--- title: House Judiciary Non-Civil Committee, February 5, 2026 collection: meetings id: 2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil cite_as: House Judiciary Non-Civil Committee, February 5, 2026, video https://vimeo.com/1162300445 (machine transcript by Georgia Commons) canonical_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil md_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil.md text_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil/text source_url: https://vimeo.com/1162300445 date: 2026-02-05 status: machine transcript corpus_version: meetings-2026-10-23-8c15ead0f18d license: Machine transcript and summaries by Georgia Commons from the General Assembly's public video; the video stays on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel; see about.md publisher: Georgia Commons, an independent project of Georgia Civic Data. Not the State of Georgia. Not legal advice. up: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05.md previous: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-insurance-and-labor.md next: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-06/senate-rules.md index: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/index.md chamber: House body: House Judiciary Non-Civil Committee body_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/house-judiciary-non-civil.md meeting_kind: committee session: 2025-2026 Regular Session start_time: 2026-02-05T16:30:00-05:00 location: 132 CAP duration_seconds: 6573.0 video_id: 1162300445 video_title: 2.5.26 Judiciary Non-Civil agenda_url: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/house/Judiciary Non-Civil%2FJudiciary Non-Civil full committee meeting 2.5.26.pdf bills_discussed: - SB 74 - HB 57 summaries_model: gpt-6.1-sol transcript_turns: 440 transcript_chars: 73224 parts: - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil.md?start=0 - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil.md?start=59482 --- # House Judiciary Non-Civil Committee, February 5, 2026 House Judiciary Non-Civil Committee; February 5, 2026; 2025-2026 Regular Session. Video, on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel: https://vimeo.com/1162300445. Agenda: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/house/Judiciary Non-Civil%2FJudiciary Non-Civil full committee meeting 2.5.26.pdf. > This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays. ## Summary written by Georgia Commons Written by gpt-6.1-sol from the transcript below. It is not part of the record. Quote the transcript or the video, not the summary. The committee heard extensive testimony on [SB 74](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb74), concerning libraries and access to material considered harmful to minors. Supporters said the proposal would protect children, while opponents raised concerns about access to books and legal risks for librarians. Members discussed an amendment tying liability to failure to follow a governing authority’s decision, but left the language unresolved and planned to meet again February 6 after House adjournment. The committee also approved [HB 57](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb57), which the sponsor said would add step-grandparent and step-grandchild relationships to Georgia’s incest law. ## Bills discussed (2) Each account was written by gpt-6.1-sol from the stretch of the transcript it names. The bill's number is said in that stretch, unless it was the only bill on a committee's agenda. ### SB 74. Harmful Materials to Minors; exemption for libraries and librarians from the provisions of Code Section 16-12-103; repeal [SB 74](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb74) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [0:20:52](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1252s), turns 3 to 436. The sponsor presented a substitute removing libraries’ exemption from restrictions on providing harmful material to minors. The sponsor said it would protect children without banning books and offered protections for people unaware of the material or who had recommended review or attempted relocation. One member supported equal accountability; another questioned whether librarians could still face charges and costly defenses over unfamiliar books. The sponsor said the protections would prevent liability. Witnesses for the Georgia Baptist Association and Frontline supported the proposal as child protection. A former librarian said parents could still obtain relocated books. A scientist and a committee member debated reading passages in context and parental choice. A Georgia Youth Justice Coalition witness warned of reduced reading access. An Authors Against Book Bans witness described restrictions affecting books and authors’ livelihoods. An ACLU of Georgia witness argued that obscenity was already prohibited and that the bill addressed a different, variable standard. The West Georgia Regional Library System director described local review procedures and requested protection tied to governing-board decisions. The vice chair offered similar language, explaining that liability would follow knowing noncompliance with those decisions. The sponsor accepted that approach but requested board training in Georgia law. After wording concerns, the chair paused consideration. No vote on the amendment or bill was completed; further work was planned for February 6. ### HB 57. Crimes and offenses; incest; include step-grandparent and step-grandchild relationship [HB 57](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb57) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [1:18:27](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4707s), turns 405 to 427. The sponsor said the bill would add step-grandparent and step-grandchild relationships to Georgia’s incest law. The sponsor described a northwest Georgia case involving a 17-year-old and a step-grandfather, saying the young person’s age prevented a statutory rape prosecution and the relationship was not covered by the incest law. The chair noted that nobody had signed up to testify for or against the bill. The committee approved a motion to pass by voice vote, with no vote count stated. > The transcript runs 73,224 characters. A reader that cannot take it at once can read it in 2 parts: part 1 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil.md?start=0; part 2 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary-non-civil.md?start=59482. ## Transcript (440 turns) [0:19:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1174s) All right, we're gonna get started. We're running a little bit late, so everybody come to order. [0:19:46](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1186s) I mean hush. Uh, Chairman Leverett, would you lead us in a word of prayer? Which number are you? [0:19:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1196s) L- let's pray. Um, dear Father, thank you for this day. Thank you for this chance for us to come together and tend to the people's business. Please bless us as we go through this meeting and make sure that we make decisions that are wise and just in your, uh, guidance. Please guide us now through this meeting and be with us all. Help us remember to keep our patience, to keep our kindness, and remember to treat each other with respect. We ask all this in your name. Amen. [0:20:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1221s) Amen. Amen. Thank you, Chairman Leverett. Welcome to the first full Judiciary Non-Civil Committee. Uh, wanna welcome our new member, Mr. Bill Fincher. Uh, he has a very, very, uh, robust resume, and we're glad to have him here in the People's House. So, uh, hold onto your chair there, Representative. You'll have a lot of fun, so. Uh, real quick, I'm gonna call up Senate Bill 74. [0:20:53](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1253s) Uh, Senator, it's good to see you. [0:21:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1264s) Good to see you. [0:21:05](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1265s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Really, I, uh, I'm grateful for the opportunity to review again Senate Bill 74. And so what you have in front of you is the latest revision, LC48-9006S. And b- before we look at the bill, I wanna do a, a quick walk through the process. All... You should have in your packet a copy, at least what I call layman law copy, right? [0:21:36](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1296s) What's on the internet may not be as complete, uh, as your libraries. But you have the current code section for 16-12-103. It's the Obscenity Statute in Georgia Law, codified late '60s, early '70s. Uh, I simply point you to Section A. [0:22:03](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1323s) I don't hear a thing. [0:22:03](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1323s) Yeah. [0:22:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1324s) Y- it's right there, and I brought it in an hour ago. Okay. [0:22:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1327s) And that's LC... [0:22:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1328s) LC... Yeah, if you would pass those out. [0:22:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1331s) Yeah. We'll get those passed out. [0:22:13](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1333s) Okay. [0:22:13](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1333s) Go ahead and keep on going. [0:22:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1334s) Yeah, LC48-9006S. Okay, now again, this is out of, uh, just, just to, just to... Well, anyway. Supposedly current as of 2024, and to my knowledge, no changes have been made since then. So this is current law in Georgia and has been since the late 1960s, late 1960s. And I, I just point out Section A, "It shall be unlawful for any person knowingly to sell or loan for monetary consideration or otherwise furnish or disseminate to a minor the following: any picture, photograph, drawing, sculpture, motion picture film, or similar visual representation of an image of a person or portion of the human body that depicts sexually explicit nudity, sexual conduct, or sadomasochistic abuse, which is harmful to minors." And then it, it goes on about pamphlets and books, and if you look over, um, there's an issue about, uh, admission tickets in Section B, so you can't allow a, a minor into a motion picture show or other theatrical performance where there might be explicit sexual nudity or representation. [0:23:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1422s) Um, it, it, uh, deals with, in Section C, it deals with the fact that you can't falsely represent your age. Section D, it says if you present yourself as an agent or a parent or guardian and that's false, you're culpable. Um, and then it also, a little bit further on, deals with video games. Um, Section F, subparagraph three, "A person violating the provisions of this section shall be punished with a civil fine in the amount of not less than $250 or more than $500 for each violation. [0:24:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1461s) Each day in violation of this subsection shall constitute a separate offense." Now, my understanding is this has been law for [0:24:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1473s) 40, 50 years now. A while, okay? Somewhere around 1984, you have a one-pager that shows you [0:24:45](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1485s) 16-12-104, the exception clause. The exception clause simply states, "The provision of the code section 16-12-103 shall not apply to any public library operated by the state or any of its political subdivisions, nor of any library operated as a part of any school, college, or university." That was the li- what we've been debating for now, uh, a while. This is the exception clause, right? So just, uh, you know, that's, that's my current understanding. [0:25:17](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1517s) Also, you have in your hands a packet that is a map of the United States that, uh, shows those states that have full exceptions And this map came to me from Representative Bethany Soy. I'd like to credit Representative Soy. She is a State House member in South Dakota, and she's been working on this challenge, like we have, for at least two years, probably longer. [0:25:50](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1550s) But I, I just want you to look at the map, and I, I, I would suggest to you that Georgia, Louisiana, Pennsylvania, and Washington are the only states out of 50 that have full exceptions. The vast majority provide an except- pr- provide no exception but provide a defense, a defense. So, ah, let's look quickly at Senate Bill 74. [0:26:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1589s) The current version in front of you is a substitute. Again, I wanna thank the committee and the committee chair, and the, and the, um, chairman of the subcommittee for working through this with me and helping me understand how best to accomplish the objective of protecting children. That's the goal. And if, if you look at lines, a l- I guess, uh, 12 through 15, that mirrors current law, and then the, the portion added is the, "If the person..." It eliminates the exception. [0:27:06](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1626s) First, it eliminates the exception, but it protects the person if the, uh, they were, they were not aware of the harmful material, they had previously suggested, recommended, warned, or otherwise communicated that there was a potential that such harmful mate- material at issue should be considered for a book challenge or obscenity review, and they did it. That's a defense. And then they had suggested, recommended, or attempted to have such material moved, and that's a defense. [0:27:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1660s) So, [0:27:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1662s) at the end of the day, we go back to, uh, my earlier statements on libraries and librarians. I love libraries. I love our librarians. I appreciate their work. They are trained professionals that assist us in educating both youth and adults, children, youth, and adults across our state, and we're proud of our libraries. This bill is not intended in any way to be an attack on libraries or librarians. [0:28:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1701s) My granddaughter is in the eighth grade in Marietta, Georgia. Her eighth grade teacher must follow 16-12-103. The librarian in her school is currently exempted. That makes no sense. So if the teacher is held accountable for materials, why would the librarian be exempt? [0:28:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1739s) If my 13-year-old granddaughter went to a convenience store and was exposed to explicit sexual material, the owner of the store and the clerk who operated the store would be responsible for that and would be under 16-12-103. Um, in, in my mind, this is a straightforward bill that ensures that every Georgian follows Georgia law, 16-12-103. [0:29:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1779s) And now 16-12-104 says, "Librarians, we love you, we appreciate you, we support you." If by chance material found its way into a section where youth or, or where young people under 18 could gather, 12 or under, whatever the, the, the, the ch- children's section is, then here's how you, uh, correct that challenge so that they're not gonna be arrested. [0:30:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1811s) They're not gonna be put in jail. They're not gonna be fined. They're going to be allowed to comply with Georgia law. Now, if they choose not to comply, that's a different set of circumstances. So I hope that what we can agree on is that we need to protect the children of Georgia from materials that would be harmful, and I would encourage those who oppose the legislation to just read the law and, and try to wrap your head around, what's the big challenge here? [0:30:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1855s) Uh, I, I know we've spent hours in this room, and I wanna thank you for that. Uh, I wanna thank those who are here today. I wanna thank those who were here Tuesday, those who oppose it, those who support it. I wanna thank, uh, those of us who went through this process a year ago. Thank you. But I would hope that today we could come to a place where we can agree to move this bill forward. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll be happy to accept questions. [0:31:25](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1885s) Thank you, Senator. Uh, number 11, I believe, is that you, Representative Byrd? [0:31:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1893s) It is. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I greatly appreciate you, um, Senator, for bringing this bill forward. Um, as a state elected official, it is my duty On occasion to have to pass laws that I choose not to. And this, this is one of those times. And me personally, I believe in personal responsibility. A parent should have their ability to do whatever it is that they want with their children. [0:31:58](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1918s) Absolutely. [0:31:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1919s) And I also believe in the proper role of government. But unfortunately, in the past few weeks, I have been given evidence from around the state of Georgia the most vile sexually explicit material that our taxpayers fund libraries. This capital protects children in numerous ways, and I believe this bill is much needed and to protect our children and our librarians, and I greatly appreciate you doing this once again. [0:32:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1954s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:32:35](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1955s) Thank you. Number seven, Representative Roberts. [0:32:41](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1961s) Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um- [0:32:43](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1963s) Mr- [0:32:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1964s) Mr. Speaker. Oh my goodness [0:32:46](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1966s) You were promoted, Mr. Chairman. [0:32:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1968s) It's been a long day. You got a great promotion there. [0:32:51](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1971s) You're a promoted chairman. That's right. I never thought I'd hear that. [0:32:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1974s) I should get the gold star today, 'cause I just gave you a major promotion. [0:32:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1977s) You should. [0:32:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1977s) Okay. Um, s- so you used the example of a classroom. [0:33:03](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1983s) Classroom. [0:33:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=1984s) Um, can you imagine, though, that in a library there could be thousands of publications? And so to compare a, a teacher having control over the books in one classroom, that there might be a difference, um, and that perhaps it sets up a librarian who spends years in school. I mean, we learned from testimony the other day that they have to have a master's in library sciences if the population is over 5,000. [0:33:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2013s) Right. [0:33:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2014s) They have staff that... What if it's a librarian that comes in the first day and has no clue what's on it, and all of the sudden they're having to defend themselves in court with an affirmative defense, and they lose their license is what we also heard. They could lose their license just for being arrested. So this is a pretty, um, big ask when you're talking about larger libraries than a classroom. [0:33:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2039s) I, I hear your concern. [0:34:00](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2040s) Mm-hmm. [0:34:01](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2041s) I point you to line 16. Would you read that for me, please? [0:34:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2047s) I understand. [0:34:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2047s) Well, just read that line. [0:34:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2049s) I've read it multiple times, "Was not aware of such harmful material." [0:34:12](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2052s) Was not aware of such harmful materials. Now, libraries have thousands of volumes. [0:34:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2061s) Mm-hmm. [0:34:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2061s) And we're fortunate, and I would remind the committee that this bill does not ban any material. None. It simply says, "Put children's material in children's sections and adult material in adult sections." And I would suggest that the vast majority of our librarians today have already complied with the intent of this law. [0:34:53](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2093s) And I believe that if a, if a librarian walked in the door and did not know it was harmful, didn't know it was there, they're not culpable. [0:35:05](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2105s) I agree they're not culpable. But can we agree under this bill that they could still be charged and have to defend themselves? [0:35:12](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2112s) Not if, not if they do any of the three options that would have that not apply. So section 1210, 16-12103 would not apply. [0:35:28](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2128s) But someone has to make that decision. And how do you prove a negative that you didn't know? I mean, that, that requires testimony and a judge that makes that decision. [0:35:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2137s) I, I would ask- [0:35:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2137s) I mean, I, I do have one more question I wanna ask you. So put yourselves in their shoes, all right? Big library. I mean, these people, their entire... M- I, my daughter is an archivist in a library in New York. [0:35:53](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2153s) Good. [0:35:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2154s) Um, their entire purpose is to inspire not just people to read, but a love of reading. [0:36:01](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2161s) Absolutely. [0:36:01](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2161s) Right. And so I'm, I'm trying to understand why this, this has a risk of putting their entire livelihood at risk. So you're saying it's not a ban, but can you imagine that if they have to prove they're not aware, or they previously suggested, or they warned, or they communicated, that we're just producing a defense, a prosecution defense file, and that perhaps when there's that many volumes, that this might be overly burdensome on a librarian to know every single volume in there and to put them up for criminal prosecution? [0:36:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2204s) Um, I h- I hear your concern. [0:36:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2207s) I appreciate that. [0:36:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2208s) And I, and I would suggest that, uh, our librarians in their professional judgment have already begun the r- reality of the re- real process of evaluating materials and appropriately shelving. This simply puts the librarian on the same responsibility level that you are on and that I am on. And, and there's no distinction. [0:37:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2240s) We have given, uh, our librarians really greater protection than we do any other citizen. [0:37:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2253s) May I ask one more quick question real quick? [0:37:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2254s) He, he's not going anywhere, so we can follow back up- [0:37:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2257s) Okay [0:37:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2257s) ... here in a little bit. [0:37:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2257s) Okay. [0:37:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2257s) So- Hey, I'm not going anywhere We got, we got, uh, how many more days and nights together? So anyways. [0:37:45](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2265s) One more. [0:37:45](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2265s) Uh, we're gonna take some public comment now. Okay. Uh, Senator, if you want to- Yeah, I'll just slip beside him. Uh- [0:37:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2276s) Just going forward, I have a room full, and I'm so glad to see all of you here regardless of what your position is. Thank y'all for being here. Uh, you don't get this chance up in Washington, DC, uh, very often, but you can just show up here and testify, so thank you for taking the time out of your day regardless of your position. Um, so what I am gonna do though is, just so we can get through here and we won't be here till midnight, you're gonna have one minute, and I'll give a little bit of leeway, but don't let me give you an inch and take a mile. [0:38:30](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2310s) So, uh, I believe we got, uh, Mike Griffin with Georgia Baptist Association, if you wanna come on up. So I'll give you a minute. [0:38:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2322s) Well, being a Baptist preacher, I don't know if I can preach in a minute, but anyway, no, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I want you to know that Georgia Baptists do support this legislation, and we appreciate Senator Burns. We represent 1.2f- 1.4 million Georgians and up to 3,500 churches. We passed a resolution in 2021 entitled Removing School Library Obscenity Exemption. And so we are very much in support of this. I work in child protection policy for our churches, and it's very important 'cause we're in a day now for the first time, Greg Love told me, sent me the information, I've taught six classes around the state, uh, that 52% of our abuse on children now is peer to peer, and accessibility to obscenity increases the temptation and the problems that we have with children. [0:39:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2374s) So we really appreciate this bill, and thank you for your support for it as our, as the committee would consider it, I hope. Thank you. [0:39:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2382s) Thank you. Great [0:39:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2388s) All right. Uh, Paul Smith. [0:39:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2394s) Thank you so much. [0:39:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2394s) No problem. [0:39:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2394s) Just give me a minute. [0:40:00](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2400s) I'm sorry. He, he had to run- [0:40:02](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2402s) Okay [0:40:02](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2402s) ... and Citizen Impact is in support of this legislation, so he wanted me to remind you all of that. [0:40:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2407s) Okay. [0:40:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2407s) I'm sorry. [0:40:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2408s) Okay. Thank you. [0:40:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2408s) This is Citizen Impact discipline. [0:40:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2409s) Thank you. You did have one question, Brother Mike. Okay. [0:40:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2414s) Hi. I- I'm just full of questions- [0:40:15](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2415s) Brother Rob [0:40:18](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2418s) ... today. Um, I was just curious, are, do you know if there are Bibles in the library? [0:40:25](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2425s) This is not the same thing. [0:40:28](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2428s) Well, the, I mean, I can quote sections that talk about rape and incest- [0:40:32](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2432s) Right [0:40:32](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2432s) ... and, and things, and so are those in libraries? [0:40:35](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2435s) Apparently there are some. [0:40:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2437s) Okay. And so would you be in favor of removing that from the shelves of- [0:40:41](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2441s) No, 'cause that's- [0:40:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2442s) ... a public- [0:40:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2442s) ... totally different. That, that's not even in the same category. [0:40:46](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2446s) Okay. [0:40:46](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2446s) Um- [0:40:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2447s) It describes a sexual act [0:40:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2448s) ... well, the, the, the, the state law is not saying that we cannot give children li- Bibles, because what, what the senator's doing here is trying to make sure that the same regulation regarding what I would hand a child on the street is the same thing that you would hand in a library if it violated the code that we have that defines what obscenity is. So I don't think we would wanna ban all the Bibles in s- [0:41:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2480s) I- [0:41:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2480s) ... the state of Georgia [0:41:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2481s) ... wouldn't wanna ban all the Bibles. I promise you- [0:41:22](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2482s) I know, but it's not the same- [0:41:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2484s) ... that it does- [0:41:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2484s) ... thing, the same category you're talking about, in my opinion. But you're welcome to have that view. But ... [0:41:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2491s) Thank you, Brother Mike. [0:41:32](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2492s) Thank you. [0:41:32](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2492s) All right. All right. Next we have, is that Amy Leverett? Did I get that right? [0:41:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2499s) You're right. [0:41:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2500s) Outstanding. Come on up. [0:41:41](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2501s) And I don't know if we're related, but- [0:41:43](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2503s) Oh. Where are your folks from? [0:41:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2504s) Um, well, my husband's from Milledgeville. [0:41:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2507s) Okay. Well, it could be. My, my dad was from over there. He was an only child, but his family was from Milledgeville. [0:41:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2514s) Okay. [0:41:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2514s) And I was Centerville, and I think you might be related. [0:41:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2516s) Maybe. [0:41:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2517s) Ask when you get home. [0:41:58](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2518s) Okay. [0:41:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2519s) We're glad to be of any help. [0:42:01](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2521s) Sorry. I was shocked, so, um... Okay. Well, my name's Amy Leverett, and I'm from Dooly County. So I'm a mother of three, and we are voracious readers. We spend most of our time at bookstores, in the library, just reading all the time. Um, I'm also a former reading teacher, but I'm here because I'm also a former librarian, and I'm in support of this bill and protecting children from sexually explicit material. [0:42:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2551s) So I wanna make perfectly clear this legis- legislation does not in any way ban books, but responsibly moves the books to the adult section, where if a parent wants a book or wants their child to read a certain book, they can still get it. Please pass SB 74 to protect my children, your children, and your grandchildren from explicit materials. Thank you so much for this bill. [0:42:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2577s) With 10 minutes to spare and no questions, thank you, Ms. Leverett. All right. Uh, Ms. Mary Claussen. And if I mispronounce that, I'm all about- ... continuing education, so please educate me. [0:43:13](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2593s) Perfect. Perfect. [0:43:15](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2595s) Go ahead. Just introduce yourself. Tell us where you're from and if you're with anybody. [0:43:19](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2599s) Uh, my name is, uh, Mary Claussen. I'm a mom. I'm a family nurse practitioner, health professional for 40 years, and a Georgia citizen here to hopefully help protect kids from the sexualization that they've experienced, so... [0:43:36](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2616s) 46 seconds left on the timer. [0:43:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2620s) I'm sorry. Does, um, time? I thought you... Okay. You said to go whenever, okay. [0:43:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2622s) No, you don't have to go further. I mean, some people go four seconds- [0:43:43](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2623s) Oh, no, I got a lot. I got a lot. I thought it was three minutes, so I got more than that. [0:43:46](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2626s) Yeah. [0:43:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2627s) Anyway, I noticed this educational sexualization of children when my daughters were in sixth grade public middle school. Their sexuality was discussed, printed up posters all over the middle school. Um, these kids were 11 and 12 years old and were being asked what their sexual preference was. When I iden- identified inappropriate books in the library, I was told that my children did not have to read those books. They could pick another one. When I was told, when I told them about the pornographic stories and pictures on their school-issued laptop, I was told to let the administration know the sites that my kids found, and they would ban them. [0:44:19](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2659s) Um, I spoke up to this about teachers, librarians, principals, and they basically told me, "We'll just have to agree to disagree [0:44:25](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2665s) Um, I pulled the kids out of school and had to use my retirement savings to put them in private school. Um, I started reading and found out about the sexualization of our children. Um, it began with Alfred Kinsey, unscientific abuse, um, data, and that kind of went into all the, um, everybody thinking they should need... They can have all the sexual discussions with children in their books and, and data and stuff. [0:44:46](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2686s) Miss Mary, you've run out of time, but I'll let you give a conclusory- [0:44:50](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2690s) Yeah [0:44:50](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2690s) ... sentence there. [0:44:51](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2691s) You're so sweet. In 2019, 43 states had abstaining exemptions. In 2026, now we only have four states. So, 39 states in the country got rid of their exemptions because of the reasons we all talked about today. Georgia is one of four states that still has the exemption. We've gotta protect our kids. [0:45:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2708s) Thank you. I see no questions. Thank you for being- [0:45:10](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2710s) Thank you [0:45:10](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2710s) ... with us. All right. Uh, let's see. Joseph D'Angelo with Frontline. [0:45:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2724s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I am a minister of 14 years, an attorney, and the current director of the Church Ambassador Network for Frontline. Protecting children is a moral imperative. The scripture reminds us that whoever causes a child to stumble, it would better to have a millstone around their neck and throw them into the ocean. So, with that said, Frontline vehemently supports, strongly supports SB 74. [0:45:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2754s) Georgia law protects minors all over the place, but we're one of four states with an exemption [0:46:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2764s) for librarians. It's a dangerous loophole. So here's what's at stake. Research shows that children's brains aren't fully developed until their mid-20s, meaning they cannot give informed consent to sexually explicit material. Federal courts have held that, that presenting such material creates a hostile learning environment, and the FBI documents that the words and images sexual predators use to groom victims are the same words and images being presented to children in schools and libraries. [0:46:35](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2795s) So let me address really quickly three objections. First, parental rights- [0:46:38](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2798s) Joseph, that was the time where I'll give you a chance to make a conclusory s- uh, sentence. [0:46:43](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2803s) Yes, sir. Parental rights, you shouldn't have to subject all children because you want your children to view these materials. We're not criminalizing librarians in this. This is false, and the exemption historically was meant for librarians to have a- or give access to anatomy kind of material, scientific materials, and not sexually explicit materials for minors. So we respectfully urge you to support. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:47:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2834s) Thank you. Next up, we have Brett, and I can't think of what the last name would be. Is that, this- [0:47:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2841s) Cralle. [0:47:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2841s) Cralle. [0:47:22](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2842s) Cra- Okay. Thank you. Thank you for that. [0:47:25](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2845s) It's Cromie, but that's fine. [0:47:26](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2846s) Cromie. [0:47:26](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2846s) Yeah, yeah. That's it. [0:47:27](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2847s) Okay. Gotcha. Thank you. [0:47:28](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2848s) Thank you. [0:47:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2853s) Ready? [0:47:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2854s) Go ahead. [0:47:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2854s) Great. Uh, I'm a PhD scientist, and, uh, peer-reviewed scientific literature is clear. Exposure to porn leads to dopamine, a neurotransmitter, and that increase leads to increased phosph- gene expression, and this ultimately desensitizes children if they see this material. Uh, Representative Roberts said that librarians are meant to inspire kids to read, which is great, so they should love to prevent this harmful material from the children and, and actually inspire them instead of destroying them. She also questioned if a Bible had language that might be inappropriate. [0:48:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2884s) This is a total red herring. The words in the Bible are in co- in context, are not harmful, and they're so far different from the filth that we've seen in some of these books that they shouldn't, it shouldn't even be dis- dis- discussed. We need to close this loophole to protect children. And most importantly, I want to make sure that this new version actually does close the library loophole versus what happens with a librarian. I want to make sure that the language the way it's written, actually, regardless of a librarian, if a person is outside of a, of a, um, library and they give pornographic material to a child, they're in trouble. [0:48:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2919s) They're going to jail. If they step into a library, they should have the exact same situation, so I want to make sure that that's clear in the law. With, with that, thank you very much. [0:48:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2929s) Thank you. Representative Panitch, you had a question- [0:48:52](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2932s) Oh [0:48:52](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2932s) ... Mr. Cromie? [0:48:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2935s) Sure. [0:48:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2935s) So you would agree with me that one line here or there is not necessarily representative of a whole book. You really need to read things in context. [0:49:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2944s) Of, of course, of course, yes. [0:49:05](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2945s) Okay. [0:49:05](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2945s) So- [0:49:06](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2946s) So the- [0:49:06](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2946s) I, I would... Can I finish? Sorry. [0:49:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2948s) Go ahead. [0:49:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2949s) Um, if someone takes a line out of the Bible or some of these other books, that alone doesn't define whether that book is harmful or not. It's the to- totality of the book. [0:49:19](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2959s) I agree with you. [0:49:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2960s) So, yeah, yeah. [0:49:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2961s) But we, we heard the other day, and I know you were here and you testified. [0:49:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2964s) Yeah. [0:49:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2964s) Let me finish my question now. [0:49:26](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2966s) Sure. [0:49:27](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2967s) You heard individual lines being pulled out- [0:49:30](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2970s) Mm-hmm [0:49:30](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2970s) ... of books- [0:49:30](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2970s) Mm-hmm [0:49:30](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2970s) ... without any sense of what the context was, and people are ready to condemn those books because of that one line or two lines. [0:49:38](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2978s) Right. [0:49:38](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2978s) Right? Right? [0:49:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2979s) Well, some people would, but I- [0:49:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2980s) Right. Some people [0:49:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2980s) ... I would read the whole b- book and condemn the book on the whole book. [0:49:43](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2983s) Okay. You would agree with me that the Bible has very violent imagery- [0:49:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2988s) Sure [0:49:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2988s) ... sexual imagery- [0:49:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2989s) Sure [0:49:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2989s) ... in some parts. [0:49:50](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2990s) Sure. [0:49:51](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2991s) And it's still okay. We should still make it available for kids. [0:49:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2994s) Well, because the Bible- [0:49:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2996s) Yes, well, answer it, and then- [0:49:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2997s) Oh, sorry [0:49:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2997s) ... yes or no. [0:49:58](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2998s) You want me to... [0:49:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=2999s) We should make the Bible available for kids. [0:50:01](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3001s) I, I have no problem with the Bible available for kids because the lessons that are associated with the violence are for good. The concern that we have is the lessons that are associated with the material in these books are not good. [0:50:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3014s) And who makes that decision? [0:50:15](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3015s) Uh, society does. And, and- [0:50:17](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3017s) No. [0:50:18](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3018s) No? Society doesn't? Oh. Well, lawmakers do. Lawmakers do. [0:50:22](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3022s) You're gonna make that for my, that decision for my kids? [0:50:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3024s) I'm not gonna make it for your kids. [0:50:26](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3026s) Well- [0:50:26](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3026s) But the problem is you can't make your decision for my kids. [0:50:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3029s) Right [0:50:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3029s) ... and so therefore, we should err on the side of caution, and we should keep those things out of the children's section. They can be put in the adult section. If you want to take your t- child to the adult section and have them read it, you- By all means, it's, you're the parent, you can do that. But you can't allow it to be in the children's section because then someone else's par- someone else's kid will, might have a chance to read it. [0:50:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3048s) Right, and the parent should be the ultimate decider, right? [0:50:50](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3050s) Well, ultimately yes, they should. [0:50:52](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3052s) Right. [0:50:52](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3052s) Yeah. [0:50:52](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3052s) So a parent who doesn't want their kids to read whatever material- [0:50:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3055s) Sure [0:50:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3055s) ... they don't think is appropriate- [0:50:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3056s) Sure [0:50:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3056s) ... has the obligation to say, "No, I'm not going to be doing it. I'm not gonna allow you to read that." [0:51:02](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3062s) Yeah, a parent can do that, right. [0:51:03](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3063s) Thank you. [0:51:03](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3063s) And a parent, and a parent can do that for a Bible. If there's a Bible in the children's section, a parent can say, "I don't want you to read the Bible." That's their choice. [0:51:10](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3070s) Thank you. [0:51:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3071s) But in the totality of it, the Bible... Okay, great. Thank you. [0:51:16](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3076s) Were you finished? [0:51:17](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3077s) I, oh, I'll just say that again, the Bible, the lessons in the Bible are for good, and the lessons in the books that we have a problem with are not for good. It's just that simple. And the other option is you can always find another state that might have a different opinion, but this is Georgia. So thank you. [0:51:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3093s) Okay. Kristi Green. West Georgia Regional Library System. By way of Macon, I understand. [0:51:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3104s) Yes, today. Thank you, Chairman Smith. I appreciate the opportunity to speak to you today. My name is Kristi Green. I'm the director of the West Georgia Regional Library System. I'm also a longtime resident of Paulding County, and I want to, um, request today, uh, respectfully that you consider amending the language in the bill, um, to delete in line 15, "If the person," and replace lines 16 through 23 with the following, "This code section shall not apply if the person has knowingly failed to comply with the appropriate governing authority's decisions pursuant to request or complaints regarding the harmful materials to minors." See, in our library systems, we have, um, collection development policies that we are expected by our governing boards to follow, and with those policies we also include a materials reconsideration process. [0:52:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3160s) And so in my library system, if a patron, a community member, has issue with a material, they can bring it to the library staff. The library staff give them the materials reconsideration form, which they then complete. [0:52:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3175s) I'll give you a chance to finish. [0:52:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3176s) Okay. Um, once they complete that form, it goes to a committee of librarians. Um, I represent 19 libraries in five counties, and so we have a wide range of urban and rural libraries. And so values and, and, and opinions might differ, um, but they come together and they make a formal decision on whether or not, um, the material should be removed from the library. At that point, the patron is notified, and then if they are unhappy with the process, they can appeal to our governing board. [0:53:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3209s) And I'd like to point out that our governing board is our... The trustees are appointed by their local cities, counties, and boards of education. And so we are all united in the, um, need to protect children and to promote family values and also, um, increase literacy rates. And so through this process, um, we have seen in my system alone instances where we have removed mater- materials and instances where we have kept them. And so far to this point, um, no, no patron, no community member has brought it to the board of trustees. [0:54:05](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3245s) But I like the fact that we can leave the decision to our local governing boards. [0:54:12](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3252s) Thank you, Director. Uh, and thank you for coming out on the front line of defense against Alabama, that they with us here today. Vice Chairman Hong. [0:54:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3264s) The, thank you, Chairman. Oh, I've got a question. I'm sorry. [0:54:27](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3267s) It's okay. It's okay. Um, the process that you just described, is that, does that process apply to all university, all public libraries, all, uh, who does that process- [0:54:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3279s) I cannot speak specifically to school libraries or university libraries. I know that there are similar processes, um, but I can only speak to the public library and our particular processes that we have in place. [0:54:53](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3293s) If I can have a follow-up. Um, so I'm trying to understand that process 'cause I've heard it not just today, but from others about if I have a complaint about a book and I complain to my public library, then I was told that it, there's always a, some kind of a, a governing board that reviews it and then will say yes or no. [0:55:19](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3319s) Correct. [0:55:19](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3319s) And if it's a yes, it needs to be moved to a different section- [0:55:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3324s) Mm-hmm [0:55:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3324s) ... then the librarian will be notified and the librarian has to remove it. [0:55:30](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3330s) Correct. [0:55:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3331s) Or move it to a, a different section. Is that correct? [0:55:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3333s) That's correct. [0:55:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3334s) And- [0:55:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3334s) And we always let the patron know what the result of their materials reconsideration request was. [0:55:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3340s) And, um, but you don't know whether that applies to all public libraries or if that's just what you guys follow? Or- [0:55:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3347s) I believe the majority of public libraries follow this. I can't speak to all 61 public library systems- [0:55:53](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3353s) Okay [0:55:53](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3353s) ... but most libraries would have a policy, or they definitely have a policy, they would have something similar to this in place, um, for them to work through if a challenge came to their library. [0:56:06](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3366s) Okay. Thank you. [0:56:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3368s) Senator, I'm gonna come back to you after just so I can get through. Thank you, Director. [0:56:13](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3373s) All right. Thank you. [0:56:15](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3375s) All right. So let's see. Brenda Heidman. Did I get that right? [0:56:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3381s) Yes, you did. [0:56:22](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3382s) From Columbia County. [0:56:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3384s) Columbia County. [0:56:25](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3385s) Come on down. [0:56:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3391s) Brenda Heidman. Thank you for letting me speak. I'm speaking in support of Senate Bill 74, and for your support as well. Children have the right to be protected and safe as provided in code 16-12-103. Librarians now know they won't be criminalized. Over the past several decades, there's obscene material that has become more offensive and with less regard for quality of reading material, restraints, or age-appropriateness. Librarians only need to go through the children's section of a library, not the whole library. [0:57:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3427s) Parents want and will continue to have the right to decide what their children can read. Senate Bill 74 does not concern LGBTQ issues. Code 16-12-103 never mentions LGBTQ. Senate Bill 74 never bans a book. Parents can simply find the books for their children by going to that section of the library where the books are located. I've read Bible studies for children, written for children. Those stories are about goodness and not sex, and are benign. [0:57:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3462s) As a child gets older, other Bible topics can be introduced. Thank you for your support of SB 74 and for ensuring the library is a safe and decent place for all Georgia children. Thank you. [0:57:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3476s) Thank you very much. All right. Next up we have JC Ebenier. [0:58:05](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3485s) And please make sure I got that right. [0:58:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3487s) It's JC Ebenier. [0:58:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3489s) Ebenier, okay. [0:58:10](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3490s) Mm-hmm. [0:58:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3491s) Just let us know where you're from. [0:58:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3494s) Okay. Um, I'm JC Ebenier. I'm from DeKalb County, Georgia. Um, and I'm a first year public s- policy student at Georgia Tech. Uh, I'm a member of the Georgia Youth Justice Coalition, and this is my first time testifying in a committee hearing. I've been an avid reader my entire life. In 2024, 41% of Georgia students were below basic reading levels. It worries me that we know this and are considering a bill that might take more books off the shelves despite our students already falling so far behind in reading. Ultimately, this bill is anti-literacy because it will obstruct students from reading and create legal steps for the devoted librarians who make reading possible. [0:58:52](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3532s) Literacy is a gateway to an abundance of opportunity, and as a student, I feel we should be doing all we can to support our librarians and to widen exposure to books, not limit it. The research says that lifelong literacy must include reading materials that are engaging, relatable, and representative to develop reading stamina and enjoyment. I know that the librarians who have made libraries the vibrant com- community spaces they are all across our state are part of what's made me the reader, student, and person I am today. [0:59:23](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3563s) And I stayed in Georgia for higher education and plan to stay here after graduation, and I know many of us share the hope to see more students able to do the same. I urge you all to vote no for Senate Bill 74 today. Thank you. [0:59:35](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3575s) Thank you, JC. And good luck in your studies over at the North Avenue Trade School. [0:59:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3579s) Thank you. [0:59:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3589s) All right. If I'd have give... Or if I'd been asked, I'd give permission before. However, we don't allow recording of this. It's recorded publicly already. You're more than welcome to go back on, uh, YouTube once they upload it, but there'll be no recording currently. Next time just ask us before. Usually don't have a problem with that, but it is recorded publicly already, so thank you for understanding. Uh, next up we've got Laura Snyder. [1:00:22](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3622s) Pretty sure I got that last name right. [1:00:24](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3624s) Yeah. [1:00:25](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3625s) Okay. [1:00:28](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3628s) Hi. My name's Laura Snyder, and I'm with Authors Against Book Bans. Um, and it's funny to be here today because nine years ago I was here with this book with Ms. Sandra Deal, who had personally selected it to take it around the state of Georgia to visit pre-sch- pre-K schools. So that's where we were nine years ago, and the reason I bring this up is that this book is now being banned around the country because there are two characters in it who live together whose names are Mr. Eric and Mr. Michael. And the reason I say this is people like to make a lot of the really racy, edgy YA books. [1:00:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3659s) They pull out lines here and there, but all books, all books are affected by this. I have multiple books that are banned. One is a fairy tale with a kissing scene 'cause Sleeping Beauty is in it. One isn't kept in elementary schools but gets pushed up to middle schools for proper placement because there's a menstruation scene and a, and a, a girl has her period for the first time. So I just wanna say that, like, it's a question of who makes the decisions about these books, but it's also a question of who they'll be in a year or two or three. We've all seen a lot of change in the world in the last 10 years, and I don't know who will, who will be making these decisions down the road. [1:01:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3691s) And this is, this really is a slippery slope. We lose one bit of ground, we get... We lose more ground, and I'm getting to a place now where, like, I'm... So I'm an author and all of my friends are authors and I've worked on, like, programming festivals and things like that. People won't go to Florida anymore. I don't get school visits out of state because I'm understood to be a problematic author. This is affecting my livelihood. It's affecting bookstores. It's affe- Like, all of this, the libraries ripple into everything and so do the schools. So thank you for your time. I appreciate it. [1:01:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3719s) Thank you. All right. Next I have... You're good. Thank you. Uh, let's see. Pamela, is that Ehrhart? Earnhart? [1:02:13](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3733s) It's Eckhardt. [1:02:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3734s) Eckhardt, okay. You can tell who I pulled for in NASCAR. [1:02:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3741s) Hi. Thank, thank you so much. I'm just, um... I do have a non- My name is Pamela Eckhardt. Uh, I go by Phoebe. Most people know me by Phoebe. Um, I have a nonprofit for children, Just For Children, and the reason I haven't done very much with that because, um, you know, it just, I don't have the e- um, money right now, but I'm very concerned about children and what's going on with children and, um- It appears that, um, we need SB74 so very badly, and it's, to me, it's because a lot of what's going on with children is grooming them for sex trafficking, and I've seen that a lot, and it's, um, going on in Georgia. [1:03:16](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3796s) And so I would just so appreciate if you would please pass this bill. Thank you. [1:03:22](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3802s) Thank you. And what part of Georgia were you from? [1:03:25](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3805s) I, I, I live in Milton. [1:03:27](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3807s) Okay. Good deal. [1:03:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3809s) Milton, Georgia. [1:03:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3809s) Used to be a county unto itself at one time, if I'm not, uh, mistaken, that along with Campbell. Might not be a bad idea to go back. [1:03:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3819s) Whoo. [1:03:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3819s) All right. All right. Okay. I know there are some others that had testified at the other subcommittee me- or at the subcommittee meeting. I'm gonna ask you this. Is your testimony going to change or differentiate between now and then? [1:03:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3837s) No. [1:03:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3837s) Okay. All right. Yes, ma'am. If you'll come up and introduce yourself. [1:04:06](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3846s) And remember, there's one minute. [1:04:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3849s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Could I give this to you to pass out? [1:04:13](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3853s) Sure. [1:04:13](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3853s) Some information I would like to share. My name is Martha Scoggins. I, I live in, uh, uh, Dahlonega, Lumpkin County, Georgia, and I'm also a retired project management professional. My questions today are, do you want your five to 10-year-old masturbating, or do you want them to see that displayed in a book or other type of media? Do you want your 11 to 17-year-old having a sex life, an active sex life? [1:04:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3884s) The library classification of ages does not coincide with the American Psychological Association definition of age classifications. Clearly, a lot of the material that is in children's section and young adult sections, according to the American Psychological Association, those children are not able of comprehending that material, and the material really should be moved to a different section. [1:05:18](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3918s) I think it is appropriate to teach, uh, children the names of their, their body parts. That's imperative. Save the other details for when parents, so that they can determine if the child is old enough to comprehend what is being taught or displayed. Codify human development stages so librarians and library personnel can place media in its appropriate classification. [1:05:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3949s) Thank you very much. Thank you for coming all that way, too. Yes, ma'am. Believe you were next. [1:05:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3957s) Me? [1:05:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3957s) Yes, ma'am. [1:06:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=3969s) Hi. My name is Alexa Fink, and, um, I'm just a citizen advocate. I'm not paid to be here. Just here because I'm a mom and I care about children and protecting minors in Georgia. I just wanted to, um, highlight the current obscenity law exempts librarians and libraries from distributing pornographic materials to minors, and the problem with that, aside from the fact that it unfairly protects one group, making them above the law, it also creates a legal pathway for bad actors in bad faith to legally insert harmful books and materials on our shelves, and it's not just physical libraries that we're talking about. [1:06:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4004s) Um, we're also talking about digital e-books and databases that are on our kids' school-issued devices. You may not know that your kid comes home with a school-issued device. They have a library portal on there that they can go into, and they can get all kinds of content and material that are not suited for their age. And not only that, um, they were called out for being on the top 12 dirty dozen entities for sexually exploiting chil- children, and that's EBSCO. Um, and the National Center on Exploitation called them out for that. [1:07:15](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4035s) They're making strides, but there is still pornographic material, and also they have advertising sites that will send you to porn sites. They advertise for porn sites on those e-books as well. Just wanna let parents be aware. [1:07:28](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4048s) Thank you. [1:07:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4049s) Thank you. [1:07:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4051s) All right. Next, I had Brandon Blue with ACLU Georgia. [1:07:41](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4061s) That's amazing. [1:07:41](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4061s) Did I mess that up? [1:07:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4062s) No. No, it, uh, my, my colleague was just playing a fun joke. My name's Brandi Blue. [1:07:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4069s) Okay. [1:07:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4074s) One second. [1:07:58](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4078s) Okay. Good afternoon, Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Brandi Blue. I am a legislative fellow with the ACLU of Georgia. In the short time I have with you today, there's really one main point that I'd like to make about this bill. As we've seen here today and in past sessions, people are using the words obscene and pornographic and harmful all interchangeably, but in fact, that is an error. I would like to draw a clear distinction between how Georgia views obscene material versus how they oppose harmful material, which is what is specified in this bill. [1:08:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4114s) Georgia law already protects minors against obscenity and pornography. Obscenity has little First Amendment prote- protection and is barred in our libraries. Children are not exposed to pornography in Georgia's libraries. This bill, however, goes beyond obscenity and affects material anyone could deem harmful, which is a variable standard that completely depends on the views of the reader. So with that in mind, we would like to request the committee to vote no on this bill. [1:09:03](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4143s) Thank you very m- Uh... Vice Chairman Hong. [1:09:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4151s) Thank you, Chairman. Um, I have a motion if whenever- [1:09:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4154s) Okay [1:09:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4154s) ... is the right time. [1:09:15](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4155s) Well, I'll entertain it. [1:09:17](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4157s) Move to pass. [1:09:18](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4158s) Second. [1:09:18](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4158s) Okay. [1:09:18](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4158s) All right, I got a move to pass. [1:09:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4160s) Second. [1:09:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4161s) You got a second? All right. Uh, amendments, Vice Chairman Hong? [1:09:26](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4166s) Yes, I have a proposed amendment. [1:09:29](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4169s) Senator, you can come down here again. Go ahead, Vice Chair. [1:09:35](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4175s) Um, I'm gonna pass it out, but I'd like to delete on line 15, delete, "If the person," and replace lines 16 to 23 with, "1. This code section shall not apply if the person has knowingly failed to comply with the appropriate governing authority's decisions pursuant to requests or complaints regarding the harmful materials to minors." Um, I believe that we have passed legislation which required, um, local boards to come up with a procedure for book complaints before. [1:10:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4221s) And so I believe that there is an appropriate governing authority when it comes to any type of requests or complaints to either remove, which I know that's not really the senator's, um, intention, but to reshelve, um, certain harmful material or obscene material- ... uh, books. And so the process I understand is that when somebody makes a complaint, it's not up to the librarian to just say, "I'm gonna make that decision for myself," but however it goes to a governing authority, they make the decision and the librarian has to follow that decision. [1:11:01](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4261s) If the librarian decides not to follow that, then they will be liable pursuant to this exception that we are proposing. So that is my amendment. [1:11:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4271s) One moment. I apologize for not having caught this earlier. Members of the audience, the, the space for y'all to be here is not behind the members, so I'd just ask if y'all, uh, either scoot over, um, where you're not directly behind members. [1:11:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4291s) Sorry for just now catching that. All right. Senator. [1:11:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4294s) Uh, uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, uh, I, I appreciate, uh, Representative Hong's, uh, recommendation. I'd like to just speak to the amendment briefly. [1:11:41](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4301s) Sure. [1:11:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4302s) Um, I wa- I just need clarification on the, the, the two nots, okay? So if I read it correctly, "Provisions of code Section 16-12-10- 103 shall not apply to public libraries operated by the state or any of its political subdivisions or to any library operated as a part of any of the school, college or university." And if we adopt the amendment, then we get a de- second not, "This code section shall not apply if the person has knowingly failed to comply with the appropriate governing authority's decisions pursuant to requests or complaints regarding this." So, [1:12:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4340s) section, um, 16-12-104 says the librarians will, will not have to be subject to 16-12-103, and then this says they would not not have to apply, which means they would have to apply. Is that correct? [1:12:36](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4356s) I, I think you caught that. Um, w- I went through several drafts of this. So what we can do is, um, instead on line 15, uh, remove the colon after person- [1:12:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4367s) Yes [1:12:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4368s) ... and insert, "After the person has knowingly failed to comply with the appropriate governing authority's decisions pursuant to requests or complaints regarding the harmful materials to minors." [1:13:02](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4382s) Uh, uh, thank you. I appreciate the clarification. [1:13:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4384s) Okay. [1:13:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4384s) Uh, a quick follow-up, Mr. Chairman. I, I, I certainly accept the will of the committee, and I find the, um, suggested amendment, um, reasonable and acceptable. I, I do have a question. I'd like to, to thank, uh, Ms. Greene for bringing the, the information from the West Georgia Regional Library System. My question is the board that makes the decision, the board that would do the review and would make the decision, what training do they receive to make an informed decision and does that training include information and understanding of 16-12-103? [1:13:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4427s) Because if we open it up to a, to a non, uh, to a board to make a decision on whether it's appropriate or not, I'm comfortable with that, and I appreciate the fact that this is a, a board of, of the community. It represents the values of the community. My concern is I wanna make sure that when the board makes the decision, they understand the law, and the law is 16-12-103. [1:14:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4461s) Vice Chairman Hong. [1:14:23](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4463s) Um, so I don't know who, who the board, it consists of. However, to my knowledge there is a board. And so therefore it's, I don't think the librarians can make the decision of, "Yes, this is harmful. Yes, it's... No, it's not." They have to refer it to the board, I, based on the process- [1:14:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4487s) I, I- [1:14:47](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4487s) ... I have is, is my understanding. [1:14:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4489s) Right. And I don't disagree with that. [1:14:50](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4490s) Okay. [1:14:51](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4491s) I think what, what I would like to see is if we're going to make this adjustment, which I'm comfortable with, I would like to include the re- expectation that the board who, whatever group, review board that makes this decision is trained and that that training includes a clear understanding of Georgia law, specifically 16-12-103 [1:15:18](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4518s) Um, and I, and so we have, and I'm trying to read it, there was Senator Anna Tantarte had a bill, um, SB- [1:15:30](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4530s) Senator Anna Tantarte? [1:15:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4531s) Yes. [1:15:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4531s) Yes. [1:15:31](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4531s) SB 226, which- [1:15:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4533s) Yes, 226. [1:15:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4534s) Yeah, which, um, essentially required this local board of education to adopt complaint resolution policies for local systems, et cetera. So there is a whole process of, um, designating a board, et cetera. I, I don't know off the bat whether that actually included specifics, um, of what kind of training the, the board members had. [1:16:03](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4563s) I don't, yeah, I don't think- [1:16:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4564s) So, so I think if that's the case, I, I agree with you. I think that's a good idea. [1:16:07](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4567s) I, I don't think we have to make it, uh, an elaborate statement. I just think there needs to be an acknowledgement that whatever review panel or board makes the decision about whether it's acceptable or not, that they have reasonable training and that that includes training in Georgia law, Georgia obscenity law. Is that okay? [1:16:28](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4588s) I, I am okay with that, and if you, um, if you wanna come up with language- [1:16:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4594s) I, I, that's- [1:16:34](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4594s) ... I can help you with it. [1:16:35](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4595s) It's, it's easy to say. I, I'm not a member of the committee, but I would ask that we, as opposed to not ensuring that the decision-making process for the, for the library or the library region, just to have, have reasonable understanding and preparation to make the decision. That's all. Uh, pulling from historical context, how many people remem- or were on that committee that passed this bill that Senator Anna Tantarte had, uh, what there's- It- For, uh- [1:17:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4628s) Education. [1:17:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4629s) Uh. [1:17:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4629s) It was the state senate. [1:17:09](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4629s) Okay. We, we had another bill- I don't think ... concerning obscene material in this committee. [1:17:14](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4634s) I was- [1:17:15](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4635s) I think we thoroughly vetted that, uh, probably 2021 or- Yeah. [1:17:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4640s) This is a different- [1:17:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4641s) '22. Yep. [1:17:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4641s) This is a different material. [1:17:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4641s) '22. Okay. [1:17:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4641s) It's a different standard. [1:17:23](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4643s) All right. And, and, and I would, I would say, I would, I would point out to the committee that, uh, my understanding of current code section 16-12-103, it, it, it explicitly defines what is inappropriate and harmful material. Okay. But meantime, we are current posture on this bill dealing with an amendment from Vice Chairman, uh, Senator... Yeah, go ahead. [1:17:54](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4674s) I just want to know, this is really for, um, Representative Hong, uh, Vice Chairman Hong. I- is this the amendment that my good friend from Paulding County, is this basically what the- [1:18:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4684s) Yes [1:18:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4684s) ... director said? [1:18:06](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4686s) It's, I don't think it's exact language, but it's, uh, the- [1:18:10](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4690s) Very similar? [1:18:10](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4690s) Pretty similar. [1:18:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4691s) Okay. [1:18:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4691s) Correct. [1:18:12](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4692s) Essentially. Essentially. Okay. We're gonna come back to this. We're gonna let them work on some language- Okay ... because I don't want to go back and forth debating on language that's already needing to change. Right. So what we're gonna do is on pause, and we're gonna go on to House Bill 57. Uh, Representative Cameron, my good friend from the far northwest corners of the- [1:18:32](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4712s) Far reaches [1:18:33](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4713s) ... far reaches. First line of defense against Tennessee. [1:18:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4717s) And Alabama, no less. [1:18:39](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4719s) I'll cover both. [1:18:40](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4720s) He's got a, he's got a doubly bad reputation. [1:18:42](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4722s) Yeah. Go ahead. [1:18:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4724s) Thank you. Uh, HB 57, thank you, uh, M- [1:18:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4729s) I have a member of this House that is testifying on that bill. The same person that called him to do this. [1:18:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4736s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, committee, for having me. Uh, this bill is a bill that I passed previously in the House. It is a bill that emanates from a case in the North, uh, West Georgia area, where a, uh, young lady was, uh, taken advantage of by her step-grandfather. And because her age, I believe she was 17 at the time, they could not prosecute her for, uh, couldn't get her statutory rape, so they were gonna process un- or, uh, prosecute under the incest law. And the incest law has a, uh, no mission where step-grandparents, step-grandchildren relationship is not covered. [1:19:32](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4772s) So that's, that's all I want to cover. [1:19:35](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4775s) Okay. Mr. Chairman, go. [1:19:37](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4777s) Yep. I think we reviewed this before, uh, in previous year, but I would like to make a motion at this appropriate time. [1:19:44](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4784s) I don't, I don't see anybody signed up for or against. [1:19:51](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4791s) Okay. Do you have a question? [1:19:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4795s) No. [1:19:55](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4795s) Okay. I don't have time. [1:19:56](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4796s) Motion to pass. [1:19:57](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4797s) Uh, move to pass. [1:19:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4799s) Second. [1:19:59](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4799s) Motion passes. Uh, motion second due pass. All those in favor say aye. [1:20:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4804s) Aye. [1:20:04](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4804s) All those opposed, same sign. Congratulations. If you'll get me the ruling form. [1:20:11](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=4811s) We will, we'll stand at ease for 10 minutes. [1:48:12](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6492s) All right. [1:48:16](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6496s) Everybody come back to order. All right. Thank you for your patience. Senator, we're very close. There's just a few more things we're gonna have to iron out. So what we're gonna do is we're gonna schedule a committee meeting upon adjournment tomorrow- [1:48:36](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6516s) Okay [1:48:36](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6516s) ... of the House. Uh, I don't anticipate the Senate going too far tomorrow. But anyways, uh, we will schedule another full committee meeting for tomorrow upon adjournment of the House. [1:48:48](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6528s) Very good. [1:48:49](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6529s) Probably put a 30-minute to 45-minute increment so everybody can get something to eat. Don't want anybody falling out. So, uh, at this point, we're gonna get our heads around this, Senator, and, uh, we're gonna try to perfect this 'cause there's a lot of nuances that we're gonna hash out. So- [1:49:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6548s) Okay [1:49:08](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6548s) ... at this time, we are adjourned until the House adjourns session tomorrow, Friday, February the 6th. With that, y'all have a good evening. [1:49:19](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6559s) Thank you. [1:49:20](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6560s) Amen. [1:49:21](https://vimeo.com/1162300445#t=6561s) See you tomorrow. Thank you. Thanks, committee.