House Motor Vehicles Committee, March 3, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:09:03

   Oh. Good morning, Cameron. How you doing?

2. 0:09:11

   All right, 1267. Looks like everyone's talking about 1267.

3. 0:09:17

   All right, perfect.

4. 0:09:22

   What we got?

5. 0:09:24

   Doctor?

6. 0:09:25

   Yeah, he'll be here. Right next. Well, good morning. It's 8:00. I'm gonna go ahead and call this meeting to order. We have two bills on the agenda this morning, but before we start, I'm gonna ask, uh, Chairman Vance Smith if he'll open in prayer for us. Y'all bow with us.

7. 0:09:41

   Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. Thank you now. Lord, we do thank you for another gorgeous day. Every day is a good day. And we-- You know each heart in this room, whether on the committee or in the audience, and you know the needs of these, everybody. Uh, sometimes we need you as a great physician, and the people that are sick back home, we ask you to take care of them. Be with our families, and be with this meeting, that we do things that are pleasing to your sight. Jesus' name, amen.

8. 0:10:08

   I'm gonna turn the meeting over to Vice Chair Barton. We're gonna start with 1267. We got some people that need to get to another meeting, so I'm gonna turn it over to Chairman Barton.

9. 0:10:18

   Thank you.

10. 0:10:20

    I

11. 0:10:24

    don't know. Please for the... I can do that.

12. 0:10:29

    Got a jillion names.

13. 0:10:37

    All right, Mr. Chairman.

14. 0:10:41

    Let's get everything out of here.

15. 0:10:52

    Well, good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Uh, uh, what I've got before you this morning is, is we're gonna call it the Used Motor Vehicle Dealer Licensing Modernization Act. Uh, the sub to HB 1267, LC 5016S, is what you should have in your packets. LC 39 5016S.

16. 0:11:19

    Everybody good with that?

17. 0:11:22

    Yes, sir.

18. 0:11:22

    All right. House Bill 1267 was a result of the study committee on tops and dealer tag abuse. Uh, we, we had to submit several times over the summer. And, you know, after working with everyone involved in trying to compromise on solutions to address the abuse, you know, it became clear to me that every time I would agree to change the bill to meet their request, they would move the goalpost, bring different changes. Uh, you know, start with wanting to lower the bond, which I, I agreed to do. I lowered it to, to what other states around us are doing.

19. 0:11:53

    Plus Georgia, it's a two-year instead of a one-year bond, so that, that's cheaper. Uh, remove the blank titling, uh, from being a felony. I started out, it was a felony, and then I changed it. Well, if you've been convicted of misdemeanor of doing blank titling, uh, one time, then the second time it'd be a felony. Uh, that still wouldn't work, so I've removed that completely from the bill, from being a, being a felony. Kept, kept moving the goalpost. Uh, the failure to provide proof that they had insurance.

20. 0:12:23

    If they, if they called to cancel insurance, uh, if they didn't provide proof o- of, of reinstatement or either new insurance, then they were required... And we changed it to 10 business days at a request of Dewey McClain. Uh, 10 business days, which is in the present, present bill as well. Uh, but anyway, they wanted to change it from terminate their license to suspend, so we did that. We agreed to do that. Uh, uh, then the, the makeup of the board. You know, we talked about... Well, they went from a 10-man board, a 10-person board, not man, 10-person board.

21. 0:12:56

    Uh, I went to a seven, you know, trying to make it smaller. In, in meeting with them early on, they said, you know, "Let's do not expand the board because we're having trouble getting a quorum." Said, "Okay, I went to a seven-man board. That should be easier." Then first right off of it, last you got four bureaucrats on there and only three from the used car industry, so. Even though one of them was Department of Revenue, who issues the, the, the tops and dealer tags. Law enforcement is, uh, Sergeant Barber, and, uh, not necessarily him, but somebody like him that had at least five years experience investigating motor vehicle thefts, uh, and abuses of tops.

22. 0:13:29

    Uh, AG's office, somebody with Consumer Protection Division, and an insurance department on there where they can, you know, do insurance if they're dropping it, and let them know how that works. I, I thought we had a good mix, but that didn't work, so I expanded it four and four. And then they come back, "Well, you could have a tie." Well, we had a 10-man board. Last time I did math, you could have a tie. So anyway, we, we, we worked on that. And then the common complaint, uh, that, uh, you would get on just about everything, "Well, this only applies to used cars, not franchise dealers." You know, it reminded me of the, the Wizard of Oz.

23. 0:14:06

    If you remember the wizard behind the cur- He said, "Don't pay any attention to the man over here behind the curtain. Look over here." Even though the data shows where the abuse is taking place right here. Just on the front page, the printout I got from Department of Revenue, I have three independent dealers sold 6,000 tops, three cars to go with those 6,000 tops. Here, here's the abuse, and that's what the study committee was about, trying to get to this abuse.

24. 0:14:36

    I mean, they're not even trying to hide the abuse. It's right here in plain sight. Uh, but anyway, to, to address the issue of new, new car dealers, I'd, I'd like to ask, uh, my good friend Lehman Franklin, Representative Franklin, to come up and just talk about some of the r- requirements that they have to, uh, adhere to that, that used car don't. If we want to compare apples to apples, uh, I'd ask him. He could, would come to the table and, and tell us some of the stuff that, that they have to do.

25. 0:15:08

    Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate it. Um, and Mr. Chairman, I, I rarely get... I'm, I'm really happy I've got the opportunity to, uh, to share with you guys because I, I feel like I rarely get the opportunity to explain in, in somewhat detail what, uh, the new car franchise dealers have to really go through and the hoops we've gotta jump through. And so I prepared this, uh, this sheet. I wanna read it out to you a little bit, um, and I'll deviate and give you some of my personal experiences. But I hope if time allows, I can just read it, uh, read it through and, and I can do it fast if that works. But, um, I, I wanna start out by saying that franchise dealers are regulated by the Department of Revenue, same as the independent dealers.

26. 0:15:45

    With licensing, the franchise dealers are licensed by the Georgia Department of Revenue, same as the independent dealers. The dealer plates, the use, um, of dealer plates by franchise dealers are regulated by the Department of Revenue, same as independent dealers. Tops, the tops used by franchise dealers are regulated by the Department of Revenue, same as the independent dealers. TBAT, the collection and remittance of TBAT by Georgia and franchise dealers is governed by the Department of Revenue, same as independent dealers. The point is that any legislative changes in this room that y'all decide to do with plates, tops, TBAT, would impact both independent and franchise dealers.

27. 0:16:20

    Um, the manufacturer oversight provides more rigorous layers of regulation. Um, why aren't all the used cars by franchise dealers regulated by used car board? Because used car sales by franchise dealers are an extension of the franchise agreement, which imposes requirements for more stringent than the used car board minimum requirements. So some of the franchise requirements, while independent dealers are not required to have a physical lot, franchise dealers must have a physical lot, a building with a showroom and service facility, the size of which is based on dealer's expected sales volumes and planning potential.

28. 0:16:55

    In practice, this means franchise dealers operate on large tracts of land with franch- with facilities that cost millions of dollars to, to construct. And franchise dealers must regulate, re-in- and reinvest in these franchises to maintain and update them to manufacturer specifications. These requirements far exceed the minimum out- office space of 250 square feet required for used cars dealers. Image requirements. The franchise dealers must also invest in, comply with image programs that are connected, uh, to the manufacturer's trademarks.

29. 0:17:26

    These include large extensive signage and building features such as floor tiles, lighting, and materials. Independent dealers, um, don't have the, uh, such requirements. Just to give you a personal, uh, example of this, I just had to remodel, I own a Toyota dealership, I just had to remodel the Toyota dealership, and had to spend over a million dollars in this remodel. Um, and we, I was required to do it. And in that remodel, I had to do, um, you know, according to what that manufacturer wanted with the color and everything. I, I won't say the dealership's name, but I have a friend that's in my area, that's located in my area.

30. 0:18:01

    He had to, um, redo the tile in his store. Um, and he wanted to use, he wanted to buy the tile from a local, uh, distributor that he does business with. So he went to them, and he got, he matched the tile. I mean, it wasn't the exact model number, if you wanna say, on the tile, but it was the same tile. I saw it, the exact same tile. He put it in the store, and then, uh, the franchise or the manufacturer came back and said, "Where'd you get that? What's the deal? What's the model number?" He told him, he goes, "You can't do that. You have to, uh, you have to buy it from this, and you have to have that certain model number on the tile, or part number, whatever." So they made him rip up all that tile and then lay the same tile again.

31. 0:18:37

    I mean, it's infuriating, but that's just an example of you can't, you cannot go against these manufacturer's requirements, and that's just one simple one. Capital requirements. Franchise dealers must specify networking capital requirements that, that, um, that can reach into millions of dollars. This is the same as the bond, basically, that we're required to have this capital on hand. These standards ensure franchise dealers can sustain operations in, in case of an economic downturn. These capital requirements far exceed the 35,000, um, surety bond required by independent dealers.

32. 0:19:10

    My personal bond or capital requirements is 4 point, $4,240,238. Uh, that's, that's what I have to have. So 4.2 million is what I have to have on hand. I have to have that in case of economic downturn. It's far more than 35,000. Mandatory tools, equipment, and training. Franchise dealers must purchase specified tools, diagnostic equipment to ensure their technicians perform safety repairs at an industry-leading standard. Franchise dealers also must train their employees on how to sell and service new bo- new models.

33. 0:19:43

    These requirements and investments are ongoing. Independent dealers have no such requirements beyond basic conducting of education. I personally, in my store, have spent over $800,000 of acquired training, equipment, um, materials, um, uh, lifts, um, just to be in requirement for, to sell an EV vehicle, a new EV vehicle. Um, there is, and I, I couldn't sell one unless I did this investment. The lifts are higher. You have to have a certain training for the technicians to discard the waste and the batteries and all, and the equipment we have is, is really, um, strenuous.

34. 0:20:20

    Insurance requirements. The state mandated insurance for used cars dealers is, is low. I understand it's, uh, well, it's 50,000, 100,000, and 25,000 liability and property damage coverage. For franchise dealers, manufacturers typically require general liability coverage with much more limits, much more higher limits. Franchise dealers must also carry specialized coverage such as garage keepers liability, uh, protecting customers' cars in service, for example, and open lot coverage protecting from hail, fire, theft, none of which are mandatory for independent dealers.

35. 0:20:51

    So my umbrella for my dealership, my store, used to be three, uh, 30 million. It's 10 million now. Uh, my garage keepers, I have to pay $143,000 in, in a year for the garage keepers. The garage keepers, if you don't know, it's a list of a bunch of different items that cover it. For example, um, that would cover about $250,000 per car that I have. I don't sell rarely sell, if, if ever, sold a car for $250,000. But I have to have coverage for that. Um, that just gives you an example.

36. 0:21:23

    E&O Insurance had to cover that. Um, we also have to have cyber cover just in case we have a breach in our database. That costs me $56,000 a year. Um, that's mandatory that I have to have in case somebody comes in and hacks my database. Performance standards and audits, manufacturers track sales, revenue, customer satisfaction. We call this a C- CSI, uh, scores. Every one of us have to maintain a high CSI scores. Failure to meet these standards result in financial penalties or franchise termination.

37. 0:21:53

    Furthermore, franchise dealers undergo, uh, regular manufacturer audits. Conversely, used car bond invest- um, board investigations are typically re- uh, reactive and only occur after a complaint is filed. So just to let you know, the CSI, if I lower that CSI to a certain point, that's, um, the, the standard that we, that we treat and, uh, uh, with customers, maintain customers. If we lower that to a certain point, the franchise will come in and say, "You're not doing a good job. Um, you're on probation. If you don't move that score up and take care of these customers or treat them in a certain level that we require," they'll take my franchise from me.

38. 0:22:30

    I have no choice. They'll take it from me. And now there's a penalty on it. I think that, uh, if you get on probation, I think you have two years, maybe three, I think it's two years to turn it around, and if you don't, you lose the franchise. So it's serious. Um, I've never experienced that 'cause I run a tight ship. Um, consequences for criminal conduct, conduct. Consequences, most franchise agreements allow for, um, immediate termination if a dealer is convicted of a felony or business-related crime, such as the tops fraud that we see here.

39. 0:23:01

    Georgia's franchise law, um, um, explicitly permits termination for a good cause. Uh, the point here is franchise dealers are heavily scrutina- scrutinized by these manufacturers. The private sector requirements are far more demanding than a minimum standard set by the used car board, requiring all franchise dealers to be double regulated by the board for their own site operations, um, would be re- um, redundant, as they are already held to a much higher standard in accountability. Um, also I just want to point out that if, uh, you know, if we sell used cars that we're keeping under that requirement, if some dealers have a separate used car lot apart from their, uh, their new car franchise, and if we do that, then that lot is, is under, um, the authority of the used car board and under that scrutiny there.

40. 0:23:50

    So, um, so we're double, we're double, uh, um, scrutinized. I just want to read here to make sure that I'm not forgetting anything. Uh, under, under current law, franchise dealers are n- are o- are only exempt from the used car board's licensing if the used car operation is wholly owned and controlled by franchise entity and located at the same, uh, county as the franchise. Uh, this means some used car dealerships owned by franchise dealers are licensed by the board under Title 43 and usually used car operations outside the county of franchise dealers and any used car operation that is particularly owned by the franchise or its owners.

41. 0:24:27

    I, I, I thank you for letting me read all that. I just wanted to make sure that I covered everything. And this is, this is really something that was put together really fast, rapidly. I could, I could do a five-page, uh, more detailed thing about this, but I wanted to get this out because, like I said, I rarely get the chance to, to, uh, to share this and especially have it on record, so I wanted to take, take the opportunity. But I'll be happy to answer any questions in detail that you'd like if, if that, if, if needed.

42. 0:24:53

    Representative Ridley.

43. 0:24:54

    Thank you. Could you, uh, explain to everybody a little bit how the allocation works on the vehicles you get? Like, if you got Toyota trucks and you sell a lot of those, the allocation is a little smaller and, and then you get stuff that you really don't sell that much, but you got to take it anyway.

44. 0:25:09

    That's right. Yeah. So the, the, you know, every manufacturer's different. Every OEM's different. Um, so I, I sell GMs, Chevy, and, and Toyota currently right now. I have Buick and, and, and Cadillac. But what, to what you're saying is, is that, you know, they're, in my market, I'm, I'm agriculture area and truck, I'm truck country and SUV country. If I get those, I could sell them all day long. Um, if I had double the amount of inventory, I could double my inventory sales on that. But I get a certain limited amount. I'm a certain size store. And it depends on how fast I can sell them and how big my store is, and the volume is, is what I get.

45. 0:25:44

    And basically, um, I can request these trucks or, or a certain brand, but it's, um, uh, it's really up to the manufacturer if I get it or not. A lot of times I get cars that won't, I can't sell in my area. Um, but I get them and I have to sell them. I have to find a market for it. I'll give you an example. We had a, um, a Hummer EV, and that's a great vehicle. Um, but I'm, I'm limited to how many people in my market are going to buy a Hummer EV, $120,000 vehicle. I've sold two in my market, and I keep getting them.

46. 0:26:14

    And I have to go down to, to find markets in Florida. I think Land O'Lakes, Florida, was the last one I, I was able to sell it to, but I have to sell it down there. And then when, you know, um, so I, I don't get to really choose which ones I get. I get vehicles that aren't good for my market that I have to sell, um, and not necessarily the ones that, that sell very well. So, um, there's no choice in it. I have to take it. You know, I could push back, but it's no good, you know.

47. 0:26:39

    Representative, Representative McClain.

48. 0:26:42

    Thank you very much, and thank you very much for giving me a, a great lesson on, on franchise dealers. I, I, I guess the biggest concern I have is I'm looking at independent dealers too. I mean, don't, don't get me wrong. I'm, you know, everybody is not a Costco or a Sam or a Walmart or, or a big dealer. I'm trying to make sure that, uh, we don't, we don't get rid of the, uh, the, the small dealers as well. So I'm, I'm just, so I don't know how that works into, you know, I don't know if anybody is gonna come in and say what an independent dealer is about, but, but I do would like to, I- I, I agree.

49. 0:27:18

    I mean, don't get me wrong. I, I love what you're doing and, and that's, that's what corporate does. Corporate makes sure that, you know, the color's correct, the, the, the tile is correct, and everything is correct. Uh, but these independent small and pop- these small and mom and pop stores are what I'm, you know, I'm partially making sure that, uh, that everybody is, is treated fairly.

50. 0:27:42

    Mm-hmm. And I th- I think that's the intent of the bill, and I think that's what we've done. Uh, I, I don't, uh, think anything in the original bill, if you was doing everything l- legit, above board, uh, it didn't affect you at all. Uh, but in, with the changes I agreed to make, I, I've taken everything out of this bill, and I'll get into that if there's no further questions for, for, uh, Chairman Franklin. Do, do you have a question for me, or...

51. 0:28:05

    No, no. I just wanted to know what y'all was getting. I was gonna ask about it, about the vehicle, but that's okay.

52. 0:28:10

    I can help you out flat on that one, that's for sure.

53. 0:28:15

    Representative, Representative Smith.

54. 0:28:17

    Thanks. All right.

55. 0:28:19

    Uh, Mr. Chairman, how long have you been working on this?

56. 0:28:23

    Uh, well, uh, it's, it's probably been at least three, four years now of, of my, myself and other members of the committee have been trying to get a, get, get a handle on this abuse. And, uh, and it, it's been a tough lift. A lot of time, you, legislation get held up on the other side, the, uh, the, the, uh, chamber over there on the other, our, our friends across the aisle. Sometimes it doesn't make it on sunny day. So, uh, so we've been working quite a, quite a long time on this, and I think it's, it's time we, we, we took some decisive action that, that will help, uh, take a bite out of crime, if you will.

57. 0:28:55

    I appreciate your efforts, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

58. 0:28:58

    All right. I, I, I will get into what, what we're doing with, with, with this new sub, uh, th- this bill, what, what we're doing. Uh, uh, section one is basically deals with the, with the, uh, the, the fines, the, the, the penalties, uh, lists the, the felonies. Uh, nobody had issues with far as if you're counterfeiting plates, uh, or, or revalidation decals, that's a felony. If you're messing with the odometer, that's a felony. And if you're falsifying the, the title and you're putting false information on the title, that's a felony.

59. 0:29:30

    The blank titling, that's no longer in there. They, everybody had a heart, heartburn on that. Somebody might accidentally leave that out and inadvertently be, uh, you know, didn't want to get charged with a felony, so that, that, that was taken out. Uh, so basically section one of the bill, that's, that's what we're doing. Uh, stuff that's in there, nobody, nobody had issue with, so that's, that's what we went, went back with. Section two of the bill, uh, is, is, is the major part of the bill. And, and if you remember in, in committee, uh, one of the questions I asked the Secretary of State's office, you know, "How, how often do you go around and do investigations?

60. 0:30:02

    Just show up and..." And, and the answer, if you remember, said, "We don't." They don't have the personnel. Only time they investigate is when they get a complaint. Uh, and, and then they don't have the data, the information they need to do the investigation. You know, Department of Revenue, they issue the, the, the tops and, and, and the dealer tags, uh, and they have the tax information, all that, which i- which is confidential information. And so Secretary of State's office doesn't have that information to, to do that. So in section two of the bill, what we are doing, we are moving the functions that are now under the Used Car Board and Used Motor, uh, Parts Dealers to the Department of Revenue.

61. 0:30:38

    We're moving it all in one place. Uh, previous meeting, you, uh, Chairman Powell mentioned about other, uh, licenses are done this way. The, the alcohol license, you go, you check whatever box, A, B, C, D, you check those boxes, you get your license. So we're eliminating that board. Uh, so it sets up the powers, uh, uh, and definitions of the board. And I s- everybody has a handout that, that looks, looks like this on, on one page. It says, "How does it work?" And it's talking about far as getting a license now, and then this is a condensed 30,000-foot view of what you've got there, uh, far as, you, you got to have your established place of business, permanent sign, telephone, training courses, certificate of registration, the bond, public liability, and then, and all this stuff.

62. 0:31:24

    And it's not all the stuff, but that's just a 30,000-foot view. That's what we're doing in section one of the bill, moving that from the bo- in, into this bill. The, the second part o- of the bill, we're, we're actually taking and the, appointing a advisory council. Um, and there's five members appointed by the governor, and they will, their, their responsibility... And, and to be a member of that, you have to be one, uh, a, a person that is eligible for a license under the current licensing.

63. 0:31:55

    So it would be five people from the industry will be that advisory council. And their job will be to take, take and go over all the rules and regs and, and figure out, you know, which ones they need to keep, which ones they need to modify, and which ones they need to do away with. And then they make, to make recommendations to Department of Revenue to, to that effect. That's, that's what that advisory council, uh, does. Uh, and they, they, uh, after 180 days after, uh, this bill takes effect, then that board, uh, will be dissolved.

64. 0:32:25

    The advisory council, not board, will be dissolved. Uh, then it only takes effect, the last part of the bill, none of this takes effect in, in, in, in section two of this bill unless there is a line item in, in the, the budget, uh, to appropriate funds to, to fund this at the Department of Revenue. And that's, that's, that's what we're doing with the bill. Uh, I'll stand for questions.

65. 0:32:54

    Representative Taylor, what number's Taylor? Representative Taylor, do you still have a question? Do you still have a question?

66. 0:33:02

    Thank you.

67. 0:33:02

    Uh, Mr. Chairman, I, I've been reading the definition of an established place of business.

68. 0:33:08

    Yeah.

69. 0:33:08

    Now, how does that impact in the requirements in the-

70. 0:33:11

    Yes, yes

71. 0:33:11

    ... in the definition of it?

72. 0:33:12

    In the definition, right.

73. 0:33:13

    The, um, e-commerce, so- E-commerce is electronic. How can you... Are you saying in the bill that anyone that's operating an e-commerce bill must also have a established place of business?

74. 0:33:26

    This, this is no different than it, than it is, is now. It, it... We're not changing anything in, in current law. If they're operating their, how they operate now, we're not changing that.

75. 0:33:34

    Even though the definition includes they must have a sign and-

76. 0:33:38

    You, you still gotta have a sign. They, they have signs now, those established, but they still gotta have an office. They gotta have-

77. 0:33:42

    That's what I'm asking.

78. 0:33:43

    They, they-

79. 0:33:43

    So they do have to have a physical office

80. 0:33:45

    ... you, you've got to have the office to sign the telephone, file cabinet. Uh, th- those requirements are still there. That, that hadn't changed.

81. 0:33:52

    Okay. Thank you.

82. 0:33:54

    Representative Alexander.

83. 0:33:56

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Mr. Chairman, I was wondering if we could hear from DRR, 'cause I know that that's, they're gonna require more staff. I understand-

84. 0:34:05

    Yeah

85. 0:34:05

    ... you said it would be the line item in the budget.

86. 0:34:06

    Yeah. And, and, and, and they're, they're here an- and, and they've got a, got an estimate I, I can, I can pro- provide to that-

87. 0:34:13

    Okay

88. 0:34:13

    ... and they can provide as well what that will, will require. And like I say, if there's not funding, if it doesn't get appropriated, this doesn't take effect.

89. 0:34:20

    Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

90. 0:34:22

    All right. We can go to, we have some people who are speaking on the bill and, uh-

91. 0:34:26

    You're good.

92. 0:34:27

    We're good.

93. 0:34:27

    Appreciate it.

94. 0:34:27

    Are we good?

95. 0:34:28

    Thank you.

96. 0:34:29

    All right. Uh, Matt, I'm gonna mess your last name up. Marty? Beaudry. Beaudry. Do you want me to come sit next to you? Chairman Corbett? Or here. Whichever one you prefer. I'll sit next to him.

97. 0:34:38

    I won't bi- I won't bite. I know that. Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. Uh, I wanna thank you guys for this. I, I know it's a lot of work, um, and we represent the e-commerce, as you guys know, and, and I heard, uh, you know, Mr. Lehman here speaking about his big business. We're a small business. I, I personally this week sold two cars and one motorcycle, and, uh, I do this for extra cash of course, 'cause my wife likes to go on cruises and stuff, right? And, you know. So, um, the two people that I sold cars to this week, one was a gentleman who was helping his son get his first car.

98. 0:35:09

    The average, uh, cost of a used vehicle on a, uh, franchise dealer's lot is $28,000. Those aren't the people we are going for. Our business, our business are 2,500 to $8,000, $9,000. The cars I sold were $5,500. One was actually 55, one was 58 this week. Uh, the one car that we sold was, um, to a gentleman, like I said, he was helping his son. He gave him half the money. They were so ecstatic. They got a great car. I know it was a great car. Um, the second gentleman that, uh, that purchased a car had an accident last week, had to get to work the next day, was in dire need of a car.

99. 0:35:42

    We were able to get him that car. So we're talking apples and oranges when we're talking franchise and e-commerce dealers. Again, our market specifically goes for those neighborhoods. Fraud, I hate fraud. As, as, as a believer, I'm totally against that. That, that doesn't... I, I, I, I, I love what you put in for fraud, honestly. I think it's the best thing ever. Um, I think we need to attack it hard. I think we need to put the regulations in there to, uh, make those, um, uh, you know, those penalties high, to make those felonies. I 100% agree with that. The only thing that I'm concerned about when it comes to this, and, and thank you for everything you did with motorcycles and all the other things, um, the only thing that concerns me is the fact that if we...

100. 0:36:20

     Number one, the cost of moving it over, and he's already, uh, uh, talked about that. But the second thing is, is that now it sets up a, um, a rules base where they could come, where, where the, uh, uh, basically the Department of Revenue come in and say, "Okay, it's a 250 square foot rule," and now we, we have to legally battle that and it, it makes it tough. If, if there was something in there that, that sets it up where it's a legislative, where there... You know, 'cause again, fraud doesn't occur through square footage. It d- it, it occurs through bad apples. And, and, yes, let's get rid of the bad apples, let's do all that kind of stuff, but let's not affect a small business being able to get off the ground and start.

101. 0:36:55

     That's really what we're asking for.

102. 0:36:57

     Thank you. I didn't, I didn't tell everybody, we're gonna try to keep these comments down to a minute.

103. 0:37:01

     Yep.

104. 0:37:02

     But, but you have to... We do have a question. Uh, who do we have? Okay. Oh. Chairman Prince.

105. 0:37:10

     Uh, thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you for your-

106. 0:37:12

     Thank you

107. 0:37:12

     ... testimony. And my question is to you, based on what I just heard you say, so what is your, uh, what is your issue with-

108. 0:37:20

     Well, the biggest issue is just ensuring that we don't make this a barrier to entry by moving it over to the Department of Revenue, where now they set the rules on square footage tops, all that kind of stuff, and it basically eliminates our model of the e-commerce dealer-

109. 0:37:33

     You should take the time

110. 0:37:33

     ... trying to operate from a, a small, from an office, a smaller business.

111. 0:37:38

     Okay. Thank you. And what I think I heard you say is, uh, to, in my words, not yours, but, uh, that we're afraid that they may, the Department of Revenue may change the standard that you-

112. 0:37:49

     Correct, 'cause they would have the power to do that

113. 0:37:51

     ... and thus you would then have to-

114. 0:37:53

     Could possibly

115. 0:37:54

     ... I mean, could be within your stand, what you have now, but could be, uh, that you have to change something or other.

116. 0:37:59

     Correct.

117. 0:38:00

     Okay. And-

118. 0:38:01

     Yes, sir.

119. 0:38:02

     But right now, and Mr. Chairman, you correct me if I'm wrong, that that authority does not lie with them. It still lies with the Secretary of State with the possibility in this bill-

120. 0:38:12

     Cor-

121. 0:38:13

     ... of it being transferred to-

122. 0:38:15

     Chairman Prince, as far as the, the square footage requirement-

123. 0:38:18

     Yes

124. 0:38:18

     ... that's an existing law. That's nothing in this bill. That 250 will take effect with, with or without this bill.

125. 0:38:25

     So regardless of who's in-

126. 0:38:26

     But regard- regardless of that's-

127. 0:38:28

     ... who's in charge

128. 0:38:28

     ... regardless of who's in charge, that 250 is-

129. 0:38:31

     That, that's 250

130. 0:38:31

     ... is current law. I'm not, I'm not doing anything with that in this bill.

131. 0:38:35

     Thank you. That's what my clarity.

132. 0:38:37

     One other thing. That, that, that, uh, square footage was defined by the board this year, uh, to include breakaways, hallways, restrooms, et cetera. So it, it's fine the way it sits. I'm just saying if it was to be changed, it, that could affect it down the road, and it would affect 4,000 dealers.

133. 0:38:52

     Representative Ridley.

134. 0:38:53

     Um, I think-

135. 0:38:54

     You want Alan?

136. 0:38:55

     To answer my... Well, I was just gonna say that, that that's already in the law right now.

137. 0:38:59

     Right.

138. 0:38:59

     And, and I mean, now, with all due respect, I think what, what you're really saying is, uh, by the current stuff, because we don't have anybody coming and checking and stuff, you kind of get away with it, but now when we put it under them, that's gonna be pretty strictly guided.

139. 0:39:12

     I, I don't have a problem with strict guidance. I, I just have a... I wanna make sure that we're not basing- ... an industry, uh, in trying to squeeze an industry because we don't like what they do or the fact that they're, uh, you know... A- again, the square footage issue, and, and I'm just saying this, please, I know it, it's time. I, I'm ready to go. Um, the 250 square foot is not solving anything because people that are doing the bad things, they're gonna go find a 250 square foot office if there's one available. I can tell you because, y- you know, I'm heavily involved in this. Zoning around Atlanta, if you live in the Atlanta area, you can't find a space.

140. 0:39:44

     You can't find used car space. You can't find lots. They don't exist.

141. 0:39:48

     Okay.

142. 0:39:48

     So you're basically pigeonholing an industry.

143. 0:39:51

     I don't think we're pigeonholing. I think we got a problem and we're trying to fix it.

144. 0:39:55

     I, I agree.

145. 0:39:55

     And I think we've worked with y'all, uh, pretty diligently.

146. 0:39:58

     Mm-hmm.

147. 0:39:59

     And, and as, as Chairman Corbett said, every time we got the one spot, y'all want something else and something else and something else. And we've got to fix something. That's what our job is. And to Chairman Corbett's thing, I think it's been about six years we've been working on this on and off.

148. 0:40:13

     It's been a long time.

149. 0:40:13

     Uh, I mean, it's got to the point that the governor's office has gotten involved in helping with us, um, because we do have so much problem going on. I understand your business model and I respect that, but I mean, we've got a problem with it we've got to fix, and sometimes you gotta start with, with nails and, and work your way up. So I mean, that's kind of what we're having to do right now.

150. 0:40:32

     And, and again, I don't disagree with any of the fraud, uh, things that we're looking at doing. I think it's wonderful. I really do. I su- wholly support that. We want the bad actors out as bad as everybody else.

151. 0:40:43

     Chairman Powell.

152. 0:40:45

     Thank you, Mr. Beaudry. Uh-

153. 0:40:48

     You're welcome

154. 0:40:48

     ... you know, I'm sitting here and I'm listening, and I've watched all of the discourse that's been going on during this session on this, and I want to thank, uh, Chairman Corbett for his work on this. You know, we've, as, uh, Representative Ridley said, we've been working on this thing, been viewing this thing for several years. And, you know, I had... So I'm somewhat of a dinosaur. I've been a product of this committee for 36 years.

155. 0:41:15

     Mm-hmm.

156. 0:41:15

     I was a used car dealer once upon a time. And, uh, we saw a lot of things, and things have evolved so much in our society today.

157. 0:41:25

     Yes, sir.

158. 0:41:26

     But there's one thing that I've always kept in mind, and that's that a used car, a car of any sort, is probably the second-biggest investment that people make.

159. 0:41:36

     Mm-hmm.

160. 0:41:36

     And there needs to be a channel so that these people know what they're dealing with. Now, in all of this that came up, and I thank it a lot of the legitimate e-commerce-

161. 0:41:46

     Mm-hmm

162. 0:41:46

     ... and I presume you're a legitimate e-commerce-

163. 0:41:49

     Absolutely

164. 0:41:50

     ... person. Um, you know, technology is probably a wonderful thing, but it's led more, has given more rise to fraud than anything.

165. 0:41:57

     Mm-hmm.

166. 0:41:58

     We heard testimony during the, uh, study committee hearings this past summer about, uh, and I think there's, Chairman Corbett, how many, the escalation of used car licenses, it was going to how many?

167. 0:42:12

     Uh, all, all total y- uh, about 7,500, and about 4,300 of those are e-dealers.

168. 0:42:19

     So the old traditional used car dealers that had the lot, had the office and those type of things.

169. 0:42:25

     Mm-hmm.

170. 0:42:25

     And out of these 4,300, I'm trying to remember the numbers, but very few of them had even sold cars, but were they eligible for TOPS? We had a guy that came in and testified that, uh, was the landlord of one of these companies.

171. 0:42:41

     Uh-huh.

172. 0:42:41

     And he wheeled a hand truck full of TOPS in, and the TOPS were only part of the problem that we were dealing with. But that's part of the issues that I think we're dealing with, and that's about the legitimacy of the industry itself. By no means am I criticizing someone like yourself that's doing, uh, a legitimate business. We saw videos about the consumer issues. We had a lady who went from Peter to Paul that bought the daughter's car, been odometer readings that had been rolled back, fraudulent sales, and that's what we're trying to get to in this.

173. 0:43:14

     The, uh...

174. 0:43:18

     You talk about the real estate prices. Does that seem to be the biggest impediment?

175. 0:43:23

     It, well, it's, it's the way it is here in the metro Atlanta area. The, everything has to be zoned. A- as you know, I'm very familiar with this. So the zoning, um, for these people in order to get it, and, you know, it's all coded to fire marshals and how much occupancy can be, et cetera, uh, the 250 square foot offices don't exist. And, and so therefore you're putting something on somebody that they, they can't physically meet it. Um, and that's, a- and again, if you look at it, the people that are committing fraud, they can find a bigger office somehow, and they'll pay the 15 or...

176. 0:43:55

     If you're making $50,000 a month on TOPS, the, you're not putting the bad actors out of- out of commission. You're putting the guys that are driving Ubers and trying to make a living to make their house payment next month. Those are the people that we're affecting. Do we want to get rid of the bad actors? I don't allow anybody from out of state to rent any offices in my buildings, period. They, you can come check them. We don't do that. Um, you know, it, it... But we gotta look and put the blame where the blame belongs. And you're right, it's the second-largest, um, purchase that these people have, but some of them don't have $25,000.

177. 0:44:26

     They don't have five grand. They live paycheck to paycheck, month to month, and they're just hoping to get a car that's gonna satisfy them so they can get to work tomorrow, like the two, uh, uh, the two, two instances that I mentioned. So again, I, I'm all for, Chairman Cor- I hope you understand that. I'm all for putting the, the, the brakes in place and not allowing them to have unlimited TOPS, for instance, or unlimited dealer tags. But we have to be, we have to look out for our businesses 'cause we are a small business state, right? I mean, we, we ..., that's what Governor, Governor Kemp said.

178. 0:44:58

     He started his business with a shovel and a pickup truck. So I understand. I, I'm ... But the whole thing is, I just want you guys to understand, we're affecting small business.

179. 0:45:06

     So if I might-

180. 0:45:06

     And we just don't want to affect small business

181. 0:45:07

     ... ask you a question. So-

182. 0:45:09

     Yes, sir

183. 0:45:09

     ... you said you're in e-commerce, but you own a building-

184. 0:45:11

     I do

185. 0:45:12

     ... that you rent to other-

186. 0:45:13

     Mm-hmm

187. 0:45:13

     ... how many agents do you, or how many used car licensees do you have in your building?

188. 0:45:18

     Uh, around 350.

189. 0:45:20

     And what's the size of your building?

190. 0:45:22

     Uh, I have s- I have five or six around the Atlanta area to meet the requirements.

191. 0:45:27

     So these people, do they actually have an office or-

192. 0:45:30

     They absolutely do

193. 0:45:31

     ... is it a drop box?

194. 0:45:31

     No, there's no b- You're not allowed to do that. It has to have a desk, two drawer lock file cabinet, chair, signage. Uh, it has to have a directory at the nearest point of entrance. There's a whole bunch of things that's required.

195. 0:45:40

     And out of the 4,600, how many do you-

196. 0:45:43

     4,6- 460 are folks

197. 0:45:45

     ... these folks sell, actually sell vehicles?

198. 0:45:47

     I mean, I, I wouldn't know who sells what. I know some of them, it's been a struggle to get started. Sometimes it takes a few months to get going. Some of these guys have, buy a car, they sell it, they have to wait a month or two to get money to buy another one, to get their business off the ground, just like all of us when we started. I mean, I started that business nailing together offices and plunging toilets. So I mean, it's not like I'm a multimillionaire sitting here trying to protect something. You know, I, I worked the American dream to get to where I'm at today.

199. 0:46:11

     Uh, we have several more, uh, speakers, but-

200. 0:46:13

     Yes

201. 0:46:13

     ... one last question. Uh, Representative Alexander.

202. 0:46:16

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I don't, I don't think any of us sitting up here would want to hinder or harm a small business, 'cause we support small businesses. Um, when you talk about those 4,000 dealers, looking at the bill as it is now with the draft, I hear you saying, are you saying you're good with it?

203. 0:46:38

     My only concern is, as I mentioned, if it goes over to the Department of Revenue, that they don't try and put more stringent, um, pieces on this. Because at that point, there's no board, there's no legislative angle to go. It's strictly them determining what it's gonna be and that's it. There's hearings, but it doesn't mean anything if, if it goes-

204. 0:46:56

     Right. And we haven't heard from the DOR right now-

205. 0:46:58

     Correct

206. 0:46:59

     ... at this point.

207. 0:46:59

     We will.

208. 0:47:00

     Okay.

209. 0:47:00

     Correct.

210. 0:47:00

     Thank you, I appreciate it.

211. 0:47:02

     Thank you.

212. 0:47:03

     Thank you.

213. 0:47:04

     All right. Mr. Edens.

214. 0:47:05

     Thanks for allowing my time.

215. 0:47:14

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My name's, uh, Brent Edens. I'm a property manager that leases e-commerce dealers in Woodstock, and I'm a GCADA board member. I have a three-minute statement I'd like to read, if you'll allow it. Okay. Um, I'm here in regards to remarks Representative Powell made in committee two weeks ago, uh, on February 20th. He proposed eliminating the used board, motor vehicle board under the Secretary of State, and moving all dealer licensing to the Department of Revenue.

216. 0:47:45

     In his justification, he stated, I'm quoting, "One of the guys told me that when they changed the rules about lot requirements and office space, that they were told that they had to do it by the Attorney General G- General's office. And I made some inquiries. Well, that's not exactly so, is what I was told," unquote. Those remarks imply that the board falsely used the AG's office as cover for the 250 square foot rule that the board set up.

217. 0:48:17

     And on that basis, he asked the committee, I quote, "Why do we need a board?" Well, here's the problem with the argument. HB 630, which this commette- committee just approved last year in 2025, newly added code section 43476. It gave the board explicit power and duty, quote, "To set the minimum size requirement and standards of an established place of business," unquote. That line of code, it's not ambiguous, and was only, the only line purposefully added to that section.

218. 0:48:54

     When the board implemented rules for an established place of business, it exercised authority to im- interpret the written code. Whether the AG directed it, advised on it, or had, uh, nothing to do with it, is not relevant. The board didn't need the AG's permission. This committee gave the board that discretion. So just to recap, the committee gave the authority to the board to set the standard. The board used that authority.

219. 0:49:25

     It doesn't sound that Rep Powell likes the outcome, and his solution is to abolish the board for exercising the authority granted it to them. Now, they say that perception is relative. They say perception

220. 0:49:49

     is reality. And from the outside looking in, that doesn't look like streamlining. It looks more like retribution. HB 551 is working and reducing fraud. Moving all oversight to the Department of Revenue is the equivalent of a hammer looking for a nail. I respectfully ask the committee to recognize e-commerce dealers as the legitimate businesses they are, and give HB 551 time to have its effect on the crooks.

221. 0:50:22

     If fraud is knowingly transpiring in the ranks of the e-commerce dealers, GCADA is dedicated to bringing that to light to both the board and this committee. Thank you.

222. 0:50:36

     Any questions?

223. 0:50:40

     Okay. So Chairman Powell.

224. 0:50:43

     I think I need to respond to that. And I appreciate it, but I can assure you that any comments I made's not retribution. One of our duties as legislators that we are the final authority. Boards are put into place. We have a split system right now dealing with used cars. One is that the actual mechanics of dealing with tags, titles, and the such goes to revenue. Rules of operation go to the board. One of the issues that I've had for a number of years is the bureaucracy, the system of bureaucracy, boards, authorities, and departments that pass rules and regulations that have the effect of law, that overextend what the intent of the general assembly was That's the reason one of the most popular bills that passed the House this year that I think every person in attendance on this committee voted for, and that was putting all agencies, boards, uh, and departments under the Administrative Procedures Act so that they would report to the legislature and to the chairmans of that committee any rules and regs that they, that they change.

225. 0:51:51

     Now, further on your comments, the fact that we have two agencies, the Secretary of State's agency that it, uh, through where the boards are held, and the Revenue that handles the other, we've got two systems here, and it needs to be under one. It could either all be under Revenue, or it could all be under Secretary of State's office. But since the obvious is that you have tags, titles, and all of those, then the obvious place would be the Revenue Department, and that's quite frankly where it came to.

226. 0:52:24

     Uh, further, I would like to make a comment among the real estate part of this. You know, this is a business, uh, the folks that are in the business, and it seems to me that all the money and influence that's been put, uh, as far as for the e-commerce has all been at behest of the insuran- or to the real estate personnel. If you wanna be in the business, be in the business. That's my personal view. If you're gonna be dealing with the consumers, if you're gonna be dealing with the state on these other issues, then you need to have an office.

227. 0:52:56

     Nothing was probably no truer than some of the videos that we saw about, uh, the consumers that had to search everywhere and had to get the press involved to find out who was actually responsible. There needs to be an office so that service, uh, that service can be performed, not on a Dropbox or not anything else. Now, I'm not condemning all of the, uh, all the e-commerce folks, I guess they're getting started. But as far as the real estate, if the city of Atlanta or Fulton County, if they don't have locations, then you have to go to where there's a location, and then they're gonna lose that revenue at that point, and that's quite frankly how it looks.

228. 0:53:40

     Um, the board itself, I've dealt with, uh, I've dealt with boards, uh, in my role at Regulated Industries. I don't, uh, condemn most of these boards, but the reality is, in this industry, if Revenue, if this is successful, and it goes to Revenue, then there will be a criteria that's already been established for the biggest part by the board that you do X, Y, Z, and then you have a license. And then the rest of it is quite simply regulatory by the, uh, rules and regs on tags and the titles.

229. 0:54:14

     There's so many things in here that need to be dealt with. During all of these hearings that we had, and apparently a lot of people have forgot when they talked about tops and they talked about dealer plates and they talked about the, the counterfeiting of tags that goes on. Nobody's blaming the e-commerce or any other used car dealer. But what we're doing is trying to put some guardrails onto this so that it is a legitimate industry again. At the best, at the worst of times, used car dealers have been equated to lawyers and politicians, and that is the truth, which is, which isn't exactly fair to the legitimate used car dealers.

230. 0:54:55

     Those are the folks that are out there that have put their time, they put their investment, they put their expertise into place to sell these products to the, to the public. But there needs to be guardrails. We heard all of the, we heard all of the, uh, testimony about the public safety issues, uh, from the law enforcement officer, from whatever that squad was that deals with, uh, fraud and such as that. But we know, we do know that the committee that heard all that information was how the tops got completely out of hand, that it became like selling, uh, option tickets.

231. 0:55:35

     Uh, and that has been somewhat tempered down, and I think they've got a lot more to go. So I'm not sure that the, uh, the used car folks have been, uh, maybe more stirred up because it's not gonna change. The legitimate used car dealers are gonna continue to be legitimate. Their final recourse is to come back to where it should always be. If there's changes that need to be made to the Revenue Department, if this happens, then that's gonna be every member on this committee and every member of the General Assembly to put in legislation to change that.

232. 0:56:15

     This is about stopping the fraud, and the fraud's not with all used car dealers, nor with all the e-commerce. But the e-commerce has certainly led some questions to all of this when you have forty-three hundred of them, and just a very few of them are actually car dealers. I mean, the whole stick of this industry is that we've got people who are running dealer plates on vehicles. You get a license, you're an e-commerce dealer, whether you sell one or none or ten or more.

233. 0:56:47

     You get dealer plates. People run dealer. They've always been notorious about running dealer plates on family cars. That's avoiding the TAVT tax. I talked to the, uh, a gentleman who's deeply involved in the regulatory system. He told me just not over an hour ago that he suspects that there's probably over a hundred million dollars a year that's been escaped by TAVT taxes, by people running dealer plates and things like that.

234. 0:57:18

     That's not what we're in the business up here to do. We're in the business as, as the legislature to try to fix problems and to create a pathway, and that's what this is about.

235. 0:57:31

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right, let's go to the, our next speaker, and let's try to, uh, keep it less than a minute 'cause we have s- a few more left to go. Um- And we have young Bill. And we have Bill, yeah. Uh, Rondas Cavender. And tell who you are and what you re- what you represent.

236. 0:57:59

     I'm Rondas Cavender. I own Cavender Auto Sales. We're located in, uh, Gainesville, Georgia. We've got approximately 25 employees, and this year marks our 30th year in business, and I'm a member of the Georgia Independent Dealers Association. Let me start by saying I appreciate the opportunity to speak today regarding Bill 1267. Now, while we all want to ensure dealers play by the rules and weed out bad dealers, I have a lot of concerns regarding parts of 1267 affecting good dealers. I think it has potential to become burdensome with unintended consequences.

237. 0:58:31

     I wanna take this opportunity to address some of those concerns. I feel like this bill is predatory towards small business, and quite frankly, there's no mention regarding, uh, franchise dealers in the entire bill. As discussed a couple weeks ago on, on Tuesday, um, some, some of our current system has some holes in it, and it could become fraud. I commend Mr. Corbett for taking the initiative to close some of those holes. However, this particular bill feels unnecessary.

238. 0:59:01

     Uh, Bill 551, if I'm not mistaken, that passed last year, uh, covers a lot of the fraud and abuse regarding tops, and I believe it deserves an opportunity to be sawed through before we pass other legislature that may not be necessary. And my experience in business has been when unnecessary legislature gets passed, it has unintended consequences for small business. We saw a video a couple weeks ago on Tuesday that does not depict any dealer I know. Uh, we all agree that that behavior should constitute a felony, and someone doing that should not be in business and should be in jail.

239. 0:59:35

     When I say I have concerns over parts of this bill, a big concern for me would be the intent or intended parts that were discussed a couple weeks ago as this bill was gone over. Um, that's the biggest issue from the business perspective. Who makes those determinations? Changing the makeup of the used car board is part of this bill. That is a concern because it opens up the possibility of someone not familiar with our business interpreting something wrong versus the current structure, where they're very familiar with how used car dealers operate.

240. 1:00:08

     An increase in fines and penalties could potentially put a lot of good dealers out of business due to a simple mistake or intent being determined by the wrong person.

241. 1:00:16

     All right, Mr. Rondas, I appreciate it. If you wanna finish up, you need to finish up.

242. 1:00:20

     Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I've had the privilege over the years of doing a lot of continuing education in our industry, and, uh, whenever I talk to my colleagues from other states, you always come away feeling very fortunate to do business in Georgia. I feel like the state of Georgia has always done a good job of taking care of small business, particularly in our field. I always feel like the lawmakers in our state understood the need for the service we provide, and that is transportation. People need to get to work. They need to get to school, and that's what keeps Georgia's economy moving forward. The parts of this bill that could put a lot of dealers and force them out of the state, taking the jobs and opportunities for terans- transportation they provide with them.

243. 1:00:57

     So I would say in closing, when considering Bill 1267, while it may be intended to weed out bad actors, it has a very negative impact on honest, hardworking dealers that have a long history of doing the right thing. You always have a few bad actors in any industry, but I would ask, please don't punish the majority to weed out the minority. Thank you for your time.

244. 1:01:15

     Well, hang on. We got a question. Representative Ridley.

245. 1:01:17

     Thank you. Could, could you give me, like, your top three issues?

246. 1:01:21

     Well, you know, I, I, I didn't get a chance to touch on the bond. Uh, and, you know, the increase in the bond, I know originally it was $100,000, then it went to $50,000. Well, that sounds reasonable. You know, it does open us up for potential for, to be taken advantage of because the bond companies can increase our rates because they would look at that increase, uh, being made, uh, uh, law, there must be something wrong, like fraud. So therefore, they would have an opportunity to take advantage of us. And-

247. 1:01:46

     Would the bond company take advantage of you over 50, going from 35 to 50?

248. 1:01:50

     It's possible. It's possible, yeah.

249. 1:01:52

     And, and that-

250. 1:01:52

     It doesn't take much. I, I'm personally tired of my business being abused by, by insurance, and I think that opens us up for something like that, and I would ask, is it worth that over $15,000?

251. 1:02:00

     Uh, yeah. All right, listen, I'm with you on the insurance deal. Um, but going from 35 to 50 on a bond, and it's every two years instead of every year like every other state is, I don't, I don't see where that's really-

252. 1:02:11

     Does it, does it feel unreasonable? I would agree with you there. The, with the exception of what I mentioned is I think it opens us up to have some serious rate increases in the state.

253. 1:02:19

     Okay. So, so the insurance is, is your biggest issue then?

254. 1:02:23

     Not necessarily the biggest issue. I think the biggest issue for me is the intent- intended parts. There's a lot of that that I, I would have question about, and I think Bill 551 deserves the opportunity to be sawed through before we maybe pass something that's not necessary.

255. 1:02:36

     Okay. Thank you.

256. 1:02:36

     Thank you for your time.

257. 1:02:38

     All right. Let's go to the next guest. Um, Paul Nicholas. Did I get that right?

258. 1:02:47

     Here he comes.

259. 1:02:50

     And let's try not to repeat the same stuff if, you know.

260. 1:02:54

     Yeah. I won't be as professional 'cause, uh, I'm breaking this apart, and we spent 15 minutes learning about a franchise dealer. But, uh, I will, uh, let you know, I was in the franchise world 12 years, independent dealer, um, for the last four, well, 12 years, and I was an e-commerce dealer before. And it was 'cause of the regulations, I had to be an e-commerce dealer first, uh, because of how hard it is to get in. So if you have a family member that wants to get into the used car business, it's already hard.

261. 1:03:25

     And, um, the biggest thing I wanted you to know, because you might not know, the laws that are in place, how many officers do you think we have in place to help enforce those? 50 in the whole state? Last number I heard, three. So it's not a law problem, it's an enforcement issue. He said there's 3 dealers out of 7,000 that have had these, this top spot.

262. 1:03:50

     No, no, no. Timeout.

263. 1:03:51

     No, that was just the front page.

264. 1:03:52

     That, that was just three on the front page.

265. 1:03:54

     Okay.

266. 1:03:54

     There, there's multiple.

267. 1:03:55

     Okay. So let's say it's 500 out of 7,000. We have three officers to go after those. So we want those dealers gone. And what I think is great about the way the tops are now, you know who the bad dealers are because it's affordable for them to be able to do it that way. If we make it unaffordable, our tops are printed on paper. It's got a sticker on the back. That could be duplicated by a graphic artist in five minutes. Now you have no record of them.

268. 1:04:27

     They're still printing off tops. So it's an enforcement issue, not a laws issue. I've got a ton more. I'm not gonna go into that. My biggest thing is I wanted you to know it's an enforcement issue, ladies and gentlemen. It's, it's not laws.

269. 1:04:42

     All right. Thank you, sir.

270. 1:04:43

     Thank you.

271. 1:04:43

     Do you have a question? Mm-hmm. Number two.

272. 1:04:46

     Yeah.

273. 1:04:46

     Chairman.

274. 1:04:47

     To your point about the, uh, the enforcement piece, would it, uh, with DOR having, I would say, more resources, for lack of better words, than the secretary of state to enforce this, would that

275. 1:04:59

     I, I believe so.

276. 1:05:00

     Okay.

277. 1:05:00

     And if you want my opinion, I'm ... Uh, the DOR may be the best move. I, honestly, I don't know. And-

278. 1:05:07

     Yeah

279. 1:05:08

     ... I, I would en- enjoy exploring that, but we've not had time.

280. 1:05:15

     But you still think that 551 needs to sort of flush-

281. 1:05:18

     Need-

282. 1:05:18

     ... out before we start doing anything?

283. 1:05:19

     100%.

284. 1:05:20

     Thank you.

285. 1:05:22

     All right. Let's go to the next speaker.

286. 1:05:23

     So.

287. 1:05:23

     Thank you, sir.

288. 1:05:24

     Thank you.

289. 1:05:25

     Mr. Grayson. And tell who you represent. And he may not be here. Thank you.

290. 1:05:34

     Thank you all.

291. 1:05:35

     Uh, Mr. Jones.

292. 1:05:41

     And tell who you are.

293. 1:05:46

     Good morning. Um, as many of you know, I'm, I'm Chris Jones. I'm with the Secretary of State's office. I'm also the executive director of the Used Motor Vehicle Dealer Board. Um, I'm just gonna be as brief as I can be. Um, the agency's position, um, on this bill is, is, is a neutral position, but there is some concern with the two-year imple- implementation period with regards of that will ...

294. 1:06:13

     Some guardrails would be down during that time, the two, uh, two ... the implement- imple- implementation period, and there's a chance for more fraud to come in during that two years. Um, now, as I said, I'm also the executive director of the board, as many, as many of you know, and I'm just gonna defend the board here as far as my staff is concerned. There was something said earlier about there's only inspections whenever there's a complaint. That's not true. I mean, we-

295. 1:06:41

     It's true

296. 1:06:42

     ... we schedule inspections all day, every day. Um, just last year we did over 3,600 inspections on, uh, dealers, and not all, and not those are from, were from complaints. Um,

297. 1:06:57

     when I, when I got the board about eight years ago, you were looking ... If you put in an application today, you would get a, a license maybe by Labor Day. Now we are processing applications, and if you, if you apply today, there's a good chance you'll get your license by, um, St. Patrick's Day. We're working applications quickly. We're getting them done within 20 to 21 business days. Um, so extremely efficient.

298. 1:07:27

     And I have a staff of four who do this, who also work complaints. We get well over 2,000 complaints a year. We process those. We have between 150 and 200 hearings per year, and all this is done by a staff of four. Extremely efficient. Um, so I'm just here to defend my folks. So, uh, personally, I think it's a bad idea to dismantle a board that's working efficiently, um, and move it to the Department of Revenue.

299. 1:07:58

     That's, that's my opinion. So I'll be glad to take any questions that you guys have.

300. 1:08:02

     All right. Representative Taylor.

301. 1:08:04

     I think he just answered the question. You ... So you are not in favor of moving the, um-

302. 1:08:10

     I mean, that's my opinion

303. 1:08:11

     ... the oversight-

304. 1:08:12

     Yeah, that's my opinion

305. 1:08:12

     ... to the, um, DOR?

306. 1:08:13

     Mm-hmm.

307. 1:08:13

     Okay.

308. 1:08:14

     Yeah.

309. 1:08:14

     Thank you.

310. 1:08:14

     'Cause the board's working efficiently now. I mean, they're doing a very good job of what they do.

311. 1:08:20

     Representative Chairman Powell.

312. 1:08:24

     I'm gonna ask a question, and I, I know that that's probably one of the board. All I'm hearing is, are you here at the, uh, request of the, uh, secretary of state? Is this their official position?

313. 1:08:36

     Well, I said the, the, the position of the agency is, is, is neutral on the bill. It's just that there's a, a worry about the, the, the length of implementation of the bill.

314. 1:08:47

     And some of our commentary about the, about the duties being split into two different agencies. I'm sure you've changed your position on that.

315. 1:08:59

     I'm, I'm sorry. Could you say that one more time?

316. 1:09:00

     In the past that we have had discussions and in some of the hearings, uh, you acknowledge the fact that we've got two agencies-

317. 1:09:08

     Mm-hmm

318. 1:09:08

     ... that are having to regulate an industry, basically. Have you changed your position on that, or is it just solely you think it needs to be a board?

319. 1:09:17

     Well, uh, my opinion, it's always been, I've, I've, I've said this before, is it would probably be best if the board, that the board itself as it's constructed now would move to the DOR and be attached to the DOR as a autonomous division of the Department of Revenue, where it could operate on its own.

320. 1:09:35

     So you're saying that the board needs to remain intact, but just move that board over to the-

321. 1:09:40

     Yeah

322. 1:09:40

     ... Revenue Department?

323. 1:09:41

     Yeah. 'Cause the-

324. 1:09:42

     All right

325. 1:09:42

     ... as I said, the, the staff and the board's functioning like it's supposed to. It's, it's extremely efficient. I, I would say, uh, for a, for a government agency or a little, I mean, minor, minor agency, it- it's extremely efficient for what it does.

326. 1:09:57

     One more question then. You're intricately involved in whenever the board meets-

327. 1:10:02

     Mm-hmm

328. 1:10:02

     ... and have their discussions. When I keep hearing reference about 551, in 551, if I'm not sure, that's one that set a 250 foot-

329. 1:10:12

     That's right

330. 1:10:12

     ... minimum for an office space to be a verifiable business. Do you know that, has there been any discussion on that board about the 250 foot, that maybe they won't include the lobby spaces and the corridors and common spaces so it's not necessarily office amount?

331. 1:10:30

     Um, uh, there's been quite a bit of discussion regarding that. And it's, you know, um, the board implemented a policy to, to count that, um, 'cause we were hoping to get some clarification in, in statute this year as far as how that 250 will be counted.

332. 1:10:51

     So was that for clarification, or is that to circumvent the will of the general assembly?

333. 1:10:56

     No, this wasn't, it wasn't to circumvent the will, no.

334. 1:10:59

     I mean, I think the legislation very clear when it was passed last year, that we wanted to see an office area so that somebody could be served, that they would have legitimacy. But then to come back in and the board to say, "Well, let's see if we can include common space of these offices or the lobby space," which brings it all back down in a lot of cases to basically a desk and a chair, or even a mailbox at some point. So that's the issue that I'm talking about. Thank you.

335. 1:11:29

     Okay.

336. 1:11:29

     Appreciate it.

337. 1:11:30

     Oh, thank you.

338. 1:11:31

     How many, how many inspections did you say y'all did last year?

339. 1:11:35

     3,657.

340. 1:11:37

     Okay. I thought you said 36,000 to start with.

341. 1:11:39

     3,600.

342. 1:11:40

     Oh, 3,600. Okay. I was fixing to say, "Now how many people y'all have?" That's where I was going with that. Um, and you said something earlier. Um, I don't remember now what it was, but that's where I was going. I was like, "How in the world are they doing that many?" All right. Thank you.

343. 1:11:57

     Sure.

344. 1:11:58

     All right. Thank you, sir.

345. 1:12:00

     Thank you.

346. 1:12:00

     That's it. And our last, uh, speaker will be from the Department of Revenue.

347. 1:12:19

     Good morning, Chairman, members of the committee. It's great to see y'all. Um, I will speak first from the Department of Revenue standpoint, uh, which is Chairman Corbett has done a great job communicating with us throughout this process. We understand the intent of everything he's trying to do here. Um, we've been able to put together some early numbers for, uh, what it would cost to implement this bill, and we feel, you know, comfortable with those. Um, just I think the biggest thing from our end is as long as the funding is in there, which there's a line in the bill that speaks to that effect, we'll be ready to administer and help out where we can.

348. 1:12:51

     Representative Taylor.

349. 1:12:53

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So going back to the gentleman that spoke prior from the board, if the board is attached to the DO- uh, DOR, excuse me, does that reduce the cost to, of that transition?

350. 1:13:09

     I don't, I don't think there would be any reduction of cost for that transition, no.

351. 1:13:12

     So you all would still... The D- Department of Revenue would still have to hire staff-

352. 1:13:17

     Yeah

353. 1:13:17

     ... create a department for that, and then the board would just be attached to that-

354. 1:13:22

     Yeah

355. 1:13:22

     ... I mean, based on his suggestion.

356. 1:13:25

     Well, well you're saying so based off the gentleman from the Secretary of State's-

357. 1:13:27

     Correct

358. 1:13:27

     ... suggestion? Yes. So I mean, w- we, the effectiveness of how we implement that board, I mean, it is obviously up for discussion, but the, the cost estimates that we have provided are really for personnel strictly focused for the Department of Revenue stance. Is that right?

359. 1:13:41

     Thank you.

360. 1:13:42

     Representative Alexander.

361. 1:13:44

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. What about the, um, your system? Can your system... Is the Secretary of State's system and the DOR system the same for, for data to transfer over?

362. 1:13:57

     So by sy- Could, could you define system a little bit more? I'm sorry.

363. 1:14:00

     Computer system, IT.

364. 1:14:01

     Ah, okay. So, um, yes. I know that we have been working to stand up a couple of communicative things between our two systems as it stands. Um, I know that for the purpose of this bill, everything we have IT-wise, we'll be able to cover it. We will have some implementation costs for some new IT uploads, but it's definitely something that our system can handle.

365. 1:14:21

     Okay. Another question. Um, and so the board, since the board is attached to the SO, to the Secretary of State's office, what are your feelings about that as it relates to the board, um, coming on board with the DOR? I'm just curious, 'cause right now they're not. They're detached. They're with SOS.

366. 1:14:39

     Correct. No, I, we, we appreciate our partnership where it is currently with the Secretary of State's office. We also know we feel very confident our, in ourselves in everything that we do and know that, you know, taking on this, this toll is not something that'll be easy, but it's something that we can definitely do.

367. 1:14:53

     Thank you.

368. 1:14:56

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. A- and this is basically back to, uh, Secretary of State's office. Based on the board that you have now and the way it's operating, have you, do you cons- think, uh, House Bill 551 has had an opportunity to, for lack of better words, flush itself out since y- that's... Right now I think you regulate or sort of oversee that. Is that correct?

369. 1:15:16

     Uh, not yet. I don't think so. It, it needs time to-

370. 1:15:19

     It needs time-

371. 1:15:20

     Yeah

372. 1:15:20

     ... to kick in?

373. 1:15:21

     Yeah, it needs time to kick in.

374. 1:15:22

     So would you think this is a little premature what we're doing now, or, uh...

375. 1:15:28

     Personally, yeah. I would think it's a little premature.

376. 1:15:29

     All right. Thank you.

377. 1:15:29

     It is. Thank you.

378. 1:15:32

     Representative Mathis.

379. 1:15:34

     Thank you. Vice Chairman, I, uh, when we were doing all the meetings, I, I, the Secretary of State and the Department of Revenue were not sharing information. That bothered me greatly when we do that, 'cause I know you use the word preview. We don't have preview to that information. So w- I think that's what their aim is, is to get it under one, uh, thing and, uh, uh, one, one c- uh, department. But we need to share information. I was concerned when he said 3,600 complaints.

380. 1:16:06

     Was that just against the e-commerce, or was that your total amount of, uh, complaints? The 3,600 is the number of inspections that we've done. Okay, the number of inspections. And you said you had what? 2,000 complaints? Over 2,000 complaints, yeah. Oh, about car... about the e-car? About total. Total. Okay. But, uh, yeah, you know, we talked about we need to have more inspectors that knew more about the business. I understand that completely, but I still think that, uh, what this board has, I, I mean, this committee has tried to do is to come to a consensus that one, one agency controls and one that controls the money.

381. 1:16:46

     It's usually how that works. I, I don't, I don't know exactly how, how, how are we going to get every, uh, everybody satisfied with everything that we do. But I wanna try to, because I, I respect these business people. I have a new, uh, outlook on the e-trade talking to some of these folks. But, uh, it seems to me that it's been vetted pretty good. Uh, but I, I just think that we need to stay under, uh, Department of Revenue.

382. 1:17:20

     The board issue, uh, I just don't know. I'm, I'm gonna have to, uh, think about that one just a little bit. But I appreciate y'all, but I just wanna make sure that Department of Revenue and Secretary of State are working together. Yeah, we're, uh, we're- 100%, a lot better than we did during the- Okay ... our meetings. Okay. Okay. We're working on something right now, as they were saying. Sir? We're working on something now, as they were, as we, as, as he was saying just a few minutes ago. And it's gonna help- It's gonna help- ... this industry? It's gonna, it's gonna help a lot.

383. 1:17:50

     Okay. Thank you. Yes. Representative Ridley. Um, if y'all remember, whenever we took this task on, the, the whole issue is the, the Department of Revenue, the tags, the titles, the VIN numbers, all that stuff are under them, and the, and the Secretary of State cannot see any of that. Thanks to the only thing really being housed under the Secretary of State was the license part of it, and the board part of it was, as, uh, uh, Representative Franklin said, with the new cars, it's all under the DOR already.

384. 1:18:22

     So we're just copying what it is now and putting everything under one roof, where that, there's no crossing up of, "I need this, but I can't get it because DOR's got it." So everything's under one roof in one place. Uh, and to go back to the other part of it, some of the, the complaints will go under, right now, go under the Secretary of State's office, but then if it's another type of complaint, then it has to go over to the, to the Department of Revenue's, um, side of it. So that's another reason to kind of move everything under one, where everybody's in one spot, and that way nobody can be pointing fingers back and forth when we have an issue.

385. 1:18:57

     Um, so I just tell y'all to keep that in mind, that that's, that's the whole reason we started this, uh, down this road. Two last questions. Representative Taylor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My concern is making sure that the small businesses are not left out of this picture. Excuse me. So keeping, maintaining the current board and, uh, to sending it over to the DOR, is that sufficient to give those e-commerce, those small business owners, is that the protection that we're looking for? D- I mean, I'm, I'm asking, do you think that's sufficient?

386. 1:19:28

     You're asking me? Or- All of you all. Well, I, I, I think by doing this, it, it, it makes the, uh, coordinating and doing the investigation, it streamlines that, but it also streamlines the licensing process. You check, uh, like they do the alcohol license now. You check, you know, A, B, C, D boxes, uh, you, application, you get your license. So you, you, you're, you're cutting out one step in the process, where the board has to then, uh, submit a form to the DOR. Uh, you, you move, removing that process. It just streamlines the, uh, process.

387. 1:19:59

     I think it, it, uh, actually helps the process. You... Let me make sure I'm, I'm clear. You're saying that, Mr. Chairman, that if you... it streamlines the process if you remove the board- Yes ... and send this directly up by the DO- DOR who has to implement staff to do the same thing that the board was doing. That, that, that, that is correct. And probably the biggest, biggest complaint I get, uh, and probably y'all get a lot of complaints too, i- is about boards. I, I, I get several complaints a month about dif- different boards having trouble either issuing li- renewing license or issuing new license, and you have to make a call to, to, to get that done.

388. 1:20:32

     Well, this, this streamlines that process. And if they still have issues, they wonder, "Well, who do we go to if we don't have a board?" You do just like those, those constituents are doing right now. They come to us, and, and then we make, make that call on their behalf. You know, if they have a process, can't get, can't get, uh, satisfaction from making a call to, uh, everywhere that's housed, then they call us. No different it is now. So what ha- And I'm sorry, Mr. Chairman, to go... So in the instance of, um, where the businesses are being, the board, the, the DR a- DOR is gonna be changing the rules of the game, which is what their concern is, um, what, what happens?

389. 1:21:10

     I mean, where's the protection for those? They just- Well, I, I- Is that what you're just saying, they just come back to us? No, I think, I think they're, they're looking for a problem for every solution is what they're doing. Oh, so you don't have any concerns with them- No ... changing the rules and- No. No, no. No, th- this advisory council will make recommendations- Gotcha ... to, to them. That's what, that's the purpose of that council, to, to make recommendations to the DOR, what's working and what's not. Gotcha. Okay. Last question. Representative. Thank you. Um, Chairman, so the bill is...

390. 1:21:40

     So for clarity, the bill's moving the board to the DOR, DOR or eliminating it?

391. 1:21:46

     It will, will, all about is creating an advisory council is, is-

392. 1:21:49

     For 180 days

393. 1:21:50

     ... uh, from time that it is funding. Now, if it, they will make a recommendation that they think they need to make that permanent, then they can, and we can come back next year and address that.

394. 1:21:59

     Or they can, um, make it permanent, did you say?

395. 1:22:01

     I, I said no, not in the bill. Uh, when they come back next year and make that recommendation, if they think that, that, that they're serving a useful purpose and we need them to continue, then we can, uh, introduce a bill next year to do that. Uh, 'cause it's, it doesn't take effect till, till there's funding in the budget. There's no funding in the budget, so you're-

396. 1:22:18

     And so-

397. 1:22:18

     ... you're looking at next year before that would happen, and that would kick in the 180 days, which puts you in the middle of '27. No, it'd put you toward the end of '27.

398. 1:22:27

     Yeah, it'd put you to the end of '27. And, um, do we have... I mean, the, uh, DO- DOR did say that they were prepared for a fiscal note, but do you know what that's gonna cost?

399. 1:22:37

     It, it, the, the estimate they've got right now is, like, $5.7 million to do that. And you, you heard, uh, the, the, uh, sp- speaker earlier say that the issue they have now, they only got three inspectors or whatever to do all these boards. They're not just inspect- inspecting used car dealers or new car dealers. They're at funeral homes and, and hairdressers, and physical therapists, and occupational therapists. They're doing it all. So that's, that's why it's, it's critical that, that we get the funding to do this. And if you remember yesterday, we passed a bill in here that will save almost $5 million, so that cost is almost covered.

400. 1:23:12

     Uh, I've got an estimate right here for Texas estimated the abuse on these tags was costing them $200 million. They got 11,000 used car dealers. We've got about 7,500, so we're probably about three-fourths of that 200 million that it's costing Georgia with this abuse.

401. 1:23:28

     So if I may, one more question. Um, so the staff on the DOR, so we won't have this board that is trained, they know the, they know the industry. Will the DOR have that kind of backup too for these dealers with their issues?

402. 1:23:45

     I, I, I do have-

403. 1:23:46

     Just the staff, because w- we won't have any-

404. 1:23:48

     The, the, and I, and the example I give you, they do the alcohol license now.

405. 1:23:51

     Right.

406. 1:23:51

     Uh, they have, uh, alcohol dealers on there. You know, pro- probably not, but I, they, they do, they're pretty good at what they do.

407. 1:23:57

     Okay.

408. 1:23:57

     So, and I'll just, I'll just add from a tar- department standpoint, we're well-versed in working with industry partners to effectuate rules and regs. Um, we do it with several different industries-

409. 1:24:07

     We do

410. 1:24:07

     ... and I know that, you know, if, if the parameters of the bill limit the advisory board to a certain number of days, I really doubt that the Department of Revenue will stop there, right? We will always work with our partners to make sure that what we're doing is fair and equal throughout the businesses, whether big, small, left, or right. It's, it's just about making sure that we're doing everything the right way.

411. 1:24:26

     All right, thank you. What's the will of the, of the- Let, let me, uh- Yes, sir ... make a closing, closing statement. There's a lot of stuff thrown, thrown at y'all. I know it's w- went way longer than we anticipated. But what we don't, we don't need to take our eye th- off, off of the issue here, and, and Chairman Powell's hit on it several times, and that, and that's consumer protection. Uh, and you know, they talk about small businesses are gonna hurt this, but what about that 18-year-old, uh, minority, uh, g- girl buying her first car? You've seen the video. Uh, she was taken advantage of with this O- ODONORS. They, and they, they come out and say, "Well, the stuff in the bill is only affects used car dealers." No, the penalties, the penalties in this bill affects everybody.

412. 1:25:03

     That's not just for used car dealers, or franchise dealers, or e-dealers. It's for everybody. Ev- everything that's in this bill, Section 1 of the bill is everybody. So let's eliminate that saying that it's just a- applies to used car dealers. That's, that's false. Um, you know, I, I, we, we... Mr. Jones, I, I, with the Secretary of State's office, I, I, I would advise everybody to go back and look at the, the, uh, video from the study committee we had right here, I believe in this room. Uh, I asked him the question directly. I know it's been eight or 10 months, so we, we forget stuff. Oh, go back and look at the video.

413. 1:25:34

     I point-blank asked, "How often do you do investigations?" "We don't unless we get a complaint." That's on video. I, I, I challenge everybody to go back and look at it. I, you ain't gotta believe me. Look at the video. Uh, so, uh, anyway, I, I just... Let's, let's not take our eye off the prize. And when I s- when I s- uh, started this, y- meetings we had four, five, six years ago, I, I was told about a single mother of three went and spent her last $18,000 on a used car just to come and find out she went to get the title, it had a false VIN on it. It was a stolen title.

414. 1:26:05

     They confiscated that car. She lost her $18,000. It's about protecting that single mother of three. That's what this, this bill is about, to try to help, help those people. So let's not take our eye off of that. So I, I, I'd ask for the committee's favorable consideration. All right. What's the will of the committee?

415. 1:26:20

     I make a motion to do pass.

416. 1:26:21

     Got a first. Got a second?

417. 1:26:24

     Second.

418. 1:26:25

     First and a second. All those in favor say, "Aye."

419. 1:26:27

     Aye.

420. 1:26:28

     Aye.

421. 1:26:28

     All those against?

422. 1:26:30

     Aye.

423. 1:26:32

     Aye.

424. 1:26:32

     Aye.

425. 1:26:33

     Well, look how many raised hands. All those in favor say, "Aye." I mean, raise your hands. You wanna count? One, two, three. I, I, I, I can vote too. I'm on the board. Then I'll, I'll raise my hand too. And all those against?

426. 1:26:51

     Six, six. All right. What does that say?

427. 1:26:53

     Motion fails.

428. 1:26:54

     Motion fails. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. Thank y'all. We, we do have another bill.

429. 1:27:04

     Make a motion to表.

430. 1:27:07

     We lost. Motion failed six to five.

431. 1:27:09

     Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make a motion for reconsideration of Chairman's bill.

432. 1:27:13

     Okay.

433. 1:27:14

     I'll second.

434. 1:27:16

     All right, we have a first and a second. All those in favor of reconsidering?

435. 1:27:20

     Aye.

436. 1:27:20

     Aye. All right.

437. 1:27:23

     Mr. Chairman, I'd like to, uh, lay the bill on the table.

438. 1:27:28

     Hmm?

439. 1:27:29

     Second.

440. 1:27:31

     All, all those in favor of table it?

441. 1:27:32

     Table it.

442. 1:27:34

     We'll table it.

443. 1:27:35

     Table. Oh, wait a minute. I thought we voted on reconsider and vote was deleted.

444. 1:27:39

     We did.

445. 1:27:39

     We did.

446. 1:27:40

     Oh, okay.

447. 1:27:40

     We did.

448. 1:27:41

     And then the

449. 1:27:42

     And then the table motion

450. 1:27:42

     ... the table

451. 1:27:43

     ... was for reconsider

452. 1:27:44

     ... the motion passed to reconsider.

453. 1:27:47

     Mm-hmm.

454. 1:27:48

     So-

455. 1:27:52

     No, no. I have a motion to table. All those in favor of tabling it?

456. 1:27:59

     All those against?

457. 1:28:02

     It's going to be the same.

458. 1:28:07

     He's in the, uh ...

459. 1:28:13

     6-6.

460. 1:28:13

     6-6. I don't have room.

461. 1:28:15

     Motion, motion fails.

462. 1:28:17

     Okay.

463. 1:28:21

     Okay. Motion to table.

464. 1:28:37

     All right, we do have one other bill on the, on the docket this morning, HB 184. Chairman Lumsden, come up. And, and we took testimony yesterday, uh, so I think there's a couple changes they want and everybody's in agreement, so

465. 1:28:53

     the floor is yours.

466. 1:28:55

     Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, uh, I presented House Bill 184 to you yesterday. Uh, this is a bill that deals with, um, uh, the creation of a database relative to having vehicles towed, uh, as well as, uh, some other changes to the existing law concerning, uh, the procedures for, um, uh, involved in that, um, abandoned vehicles and notification of the, um, owners. S- uh, in the section one and two, the minor changes deal with the, uh, dates.

467. 1:29:29

     Uh, October 1st, 2026 is when the process should start, should be operational by January the 1st, 2027. And one change which, uh, we're, we're working from LC 395021S, and as I understand it, uh, there's one change that needs to be made from that, uh, which is on line 26. It references a 501C3. It should be a 501C6. Uh, at the, um, end of the, um, bill relative to dates, uh, they're again effective July the 1st of 2026, uh, with a, um, with the exception of the fact that the database, um, should be effective January the 1st, 2028.

468. 1:30:14

     That just gives time for implementation and putting this, um, ne- new database system in- into process. So that's my understanding of the changes. I think the, um, chairman has worked on this with him, so he's probably familiar with all that which is going on regarding that, so.

469. 1:30:30

     I, I do, and I, I thank you. We got a couple questions. Uh, number 25. Chairman Vance.

470. 1:30:36

     Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, at the proper time, I'd like to offer an amendment.

471. 1:30:39

     All right, we do have a couple of questions. Number 18.

472. 1:30:44

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm, I'm looking at line 68, where you're moving it from 15 calendar days to seven. Is there a reason why? Is ... I mean, is that going to be enough time for-

473. 1:30:55

     With the creation of the database, that, that just brings our, um, that's been on the books for a long, long time, and with the creation of the database, that should cut down the timeframe necessary for, uh, that to take place.

474. 1:31:11

     All right. Thank you.

475. 1:31:13

     Number 19.

476. 1:31:15

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess, you know, I guess where I was the other day was on line 68 too. So is that seven business days or seven calendar days or just seven-

477. 1:31:25

     It's seven, it will be seven business days. It, I, as I understand it, as was mentioned yesterday, whenever it references seven days, that's, uh, business days-

478. 1:31:32

     Business

479. 1:31:32

     ... is the automatic default. Yeah.

480. 1:31:35

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

481. 1:31:37

     All right. Number 20 ... Well, we need a motion on the bill if we-

482. 1:31:42

     Motion to do plan.

483. 1:31:43

     Uh, got a motion. Do I have second?

484. 1:31:45

     Second.

485. 1:31:46

     Uh, we have a motion on the amendment.

486. 1:31:49

     So moved.

487. 1:31:51

     All right. I'm going to let state your amendment.

488. 1:31:52

     Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. On, uh, line 25, um, after the word number, add, "And license plate number," and then on line 26, as mentioned by the chairman, strike three and make that a six.

489. 1:32:15

     Gi- Ginny, you got that? All right. Everybody understand the amendment? Okay. All right. Uh, we got a motion on, uh, we got an amendment. Do we have a second?

490. 1:32:25

     Second.

491. 1:32:25

     Got a motion and a second. Uh, vote on the amendment. All in favor say aye.

492. 1:32:30

     Aye.

493. 1:32:30

     All opposed like sign. All right, voting on the bill as amended. All in favor say aye.

494. 1:32:35

     Aye.

495. 1:32:36

     All opposed like sign.

496. 1:32:37

     No.

497. 1:32:38

     No.

498. 1:32:38

     Got two nos. All right, your bill passes.

499. 1:32:42

     Thank you.

500. 1:32:42

     Thank you. And this meeting is adjourned, and I appreciate everybody's, uh, patience.