--- title: House Transportation Committee, February 25, 2026 collection: meetings id: 2026-02-25/house-transportation cite_as: House Transportation Committee, February 25, 2026, video https://vimeo.com/1168109198 (machine transcript by Georgia Commons) canonical_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-transportation md_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-transportation.md text_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-transportation/text source_url: https://vimeo.com/1168109198 date: 2026-02-25 status: machine transcript corpus_version: meetings-2026-10-23-8c15ead0f18d license: Machine transcript and summaries by Georgia Commons from the General Assembly's public video; the video stays on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel; see about.md publisher: Georgia Commons, an independent project of Georgia Civic Data. Not the State of Georgia. Not legal advice. up: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25.md previous: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-ways-and-means-part-1.md next: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-higher-education.md index: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/index.md chamber: House body: House Transportation Committee body_url: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/house-transportation.md meeting_kind: committee session: 2025-2026 Regular Session start_time: 2026-02-25T16:00:00-05:00 location: 406 CLOB duration_seconds: 4807.0 video_id: 1168109198 video_title: Transportation 2.25.26 agenda_url: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/house/Transportation%2F022526 Meeting Notice Transportaion.pdf bills_discussed: - HB 1342 summaries_model: gpt-6.1-sol transcript_turns: 386 transcript_chars: 74796 parts: - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-transportation.md?start=0 - https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-transportation.md?start=59934 --- # House Transportation Committee, February 25, 2026 House Transportation Committee; February 25, 2026; 2025-2026 Regular Session. Video, on the General Assembly's Vimeo channel: https://vimeo.com/1168109198. Agenda: https://www.legis.ga.gov/api/document/agendas/house/Transportation%2F022526 Meeting Notice Transportaion.pdf. > This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays. ## Summary written by Georgia Commons Written by gpt-6.1-sol from the transcript below. It is not part of the record. Quote the transcript or the video, not the summary. The committee held a follow-up hearing on [HB 1342](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb1342), focusing on utility relocation delays in road construction. Georgia Department of Transportation (GDOT) engineers explained the current scheduling process and said some utilities submit timelines so long that existing remedies for delays become ineffective. Members discussed earlier schedule submissions, replacement contractors, incentives, penalties and better alignment between utility and road construction deadlines. Members also requested information about utilities responsible for delays on specific projects. The bill's sponsor cited upcoming transportation investment as a reason to act now. The chair encouraged further discussions with the sponsor and committee members. No amendment or vote was recorded. ## Bills discussed (1) Each account was written by gpt-6.1-sol from the stretch of the transcript it names. The bill's number is said in that stretch, unless it was the only bill on a committee's agenda. ### HB 1342. Highways; procedures and remedies when a highway improvement project is delayed due to removal, relocation, or adjustment of utility facilities; provide [HB 1342](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb1342) (2025-2026 Regular Session). From [0:23:51](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1431s), turns 8 to 385. The sponsor said [HB 1342](https://georgiacommons.org/bills/2025-2026/hb1342) seeks to address utility delays and shifting deadlines, citing upcoming transportation investment as the reason for urgency. GDOT's chief engineer discussed scheduling problems rather than reviewing the bill's language. The chief engineer said about 10% of roughly 600 active construction projects face utility delays, concentrated on larger projects. The chief engineer said current law lets contractors seek damages when utilities fall more than 20% behind their submitted schedules, but some utilities submit inflated timelines that undermine that remedy. As an example, the chief engineer described a 4.5-year road project with eight years of aerial utility work scheduled. The chief engineer said lengthy mediation can jeopardize federal funding deadlines and requested authority to require realistic schedules. One member proposed using preapproved replacement contractors. The deputy chief engineer cited availability and contract-control challenges. A second member proposed earlier schedule submissions, which the engineers said could help despite preliminary design uncertainty. Other members discussed aligned deadlines, incentives and penalties. The engineers said utilities generally pay relocation costs in state rights of way, while GDOT can extend road contracts for utility delays without covering added costs. Members requested project-specific delay data, which the engineers said could be gathered. One member questioned the urgency; the chief engineer said problems had persisted for about a decade. No amendment or vote was recorded. > The transcript runs 74,796 characters. A reader that cannot take it at once can read it in 2 parts: part 1 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-transportation.md?start=0; part 2 https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-02-25/house-transportation.md?start=59934. ## Transcript (386 turns) [0:21:47](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1307s) Okay, committee. As the the audience will know, we just adjourned just a few minutes ago, and so there's at least seven different meetings going on right now, people in desperation to pass their bills out of committee. And, you know, some of our members have been coming in and out. And, um, so this is a follow-up, you know, to Vice Chairman McDonald's bill the other day, which has gathered lots of attention, to tell you the truth. [0:22:18](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1338s) And, uh, and it's, it's just as it should. I know the, um... all parties are letting us know their issues and what they think and ideas, and I sure appreciate it. But what I thought would be important today is, um, have Meg Pirkle, who will come up in a minute, or right... Go ahead. Come on. Bring your sidekick with you. And, um- [0:22:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1365s) Well, you're the assistant chief engineer. Is that the right tit- name? Is, is that his title? [0:22:51](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1371s) Deputy. [0:22:51](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1371s) Deputy. Okay. And, uh, we'll let you introduce yourself. But I thought it'd be good for the members, and those who are not here, I told them, "Hey, we'll go ahead and have you." You know, this is always videotaped, so that you can learn about it, 'cause I think it... we need to know from Meg, you know, how this process works, and, uh, if she has any insight into ideas that we can do to, um, correct it. If you have any questions on the bill that's, that's on the table, you'll need to direct them to vice chairman, 'cause that's not Meg's job here today to do that part. [0:23:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1406s) So Madam Chief Engineer. [0:23:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1410s) All right. [0:23:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1410s) The floor is yours. [0:23:32](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1412s) Thank you so much, Chairman Jaspers and members of the committee. Thanks for invi- inviting me to share the, my perspective. I do think, um, there was a lot of debate last week on this bill, and there might be some misconceptions about what the real problem is as I see it. So the committee heard testimony last week regarding House Bill 1342. [0:23:53](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1433s) Maybe you pull it, Mark. [0:23:54](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1434s) Yes. Uh-huh. Is that better? [0:23:57](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1437s) Yes, ma'am. [0:23:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1438s) Okay. [0:23:59](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1439s) Yeah. [0:23:59](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1439s) We believe that Chairman McDonald is seeking to solve a very real challenge of project delays. I know he and many of you and your constituents, um, complain to us about how long projects take, especially when they see no activity on a job site. For reference, we have about 600 active construction projects, and about 10% are experiencing delays due to utilities. But keep in mind that the delays are not on the resurfacing projects. They're on the big projects. [0:24:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1469s) My goal today isn't to critique or opine on the specific language in the bill, but to help the committee understand the technical bottleneck we are seeing with utility adjustment schedules. I'd like to build a shared understanding of what Chair McDonald has experienced and is trying to address. To understand where we are, we should look at where we started. In 2008, Georgia changed the law to create a utility coordination process that became a national model. It was developed with buy-in from the contracting industry, the utilities, and GDOT to address delays in project delivery. [0:25:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1506s) GDOT updated our utility accommodations manual, that we call the UAM, to reflect these changes in the law and set forth a process for utility coordination throughout the project development. [0:25:25](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1525s) Maybe I have to point it that way. I'm not sure. [0:25:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1529s) Like that, maybe. [0:25:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1530s) Okay. Thanks. The logic was sound. Utilities provide their best estimate for relocation, the utility adjustment schedule. GDOT includes the utility adjustment schedule in our permit with the utility to perform the relocation work on the project. It's worth noting that GDOT does not have contracts with utilities, but we have permits with them to perform the work in the right of way. GDOT provides these utility adjustment schedules to the highway contractors for information when we advertise our projects for bids. [0:26:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1562s) Highway contractors develop their low estimate for the projects and coordinate their work around these schedules. A buffer was built into the law. If a utility falls more than 20% behind on their own utility adjustment schedule, there is a mechanism for the contractor to recover damages. Foundationally, this is built on a basis of realistic, predictable schedules. So you can see on this slide, and you do have printouts 'cause I know the text is pretty small, it shows the entire process during pre-construction that we go through to have utility coordination. [0:26:38](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1598s) It starts at... We start with quarterly meetings that we have with utilities to talk about upcoming projects. Then, as we're developing a project concept, we are working with the utilities to have, um, an in- a survey of everything that's out on the job and, um, develop an... what could be impacted, and utilities are invited to the meetings as well. As we go through plan development, we work with the utilities. We get the locations of their existing utilities, and th- that information is exchanged all throughout preliminary plans, and then they're invited to our preliminary field plan review that we call the PFPR. [0:27:19](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1639s) And, um, at that point, everyone involved looks at the project and makes comments on the preliminary plans. From there, we go into right- [0:27:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1647s) Hey. [0:27:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1647s) Yeah? [0:27:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1647s) Okay. I'm gonna kind of... we're gonna kind of go and stop. [0:27:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1649s) Okay. [0:27:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1650s) If it's all right with you. [0:27:31](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1651s) Sure. [0:27:31](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1651s) Because I wanna... If y'all have any questions, go ahead. Is, w- I want you to kind of... If you have a question- [0:27:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1657s) Uh-huh [0:27:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1657s) ... go ahead and light it up for me so I'll know But we'll just kind of go in stop. [0:27:41](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1661s) Okay. Sure. Mm-hmm. [0:27:42](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1662s) Could you just step one back- [0:27:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1664s) Yeah [0:27:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1664s) ... for me? [0:27:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1665s) Mm-hmm. [0:27:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1665s) When you tell about the utility schedules given to the contract, to the- [0:27:50](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1670s) Mm-hmm [0:27:50](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1670s) ... utilities by GDOT, and they fall 20% behind- [0:27:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1676s) Mm-hmm [0:27:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1676s) ... then you said there was opportunity for ... [0:28:00](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1680s) Yes. The current law states that if they fall more than 20% behind in progressing their schedule, the utilities- [0:28:08](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1688s) Yeah [0:28:09](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1689s) ... then the contractor has an opportunity in the current law to seek damages, and there's a process they have to go through. [0:28:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1696s) Okay. [0:28:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1696s) Okay? [0:28:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1696s) And d- to have ... Like, in the 600 projects, Meg, that you've got going on, 10%, like, say, are broke down or in conflict, so that's- [0:28:24](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1704s) Mm [0:28:24](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1704s) ... 60 of them. Are, are any of those, um, being a dr- I mean, they're 20% or more behind. Does that, is that- [0:28:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1714s) They're experiencing utility delays to various degrees. [0:28:38](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1718s) Yeah. [0:28:38](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1718s) Yes. [0:28:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1719s) So of that 60, or how many of those are, are the contractors going back on the utilities on? I'm just curious. [0:28:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1725s) I, I don't have that- [0:28:46](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1726s) If you know it, I mean- [0:28:47](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1727s) ... off the top of my head. Do you, Alan? [0:28:48](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1728s) Yeah. It, it, it's a much smaller percentage of that. I think a n- a note to make here is at 20%, the intent is not to collect damages. [0:28:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1736s) Yeah. [0:28:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1736s) It's to recover their schedule. [0:28:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1738s) Yes. [0:28:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1738s) So where it's tripped that, where it's tripped that metric, the reality of us taking note of that is the industry saying, "We're all falling behind." [0:29:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1746s) Yeah. [0:29:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1746s) "We need to get caught up." [0:29:07](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1747s) Gotcha. [0:29:08](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1748s) Uh, to your question, the, the, Mr. Chairman, the, the smaller portion that actually rises to an effort to try to recover, I think, I think of that, if we say that's 10%, that's probably a, a, a fraction. 3 to 5%, maybe in that ballpark. [0:29:23](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1763s) Okay. [0:29:23](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1763s) Mm-hmm. [0:29:24](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1764s) But I, I'll say this. What's notable about that is those will be your larger projects, and those will be your larger delays. [0:29:31](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1771s) Sure. Okay. Thank you. Chairman McDonald? [0:29:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1774s) Thank you. Um, thank you for being here, Meg. Um, appreciate it. And, and of course, i- the intent of, of the legislation that, that was before us a few days ago, and I, I get the, the 20% UAS that we're dealing with. Um, but when the goalpost keeps moving is where I don't understand, is, is when a contract says one year, two years, three years, and then we go and do a UAS that extends it four years, five years, six years, I mean, that's a goalpost that's continuing to move down the road. [0:30:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1806s) And long as that goalpost is moving, you know, you're gonna stay within your 20%. And I'm looking for something and some advice from y'all as DOT, as a person that manages these projects, that lets these contracts, is I want the goalpost to stay at the end zone. I don't want it behind the stadium. And so that's, that's where I'm trying to understand is why, when we develop these contracts and let these contracts, why aren't we, uh, if, if there are UASs in it, put those in the contract and say, "If it's a, if it needs to be a four-year contract, let's make it a four-year contract." Look, I mean, we got some smart people in DOT. [0:30:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1844s) We build bridges and big roads. And, and, and I just, I wanna see how we move proj- with all this money, this four-plus billion dollars that we're gonna be infusing in the State of Georgia over the next few years, this is important. I mean, this is important to the taxpayers that, you know, they're getting the, the return on their investment in, in these road projects and not these drawn-out goalpost movements that I think we're dealing with right now. And I, you know, I look at DOT as, as, as the coach here or the team owner. [0:31:19](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1879s) I hope you wanna look at it as y'all, y'all as DOT have gotta look at these contracts when you design them is, "Hey, let's figure out-" [0:31:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1887s) Okay. [0:31:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1887s) Yeah. [0:31:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1887s) Let's, let's pause. [0:31:28](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1888s) All right. [0:31:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1889s) Okay. So, you know, thank you. I'm sorry, but- [0:31:32](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1892s) No worries. [0:31:32](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1892s) Yeah. It, it- [0:31:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1894s) Appreciate it. [0:31:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1894s) Yeah. Thank you. So go ahead from- [0:31:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1897s) Sure [0:31:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1897s) ... where we're at. Let's ... I think she might answer some of your questions. Yeah. [0:31:41](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1901s) I will definitely try. So anyway, this slide just shows the whole schedule utility coordination before we get to construction. There's a lot of touchpoints. And, um, thank you. The red box there is the circle around the time period we have to negotiate the utility adjustment schedules. Utilities give us their schedules. We've gotta give them final plans so that they can, you know, work around what our final schedules are gonna be. [0:32:12](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1932s) And, um, and from that point, we have an, uh, an opportunity to negotiate with them and escalate the process if we disagree with their schedules. But you can see there, it's a very brief window. We have a project we're trying to get to advertise for bid, and we've received this information from the utility, and then we have a very short window before we need to certify the project to the Federal Highway Administration to obligate federal funds to advertise the project for construction. [0:32:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1965s) And you can see here, these are the steps that are built into the current law for escalating, um, the current, uh, uh, utility schedule that we disagree with. You know, there's a step one where we talk at the district, and then we bring in subject matter experts in step two. And there are timelines in the law associated with, with each of these steps, all the way up through full mediation. And it's, it's a pretty lengthy and time-consuming, arduous process. [0:33:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1996s) Next slide. [0:33:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=1997s) And this is not, if I, if I may, true for every project, just to be- [0:33:22](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2002s) No [0:33:22](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2002s) ... not the, not the- [0:33:23](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2003s) Right [0:33:23](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2003s) ... paving, but- [0:33:24](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2004s) And I, and I'll get on that as well. [0:33:25](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2005s) Okay. [0:33:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2006s) Mm-hmm. [0:33:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2006s) Thank you. [0:33:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2007s) And then the last slide just compares our utility accommodations manual to state law. And, um, basically, for the topic at hand, it shows that the law s- uh, you know, what the law says and how we clarify it in our manual and in our process. But the law does not give GDOT the ability to require realistic schedules that align with the roadway contract time without compromising that let schedule due to an arduous mediation process. [0:34:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2041s) Um, and you can go ahead and click to the next one. What started out as a working process now has become a real challenge, and we've noticed a shift. Because there is a potential financial risk to the utility if they fall behind, it appears that the natural response has been to submit increasingly conservative long duration schedules. So to avoid the risk of damages, some utilities are submitting heavily couched schedules and padding their timelines so significantly that it is nearly impossible for them to ever be 20% behind. [0:34:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2077s) So I want to be clear, I'm not questioning the expertise- [0:34:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2079s) The repeat that. I think it's, this is a real- [0:34:42](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2082s) Okay [0:34:43](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2083s) ... key idea for this [0:34:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2084s) So to avoid the risk of damages, some utilities are submitting heavily couched schedules and padding the timeline so significantly that it's nearly impossible for them to get 20% behind. That's the problem. So I'm not questioning the expertise of our utility partners. They know their infrastructure better than anyone. However, we're seeing a credibility gap here. And how do I know there's a credibility gap? Because we see it in the field. Because most of the time, the utilities are beating these long schedules by a long shot, by very significant margins. [0:35:21](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2121s) Most of the time, they're doing really great work, but the paperwork doesn't reflect their actual capability because they've given us these really long schedules. So we've all grown to assume that these schedules don't mean much. Because these submitted schedules are so long, they often exceed the entire duration of the highway construction contract. So consider this very real scenario. We have a project to widen three and a half miles of rural highway. GDOT's schedule for the project is for four and a half years. [0:35:54](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2154s) That's a pretty long time, don't you think? [0:35:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2156s) Mm-hmm. [0:35:57](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2157s) The total for aerial utility adjustment schedules that we receive from the utilities requires eight years to relocate utilities. Without getting into specifics, I can assure you there's nothing extraordinary about this project or this utility work. It's a typical utility corridor adjustment work. So GDOT's dilemma, there is a much needed and an anticipated project that has already taken years to design and by right of way, and everyone's waiting on it, and yes, we've coordinated a lot with utilities. [0:36:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2190s) And GDOT's federal funds are use it or lose it, so we have a fiscal year we need to advertise this project and award the contract. We've escalated to negotiate to the, to the utilities that, hey, these don't look realistic, but they're, they don't budge. And so we can't risk losing the funding for this project, and we can't delay advertising the project any longer, so we proceed with advertising for construction bids, and we provide those long utility schedules to the contractors. [0:37:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2221s) But we don't have time for a lengthy mediation in, in this process. The contractor's dilemma is that when a contractor bids on a project, they are bidding to work for GDOT as the owner, as the project owner, and they see the utility adjustment schedules included in the bid documents that are there for their information, and they are longer than the construction schedule that we've put in the contract. But they move forward anyway because they've seen what usually happens in the field. They know the utilities aren't gonna t- can beat those schedules, and they have to trust that through good coordination, the utility will finish the work earlier than the utility adjustment schedule, because they usually do. [0:37:46](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2266s) And so they have to, they have to regard our schedule as realistic. They're bidding on work, and our sched- schedule is what we're gonna hold them to. But due to the complexity of our projects and schedules, GDOT requires the contractor to identify a person on every job that serves as the work site utility coordinator. They meet at least weekly with all the utility contractors to discuss what the contractor intends to do per their schedule and what the utility contractors are gonna do. So it's constant coordination out there on the job site, every stage of the project. [0:38:20](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2300s) But this whole process can break down because on the occasions when a relocation does not go well or the utility does not progress the work, the contractor has no recourse. So even if no progress is made for months or years, the utility is still on schedule relative to that highly conservative estimate that they extended well beyond the four and a half year contract. So in these cases, the 2008 law designed to protect the project timeline effectively loses its ability to hold the process together. [0:38:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2336s) As noted in testimony last week by a utility, what looks like a simple road project can be a very complex utility relocation project. Totally right, I acknowledge that, and we know this. We have the utility relocation plans that they provided. We know exactly what they've got to do. GDOT has expertise in scheduling too. So our construction engineers develop schedules using a production-based bottom-up methodology. It's based on what we've experienced in the field, and they look at every plan, every environmental constraint, every stage, every alignment, and at the utility plans provided by the utilities. [0:39:36](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2376s) We know what actually happens in the field. We know what must be done and what it takes to get there, and we look for every opportunity for concurrency, meaning that the contractor and the utility have to work side by side at some point in this project. So I understand that in a perfect world, each utility and our contractors would much prefer to work in a sequential fashion all by themselves out there and not have to coordinate with others, but we owe it to the citizens of Georgia g- Georgia to be as efficient as possible. [0:40:07](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2407s) We've got to get this job done in four and a half years, right? Um, we cannot reasonably ask a community to endure a three-mile widening for eight years or longer if it can be done in four and a half. And these delays impact daily commutes, community aesthetics, and access to local businesses. We also can't expect a contractor to provide a fair, competitive bid on work they won't be able to touch for half a decade or more. [0:40:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2437s) I mean, time is money, and just carrying that project is, is costing money, even if they're not out there working. It's worth mentioning that utilities can opt in to include their work in our highway contracts and reimburse us for the cost. In this case, they bear none of the schedule risk, and I believe that remains the case in proposed H Bill 1342. So GDOT often finds itself in the middle in these situations. We are also out on the front line of fielding the concerns from the public, from y'all, and from other elected officials about stalled projects where it looks like no one's working. [0:41:15](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2475s) And, and rightly so. That is our role. We try to negotiate these utility schedule durations, but we do not have the authority to dictate them. We don't have time for a lengthy schedule mediation process when we must obligate funds to deliver a project within a fiscal year. If we were to match our construction contracts to these inflated utility schedules, project costs would skyrocket, and the public would be left driving through orange cones longer than they could stand. [0:41:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2505s) The 2008 law was designed to recover time and cost. It holds the contractor accountable for coordination and the utility accountable for duration. The current structure of the law is failing because the 20% threshold is based on schedules that are no longer realistic. Not every project, not every utility schedule, but many of them. And when the schedule is intentionally padded to avoid risk, the accountability mechanism that's in the current law becomes a mathematical impossibility. [0:42:21](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2541s) So we value our utility partners immensely. They provide the essential services- [0:42:25](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2545s) Madam Engineer. [0:42:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2547s) Yeah. [0:42:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2547s) Let's just pause. [0:42:28](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2548s) Okay. [0:42:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2549s) Take a breath. [0:42:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2549s) Okay. [0:42:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2550s) You're doing a great job. Okay, let's start. Representative McCollum had a question. [0:42:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2557s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:42:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2559s) You're on. [0:42:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2559s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um- [0:42:42](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2562s) Oh. [0:42:42](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2562s) So, there we go. So, um, walk me through... I just have a question about-- I have several, but just, I'm just gonna ask this one. So when you bid a project, does GDOT pay the utility companies? Do they have to pay them to move the utilities? Is that the way it works? [0:43:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2582s) It depends. If, if, if they were there first, and we're encroaching on their right of way, then yes, we have to pay to move those utilities. But if they are in our right of way by permit, they have to pay to move their own utilities. [0:43:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2597s) Okay. So follow up, Mr. Chairman? [0:43:19](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2599s) Yes, sir. Please. [0:43:20](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2600s) So, um, say for instance, we pay, we pay them, um, do, do they submit a, a, a cost of how much it's gonna cost to, to do that in the, in the whole plans? Is that correct? [0:43:35](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2615s) Yes. If we have to pay them- [0:43:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2617s) Right [0:43:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2617s) ... then yes, they submit a cost, and we pay them before the project starts. [0:43:40](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2620s) Okay. What-- I guess where I'm going with this is, uh, I'm just curious, and I've asked other, um, uh, utilities. So would you say that, that all utilities use a subcontractor, do you think? I mean, instead of their companies? [0:43:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2638s) I would say many do. I don't know if I could say all do. [0:44:00](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2640s) Right. [0:44:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2641s) Mm-hmm. [0:44:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2641s) So i- in my suggestion, obviously we're trying to figure out a, a solution to the problem. Um, if you have a 36-month contract, um, just say, or 48 months, whatever you wanna call, and you, when you do the project, you g- the, the contractor or the company, um, submits five subcontractors that they utilize. [0:44:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2666s) Mm-hmm. [0:44:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2666s) And you have-- and, and this, you might do this already, I'm just curious. And you say, "Okay, you, we have 36 months to, to do this." Uh, you, and they submit their plan. "If you can't do it in that time," um, and, and I guess it would matter if we're paying them or, or they're, you know, vice versa- [0:44:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2685s) Right [0:44:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2685s) ... um, "we will hire one of the contractors you submit at the beginning of the pro- project to move those utilities." Ha- has that ever been floated? I'm just curious. Or is that even a viable, uh, the contractor would handle having one of those utilities pick off that list and, and have them moved? [0:45:05](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2705s) I mean, they can put their utilities in our contract. That is an option. I don't know if it's ever happened kinda at the spur of the moment like you're suggesting. [0:45:13](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2713s) Well, I'm not saying it's the spur mo- spur of the moment. I'm, I'm saying you have a drop dead date- [0:45:18](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2718s) Mm-hmm [0:45:19](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2719s) ... and if you don't fulfill it within that timeframe, we're gonna essentially pick one of these contractors that you're comfortable with and move those utilities. W- if you don't move them, I'm just asking. [0:45:32](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2732s) We have not unilaterally said to a utility- [0:45:35](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2735s) No, I know. We're gonna have to change it. But I'm asking you, do you think that's a viable option? [0:45:41](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2741s) Uh, in some way it could be. I mean, it would be good to know in an earlier stage in the schedule so that we could incorporate those plans into our plans easily and, um, and plan for that in our work as well. But I, I do think that there is definite benefit to having the utilities put in our project. [0:46:00](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2760s) Well, so, uh, I guess what I'm asking is- [0:46:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2764s) That's a good question [0:46:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2764s) ... is we're at, at trying to come up with a solution. [0:46:07](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2767s) Mm-hmm. [0:46:07](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2767s) And if we have this in place, that if we've got this project, obviously you do it in the beginning, this is the time we need the utilities moved. By this time, and if you can't move them, we will have them moved by one of your contractors. This isn't something that y'all do now, I know- [0:46:22](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2782s) Right [0:46:22](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2782s) ... because you don't have that. [0:46:23](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2783s) Right. [0:46:23](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2783s) I'm saying if that's something, uh, obviously, um- [0:46:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2787s) You know, would be like if you're a contractor building a house and you can't get something moved, you call another contractor and, and they get it done. I'm asking you, do you think that that would be helpful? It would. It would have some viability. It'd have some challenges. One of the things that occurs when you, when you get those quotes from, from any contractor or any subcontractor, that's their availability that day. So if we're talking about something that's a year into the future before it bubbles over to being a problem, their availability might not be there. That's, that's a risk I see off the top. [0:46:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2818s) But I think as, in terms of having a pre-approved list to go to, to say- Mm-hmm ... subcontractor, contractor A is not performing, it would. The challenge for us is we don't hold that contract with that utility subcontractor. Mm-hmm. That utility owner does. So it would really be quite a change for it to put us in a position to take that away and select who's gonna perform their work. Well, they would give you a list, and like I said, this is all conjecture 'cause I'm just trying to come up with a solution. They would give you a list and say, "Hey, in the beginning of the contract, this is the ones we have." And, uh, and they would have to know ahead of time that if they don't fulfill their ob- you know, obligation to get it moved, this is who we're gonna use. [0:47:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2859s) Um, that way they're not, you know, utilizing somebody they're not comfortable with, but they have to know that, that it's gonna be moved by somebody. I think we could definitely explore. Thank you. I think, I think, yeah, that is one thing we can explore. Thank you. Who's next? Do we have here? Representative Clifton. Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Um, Mr. Chairman, I have a couple different questions if that's okay. Oh, absolutely. Please. So you m- uh, you actually just answered this, but I wanna clarify. So the utilities do not answer to GDOT. They answer to the utility provider. [0:48:10](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2890s) So the pole answers to Georgia Power, to the EMCs. Is that consistent? Their contractors do, yes. Mm-hmm. For us, the, the idea of being under our permit, so they're in there right away by permission. That saves the taxpayers the money of, of not being on private property. Mm-hmm. That agreement is if you, if we ever make you move, it's at your expense, but it is their contractor to them only. Mm-hmm. Okay. Another piece that you added was that we don't have time to, you know, mediate kind of these schedules and stuff. [0:48:40](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2920s) But based on this pre-construction utility schedule that I see, my rough math is almost a year between the first utility submission. You have 17 weeks till you get to the milestone, then another 24 weeks till you get to the next milestone, then another 22 weeks, uh, yeah, another, we'll call it 11 weeks- Right ... till you get to the GDOT utility cert, uh, certification doing federal funding. To me, under this first utility submission plan, we ask for a duration. If that duration is unacceptable to the project, we tell them that. [0:49:11](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2951s) "This is unacceptable. This doesn't work. Here's your duration that you're gonna need to fall within. If you can't fall within that schedule, we will go out to market and we will find the contractors that can fall within that schedule." So we receive their schedules down at the bottom in the red box. That's where we receive their utility adjustment schedules, right, right above that. And then the process that's in law and in the utility accommodations manual and has timelines for escalations has to happen between then and when we certify the project for funding to the federal government. [0:49:46](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=2986s) So if you go back up to the top, um, 17 weeks prior to preliminary field plan review. Mm-hmm. First utility submission plan due. That's a plan. That's where- Can we not get a schedule with the plan? It doesn't come with a schedule at that point. It doesn't. It, so at that point- Is there an issue with that, getting a schedule at that point? We know enough about it. It doesn't have to be... It's not a contract schedule. This is a schedule that we're gonna start with to determine if how y'all feel you wanna handle this, uh, moving of utilities is gonna work with our project or not. That, that's another, that's another spot to enter schedules. [0:50:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3017s) 'Cause I see you got one there. You got a second utility submission plan due. There's the next schedule. We're firming that up a little bit more. We can add it to where if you're so many percent off of your original schedule, like if you gave a BS schedule just to keep it moving, and then you blow it out 100% on your next schedule- Yeah. Mm-hmm ... well, that doesn't work. We're not gonna allow that. And, and I think you can put some penalties in place, too. You know, contractors have liquidated damages when they're late. We hold a schedule. We set the schedule. It's their responsibility to p- to provide, to, uh, respond to that schedule. Yeah. And I think it needs to be fair. We're not saying y'all got a week to get this done, but the contractor can tear road out, scrape the road, bring in or grade it, bring new rock in, all with rain as everything's happening, in a shorter timeframe than people can put in a new pole and then move across and then put back on the o- I, I understand it's different. [0:51:05](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3065s) There's a lot more things, a lot of unforeseens, but those same unforeseens are also being held to the contract at the same point. He doesn't get any ability when he's long or late. And so, um, I, I, I think putting, maybe putting more underneath y'all and GDOT is the answer. Maybe we put these utility durations in, under y'all to hold, um, hold them accountable. I- I, I would say if, if we were to get them earlier, that would facilitate a lot of resolution. I think that is, that is true. The only thing, and I don't wanna speak on their behalf, but I would imagine that a, a, that a point they would make, the utilities would make is some of that engineering at that first phase is preliminary, and it may not be out to a, may not be designed out to a level to give you a hard number. [0:51:51](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3111s) "I'll give you a number, but it's only as good as my preliminary engineering." I still think it's a valid area to explore. Mm-hmm. But I think just to give that color, I share that with you. And you could do the first ones plus or minus 30%. You know, you got a 60% swing either way of which you do it. You know, it still needs to be some realm. Budget can't just be pie in the sky. Yeah. But you give some sort of large, and then again, that second one, we tighten that up a little, and we tighten it up a little, and then we get to what we can actually do, so. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:52:21](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3141s) Thank you. Representative Cox. Thank you. Thank you, Madam Engineer, for being here. Um, so hearing- [0:52:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3154s) What Representative Clifton said and what we've heard thus far, and then what you've also mentioned, give me the solution. If you were writing the solution, what is it? I'll have to interrupt there. That is our job. I under- I wanted- Yeah. I mean, I think we can get their, uh, as we go through this, get their opinions on things that they can do, but I think asking them for a solution, that's our job. I, I understand that, but I wanna hear what they're thinking so that it will help us in doing our job in what she views as her engineering perspective. [0:53:09](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3189s) Sure. If they have ... I mean, the- If you don't, that's fine, but recommendations, I think. And I think, I think too, Representative, we're in the very beginning stages of trying to figure this out. I think we got the bill a week ago. I know they, they talk about it a lot, but I think I'm, we're gonna give them a little bit of grace in figuring this out, of helping us figure it out. I, I mean- Go ahead ... we need the legal ability to limit excessive schedules. I'll just say that. Yeah. That would, that would be a solution. Okay. Follow-up? Sure, please. [0:53:40](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3220s) Can, can we create schedules where the highway contractor and utilities have to be on the same date, finish date? [0:53:54](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3234s) So that those two align and it's not two different things going down two different roads. I, I think that's where we're all trying to get to, and, and that's to that point of if, if ... Again, we haven't really spoke to this, but the idea of if that UAS is so disproportionate to reality, and when we've looked at w- all the history shows it takes to do the work, what's been performed in the past of that project, we're still gonna set an aggressive date to get out of the public's way. We need, to this, to the point of this legislation is, is to find a mechanism that does exactly what you're asking. [0:54:28](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3268s) We ... That is what we all would want. Mm-hmm. But what ... In its current form, and, and you heard it in testimony last week, there are projects where those utility adjustment schedules, they, they long outlast our contract. Mm-hmm. And simply because we can't include them as written, it would, it would push a job, some of these jobs would double in time. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. [0:54:52](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3292s) Representative Preisinger. [0:54:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3296s) Thank you, Chairman. Uh, so a lot of what we're talking about here- Persinger. I'm sorry ... is missing schedules. Like, are, are we or do we have data right now of who are the bad actors or the ones missing their sche- or padding their schedules by the most, getting either done twice as fast as their schedule or blowing their schedule? Do we have that data so we can make realistic decisions on how to fix this? I'm just gonna say generally, it's, it's a problem across the board. [0:55:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3329s) I don't ... You know? [0:55:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3334s) I guess there- I'd, I'd rather not. Okay. Sure. Number 23. Mr. McCollum? Yes. There you go. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I'm gonna follow up on, um, Representative Preisinger's comment and say, um- I have to apologize. It's not Preisinger. I have a friend named Preisinger, and he's, you two are my friends. It's Persinger. [0:56:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3364s) Sorry. So I know- [0:56:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3366s) ... word. So I know DOT's big on data. I mean, I know y'all keep everything, every- everything. And, um, so are there a report that you could give this body that would track, uh, you know, on projects in the past that, you know, what utilities held up a project? I know y'all don't say it out in public, that's fine, but I know y'all keep the data. [0:56:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3399s) So if you have XYZ project, uh, and it, it was thir- 36-month project and it took eight years, what utility held that up, uh, throughout the state? Is that something you can provide us? We do have that information. Okay. Is that something, okay, Mr. Chairman, we could, they could provide us? [0:57:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3422s) I'm sorry. You do have that of it? I mean, uh, for a specific project, we could gather that information. Oh, yeah. I don't know that we readily have a query that we could run and pull that data. That's right. It's, 'cause it's with each project contract. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Follow-up, Mr. Chairman? Sure, please. So I had talked to a, a, a company that provides power, I'll leave it at that, and, and I, I, I'd spoke with them, and they have tickets. I don't know if y'all have tickets out. They had said they had 3,500 tickets out that, that some utility needed to be moved off their pole. [0:57:36](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3456s) Is that something that y'all have as well? Uh, uh, I don't know if you call it a ticket, but, um, you know, I know the power companies get a bad rap, uh, because you go through there and their power, power's up, even though they have their lines already moved, the high, high voltage line, and there's one little old tiny line on there, uh, and they can't move it. They can't cut it down, just leave that line hanging. So, uh, and they had told me that, that there was, they had 3,500 tickets out. [0:58:08](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3488s) Is that seen to be the case a lot of times on projects, that the poles are just up because they're holding a small line? I mean, the work on aerial utilities is sequential. You know, just like it was described in last week's meeting. You know, you move the pole, then each of the utilities down the pole moves. And so it is very possible that they are waiting on one or two of those utilities to move off that pole line. Okay. I don't have a number- Thank you ... to say if that's accurate or not. But you can get us some data on pro- past projects of, of what utility strung it along throughout the project? [0:58:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3524s) Yes. [0:58:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3524s) Okay. [0:58:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3524s) For specific projects. [0:58:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3525s) I think it'd also- [0:58:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3525s) Thank you [0:58:46](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3526s) ... be interesting to get data from- [0:58:48](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3528s) Yeah [0:58:48](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3528s) ... you're talking to. [0:58:49](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3529s) Yeah. [0:58:49](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3529s) Who they are, what they've seen as you come up with a whole- [0:58:53](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3533s) Yeah [0:58:53](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3533s) ... better picture. [0:58:54](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3534s) Okay. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:58:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3536s) Yes, sir. [0:58:59](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3539s) Representative Persinger. [0:59:03](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3543s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So sounds like we need to find a way to do similar to what happened on the 85 bridge when it collapsed from the fire, and to have an incentive to get it done quicker. So we need to find a way to set goals for the utilities to move. I mean, if we've gotta incentivize them with extra pay, if, if we're paying, if DOT's paying Move anyway- [0:59:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3566s) Usually they're paying. If they're in our right of way- [0:59:28](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3568s) Right [0:59:28](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3568s) ... they are paying to move on or move out. [0:59:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3570s) Or we've gotta start billing them for time, 'cause that's what we're talking about. Time is money, and they're, and they're blowing everybody's budgets. Interest carry, project costs are extended because we're going longer, and prices are increasing. So one way or the other, we've gotta either reward it or bill it for lost time. [0:59:49](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3589s) Hear, hear. Thank you. Vice Chairman. [0:59:56](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3596s) I got a laundry list here. I, I brought you dinner. Um, I wanna start, one, uh, I'm representing one I wanna say hello to. We've got our school board chair, our superintendent, our chair of our commission, another commissioner. I appreciate y'all being here today, and our county manager, so I do wanna say hello to y'all. So I'm gonna use us as an example of a growing area. Um, relationships with counties, when you're dealing with county projects, deal- you know, working with them and, and do you see issues that come up that are different than when you might be dealing with, you know, state highway, interstate, uh, movement as far as, uh, working with our counties? [1:00:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3634s) That's a vague question, but, uh, is it, do things get drawn out even more when you're dealing with county to DOT projects? [1:00:43](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3643s) So are you asking if we have issues with county-owned utilities, or are you asking if the counties have the same challenges and- [1:00:50](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3650s) Same challenges or worse than when, when you're- [1:00:53](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3653s) I would say the challenges are probably similar. [1:00:55](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3655s) They're similar. Mm-hmm. We, we've heard they're similar. [1:00:57](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3657s) Yeah. [1:00:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3658s) Um, something that was brought up, and this is from my, my EMC friends. [1:01:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3662s) Oh, hang on just one second. I'm, I can't... Lauren, just for one second. So on a in-town project, they follow, if it's a county project- [1:01:12](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3672s) Mm-hmm. [1:01:12](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3672s) Well, that's on a county road. I take that back. You know, this, if it's on our right of way, if it's a state route, it's ours. [1:01:18](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3678s) Mm-hmm. [1:01:19](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3679s) Yeah, okay, got it. Sorry. I didn't mean to interrupt you. [1:01:21](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3681s) No worries. No worries. [1:01:22](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3682s) I was chasing a rabbit in my mind. [1:01:23](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3683s) No worries. Um, yeah, going back, this is a kind of an EMC friendly question that, you know, I'm very close to my EMCs, not only, you know, the whole state EMC relationship, but also Jackson and Sony EMC. Um, DOT requires, uh, the products that they're using now to be American-made. Uh, is it, and is that correct? [1:01:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3705s) Well, the Federal Highway does, and to get their money, we agree with them. [1:01:48](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3708s) Mm-hmm. [1:01:49](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3709s) Correct. Uh, what can we do as DOT, uh, to, to... I don't know. I- is that a problem in y'all's eyes to, to get these products at a timely manner? Uh, or is the supply chain there? [1:02:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3724s) It's really just emerging now. That, that legislation has been rather tortured to bring to bear from the, at a federal level. And so there is a concern in supply chain for various pieces and parts. That's absolutely true. [1:02:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3737s) W- the, is there, uh, I, you know, I think that's something we need to look at, too. You know, how can we fix that? I mean, what, what, what are some remedies of that? Because I think that does play into- [1:02:28](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3748s) I mean, if it's, if it's a federally funded project, we have to adhere to that. [1:02:33](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3753s) Yes, ma'am. [1:02:33](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3753s) There, there used to be waivers in the law. There aren't anymore. [1:02:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3757s) Yeah. [1:02:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3757s) So it's, it is challenging. [1:02:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3759s) Okay. Um, w- well, this is an easy question. What is the percentage of, of, uh, when you're the, I guess, um, the, uh, the s- state, when you encroach on or use, uh, when the utilities are on their, their private property or not on state-owned, what's the percentage of that? Is that a lot? I wouldn't think. [1:03:00](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3780s) No, it's rather small. [1:03:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3781s) Yeah. [1:03:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3781s) Okay. [1:03:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3781s) I think it's pretty small. [1:03:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3782s) Rather small. [1:03:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3782s) Mm-hmm. [1:03:03](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3783s) And the last thing is, uh, you know, this is for the committee and those listening too. You know, as, as we look at these contracts, if we s- do a three-year contract, then we get into the, the UAS of this. You know, I, I look at the cost of, of moving these utilities. That, that variable is very small. Of, I, I think that's kind of a, you know, that's sta- that's, that's, uh, I guess, y- you know, uh, your team members that work for the company, et cetera. That's kinda our... You kinda know those variables. [1:03:33](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3813s) But the aggregate, the, the cost of product, the materials that the construction, you know, you're dragging- [1:03:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3819s) Yeah [1:03:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3819s) ... that out three more years. That aggregate could, I mean, it could skyrocket. It could go up 50%. [1:03:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3824s) Yeah. [1:03:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3824s) And I think that's, that's an issue that we really need to look at in, in this environment that we're in. And, and so that, that was, that's just a concern getting into that. And when you're getting these UAS, who ultimately monitors? Is there an organization, a group that, that, that, that these issues go before, these u- utility adjustment schedules, or is it DOT's issue? [1:04:07](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3847s) It, it's... So we have an escalation process to, when they, when we receive the schedules, to negotiate with the utility about the schedule. Now, as far as who deals with it once it's under construction and they're not meeting the schedule, that is the contractor to negotiate with the utilities on the job. [1:04:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3866s) Yeah. So there's, there's two escalations, and I think we haven't been very articulate in explaining that. We have the ability to escalate our pre-construction schedule numbers that we receive, and the contractor has that performance piece that they can escalate in the end, still looking and regarding that same UAS schedule. Um, but to Mack's point, when you have- And to your very point, if the commodity has changed in that period of time and that schedule's pushed because of that utility, that is the ask from the industry back to those utility folks. [1:04:57](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3897s) Okay. So there's not a board or ... Y'all are the determining factor dealing with that. There's not a utility adjustment schedule board that you can appeal things to or anything like that? [1:05:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3906s) There's not. The- [1:05:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3906s) It is strictly DOT and- [1:05:08](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3908s) The legislation- [1:05:09](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3909s) Or through mediation. [1:05:10](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3910s) Yeah, okay. [1:05:11](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3911s) Yeah. Yeah. The legislation puts that process in our hands. Ultimately, that last step being mediation is, is not in our hands. But we do monitor, to your question, in terms of the efforts to recover schedule, to, to validate the claims made by either the contractor or the position of the utility, we do have an internal process for that, staff for that. It, it, it is a standing committee, um, but there's no outside entity that looks at that. [1:05:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3937s) Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:05:40](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3940s) Mr. Mathis. [1:05:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3944s) Just a quick question. This is probably just for my ... These, these other folks a lot more knowledgeable than I am, they probably already know this. But how do you handle the difference, you know, when you got a utility that runs behind schedule and that sort of thing, how do you handle that versus a contractor that's doing the actual building of the road? How, how do ... If the contractor is behind, h- how do you- [1:06:08](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3968s) Yeah [1:06:08](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3968s) ... penalize or work together with them to, to, to get it moving? [1:06:13](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3973s) Meaning it's, meaning it's not the utility's fault, it's the contractor's fault. [1:06:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3976s) Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah. [1:06:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3977s) Yeah. [1:06:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3977s) So- [1:06:18](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=3978s) There, there's ... So within the rules and, and regs that have been promulgated, the contractors have to keep their projects within 15%, not 20, but 15. If they have two or more that fall outside of that g- or greater than 15% behind, they're at risk to be able to bid another project. We can pull their pre-qualification and they will not bid anything else till they regain those schedules. [1:06:41](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4001s) Does the same apply to a u- utility or h- [1:06:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4004s) No. [1:06:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4004s) No, sir. [1:06:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4005s) Mm-mm. And of course, the contractor can also in- incur liquidated damages- [1:06:50](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4010s) At the very end [1:06:50](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4010s) ... if they are, if they are behind schedule. [1:06:52](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4012s) Yes. [1:06:52](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4012s) Mm-hmm. [1:06:53](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4013s) And you could always, you could ... Unfortunately, you ... We don't like to do this, don't want to do this, you could progress it to a default and the surety would complete the project. [1:07:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4021s) Yeah. [1:07:03](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4023s) I was just curious if you w- would hold one to one standard and one to a other standard. I, I didn't know how, how we could- [1:07:09](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4029s) We don't hold the contract- [1:07:10](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4030s) Yeah [1:07:10](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4030s) ... with the utility's contractor. [1:07:12](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4032s) Yeah, yeah, yeah. [1:07:13](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4033s) Even, even if they are, are paying for it or not paying for it, if you have to pay for it and you under- [1:07:19](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4039s) That's correct. [1:07:20](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4040s) Yeah, the only way that it would come back to our oversight is if our contr- the contractor is performing that work under, under agreement to have it included in our contract, then they would be responsible for that as well as any other pi- any other work they're doing. [1:07:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4054s) Yeah. [1:07:35](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4055s) So the contractor can be penalized if the utility's holding the whole project up. [1:07:40](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4060s) That's, that's the point that's, that's raised here is- [1:07:43](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4063s) Yeah, I mean- [1:07:44](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4064s) There, there's the opportunity for us to extend contract time- [1:07:47](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4067s) Mm-hmm [1:07:48](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4068s) ... recognizing the, that utility delay occurred. The issue of recovering monetary damages is where th- that's the contractor's piece to that. But we would, we have the ability to recognize it, it, it ... The schedule got pushed and we acknowledge that. We will grant those days for that, but we're not going to participate in the ex- additional cost that arose out of that. [1:08:09](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4089s) Okay. [1:08:09](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4089s) Right. We wanna be a fair and reasonable owner. [1:08:12](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4092s) Yeah. [1:08:12](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4092s) And more than anything, we want the schedule to be recovered and for the project to be delivered on time. [1:08:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4097s) Okay. [1:08:17](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4097s) That is our end goal. [1:08:20](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4100s) There's a lot of variables, and I know that's hard on y'all. I, I can see how this is hard to fi- figure out how we do this. Thank you so much for that. [1:08:31](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4111s) Who's, uh, who's third? [1:08:32](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4112s) Sam. [1:08:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4114s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:08:35](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4115s) Go ahead, Vance. Vance. [1:08:38](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4118s) Good to see y'all. [1:08:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4119s) Good to see you, sir. [1:08:40](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4120s) The policies that you have in place, the way that you handle this now, how long have these policies, this system ha- has it been in place? [1:08:50](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4130s) The law changed in 2008, and our utility accommodations manual, I think, was finalized, revised and finalized within a couple of years of that. [1:09:00](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4140s) And second question, Mr. Chairman. [1:09:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4142s) Oh, please. [1:09:03](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4143s) Uh, do you think, uh, since that length of time, and we're in 2026, uh, do you see needs for updating that policy? Are there some things that you would like to tweak to improve what's going on, uh, w- between the utility contractors and the utility, uh, contracting companies? Do you see a way that could tweak that that might bring it up to, to date? Is that needed? [1:09:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4170s) I, I ... Our utility accommodations manual is updated routinely just for various changes. And so I think it's up to date, and it allows us to do everything that the law allows us to do. I'll put it that way. [1:09:45](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4185s) I, I got one more, Mr. Chairman. [1:09:47](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4187s) Please. [1:09:49](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4189s) Oh. When you look at updating, is there, is there a meeting maybe with contractors or this contractors association and the utility companies or utility association? Is there input? Do y'all sit down and kind of say, "Hey, how can we improve this for the future?" [1:10:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4206s) Absolutely. There's a ... It's called the GUCC, the Georgia Utilities Coordinating Council, I believe is the last C. Um, and so that is a group where we would vet changes to our utility accommodations manual and get comments. And then, of course, we meet quarterly with utilities in every district to talk about changes to the manual, changes to process, changes to federal law, as well as all of our projects that are coming up, challenges on projects. It's a ongoing coordination because these are very complex issues. [1:10:39](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4239s) Okay. Thank y'all. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:10:43](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4243s) Yes, sir. Big, on that GUCC, are the Howard contractors the, the- [1:10:48](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4248s) Yes, sir [1:10:48](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4248s) ... are they part, who all's part of that? I mean- [1:10:50](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4250s) Um, all the utilities, 811, GDOT, I believe some local governments. I may be Missing some folks, but- [1:10:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4258s) Sure. Okay [1:10:58](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4258s) ... it's a, it's a big group. [1:10:59](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4259s) Okay. And they meet how often? [1:11:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4262s) I'm not sure- [1:11:03](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4263s) Just like quarterly? [1:11:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4264s) ... how often they are meeting, but I can find out. They used to meet very regularly. I haven't, um, I don't know where they're at. [1:11:11](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4271s) And I did see the book. The manual you were talking about is about [1:11:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4276s) two inches, two and a half inches thick, that y'all worked from. [1:11:20](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4280s) Yeah. [1:11:21](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4281s) Who else? Who's next? Representative McCollum. [1:11:25](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4285s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I'm gonna follow up on, uh, Representative Mathis' question, and I'm not advocating for this, I'm just asking the question. So if you had a contractor that does projects and they're late all the time, you know, they, they have several projects and they're late, um, uh, and, um, they're just, they don't do what they... Would you eventually suspend them? They just wouldn't get any contracts. [1:11:47](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4307s) Yeah, they, they, we would... Again, that process is, is progressive. We, we really want the recovery. We don't, we'd rather people stay in business and succeed at it, but it does ultimately have a lever that brings it over to who bonded the project to get it built, to get it completed. [1:12:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4322s) Okay. [1:12:03](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4323s) And we have suspended- [1:12:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4324s) Right [1:12:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4324s) ... contracts from bidding on new jobs. [1:12:05](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4325s) So follow up. [1:12:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4326s) Yes, sir. [1:12:07](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4327s) So, um, do, do contractors have to, utility contractors I should say, they have to come to DOT for permits, is that correct? It, I mean, all throughout the state. [1:12:18](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4338s) Our permit is to the utility. [1:12:20](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4340s) No, I'm not talking about a project. I'm talking about period. Like, if they need to put up a pole on y- on right of way. [1:12:26](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4346s) Oh, unrelated to a project. [1:12:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4347s) That's right. [1:12:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4347s) If a town may wanna get something in our right of way, they come, the utility comes to us for a permit. [1:12:32](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4352s) So if they wanna- [1:12:33](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4353s) And then they hire a contractor to do the work [1:12:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4354s) ... if they wanna dig in the right of way, put up a pole in the right of way, anything, they have to come to DOT for a pro- for a, for a- [1:12:41](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4361s) A permit, yes, sir [1:12:42](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4362s) ... permit. Correct. Okay. So I'm just thinking, like I said, I'm not advocating this, I'm just asking. So if we have a contractor that doesn't fulfill their obligation, they don't work for DOT any longer. So if we have utilities that are not fulfilling their obligation, they need permits to work in the state of Georgia. I- is that correct? [1:13:02](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4382s) They need permits to put utilities in the state right of way. [1:13:05](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4385s) That's right. [1:13:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4386s) Mm-hmm. [1:13:06](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4386s) Okay. That was my question. Thank you. [1:13:11](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4391s) Thank you. Representative Horner. [1:13:13](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4393s) Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I have a few couple questions real quick. Um, how does other states deal with this issue? Because relationships between their DOTs and utilities is nothing new, um, so how do other states deal with this kind of issue? [1:13:27](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4407s) Well, as I stated in the beginning, when the law changed in 2008, Georgia was considered a national model for utility coordination because the way it's laid out in law, it should work, but it doesn't work because we're not getting realistic schedules, and there's nothing in the law that allows us to require a realistic schedule. It, we need the ability to pull, reign in those excessive schedules. So I would say that probably every state DOT would say that utility coordination is a really big challenge. [1:13:59](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4439s) Yeah. [1:13:59](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4439s) And, um, you know, I don't, I don't think that anyone is doing it better than us. [1:14:05](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4445s) No. And I would, I'd add this. I think the, I think the, the reality of, of what we have in place, absent this and prior to this legislation, what you had was a contractor actually litigating against a utility company for whatever number of years if, if they felt that was even worth pursuing. So this w- this was an effort, as I understand it, this was, the original bill, the effort was to actually avoid that and, and r- and reach this collaborative process to recover schedules. [1:14:37](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4477s) Okay. And I guess my final question would be, I mean, we're, we're a week, week and a half away from crossover, which means we need to get a bill very quickly on an issue that's clearly pressing, and I guess at what point did it become too much to handle? At what point did this issue kind of come to us and say, what caused that point? Is what, I guess what I'm saying. 'Cause not only, yes, we have all these util- utilities coming to us at this, and, and the time schedule, but when did it start tipping over, and what really cau- I mean, we're at 10% of projects being delayed. [1:15:10](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4510s) I mean, I, I was in manufacturing and small business. I mean, that's regular for, for projects. [1:15:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4516s) Mm-hmm. [1:15:16](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4516s) What kind of percentage are y'all looking for? I mean, we want everything to be on time, but we have to be realistic in a, in a real, real world out there. And I guess what I'm trying to say is where was that tipping point? Why is it so pressing at this urgency versus, you know, a, six months ago or a year ago when we could have started this process at the beginning of last session? [1:15:36](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4536s) I, I, I'll, I'll defer to the chairman who dropped the bill as to w- what became so pressing that he decided to do that. But I can say that this has been an issue with GDOT projects for a long time. We've been struggling with it for a long time, at s- I'd say the last decade or so. [1:15:57](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4557s) Would you like to answer- [1:15:59](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4559s) The, the press- [1:16:00](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4560s) ... Representative Rice? [1:16:00](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4560s) Oh. Yes. The pressing issue is knowing what you as a legislature and our general assembly's about to put in, invest in the state of Georgia, knowing what's about to be invested up the 400 corridor, which selfishly, um, uh, there's a place in there that I, I do represent and proudly. Um, you know, that, that, with that money that's sitting in a bank right now ready to be used, you know, that, that money's not only for the 400 corridor and the toll road, it's for five miles on either way that can, can be diffused into, into the communities up that 400 corridor. [1:16:34](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4594s) And of course, that's gonna get into a lot of infrastructure being moved. And, and these delays, it's gonna, what, the, y- driving down 400 now is hell. Now add, add all that and people trying to get, get places to work, um, that's, that's why this came about. [1:16:55](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4615s) Okay. Anybody else? Do you have some more comments? I know we interrupted you, ma'am. [1:17:01](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4621s) I just have some brief closing remarks, but they- they're very- [1:17:04](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4624s) The floor, go ahead. [1:17:05](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4625s) So I was gonna reiterate that we do value our relationship with utilities immensely. Um, they provide essential services that allow the state to grow. We want the utilities and the highway contractors to be successful and to be profitable because we need a healthy construction industry. We, we need that. Um, if we wanna continue delivering world-class infrastructure, we need schedules that reflect reality and not fear of litigation. [1:17:36](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4656s) And so, um, and we, and we need projects delivered on time. So we really need utilities to prioritize work on GDOT projects and provide reasonably aggressive adjustment schedules. We need to be able to require realistic schedules when we don't receive that, that... And they need to align with the roadway contract without compromising the overall time of the project to get it out to bid when we have funds available. So, um, if we can align our timelines, we can reduce costs, shorten construction zones, and get everybody moving faster. [1:18:12](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4692s) So, um, I'm really happy to answer any additional questions you may have now or in the future, and thank you so much for this opportunity. [1:18:21](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4701s) Well, thank you, Meg. And, and I, I'm sorry, Mark, I did not introduce you or, uh, you know. Mark is Meg's- [1:18:29](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4709s) That's my bad [1:18:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4710s) ... wife [1:18:30](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4710s) Mark is the deputy chief engineer at GDOT, so. [1:18:33](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4713s) And, uh, I know- and I appreciate y'all's candor in trying to... I know it's, it's, this is a- unusual that we're in this situation, uh, with your question back and forth, and I appreciate your, um... And I think members at this moment, our goal is to, uh, not, and try not to pit one another against each other in this, 'cause these are all our friends. You know, I was thinking about it just as you were closing. You know, all the people in this room that are behind you and that we're facing are our friends and trying to work. [1:19:05](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4745s) And you said it very eloquently. Our, your goal is to get projects finished on time for the public, and there's just a breakdown. And to answer Representative Cox's question a minute ago, I believe if you listened to the gentlelady, she said they were, need the power to create realistic scheduling. And I think that you answered that question. I just wanted to come back to that. So I encourage a conversation. You know, uh, we're running out of time. I don't know if the count, the meeting after us, um, is canceled or not. [1:19:38](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4778s) But encourage a conversation with the bill sponsor, myself, any of the members, and, uh, we appreciate everybody's time. Anybody, any more questions for the committee? See none. Okay. Meg and Mark, thank you for being here- [1:19:53](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4793s) Thank you so much [1:19:54](https://vimeo.com/1168109198#t=4794s) ... during this meeting.