to wake up, if you will. Um, whereas acupuncture's gonna be f- you know, traditional Chinese medicine may be focused along the chi line, along your spine or your face or your ear.
- 0:28:14
There may be some part in your big toe that helps activate something in your shoulder, and, and so it would be more of you laying very still and having a series of needles inserted in various parts of your body. And by the look on your face, that may be something that we recommend, uh, just as general, uh, part of-
- 0:28:29
I mean, I pretty much stuck to ibuprofen, but, uh... In the early days called that witchcraft. All right. I, you know, that was a great explanation.
- 0:28:39
Yeah.
- 0:28:39
Thank you, Senator Still. Any, uh, anybody else with questions? Uh, I think we're doing great. Uh, do we take a motion? Motion. Yeah.
- 0:28:50
Senator-
- 0:28:50
We have a motion of do pass.
- 0:28:54
Non-partisan, uh, support.
- 0:28:55
All right, LCP 20991S, and we have a second from Senator Orrock, bipartisan. Any further discussion?
- 0:29:04
Just in the line of discussion, I would say that, I would say, you know, in all seriousness, uh, I, I, I've experienced great relief, like neck mobility is a, is a, is an example, from a, a, a skilled acupuncturist. Uh, and so, uh, don't diss it till you try it would be my advice. And I, uh, have nothing else to add to the discussion, Mr. Chairman.
- 0:29:27
Thank you. A- anything further? No further discussion. All those in favor say aye.
- 0:29:33
Aye.
- 0:29:34
All those oppo- uh, opposed, like sign. Sounds like it was unanimous. Wow.
- 0:29:40
Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, committee.
- 0:29:41
Thank you. All righty, appreciate that. Uh, I think that-
- 0:29:44
Motion to adjourn.
- 0:29:45
Yes, absolutely. Uh, we have some good and welfare here, uh, from Senator Kirkpatrick.
- 0:29:51
Yes. I'd like to introduce a visiting doctor who's with us today. Dr. Bala, would you stand up? She is a third-year emergency medicine resident at Emory, and she's gonna be doing a health policy fellowship next year, so she'll be... You'll see her around for the next couple weeks.
- 0:30:10
Thank you. Appreciate that. Any other business for the good and welfare? If not, we stand adjourned until Wednesday.
- 0:30:21
And when is Physicians' Day?
- 0:30:22
At 4:00.
- 0:30:23
You were quite-
- 0:30:23
It is. February 4th is... There are two special days Wednesday. It's a special day, Physicians' Day, and it is Savannah Chatham Day. And the Oyster Roast, don't forget that. Are these- Uh- ... these domestic oysters, or are they planning to- They are, they are domestic Definitely domestic oysters, guaranteed. Thank y'all. All right. Thank you, Ms. Crittenden. We appreciate that. We got it, uh-
- 0:30:51
Thank you.
- 0:30:54
Thank-