House Agriculture & Consumer Affairs Committee, February 11, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:03:34

   We have a s- sign-up sheet, uh, if anybody, uh, is gonna speak to any of the bills. Uh, we got a sign-up sheet out there.

2. 0:05:44

   Well, good morning, everyone. Uh, welcome to the, uh, I don't know what version of the Ag Committee this is. What week are we, Anna?

3. 0:05:51

   Uh, day 17. I do know that.

4. 0:05:53

   Day 17. So things are moving along quickly. Uh, we'll open this up with a, a word of prayer, and I ask my Vice Chairman, Joe Campbell, if he would.

5. 0:06:07

   Father, we just come to you and, uh, thankful that, uh, we have the opportunity that you've given us to, to work for the people of Georgia, and we, we thank you for, uh, uh, this, uh, opportunity we have, and we, and we thank you that we look to you for leadership in everything that we do, and we pray your blessing on it in Jesus' name. Amen.

6. 0:06:28

   Amen.

7. 0:06:30

   Amen.

8. 0:06:30

   Thank you. Um, little bit of news with the committee, um, is things are starting to ramp up and more bills are getting put in the committee. I, um, made the decision to do a, uh, subcommittee. Um, Brent Cox is gonna head that subcommittee up, and we put, um, mainly some consumer bills, uh, in the, in that committee to, uh, try to make sure things, uh, moved along, uh, timely for the committee. And he will be having a meeting, I think, one day next week.

9. 0:07:01

   Many of you are on there. Uh, some are, some aren't, so we kinda split up the committee a little bit to, uh, to look at some of those consumer bills, um, for amount of, um, uh, time restraints we have here for one hour here at this committee. So, uh, we got two bills, uh, on the, um, agenda this morning, and we're gonna get right into, uh, HB 1182 first, and then we'll, uh, take up, uh, HB 947, which will be a hear and only, uh, bill this morning.

10. 0:07:35

    And so, uh, Chairman Rhodes, come to the, uh, table, or wherever you like to be, and, uh, let us, uh, talk about, uh, HB 1182. And I think, uh, I have a LC443415S.

11. 0:07:55

    Yes, sir.

12. 0:07:56

    Is that what you're working off of? Okay.

13. 0:08:00

    Is this on?

14. 0:08:00

    I'll let you have the mic.

15. 0:08:02

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning to, um, the committee members today. This is a real simple bill. Um, I know everybody says that, but it really is. Um, th- this is about, and I know y'all are very familiar with our soil amendment program, um, in the state that is administered by our Ag Department. It's an essential program that we've got to have, uh, in the state for many, uh, different reasons. But basically, what we, uh, strive to do, we've passed a number of pieces of legislation over the years, is we've got to strike a balance between industry and neighbors.

16. 0:08:35

    Um, as we're seeing more and more people move to the country, we're getting more and more problems and phone calls and complaints, and we're just gonna continue to do that. So we're trying to do things to protect neighbors and also protect the program, uh, as it sits with the Ag Department. And all this piece of legislation does is it says it's in line with the other buffers that we have. Application is 100 feet. And before, um... Well, right now, as it sits, 'cause we hadn't passed this, but at right now, we've got no, um, buffers or, um, nothing in code for storage or unloading, and that's all we're trying to do, is to keep everything in line, saying we must store it at least 100 feet from the property line, and we cannot unload from a public road.

17. 0:09:18

    And that's all this bill does, Mr. Chairman. I'll be glad to answer any questions.

18. 0:09:22

    Um, we've got one or two new members on this committee, might not be familiar with what a soil amendment is. Could you describe a little bit for our new members, uh, what it is, where it comes from, and the need for a land application?

19. 0:09:38

    Well, basically, we're hearing more and more about this because, of course, as y'all know, we're a very successful state. We're having more and more people move to this state, and we're, our industries are also growing very, very quickly. You know, just for instance, people don't realize this, but we process 30 million pounds of chicken a day in the state of Georgia.

20. 0:09:54

    Yeah.

21. 0:09:55

    So, uh... That's right, Mr. Gainesville. That's, that's right. So, you know, basically, the, the wash down and the waste and the things from these processing plants have to go somewhere. As y'all, y'all are fully aware, our municipal water treatment plants are, are full. They cannot take any more, and we run into problems of where to go. And basically, this is a program that is beneficial for industry and also beneficial for the farmer when done correctly, and we're, we're really working to make sure everybody does it correctly.

22. 0:10:25

    But basically, we're taking the organic waste from those processing plants, uh, we've got Pu- Purina in Hartwell, which is the, the dog food, cat food plant, organic waste and using it as soil amendments, uh, for farmers. Uh, the high price of fertilizer and things of that nature, farmers really like this. And, um, we're just trying to co-mingle and strike a balance between industry and being good neighbors.

23. 0:10:53

    I think, uh, you have some specialized equipment that, uh, drill that, uh-

24. 0:10:57

    We, we've gone back-

25. 0:10:58

    ... in, in

26. 0:10:59

    ... we've started many, many years ago, uh, numerous years ago, I passed legislation that actually got, uh, a few more people in the budget that we could go out to make sure this process is being done correctly. So now we have, if you wanna call them soil amendment police, we'll call them soil amendment police. We've got three. That we used to just have one, now we have three. And then we, uh, our ag commissioner, when he was in here, he did, uh, some buffer work. on buffers. And, uh, Chairman Leverett has also passed a piece as a couple of legislation.

27. 0:11:30

    And that's what we're doing. We do not need to upend industry and cause a, um, um, problem as far as our production lines and ti- we do not need to do that. But what we do have to do is we've got to try to take care of our citizens and strike a balance so, um, they can enjoy their life at home and on their farms.

28. 0:11:51

    Yeah. The Department of Ag has a depart- has a team that, uh, regulates these things. Got, um, regulations under Department of Ag, I believe, as well as things in code that we have. And, uh, so they, uh, they are monitoring, um, the applications of these. Is that not correct?

29. 0:12:09

    Yes, sir. They do. And they're getting better and better and, and, you know, it's kind of one of those things we kind of all learn as we go along. And Department of Ag and our Commissioner Harper is doing a really good job. He's actually got a team that is dedicated to this now. So it's g- it's got a lot more eyes and a lot more oversight than it's ever had in the past.

30. 0:12:28

    Okay. We got, um, uh- Sorry. Uh, we've got a few questions, uh, for you and, uh, Representative Carter.

31. 0:12:35

    Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Good morning. Thank you, uh, Mr. Steele, and thank you for the explanation that you were giving, 'cause that was helping me. But I really wanted to understand, um, are there any permitting requirements? Are there a- any streams, and is this only, I guess, manufacturing not necessary, just farms? And I'm trying to, I'm trying to make sure that even in, um, urban areas that, um, we understand how this is a- affecting us, and I'd love an example.

32. 0:13:08

    Do you mean permitting to, for application to, to put it on your farm? Is that what you were asking?

33. 0:13:14

    Well, at any point. Uh, 'cause what I'm thinking about, we had a s- somewhat of a situation because the, uh, plant, there was I think a stream or something, so they had to get-

34. 0:13:24

    Oh, you mean for water.

35. 0:13:25

    Yeah.

36. 0:13:25

    Yes. We do have buffers for water, and the buffers for water and creeks and streams and wells-

37. 0:13:30

    Okay

38. 0:13:30

    ... are much bigger and greater than what they are for just application.

39. 0:13:35

    Okay. But-

40. 0:13:35

    So yes, ma'am, we, we do have, uh, setbacks and things in there for, for our water- waterways.

41. 0:13:41

    Okay. Just one point of clarity as well, because a lot of times we talk about rural, but, you know, farms are kind of almost everywhere in Georgia, so this is covering everybody in the state, not necessarily south in Georgia.

42. 0:13:55

    Yes, ma'am.

43. 0:13:55

    It's covering everybody.

44. 0:13:56

    This, this, this would be state. Yes, ma'am.

45. 0:13:58

    Thank you.

46. 0:14:01

    Okay. Uh, we've got one more question. Who is 28? Uh, Representative Mathis.

47. 0:14:07

    Chairman Rhodes, you know, several years ago we had problems with they were taking chicken, uh, parts and putting them over in certain places. Have we got that under control, in pretty good, good shape as far as... Uh, you know, I know chicken manure and, and, you know, that sort of thing is put out a lot. The only thing we can't stop is the smell for a day or two till the rain comes, but that's no problem because we know it's growing something. But, you know, we, do you remember us talking about that some time back? H- how have we addressed that part? I know we get these buffers, but, you know, they were putting whole chicken carcasses and parts in some places.

48. 0:14:43

    Yes, sir. Um, they have that... You know, a- as in anything, every now and then you have a, have an instance pop up that kind of, uh, raises eyebrows. Um, you always have, have a bad apple in e- every industry at some part, and, and the Department of Ag jumped on that and got that straightened out, and that's what they're doing with these, I call them soil amendment police. They're out there. Um, if they get a call, they get a complaint, Ag sends their team out there. They, they go over, they double-check everything to make sure that things are being done correctly.

49. 0:15:16

    And to be done correctly, this, these soil amendments have to be knifed in. They, they call it knifed in or, or, or drilled in or, or whatever you want to, want to, uh, use as your, your term. But that is the way that it's done now. Um, we passed that and made that where you just can't spread it out on the ground. It has to be put in, uh, underground to try to alleviate that odor that you're talking about.

50. 0:15:39

    Well, I appreciate that. My tribute-

51. 0:15:40

    Yes, sir.

52. 0:15:42

    Chairman Leverett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Chairman, I appreciate you bringing this bill. You, you know this has been a big issue in my district, some of which used to be your district, and it's an issue in your district, and it's a vital... The, the soil amendment program, I think, is vitally important to the state, and the commissioner has been making much more robust enforcement efforts in this area, which we appreciate. But to your point, you still got some bad actors. It's a really important program to agriculture.

53. 0:16:12

    We need to preserve it, and the way to preserve it is try to make it less intrusive on, on our community. So I appreciate you bringing this bill, and I would be delighted to make a motion at the proper time, Mr. Chairman. Okay, let's hold on to that. Um, um, uh, I see, um, Mike Giles, executive director of Georgia Poultry. Would you like to, uh, make some comments?

54. 0:16:33

    Yes, sir.

55. 0:16:33

    Go to, uh, to the podium-

56. 0:16:34

    I'll go to the podium

57. 0:16:35

    ... if you don't mind.

58. 0:16:36

    I beg your forgiveness.

59. 0:16:38

    Or you can go right there if you didn't-

60. 0:16:40

    Okay.

61. 0:16:40

    You can stay right there.

62. 0:16:41

    Be pleased to sit by Chairman Rhodes.

63. 0:16:44

    We're not, we're, we're not going box or anything.

64. 0:16:46

    No, we're... I appreciate our dialogue. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, my name's Mike Giles. I'm president of Georgia Poultry Federation. We represent poultry growers, poultry processors, and allied industry in Georgia. Georgia's the leading poultry-producing state in the nation. Um, thank you for the opportunity to, uh, to share some comments with, about House Bill 1182. As Chairman Rhodes said well, this program is vitally important to our industry. Uh, these are byproducts that, that come out of our wastewater treatment systems, pretreatment systems prior to the water being, uh, sent back to, uh, or the, the wastewater to be sent back to the city for further pro- further processing.

65. 0:17:27

    Uh, it has, it's called a soil amendment because it improves the soil. It improves the, uh, productivity of the agricultural land, and, uh, farmers that use it, uh, swear by it and, and, and like the effect that it has on, on their land. Um, I'll just speak to, um, the two provisions. The first I'll speak to is, um, uh, begins on line 36. I believe we're working off of a sub. This one? Yep. Um- And that, that prevents the, uh, prohibits the loading and unloading of these materials, uh, from a public road, from within a public road.

66. 0:18:06

    Um, these, uh, materials come from the, uh, at least the p- p- poultry processing plant, uh, tractor trailers and tanker trucks. So these are large vehicles. And, uh, there are some circumstances on a field where, uh, pulling into the field is not practical. Uh, and of course, uh, the concern there, um, well-stated concern there is, uh, traffic safety on the road, making sure that, uh, uh, passengers can, uh, passenger cars can con- con- continue to maneuver around, around those roads.

67. 0:18:40

    But there, there are fields where it's impractical, uh, to pull, uh, these large tractor trailers into the, uh, say, a pasture because of the, with the road turning radius, the c- the curve in the road or, or the characteristics of the, of the pasture itself. Um, the other provisions begin on line 34, I think, has, um, a bit more impact, uh, on the, um, on our, our operations. Uh, this would move the loading and unloading, uh, into the interior of the field beyond the current, uh, 100-foot buffer so that you're gonna have loading, you have tractor trailers pulling into the pastures or the fields, uh, um, into the interior.

68. 0:19:25

    You're gonna eliminate some application area, and in some ways that's counterproductive to, uh, the overall goals of the program in which we want to, uh, have more land to splet- spread this material out, uh, throughout the state. Um, and, and it also from a, from a landowner standpoint, uh, there are benefits. Uh, you can, I sh- I can show you pictures of the benefits and agricultural productivity, uh, from using this material when it's used appropriately. Um, but pulling tractor trailers into a pasture, uh, and having to go that far in, uh, can, could cause landowners to say, "This is not for me.

69. 0:20:04

    I'm gonna use commercial fertilizer or, or, uh, some other, some other method." So, uh, I, I understand and appreciate the goals and the dialogue we've had, Mr. Chairman. And, um, and if this, if this bill moves, uh, I, I appreciate the opportunity just to continue the dialogue, especially about, uh, lines 34 and 35.

70. 0:20:26

    That's all, Mr. Chairman.

71. 0:20:27

    Okay. Uh, thank you, Mike. Um, appreciate those comments. Um, so, um, uh, seeing no other questions, um, I did hear, uh, a motion a moment ago from, uh, Chairman Leverett. Uh, is that, uh, now would be a time for you to make that motion if you'd like to.

72. 0:20:49

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. While greatly respecting the, the concerns Mr. Giles has, I, I, I, my recollection is most counties limit application within property lines and are allowed to do so, so I don't see how you could actually store within feet, uh, within 100 feet of a property line. Although I'm sure dialogue will continue, I would like to move to pass.

73. 0:21:11

    Second.

74. 0:21:13

    Hear a motion and a second.

75. 0:21:15

    Second.

76. 0:21:16

    Second. Um, any other discussion or questions from the author? Hearing none, I'll call for a vote. All in favor of, uh, HB 1182, uh, signify, signify by saying aye.

77. 0:21:31

    Aye.

78. 0:21:32

    Opposed? Hearing none, bill passes. Thank you, uh, Chairman.

79. 0:21:36

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, members of the committee.

80. 0:21:38

    Thank you.

81. 0:21:41

    Okay.

82. 0:21:42

    Thank you commi- uh, committee. We got a big committee. I know there's a lot of, uh, conflicts, uh, going on in this building with the other committees. I appreciate b- being here, and with great anticipation for the last few weeks, we have, uh, HB 947 coming to committee. And, uh, thank you, Chairman Martin Han, and others in the audience for working on this bill, uh, very diligently and with lots of, of, uh, hours of time spent, uh, on this important piece of legislation.

83. 0:22:17

    Uh, so, um, Chairman Martin Han, I'll turn it over to you.

84. 0:22:26

    Well, thank you. Good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for an opportunity, uh, to present this substitute bill. Uh, committee members, you'll find, uh, a new copy of the bill. Should be... Let me give a LC number. You'll find LC 46-1433, which is a committee substitute for House Bill 947, in your folders.

85. 0:22:54

    This is a bill that has a lot of moving parts, Mr. Chairman, and so we're gonna take our time with this, if that's okay. I know that we've got other speakers here today, but I do want to make sure I answer as many of the committee's questions, uh, during my testimony, uh, that I can. This legislation is about something simple but very important: making sure that Georgia administers a supplemental nutrition assistance program responsibly, transparently, and in full alignment with federal law, while protecting the taxpayers who fund the program and preserve benefits for the Georgians who truly need them.

86. 0:23:34

    SNAP is a federally funded program. Uh, I think, uh, in the last calendar year, Georgia received 340 bi- I'm sorry, $3.4 billion, um, in, in SNAP funds. It does consist of about 80% of the federal, uh, farm bill every year. It is a large portion of our nation's, uh, budget But it is administered through the states.

87. 0:24:04

    That means that Georgia carries responsibility for eligibility decisions, verification, program integrity, and stewardship of the public trust. And when errors happen, when eligibility goes unchecked, or when systems fail to keep up with some real-world changes, it is the state of Georgia that answers for it. So this bill does three very big things. First, it modernizes eligibility and verification. It requires timely verification, shorter certification periods for high-risk cases, and continuous data matching so that eligibility reflects real life, not outdated paperwork.

88. 0:24:45

    Second, it strengthens program integrity and accountability, ensures that major policy decisions like waiving federal work requirements are made by elected representatives of the people, not through administrative actions alone. It also improves fraud deterrence, enhances EBT card security, and provides clear guidance to retailers consistent with federal law.

89. 0:25:09

    This bill is not about taking benefits away from eligible families. It is a bill about protecting the program so it remains sustainable, credible, and focused on the people it was designed to serve. And with that, Mr. Chairman, we'll try to go line by line and answer questions, uh, to the committee. Yeah, we're gonna skip down to section three. Uh, that's, uh, 49-4-23A.

90. 0:25:38

    Lines 35 and 37 bars Georgia from granting categorical eligibility, uh, based on non-cash, in-kind, or other benefit unless federal law expressly requires it. And practically, this is aimed at limiting broad-based categorical eligibility expansions. So if you imagine, just in simple terms, if a citizen or recipient were to receive TANF or non-cash benefit that way, they would not be automatically eligible for SNAP under this new law.

91. 0:26:11

    They would have to be eligible for SNAP, uh, on their own merits for that particular program.

92. 0:26:19

    On lines 38 through 45, it freeze, it freezes or limits Georgia's ability to use gross income standards higher than federal standards referenced, uh, on January 1st, 2026. Use resource limits higher than those in 7 USC 2014 G1, um, except for certain vehicle, uh, and resource treatments also described in the same code section. And unless federal law requires otherwise, repeats that categorical eligibility and exemptions from those standards can't be granted based on non-cash, in-kind benefits unless they are federally required.

93. 0:26:57

    And so you'll see that a lot in this bill. Uh, this is a federal program, and that's where the enforcement actions are. So while we can, uh, while we can alter maybe eligibility in the way that we handle those eligibilities and the cadence in which we handle eligibilities, we can't actually enforce, uh, these. We rely on our federal partners to do so. Uh, lines 46 through 47 allows alternate vehicle allowance standards as authorized by federal law.

94. 0:27:32

    Lines 48 through 51, it requires certifications periods no longer than four months for households with zero net income or households that include an able-bodied adult without dependents or other households deemed unstable by the department unless federal law prohibits that limitation. Lines 52 through 54 require a one to two-month certification period for households DFCS determines will become ineligible within 30 days unless federal law prohibits.

95. 0:28:04

    Lines 55 through 60 for any expedited services. So this kind of came up in the last administration as we want to make sure that families are getting food fast. Okay. So if you imagine you're in a situation where you need these benefits in an expedited manner, we agree with that. We want to make sure the families are getting the food that they need quickly. But that also puts an increased burden on the state that we need to rise to. We need to rise to that standard, and we need to make sure that, that those eligib- the eligibility for that family is also met in an expedited manner.

96. 0:28:44

    A 30-day verification requirement requires DFCS to verify all eligibility criteria for applicants and all household members within 30 days of application. So that's a big change. There will be no second month without that verification. You'll find that on lines 65 through 71. If verification wasn't completed during the expedited processing, it must be completed before the second month's benefits are issued, and DFCS cannot issue month two benefits if a household fails to provide documentation within that 30-day window after notice and opportunity to cure, consistent with those federal, federal SNAP rules.

97. 0:29:25

    So then we're gonna drop down. We're gonna go to code section 49-4-24. And that's where we start talking about data matching and automated verification. Lines 73 through 76 requires DFCS to establish a data matching agreement and automated verification procedure to detect changes affecting SNAP eligibility.

98. 0:29:47

    See on lines 77 through 80, uh, we are asking for a monthly review of Department of Public Health information for eligibility that impacts changes to their eligibility for SNAP. Lines 81 through 84 is a quarterly review of Department of Labor in- information, employment, or wage changes. Lines 85 through 88 is a monthly review of information suggesting changed circumstances, circumstances, uh, including potential residency changes inferred from out-of-state EBT transactions.

99. 0:30:21

    Lines 89 through 93, a quarterly review of data from the Centralized Employee Registry for unreported employment income wage changes. Lines 94 through 97 for monthly review of Department of Corrections information, uh, as to the status of someone's residency changing, right? If, if you're incarcerated, you would not be otherwise eligible. Lines 98 through 109 is a monthly review and action on spe- specified federal sources including Social Security, uh, death, incarceration, beneficiary, pension data sets, National Directory of New Hires, FBI fleeing felon data, and National Change of Address data.

100. 0:31:04

     Lines 110 through 116 requires data match with the Georgia Lottery Corporation to identify households with lottery winnings at or above applicable resource limit for elderly disabled households, if permitted. Authorize MOUs, data sharing agreements, with other federal or state agencies that DHS may find necessary to obtain and share needed information. 121 through 123 allows contracting with independent vendors for additional data indicating eligibility impacting changes.

101. 0:31:39

     Lines 125 through 128, DFCS may not seek, apply for, accept, or renew a waiver of work requirements under cited federal authority without specific authorization from the General Assembly in a duly enacted statute. And I'm gonna underline that, and that means that we're moving some agency authority back to the General Assembly here. We wanna make sure that if they're asking for a waiver from the federal government as it pertains to these work requirements, that they are gonna come see us first, that we agree with that.

102. 0:32:11

     That is, um, it's an, an important part, um, of what we do here, is considering large changes like that. Lines 129 through 130, DFCS may not use the state option to provide exemptions from the federal work requirement under the cited provisions. We're gonna go down now to lines 132 through 139. This is a new code section, 49-4-26. And so we're gonna redefine what an EBT card is. And so the US Department of Agriculture has allowed for a new chip and PIN program that takes the magnetic stripe card that you guys have so commonly seen.

103. 0:32:51

     Um, while it will be a backup, there will be a magnetic stripe on the card. Uh, y- you guys all have credit cards in your pockets. They all have chips on them. This updates that technology to reduce fraud. Um, these cards are getting their magstripes stolen, and those benefits are disappearing. Um, that's a pretty deep well when you start talking about the fraud and how these cards are getting stolen from our recipients here in Georgia. It's a shame, uh, and there's more work to do, but that's a great start.

104. 0:33:22

     The chip and PIN system is a great start. Um, on the EBT cards themself, it requires a Georgia-issued EBT card to display the participant's full legal name. Also, a statement now citing applicable Georgia or federal law prohibiting unlawful sale, trade, or transfer. And also on the card will be printed the USDA SNAP Fraud Hotline and reporting instructions for the, for the folks that would be reporting, uh, those, um, unlawful sale, trades, or transfers.

105. 0:34:01

     I wanna remind the committee that nothing in 49-4-24limits lawful use of the EBT card by legally authorized individuals under federal law. This is not to prevent a family member or somebody else from using these cards. We want them to get the food that they need and the nutrition that they need. But what we don't want to do is, uh, is promote any type of fraud or unlawful use of these cards.

106. 0:34:32

     Um, conditions to receive SNAP in Georgia under 49-4-26(1) and (2), you'll see on lines 149 and 154, uh, that conditions, uh, receipt of SNAP benefits in Georgia on verifying, uh, US citizenship on application and recertification, which is consistent with federal law. That is a update on our end just to make sure we're consistent with, uh, HB 1, One Big Beautiful Bill, meeting all applicable federal SNAP work requirements for the household category, which is now also compliant with One Big Beautiful Bill.

107. 0:35:07

     Lines 155 through 156, recipients must recertify eligibility, uh, consistent with 7 CFR Part 273.

108. 0:35:18

     Thank y'all for your patience. I know this is a big bill. There's a lot of moving parts. On lines 157 through 166, we are authorizing the Georgia Department of Agriculture coordinating with DFCS to pursue any grants, and this is only permit. We just say may. This is not a, uh, this is not a shall. That was changed. We wanna make sure we give them the, uh, the latitude that they need to, uh, to get any of these USDA grants or technical assistance. We want SNAP dollars to stay in Georgia, right?

109. 0:35:49

     So we wanna promote that. We wanna make sure that we're offering as much training as is feasible to farmers markets so that families can get more nutritious food. I think that's the goal, uh, for everybody here. We wanna see more families with more nutritious food, and this is what 157 through 166 aims to achieve. 167 through 172 requires DFCS and DHS to submit an annual report by December 31st summarizing former market vendor par- participation, implementation, issues or unintended consequences and recommendations so that we can improve that program as years go by.

110. 0:36:30

     On lines 173 through 180, uh, we prohibit u- uh, using SNAP benefits to purchase, and this is a very concise, um, description here, food or beverage in a food service establishment or customized beverages prepared on-site for immediate individual consumption, including hot beverages prepared, mixed, blended in a food sales establishment or cold beverages prepared, mixed, blended in a food sales establishment.

111. 0:37:05

     So what does that mean? Many of y'all know that you've seen maybe there's a coffee shop in a retail food store. And I don't know which one it would be, but I, I've heard there are some different types of drinks that you can buy inside these grocery stores. Mm. I don't know which one it is. However, I will say that we're just reaffirming federal statute that those cannot be purchased with a SNAP card. And I think that everybody would agree that those kinds of drinks shouldn't be bought with a Supplemental Nutrition Assistance program.

112. 0:37:47

     On lines 181 to 183, it authorizes DFCS to issue guidance to SNAP retailers clarifying benefits can't be accepted for those types of items, those blended, uh, mixed, or prepared beverages, and requires affected retailers to implement point-of-sale controls, ensuring benefits can't be used for those items. Uh, states, just to rem- as a reminder, and we put that in the next code section under 187 and 188, states enforcement of this code section remains the exclusive jurisdiction of USDA, and we're not changing that.

113. 0:38:22

     With that, Mr. Chairman, Committee, that pretty well sums up the bill. Now, this bill has had many iterations as we've worked with our partners across the state, and as things have changed, conditions on the field have changed. Um, one of those things is making sure that we both retain the credibility of the SNAP program, but also the sustainability. As many of y'all have probably seen, there have been recent reports. Um, those reports have indicated that under the One Big Beautiful Bill, if our error rates, which is what this bill's about, is about waste, fraud, and abuse, making sure that our error rates are under control in the state of Georgia.

114. 0:39:05

     If we don't, a large percentage, or a percentage I should say, of the SNAP benefits that we receive could impact the SNAP program, uh, in its totality. Those reports have indicated up to $490 million of impact against the SNAP program, and that's just something that, that our residents and our recipients can't afford to lose. With that, Mr. Chairman, I'll turn it back over for questions, and I appreciate the Committee's time this morning.

115. 0:39:36

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for, uh, presenting this bill. Uh, the Committee, as you can tell, it's a lot in here. A lengthy bill with a lot of, um, er, um, lines. Um, and, um, appreciate your work on it. These, the, a lot of hours have gone in this bill. This sub is, uh, a, a, a good bit different than when it started off. Um, before we take questions from the, um, from the Committee, I'd like to ask, uh, I see in the audience, uh, uh, our Department of Family and Children Search, uh, Services, Candice Broce is here.

116. 0:40:12

     And, um, I wanted her to, uh, if she would, uh, um, speak to the Committee a little bit about this bill. Uh, maybe not so much about the bill, but about what their responsibility with, uh, SNAP, uh, is, and, uh, just some comments. And I see she has, um, a very capable, uh, accomplish there, uh, this morning. Regina Quick, uh, good to see you this morning, for- former colleague. Um, Commissioner, would you like to, uh, address the Committee?

117. 0:40:44

     You can go to the, um, uh, up there if you'd like.

118. 0:40:51

     You'd be offended if I closed the, the laptop so I can put my notes up here?

119. 0:40:56

     No.

120. 0:40:56

     Okay.

121. 0:41:00

     Well, good morning everybody. My name is Candice Broce, and I'm the Commissioner of the Department of Human Services. And one of many, many programs that we oversee is SNAP, um, the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program, but most people still refer to it as food stamps. Um, this program is one that while we run it day to day, it is still, um-

122. 0:41:27

     Do you have an extra one?

123. 0:41:28

     ... technically overseen, regulated, highly regulated, um, and funded at this moment by the USDA, um, specifically by their Food and Nutrition Service. So that is, that's the entity that we work with when we're trying to make sure that we're, uh, meeting their metrics and following their rules. Um, so we're really looking forward to, um, working on this bill. And, and, um, you know, we, we've already started the process of trying to move toward compliance with all of the changes that, um, are coming, that have come out of the One Big Beautiful Bill, H.R.1.

124. 0:42:09

     And, you know, the Governor's made some recommendations in his budgets for us to, to get there. It's gonna require a lot of technological changes. And, and, um, already just in recent years, we've been incredibly fortunate that he and the legislature, um, have You have all supported additional staff, um, that we've been able to recruit and really build up our ranks, which is gonna be critical to our success whenever we're trying to drive the payment error rate down. So, um, you know, I didn't have a ton of time to prepare, like, super, you know, a speech or anything.

125. 0:42:42

     I'm gonna do my best to cover what is a wildly complicated topic. Um, but if you wanna jump in at any point, don't be shy. Um, you know, i- just for some basic statistics, um, for SNAP in Georgia, we have a little over 1.4 million people in the state that get SNAP. Um, the average benefit, and w- we, when I say benefit, the way that we refer to it is we p- it's EBT for us, electronic benefit, um, that we put on a card for people to use.

126. 0:43:17

     The average monthly benefit is $393. Um, right now we split the cost of how we administratively pay for the program with the federal government. Um, that is going to change. Um, that has nothing to do with the payment error rate. That's just going to change. It's gonna, um, our share of that administrative cost is going up, um, and theirs is going down. Uh, what is going to be dependent, um, on the payment error rate, um, in terms of our cost sharing, um, is what I'll get into more detail later and the strategies that we're gonna try to deploy.

127. 0:43:58

     But right now, all of the benefits that get issued to people that are eligible for SNAP, um, are totally federally funded, and that's the part that if we don't get our payment error rate down to under 6%, the state will have to pay a percentage of the overall amount of benefits issued, and that will be a very, very high number. So that's why it's really important that we, we get there. Um, so again, USDA Food and Nutrition Service is the regulator for us.

128. 0:44:30

     Uh, we have about 2,000 DFCS caseworkers that, that handle this work day to day. Um, let's see. The system that we use is Georgia Gateway. Um, it's a system that several state agencies use and to run several programs. So when we talk about Medicaid, that's in Georgia Gateway. SNAP is in Georgia Gateway. TANF is in Georgia Gateway. Um, WIC, also in that system. Um, CAPS, which is subsidized childcare, is also in that system.

129. 0:45:02

     So you have multiple state agencies, DCH, my agency, DCAL, and DPH, all using this integrated eligibility system for different programs, which means, you know, it can get kinda complicated in ter- in terms of governance, right? But at the end of the day, DCH is the entity that holds the contract with the vendor. Um, and so my staff, you know, uh, provides a lot of assistance in terms of, um, handling the technology and doing testing, but the DCH is the contract holder with the vendor.

130. 0:45:33

     Um, there've been a lot of changes with the One Big Beautiful Bill. Let me get right into the payment error rate. Georgia, um, unfortunately and fortunately, believe it or not, uh, we're one of the highest states for payment error rates. Um, but f- the fortunate part of that is that we have a delayed implementation, um, for the possible cost sharing components, which I told you are gonna, could be dramatic. So, um, how do you calculate a payment error rate?

131. 0:46:04

     Before I get into that, does anyone have any questions so far? Okay. Okay.

132. 0:46:14

     Mr. Chair, I have a question. Um...

133. 0:46:18

     Go ahead.

134. 0:46:18

     J- just all of the, um, an acronyms you were-

135. 0:46:21

     Yes

136. 0:46:22

     ... using. So there's TANF, SNAP-

137. 0:46:24

     Yes

138. 0:46:24

     ... WIC. So what, just briefly, what, what is the purpose of-

139. 0:46:27

     So TANF is cash assistance.

140. 0:46:31

     Is it something assistant to needy families? Is that what-

141. 0:46:33

     Yes

142. 0:46:33

     ... potential?

143. 0:46:34

     Temporary assistance.

144. 0:46:35

     Temporary, okay.

145. 0:46:36

     Mm-hmm.

146. 0:46:38

     And that's cash.

147. 0:46:39

     Mm-hmm.

148. 0:46:40

     And then SNAP is the one we're talking about right now, which is basically, uh-

149. 0:46:44

     Food stamps

150. 0:46:45

     ... food stamps.

151. 0:46:45

     Mm-hmm.

152. 0:46:46

     WIC is?

153. 0:46:47

     WIC is a program that DPH oversees, and it's also, um... That also goes on the EBT card, correct? Yeah, yeah. And so that's also a, a, a, essentially a cash benefit that's issued to eligible families with children.

154. 0:47:02

     Okay.

155. 0:47:03

     Very small children.

156. 0:47:05

     Okay.

157. 0:47:05

     Formula. Yeah. Baby food. Yeah. Benefit. It's for food benefits.

158. 0:47:09

     It's food.

159. 0:47:10

     Everyone's t- telling me, uh, you know, um, it's for a very small children, like baby formula-

160. 0:47:14

     Okay

161. 0:47:14

     ... those kinds of things. Yeah.

162. 0:47:16

     Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair.

163. 0:47:17

     Yeah.

164. 0:47:17

     Presentation.

165. 0:47:18

     Okay. Yeah. Anyone else? Okay. All right.

166. 0:47:21

     Okay, go ahead.

167. 0:47:22

     Okay. The payment error rate. Um, so here's how the payment error rate gets calculated for states and territories running their SNAP program. Um, so

168. 0:47:37

     what we do at the state level is that we have a plan that we have submitted to our federal regulators that outlines how we're going to pull a sample of cases out of the overall pile, if you will, of people that get SNAP in our state, and we check our work to see if we did a good job determining their eligibility and determining what they were entitled to receive in terms of the amount of the benefit. Um, we're looking for if we underpaid them, and we're looking if we overpaid them. And then once we look at that sample, which is a different team of people looking at it than the regular caseworkers, once we determine that amount based on the sample, we extrapolate it for across the pool of total people, and we send that number up to the feds, and they also check our work, and that's how you get the percentage.

169. 0:48:33

     So, um, Georgia, uh- Let's see.

170. 0:48:40

     Have, um... Okay. One of our most recent calculated payment error rates was, um, I think it was 15.5%, somewhere around there. That puts us in the top, I think it's we're the third top highest state for payment error rates. Now, what is considered... What, what goes into, um, uh, inaccuracies? What, what, you know, what counts as an in- inaccurate work? Um, this is where states and territories everywhere, doesn't matter if they're a blue state, red state, whatever.

171. 0:49:13

     When I go to conferences, we all complain about this. Um, we all get penalized for our errors. Okay? We also get penalized for client errors, and that's where it's just, you know, we all just get really frustrated by that, right? Because we try to build a lot of interfaces into the system so we can gather external information about people, um, and we, we do our very best, but at the end of the day, we don't know what we don't know. Um, we do have to rely on what we receive.

172. 0:49:44

     SNAP is not like Medicaid. It's not a pretty straightforward... I don't know if y'all think that Medicaid's straightforward in terms of eligibility, but for us, compared to SNAP, it's a breeze. Um, and so SNAP is just so contingent on a person's individual circumstances, and it's just not a standard formula. So, um, if you don't, if you don't know something or someone doesn't tell you the truth, it's really hard to ascertain. And so then being penalized for it, you know, we all gripe about that.

173. 0:50:14

     Um, the... Our federal regulators will let states, to an extent, sort of waive certain requirements about how you process cases. So this, so this bill is going to, in, in my opinion, it sort of takes the state back to basics. Um, and that will make it easier for the state to process cases. Um,

174. 0:50:40

     the... And there are some states that have sort of stayed in that posture all along. Um, I think Idaho is a good example of one that has, has been in this posture this whole time. Um, but states opt in and opt out of different things. They submit waivers to get special permission for how they process cases. But another thing that when I go to conferences, we all complain to each other is, we really don't get a lot of flexibility in terms of automation from federal regulators. So, you know, on the Medicaid side, we've gotten approval to automate from start to finish in most cases with, um, bots, is what we call them.

175. 0:51:17

     But it's a computer script how we process a case, and that's really good actually, because it takes the, you know, the human error component out, but it still has a human looking at it so that, you know, the final decision can be, um, reviewed and overturned if needed. You don't get that level of flexibility in SNAP. So someone has always gotta make the final decision. And you know, if we can't have any automation in this process, it means it's incredibly labor-intensive. Every single SNAP case is very labor-intensive.

176. 0:51:50

     Um, and there's a lot of human error. Um, the system that we use also is, is getting up there in age. And I, I mentioned in terms of governance, there's a lot of people playing in the sandbox. So, you know, it takes a while to make a change in, in the system, even minor ones, or what someone would consider a minor one. Um, so that's why we're already in the process of trying to implement changes. So I'll pause before I get into what some of those are, see if anyone has any questions, so I don't get into rambling mode up here.

177. 0:52:23

     Thank you, Director. Um, we do have some questions. Um, uh, Representative Stinson.

178. 0:52:29

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Commissioner, for being, um, present this morning. Uh, you mentioned just now about the, you were, in your discussion about the error rate-

179. 0:52:39

     Mm-hmm

180. 0:52:39

     ... you mentioned about the, um, the client errors-

181. 0:52:44

     Mm-hmm

182. 0:52:45

     ... um, the fact that, uh, there's underpay and overpay.

183. 0:52:48

     Yes.

184. 0:52:49

     What happens to, uh, the recipients? Uh, are they impacted about the underpay? W- if they were underpaid, does that mean they're gonna get more pay? If they were overpaid, are they gonna have to pay more back too? What happens in that part? And then secondly, what is it that we can do? 'Cause I have a constituent right now that I'm working with, your office is helping me with right now.

185. 0:53:10

     Mm-hmm.

186. 0:53:10

     Uh, and, and your office has been really great by helping me with constituents. Um, but what can we do to help, help our constituents better understand these processes? Uh, because in rural Georgia, as we all know, we are very limited in a lot of areas. Um, yes, we, this, this, this body has worked really hard to bring, uh, uh, rural broadband. But there's still some areas that don't have access, and a lot of these communities don't have transportation. So what can we do to help?

187. 0:53:39

     Yes. So, um, this is an entitlement program. And so if someone's not getting the benefits that they are entitled to receive, then they can in fact get them, and we have processes for that. Um, and I'm not gonna do them justice, because they are also very complicated. But we have policies that are posted online, and so I can get those to the entire committee. Um, and for overpayments, there is also a recoupment process, right? Um, which can be hard on people, frankly. Um, but it's something we have to do as a state, because at the end of the day, the state will be liable potentially for the whole amount of overpayments should the federal government ever decide that they wanna claw it back, um, and impose penalties for it.

188. 0:54:20

     So there are processes for that too. Internally, we have an office of inspector general that does a lot of this work for overpayments in, in the fraud arena. Um, so they report to Regina, and she makes sure that They do a very, they do a very good job, but they're really focused on these, like, more trafficking of benefits type cases and, and overt fraud. Um, and, you know, I can get in- more into some of the themes that we've seen recently, but, and I'm sure you've seen this, and I, I know you've seen it in the press.

189. 0:54:54

     Um, but certainly, uh, benefit theft is just rampant in this. EBT benefit theft is just rampant in this program. And so that's what we've been trying to look at in terms of more security and preventing people's benefits from being stolen since they're so vulnerable. Um, awareness. Um, this is part of one of the grants that we recently received from, uh, USDA FNS, and we're trying to work on a strategy to get materials out everywhere, um, for people. And, um, do we still have kiosks and all of the-

190. 0:55:26

     Yeah.

191. 0:55:26

     And we also did a statewide launch of kiosks with access to Georgia Gateway in...

192. 0:55:33

     4,400.

193. 0:55:33

     4,400. How many libraries was it?

194. 0:55:36

     Hundreds.

195. 0:55:37

     Hun- hundreds, I think. Over 100 libraries across the state. So that people... I know that's not a perfect way to get people access, but-

196. 0:55:45

     It's a start

197. 0:55:45

     ... we have our kiosks with access to our system in libraries and communities everywhere across the state, so that they can at least have access to Georgia Gateway.

198. 0:55:53

     D- Director, let's get to a few more questions.

199. 0:55:56

     Okay.

200. 0:55:56

     We- we're going long on the timeframe a little bit.

201. 0:55:58

     Okay.

202. 0:55:58

     Thank you. You've done a great. Um, r- um, number 16. Representative Cox.

203. 0:56:07

     Thank you, Chairman. Uh, thank you for this bill. I appreciate what you're, what you're doing here in trying to end fraud. Um, two questions, and I think it's implied, but this is just, I wanna ask a, a, I guess a friendly question. I know Title 49 in line one's referring to the Georgia Department of Human Services, but many places within the bill, it's using the word department, and then there's various departments. Would it... I'm just wondering if it would help if we're defining what actually department means since there's multiple places.

204. 0:56:40

     It's just an idea. Not sure. Um, and then the, the other would be, do we have a cost estimate, um, in what it's gonna take to establish and maintain these, uh, dating matching agreements? As well as on page eight, uh, J, it says, "Require affected retailers to implement point of sale controls." Just curious what kind of impact it has on your department, as well as what it may even have on retailers.

205. 0:57:13

     So we're still working on that. Um, and we'll, we can get that circulated, but we are still sort of crunching the numbers. We, we do have a lot of existing interfaces in the system right now, so we'll get those to you with those-

206. 0:57:24

     That'd be great.

207. 0:57:25

     Okay.

208. 0:57:25

     Yeah. Thank you.

209. 0:57:26

     Yeah.

210. 0:57:28

     Representative Lewis-Ward, do you have a question?

211. 0:57:30

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My question is to the author. Excuse me. Um, there are several hundred thousands of SNAP benefits who also receive SSI, and those, um, recipients are typically older adults, um, maybe blind or disabled. And, um, I'm just wondering would a carve out for them... What, what, what this bill says, everybody who's receiving SNAP will not be eligible to, um, get a hot meal from a restaurant or from a retail establishment.

212. 0:58:02

     It seems kind of unfortunate that if you're disabled or blind through no fault of your own, that now you won't be able just to go out maybe once a week, once a month to sit down and have a hot meal that you don't have to prepare yourself. Would it help to have a carve out for those who are disabled or blind, um, where that portion does not apply to them?

213. 0:58:23

     Well, thank you for the question. Um, and I wanna add just... First of all, I'm, I wanna say a couple things, then I wanna answer your question in just a moment. That is, that DHS and the commissioner has been wonderful to work with. They have been very helpful providing data. They've been, they've stopped by and talked with me in my office. I wanna make sure that y'all know that they have been just a, a blessing to work with. Uh, as with all the folks who have, uh, who have come and spoken to me about this bill.

214. 0:58:57

     Why is this bill important to me? I think it's important this committee understands I am a former child recipient of food stamps. I know how this program can benefit, uh, families in Georgia, and it can be used as a hand up, uh, to get families on their feet and raise children to be what I would consider successful. Now, I know some people on here would say maybe not so much. But, uh, but I'm, I'm thankful for this program, and I'm thankful for commissioners like Commissioner Rouse who are doing the hard work, even back in the day when I was a child.

215. 0:59:37

     To answer your question, this program, as commissioner said, has federal limitations. Hot prepared foods are a federal limitation. What we're doing here is we're just kinda doubling down on that and reaffirming that some of these items, specifically, uh, a coffee, no brand name needed to be mentioned, should not be able to be ordered under those federal regulations today. So that doesn't change anything that's, that's currently happening today.

216. 1:00:11

     That's an operation of federal statute. Um, we can't make any carve outs for that because that's a federal statute, and of course, their laws supersede ours. Um, I think that, that answers your question. I know we got a lot of people running for Congress, so, uh, great question for them, too, as, uh, as you advocate for that issue. But I, I, I have some sensitivity to them. I know that there are benefits available to them in other programs. Uh, it's just this program, uh, has those federal limitations.

217. 1:00:43

     Thank you.

218. 1:00:44

     Representative Cannon.

219. 1:00:47

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. To the commissioner and to the bill author, you mentioned some of the client error. Uh, what, what are some details in that? And kind of what does that mean in terms of what... Can you describe some more of that? And to both of y'all, is there a price tag on the amount of error we're seeing? What's, what's that costing the taxpayer in terms of an annual cost?

220. 1:01:10

     Yes. So, um, you know, the number one error for us is going to be related to income. So we just don't get the right information, um, related to someone's income. And, um, you know, the second-biggest category stems from something called periodic reports. Um, you know, under the Biden administration, we were strongly encouraged to adopt periodic reports, and that was because they were really pushing everyone to be more focused on timely processing of applications and renewals. Um, periodic reports means that we, um, more often are asking people to tell us that they don't have any changes, and so all they have to do is just say, "I don't have any changes." Now, it's a lot easier to say that, right?

221. 1:01:52

     And so that's, uh... They don't have to turn in any paperwork, and what we found is that, um, they do that even if there have been changes. And unfortunately, when they do that, and there have been, the penalty associated with the omissions is much worse than a regular, um, error or inaccuracy. Um, so, um, the, the math is, is complicated, but it is a lot worse for us, which means we think now that we're rolling that back, we're getting out of periodic reports, we'll see our payment error rate go down.

222. 1:02:24

     But really, income and periodic reports have been rough on us.

223. 1:02:28

     When you, you-

224. 1:02:29

     Mr. Chairman

225. 1:02:29

     ... Go ahead. Go. When you say income, do you mean they're just re- misreporting their income levels?

226. 1:02:34

     Yes. Or they... Or, I mean, it, um, it's also really hard for this particular population because they, they're, you know, they can be moving between jobs. Um, self-employment, you know, is, is sort of hard to track. And, um, there's just, there's just a lot of variables there, and I would say that's probably why.

227. 1:02:54

     Um, next question, Chairman Dubnik.

228. 1:02:57

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

229. 1:02:58

     What, uh, what number is that? 14.

230. 1:03:02

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, to the bill author, just to confirm to the lady's question, uh, a moment ago, uh, about those seniors and those who may be disabled, those, those, uh, those restrictions at the federal level sometimes can be waived in a, in a course of a natural disaster or something, uh, accordingly. Is that not correct, Mr. Chairman?

231. 1:03:21

     I believe that to be true.

232. 1:03:22

     Okay. Thank you. Mr. Chairman, follow-up for the commissioner?

233. 1:03:25

     Go ahead.

234. 1:03:25

     Um, Commissioner, you referred to automation.

235. 1:03:27

     Yeah.

236. 1:03:27

     And I think that's a word that, that... It's the other big A word next to affordability in our vocabulary today. How does that... And you referred to the need for that automation. How is that process overseen? Who gets to say yes to that? Who gets to say no to that? Who kind of verifies and checks that automation is occurring? Could you just speak to that word, please?

237. 1:03:49

     Yes. So it's been a longstanding interpretation by USDA Food and Nutrition Service, who oversee SNAP for states and territories, that you cannot automate the process of working through someone's eligibility for an application or renewal in SNAP, that ha- someone they s- they call it a mirrored employee, but what they're saying is a state employee, has to be doing that and pressing the button on whatever the final decision is. So they say that there's cha- changes coming. You know, um, we would like to see those sooner rather than later, um, especially because we need to start making those changes, uh, to get to compliance for the One Big Beautiful Bill and getting that payment error rate down.

238. 1:04:33

     Um, but, you know, we would like to use bots really because that's, it's a s- it's a script. There's no human error really. I mean, that would be the way that we'd wanna go. Um, but one of the tactics we are gonna use is, um, using more intelligent analysis of, um, indicators in cases where if we get to them early enough, um, flags in cases, we can, if we fix those errors early enough in the process with people, uh, then it won't count against us. Or if we use that analysis, um, and pull certain cases out of the overall pool because we detect or suspect fraud, then it cannot be part of the sample that's used to calculate the payment error rate.

239. 1:05:13

     So that's gonna be a very effective tool.

240. 1:05:16

     Okay. Um, we're about to run out of time a little bit. Um, Director, I appreciate you being here.

241. 1:05:21

     Thank you.

242. 1:05:22

     Um, we've got a few more questions, and, um, and, um, we might wanna invite you back next w- uh, next, uh, meeting. Uh, this is a hearing only, and we'll wrap this up. Uh, I got one other person, and... You, you okay?

243. 1:05:36

     Oh.

244. 1:05:36

     Okay. Um, we might... If you, if you got another minute, we got a couple more questions. Um, have you gotta be anywhere? Are you good- I, I'm where I need to be ... five more minutes? I'm where I need to be. Okay. We got about three more questions. Um, Representative Reese. Twittal. Right.

245. 1:05:54

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, and thank you, Commissioner. You have truly, uh, enlightened me and educated me on some internal processes today that I wasn't aware of. I do wanna talk about the 15.5% calculated payment error rate, and, uh, it's a very defined number there. I'm sure you break that down, and it sounds like there's two categories, overpayment and underpayment.

246. 1:06:15

     Mm-hmm.

247. 1:06:15

     Can you tell us, of that error rate, roughly what percentage is a overpayment and what percentage is a underpayment?

248. 1:06:21

     It's, you know, like, 70/30.

249. 1:06:24

     We'll get the exact-

250. 1:06:24

     We'll get the exact number, but, um, it's, it's majority overpayment.

251. 1:06:29

     Majority overpayment.

252. 1:06:30

     Yeah.

253. 1:06:30

     Okay. And we're finding that overpayment in the application process?

254. 1:06:35

     I think it's actually in renewals, right?

255. 1:06:38

     Yeah, it's all the quality control.

256. 1:06:39

     Yeah, yeah, yeah. But we, we have, um- more metrics than you probably care to see. But, um, but yeah, so I think it is more so in, um, in the, like, renewal process. So it's gonna be if someone that's been receiving benefits for some time. So-

257. 1:06:53

     So based upon what you've seen so far, would you say is that a staffing issue? Will we be needing to add more staff to meet these requirements that's gonna be in this bill? Because I'm seeing a lot additional workload, and I know that your department, y- your people work hard already, and I wanna make sure, or at least understand from this bill the impact that it's gonna have on a staffing perspective and what we need to do to get ready for that.

258. 1:07:19

     So, you know, first, you've already been incredibly gracious in giving us a lot of staff, and so that has been huge for us. But I also wanna be, make sure that I'm being an appropriate steward of state dollars. And I think that, um, what I would really love is if you could make a call perhaps to some of our, our federal partners, because, like, automation is really what we desperately need.

259. 1:07:41

     Mm-hmm.

260. 1:07:41

     We need some more flexibility there. I don't wanna ask for more people necessarily-

261. 1:07:45

     Yes

262. 1:07:45

     ... although that would always be great, until I can fully exhaust all of my options on that front, because, you know, if, if I can't do that, um, then, you know, that, it's just... I really do feel like that would go a really long way.

263. 1:08:01

     Sure.

264. 1:08:02

     Um, and that, that is gonna dramatically reduce, um, you know, errors, which is what we're trying to achieve here.

265. 1:08:08

     Thank you.

266. 1:08:09

     Um, I've got a question along those same lines like you. Uh, to reduce this error rate, is it attainable? I mean, and what, what cost will it take to, to attainable? And if we don't, the, the penalty, um, I mean, just, let's fast-forward a, a year from now, what are we gonna look like?

267. 1:08:32

     Um, so it is going to be incredibly difficult to at- attain. And I think, um, again, if you went to one of m- the conferences of all the people that run SNAP across the agency and you ask them, um, behind closed doors they say one thing, and you ask them in public they say something different. Um, it's really gonna be hard for us to attain it if we don't get some flexibility in how we run the program, I mean, frankly. And that's not a knock on anybody, but we gotta get with the century on how technology works, um, and that's what we're begging for.

268. 1:09:09

     Um, I totally understand the need to have... I understand the policy initiatives to make sure that states have some more skin in the game. But if you're penalized for things you can't control, and then you're also not allowed to have more control over things you could, you know, it's a little frustrating.

269. 1:09:27

     Um, thank you, D- Director. We're gonna have to wrap up. I know we got a couple more quick. Can you hold off on those till next meeting? Um, I wanna, I wanna... Our great friend Angela Holland's out here, signed up, a convenience store association. I want her to come speak to this bill, kinda wrap it up. Um, and, um, thank you very much for what you do for us in the Ante Room, uh, and all across our state. Great association of, uh, stores, and I would love your perspective on this bill.

270. 1:10:00

     Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, uh, members of the committee. I really didn't have a whole lot prepared this morning except for to, to say we've enjoyed working with Representative Momtahan and thank him for the consideration that he gave us in, uh, working on the language that would kinda mimic what's already in place for our industry, and working with the, um, members of the freedom, the Food Freedom Coalition. So we appreciate all the work that's gone into the bill. And I'll be glad to take any questions if you have them.

271. 1:10:27

     Okay. Um, uh, i- if we got a few more minutes, we'll go back to, uh, is, uh, Representative Herring still here? You had a question. You still got it, um, available on Number 15?

272. 1:10:44

     Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I wanna thank the commissioner for all the information that she gave us today. Um, and I do believe, and I thank you, Representative Monahan, for sending someone to my office to talk about the bill and my concerns. I, I do appreciate that, and you also adding the part about benefit fraud. That is a concern, um, so I do agree with that. But I, um, I support improving health outcomes for Georgia families, but HB 947 focuses on restricting what families can buy rather than addressing the food insecurity and food deserts and affordability.

273. 1:11:19

     Uh, without expanding access to health food, healthy food, this bill risk increasing hardships for families and harming small businesses with no clear evidence if it will improve healthy outcomes. So my question is, how does this bill help rural families living in food deserts where healthy options are limited or unavailable? And I know that with lines 173, um, through 188, we've discussed that. But I do have some concerns, because in some of our communities, especially rural communities, there are not a lot of options.

274. 1:11:55

     So I hope that you will take that in consideration and we can have more conversations about how we can help those families and support those families who don't have those types of options that we're looking for in the bill. So thank you.

275. 1:12:07

     Well, thank you, Representative Herring. And, and I think, um, you're probably looking at one of the older LC numbers. Um, and I, and, and that's okay. That, that was, you know, when you... I think y'all just got this copy this morning, so a lot of the language has changed to focus on the error rate. Um, as we've worked through this bill, it has become more and more evident that we needed to reduce the facets of the bill to make sure that we don't miss the point, and that is to reduce this error rate that we're all talking about today.

276. 1:12:37

     Okay.

277. 1:12:37

     That's, that's gonna be a team effort. As we address the food desert, that's why we kept that specific language in. Um, and the specific language being that we are trying to incorporate more SNAP benefits, uh, into being used at these farmers' markets. Here's a great thing about rural Georgia. They got a lot better access to farms than I do. Um, and so hopefully they'd have increased availability at farmers markets. Um, I did wanna ask something for the committee to think about.

278. 1:13:11

     This is not in this bill, but as we move forward with this bill and we think about food deserts in general, and that is, I said this to, uh, another representative, I said, "If the only thing that's holding you back, uh, you know, is a certain maybe non-nutritive food, you probably still are in a food desert," right? We need to make sure we do everything we can, to your point, that we get as many families in the state of Georgia nutritious food. And the heart of the bill is more nutritious food for more families, supporting Georgia grown, uh, right here in our state.

279. 1:13:47

     Yeah, and keep those SNAP dollars here.

280. 1:13:51

     Um, thank you, um-

281. 1:13:52

     Thank you

282. 1:13:53

     ... Chair Momtahan. Um, what, um, thank you. Um, we're gonna wrap this up. Thank the committee for your, uh, patience. I know this is a, uh, bill, and thank, uh, all parties for working with, uh, Chairman Momtahan on this bill. One more announcement. Uh, our, our committee dinner is next Wednesday night. You'll get another, uh, text from, uh, David Holston, but put it on your calendar. Wisteria, uh, next Wednesday, uh, meeting. Hope you can attend that.

283. 1:14:24

     Um, be on the lookout for, um, um, Subcommittee Chairman Cox. Uh, his meeting's, uh, next week, I think, um, uh, for some bills. Um, have a great day. Thank y'all.

284. 1:14:53

     Thank you.