--- title: Senate State and Local Governmental Operations Committee, February 5, 2026 collection: meetings id: 2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations cite_as: Senate State and Local Governmental Operations Committee, February 5, 2026, video https://vimeo.com/1161226073 (machine transcript by Georgia Commons) canonical_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations md_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations.md text_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations/text source_url: https://vimeo.com/1161226073 date: 2026-02-05 status: machine transcript corpus_version: meetings-2026-10-23-8c15ead0f18d license: Machine transcript and summaries by Georgia Commons from the General Assembly's public video; the video stays on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel; see about.md publisher: Georgia Commons, an independent project of Georgia Civic Data. Not the State of Georgia. Not legal advice. up: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05.md previous: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-urban-affairs.md next: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/house-judiciary.md index: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/index.md chamber: Senate body: Senate State and Local Governmental Operations Committee body_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations.md meeting_kind: committee session: 2025-2026 Regular Session start_time: 2026-02-05T14:00:00-05:00 location: MEZZ 1 duration_seconds: 5954.0 video_id: 1161226073 video_title: 02/05/2026 Senate Committee on State and Local Government Operations agenda_url: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/senate/SLGOAgenda2.5.26.pdf bills_discussed: - SB 301 - SB 437 - SB 447 summaries_model: gpt-6.1-sol transcript_turns: 440 transcript_chars: 97523 parts: - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations.md?start=0 - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations.md?start=59624 --- # Senate State and Local Governmental Operations Committee, February 5, 2026 Senate State and Local Governmental Operations Committee; February 5, 2026; 2025-2026 Regular Session. Video, on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel: https://vimeo.com/1161226073. Agenda: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/senate/SLGOAgenda2.5.26.pdf. > This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays. ## Summary written by Georgia Commons Written by gpt-6.1-sol from the transcript below. It is not part of the record. Quote the transcript or the video, not the summary. The committee approved a substitute for [SB 301](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb301), concerning protections for monuments, by a 3-1 vote. Members then held a lengthy hearing on [SB 437](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb437), concerning private building inspections, virtual inspections and shorter review deadlines. Supporters described potential time and cost savings, while members and local-government witnesses raised concerns about safety, oversight and deadlines for complex projects. No vote was taken, and the chair said the committee would return to it at the next meeting. The committee postponed [SB 447](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb447) until the following week without hearing a presentation. ## Bills discussed (3) Each account was written by gpt-6.1-sol from the stretch of the transcript it names. The bill's number is said in that stretch, unless it was the only bill on a committee's agenda. ### SB 301. State Flag, Seal, and Other Symbols; protection of government statues, monuments, plaques, banners, and other commemorative symbols; revise provisions [SB 301](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb301) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [0:17:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1041s), turns 2 to 36. The sponsor said the bill would clarify existing monument protections and address enforcement gaps. The sponsor described a public notice and input process for local governments seeking to remove unwanted monuments, relocation options, and court orders to stop unlawful actions before damage occurs. The sponsor also said the bill would create a statewide monument registry, protect privately owned monuments on public land without changing ownership, and explicitly authorize enforcement by the attorney general and district attorneys. According to the sponsor, misdemeanor liability would apply only to individuals, not firms or other entities. The sponsor cited recent monument defacement and damage in Athens and a historic cemetery in Milledgeville as reasons for the changes. The sponsor thanked the Association of County Commissioners of Georgia for working on the proposal. The committee approved the substitute by a 3-1 vote. ### SB 437. State Building, Plumbing, and Electrical Codes; acknowledgement of an applicant's use of a private professional provider to conduct a plan review or inspection; provide [SB 437](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb437) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [0:22:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1334s), turns 37 to 437. The sponsor said the bill would shorten a 30-day review period to 10 days, clarify private inspections, allow optional virtual inspections, halve government fees when private providers are used, and standardize forms through the Department of Community Affairs. The sponsor argued that faster approvals would reduce costs. Asked whether local governments could reject a qualified private inspector, the sponsor said no. Georgia Realtors supported reducing delays, and a Home Builders Association of Georgia witness said private inspections could save two to three weeks per house. A private-provider witness described live contractor-held cameras, location checks, digital records, registration and liability protections. Members questioned fraud risks, inspector independence, out-of-state accountability and whether comprehensive virtual inspections protect safety. Several favored in-person initial inspections. An ACCG witness raised local-control concerns and requested more time. A Building Officials Association of Georgia witness said complex projects require other agencies’ reviews first, inspectors are certified rather than licensed, and virtual inspection records are not required. That witness supported only limited virtual uses and questioned whether local choice was clear. Members discussed 15 business days, restricting the bill to single-family homes or smaller projects, and preparing a substitute. No amendment or bill vote occurred. The chair designated the discussion a hearing only and deferred further consideration to the next meeting. ### SB 447. Control of Soil Erosion and Sedimentation; denial or nonacceptance of permits; revise provisions [SB 447](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/sb447) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [1:38:26](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5906s), turns 439 to 439. The chair said work with the Georgia Municipal Association and ACCG had addressed many concerns, but did not explain the bill’s provisions. Citing limited time and another committee waiting to meet, the chair postponed the bill until the following week. No presentation, debate or vote occurred. > The transcript runs 97,523 characters. A reader that cannot take it at once can read it in 2 parts: part 1 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations.md?start=0; part 2 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-05/senate-state-and-local-governmental-operations.md?start=59624. ## Transcript (440 turns) [0:16:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1002s) Senator Williams, would you lead us in a prayer before we get started? [0:16:46](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1006s) Will. Pray with me, please. Dear Heavenly Father, thank you again for the many blessings and opportunities you've bestowed upon each and every one of us, dear Lord. Dear Lord, please bless our first responders, our law officers, and our men and women in harm's way every day, dear Lord. Please bless the people of Israel, and give us the courage and knowledge and wisdom to carry out the duties that we're sworn to uphold. In thy name we pray, amen. [0:17:15](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1035s) Amen. Thank you. First bill we have on the agenda today is SB 301. Back to Senator Williams. [0:17:26](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1046s) Do you want me to go through the title? [0:17:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1047s) Whatever you prefer. [0:17:31](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1051s) Are you gonna invite me in? I'm gonna invite, uh, and I might need to introduce him. I'm not sure if, uh, many people realize who this man is. [0:17:46](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1066s) That's good. Unknown man with a very good tie. [0:17:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1070s) Well, it's my, it's my... I spilt cartoon on it today. [0:17:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1073s) Please state your name. [0:17:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1077s) Uh, putting in time. Jeff, Jeff Mallow, so I'm proud to be here today. [0:18:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1082s) Thank you for coming. [0:18:03](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1083s) Thank you. [0:18:03](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1083s) Look at this badge. [0:18:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1085s) I like it. [0:18:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1086s) Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Chairman. [0:18:07](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1087s) Wait, which bill are we talking about? [0:18:09](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1089s) 301. This, this bill has been into effect some time and, uh, as someone who has installed monuments and all over the, our community and several counties, and I realize the importance of what they cost, what they, uh, entail, and what they represent. And, uh, this bill just, uh, clarifies and cleans up existing laws so that Georgia's monument protection statute works the way the courts intended and the general assembly intended. [0:18:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1122s) And, uh, it's a very simple bill. It just clears up some, uh, uh, questions. Uh, it clarifies criminal liability by making clear that only individuals, not firms or entities can commit a misdemeanor under this law. Local governments are given a clear, transparent process to remove unwanted monuments, including notice, public input, and relocation options. Also, it restores con- injunctive relief, allowing courts to stop illegal actions early instead of forcing costly, drawn-out litigation after damage occurs. [0:19:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1163s) A statewide monument registry is created to improve transparency, record-keeping, and compliance across agencies. It strengthens protections for monuments on public property, including rare privately owned monuments located on public land without transferring ownership. This bill gives a clear authority to the attorney general and local district attorneys to enforce the law if they choose, ensuring accountability. [0:19:54](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1194s) And just read in the paper just a couple of days ago, I think a monument in Clarke County was defaced, uh, there in Athens at UGA. So, uh, this is happening more and more, and we just need to outline penalties and what can be done to strengthen this. Thank you. [0:20:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1214s) Thank you. We, we, uh, passed this bill many years ago, and in, and in fact, the lieutenant governor signed the bill as well, and, uh, just found some, uh, loopholes we kinda need to clean up today. And, you know, it takes care of all monuments, including the ones in the cemetery for that matter. [0:20:40](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1240s) Senator, you've had some experience with monuments in cemeteries a f- a little bit. [0:20:45](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1245s) Yes, I do. Uh, matter of fact, I talked to my s- one of my sons earlier this morning. A monument had gotten knocked over in a historic cemetery in Milledgeville, and our people were going with our crane truck and to re-erect this monument that was purposely knocked over and defaced. So, uh, yeah, this, this is something that's happening more and more, whether it's vandals or just idiots, I don't know. And this bill gives an opportunity for the city or the county to have the, uh, the monument, if it's not something that is something they want, uh, replaced or be moved somewhere else. [0:21:26](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1286s) So there's another opportunity here for that. [0:21:29](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1289s) Thank you. Senator Ginn, you got a question? [0:21:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1292s) Uh, Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time, I'd like to move due pass on LC280736S. [0:21:39](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1299s) It would be appropriate. We got a motion and a second for due pass. All in favor, raise your hand. Any opposed? [0:21:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1308s) And one more thing, I'd- [0:21:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1309s) Motion passes three, one. [0:21:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1310s) I'd like to thank the Association of County Commissioners for working with us on this to make it, uh, uh, more pleasing to them as well. All right. [0:21:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1318s) Who? [0:21:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1319s) Association of County Commissioners, ACCG. [0:22:04](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1324s) And also, I got permission from my sons. [0:22:08](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1328s) Hey, what, what was your name again? [0:22:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1331s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:22:12](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1332s) Thank you. [0:22:12](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1332s) Thank you. Thank you, committee. [0:22:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1334s) Thank you. Moving on, uh, the next bill we'll take up is SB3... Uh, I'm sorry, not three, 437. That is one that I am carrying. [0:22:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1358s) Jeff Mallow on SB437. [0:23:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1386s) Good afternoon. Um, I'll be presenting SB 337. Uh, what this bill does, it's, uh, it's for clarification for third-party inspections. [0:23:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1398s) 430, yeah, I keep saying three for some reason. I keep wanting to go back to three. But thank you, yeah, 437. Um, it, it provides clarification for third-party, third-party inspections, um, and also provides for virtual options dealing with inspections. Existing statute for third-party plan review and inspections, uh, it, it already exists. Uh, currently, there's a 30-day timeframe from when it's, uh, applied or when the, uh, permit is applied for. [0:23:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1429s) Uh, this bill would take that from 30 days to 10 days. Uh, it also op- it gives an option for a virtual inspection. Um, it is not mandated that a municipality do virtual inspections. It is just an option. Now, there's 17 states that are currently doing virtual inspections. Uh, here in Georgia, uh, there are three municipalities that I know of that are doing, uh, some form of virtual inspections. It'd be the city of Atlanta, uh, DeKalb County, and Gwinnett County. Uh, and these types of inspections, I've, I've heard some concerns from, from members. [0:24:24](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1464s) Uh, these type of inspections are done on the... It's visual inspections, like when you're do- dealing with, like, a roof inspection or a framing inspection, things of that nature. If it's a mechanical type, uh, thing, like you're dealing with, you know, your HVAC where you gotta plug something in and get a reading, that would have to be done in person. [0:24:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1483s) And if, uh, if the applicant, uh, decides to go with a third party, it would cut the governmental fees to 50% of the total fee. Uh, they're not doing the work that they normally would do, and it, it's still, I believe, very fair, uh, them being compensated at 50%. Um, it also, uh, creates one standard on the DCA website instead of many different forms and procedures. This just cuts red tape and streamline the process. [0:25:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1516s) This is something, um... And that, that's basically all that the, the, the bill does. This is something that's been needed in the industry for quite some time. There's plenty of good actors, uh, with local municipalities, but there are some municipalities that do intentionally drag their feet, uh, for one reason or another. Uh, and when you're in the home building or the development business, uh, you know, time is money and, you know, that interest clock. The bank still collects their note every month and, and that clock continues to tick. So I believe these updates would help cut red tape and regulations, speed that process along, and also help the affordability process that we're facing here in the state of Georgia and, frankly, across the United States. [0:25:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1557s) We've also, we've got, um, we've got some folks that wanna speak today. So do we have any? [0:26:09](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1569s) Can I ask a question, Mr. Chairman? [0:26:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1571s) Sure. Go ahead, Senator Ginn. You had a question? [0:26:15](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1575s) Yeah. Uh, yes, Mr. Chairman. You, you said that a couple counties are actually doing this right now. And if it's not mandated, I think you mentioned that it's not mandated that a local government do this, the, uh, uh, if they're doing it, is it... What's the purpose of the bill if they're already doing it in certain counties? If they want, if counties wanna do it, can more counties do it, or what's... Uh, I'm trying to understand if you... 'Cause you said you're, you're not mandating that counties do this. [0:26:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1601s) It would be their choice if they- [0:26:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1602s) Or cities. [0:26:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1603s) Right. [0:26:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1603s) The, uh... So if some counties are already doing it, what's, what is the bill actually, you know, that... I'm trying to understand. Okay, we already got some that are doing it, so what's the, what's the point? [0:26:54](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1614s) Yeah. It, it would basically codify in law and set those standards for it. [0:26:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1618s) So speed things up? [0:26:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1619s) And speed it up. [0:27:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1620s) Okay. That's, so that's what we're hunting there, speed it up. [0:27:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1625s) Any... Go ahead. Mr. Wipp. [0:27:07](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1627s) Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Mr. Chairman, I've, I've noticed, uh, reading the summary of the bill, you've done some, um, aggressive corrections, and I was wondering if you got any feedback from, um, GMA or ACCG that they were concerned about any of this stuff. [0:27:24](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1644s) Uh, yes. Yeah, I've had, uh, several meetings. Um, and we've got them on the list. Once we get through questions, I'll, I'll have them come up and- [0:27:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1650s) And that's good. And if one thing too, if I could get a definition of a convenience fee in, in relation to this legislation. [0:27:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1657s) Mm-hmm. [0:27:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1658s) Because, uh, having worked in local government for over 31 years, I found that bureaucracy does not offer anything convenient- ... to the taxpayer, and I, and I wish I was, I wish I was being funny. Um, which I've never understood why our government's not open on Saturday when everybody's off work, but we're definitely open during the hours when they have to be at work, and they can't come and do the things they need to do, um, to get things like this done. So I, I appreciate this legislation. I look forward to getting the, for that definition and listening to those other parties. [0:28:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1691s) Absolutely. [0:28:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1691s) Thank you. [0:28:12](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1692s) Thank you, Senator. Any further comments, questions? [0:28:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1701s) Mr., Mr. Chairman, may- maybe I need to hear from some of the witnesses, but am I to understand you're basically trying to streamline the, the inspection process, and if the county or city or municipality is dragging their feet on the inspection, the private individuals can get their own inspector, get the inspection done, but you gotta give the municipality or governmental entity notice, and they must acknowledge within five days. If they don't, if they do not acknowledge within that five days, what happens? [0:28:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1730s) If they do not acknowledge within the five days? [0:28:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1733s) That you're going to use a private individual or what happens one way or the other? [0:29:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1740s) Well, once you, once you give a notice, then after that five days, you can use that third party. [0:29:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1745s) Okay. If, if they don't want you to use a third party, can they refuse you to use a third party, I guess is w- where I'm going? [0:29:13](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1753s) No, not as long as it's a licensed- [0:29:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1754s) Okay [0:29:15](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1755s) ... individual. [0:29:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1756s) All right. And, uh- [0:29:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1759s) Oh [0:29:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1759s) ... it, is the city of Atlanta here to speak on this, or the municipality, uh, particularly, uh, I'm, I'm in real estate and I know how this- [0:29:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1770s) They have not signed up [0:29:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1770s) ... can be real hard. They can s- they can slow you down. And, uh, I know a lot of people would love this kind of thing that are trying to do some development work. [0:29:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1783s) Yeah. And, you know, this bill does two things in, in my opinion. You know, it, it does streamline the process, but then we're talking about, you know, interest clocks and things like that, you know, with, with home builders. And like any industry, you know, those additional costs, you know, a lot of times are passed on to the consumer, so this would help affordability as well. [0:30:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1801s) Thank you. [0:30:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1802s) Thank you. Go ahead, Senator. [0:30:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1806s) Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've definitely... Thank you, Mr. Chair. I really appreciate this bill, spirit of the bill, and some of the details I do have questions about. Um, how did we come up with, uh, 10 days versus any other, um, days? So going from 30 to 10. [0:30:22](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1822s) My favorite number. [0:30:25](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1825s) Understood. [0:30:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1828s) No, um, actually- [0:30:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1830s) It, it is a good number [0:30:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1830s) ... 10, 10 are my favorite number. But, um, no, uh, coming up with, with 10 days, um, I'm in the industry working with other folks, uh, you know, as far as the process seemed like a, a reasonable timeframe. Uh, but I have been working with, with GMA and ACCG on, on that timeframe. [0:30:46](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1846s) Thank you. May I have another question? [0:30:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1848s) Yes. [0:30:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1848s) Are we open to, um, clarifying it's a 10 business days, being that, um, oftentimes, um, knowing what it's like to be a commercial real estate owner, and it does cost real money. We wanna keep things moving, but sometimes things happen during holiday times, you know- [0:31:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1865s) Weekends [0:31:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1865s) ... lot of weekends. Um, I, I think, um, maybe some clarification about 10 business days may help, um, for those unique times, just to minimize, um, unforeseen consequences. Would you think, uh, the committee would be open to that? [0:31:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1879s) Uh, yes, we would be. Any further comments or questions? [0:31:24](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1884s) And, and one more. At a, at the appropriate time, I'd love to offer an, a amendment. [0:31:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1888s) Okay. [0:31:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1888s) Thank you. [0:31:31](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1891s) Any further comments or questions? Don't see any. Let's see what we got here. We got Jeff, uh, Ledford, uh, from the Realtors. [0:31:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1909s) Good afternoon, Chair and, uh, members of the committee. Jeff Ledford with the Georgia Realtors. I'll probably be the one person here that simply says this is a good idea, but I'm not the person you need to get into the mechanics with, because we don't do this other than, as you said, in real estate, sometimes, you know, it is one of those where the longer it takes, the more expensive it gets. We're here to speak to that. Anything we can do to bring the cost down for everything from housing to development and construction is always a good thing. [0:32:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1941s) Uh, but we will defer to, uh, the, the folks that are out there actually doing things that require the inspection, those that are constructing and building these, um, these, uh, structures to the experience they're facing with it. I'm only here to say that, yes, we are experiencing the cost side of it. [0:32:39](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1959s) Thank you. [0:32:39](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1959s) Thank you. [0:32:40](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1960s) Oh, we got one question. [0:32:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1961s) Yeah. Go ahead, Mr. Webb. [0:32:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1963s) Whoa. Chairs. Yes. [0:32:46](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1966s) Quick question for you. And I wanna- [0:32:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1971s) Your mic's not lighting up for some reason. [0:32:54](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1974s) Yeah. [0:32:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1976s) There we go. [0:32:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1978s) Now, I got a quick question for you. [0:33:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1980s) Sure. [0:33:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1981s) Change spots. [0:33:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1981s) Absolutely. [0:33:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1982s) Did you know anytime- [0:33:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1985s) Can you take the mic please? [0:33:07](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=1987s) Sure. Every time we're up here, every session, buzzwords come out, and people ride 'em like horses till they die. Give me your definition of affordable housing. [0:33:24](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2004s) No, honestly, that's a good question. Um, housing is not one particular thing. It is a full spectrum. So housing that is affordable to a first-time home buyer could mean one thing. Housing that is affordable to someone that needs four bedrooms, their family has grown, is a different thing. Those two things are not one and the same. Uh, what we prefer to look at is housing, housing is something that should be attainable for those that wish to become homeowners. [0:33:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2036s) Housing is also something that should be attainable for those that wish to rent a property. [0:34:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2040s) So in, in your definition, a nice apartment, townhouse, rental, that, that's housing also, right? [0:34:07](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2047s) Abso- it, anywhere someone can have as a dwelling- [0:34:10](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2050s) Right [0:34:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2051s) ... is housing in, in, in the sense of what we're looking at and discussing. Um, you will hear numbers all over the place from, you know, uh, one-third of your income. You know, that's gen- [0:34:20](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2060s) Yeah [0:34:20](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2060s) ... the general recommendations. I don't look at that as that is affordable housing or not affordable housing. What we look at is, is housing costing more than it should for reasons that could be addressable. [0:34:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2072s) Okay. [0:34:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2072s) So when we see that 27% plus the cost of a house in Georgia is because of regulatory, um, requirements- [0:34:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2081s) Right [0:34:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2082s) ... that is why I'm here today. The time that it takes to get something inspected is adding to the cost. If we can bring that down, that brings it within reach to more folks. [0:34:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2091s) Jeff, thank you so much. [0:34:52](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2092s) Sure. Thank you. [0:34:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2093s) It's, uh- [0:34:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2093s) Good question [0:34:54](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2094s) ... well, it's always good to get the definition from an expert instead of a politician. So I appreciate you. [0:34:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2099s) I appreciate you. Thank you. [0:35:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2114s) Go ahead, Senator. Do you have questions? [0:35:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2118s) I do, uh, Mr. Chairman. I want to go draw a couple questions from starting at line 40. The applicant shall have the option of retaining at its own expense a professional provider to provide the required plan review or inspection conducted in person or virtually. Uh, and we're living in an ever-growing society with, uh, options being online. Um, I think when we're talking about a, a building being reviewed, I, I'd like to see the inspector show up in person, uh, if you're going to have a, a private inspector. [0:35:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2157s) Uh, and here's my fear. You open up shop online, one person puts a license up. You got folks wherever reviewing all the stuff, and it's under that person's license. Until something catastrophic happens and then we shut that person down, they could have had a whole approval mill running, and they never showed up in person. Uh, so, uh, can you e- explain any length of why we may want to allow these virtual building inspections? [0:36:31](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2191s) Yeah, sure. Tha- thank you for the question. Uh, you know, so the, the virtual inspections where they're used, uh, is for visual inspections, so it would be done like on a, a framing inspection or a roofing inspection. Mechanical type inspections, uh, you know, would be done in person. You'd have to be there to, you know, plug in the machine to test the equipment, things like that. So it'd be more for the virtual type, uh, inspections. And, you know, it, it will help streamline, you know, the, the process because if for some reason, you know, you get, you get a denial and the inspector leaves and you got to reschedule and they're several days down the road where they potentially it could be a fix that takes five minutes, and you can do that virtually as they watch you do it. [0:37:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2231s) Also, with the virtual inspections, I mean, they are, um, uh, geo-addressed, you know, for verification and then the, you know, everything is recorded. So you could go back to review to make sure things are done correctly or if there's issues. Uh, it's all, uh, documented via video. [0:37:29](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2249s) And, and my last question, um, reading from lines 18 to 24 where we've inserted the new section, uh, does this sub- subvert the local governing authority's ability to do the inspections, saying you could, if you just notify them, come in with your own private inspector? [0:37:52](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2272s) You're talking about, uh, as far as their power? You're talking about- [0:37:55](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2275s) Well, shall acknowledge whether an applicant-retained private professional provider provides a required plan review or inspection. So if you, under this bill, would you then be allowed to get your own private inspector and not go through a city or county inspector? [0:38:07](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2287s) That's correct. Yes, sir. Yeah. [0:38:10](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2290s) So my, my concern again, if, if I wanted to subvert the process and put a picture up, uh, of a framed house, put it on my iPad, took a picture of my iPhone or the iPad, and somebody said, "Oh yeah, well, what I saw, I reviewed, and that was good, but I didn't see that. That's not the picture I saw." Um, is any concern, uh, for oversight just to protect consumers? [0:38:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2312s) Right. Yeah, and I do want to bring up, um, Ian Cohen, I was going to let him testify. Uh, he'd probably be able to answer some of those questions for you better than I can. [0:38:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2323s) So thank you, everyone, and I'm usually in front of boardrooms, not these kinds of boards, so I apologize, uh, if I'm, if my, my style's a little bit different. So to address your, your specific concern, uh, virtual inspections are nothing new. This has been going on for at least five years, especially with technology. It's important to understand when a virtual inspection is done, it's done by a licensed inspector. Those licensed inspectors are the same ones that come out of building departments. It's not a different trade or anything like that. Um, cities right now, especially in Georgia, are doing virtual. [0:39:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2358s) There are specific practices that you have to follow when you do a virtual inspection. You have to verify the address. You have to, you know, verify plans. Plans are supposed to be pulled up while you're doing those inspections. And so the, the inspectors who do virtual inspections almost have to go a, an extra mile to make sure everything is taken care of. The core responsibility of an inspector is life safety. And so I, I understand the concern and the trust, um, factor here, but that trust factor is reliant on the contractor, and the same thing could be happening whether they're in person or not with regard to bad construction. [0:39:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2398s) Our goal from a, from a, uh, inspection standpoint is to make sure everything is inspected to code and to plan. [0:40:15](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2415s) Please stay seated. You got a few questions. [0:40:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2417s) Sure. [0:40:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2423s) Go ahead, Senator Howard. [0:40:25](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2425s) Thank you. Um, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for coming. Uh, thank you, Mr., Mr. Chair, and thank you for coming. I understand you traveled to make sure we, uh, have a good idea of what's going on straight from your mouth, right? [0:40:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2438s) Yes. [0:40:39](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2439s) So that's, that's helpful. Um, [0:40:46](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2446s) there's something that still sit, is unsettling about, um, the way technology's moving very fast, and we want to embrace technology, but we also know that technology's moving very fast. So I'm alluding to AI. [0:41:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2460s) Mm-hmm. [0:41:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2461s) I'm alluding to deep fake videos that can only, not only deep, be deep fake when it comes to a person, but you may be able to deep fake, you know, take Photoshop to the next level. So having a video that looks like [0:41:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2476s) A different construction site. Um, I know technology does a very good job, uh, geolocation, all of that is wonderful. However, technology is so good that there are ways around it, and anybody who has teenagers knows there's a way around all these things. And I'm in my forties, I know people have been doing this for a long, long time. [0:41:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2501s) There seems to be a big hole here where we don't wanna stop progress, we wanna encourage progress, we wanna encourage, uh, technology, but there seems to be an invitation, um, speaking to the senator from the second, folks have a way. Um, and, and I would love to see some language that, you know, just give a suggestion, where an initial inspection is in person, um, but subsequent inspections open can be physical or virtual. [0:42:12](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2532s) That at least gives that, uh, comfort of knowing that somebody physically was there, had eyes on the situation, and everything that you're seeing afterwards is a adjustment or a correction. Um, so from the, the small guys like me who've been in, in part of this, to the ones who are doing huge projects, um, we wanna keep business moving, but we also don't wanna wait and be reactive after something catastrophic happens because everything was all done virtual and you find out there was this other thing going on. So just wanted to get your thoughts on that- [0:42:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2563s) Sure [0:42:44](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2564s) ... comment, uh, uh, and your openness and willingness to, you know, have an initial inspection in person and then, uh, open it up afterwards for follow-up inspections, you know. Oh, you know, there's always one more thing. Uh, maybe those one more things can be done virtually, um, yeah. [0:43:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2580s) Sure. So let me unpack the, the whole AI/deep fake and all that. The responsibility from a corporate standpoint and from the, uh, from a relationship perspective is everything that we do is done contractually. Um, we go through a, a significant amount of compliance requirements to work with a contractor to be able to, to perform inspections. Um, with all the respect in the world when I make this comment, if a contractor who's already difficult, having difficulty embracing technology, trying to go the extra mile to do a deep fake or anything like that, I think that's a pretty big leap, right? [0:43:40](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2620s) They are-- Their goal is to make sure that what they are constructing, because they still carry the same liability, you know, on that project that we would as a, as a private provider. And so w-we've done probably over two hundred and fifty thousand inspections in the state of Florida in the last two years. Um, we have never seen a, a situation where someone's tried to game the system. We've never had a situation where a claim has been filed because we failed something, or I'm sorry, we passed something that shouldn't have been, shouldn't have been passed. [0:44:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2651s) Um, the inspectors that we're talking about are inspectors that come right out of the building department who are doing it in person, so they know what they're looking for. So I, I don't know if there's a lot of fear around the, the AI or the deep fake side. Um, what I would suggest is that the most responsible private providers who are doing virtual aren't doing it via FaceTime. They're not doing it via Teams. [0:44:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2682s) They're not doing it via Zoom. They're doing it via a, a specific platform that makes sure there are certain things that are checked before that inspection is done, geotagging and those types of things. With regard to your comment about, um, first pass should be done in person, that's not currently happening in Georgia. In Georgia, they are, they're doing those first inspections virtually. Um, and as I referenced, the, the ability to move projects through faster, especially during times of, um, you know, after a hurricane or after storms or anything like that, uh, gets inhibited if all of a sudden you have to wait on the city to do something before a, a private provider can get involved. [0:45:25](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2725s) One of the reasons why this, this bill to me is so important is it just removes that ambiguity of that, that shot clock. Um, and I can, I can say this, besides the cities in, in, in Georgia that are doing this, there's cities all throughout the state that, throughout the country who are, who are doing this because they've embraced the technological aspect of it and the trust factor. So, and I know there's a leap to get there, and that's what we wanna work with to do that. [0:45:52](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2752s) If I may. Oh, I'm sorry, Mr. Chair. I'll come back. [0:45:55](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2755s) Follow up. [0:45:55](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2755s) I do have a follow-up about that. [0:45:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2757s) I might be able to help you with one of them. [0:45:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2758s) Yes. Thank you. I'll, I'll defer. [0:46:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2760s) If, if you got just a second. Said the, uh, uh, you know, some of my learned friends here will tell me that OCGA Sixteen dash Ten dash Twenty point One provides a s- a sentence of up to ten years in prison and a ten thousand dollar fine for fraud against public ad- uh, administration. The, uh, so somebody goes in there to say they're gonna trick the geo-locate or they're gonna do this, they're going to jail or they're gonna pay a big fine. [0:46:26](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2786s) This is our, this will be state law. [0:46:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2787s) State law. [0:46:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2788s) So this gets to my follow-up 'cause this is state law. Um, you're currently out of state coming up. This is, you mentioned Florida, this is big. I know in Georgia this happens, but if we have... I'd just feel, I would feel a lot more comfortable knowing that we have a company that has either a Georgia base or some type of way where we can hold them accountable here in Georgia. So just, uh, I would love to have a conversation about that. I know s- a lot of companies operate out of multiple states, but, um, to senator from the second's point, if we have somebody who dismorse into your, your, you're in California and you have a permit mill because you can just, you got, whatever the case, we wanna safeguard ourselves from folks who are outside of Georgia kind of making things happen fast out of expedience, and then we come back and say something goes belly up, and then our state law can't capture them 'cause they've packed up shop and they are just a website. [0:47:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2843s) So- [0:47:25](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2845s) In Georgia, they're gonna get the same effect. Said they- [0:47:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2847s) Yes [0:47:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2848s) ... I don't care where they're from, they come to Georgia to do it. They'll, they'll go to jail. Your, your sheriff over there to your left, he can tell, tell us more about that law enforcement business. [0:47:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2857s) But I think you understand the concern if this is all virtual, they don't have to stand foot in the state. And we just talked earlier with, in the chamber about folks dabbling in election stuff who don't put, who don't step, step foot in here. We have to make some adjustments so we can go get the bad actors who are outside of the state. It seems that this could allow for, again, we know 98% of the folks- [0:48:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2882s) Yeah [0:48:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2882s) ... are gonna be doing their thing, and you mentioned the stats. But all it takes is one or two, um, and I just wanted to open up for a discussion. I don't, I, I don't claim to have all the answers, but I, it just seems that we have a, a hole that maybe this committee could come up with a solution. [0:48:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2897s) Can I just make one quick comment? So- [0:48:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2899s) Please [0:48:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2899s) ... companies like ours and, and companies who operate within this, this industry have to be registered in the state. So it can't be a situation where it's, um, privateprovider.com living wherever doing these inspections. You have to be registered in the state, and the people doing those inspections have to be registered at the municipal level. So it, it's ... The, the accountability is very, very, um, very clear. I think it's also important to note that the current statute also says that the city is completely indemnified of all liability. [0:48:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2933s) So companies like ours or other private professional providers are required to carry a higher level of liability insurance than the city would just because there, it's, there, there's that, that kind of catch up at this point. So I, I, I tell you that just to kind of puts to rest some of the concerns with regard to the, the corporate structure and the corporate entity registration with the city, with the state. [0:49:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2958s) And too, you know, the penalties that Senator Ginn talked about, and then also losing your license, which is your livelihood as well, is a pretty big deterrent in my opinion. Yeah. [0:49:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2967s) Mr. Chairman, if I may. The, the thing we did discuss in the chamber about the long arm of the law, if there's criminal intent, the, the, the long arm of the law would reach into other states for these violations. So it would be no problem. [0:49:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2978s) Good. Thank you. [0:49:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2981s) Senator Mallow. [0:49:47](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=2987s) Thank you. In order to be an inspector in Georgia, you have to be licensed in Georgia. So this would address what you're talking about. They're gonna have to be licensed, uh, inspectors in Georgia. They're gonna have to pass Southern Building Code test, and so they're gonna have to be licensed in that area to even inspect in Georgia. So somebody that's only licensed in Florida could not inspect buildings in Georgia. They're gonna have to be licensed in Georgia. [0:50:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3016s) Correct. [0:50:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3016s) Is that correct? [0:50:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3017s) Correct. [0:50:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3017s) All right. [0:50:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3018s) And they carry a, a, a national license called an ICC or International Code Council license, which would, which further cements their licensure. [0:50:25](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3025s) Okay. Okay. [0:50:34](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3034s) Senator Mallow. [0:50:36](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3036s) Thank you, Mr. Chair. I just want to clarify. Uh, you can get a reciprocal license in Georgia to be a building inspector, uh, from several other Southern states. Um, you don't... And you bypass the exam, so you don't have to just sit for the exam in Georgia. You could be licensed in South Carolina, and it will reciprocate to Georgia. I mean, you bypass the exam. [0:50:54](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3054s) Correct, but you have to be registered. [0:50:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3056s) You do. [0:50:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3056s) Yeah, yeah. [0:50:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3057s) You have to be registered. [0:50:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3057s) Yeah. [0:50:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3057s) But you don't have to sit and take the exam. [0:51:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3060s) I believe you do. [0:51:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3062s) There, there are specific... I c- I can come back with s- you know, specific examples for you. [0:51:12](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3072s) Go ahead, Senator Setzler. [0:51:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3074s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I'm gonna ki- kind of divide this question. I'm gonna share my thoughts on this, but I think the 10-day thing makes sense to me. The, the timeline, I like the timeline move. I'm just not personally comfortable with the overall practice of doing a building inspection virtually. When you think about going in and you think about, like, the, from a fire code perspective for egress, you think about even if you're looking at a ADA accessibility in a restroom, you've got certain, you've got your pull distance and some things on doors and all. There's just a lot that's got to be done. [0:51:46](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3106s) I don't know if you have someone on site that says, "All right. Show me the measurement of your, your, your pull distance from the door for, for, for- [0:51:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3113s) Yes [0:51:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3113s) ... disability code." I guess you're having someone there on site showing that while you're watching it online. It just seems, the practice of online inspection seems tortured to me. I mean, I was here when we, we, we started this in, this, this third-party inspection process, and it has helped provide capacity. I think it's, I think it's great as a concept. I just, I, I'm just gonna state, Mr., Mr. Chairman, I'm just, I love the 10-day thing, but the idea that we've got buildings that are being certified to, to code 100% virtually, I just, I just have an issue with that. [0:52:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3150s) I, I didn't know that's where this, this had all progressed to. I, I would say, I mean, it's one thing to say, "Hey, I did, I did a physical inspection, and I s- hey, I have three punch list items," and you come back, right. Okay, we, we're gonna do the punch inspection. Hey, show me this dimension. This is fixed. Okay, this, this, this slab condition, that's all good. Check. Um, [0:52:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3171s) when we're talking about pure virtual inspections, I, I think it's drifted outside of the, where the legislature started this. I don't care that it happens in Florida. I don't care where it happens. I think there's a public safety concern in this. I just have a public safety concern about it. Um, I'm gonna editorialize this. I have an issue that for this kind of thing, just as I know it's a common practice, um, that the contractor gets to pick the inspection that gets to inspect their building. There's a lot of risk as a contractor. Um, I know oftentimes contractors will pick the CMT technicians. [0:53:22](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3202s) They'll pick the geotech. I mean, those are inherently g- those are inherently owner functions. And if you look at, if you look at a, a- [0:53:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3212s) A, a, a large scale project and, and you s- you study design construction document. Those, those are owner functions, material testing. I think inspection's an owner function as well. I have no issue that the builder pays them, but the fact that we've got builders that are picking their select- picking their inspector, um, and then it's a virtual process. I just have-- I want to express concern with that entire ecosystem because I think it's great, we have great professionals that have great experience to go on site and do a pure walk-through inspection and say, "Yes, we ce- we certify this building to, to code." I just have a, have an issue with the virtual delivery of that. [0:54:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3254s) I'm just saying, Mr. Chairman, the 10 days, I love it. We need to speed this along. There doesn't need to be any more delays. I'm just gonna state I have concerns about the overall process, and that just needs to be aired on behalf of cons- constituents who think like me, because I think we've... I think the pendulum has swung further than it needs to. And that's not a, that's not a comment on your organization or your people. You're, you're following the law. I think the concern is not you all, the concern is us putting a, a framework in place that allows something to happen that I don't think is in keeping with the original intent of let's, let's, let's accelerate things, let's not make it just dependent on the inspection staff. [0:54:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3290s) I think in many cases, your folks are better trained because they can do a ca- do it for a career. I think sometimes code officials may not be there that long. There's turnover. I, I love what you do. I'm not concerned about there being fraud. It's the margins. It's on the margins. It's, is it, is it best? Um, I'm just gonna share that, Mr. Chairman. I support the 10-day thing. I just, I'm, I'm concerned about the overall practice, and that's what some of the members were, were speaking to. [0:55:22](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3322s) Mr. Webb. [0:55:22](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3322s) Yeah. I'm, I'm just curious to Senator Setzler's, um, concerns. These inspectors that do it virtually, do they have the same amount of liability that a inspector would have if they went out and, and did it on site? [0:55:39](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3339s) The liability requirement for a private professional provider is higher than the city- [0:55:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3343s) Well, no, no, I understand that. Would it be the same? Would the, you know- [0:55:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3348s) The responsibility is exactly the same. [0:55:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3349s) Yeah. The responsibility is exactly the same, so the liability would be exactly the same. [0:55:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3353s) The same. [0:55:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3353s) And so the exposure would be exactly the same, right? [0:55:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3356s) Correct. [0:55:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3356s) They receive no immunity- [0:55:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3358s) No [0:55:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3358s) ... from civil process, correct? [0:56:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3361s) Correct. [0:56:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3362s) Okay. Thank you. [0:56:03](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3363s) If I could just comment on one thing. The, the process that we put forward as far as this, this, these changes gives the homeowner the ultimate decision-making in, in, in this process. So they have to approve the use of a third party. It's not just an automatic you have to use it. There's no requirement, there's no, um, mandate that they have to use a third party to do virtual. Um, the contractor is required to disclose that before, you know, as part of the contract and all of that because they have to do that at the time of permit application. [0:56:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3403s) Do you remember buying your first home? [0:56:45](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3405s) I do. [0:56:46](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3406s) Um, I was pretty young. It was a big stack of paper, closing table. They tagged all the things. I signed things. I, I don't know that homeowners have the sophistication to be able to, to sort of parse that. They may have the responsibility. I don't know they have the sophistication to do it. Um, ultimately, these things are in place because of public safety. Not, it's not... I know, I know we've indemnified the cities. We said, "Cities, you're held harmless. You use the private inspector. You can't get sued for what the private inspector does." So we've covered those entities. I'm just concerned from a public perspective. [0:57:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3437s) Um, I love what you do. [0:57:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3439s) No. [0:57:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3439s) I just don't-- I just have a problem doing it virtually for a first inspection as a prac- I don't care what... Uh, in fact, we talked earlier. I, I g- gave him the courtesy of sharing this. Florida has a four, eight-year term limits on their legislature. Lots of things move in Florida that doesn't have senior members that just say, "Wait a minute." Things just kind of will sometimes fly through. Great state. I just, I'm just expressing my concerns. I love the 10-day thing. I just think we, we need to monitor this more closely, and I'm just concerned that, you know, from... [0:57:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3473s) I, I know it's, it's not a larger buildings, bigger university buildings, they require IBC special inspections. Those are carved out of this. But I just wanted to share that, Mr. Chairman. [0:58:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3482s) No, and thank you for that. And one thing to think about too with the virtual, I mean, it, it's not a mandate, it's optional as well. Um, if the city has the technology and they're comfortable with it, uh, this would just give them another option to help streamline the process. If they don't have the technology or they're not comfortable with it, then it's not forced on them. [0:58:22](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3502s) Senator. [0:58:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3503s) Yes, sir. Thank you. Thank you for coming here. Where is your company located, sir? [0:58:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3507s) So, uh, our headquarters are in South Florida. [0:58:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3510s) South Florida. Thank you for coming here. And I like this whole concept of moving it, particularly the 10-day provision as my colleague from the 37th has brought up. I too am a little concerned, and I share the concern of my colleague from the 35th about that initial inspection because some, so often a developer does, for example, a single family house. If you are doing a meal or you're doing so many, you're gonna have your special people, and sometimes the independence might not be there to do the real work, and they just let it go through. [0:59:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3557s) And the problem is, with many of these issues, they won't come to bear for years. Uh, uh, um, and, uh, when you first have, you're first homeowner, I'm, uh... If, if I do a development myself and just sell a house and just flip the house, just flip the house The, it's too much work for a homeowner to try to find you to be responsible for that failure of that inspection. That's my real... [0:59:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3588s) I like this bill. I really do. I love the bill when I heard it and I said, "Hey, I, I like something that m- the senator from the 45th is bringing." I was serious. But, uh, 'cause it really, I just went through a situation myself where it's just like, hell, just getting this approval. So we need this bill. I just am concerned that that initial inspection be in person if it's a third party that you choose, because the homeowner that you flip it to will not have any... [1:00:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3621s) They'll have to go through too much hell to get at the root of it if they ever get to the root of why this happened. I am also a lawyer, and I know that sometimes getting to prove that y- your failure to inspect was the actual cause of the fire or the electrical whatever that went wrong, and, um, um, Mr., uh, Chairman stated that it's only for framing, and I don't know whether the bill is, is that in here where, for example, the electrical is being inspected, it has to be in person the first time versus, uh, virtual because there's some things that you can see in person that you may or may not see if it's virtual. [1:01:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3665s) So I'm a little concerned about that on line 41 says p- personal virtual and it con- in con- in, uh, response to the gentleman from Savannah stating, asking that question. But if it's mechanical, if it's framing, it's one thing, load-bearing wall, all that kind of thing. But if it's... Some things I'm just, I'm, I'm a little concerned about this first time, but if it's just coming through the punch list, I don't have a problem with that 'cause they've seen it and they can say, "Oh, you did this, did this and did this." 'Cause what it says to me if you have to come back is they actually saw something the first time versus you just passed it through and, and, uh, uh, people are so creative now. [1:01:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3713s) The persons who will have liability will have been long gone. It's not the ones that are holding the bag now 'cause, uh, so often there's a third and fourth title holders and, uh, what caused the actual problem. It just... What, if any, impediments would there be if we did require, for example, the first pass to be in person versus the second pass with an independent? If you have a city or a municipality or government, they would be, they would have the independence, I would think, to even allow the virtual. [1:02:33](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3753s) But if I'm choosing the person, it's too close, it's not enough distance to n- not be a conflict of interest to me. Uh, 'cause I'm gonna choose you to come out and get my job done because I want it done so I can sell it next week. [1:02:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3770s) So I, I think there's two things I, I, I wanna immediately address on, on, on what you, you mentioned. One, if we flip that script and said someone went out there and did it in person, show me the proof of that inspection. Show me what it looked like at the time of inspection. Can't do it. Virtually you can. Virtually there's a d- there's a digital record that there's an archive of what that inspection looks like. And so the, the doing it, a- a- again, I'm, I'm saying this with all due respect because I think the, uh, education around how, uh, virtual inspections are performed is no different than how an inspection is performed in person. [1:03:35](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3815s) They're, uh, they're, they almost have to go a lu- a little bit further on the inspection to make sure everything is, is according to code and according to plan. With regard to the passing of the, uh, liability from the first person to the next person to the next person, if that same scenario happened with the city, it would be a lot harder to prove it with the city than it would be with a third party. And that homeowner, the, the payout on that claim would be a lot less than it would be with a private provider. [1:04:07](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3847s) I don't wanna make this a financial dis- you know, decision or f- a financial policy. Uh, it's, I'm just providing details around that. With regard to the virtual aspect of this and per what the ICC has said from a record-keeping standpoint and from a, uh, a, a review perspective, they do not distinguish between virtual and in person. There is no clear science to say that we found this here, we found that there. We've come behind cities before and found things that they've, they missed. [1:04:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3882s) And so there's, I would say it's a little bit more detailed and you definitely have a digital record of that going forward. [1:04:52](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3892s) Senator Howard. [1:04:54](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3894s) Thank you again, Mr. Chair. Um, I really appreciate this discussion. Uh, we've, we're talking a lot about individual homes, but am I correct in this would also apply to large scale buildings if we're talking about a, an apartment complex, a school? W- would I be correct that this applies to across the board? [1:05:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3918s) It would... It... I'm sorry. [1:05:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3921s) Go ahead. [1:05:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3921s) It, it would apply to anything that, uh, the inspector's licensure would allow to them to inspect. [1:05:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3927s) Okay. And to follow up, we were just confirming that you can m- be licensed and s- and not be in Georgia because there's a mechanism for that. Is that correct? [1:05:36](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3936s) Correct. [1:05:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3937s) So just following that logic Is it possible based on our current law that you can have an out-of-state, um, licensed inspector never set foot on Georgia soil and be completely responsible for inspections, first pass, second pass, third, in a home or hospital or a school, and they've never set foot in the state of Georgia? [1:06:07](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3967s) Yes. It's happening right now. [1:06:10](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3970s) That's concerning to me, um, that it's happening now and that we are looking at moving forward without maybe, um, taking a handle. I don't even claim to know the solution, but I, I do think it's good to say that out loud. [1:06:25](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3985s) Go a- and, and I- [1:06:26](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=3986s) My... Hold on one second, sir. My, my constituents would be very concerned to know that their school that their child is going to move into could potentially be built by folks with this wonderful industry in Georgia, Georgia labor, but be checked, be inspected by someone who's never stepped foot in Georgia. Not saying that's the normal, but that's the fact that that's true and it happens and it will continue to happen based on this, I, I have... [1:06:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4019s) That gives me great concern. [1:07:02](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4022s) Thank you. I think you're finally done with questions. [1:07:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4026s) Thank you, everyone. [1:07:08](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4028s) Uh, next up, uh, we've got Mark Ivey, Ivey Homes. [1:07:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4043s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Mark Ivey. I'm with Ivey Homes, and I'm also here representing, uh, on behalf of the Home Builders Association of Georgia. Uh, we've utilized third-party inspections on many of our projects. They do help streamline it, and I would say it saves, uh, on a typical house it could save as much as two to three weeks in build time. So we're in support of continuing to use third-party inspections, and the virtual option sounds fascinating to me. Um, right now if an inspector comes and checks on our houses, all I get is a list of anything they found or an approval. [1:07:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4078s) I don't know what they looked at. I don't know what they checked. There's nothing. If I have a third-party inspector that's virtually doing it and there's a digital record that I can now save in my system and I can pull up and look, that sounds great to me. Uh, so we're in support of this bill. Be happy to answer any questions. [1:08:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4097s) Thank you. Senator Setzler. [1:08:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4099s) Yes, sir. I love the record as well. I guess the, the question is, is there anything that keeps a digital, a, a virtual record, you know, sort of a video record from happening with a physical inspector? Um, 'cause, 'cause I, I would ask you this, and if you were... A- and I'm, a- and I appreciate what you do. Pr- love what you do. Um, as a builder, um, let's say you took a loan and built a two and a half million dollar headquarters building and, um, um, it was built by a third party. [1:08:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4131s) Say, say you're focused on your residential business. You had a commercial builder friend of yours build it. Would you accept your building without walking through it and checking it yourself? [1:09:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4140s) As the, as the end user of that building, I certainly would walk through it and check it. [1:09:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4145s) That's the point. [1:09:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4146s) So a homeowner would too. So if I, when I sell a house to a homeowner, they have the option to hire their own home inspector to come check behind me and we do what's called a homeowner orientation tour, which we demonstrate to them all the functions of their house. Where is your water shut off? Where is your power shut off? How do ground fault circuits work? Um, all of that stuff. How do you light the gas logs? How does your heat strips work in your furnace? How does the wa- hot water heater work? All of that is demonstrated to them. They're also given a book. [1:09:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4177s) So they have the opportunity to do a physical inspection of that home before we're d- we deliver it, just like if that was my office building being built by a third-party contractor, I would also do that same inspection upon completion of that building. [1:09:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4191s) A- a- and that's all I'm saying. Just, just w- set, setting all the legislative talk aside, just breaking it down. Y- you're not gonna move into a commercial building without walking through and putting your, putting your Mark I professional eyeballs on it yourself and seeing what's there. You're not gonna... You wouldn't wanna have a virtual inspection of a building that you, you'd sign, um, y- you, you really saw the retainage. You'd say, "I got it. Got, got my certificate of occupancy," uh, and move on. Y- y- you wouldn't do that without walking through it yourself. The concern is should the, should members of the public who don't have the technical capacity themselves depend on a system that we the legislature set up for them that the professional eyeballs that have seen their building was virtual? [1:10:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4230s) Now I get the fact that you can record it, but you could record it- [1:10:33](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4233s) Right [1:10:33](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4233s) ... with a human being walking through there with a GoPro or a camera. It's not the idea, the idea that virtual has some benefits as it's delivered today doesn't preclude a person walking through and doing that. So, and I'm, I'm not trying to put you on the spot. I'm saying wh- what we're trying to weigh here is I don't think you'd move into a commercial building yourself without you yourself with your expert experience walking through looking at it, and citizens want that too. Just a human being walking around saying, "What's that? That's... So- something looks off." You know? That's all. [1:11:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4261s) So we, we, we build about 200 houses a year, and I don't know that I've ever had a homeowner ask me for inspection records on a house that we built. Uh, when we're done and they move in or walk through at the end, they're, they're looking at the fit and finish. Uh, they're excited about moving in. They're, they're not looking for, "Hey, how was this house inspected?" Um, you know, "We wanna know all this detail." They don't... I, I never get asked that question. And, and yes, a, a current inspector could walk through with a camera and they could, could video it all just like the virtual does. [1:11:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4297s) But there's another part of the virtual that I like as well, is that I've got a group now that is, that is trained to do these inspections. They have a system So I've, I've been in our houses when an inspector walks in before, and some of them have a little bit of a system, some of them have none. As a builder, that's my last line of defense. I want a good inspector. Um, you know, a lot of the comments I hear, it's like, "Well, these builders and developers, they're all bad. They're all crooks," and that's not true. Uh, the vast majority of us want to build a good home. [1:12:09](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4329s) We want to deliver a solid product to the end buyer, and so we want a good inspection. And when I've got a highly trained, highly capable inspector, whether they're in person or virtual, it doesn't matter to me. It's of benefit to me as a builder. I want them to catch anything that we may have missed. I've got ... My first line of defense is my superintendent on the job. My second line of defense is that inspector. My third line is if they've hired a home inspector at the very end before they close to do that inspection. [1:12:39](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4359s) That's my ... That's the last opportunity for a, a, a another set of eyes to catch something that, that might have been missed. So we, we welcome, you know, thorough ins- thorough inspections. Uh, the virtual option is very intriguing to me. I have not seen it done, uh, but it sounds like it's a great option. Technology is changing. Uh, it's time to embrace some of this technology change and figure out how can we deliver houses quicker and more efficiently to the, to the end consumer. And if I get a better house along the way, that's great. [1:13:12](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4392s) Thank you. Senator Williams? [1:13:14](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4394s) How does this work? Who is actually holding the camera going through videoing, filming the inspection? Maybe I need to answer it to, ask that question to him. [1:13:30](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4410s) Mr. Cohen would be the right one to answer that- [1:13:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4412s) Yeah [1:13:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4412s) ... 'cause they, they do that every day. [1:13:33](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4413s) I mean, is it gonna use a drone to go through the house or ... That's what I can't figure out, is who's manning the camera. So yeah, we'll go back and ask him that at, uh, another time, if that's appropriate, Mr. Chairman. [1:13:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4429s) If you, if you'd like to come up to the second witness microphone- [1:13:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4433s) Sure [1:13:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4433s) ... and answer that question, that'd be great. Thank you. [1:13:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4439s) Go ahead, Mr. Witt. [1:14:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4441s) As Senator Williams said, and I'm on two, when I was responsible for homeland security for the city of Columbus, we did a lot of our bridge and dam inspections and other critical infrastructure using drones, a lot of them. We didn't have human beings to go out there to put ladders up and all this. We were looking for integrity of the structure and, and stuff like this. So there's a lot of opportunities with it. They were using small, we used to call them everything from throw bots to ... I mean, they're the size of your hand, that you could put out there, and they would go and look into the cracks and crevices, a lot of this stuff. [1:14:34](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4474s) So technology does provide some of that stuff out there. [1:14:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4477s) Yeah, that- [1:14:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4477s) So for bigger, bigger structure. [1:14:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4478s) Yeah. Thank you. [1:14:39](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4479s) Sir. [1:14:40](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4480s) My mic. So to answer your question, uh, our inspectors connect with the contractor in the field. So it would be the super, or it would be a roofing contractor or a plumbing con- whatever it is, for them to hold the device, and the inspector directs the contractor where to go, what to grab, and all that. And at this ... At ... While our inspector is, is viewing that video, they are taking screenshots. Best practice to take s- screenshots of specific aspects of that inspection. [1:15:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4511s) So the inspector is telling the roofer, "Show me the ridge vent. Show me- [1:15:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4517s) Nail patterns [1:15:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4518s) ... all of that. Show me where you've weaved the shingles in the valley. Uh, get a close-up of that. I want to see how that's done." [1:15:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4527s) Correct. [1:15:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4528s) So it would be a human- [1:15:31](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4531s) Yes [1:15:31](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4531s) ... holding that. Okay. [1:15:33](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4533s) Correct. [1:15:34](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4534s) So then the electrician, uh, when he's ready to have the electrical work inspected- [1:15:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4542s) Mm-hmm [1:15:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4542s) ... then he calls up the inspector, and the inspector tells the electrician, "Show me the panel box. Show me, um- [1:15:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4551s) Breaker size [1:15:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4551s) ... the breaker size, everything. Show me what you've got, and show me where it is." Okay. Does that clear some things up for you, Senator? I mean, I, I mean, I'm learning, too. [1:16:04](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4564s) Yes. Okay. I was just consulting. [1:16:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4566s) Yeah, and I just want to remind the members, you know, it's not a mandate. It's an option. So it's another tool in local municipalities' toolbox. If they've got the technology and the funds to appropriately do inspections virtually, it's not ... And if they don't or if they choose not to do those, that they can do them the same old way. And w- you know, we, we allow doctors to issue medicine to us virtually. Uh, there's many other things w- with technology that have moved along, uh, in my short time here in the legislature that we've had to update, and I believe this is just another measure. [1:16:35](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4595s) I'm still trying to figure out that virtual dentistry. [1:16:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4601s) That's what I'm still trying to figure out. But, but what I do like is the city, if they turn something down, they gotta give that builder a list and give it to him in writing what his, uh, the shortage is or what needs to be corrected or what they're looking for. So we, we do need to get things expedited. I've seen it in a lot of my district where it's, it's got to be expedited. Thank you. [1:17:10](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4630s) Thank you. [1:17:13](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4633s) Thank you, Mr. Chair. Uh, and to the gentleman referencing Flo- Florida, uh, I live in Savannah, represent Chatham County, a portion of it. Uh, and I do remember, and I fact-checked myself while I was sitting here, uh, a lawsuit came across my screen for DR Horton, and inside of that lawsuit, they allege, uh, some of the issues for those consumers- And those homeowners came because of virtual inspections, uh, and the practice in how they used those virtual inspections, which has led to litigation in several states. [1:17:44](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4664s) And D.R. Horton is the largest home builder in the United States, and one of the practices they employed was virtual inspections, uh, to subvert that local process, mainly in Florida. Uh, so I don't think Florida is the best poster child for this as I have read all of the comments sitting here that those homeowners are now struggling, uh, to find a remedy because of the abuse of a virtual inspection. [1:18:09](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4689s) Uh, I heard the same thing, but it wasn't done virtually. It was done in person by... And that was with Lennar. [1:18:15](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4695s) With Lennar, but they, they, they've got an, a whole slew of lawsuits here. [1:18:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4699s) Yeah. [1:18:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4699s) Um, there are private inspectors and then the virtual inspectors as well. I, I was sitting here reading the whole thing. [1:18:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4707s) Then I'll just make a comment, comment to that as well. I mean, um, I'm sure there's lawsuits with in-person inspections, uh, as well. I mean, there's issues whether you're in person or you're virtually. I d- I don't know if the virtual part actually caused that lawsuit or not, but I think you'd have... If you researched it, you'd see lawsuits with in-person inspections where people make mistakes. [1:18:54](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4734s) But... Go ahead, Mr. Webb. [1:18:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4736s) To my friend from Savannah, is... You said that was with, what company was it? Horton? [1:19:00](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4740s) D.R. Horton. [1:19:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4741s) Okay. All right. And, and I think we have to be careful because of, I think it was said, something said a little bit earlier. And I hate to keep using the same phrase throughout the day. I don't like buzzwords. But we're gonna have bad actors in every profession. Um, there are contractors in my district that people talk about all the time. There's one or two, but there's hundreds of men and women who build homes in Columbus, in LaGrange, and throughout, that do really, really good work. So I think if we're gonna think that we go out there and everybody we find are gonna be the top shelf, I think we're gonna be disappointed. [1:19:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4778s) And so while we do have to be very careful to make sure that we're giving somebody the opportunity to, to do what's best for them, reduce costs of housing and other things, at the same time, when we run across those that don't do it right, we have to be careful that we don't paint with a broad brush. Mr. Chair. [1:19:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4797s) Thank you. [1:20:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4811s) We got Joel with ACCG. [1:20:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4818s) Mr. Chairman, would you be permitted to have somebody else on the list join me? [1:20:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4821s) Yeah, absolutely. [1:20:37](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4837s) Thank you, sir. Uh, good afternoon, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. My name is Joel Truss. I'm with the Association of County Commissioners of Georgia. We represent all 159 counties in the state proudly. I'm also joined by Mrs. Susan Carpenter, who's with the Building Officials Association of Georgia, and I hope I got that right. [1:20:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4856s) You did. [1:20:56](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4856s) Yes. So I'm gonna give a very brief statement, and then I'm gonna give the floor to her. So I won't hold you in suspense. Currently, we're working with the author of the bill and also across all channels to negotiate on this bill. We do not have a formal position at this time. Our hope is that we can, can continue to negotiate. However, we do have some serious concerns. At the top of that list is local control. No matter how you cut this process, it will cut back on what our counties can do in terms of permitting authority. This includes several processes that are not na- not county related, but we do have to oversee. [1:21:31](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4891s) This is state and federal mandates we have to do. Soil and erosion control, storm water management, things like that, that we have to oversee that are included in the process that naturally lengthen the timeline of any review. So that has to happen regardless of whatever shot clock we include here. We are concerned, our members are concerned preliminarily about the 10-day shot clock. We would ask for more time, and we're happy to work with you on seeing how we can make that happen. Other than that, we're happy to continue working with the author of the bill and this committee to see if we can get some good public policy out of this bill. [1:22:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4925s) And with that, whatever time I have left, I'll give to Mrs. Carpenter. [1:22:08](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4928s) And, and working with y'all, um, in GMA, the, you know, talking about days, increasing those days to 10 days, 'cause currently the way it is is just 10 days. [1:22:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4936s) Yes. [1:22:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4936s) But then, you know, also to be clear, like, if, if the 10th day falls on a weekend or a holiday, it bumps to the, the following Monday. [1:22:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4943s) Yes. [1:22:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4943s) But if it were increased, um, to a- [1:22:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4948s) Meeting in the middle [1:22:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4948s) ... meeting in the middle type between the 30 days and the... Well, I guess it wouldn't be meeting in the middle with 30 to 10, but... [1:22:34](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4954s) Yeah. I think right now we're welcome to meet in the middle, at least right now. We do believe that going to business days or at least 15 would help our members out quite a lot. It's just in terms of, like you said, holidays, any other sort of occurrence that will close the office would still be included in that. [1:22:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4968s) Mm-hmm. [1:22:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4968s) And I believe Ms. Carpenter has some more on that. [1:22:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4970s) Thank you. [1:22:51](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4971s) Hi. Thank you for having me. I, as he said, my name's Susan Carpenter. I rep- [1:22:55](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4975s) Hold one second. Uh, senator's got a question. Senator Ginn. [1:22:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4978s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:22:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4979s) Sorry about that. [1:22:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4979s) The, uh, my, my friends in local government, I, I know it's hard to put 10 days in effect. And if you had 15 business days, that, that way somebody's out on vacation for a week, they, they, you know, some small communities would need, need something like that. Would 15 business days, uh, work on the bill for you? [1:23:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4997s) I think it's a step in the right direction, sir. [1:23:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=4999s) Is that an answer of yes? It's a yes or no question. [1:23:22](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5002s) Yes, sir. Um, I... Ms. Carpenter. [1:23:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5007s) Do you mind if I answer that? [1:23:28](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5008s) Well, well, if you, you're representing all the, the counties and cities of Georgia, that works pretty good for me. [1:23:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5012s) Well, I am, uh, representing, um, all the building officials and cities and counties in Georgia when it comes to reviewing building permits. [1:23:40](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5020s) Okay. [1:23:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5021s) And so- Um, the issue that we have, as I said, I'm Susan Carpenter. I'm with the Building Officials Association of Georgia. We represent building officials for city and, and counties throughout the state. I will add that I, I, I am, I work for a private engineering company, so our company outsources building officials, building inspectors. We act as a building authority for several jurisdictions. I have Doraville, I have Dunwoody, I have Clayton County, I have Forest Park, I have College Park. [1:24:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5051s) We provide the in- uh, residential inspections for Atlanta. I'm the building official for City of Mulberry. I also have a team who is a third-party team. So we... I am b- on both sides of the counter. I understand thoroughly both sides. I have a team that provides third-party inspections in Atlanta and throughout the state. So, um, with regard to the 10 days, 10 days, it- it's impossible to- [1:24:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5081s) We're talking 15 business days [1:24:43](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5083s) ... however. It's impossible to apply those same standards to across the board. You cannot... When you're residential, commercial, when you're dealing with a, an accountant's office, 1,500 square foot in a strip center versus Mercedes-Benz Stadium, these are very complex building systems involving fire, electrical, plumbing, mechanical, many, many different components, many, many different types of reviews, many, many different agencies involved. [1:25:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5121s) We can't even start our reviews until other agencies have completed theirs because health department, fire, agriculture, um, you know, he- any, any other agency that has to review these, we can't begin ours because all of these systems are intermingled. If they have changes, deficiencies that they identify, for example, if the fire marshal finds a deficiency with an alarm system or a sprinkler system, that's gonna have changes to the electrical and plumbing system. [1:25:57](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5157s) So we can't even review the electrical and plumbing system until those reviews are complete. If the health department finds issues with the cookers, the exhaust system, the heat, the warming systems, any of their components, the size of their grease traps, anything that relates to plumbing, that relates mechanical, fuel gas, electrical, all of that, they make changes to those plans, that changes our plans. Same with any, uh, if it's a gas station that goes to the Department of Agriculture, the grocery stores, that goes to the Department of Agriculture. [1:26:32](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5192s) All of those reviews have to be completed before we can even begin ours. So just because somebody uploads their plans to the city or county, we can't even begin ours. So the clock should not start until we can... So the application isn't complete until we can start those plans. And to, to apply that slap on a 15-day review for a Subway that you would put for a, a 50-story high-rise or a hospital or a prison or a school or Mercedes-Benz or the Georgia World Congress Center, it's, it's, it does- it's, it's not appropriate. [1:27:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5238s) And that is putting speed over a comprehensive life safety and building safety review. So although many cases you can apply a 15-day plan review if it's a residential or if it's a simple commercial, you can't just across the board say that because they are very, very complex systems, and those have to be taken into consideration. Currently, Senate Bill 49 allows for the issuance of a permit if you haven't re- if at 30 days, if you haven't received comments on your plan review within 30 days, by law, you already, you get your permit. [1:28:04](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5284s) That's the current law, Senate Bill 49. Um, and although we are happy to... And there are bad actors, we understand, but there are also very responsive jurisdictions within the State of Georgia. That is a very, uh, serious matter that I hope that the committee considers when considering these limits. I would also like to clarify some, um, language on the virtual. Doraville, I'm the building official for Doraville. [1:28:36](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5316s) We also do v- virtual inspections in Doraville. We were one of the first. I attended hearings way back in 2019. I'm well aware of the requirements and the specifications set up for virtual inspections. First of all, it's not licensed inspectors. That's incorrect language. They're certified. There's no licensure for inspectors in Georgia. Secondly, there's only two paths for certification in Georgia for inspectors. That's the International Code Council or through our organization. [1:29:08](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5348s) Those are the two, the Building Officials Association of Georgia. Those are the only two paths recognized by the state. [1:29:16](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5356s) Florida has a different building co- code altogether than Georgia. We are under the 2024 building code with our own amendments. In fact, before this meeting, I left the Department of Human, Community Affairs, where I serve on the State Codes Advisory Committee, working on the permissive code adoptions for January 1st, 2027. That... They're completely different codes than Florida. As far as the documentation of an inspection, their company or other companies may document those. [1:29:55](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5395s) There's no requirement for it. So getting a virtual inspection, they may or may not keep records. There's no requirement. Also, they are very limited in the scope of what a virtual inspection should be. A water heater change-out, maybe an HVAC change-out. We used them very limited during COVID. It was a very good way not to have to enter somebody's home, and we could deal directly with the technician. [1:30:27](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5427s) Under no circumstances do we recommend using them for a framing or a complicated commercial inspection. There's no substitution for an in-person inspection, and they can be used at a limited capacity for a re-inspection if you have one thing- [1:30:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5448s) If I could stop you right there. [1:30:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5449s) Mm-hmm. [1:30:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5449s) I think Senator Ginn might have something that might ease your mind a little bit. [1:30:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5453s) I, uh, I, I wanna see the bill move forward. I wanna see things happen. I, I've got to run to another committee meeting. [1:30:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5459s) Uh-huh. [1:30:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5459s) Said my, my, uh, esteemed chair here is willing to concede, hey, let's, let's make this to single family residential homes. Let's, let's put a, you know, if we wanna put a cap of 10,000 square feet. I think there's a lot of things that you can do to the bill to, to get it there. Uh, and I hate to do this, Mr. Chair, but, uh, if you would entertain it, I would, would ask that, uh, are you in ok- agreement that we could table this till our next meeting? I do know there's other people that need to speak on it. One of the things I will tell you, I'm, I'm cognizant of the fact that the building inspection officials, they, uh, have asked that we do some things to protect them from, uh, bad dogs and bad people that are out there trying to assault them. [1:31:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5498s) Mm-hmm. [1:31:38](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5498s) And so one of the things, the virtual helps in that regard. There's a lot of positives that come about in this bill. [1:31:44](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5504s) Mm-hmm. [1:31:44](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5504s) And, uh, but to me, I think there's a couple things you need to work through. If, if, uh, ACCG's not ready to commit one way or the other, can, can, can y'all work together a little bit? Uh, I'm just ... I give off that as a suggestion if you're, you're inclined, and if so, then I'll make my motion. [1:31:59](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5519s) Yeah. You know, um, 'cause we've got another amendment as well extending that out to the ... We're covering several of the issues. Um, I'd like to move it forward if, if we could. [1:32:09](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5529s) Well, there's also some mandatory codes that are not included. The, uh, mechanical code is not included. The en- uh, energy code is not included in this. [1:32:20](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5540s) Mm-hmm. [1:32:20](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5540s) Um, and there is other, there's a lot of other things that really need to be addressed. Who is issuing the CO? There's no indication for that. [1:32:29](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5549s) Uh- [1:32:29](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5549s) Uh, so there's a lot of things that need to be addressed in this that, that, that haven't been, I believe. [1:32:34](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5554s) Uh, thank you. [1:32:35](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5555s) I'm willing to work with you, and in the spirit of working with you, and you, Chairman Ginn, I would agree to the 15 days. 15 business days. [1:32:42](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5562s) Thank you. [1:32:44](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5564s) Now, are you good with the, the single family residence, putting it to that? [1:32:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5568s) Mm-hmm. [1:32:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5568s) The, uh, uh, you know, instead of making a lot of, um, uh, different amendments to it- [1:32:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5573s) Okay [1:32:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5573s) ... would it be better to let legislative council kind of work through it for us, and then, then bring it back as, as a committee sub? [1:33:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5581s) Yeah. [1:33:01](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5581s) And would, would you be ... And I, I mean, we can call a meeting anytime you want to, Mr. Chairman. [1:33:04](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5584s) Oh, yeah. I know, I know we can. I've, I've got the amendment, Senator Howard. Ex- [1:33:13](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5593s) I wanna introduce ... Thank you. Um, I wanna introduce this amendment, and I appreciate the 15 business days. Just sounds like there's some, some other ... I mean, I really appreciate Sen- uh, the senator from the 47th's idea, 'cause I think a lot of our concerns have to do with scale, and if we can, you know ... But I, I don't know how on the fly, um, we're saying single family or 10,000 square feet or less, if there is a way to push, but just to make sure we cover that. I mean, I would feel more comfortable personally, because this is one piece, but there are, uh, a few others that I would feel more comfortable with that as well. [1:33:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5629s) Just respectfully. [1:33:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5630s) Thank you for your comment. [1:33:52](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5632s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, as you know, I am a nonprofit developer. Uh, I would love to see these changes come back in the form of a substitute, and I give you my commitment, if we could come back with a sub, I would absolutely make the motion do pass so that we would have all of this, so we're not- [1:34:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5646s) Even with the virtual piece? [1:34:08](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5648s) Mr. Chairman, if we came to some consensus and put some, some guardrails in with the other, uh, codes that need to be included, absolutely. [1:34:15](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5655s) Okay. [1:34:15](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5655s) I'll concede that I would support that. [1:34:17](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5657s) Okay. [1:34:18](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5658s) And come back with a sub. [1:34:19](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5659s) Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you. [1:34:22](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5662s) Mr. Chairman, I hate I gotta run. [1:34:23](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5663s) Oh, yeah. Go ahead. Go ahead, Senator. [1:34:26](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5666s) Hey, Mr. Chairman. I, I would just say in the spirit of this, this dialogue, um, well, l- let me ask a question. Um, you talked about the, the virtual inspections in Florida are a much more focused scope for a specific item. Are you, are you saying that the, it's a narrower scope that's being practiced in Florida than, than what's being contemplated in this bill? This is a, a broader scope of virtual inspections, what you're saying? [1:34:48](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5688s) I'm saying in Georgia, I don't know of any jurisdiction that is doing anything more virtually than, and I don't personally allow in the jurisdictions I work in, and I don't know about James, their president, but, uh, than anything more sim- simple HVAC change-out for residential or a T pole or a, um, water heater or maybe a correction of a simple deficiency that we can see very quickly. But a, there's no first pass, or that's not a term. [1:35:21](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5721s) It's a, it's, it's a ... If you're, if you're talking about a framing rough or a, a ceiling cover, a wall cover, or anything, those, um, are not appropriate for a virtual inspection because you cannot, um, see what you need to see. And I have very serious, um, reservations about out of state or any virtual inspector And, and especially out of state, no offense, but a state like Florida who has a completely different building code than the state of Georgia does. [1:35:58](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5758s) I mean, th- th- there's, there, there's commonality in international building. Obviously, Florida has their high, their high wind codes for South Florida, for Miami, and now it's Miami and Dade. And there's, those things exist. [1:36:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5771s) Right. [1:36:11](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5771s) That's a diff- that's a different world. I get that's a different world. And there's some things they've got, as you know, with strapping and all that. But I'm just saying for basic code stuff, it's pretty common, um, particularly inside the building. I, my concern is the ability to... W- what I've heard you say is, and this is, Mr. Chair, my concern is, is the replacement of a specific item to me is akin to like a punch list inspection. "Hey, get this fixed. Come back. Okay, th- there it is. You can see this? See this? Look, we got- got the weld done right. Okay, this is good. [1:36:41](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5801s) It's been fixed. Check." To me, that's consistent with a scope of like a punch list inspection. When you're talking about a all-around ground-up inspection- [1:36:49](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5809s) Right [1:36:50](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5810s) ... now, it's true, you can have inspectors that are lazy, they don't do their job. And it's not, not, not that n- even when you have individual people, doesn't mean every inspection goes great. Granted that, my concern is, is what you're saying is that when we talk about virtual, all virtual is not created equal. [1:37:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5826s) That's right. [1:37:06](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5826s) Looking at a specific thing, I'm cool with that. And that gets back what I th- think our common sense kinda tells us, a punch list inspection of these six items kinda makes sense. But a comprehensive inspection, um, there just feels to me like that is far afield from protecting the public. Um, and I have, I, I mean, listen, I have my fights with code officials. I'm not s... But I, I just, I feel like what I'm hearing you say kinda sh- kinda jives with my concern is a comprehensive virtual inspection does not constitute a complete inspection rubric. [1:37:40](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5860s) Correct. And I don't see language in here that says that's clear to me that it's optional at the local or, or county level. It doesn't, it's not clear that it's optional. [1:37:53](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5873s) So my concern, Mr. Chairman, is scope. I, I'm not as conc- Uh, uh, the timing, that may be some other people's issue. My issue is scope of what the inspection is for, from a virtual perspective. That's my greatest concern. [1:38:03](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5883s) Thank you very much. [1:38:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5885s) Mm-hmm. [1:38:05](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5885s) With that, we will, uh, end this hearing. Uh, it was a hearing only. We'll pick this one back up, uh, at our next meeting. Thank you very much for your testimony. [1:38:20](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5900s) You good. Bye. Thank you. [1:38:24](https://vimeo.com/1161226073#t=5904s) Our last item on the agenda is SB 447. Um, have been working with GMA and ACCG. Uh, we've addressed many of the concerns. This would be a hearing only, um, today. I think what I'll do, just in the case of time, we've got finance coming in after us. Um, I believe this, this next bill will take a while as well, dealing, um... So, uh, we'll table this bill as well, and we'll hear it next week along with the other bill. Thank you all. Uh, with that, we're adjourned.