House Interstate Cooperation Committee, March 11, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:05:54

   Good a- good morning. Uh, we will, we're confirming our technical setup is ready to go, and, uh, we'll start here in a minute or two, um, once that, uh, screen starts, stops flickering. Um, we'll give, we'll give it a second, and then we'll start off in prayer.

2. 0:06:44

   Jenna, Libby, and Meg, um, can you hear us? We're gonna check your audio.

3. 0:06:50

   Yes, I can hear you.

4. 0:06:52

   Good morning.

5. 0:06:53

   Uh, can y'all see us?

6. 0:06:56

   No.

7. 0:06:56

   No.

8. 0:06:58

   All right. So we are, uh, getting that, uh, straightened out real quick, and we will, uh, be with you shortly.

9. 0:08:09

   While that gets set up, maybe a prayer would assist in, uh, that technical difficulty. So I will handed it over to our, uh, committee leadership, uh, Representative Mike, uh, Cameron, our committee secretary, who's, uh, assisted a lot in, in developing, uh, some of these presentations and some of the recommendations on this agenda today. Representative.

10. 0:08:30

    Thank you.

11. 0:08:31

    Number 15.

12. 0:08:34

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let's pray. Heavenly Father, thank you for bringing us together today. Thank you for your faithfulness through all the generations. Please bless this meeting and the presenters and the members. Help us make good decisions, and help us develop policies that benefit the citizens and everyone here in this state. And we ask this in Jesus' name, amen.

13. 0:09:00

    See if the Lord heard you, Mike. Uh, just as a reminder to committee members, I know this is our first committee of the year. Uh, this will be a hearing, uh, focused on, uh, one of the major tools that, uh, that, uh, Georgia has, every state has in, in federalism. A lot of states call this Committee of Jurisdiction, Jurisdiction of Federalism Committee, um, because it m- primarily deals with items related to interstate compacts. Um, you know, we will utilize some hearings, uh, throughout this year and, uh, potentially next year, uh, to discuss some of the more, uh, pertinent ones, especially as it relates to the fa- the quality of life for families and children around this state.

14. 0:09:43

    So, uh, we appreciate the Department of Families and Children Services, uh, working with us to highlight one of, one of the primary ones we wanted to, uh, look at, which was the, uh, interstate compact related to how child support payments are made when a, uh, one, uh, one of those parents are out of state or the child is out of state. Um, and, uh, if it looks like we're still working on that, um, item, so we might try to...

15. 0:10:13

    Uh, let me first, uh, uh, comment. If there's any member of the committee, uh, like I mentioned, some members had mentioned, uh, making this the, the first, uh, item we highlighted, but if you as, uh, uh, part of your duties or constituent management see a compact that we are part of or that we are not a part of and you wanna bring some more attention to, uh, we're more than open to utilizing the committee process to, um, bring light to it and, and maybe focus more on it. Uh, so I s- extend that open invitation to any member on this committee.

16. 0:10:47

    Um, prior to, uh, this, is there any member who, uh, has any questions or comments prior to starting? All right. Um, if not, um, is there any objection to go, yeah, to, to, uh, starting out with Department of Families and Children Services? We'll modify our agenda a little bit, um, unless, uh, I think that'd be the best at this point, right?

17. 0:11:23

    Uh, Jenna, Libby, and Meg, would, uh, y'all be, uh, available to stay on for the second half of the hour? If not, we can do an audio-only, uh, presentation, but we're having a little bit of difficulty, uh, uh, with our audi- with our visual capacity right now.

18. 0:11:41

    I, I'm flexible.

19. 0:11:43

    Yeah, I'm flexible. I can be flexible too.

20. 0:11:45

    Um-

21. 0:11:45

    Me too

22. 0:11:45

    ... assuming our, uh, Department of Families and Children Services is good to go. So, uh, with that, we will ask, um, Assistant Deputy Commissioner, uh, Sarah Hurst, um, and, uh, Ryan, are you co- And Ryan, uh, Bradley, the Manager of Policy and Paternity Unit to, uh, come up to the podium.

23. 0:12:40

    Here you go.

24. 0:12:50

    Good morning again, Chair Sainz and committee members. My name is Sarah Hurst and I serve as the Assistant Deputy Commissioner for the Division of Child Support Services within the Department of Human Services. DHS has three divisions, our Division of Child Support Services, the Division of Aging Services, as well as the Division of Family and Children Services, commonly known as DFCS. Today, I'm joined by my colleague Ryan Bradley, who serves as our Policy and Paternity Unit Manager, and we also have some other members of our team in the audience with us today.

25. 0:13:22

    The DHS vision is stronger families for a stronger Georgia, and our mission at the Division of Child Support Services, or DCSS, is to enhance the wellbeing of children by locating non-custodial parents, establishing paternity, establishing, enforcing, and modifying support obligations, and collecting and distributing child support payments. Our work centers around increasing the reliability of child support paid by parents when they live apart from their children.

26. 0:13:53

    So on the next slide you can see some of our program data. The authority... Oh, sorry. Can we go back one slide? The authority for our, um, child support program is based on Title IV, Section D of the Social Security Act. The majority of our funding comes from the Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement, with the remaining portion coming from appropriated state funds, and we also receive some additional funds from grants that have been awarded to our program.

27. 0:14:23

    Our program is state-run and state-administered, and we have 55 local offices which are divided into 10 regions across the state. The services that we provide are based on judicial circuits, which is aligned with the authority provided to the Superior Court judges with whom we work. While most of our offices are state-run, we do contract with eight district attorneys who manage 9 out of the 55 local child support offices. And next, we'll take a look at our services and processes.

28. 0:14:55

    So our division pro- provides a number of services to families throughout the life of a child support case. At the beginning, we have the intake process, which is where we receive an application or referral for child support services. After intake, we ensure that we have good employment or residential information for the non-custodial parent, and then we move to establishing paternity. The Division of Child Support Services is required by law to conduct paternity testing in all newly established child support cases in which paternity has not yet been established.

29. 0:15:29

    Once paternity has been established, we move towards court order establishment. We operate off of the shared income model, where child support is calculated based on the income of the parents and certain expenses are also taken into consideration, such as work-related childcare expenses and health insurance. Court-ordered child support payments must come through the state's disbursement unit, which in Georgia is referred to as the Family Support Registry. For those parents who do not make payments according to the court's order, we proceed with enforcement actions, which can include administrative or judicial actions.

30. 0:16:07

    We also have a review and modification process for orders that are at least three years old. However, this process does not guarantee an increase or a decrease in the child support amount, as the review may result in a no change order. Many of the parents that we serve have a variety of barriers which may prevent them from being able to pay their child support as they would like to. We have several outreach programs available to help these customers address their barriers, and these programs set Georgia apart from other states.

31. 0:16:39

    We'll review some additional details regarding these programs a little bit later in the presentation. We also provide several self-service options to customers which allow them to access case information easily and quickly. We have a mobile app, a customer portal, an online chat feature, and all of these allow our customers to connect our team and access information about their case no matter where they are. Now, I'll hand it over to Ryan to cover the next slide.

32. 0:17:12

    Thank you. Good morning. So I'm gonna discuss some of the federal impacts that, uh, we've had. Uh, f- first up, we'll start with federal legislation. So we had the Strengthening State and Child, or State and Tribal Child Support Enforcement Act. Uh, this allows state child support agencies the ability to share federal financial participation with its contractors. So what that meant for DCSS was we were able to share FFP with our attorneys and our, uh, county-administered offices so that they could use that for the purposes of establishing, modifying, or enforcing child support.

33. 0:17:48

    Very helpful for us. Uh, second is Ensuring Children Receive Support Act. This is, uh, intended to bolster our passport denial process by allowing the, uh, revocation of a passport. It's still going through Congress. It hasn't passed yet. Uh, for regulatory changes, we have the modification to performance standards. This allowed the Secretary of Health and Human Services the ability to modify performance measures, uh, for State IV-D agencies when there was a natural disaster or calamity.

34. 0:18:23

    So this came about, uh, after COVID to give the Secretary the ability to move the performance standards. Uh, it was helpful for us during Hurricane Helene. And last for the, uh, regulations, we have the employment and training rule. This allows state child support agencies to use federal financial participation, um, to fund employment and training services for non-custodial parents, um, who are eligible.

35. 0:18:54

    As of September, unfortunately, they published a intention to rescind this rule. Uh, so this means that states will no longer be able to do this. We'll have to fund our outreach programs through incentive funds, uh, which puts us at the risk of expending all those funds, which would require a hundred percent state dollars to do that. And to go over some more of our outreach programs, uh, Sarah will present that.

36. 0:19:23

    Thank you, Ryan. So I mentioned outreach programs a little bit earlier in the presentation and, um, wanted to go into a little more detail on those. So first, we'll take a look at our fatherhood program. So this is an employment-based program. Um, it is available to any of our noncustodial parents, including both mothers and fathers. Our fatherhood team works closely with participants to address their needs and to ensure that they have resources to assist them with obtaining and maintaining employment. The program partners with the employer community, the Technical College System of Georgia for short-term training opportunities for participants, and many other key partners.

37. 0:20:03

    Next, our Parental Accountability Court program, or PAC, is a joint effort of the division and superior court judges to offer an alternative to incarceration and to help chronic non-payers of child support make regular payments. The program is currently available in forty-five of the fifty-one judicial circuits. The program uses community resources and judicial oversight to address barriers that keep parents from meeting their support obligations, and each program is tailored to the needs of the local community.

38. 0:20:36

    During state fiscal year twenty-twenty five, we had over sixty-three hundred parents enroll in both the fatherhood and the PAC programs, and these parents paid over five point five million dollars, supporting over twelve thousand children. Each year, the Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement provides ten million dollars in mandatory grant funding to states and territories to operate the Access and Visitation program. This program is designed to increase the noncustodial parents' access to and visitation with their children.

39. 0:21:09

    Georgia uses funding for... from this grant to partner with a network of vendors who provide several services to parents as outlined on the slide. Research has found that financial and emotional supports are interrelated, and data shows that custodial parents with custody or pa- parenting time arrangements are more likely to receive child support. During federal fiscal year twenty-twenty five, almost twenty-five hundred parents were referred to this program. And now I'll hand it back to Ryan to cover the next couple of slides.

40. 0:21:44

    Okay, so s- uh, this shows some of our case types that we work on. So we've got in-state cases, and this is generally where both parents live in the state of Georgia, but Georgia's primarily responsible for doing all the case management. Uh, next, we've got intergovernmental. Uh, this includes interstate and international. Uh, typically with these cases, only one parent lives in Georgia, and we rely on either the, uh, child support agency in another state or country, uh, either to send the case to us or to do the processes for us.

41. 0:22:19

    So for interstate cases, it's broke down to the initiating state. So that's the case that sends the request to another state for enforcement, and then naturally, you've got responding receives that, and they're responsible. The respondent state's responsible for the enforcement or establishment or modification of any child support order. Uh, once the need for the interstate case has been identified, the initiating state has to use, uh, certain document sets to send the case, uh, to the responding state to get that going.

42. 0:22:51

    And we'll explore this process a little further.

43. 0:22:57

    So I had prepared this slide in the thought that we'd be going after the other presentation. Uh, so I'm not gonna go a whole lot into UIFSA two thousand and eight 'cause I expect y'all hear some about that later. Uh, but this is the, the Uniform Interstate Family Support Act of two thousand and eight, and this is what gives us the laws to interact with these other states. Um,

44. 0:23:27

    so I'd like to point out the number of interstate cases that you'll see. This is nationally, seven hundred and forty-two thousand cases for one point four billion dollars, which is significant. So this is nationwide. Um, the initiating state in these interstate cases rely on responding states to take any actions, uh, for the collections, establishment, modifications of the support order. And the respondent state that receives that packet has to process it to the fullest extent, and they also have to treat that case as they would one of their interstate cases.

45. 0:24:04

    So that's the reason that the relationships that we can forge with other child support, um, agencies in other states or other organizations is so important so that we can help make sure that that one point four dollars billion, I'm sorry, billion dollars is distributed properly to children across the country.

46. 0:24:31

    All right, so now that we've, um, heard a little bit at, about things at the national level, wanted to provide you all with some information, um, about things going on here in Georgia related to our child support caseload. So during federal fiscal year twenty-twenty five, we handled over two hundred and eighty-two thousand cases, supporting over three hundred and eighty-nine thousand children. We also collected over six hundred and fifty-nine million dollars in child support collections for families during federal fiscal year twenty-twenty five.

47. 0:25:02

    As of the latest rankings available, Georgia had the tenth highest caseload in the nation, as well as the tenth highest collections. And you can see a heat map on the right side of this slide showing the overall child support caseloads among the states as of federal fiscal year 2024, which is the latest, um, data available on the national level. Those shaded darkest have the highest child support caseloads. Out of our entire caseload, over sixty thousand cases, or approximately twenty-one percent, are cases that we share with another state.

48. 0:25:35

    Of those, approximately seventy-four percent are assigned to our state-run offices, and twenty-six percent of the interstate cases are assigned to the offices where we have a contract with the district attorneys. We also have two hundred and sixty-five cases that we share with another country.

49. 0:25:54

    On this slide, you will see a map of the ten regions where our fifty-five local offices are located. And I also wanted to highlight two specialty offices which provide a great deal of support for our inter- interstate cases. One is our Central Registry Office, which is located in Moultrie, Georgia. Each state is mandated to have a Central Registry Office. Once the need for an interstate case has been identified, the initiating agency completes the required documents and sends the case to the applicable state's Central Registry for processing.

50. 0:26:25

    Central Registry will then review and process the request as needed, including sending it to the appropriate local office for next steps. We also have an Intergovernmental Hub, which is located in Albany, Georgia. As part of their work, the hub manages cases where the custodial parent is here in Georgia and the noncustodial parent is in another state. The hub ensures that the other states establish paternity and child support orders and enforce those orders as needed. On the next slide, we'll take a look at our initiating interstate caseload.

51. 0:26:59

    So while our total caseload is ranked tenth in the nation, for interstate cases, we rank in the top five. For cases where Georgia is the initiating state, and again, that's where the custodial parent and child or chil- children live in Georgia, we rank fifth highest based on federal fiscal year 2024 data. This means we send the fi- the fifth-highest number of cases to states, other states requesting their assistance in establishing and enforcing child support orders. And for 2024, this involved, um, almost thirty thousand cases.

52. 0:27:33

    For comparison, um, a couple of states that have similar caseloads to Georgia are Tennessee and Missouri for total caseload sizes. However, they ranked twelfth and thirteenth for the number of cases that they sent to other states. You can also see a heat map of this data, and again, those states with the darker colors have the highest number of interstate cases sent to other states. On the next slide, we will s- um, take a look at a heat map that shows the cases that we, Georgia, have sent to other states for assistance.

53. 0:28:06

    So our largest initiating in, um, case partner is Florida, as you may have a mention-- you may have imagined since they're our, our neighbor, um, and we have over fifty-one hundred cases in common with Florida. Our smallest initiating partner is Vermont, with whom we share only seventeen cases. On the next slide, we'll take a look at our responding cases. So for cases where Georgia is the responding state, we rank fourth in the nation. And for 2024, this involved over thirty-two thousand responding cases.

54. 0:28:41

    For comparison again, both Tennessee and Missouri ranked eleventh and thirteenth for the number of cases they received from other states. And we also have a heat map of this data, and those states, again, with the darker colors have the highest number of interstate cases received from other states. And next, we'll take a look at cases we share with other countries. So while our-

55. 0:29:03

    Commissioner, just to pause you right there, because I know we have a committee member question, and if it's okay, I'll let committee members ask during that, because I know there's a lot of coverage. Is that all right with you?

56. 0:29:12

    Absolutely.

57. 0:29:13

    All right. Um, Secretary, uh, Cameron.

58. 0:29:16

    Thank you for your testimony. Um, in, uh, subcommittee on appropriations, we had a couple of counties, I believe it was Cab and maybe Cobb came in for some supplemental funding. How are all these agencies s- partially funded, or how exactly does the funding work for these people that you contract with in the various parts of the state?

59. 0:29:38

    So for the-

60. 0:29:40

    Thank you

61. 0:29:41

    ... um, the offices that are managed under the oversight of the district attorney, we have a contract with those offices. Um, so there's eight district attorneys we contract with, and they manage nine of our fifty-five local child support offices. Um, so some of those offices, their contract includes, um... All of them include state and federal funds. Some of the counties also provide a local match, um, which essentially allows them to draw down additional federal funding to support their operations.

62. 0:30:10

    All right. Thank you.

63. 0:30:11

    Sure.

64. 0:30:13

    Thank you, Commissioner.

65. 0:30:14

    Sure, no problem. Um, so again, while our international, um, caseload is much smaller, uh, than our interstate caseload, it still represents an important part of our work. So as mentioned earlier in the presentation, we share two hundred and sixty-five cases with other countries. Germany is our largest international partner, and Canada is the second largest. The Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement is committed to helping states overcome the challenges of electronic international payments to eliminate paper checks.

66. 0:30:47

    The federal office created the Central Authority Payment service, or CAP, which helps state child support agencies send payments electronically to other countries. States use the current automated clearing house, or ACH process, to send payments to CAP, which then forwards them to foreign child support authorities. Several countries, including our largest international partner, Germany, are currently accepting payments through CAP, and the federal office is working with additional countries to educate them on the benefits of the program and encourage them to participate.

67. 0:31:20

    So next, we'll take a look at collections on our intergovernmental caseload.

68. 0:31:27

    So as mentioned earlier, we collected over $659 million for families in federal fiscal year 2025. For cases where Georgia is the initiating state, and again, that's where the custodial parent and children live in Georgia, we have the third-highest incoming collections from other states at over $69 million. For cases where we are responding to other states, we have the fifth-highest collections out of all states with over $65 million sent to other states. And for cases that we share with other countries, we rank seventh-highest for collections sent to other countries with over $748,000.

69. 0:32:07

    So next, I wanted to share some information on resources and training that's available to our DCSS team to help them with managing interstate cases. The Federal Office of Child Support Enforcement operates the Federal Parent Locator Service, which is an invaluable locate and enforcement resource across state lines. It includes two federal databases, the na- the National Directory of New Hires, as well as the Federal Case Registry, and those facilitate interstate case processing.

70. 0:32:38

    The federal office also provides the Federal Child Support Program, which allows states to send and receive vital information concerning child support cases. The portal provides a fast and effective way for our child support team to view real-time data about cases in other states, exchange child support documents and intergovernmental forms electronically in a secure environment other than, rather than sending them through the mail, and we can obtain direct points of contact from other states.

71. 0:33:09

    In addition to the resources that are offered at the federal level, all Georgia, um, agents are able to go through intergovernmental training as part of their formal training process, and this is a requirement. We have an entire intergovernmental module dedicated to this training. We also offer supplemental training on a variety of topics, including intergovernmental case processing through additional sessions such as Knowledge Bites, which are short training opportunities offered periodically throughout the year, as well as self-paced e-learnings, which are on-demand.

72. 0:33:43

    There are also several national child support organizations that offer training and professional development opportunities to our employees, and these organizations offer informative webinars, conferences, and newsletters to share research, best practices, and other updates relevant to child support professionals. Um, and you'll see a few of those listed on the slide. In closing, I wanted to share a couple of success stories involving interstate cases. So these were cases where the custodial parents and children were living in Georgia and the noncustodial parents were living out of state.

73. 0:34:17

    Our Albany Intergovernmental Hub collected over $148,000 on a case that we shared with Texas. Texas had placed a lien on land that the noncustodial parent had inherited, and when he later sold that land, the proceeds were intercepted by the Texas Child Support program and sent to Georgia so that we could disperse the funds to the family. This payment paid the past due arrears off in full, and that case is now closed. On another case, one of our agents in the Intergovernmental Hub, Kenyetta Frazier, worked with the State of Hawaii to collect a lump sum payment of over $38,000 to release a noncustodial parent's passport.

74. 0:34:57

    This payment, again, paid the case off in full and that case is now closed. We have a wonderful team of hardworking professionals who truly care about the work that they do and who strive to make a positive difference in the lives of the families we serve. I am so grateful for the opportunity to serve in this role, and I'm very proud of the work we do here, um, to support children here in Georgia, but also those that live in other states and, and countries. So thank you again so much for your time today, and at this time, we're happy to take any other questions you may have.

75. 0:35:28

    Thank you, Commissioner. I invite if any of the committee has a question, go ahead and, uh, click, uh, your, uh, button. We'll kind of move quickly into the second half of the meeting. If not, um, I do wanna correct, uh ... I, I apologize for the misnaming. Just because your commissioner is, uh, pulling, uh, double duty, uh, Commissioner, uh, Broach, uh, uh, who's done a great job, uh, leading Department of Human Services, there is distinct divisions and I, uh, I was interchanging Children and Families-

76. 0:35:57

    Oh, okay

77. 0:35:57

    ... with Child Support. Uh, and we appreciate the work y'all, uh, do, uh, alongside, uh, your counterparts. Um, with that, I think Chairman Mathiak has a, a, a question.

78. 0:36:11

    Mr. Chair, I'm interested in, um, length of time when a, when a, the parent that's supposed to be paying child support, is there a time limit on collection for if they're not collecting for years and years, and then the other parent figures out where they live, is there a time limit on that?

79. 0:36:36

    So there are, um, several different federal timeframes, um, around our processes. Um, so we have timeframes for how quickly we need to establish an order, locate the parent, enforce that order once it's established. Um, and we'd be happy to share that with the committee if that would be helpful to have a list of those federal timeframes. S-

80. 0:36:56

    So it's federal, not state? I'm sorry, Mr. Chair, can I ask a follow-up? Um, so it's federal, not state?

81. 0:37:03

    So we do have some internal, um, timeframes as well that are actually more strict than the federal, um, timeframes, but, but we do have some, um, required timeframes at the federal level that we have to meet.

82. 0:37:13

    Are you, are you asking about dormancy? Okay. I believe...

83. 0:37:18

    Seven years.

84. 0:37:20

    Seven years is the, the dormancy, but that wouldn't really apply if the case is open and we're trying to enforce it, and we're having a hard time finding someone or serving them to get that in place.

85. 0:37:30

    It's different. But if the case is just sitting out there, uh, I believe it's seven years.

86. 0:37:35

    Okay, so there's-

87. 0:37:36

    Um-

88. 0:37:36

    So it's in years, not necessarily the age of the child. Gotcha.

89. 0:37:44

    Yeah, and if somebody owes child support arrears, um, even once the child becomes emancipated, we still continue to collect on those arrears. We have a number of cases, um, that are open for arrears collection only.

90. 0:37:56

    Gotcha.

91. 0:37:57

    And thank you.

92. 0:37:57

    Thank you.

93. 0:37:57

    Let's take one more question just 'cause we'll, uh, we're ... I don't ... I wanna do respect, um, uh, our friends on Zoom. Uh, but if, if we have time, if I ... Are y'all able to stay for the entire meeting? We'll then go on. Uh, so, uh, I'm just doing it in the order. Uh, uh, Representative Miles?

94. 0:38:18

    Good evening.

95. 0:38:24

    Mm-hmm.

96. 0:38:32

    What is the process of getting that money to the parent that deserves the testimony?

97. 0:38:39

    So in the example you gave, um, did you mention the person is employed?

98. 0:38:42

    The person is em-

99. 0:38:43

    Mm-hmm

100. 0:38:43

     ... you, you, you finally, you've met them and they are employed and you know where they're located. What's the process of getting the testimony?

101. 0:38:48

     So in that case, we would send income, an income withholding order to the employer, um, so that we can collect the payments directly from, um, their, their wages. And so once we receive a child support payment, we are federally required to disperse that out to the family within two business days. Um.

102. 0:39:06

     Mm-hmm.

103. 0:39:07

     So for, uh, you're asking specifically how would they go about paying down that five-year arrearage?

104. 0:39:12

     Yes. I mean, I mean, is, is, is there, um, a timeframe they have to do it or they ... Is it, uh-

105. 0:39:19

     We, we typically, um, we have to look at the entirety of their ability to pay. So it's gonna depend on the job, and try to establish something in addition to current support that will go back each month, uh, to s- kind of pay down those arrears.

106. 0:39:38

     Mm.

107. 0:39:38

     And then after current support is no longer due, they'll typically, like, continue that full amount. So let's say that his child supports, or his or her child support is $100 a month, and we did $15 a month to go back towards the arrears. Once the child ages out, we would still collect at 115 per month. It would just all be going towards the arrears instead of 100 of current support and 15 for the arrears.

108. 0:40:03

     Thank you.

109. 0:40:04

     Yes, sir.

110. 0:40:06

     Awesome. With that, we will move ... Thank you both for the presentation. Extremely informative, and the work y'all do, um, has a meaningful impact to the children in, in our state and out of our state, in ensuring they have the care they need. So we, we greatly appreciate the work y'all lead.

111. 0:40:23

     Thank you.

112. 0:40:23

     Um, and we might have some follow-up questions if y'all are able to stay, of course. Um, with that, we will, um, uh, with a lot of hope, uh, and appreciation to House, uh, Tech, uh, uh, go onto our Zoom, uh, meeting. And with, uh, that we will ask, um, Jenna Bannon, Associate Director of Family and Children, uh, Director of the Chil- Children and Families program at National Conference of State Legislatures. And I do wanna note, uh, we really do appreciate NCSL in helping, uh, uh, gather speakers that are a tool for all, uh, legislators, um, for a lot of different avenues.

113. 0:41:02

     But they have helped, uh, gather these, uh, nationally recognized speakers in this area that we wouldn't otherwise have access to. In addition, uh, Sarah's worked, uh, a great deal with C- uh, uh, Council on State Government, uh, CSG South, who's helped with the, uh, research report that you have, um, in your packet, uh, members. Uh, so that, uh ... Jenna, are you, uh, with us?

114. 0:41:26

     Hello, Chairman.

115. 0:41:29

     Awesome.

116. 0:41:29

     Everyone can hear me all right?

117. 0:41:30

     We see you, we don't hear you. You might be on mute. Oh, wait, and it might be us. Uh, try again.

118. 0:41:37

     Okay. Hi, everyone. Terrific. Thank you for ... Thank you to the committee for inviting us to testify today. My name is Jenna Bannon, and I'm an associate director of the Children and Families program at the National Conference of State Legislatures. As you all know, you all are a member of NCSL, and we are here to work on your behalf through research, testimony like this, trainings, and meetings. Again, thank you for the invitation. Chairman Sainz reached out to us inviting us to testify on interstate agreements governing child support.

119. 0:42:11

     I am not your expert on this topic, but we have invited two national experts who will be presenting to you today. I'll be here to take notes and support any follow-up that may be needed. With that, I'd like to introduce you to Libby Snyder and Meg Haynes. Libby Snyder is Special Counsel at the Uniform Law Commission, where she works on the enactment of uniform acts on a variety of subjects, including family law, emerging technologies, privacy, and occupational licensure.

120. 0:42:42

     Prior to joining the Uniform Law Commission, she practiced administrative law at the Missouri Department of Transportation. She holds a JD from University of Kansas School of Law, and a BA from Creighton University, and is a member of the Missouri Bar. Additionally, Libby is a member of the National Association of Bar Executives board of directors, and serves as the chair, um, of that bar's government relations section council. I'd also like to introduce you to Meg Haynes. She is an attorney with more than 40 years of child support experience in the public, nonprofit, and private sectors.

121. 0:43:15

     From 1990 to 1992, Meg served as the chair of the US Commission on Interstate Child Support. Its report to Congress resulted in major reform in child support laws in 1996. From 1990 to 2008, Meg was an official observer to the Uniform Interstate Family Support Act. drafting committee of the Uniform Law Commissioners and participant in the drafting of it. From 2004 to 2007, she served as a member of the US delegation during negotiation of the 2007 Hague Child Support Convention.

122. 0:43:53

     UIFSA 2008 implements the Hague Child Support Convention in the United States. In 2022, she p- participated in The Hague Special Commission on the implementation of the 2007 Hague Child Support Convention, and she currently co-chairs The Hague Convention Forms Working Group. In short, you have two speakers who have immense depth and breadth on this issue. Um, I really appreciate them joining us today. And with that, I'm going to hand it over to Ms.

123. 0:44:25

     Snyder to speak to you about the Uniform Law Commission and the role of interstate laws. Handing it off to you, Libby. Thank you.

124. 0:44:33

     Thank you. I'm going to go ahead and share my, um, PowerPoint. I hope you're all able to see it. Can you see it?

125. 0:44:41

     We can, and members, uh, just as a reminder, you also have a paper copy thanks to, uh, Sarah, in your folder.

126. 0:44:47

     Wonderful. Uh, well, thank you so much, Jenna. My name is Libby Snyder, and I'm one of the attorneys from the Uniform Law Commission. Um, first, I'm going to talk just a little bit about who we are and what we do. Um, the Uniform Law Commission has been around since 1892, and our goal is to really take areas of, um, state law, state statute, and harmonize it across the states in the areas where it makes sense for all states to have the same state law. Um, you know, we're an organization of volunteer attorneys appointed by their states.

127. 0:45:19

     Um, currently, we have, um, about 350 volunteer attorneys appointed by their state governments to serve as our Uniform Law Commissioners. Um, most of the, uh, commissioners fall within these five buckets. Um, you'll notice that the number doesn't add up to 100%, and that's because some of our commissioners don't neatly fall into any of the categories. Um, each state determines its own mode of appointment, um, for its state ULC commissioners. Uh, almost every state has a statute, um, creating the Uniform Law Commission within the state and appointing commissioners within the state.

128. 0:45:56

     Georgia is actually one of only three states that does not have a statute governing that appointment process, but I believe it's done in your state by the governor, uh, via executive order. Um, the work of our commissioners, so every ULC commissioner is an attorney, um, and they serve as volunteers to represent their state, um, at the ULC's annual meeting each year. They serve y- uh, the state on study committees, drafting committees, and other committees, and then they'll also serve their state by carrying uniform and model acts back to assist the legislatures in consideration.

129. 0:46:31

     Um, something the ULC is very proud of is that all of our work is completely publicly available. Anyone can get involved in anything that we're working on, and in fact, we feel that, you know, the more participation we can get from different, um, participants, stakeholder groups, um, individuals, the better. Um, a- as the chairman mentioned earlier, you know, this is really a, a conversation about federalism, and the ULC views ourselves as a strong federalist organization. Um, we reduce the need for federal preemption due to inconsistent state laws.

130. 0:47:03

     That's really our goal here. So we want to sustain state sovereignty while then still achieving a harmonized interstate legal system, and that harmonization will reduce costs and uncertainty but will still allow for local flexibility and variation, and that's really our, our whole goal here. Um, the ULC has the ability to provide, you know, focused, sustained attention on highly technical areas of the law, like the Uniform Commercial Code, which would otherwise not be available to most state legislatures.

131. 0:47:33

     I mean, I think i- i- if you take the whole Uniform Commercial Code, it's probably over 1,000 pages. It's very complex. That's sort of our bread and butter in what we do. Um, and then also, you know, we have some ULC acts, like the Uniform Partition of Heirs Property Act, and then the act that we're here to discuss today, the Interstate Family Support Act, and both of those are great examples of, uh, cooperative federalism, when the federal government and then the state governments kind of work together to harmonize the law. Um, there's many benefits of uniform acts, but the one I wanna focus on today is that, um, you know, ability to provide reciprocity of rights and remedies between the states and their residents and across state lines.

132. 0:48:13

     So I've pulled out, you know, a couple examples of uniform acts, um, that help highlight that benefit and sort of, uh, without necessarily being interstate compacts, do sort of function in that space. Um, the first one that I wanted to highlight is the Uniform Athlete Agents Act and then the Revised Uniform Athlete Agents Act. Um, I believe Georgia has enacted that, uh, 2000 act, and what that does is, um, anyone who is an athlete agent, and for the purposes of the act, that's an individual who represents, um, student-athletes in, uh, negotiations for, you know, professional sports contracts, um, NIL contracts, for example.

133. 0:48:51

     It would allow those athlete agents to file their application for registration in other states, just cross-file that same application. The goal there in the 2000 act was to reduce burdens by, you know, making them not have to fill out the application over and over again. But what we realized when updating that act in 2015 was, you know, there was still kind of a, a hitch in the system, slowing things down. So in 2015, the act was updated to provide true reciprocal registration provisions, where if you're an athlete agent in one state that has enacted that revised act, um, you can take your application from that state and file it for application in, uh, another state that has that same uniform act, and if you were approved in state A, you'll be approved in state B automatically.

134. 0:49:36

     And the goal there was to really ease regulatory burdens on athlete agents that are operating in multiple states, because it's kind of a high bar of compliance, um, while still providing that protection to college athletes or, and student-athletes, um, and, and, you know, that knowledge to them. The next act I wanted to highlight is one that Georgia has enacted, and it's the Emergency Volunteer Health Practitioners Act. This was drafted by the ULC in the wake of Hurricane Katrina because, uh, we noticed that doctors, nurses, EMTs, coroners, and any sort of volunteer medical professional was having a hard time traveling into states affected by the hurricane to volunteer their services, um, that skilled labor that they have through their, their licenses.

135. 0:50:18

     Um, there is the Emergency Management Assistance Compact, EMAC, which is a very important compact, and I think most, if not all states are members. But EMAC functions, um, within, you know, a certain sphere, which is that, you know, two states have to have a mutual aid agreement to provide services to each other. So the, um, you know, health professionals in one state would have to go through this complicated process of entering into that mutual aid agreement with their home jurisdiction and the other jurisdiction before being deployed to the second state.

136. 0:50:50

     Uh, this uniform act would allow any state government during a declared emergency like Hurricane Katrina to give reciprocity to other states' licensees in these narrow circumstances so that those individuals, those doctors, nurses, EMTs, coroners, could provide their volunteer services during that emergency without needing to go through any sort of licensure process. Um, the last one I wanted to focus on before sort of switching to acts in the family law space is actually a current drafting committee that the ULC has, um, on occupational licenses of service members and military spouses.

137. 0:51:26

     This was a drafting committee that began its work in 2024, and it was tasked with developing a uniform act addressing state law changes needed to implement, um, the ser- uh, Service Members Civil Relief Act as amended in January 2023. Um, the, the intent here is to ease regulatory burdens on service members and military spouses because they're so disproportionately burdened by our state-based occupational licensure system. Um, the final draft of this act will be available for enactment, um, in July 2026.

138. 0:52:00

     So now turning to our, um, family law acts dealing with any sort of interstate enforcement mechanisms. The first one I wanted to highlight is one of the most well-known. Um, it began in 1968 when the ULC drafted the Child Custody Jurisdiction Act, and this was designed to solve a really crucial problem, which was, um, you sometimes had non-custodial parents taking their children across state lines because they wanted to, uh, reverse an unfavorable child custody order. And what the ULC wanted to do with this, um, act from 1968 was to say if one state has already issued a child custody order, that, um, you know, no other state can modify that order so long as that original state retained jurisdiction.

139. 0:52:45

     Um, that was, you know, a really important act at the time. It functioned for a very long time. But then in 1997, the ULC decided to, um, update that act, uh, for two reasons. One, uh, to reconcile the law with the Federal Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act of 1981, which had sort of caused some confusion about the application of the two, and then also to add interstate civil enforcement mechanisms for child custody orders. Um, the way it functions is that, um, a state would have to enforce a child custody or visitation order from another state if that other state's law conforms substantially to the UCCJEA.

140. 0:53:20

     It sounds complicated, but it's actually pretty simple because, uh, the UCCJEA is law in forty-nine states, the District of Columbia, and the US Virgin Islands. Um, Massachusetts is the only state that has not adopted the UCCJEA. Frankly, I don't know why. But, um, they operate under the Federal Parental Kidnapping Prevention Act of 1981 and the UCCJA, um, currently. The last one I wanted to highlight before, uh, turning it over to our discussion of UIFSA is the Child Abduction Prevention Act.

141. 0:53:50

     Um, I wanted to highlight it because it really builds upon and is consistent with that Child Custody Jurisdiction and Enforcement Act I was just talking about. And what it does is it provides tools and guidance for preventing child abductions that occur, you know, usually by parents in connection with a child custody dispute or a child custody order. And this is happening a lot, you know, if there is an ongoing case that has not resulted in a final order where custody of the children is up in the air. You'll sometimes have parental kidnappings in connection with those situations.

142. 0:54:23

     But without a final custody order, uh, judges, courts are sometimes not exactly sure how to handle that. Um, this act recognizes that, you know, child custody deter- determinations and abductions frequently take place across state lines and international lines, so having one law that, um, sort of harmonizes the system there makes it a lot easier to enforce. And I wanted to point it out because this act has been enacted in twenty-one states, um, including all of Georgia's neighbors, Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, North and South Carolina, Mississippi, Louisiana.

143. 0:54:54

     And so it's one where I think, you know, if Georgia was interested, it, it might be a good way to, um, boost the system. And then finally, a little bit about UIFSA before I hand it over to my wonderful co-presenter, Meg Haines. Um, in 1950, the ULC drafted the first of many uniform acts dealing with cases, um, involving, you know, establishment, enforcement, modification of orders for any duty of support across state lines. The first was called the Uniform Reciprocal Enforcement of Support Act, or URESA, uh, first drafted in 1950 and amended by the ULC in 1952, '58, and '68.

144. 0:55:29

     And then in 1992, um, the ULC published the first version of the Uniform Interstate Family Support Act, or UIFSA, um, which served as a complete replacement for that prior act. And it was amended by the ULC in 1996, '01, and '08. Um, I'm gonna leave it up to my wonderful co-presenter to, to get into the nitty-gritty of the act, but before I turn it over, um, just wanted to highlight that the ULC's website has lots of information about how, uh, we function, all of our current drafting committees, any information about uniform acts that we have, including, you know, where they've been enacted, where they've been introduced, the text of the acts, how to get involved if you're interested.

145. 0:56:08

     So I, you know, encourage you to check it out and let me know if you have any questions. And with that, I'll turn it over to Meg.

146. 0:56:15

     Thanks, Libby. Um, thank you for the invitation. I'm from Newnan, Georgia, so it's always nice to have a connection to Georgia again, even if it's just virtual. Um, Libby talked a little bit about the development of UIFSA. I just wanted to give just a little bit more context. She mentioned that interstate child support laws have been around since the 1950s, um, and she mentioned the prior interstate act called URISA. We, we have wonderful acronyms in the child support sphere.

147. 0:56:46

     Um, there was no federal mandate that states enact this prior act, and as she mentioned, there were lots of different versions of it. So you had states enacting different versions of this prior act. It was one of those uniform acts that really was not uniform. One of the biggest problems with this prior act was that the result could be all these, um, conflicting support orders around the country. If a custodial parent had a child support order from Georgia under this prior act, if the obligor moved to a different state and the Georgia custodial parent asked, let's say, South Carolina to enforce her Georgia support order, South Carolina could decide to issue its brand-new order.

148. 0:57:31

     And so you had, every time somebody moved, you had a different support order and a different amount. It was very confusing for the parents, confusing for courts. In the 1990s, Congress established a federal Interstate Child Support Commission. That's the one I chaired, and we were supposed to recommend improvements to Congress in the area of interstate child support enforcement. One of our recommendations was that, you know, we scrap this prior act and draft a new, um, Interstate Child Support Act, and that's, um, how UIFSA got developed.

149. 0:58:08

     Um, as, uh, Libby mentioned, that particular act has been amended several times also. But unlike the prior act, there is a federal law that required states, as a condition of getting federal funding for their child support program, use that carrot stick approach, um, that you had to enact UIFSA two thousand and eight. Um, and so in Georgia, you have enacted it at Title 19, Chapter 11.

150. 0:58:39

     There is no federal requirement that tribes enact UIFSA, and that's because of tribal sovereignty, but tribes are subject to a federal law that's almost, um, verbatim with UIFSA. And UIFSA applies to all child support cases where the, um, parties live in different jurisdictions. A, a parent can proceed pro se, um, without having an attorney. Um, they can proceed with a private attorney, or they can go through the child support agency and use UIFSA, um, through the child support agency.

151. 0:59:18

     So next slide, Libby. As I said, the prior act, um, one of the problems was all these multiple conflicting orders out there. So the main goal when they were drafting UIFSA was to have one controlling order for current support. And they did that in a couple of ways. Um, if there's no valid support order, then UIFSA allows for the establishment of a new order. But if there is a valid support order, you can't establish a new order.

152. 0:59:50

     You either have to enforce the existing order, or you can modify that existing order, and you have to follow UIFSA rules. Next slide.

153. 1:00:03

     Even though UIFSA is an interstate act, it does have provisions that allow a Georgia petitioner to keep the case within Georgia, and these are called one-state proceedings. In the establishment arena, if there's a Georgia custodial parent, um, that person can file a support action in Georgia against a non-resident if that non-resident has sufficient contacts with Georgia to satisfy due process.

154. 1:00:35

     And it's called long-arm jurisdiction because, you know, you're basically serving the person in the other state, but having them participate in the Georgia proceeding. The advantages of that is that, you know, it's Georgia law that's gonna apply Georgia's child support guidelines. And UIFSA lists seven examples of contacts that would give Georgia jurisdiction over a non-resident. If there isn't long-arm jurisdiction because the person doesn't have any contacts with Georgia, the Georgia custodial parent can file a petition asking another state to establish a child support order.

155. 1:01:13

     And that's what, um, the prior, um, participants were talking about initiating and responding jurisdictions. That would be when you're having two states involved. So if the Georgia custodial parent is asking another state to establish a support order, it's gonna be that other state's laws that apply. Next slide. Shifting to enforcement, um, as-- let's assume we have a Georgia support order. That's gonna be the order that controls current support, even if everybody has left Georgia.

156. 1:01:47

     And UIFSA provides two ways to enforce that order. You can send the order directly to the obligor's employer and ask that employer to withhold child support from their wages. That's called direct income withholding. And the employer has to honor it, even if they don't do business in Georgia. The other way for enforcement, if the obligor has bank account or real estate or some other income or assets in another state you can ask, um, the other state to register the Georgia order for enforcement, and then they will use their procedures to enforce that order.

157. 1:02:28

     So that when, um, Sarah was giving the example of, um, the enforcement that another state did, um, for a Georgia order for, through a lien, that was through this two-state UIFSA process where you register the Georgia order in that other state, and then they were able to use their enforcement mechanism to enforce it. Next slide.

158. 1:02:55

     Over the life of a child, um, circumstances often change, so any party can seek modification of that controlling order. But UIFSA is very clear about where a party can seek modification, and it's based on where the parties are living at the time of the modification request. So let's assume that Georgia issued a support order and one of the parties wants to change it. Georgia has exclusive jurisdiction to modify its order so long as a party or child resides in Georgia.

159. 1:03:33

     So, um, let's say the party's married in Georgia, divorced in Georgia, there's a Georgia support order. Custodial parent moves to Florida and the non-custodial parent stays in Georgia. Whichever parent wants to modify the order, that proceeding has to be done in Georgia, because as long as one of the parties, in this scenario it was the non-custodial parent, as long as somebody's still living in Georgia, Georgia has exclusive jurisdiction to modify the order. If everybody moves away, then Georgia no longer has exclusive modification jurisdiction, and under the rules of UIFSA, whoever wants to modify the order has to register that Georgia order in the other party's state.

160. 1:04:18

     Um, it's, it's so, it's called the play away. Um, so if the custodial parent wants to modify the Georgia order, that parent has to register it for modification where the non-custodial parent lives and vice versa. Okay, next slide.

161. 1:04:36

     Two other key principles in UIFSA. Uh, one is that visitation is not a defense to non-payment of support, and in a UIFSA child support proceeding, neither party can bring up visitation or custody issues. That would come into play under that other uniform act that Libby talked about. UIFSA also has special rules to make sure that the court has the information it needs from the out-of-state party. So, um, you can have telephonic hearings, you can submit, um, testimony through faxed documents or electronic document exchange.

162. 1:05:13

     Next slide, Libby. And then finally, um, UIFSA applies not only to interstate cases, but also international cases. UIFSA has a definition of foreign country that includes most but not all foreign nations. So you can use this uniform act if the case is from a country with which the federal government has established a, a reciprocal arrangement. That would be Switzerland, Australia, Israel, El Salvador, and, um, certain Canadian provinces.

163. 1:05:50

     You can use UIFSA, um, with a case from a country where Georgia has established a reciprocal arrangement, because states can also establish reciprocal arrangements with other countries. And then you can use UIFSA, um, if the country has ratified the Hague Child Support Convention. And that's really how, um, the final change to UIFSA, UIFSA 2008, came about, because the United States wanted to ratify this convention. We had to make some changes in laws to do that.

164. 1:06:23

     We decided the best vehicle was, um, through UIFSA. Um, UIFSA 2008 was, um, done, and the federal law required every state to enact UIFSA 2008 verbatim, and that way the US, um, could ratify the convention. There are about, uh, 55 countries, give or take, that have ratified the, um, Hague Child Support Convention. So that's a, a, a whirlwind take you through, um, UIFSA, and I know Libby and I are happy to answer any questions you might have.

165. 1:07:00

     All right. We do appreciate that deep dive and, uh, definitely f- I personally found it very info- informative, and I know multiple committee members did as well. Um, at this time, are there any committee questions, um, for either, uh, online presenters or in person? Chairman Mathiak, I believe.

166. 1:07:20

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, ladies. Very informative. Um, it's, it, it's good to have these tools in our toolbox, and I sure appreciate you being here today. Thank you.

167. 1:07:39

     Representative Jones, I know y- uh, I believe you had a question earlier. I d- I don't wanna ... D- do you wanna waive or still have it? Awesome. Of course.

168. 1:07:49

     Folks, thank you so much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, the question that I had was in re- in reference to, um, child support when it comes to fathers' rights. Um, I have a particular constituent who has, um, uh, a major issue, and they seem to can't get any h- headway. So the mother is an attorney, um, but she's saying that she only makes $15,000 a year, but she has a home, children are, are in private school And, um, the father, um, he was at ninety and they stuck it to him in the amount that he had to pay in child support, but has, um, lots of clues that that income was not-- of the mother was not, um, fully disclosed properly.

169. 1:08:40

     And they want, they, they wanna know what they need to do, but the mother is in Florida, and they are here in, in Georgia. And, um, last year the father recently lost their, their job, so they're no longer making the ninety thousand dollars anymore, but they, but he's still having to figure out how to make, um, those, those payments. I just would like to give them some type of response on what they can do because I think a lot of time the f- the, the rights of, of the father kinda get missed in this sometimes.

170. 1:09:18

     And so I just would like to be able to support that person. Thank you so much.

171. 1:09:23

     Let the commissioner come up, but it, um, uh, I know we have a lot of, uh, uh, maybe a detailed response and if anyone on the virtual, uh, uh, our specialist, uh, would like to kinda supplement that with what typically happens, uh, more than welcome to. Commissioner.

172. 1:09:41

     So we-- Oh, sorry.

173. 1:09:45

     And you can lower that laptop if you want-

174. 1:09:47

     Oh

175. 1:09:47

     ... to make it easier.

176. 1:09:48

     There we go. So we do have, um, a review and modification process that's available to parents if their order is at least three years old or if there's been a substantial change in their circumstances. Um, and so there's some specific criteria around that. Um, we'd be happy to take the information, um, if you have contact information for the customer and look into it. Um, did you have anything else other than the modification process? Well, I mentioned our outreach programs earlier, so I'm not sure if that's something they would be interested in.

177. 1:10:19

     But if so, we would definitely, um, wanna talk to them about our outreach programs if they are, um, you know, currently unemployed or underemployed and, and wanting, um, some assistance with getting, um, employment that's closer to what they were making. We can certainly talk to them about that and see if there's something we can do to assist them as well there.

178. 1:10:45

     Yeah, I can speak to it. So typically with a modification, uh, and you know, it's case by case, but, uh, there's like a three-year wait. Uh, but for cases like that where there's a request for a more frequent review, naturally a loss of income would fit that. Uh, some of the criteria is there has to be at least a twenty-five dollar change in the amount or fifteen percent.

179. 1:11:16

     Absolutely. Sure.

180. 1:11:17

     All right. Um, with that, is there... I, I know we are, uh, close to, uh, uh, lunch hour, um, so I, I, I don't wanna delay any members or any, uh, of our presenters. Um, any other questions? I don't believe there are. We do deeply appreciate the time that, um, that, uh, y'all have, uh, taken up as, uh, in person and on Zoom, uh, for an incredibly informative, uh, discussion. Uh, Secretary Cameron mentioned that, um, uh, my interest, uh, spurred in, in, uh, my for-former, uh, um, service in the Health and Human Service Appropriations where that has been a, uh, uh, this has been highlighted for a couple years.

181. 1:12:01

     Um, so we appreciate the deep dive. Again, uh, committee members, if you have any, uh, questions on this, follow-up items, or, um, focus on another, uh, compact, uh, we're more than, uh, willing to, uh, uh, take, uh, some questions. Wanna appreciate and introduce, um, Sarah to the committee. Um, uh, Sarah has, uh, started with us as of this year and is our, uh, Budget and Policy Analyst. Sarah McCoy, um, did a great job in aligning all the speakers, uh, for this, uh, House Budget and Research.

182. 1:12:35

     Uh, the, the budget's been the highlight the last couple of months. Um, the research element is incredibly in- informative, so thank you, Sarah, for, for supporting us. Um, I think there's a mileage log for those who, uh, since it's a committee work day, if you've gone home and are coming back, uh, just make sure to sign that on, and we appreciate it, and we'll break for lunch. Thanks everyone for coming. And I also wanna thank, uh, uh, uh, Department of Community Supervision, uh, Deputy, uh, Assistant Chief, uh, Locklear. Locklear? Saying that correctly.

183. 1:13:05

     A constituent of mine in Woodbine who came and, and her son Joshua, who's a football, uh, star in, uh, Swanee, who's using some of his spring break to shadow the legislature. So hopefully we haven't dissuaded him too much from the legislative process. You guys have a great day.

184. 1:13:22

     Thank you.

185. 1:13:23

     Thank you, guys.

186. 1:13:24

     Thank

187. 1:13:31

     you.