Senate Higher Education Committee, February 3, 2026 Video: https://vimeo.com/1161572935 (a timestamp t plays at https://vimeo.com/1161572935#t=s) Page: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-03/senate-higher-education This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays. [0:10:00] Has arrived. Uh, welcome to Georgia Senate Committee on Higher Education. I appreciate you being here. I'm gonna, uh, ask, uh, Senator Payne if he would open us in a prayer. Number is 10. [0:10:17] Let's pray. Dear heavenly Father, we thank you, Lord, for every opportunity you bring our way, Lord. Even this day and the air that fills our lungs that gives us purpose for you. Lord, just lead us as we go through this meeting today, so we represent everything that you would have us do. For it's in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. [0:10:35] Thank you, Senator. We have, uh, one agenda item to... actually, two agenda items. Uh, SB 400, which deals with, uh, a state agency bill, the Georgia Nonpublic Postsecondary Education Commission, and I will present that bill, and then we'll have a presentation from UCLA. And then I'm gonna ask, uh, our Vice Chairman, Senator Hickman, if he'll chair the committee, and I will, uh, present the bill. Mr. Vice Chair. [0:11:03] Yes, sir. [0:11:08] Well, good afternoon again. [0:11:10] Afternoon. [0:11:11] Well, people, you know, what happens as the day goes longer, the smiles get shorter. [0:11:19] It does seem it's got a direct relationship. So, Mr. Chairman Burns, um, Senate Bill 400, the floor, the floor is yours, sir. [0:11:31] Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm gonna invite, uh, Kirk Shook, who is the, um, commissioner- [0:11:39] Executive director [0:11:40] ... executive director. I have to get the right title down, I'm sorry. To join me as we go through this piece of legislation. We are working off of, oh, I need the right LC sub. It should be in your folders. Is that right? [0:11:55] Make sure I have the right LC, 'cause we had a, we had a committee sub. I believe it's LC61-0322. Is that correct? [0:12:03] 369S. [0:12:04] No, 369S. [0:12:05] And let me have your copy or a copy. [0:12:09] I think he's got it. [0:12:11] We'll go back to the law. [0:12:12] No, we won't. We will, we will, we will work with the substitute that we have- ... and we will work... And again, it's, uh, I know what's in it, as we say. Um, and I have a wing man here who help, who can help me as we work through it. But let's start with some background on the commission. To, uh, enlighten the committee, I'm gonna ask, uh, Executive Director Shook to do that. Just tell the committee what the commission does and why it's important. [0:12:41] Sure. Ladies and gentlemen, glad to be here to speak before you today. Our state agency is the one that regulates all the private colleges and trade schools, uh, in the state. Um, currently, there's about 360, uh, schools that, uh, we authorize, go into on a daily basis, um, review their academic program and finances, all of those things. So, uh, the majority of this bill deals with, uh, schools of that nature, uh, that we're speaking to today. [0:13:13] So, um, I have before you in the, uh, folder just a, the very beginning of our annual report for FY '25 that I'll send out to, uh, uh, Chairman Burns later for y'all to peruse as you see fit. [0:13:28] Okay. [0:13:28] But that's just the first couple pages, along with our, uh, biannual report on the Tuition Guarantee Trust Fund, which we're gonna spend some time talking about today. So you got a l- just a little bit of background, but that's what we do. [0:13:39] Uh, it- it's a, uh, 300, and these are not traditional colleges. These are non-accredited programs. They do not offer degrees. They offer diplomas or certificates in particular specific areas. Think welding, think certain business, um, programs. Um, we have a, a large number of schools across our state with, uh, 100 and how many thousand students? [0:14:11] Yeah, betw- every year, it's between 80 and 100,000 Georgia students attend these schools. Um, and the tuition every year is between $900 million and a billion dollars. So- [0:14:22] It's a very large system. [0:14:24] Mm-hmm. [0:14:24] So what we have is a state agency, and what's, uh, Senate Bill 400 does is it provides the commission with some additional oversight. It standardizes the way records are retained if I have a failing school, and it protects, uh, t- a tuition trust fund in case a school or institution would go out of business between the time that I have enrolled and the time I complete a program. Uh, so what I wanna do now is work carefully through the legislation, Senate Bill 400, LC61-0369S. [0:15:04] Uh, one of the first things we need to do in lines 18 through 30 is to define distance education. As, as we all know, that, uh, distance education become a, a, a tool of, uh, learning, uh, secondary, tertiary learning. And what we wanna do is codify in the, in the code that, uh, deals with nonpublic postsecondary education the, the concept of a ed- of a distance learning environment, so that's in lines 18 through 30. [0:15:41] And I think most interesting thing is if a person who receives education is within the state- It's one thing on line 28, but a, a person who may be operating a campus here and then providing education outside of the state would also be under the commission. Is that correct? [0:16:00] Correct. [0:16:01] Director? [0:16:01] And we, we have something like that currently in our code in the definitions, but this just helps to be a little bit more explicit, to make it a little bit more clear to the pe- folks that we deal with that this is, uh, that this is the case. So it's really helping to modernize our definitions. Um, this code was first written in 1991, so you could imagine the thoughts on distance education and things then. So this is, uh, using some c- more current definitions to help us get in line with where other states are, um, in, in this regulatory environment. [0:16:34] And then, and then if you look on line 70 through 72, um, current rulemaking would suggest that the agency would disallow unaccredited institution from offering degrees. What this legislation does is codify that- [0:16:52] Correct [0:16:52] ... in law, so as opposed to in rule, so that these institutions do not offer degrees. They're not accredited, but they, they do serve a very key purpose in our state in, especially in workforce development. So line 70 to 72 was the change. Um, [0:17:14] h- we, we have what is referred to as the- [0:17:22] Tuition Guarantee Trust Fund [0:17:25] ... Tuition Guarantee Trust Fund. Tuition Guarantee Trust Fund. We'll talk a little bit about that. Um, Director Shooks's agency maintains, uh, funds that would support students when a institution ceases to operate. And it, they, and the institutions pay in a small percentage, one... What percent? [0:17:48] 1/10th of 1%. [0:17:49] 1/10th of 1% of tuition to go into a trust fund to, uh, indemnify students who might be caught in a closure. Now, what you see in, um, in lines 77 through lines 81, it provides that institution with the option of, uh, uh, securing a letter of credit to do the same thing. So they can either make a contribution to the trust fund, or they can have a letter of credit or indeed a bond. [0:18:22] Is that not true? [0:18:23] Indeed, bond. That's right. [0:18:23] So the important thing here is we want the institution to be responsible for honoring their commitment to either deliver a course completely or, uh, a degree, although I think it's the course, at a course level. Is it not? It's not a degree level. They have to be able to teach out or refund tuition. That's the key. So the trust fund is there to indemnify the student in case the, the, uh, institution were to cease to operate. Section four. [0:18:56] Um, on occasion, um, Director Shooks encounters what we would commonly refer to as a bad actor. This is a, uh, an applicant who has a history of not, of non-performance that, who would not be able to complete the, the commitments that they have made. So in, in section four, we're dealing with essentially those in- those, uh, environments where previously, uh, an applicant has, uh, not performed, and it, uh, gives the executive director the criteria and the ability to deny them, uh, registration and participation. [0:19:43] So in lines 85 through 114, or 85, I guess now through 111 is where you see that. And you'll notice in line, um, I'll just read a couple lines. In, in line 92, "fails to meet criteria." In line 93, "previously caused loss or damage." Line, um, 98, "Has willfully failed to comply." So the objective here is not to deny them, but to ensure that the ones who we approve are good actors. [0:20:21] Is that a fair statement? [0:20:22] That's correct. [0:20:23] So moving along, uh, section five. Um, periodically, um, an institution will make an application for a, a course or a program that might not meet commission criteria. And in that, in that case, currently they can appeal through an administrative process, which is, uh, which is, tends to be longstanding. [0:20:53] It takes time. It takes money. Uh, it, it is cumbersome. What this will do is it would allow the ex- executive director and the commission to deny approval of a course or a program, and if challenged, if there's an appeal, the appeal would go directly to Superior Court. [0:21:12] Right. [0:21:12] Currently, it would go first to an administrative review by the commission and then to Superior Court. So it just shortcuts the ability of someone who says, uh, "I want this course or this, this program approved." It allows that program or approval either be approved or denied. If it's denied, they can have recourse in the courts. Anything you'd like to add on that? [0:21:37] No. [0:21:37] Director Shooks, is that okay? [0:21:38] That's good, good job. [0:21:40] All right. We're moving on. Section six, records. Section six deals with student records. Unfortunately, this is on lines 124 [0:21:56] Um, [0:21:59] 128 and following, and then again on line 140. Unfortunately, if a school ceases to operate, uh, the commission becomes the repositor of student records. So this is their course records, what they've taken, what credits they've earned, what diplomas or certificates have been awarded. If the, if the institution goes bankrupt, those records become the responsibility of the commission. [0:22:30] And unfortunately, those records are in various forms. Some are manual, some are digital or automated, but the real challenge is generally when a closure occurs, it occlo- it, it, it occurs at a point where, um, the, the records are left with the, the default institution, and they become either unavailable or difficult to recover. So what Section 6 will do is to allow the commission to have early access to records before the, the actual closure of the institution so that the commission can protect the records. [0:23:15] Um, and again, it's, it, it's all oriented toward, uh, s- protecting, uh, students in Georgia. Anything you'd like to add? [0:23:24] No, I would just, uh, note that, you know, one of the big efforts that we are working with our schools on as part of our annual review is to move toward digi- digital records because we have had in the past a school close, and they show up with a trash bag and say, "Here you go." And so then that's an extra time, expense, and cost on our staff. And so we're, we're working on e- every year, "Hey, this is the step you need to be taking. This is what you need to do to work toward digitizing records." And a lot are moving in that direction, but this would just give us the extra hammer to say, "At some point in the future, digital records are gonna be a requirement- [0:23:57] Requirement [0:23:57] ... and not an option." And so that's, that's a big part of this section. [0:24:01] And finally, in Section 7, it deals with the, uh, Tuition Guarantee Trust Fund. Um, historically, an institution who was a part of the, uh, Georgia, uh, Non-Public Postsecondary Education Commission paid a small fee, one-tenth of 1%? [0:24:20] One-tenth of 1%. [0:24:20] One-tenth of 1% of tuition into a trust fund originally set for five years, and then, then, then, then they, they would no longer have to make a contribution, but they would be covered, and then it was extended to seven years. What this does is it ex- it extends it indefinitely so that if you operate in Georgia, you must contribute to a trust fund or have the bond to indemnify the student or a letter of credit to indemnify the students. And I would, uh, acknowledge- [0:24:50] A line of credit [0:24:51] ... a line of credit, yes. So- [0:24:53] Le- Letter of credit. [0:24:53] Uh, yeah, this is irrevocable line of credit. Okay? So, um, what we s- have seen for the, for the good schools, the good actors, the vast majority of schools who operate in this space, who serve the students of Georgia, what we see is they can... They have the financial stability to indemnify themselves, and that's really what we would encourage. We'd encourage them to have a bond or a, a, a non-cancellable letter of credit. [0:25:25] Where they're, where they're not in that financial state to do it th- through the traditional financial options, then that's where the, the, uh, trust fund comes in. That's where the Tuition Guarantee Trust Fund comes in. What we need is, because of the number of students and the volatility in this space, we need for that trust fund to be, uh, robust enough to cover the closures to protect the students. So that's what you see in Section 7. [0:25:57] Again, uh, a lot of detail. It's a, it, it's what I refer to and we all refer to as an agency bill. This came from the commission at the request of their board through their executive director. Uh, it has been vetted through the governor's office, and the governor and his staff are comfortable with this proposal. And I'll, I'll turn it over to, uh, Doc Shook to, uh, to further, uh, share his thoughts, and then we'll accept questions. [0:26:28] Doc Shook? [0:26:29] Yeah. No, I just would, um, you know, open to take any questions you might have on it. This helps to give us a better, um, station as an agency given where higher ed is likely gonna go, uh, within the next 10 years or so. As, you know, if you, uh, keep track of it, you know that there's, um, gonna be more volatility in this sector. Uh, since I've been here, we've already seen several, uh, school closures, a few of them large, uh, several of them small. But, uh, uh, our agency is here partially to ensure that students are protected on the back end, and that's what the Tuition Guarantee Trust Fund is for. [0:27:09] That's what the, uh, records that we keep and maintain. Uh, we have spent the last, our staff, five or six years digitizing records that used to have stay at the state records center that we were paying for. So we are almost done. Our staff's almost completed that project. Uh, it's scheduled this spring. Uh, and so we currently have over, uh, 500,000, uh, student records that we are currently holding, and we assume that there's probably gonna be more Uh, in the future. So those are kind of the big highlights of, of what this bill will do, and it'll just help us put us in a better position going forward over the next, uh, next decade in higher ed. [0:27:45] So are you asking for, 'cause, 'cause y'all emphasized several times the one tenth of 1%, I think is what you said. Are y'all im- are y'all asking for an increase in that through this bill? [0:27:56] No. [0:27:56] No? [0:27:56] No, sir. Um, that's what's currently written in law, and we think that that's sufficient. But the problem and the reason that we're asking to go from when the bill was written in 1991- [0:28:07] Right [0:28:07] ... it's five years that all institutions paid into it. Uh, in 2021 it was increased to seven years. We're asking for that to be in perpetuity as just part of what institutions do. When they're paying their fees to the state, this is one of those fees that would pay in. Um, because what we have seen is from some institutions that have closed in recent years- [0:28:26] Uh-huh [0:28:26] ... is basically they have seen this, um, uh, as an insurance fund, right? "Hey, I paid into this, uh, you know, 20 years ago. Uh, if you need a tuition refund, don't come to me, come to the commission." Um, and that's not necessarily what we have, have this billed out for. We don't have the funds to do that. You know, I, I mentioned earlier, um, uh, the tuition liability if all of the schools closed today would be about a billion dollars. [0:28:52] How mu- [0:28:53] About a billion dollars. [0:28:54] A billion? [0:28:54] A billion. [0:28:54] Oh. [0:28:55] Uh, and currently in our fund we have about 5.7 million. So, um- [0:29:00] So you're a little bit short. [0:29:01] I would say that, uh, Senator. Just a little. [0:29:03] Yeah, exactly. [0:29:05] So that gives you the context and the scope. Now, we wouldn't expect everybody to close, but we wanna make sure that we're in a stronger position in the event that that does happen so that we can make students whole. [0:29:15] Le- let me, uh, uh, just in my district, okay? [0:29:18] Mm-hmm. [0:29:18] Augusta, Georgia. The Augusta Area Dietetic Internship, the Augusta Dental Assistant School, the Augusta, um, Opportunities, Opportunities Industrialization Center, the Augusta Real Estate Educators, the Augusta School of Massage. Oh, my. The sc- uh, you know, so y- you're seeing a... You know, I think there are like 30 or 40 schools- [0:29:44] Just in your- [0:29:45] ... in Richmond County, Georgia- [0:29:47] Correct [0:29:47] ... that serve niche needs for students. And I acknowledge that they, they possibly, that they, they could, they could, uh, receive some support either through TCSG or USG or from a private school university, but this is, this is the option they have chosen. And I, and as long as these individuals provide a preparation for students to meet the workforce needs of our state, what we wanna do- [0:30:15] Right [0:30:15] ... is protect them. This is an opportunity for us to protect them. And, uh, Dr. Shook and his staff, very small, and his commission, his board, have the responsibility for 360 schools. You realize that the university system has what? 24? [0:30:31] Right. [0:30:32] Mm-hmm. [0:30:32] The, uh, TCSG has 22. [0:30:34] That's right. [0:30:35] Six. [0:30:35] And our major publics are about another 25 or six or so. So we're looking at less than 100- [0:30:42] Major non-publics. [0:30:43] Yeah, major non-publics. So, so we're looking at less than 100 institutions that, uh, that are, that offer accredited degree programs, and three times that many offering non-accredit. [0:31:00] Mm-hmm. [0:31:00] So, uh, happy to take questions, Mr. Chairman. [0:31:03] Senator Orrock. [0:31:04] Oh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, and, uh, thank you for the bringing the bill, uh, Chairman Burns. Uh, it, it, it's been disturbing to me to see over and over students kind of taken in by some flashy advertising and, and, and paying what is, uh, you know, outlandish. And I say, "Do you know that you can go to the technical college and get bing, bing, bing, bing?" And they don't know that. And they're, they're... And then they, you know, the, all the, all, all, all of the negative downfalls that can happen, happen and, uh, they're just out in the cold and further behind than they were before. [0:31:44] So it's, it's a, it's a, it's, uh, ha- ha- having some, uh, a g- a governmental, uh, oversight with teeth in it is really important. Uh, and I completely agree with that. And I just wanted to, uh, ask the, the, uh, the, Dr. Shook if... Y- you said, "Given where things are going in the next 10 years in higher education." What did you mean by that? [0:32:08] Well, um, it... With all of the studies that all of the independent groups and- [0:32:15] Uh-huh [0:32:15] ... and universities and things are doing, um, you know, between demographics, you know, uh, according to, you know, data, 2025 is very likely the largest high school graduating class ever. So that means that all- [0:32:30] That we'll ever see again. [0:32:31] That... Correct. [0:32:31] Yeah. Right. [0:32:32] Correct. Um, and with that being the case, all institutions, um, publics and privates, uh, are gonna be facing issues of enrollment, right? And so with how many schools we have, we're talking about, you know, and it, it spans the gamut from- [0:32:50] Mm-hmm [0:32:50] ... from welding and, and dental assistant, medical assistant- [0:32:53] Mm-hmm [0:32:53] ... you know, all allied health programs, to, uh, you know, there are under our purview things like Devry and Strayer and Walden, you know- [0:33:00] Sure [0:33:00] ... the big chain- [0:33:02] Yeah [0:33:02] ... national, uh, schools that offer degrees and those things. And, you know, we're already seeing in many states, all, you know, just recently last year, South Carolina- [0:33:12] Mm-hmm [0:33:12] ... uh, private college, Lime- Limestone College closed precipitously. In North Carolina, Saint Andrew's College, a private, uh, historically college closed. And, uh, you know- [0:33:22] I didn't know that one [0:33:22] ... it's, it's happening across the country. We are, just again, to give you a little bit of context, our agency, what we have, they have in every other state. So we are part of a national organization where we discuss these things, and all the other states are seeing this as well. [0:33:40] Mm-hmm. [0:33:40] Uh, and so with- Changes at the federal level with, uh, potential funding issues, demographics, uh, all of these things, school's gonna start closing. And so we are trying to get ahead of the curve. Uh, you know, we don't wanna be lagging behind and being reactive. We wanna be in a position so that if this does start to happen here- [0:34:01] Mm-hmm [0:34:01] ... which we're not gonna be immune to it. [0:34:03] Mm-hmm. Sure. [0:34:03] Just in 2023, Art Institute of Atlanta, pretty big school closed. [0:34:07] Oh, yeah. [0:34:07] And we had to deal with that. [0:34:08] Yeah. [0:34:09] Um, in 2019, Argosy University, uh, when I first came on closed. [0:34:12] Fashion Institute of Atlanta. [0:34:13] That's right. And so you see w- we're not gonna be- [0:34:16] Yeah [0:34:16] ... immune to it. So we're just trying to get ourselves set up so that we're in a place that we can make sure that Georgia students, the 80 to 100,000 that attend these schools every year, are protected if something does happen. [0:34:28] Right. [0:34:29] So. [0:34:29] Yeah. [0:34:30] And, and by the way, there are some of these schools that are in candidacy for accr- with accrediting agencies, and if they then become accredited institutions, they would no- they would now move over to the private sector concept. [0:34:45] Yeah, and I, and I should say this too. We have, like, trade schools that are accredited by accreditors that probably most of you don't think about. When you think about accreditors, you think about, like, SACS. [0:34:54] Or TRACS. [0:34:54] And there's, and, yeah, or, or TRACS, things like that for religious programs- [0:34:58] Uh-huh [0:34:58] ... or whatnot. But, like, uh, COE based here in Georgia, uh, the Council on, um, Occupational Education, or ACCSC, uh, you know, which is a, which, uh, accredits career schools. So those are players in our sector too that we deal with as well. So both accredited, unaccredited, but most of our institutions are unaccredited. [0:35:20] If the committee is like I was, you know, six months ago, I could not say Georgia Nonpublic Postsecondary Education Commission, right? [0:35:30] I'm glad to hear that. [0:35:31] I couldn't. Well, may, may I... Actually, I became- [0:35:34] So I'll play catch up. [0:35:35] That's right. Right. We, but let me say, I, I really got an awareness of it i- in, uh, in our Senate Appropriations Committee, our Senate Higher Education Appropriat- Education and Higher Education Appropriations Committee, and began to understand the scope. [0:35:49] Mm-hmm. [0:35:49] And the scope was a bit overwhelming, uh, no- with the number of students, with the number of schools, with the dollar figure on tuition. [0:36:02] Yeah. [0:36:02] And realized, I'm not, correct me if I'm wrong, none of these schools would qualify for Hope in any way. [0:36:10] Some may. Um, some may qualify for Tuition Equalization Grant, but- [0:36:15] Not many [0:36:15] ... the vast majority, no. [0:36:16] Right. Right. [0:36:17] But they, they would qualify for Pell, is that right? [0:36:20] Um, if, if they are, uh, Title IV participating, I believe. [0:36:24] Okay. [0:36:25] But, uh, but again, that's a s- smaller portion. [0:36:27] Smaller- [0:36:27] Yeah [0:36:27] ... smaller subset. So at the end of the day, the legislature needs to be in a position to understand the challenge the commission fa- faces, and then we need to be in a position to support them as they attempt to manage a very large segment of edu- secondary education- [0:36:43] Yeah [0:36:43] ... or tertiary education. [0:36:44] And it's consumer protection. [0:36:46] Absolutely. [0:36:47] Yeah. [0:36:47] It is. [0:36:49] Senator Summers. [0:36:51] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, either one of you guys, 'cause I'm, I'm just catching this thing. It's the first time I ever even looked at it or thought about it, and appreciate being here. But, uh, is there any schools that would not be included in, uh, in, in this? [0:37:07] So when you, when you look at our purview, so there are anybody that is a public school, so TCSG, USG, they're their own entities. But- [0:37:21] Not a Christian academy or something like that would not be? [0:37:23] Right. So if it is, it has to be post-secondary. [0:37:25] Post-secondary. [0:37:26] So not K-12. [0:37:27] Not, yeah. [0:37:28] Right. So it's only post-secondary schools. Uh, but like, for example, uh, my alma mater, Young Harris College, they're a private school. [0:37:36] Uh-huh. [0:37:36] But they would be- [0:37:37] My next question [0:37:38] ... they're, they're what we consider exempt from authorization. So they have certain functions they have to do. For example, they provide us with an audit. Our auditor reviews it, and we have to report that out in our annual report every year of the status of those schools. But that's about as far as our oversight goes with those entities. Uh, but like I said, for others that are authorized, the 360, our staff are assigned 60 or so schools. They go out. Uh, we have folks that go out and visit, and they review the finances of the institution, they review the academic programming, um, uh, to ensure that, you know, it is quality, uh, it is being offered [0:38:15] ... Mr. Chairman, uh, two-year, four-year, i- irrelevant, right? [0:38:19] Right. It's, and, and a lot of them are not, we don't speak in terms of years. We talk about hours, clock hours, or weeks, or- [0:38:26] Certificates or diplomas [0:38:27] ... yeah. [0:38:27] I must have missed that memo. Sorry about that one. [0:38:29] Certificates or diplomas generally are- [0:38:32] Gotcha [0:38:32] ... multi-year programs. [0:38:34] And, and- [0:38:35] Is that right? [0:38:35] Would you mind hitting one more time about why the Pell and the Hope is just not used? I di- I didn't quite- [0:38:40] Well, you ha- you have to meet certain thresholds to be able to qualify in statute, um, for, for that, and I'm not completely up-to-to-date on that, 'cause that's more of an institution side of things. But, you know, to be a Hope recipient, receiving institution, you have to be, uh, accredited- [0:38:55] Accredited [0:38:56] ... and, uh, degree-granting, all of those things. Uh, whereas, again, the majority of our schools are not degree-granting. Uh, some are, but, uh, most aren't. Uh, and they wouldn't qualify for that. And, and to qualify for Pell, I believe, and I'm, uh, again, hold me to this, I believe you have to be a Title IV participating institution. Um, that means that, you know, you have a certain accreditation, those things. I don't think you can take a Pell Grant to a non-accredited school. Uh, but again, that's a US Department of Education thing that I'm not 100% up to speed on. [0:39:26] But I can find it out for you. [0:39:28] No, no, I did- [0:39:29] I, I, I would say- [0:39:30] I'm learning [0:39:30] ... uh, the, the Hope, uh, both the Hope Scholarship and the Hope Grant are for degree-granting institutions that are accredited by SACS, Southern Acc- [0:39:44] And your- [0:39:44] Association of colleges [0:39:46] ... yeah [0:39:46] ... schools, uh, s- uh, college of, commission on colleges. Now, there is an alternative. There are other alternative accrediting bodies. Uh, sometimes they would be, they would be acceptable for Hope and Hope scholarships and grants, but this doesn't deal with the, the, the student financing. This deals with student protection. [0:40:10] Yeah, thank you. Um, we have no more questions. What is the rule of the committee? [0:40:16] I got one here. [0:40:16] Oh. One more. Oh, we do. Sorry. Oh, you just, you just did it. Yeah, I did. Okay. Oh. Snuck up on me, okay. Senator Howard. Senator, take it away. [0:40:23] Thank you so much. I learned a lot in this presentation, so I really appreciate it. Um, with, uh, schools and institutions that have dissolved, um, being that our world will be more digitized over the next, you know, five, 10, 20 years, uh, personal information is, uh, worth money, and so bad actors tend to act badly. So is there provisions to protect, uh, personal information after institution? And we know we have things in place while they're, you know, in existence. [0:40:56] But when they get dissolved, how do we not only have them hand over that information, but also not sell information to, uh, third parties, maybe a party that, a company that they just changed the name? And so how do we build those provisions if, if not s- if not already? [0:41:15] I haven't really put a lot of thought into that, but it is something to, um, to consider certainly. Um, I think a lot of it, uh, just in the past has been, "All right, we trust that you're gonna hand it over to us, and that you're not gonna do anything with it." But- [0:41:27] Right [0:41:27] ... you know, that is, uh, you know, probably not the best posture, and I'm not sure, but I think that's something we can go back and talk about as a staff and think about what we could do to try to help prevent that. But, you know, it's, it's unfortunate it is. You know, bad actor's gonna act bad and, uh, no matter what you try to do with them sometimes. [0:41:46] I w- I would say one of the provisions in the legislation would allow the commission to have access to those records prior to- [0:41:53] Right [0:41:53] ... physical closure. That's really critical because once they close their doors- [0:41:57] Oh, yeah [0:41:58] ... they lock it and leave, and it's just whatever's left or whatever they take with them. So it's more, it's, it's important for the commission to have access to records where we've got an institution who may be on the brink of, of, of closure to, to make sure that we get in there early and, and, and protect the student records. We've also had some situations, and I'll turn to the executive director to share. We've, we've had some actors, bad actors who, um, who would want to close and keep the money, and then leave the tuition guarantee trust fund to provide the reimbursement. [0:42:40] This legislation addresses that problem. [0:42:42] Yes. [0:42:42] So you might wanna speak to that. [0:42:44] Right. Yeah, and so basically we, as we started talking about some of these things, we said, "Well, you know, if these institutions, uh, want to treat our trust fund as an insurance policy, then it needs to be like an insurance policy." You know, I can't, number one, if, if my house burns down, I can't go and buy insurance the day after, right? Um, and so we can't say, "Well, I paid insurance on it last year, so you gotta cover me for the rest of my life," which is basically what we have told folks, right? [0:43:14] You know, I was, I was just looking at some numbers. Uh, you know, there are some institutions that paid back in the '90s for five years, and they paid in $60,000, and I looked at their tuition this last year in 2025, and it was $15 million. [0:43:27] Hmm. [0:43:27] And they paid $50,000 30 years ago, and we would cover them today for all, uh, um... There's some safeguards in place, but basically we could potentially be on, on the hook for any- [0:43:37] Yeah [0:43:37] ... any closure that happened today. [0:43:38] But it's past time to take these measures. [0:43:40] Mm-hmm. [0:43:41] Right. Correct. [0:43:42] I appreciate that answer. One follow-up, if I may? [0:43:44] Yeah, you're fine. [0:43:45] Um, does it seem like there's room for legislation to kind of catch up with technology here to help give you the tools that you need? Um, because it seem, because there are people who, and I, and I'll preface this by saying a lot of our, um, programs are doing things remotely, and, uh, in the past, these interactions were not recorded. Um, so now with AI transcriptions, with video storages, uh, the amount of data that are, these, um, groups, again, small percentage bad actors, but the amount of data that they have, um, they can very easily close shop. [0:44:23] They have the, they have the volume of information. They can just start a new company. So, um, I just wanted to share that with you. I know you know this already, but maybe there's room for us to get our reg- regulations to catch up with technology. I mean, it sounds like y'all are doing an amazing job already, just thinking a couple steps ahead as well. [0:44:42] Yeah, and there's, I, I will say there is, uh, one of the things that the legislature generously did last year, that y'all gave us some funds to be able to, uh, move forward with a, a third party vendor to help us with the transcript servicing. [0:44:56] Yes. [0:44:57] Because we were doing that part ourselves, and so our office manager ended up, she was doing more transcript servicing of the, you know, 2,000 transcripts that, uh, 2,500 transcripts I think she had to do last year than she was doing just other work that we needed her to do. So we, y'all graciously gave us some money to be able to move forward to, uh, contract the vendor to do that. And now instead of us taking, you know, a week plus to get a transcript to somebody, they can get a transcript in five minutes. And so it's, it's helping the students. It's helping us. But, you know, one of the things that they have proposed that we're looking at that we may start to venture into, and, you know, some of this legislation can help, can kind of help us with that, is that in other states that they're operating in, uh, they are, they have requirements that these institutions give the records annually. [0:45:42] So as part of their application- [0:45:44] Oh, yeah [0:45:44] ... process, "Hey, we want a, an update of all your records, uh, and we want them as part of your process, and you can't get reauthorized until that happens." So then you don't have to wait until the very end and trying to get everything and scramble, but you're, you're collecting it as, as time goes on. So we haven't really figured out what that would necessarily look like with us and in our scope because each state is a little bit different, but that is something that we have been, they've been talking to us about, and we've been talking to them. We've been talking to other states about how they're doing it. So, you know, we're, we're trying to figure it out. [0:46:14] Sure. [0:46:14] But thank you. [0:46:15] Thank you. [0:46:16] Thank you. Thank you. Any other questions? No questions from the committee. So do I have a motion? [0:46:25] I move that we pass on- [0:46:28] Senator Orrock moves to pass. Do I have a second? [0:46:30] Senate Bill 400 by committee substitute. [0:46:33] Oh, thank you, ma'am. LC 61-0369. S as in Sam. [0:46:40] Mm-hmm. [0:46:40] Correct. [0:46:42] Second, Senator Williams. All in favor. Any comments? No comments. All on paper, raise your hand. 100%, Teresa. [0:46:52] Thank you. [0:46:53] Thank you. Thank you. 100%, even though one of us is slow at the end. [0:47:01] Thank you, Senator. Chairman Burns, thank you so much. It's your turn now. [0:47:04] No, no. You went- [0:47:05] No, no. It's your, it's your turn. It's your turn. [0:47:09] I think you're, you're gonna continue with the meeting, is that right? [0:47:12] No, it's your turn. [0:47:13] Mr. Chairman, if I may, I'll excuse myself to, to do another bill over on the House side. [0:47:18] Oh, that's right. I forgot about that. [0:47:19] Yes, sir. [0:47:19] Okay, I'm sorry. I'm sorry. [0:47:20] I apologize. [0:47:21] You did, you did, uh, you did mention that to me. [0:47:23] I did, I did. We've got one more agenda item that I wanna talk about. [0:47:25] Okay. Oh. [0:47:27] Which, which, which we're in high anticipation of. Absolutely. [0:47:31] Yeah. Good luck. [0:47:32] All [0:47:37] right. [0:47:37] Chairman Burns has had two bills back to back. There's been a lot of questions on them. A lot of comments. Um, our next is, uh, just a presentation. [0:47:46] Just a presentation. [0:47:46] Not just a presentation, but a presentation. [0:47:49] Oh, a presentation. [0:47:49] A 15-minute presentation by Ms. Purcell, Government Relations Director- [0:47:54] Ellucian [0:47:55] ... at, how do you pronounce that? [0:47:56] Ellucian. [0:47:57] Ellucian. Okay. Thank you, ma'am. [0:47:59] Thank you. [0:47:59] Please introduce yourself, your guest, and we'll take it off. [0:48:02] Okay. Good afternoon. I know this has been a long day for everyone. We do have visuals for you. [0:48:10] Mm-hmm. [0:48:10] My name is LaQuaya Purcell. It's great to see some of you. Hey, Senator Orrock. Um, I've met some of you in the past. Really quick background on myself. I am a Georgia native. I am a product of two institutions here i- in the State of Georgia. My first time in the Gold Dome was as a legislative aide, and that was a product of the University of Georgia internship that I was able to have there. So I just wanna thank each and every one of you for your time and for having, um, us here today. [0:48:42] I also have my colleague here, Shelly Tomlin. She's sitting behind me. We're both happy to take any questions that you may have. Um, really quickly, for those of you that do not... So my role at Ellucian, I have an opportunity to work with institution systems, states, um, to, um, really align their technology with the workforce. If you don't know who Ellucian is and what we do, Ellucian is one of the largest providers of technology, um, built specifically for higher ed, and we manage the day-to-day operations. [0:49:19] And so our technology, um, empowers financial aid, registration, the student information systems. So as, as you were talking about data, Senator Hauer, we maintain that and make sure that it's compliant. We also, um, help empower the human resources, alumni relations, all of the functions, um, that a school will, um, manage. Really quickly, I have some stats about us so that you know what we do and how we do it. [0:49:51] So we do have a global presence. We support over 20 million students worldwide. Um, we have about 3,000, um, customers across 50 countries. And, um, we have a huge presence here in the United States. So as you can see here on the slide, we support almost all of the institutions across higher, um, hi- ed in the United States, so that's community colleges, HBCUs, your four-year institutions. Um, and, uh, I will call out, because my work is very close to higher ed systems, we work and empower systems across the United States. [0:50:32] So right now we're working with the Alabama Community College System to support their workforce efforts. We are working with SUNY up in New York to support their student success outcomes, and in California, we're helping them manage their data so that they can make good decisions to remove, um, barriers for students. [0:50:50] That's great. [0:50:50] But most importantly is our work that we do here in Georgia, because as I mentioned, in Georgia, we do support 100% of the public institutions, so that's 100% of USG, that's 100% of TCSG, 80% of, 80% of the HBCUs, and then, you know, half a million students are served here in Georgia and use our technology. [0:51:17] What has that looked like to date? I think you saw on the first slide that we have served and worked in Georgia for over 50 years, um, and we work across the state and across these systems. So for Georgia Student Finance Commission, um, we help power the backbone of HOPE, and so we have something called Ellucian Ethos that ensures that the data that is collected by the Georgia Student Finance Commission is compliant and that it is accurate. Um, and, and we partnered on that a, a few years ago, and we continue to work with the Georgia Student Finance Commission, especially around affordability and how we can help those students earlier. [0:51:55] We also have partnered with the University System of Georgia around an initiative called No More Borrow Less, and so we, they use technology to reach out to, um, lots and lots of students. So there was two million documents that were collected. This is the first year of the initiative. Um, over 2.5 million communications that were delivered electronically, and then, um, through a chatbot called Virtual Advisor, there was over 90,000 conversations that were had, and the students certainly, um, saw Outcomes and, um, students were able to, to borrow less. [0:52:36] And then lastly, I want to talk a little bit more about this, but we're really, really proud. I believe it was back in the fall that I was here to, um, present to the study committee, and at that time we were in the pilot phase for something called cross-registration at the Technical College System of Georgia. And so that allows for regardless of where a student lives and where they are being educated, they can take a course anywhere within that system, right? And so that removes those barriers so that students are able to get through quicker, and it allows for students to be credentialed and into the workforce. [0:53:18] We, um, are deeply committed to supporting the initiatives here in Georgia that you have, especially around higher ed. As far as I can see, it feels really connected. So the early access around Georgia Match and direct admissions, um, all the way to your guided transfer, um, pathway. So the Top State for Talent Act, where we're connecting education and workforce. And then of course, um, the, um, nursing pathway program that you have. [0:53:49] This sh- tells us at Ellucian that talent outcomes are really important all the way through the student journey. And so we have the solutions to support Georgia Match. We're cur- in current conversations with Georgia Student Finance Commission to continue to support affordability and early access. We have, um, working really with a lot of institutions in Georgia right now around engaging those dropouts. So those students that dropped out, how do you re-engage them so that they are credentialed so that you can be that top state for talent? [0:54:21] And then, um, a lot of conversations right now, I would say inside of Georgia, yes, but with other states around making transfer more e- e- easier, right? So in North Carolina, we just finished a pilot between the technical colleges and, or the community colleges and the four years and for a statewide initiative around transfer. We have, um, other contiguous states that are thinking about how to make that easier so that higher h- education is more accessible and more affordable, and we continue to support, um, the Georgia institutions. [0:54:55] Finally, well, I say finally, yeah, finally, this is the next to the last slide, but I think it's probably the most important slide because it talks about the momentum that we have here in Georgia right now. So we know that retention and completion is imperative, especially if we are aiming to be that top state for talent. And so we are working very closely with our Technical College System of Georgia institutions. We have some University System of Georgia institutions. [0:55:27] We were just talking to Senator Hickman about how Georgia Southern is at the forefront of being willing to innovate and think about how they can support those students. And so we certainly want to execute this at scale and align academic, financial, and student support across the system. And then, um, I told you just a second ago that when I spoke last year, Technical College System of Georgia, they had piloted four institutions, um, to take part in cross-registration. [0:56:00] They call that TCSG Connect. It allows for the students to take courses anywhere. So if you're in South Georgia and you need to take an engineering class and they don't have that at your institution, but they have it in North Georgia, you can do that and complete. I went to the Technical College System of Georgia Student Success Summit back in November. The cross-registration session was standing room only. People were standing in the hallway because they are very excited about the ability to offer this for students. [0:56:33] Um, we have a lot of momentum going on in Georgia, and I think my ask for all of you is that we, Georgia, as I told you before, 100% of the public institutions use the same technology. So there is a huge opportunity to do things at scale, and we want to take advantage of that. Other states are doing it, and I'm happy after this to talk to you about what we're doing in other states, especially to empower the workforce. I don't want to see us behind. I know Senator Orrock knows this. [0:57:04] I'm always like, "We're Georgia. We gotta do better than this." So, um, and we're doing great work. We're doing great work, and we have some institutions that are at, are at the forefront. We want to make sure that we continue to be great partners for y'all. Um, I did, this might be hard to get to, so I can make sure that the committee has a copy of this. I've been working with Jay and Trent, um, and so I can make, we'll give you a copy of the story. But this just went live la- in December. So that Technical College System of Georgia story that I was telling y'all about, we have a case study that shows how it empowers the workforce. [0:57:39] Would be happy to share that with you so that you can see the work that we're doing. Um, and so I'll leave you with that, and happy to take any questions. But I'm, I'm here to say that we are proud partners of Georgia. We want to continue to partner w- with the State of Georgia and its institutions, and certainly help to meet those, um, workpost- workforce goals and those talent goals that we have. [0:58:05] Any questions for me? [0:58:06] Thank you. Any questions? Yeah. Yes, sir, number six. [0:58:09] We learned a lot. We learned a lot here, didn't we? [0:58:11] Yeah, very much so. Thank you so much. Uh, the, the kind of bones behind things, uh, that make things go, it's, it's a big deal. [0:58:19] Yeah. [0:58:19] We've also seen with technology that everyone's depending on specific type of platforms- [0:58:25] Mm-hmm [0:58:25] ... and then you find out when something goes wrong. [0:58:27] Yes. [0:58:27] Um, are you concerned that we're overly dependent on- [0:58:34] On our loose, uh, on our technology? [0:58:36] Just, you know, and 'cause I know there's a desire for us to do more. [0:58:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [0:58:40] And but I think it's fair to ask- [0:58:42] Yeah [0:58:43] ... you know, if, uh, is it possible to be overly dependent? Because, uh, how, how do we feel comfortable as a state saying, "Hey, let's give, you know, if 100% of our universities-" [0:58:52] Yeah [0:58:52] ... are working with you, but we can get even deeper- [0:58:56] Yeah [0:58:56] ... right? 'Cause the rabbit hole keeps going. You guys have- [0:58:58] Yeah [0:58:58] ... AI tools, cloud tools. [0:59:00] Yes. [0:59:00] You guys have a vision for the future. [0:59:02] Yeah. [0:59:02] You're doing this all over the world. Um- [0:59:05] Yeah [0:59:06] ... what concerns do you have as far as being too dependent on a platform that has international reach- [0:59:13] Yeah [0:59:13] ... which also sometimes, sometimes, not you- [0:59:15] Mm-hmm [0:59:15] ... makes some companies a little vulnerable to international targets? [0:59:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah. [0:59:20] Yeah. [0:59:20] So one thing, one thing that I do l- I'll tell you what I love first. I love that, um, because we're the backbone, that means that all the other technology, uh, links integrates in with it, right? So it may not be our technology that an institution is using to run all of its financial aid needs, but we allow for that technology to plug into, um, our so that it runs effectively. [0:59:46] Exactly. [0:59:46] Um, and that's why I say we touch every part of the student experience. It may not necessarily be our technology, but we certainly allow for that. I think the concern that I do have is that we need to modernize the technology. So as I said to you before, we've been partners for over 50 years. Um, right now that technology is on-prem, meaning that it's on the premise and not in the cloud, and that is the biggest concern and the biggest risk. [1:00:17] So you're, regardless of what I would say technology vendor other states' colleges are using, they're still exploring how do we get to the cloud and how do we modernize so that the data that we are, that we do have, or the technology that we are using, students ca- can, students can, um, use it more readily because we know that they want things in real time. So I would say my biggest concern is not necessarily that we're using the same technology, we're just, we need to catch up so that we can use even... [1:00:57] We can be more exploratory, right? So it may not, again, like I said, it may not be our financial aid. It, you may not even be using us for whatever your registration tools are. We're gonna allow for you to go out and get whoever it is that you wanna work with. Um, but it becomes more difficult when you're not modernized, and that's our biggest opportunity here in Georgia. [1:01:17] Thank you. [1:01:18] Very good. [1:01:21] Anything else? [1:01:22] Everybody happy? [1:01:23] I think we have Oh, yes. I, I, I, I said it from the, from earlier presentations and I'm, I'm so glad that they're with us today to- [1:01:31] Yeah [1:01:31] ... um, it's, it's quite, it's, it's, it's quite a long, uh, uh, relationship that- [1:01:37] Mm-hmm [1:01:37] ... most of us have been scarcely aware of. [1:01:41] Yeah. Exactly. Exactly, and we wanna make sure that you're even more aware. And as you know, we're always happy to support you, all of you, as you, um, have questions, as you are thinking about your districts and your colleges and universities in your districts. Happy to answer any questions about what's going on there, and we'll continue to support where we can. Thank you. [1:02:02] Thank you. [1:02:02] Thanks. [1:02:04] Um, any other comments? If not, we're adjourned. [1:02:07] Thank you, Mr. Chair. [1:02:08] I thank, I thank Senator Harrell for it again. [1:02:13] She, she normally, she, she normally asks some questions. She didn't ask any questions today. [1:02:17] I'm just shy. [1:02:18] She gave me, she gave me [1:02:18] Oh, oh, she... [1:02:23] Thank you. [1:02:23] Thank y'all. Y'all have a great evening. [1:02:24] Have a good one. [1:02:25] See y'all in the morning. [1:02:26] Yeah. [1:02:27] Thank you. [1:02:27] That is so true, if the Lord willing.