Senate Finance Committee, March 11, 2026 Video: https://vimeo.com/1172560865 (a timestamp t plays at https://vimeo.com/1172560865#t=s) Page: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-03-11/senate-finance This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays. [0:11:24] It is, uh, 5:00 o'clock. We are one short of a quorum, but I think there's several people on the way. I know we have three members that, that won't be here as well. [0:11:38] All right, we'll- we'll go ahead and get going. Uh, Senator Halpern, uh, if you'd lead us in the invocation. Are you number 10? [0:11:46] Dear Lord, we thank you for another day to be here doing the work of the people of the state of Georgia. Though the hour is getting late, we are glad to gather and take up business that will help to move this state forward. We thank you for your discernment, your grace, your mercy. In all these things we pray, amen. [0:12:06] All right. Apologize for the late hour. Somehow a, uh, freshman senator, Chairman Echols, somehow took my spot for an appropriations meeting today and bumped me back, so, um, we'll have to go with this. Uh, Representative Gambill is back again. [0:12:31] If you wanna come up and present the bill. I see you've got Calvin from the governor's office with you, so, uh- [0:12:37] Calvin Sorby here. Um, thank you, Chairman. It's good to be back with you. This will be the last time, uh, hopefully I have to come, uh, back in here to ask something. But, um, I have the Farmers Bridge Assistance Program, uh, legislation House Bill 1159, which is LC 59-0350 ECS. And, um, just simply what this is, on, uh, December the 8th, 2025, President Trump and the United States Department of Ag announced a $12 billion in one-time bridge payments to American farmers in response to temporary trade market disruptions, high input costs, and increased production costs that affect our farmers every day. [0:13:24] And so, um, as y'all know, agriculture is the number one industry in our state. Um, and so it's something that we all care deeply about. Um, their business can be affected on an ongoing basis by all types of factors. And, um- [0:13:41] Yeah [0:13:41] ... we've seen that even here recently just with, uh, fuel and fertilizer costs increases. And I talked to Danny O'Steen about that just a few days ago. So, um, these federal bridge payments are intended to, in part, to aid farmers until investments from the One Big Beautiful Bill Act reach eligible farmers on October 1st of this year. Some disruptions farmers are facing include reference prices which are set to increase between 10 to 21% for major covered commodities such as soybeans, corn, and wheat. [0:14:15] Of the $12 billion that's provided, up to $11 billion will be used for the Farmer Bridge Assistance Program, which provides broad relief to the United States row crop farmers. This legislation would provide those farmers a state income tax deduction equal to any payment received as income through the FBA program. This is ex- exactly similar to last year's Hurricane Helene relief package, SB 203- 3, that y'all remember, which exempted federal disaster relief payments from state income tax. [0:14:50] This legislation ensures that farmers receive the full amount of these funds and can use them for their intended purpose. And I would update that, uh, as we were working on this initially, uh, about two weeks ago, the US Department of Ag announced information on the final $1 billion that was earmarked for specialty crops. Language has been included in this legislation to make sure that money distributed by the newly created Assistance for Specialty Crop Farmers program is also tax-deductible for our farmers. [0:15:24] And so when that happened, we realized that the deadline in the current version, uh, could potentially cause complications if the money is not disbursed in a timely manner. And so to remedy that, we decided to make it contingent on the deadline to farmers, uh, that had to apply for the payments through the Farmers Bridge Assistance Program December 19th, 2025, and the Assistance for Specialty Crop Farmers Program March 13, 2026. So that is the bill, uh, that you have in front of you. [0:15:57] And, you know, simply, again, is to provide that tax relief for farmers in our state, uh, as it relates to the Farmers Bridge Assistance Program. [0:16:05] So I think you answered one of the questions I had. Uh, you said 12 billion, I had 11 billion, but then there was this additional billion you're saying was added on. So- [0:16:14] That's correct [0:16:14] ... um, our fiscal note was, um, 9.7 million for this, uh, program. Um, I guess if the money wasn't there, we wouldn't get it anyway, would be one argument. But, um, you're- you're trying to not tax the- the grants they've got for, um, for our row crop farmers. Um, Senator Watson is probably waiting on his check right now, you know, so. [0:16:46] Um- [0:16:47] Yeah. [0:16:48] Any questions from the committee? [0:16:53] All right. If there's no questions, we can take a motion on this. [0:16:56] Do pass. [0:16:58] Got a motion to pass. Is there a second? Second from, uh, Senator Hodges. Any other discussion from anybody? All in favor, raise your hand. All right, looks like it's unanimous. You have gotten off easier in this committee. You know, all these people that complain about this committee in the House need to go over there and say, "I don't know what y'all are talking about." [0:17:18] Well, I do, and I appreciate it. Thank y'all for your support and, uh, for helping our farmers. [0:17:23] Well, thanks for bringing good bills. Who's your Senate sponsor? [0:17:25] That will be, uh, Bo, Bo Hatchett. [0:17:27] Again? [0:17:28] Yeah. Yeah, we've been working him. [0:17:29] All right. [0:17:30] No matter what [0:17:30] ... been working him. [0:17:31] Yeah. [0:17:32] He's in for the money. [0:17:33] Yeah. All right, we've got, uh, House Bill 519, Representative Stephens. Floor is yours. [0:17:49] Thank you, Chairman, members of the committee. [0:17:51] Yeah. [0:17:51] House Bill 519 seeks to help these folks that are on welfare. Uh, it gets these folks off welfare and back to work. They're basically your unemployable folks that, um, uh, could be a disabled veteran, uh, in that classification. Um, this, if you'll check on line... This is, this tax credit is for the employer that takes a chance on these employees that are, again, basically unemployable in any other way. [0:18:23] They have to qualify for TANF, SNAP, Sos- um, SSI or vocational rehab. If you'll check on line 26, the amount of the credit shall not exceed $500 per eligible person. Um, the credit is limited to 10 million per year in the bill, and it expires December 31st of 2030. Mr. Chairman, simply that is the, um... And of course, let me point out also that a large number of veterans, uh, would be part of this. [0:18:57] There's about 4,600 of them in, um, in the, in the country. Georgia ranks number two nationwide in those folks that are, uh, that would qualify as disabled veterans for this benefit. We have two letters from the, um, Georgia Utility Contractors Association that of course supports the bill. Uh, but my focus is on these disabled veterans, to give them an opportunity to work, and, um, should save them an average of $17,700 per person on benefits they are currently receiving from the go- from the, from the government. [0:19:36] So, so, uh, the, but the veterans don't actually get the money. It goes to the employer, does it? [0:19:42] It's, it's for the employer to take the chance on these folks to- [0:19:45] And they, um, they get to, if I remember right on the federal program, it's 2,400, uh, 9,600. Does that sound right? [0:19:52] Yes, sir. [0:19:53] That they max out on. Well, it's 40% of their wages, but 2,400 to 9,600, and then we're putting another, uh, 500- [0:20:02] Up to [0:20:02] ... in there to the employer. Do we have any kind of data that says that 500's make them more likely to hire somebody or... I didn't know if we had anything. Senator Albers, you had a question? [0:20:15] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Chairman Stephens, thank you so much for everything you continue to do. Uh, my understanding the, with the ROI in this being strong, that is once they are back to work, then they themselves are paying income taxes, they're buying things, sales taxes. So there's a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy here of, of investing, uh, short-term is getting a, a bigger long-term investment. I know that, uh, this committee's really been working on return on investment on all the tax credits. So, um, I certainly see the connection here. Is that, is that your intention? [0:20:45] 100%. Um, and of course, again, it, the incentive is back, as the chairman said, for the employer to, um, to take a chance on these folks. [0:20:54] Thank you. [0:20:55] All right, and then this has a 10 million cap on it, because that's the, stated in the legislation. Senator Harbin. [0:21:03] Thank you, sir. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. Uh, thank you for bringing this bill. Uh, un- you used the term unemployable, which is not, I don't see a definition or anything, but how do you define that or is there a definition for that? I was curious. [0:21:17] Yes, sir. It's in the- [0:21:18] Okay [0:21:18] ... in the federal code, um- [0:21:19] Okay [0:21:20] ... under Section 51 of the Internal Revenue Code. [0:21:22] Okay. [0:21:23] There's 10 qualifications or 10 folks that fall into that category. Um, and I only used the disabled veteran because they're the ones at, at the top. [0:21:32] Okay. [0:21:32] There are several other folks that, um, that are employable, but typically not, uh, at the front of the line, if you will, for the employer. This gives an extra incentive for the employer. [0:21:43] So you're using the federal sta- the federal definition as- [0:21:47] Yes [0:21:47] ... the, what's here rather than here. Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it. [0:21:51] Senator Tillery. [0:21:52] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Chairman, um, Stephens. Is there a length of time that someone has to be employed for the employer to be able to receive this credit? [0:22:05] Yes, sir. It, well, there's a, there's a 400-hour, um, uh, requirement for the employee to be eligible, uh, according to the federal statute under that- [0:22:15] So they've gotta work 10 weeks before the employer would be eligible. [0:22:19] Right. [0:22:26] All right. Any other questions anybody has? [0:22:30] And this has got the sunset of 2030, right? [0:22:33] Yeah. I'll go to you or see my period. Okay. [0:22:38] Just to confirm, uh, uh, Chairman, that this sunsets on December 31st, 2030? [0:22:44] Yep. [0:22:44] That's what I'm seeing on line 55? Okay. [0:22:46] Yes, sir. [0:22:52] All right. Um- [0:22:56] Committee think you have enough information on this? You wanna study it further? Any questions from anybody? [0:23:05] If not, we, I guess, entertain a motion if you want to. [0:23:11] Motion. [0:23:12] Motion by Senator Hickman. Second Senator Harbin. All in favor, raise your hand. Um, opposed. Did everybody vote? You didn't vote? [0:23:29] You abstain. [0:23:30] It's like you, but I don't know where this one's from. I'll let them pass it. I may change my vote on this one. [0:23:36] All right. [0:23:38] Make a stand on this. I'll talk to you later. [0:23:40] All right, so, um, we've got- [0:23:43] One second. [0:23:44] I would guess that would be six to, to two. Um, do you have a Senate sponsor? [0:23:50] Not at this point. [0:23:51] Okay. [0:23:52] I'll- [0:23:53] Let us, uh, let us know who your Senate sponsor's gonna be on this [0:23:57] ... today. I will. [0:24:00] All right, thanks a lot. [0:24:01] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:24:06] Representative Hagan, you wanna come up? [0:24:10] $500 won't move them on. $500 won't move them. Thank you. [0:24:17] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:24:18] Go ahead. The floor is yours. [0:24:20] I have House Bill 1070. And by the way, this is Ron Pitty here with Mickelson and Company that'll help answer questions that I am not able to answer. [0:24:29] Okay. [0:24:30] So, um, the railroad track maintenance tax credit was enacted in 2018 to help our Class 3 short line railroads with their high maintenance costs. Currently, those costs average $20,000 per mile annually for existing track, and it costs about $3 million per mile of track to construct new rail. These short line railroads serve many parts of the state and connect communities, industry, timber producers, and more to the larger Class 1 rail and to our growing ports. [0:25:06] This bill extends the tax credit sunset for five years, and it increases the credit cap per track mile from 3,500 to $5,000 per mile to reflect increa- increased maintenance costs. That's the bill. [0:25:20] So you're wanting to go from 3,500 a mile to 5,000 a mile, and you wanna extend the sunset five years. [0:25:27] That's right. [0:25:28] Um, is there any, uh... Well, I guess I'll let the people testify that wanna testify, and I can save questions. Any questions from the committee right now? We got a few people that wanna testify. Senator Albers? [0:25:41] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, always great to see you, Representative. We actually had a conversation earlier in my office. Uh, one of the concerns that I have is this is not one of the credits that has been measured up to this point. Back several years ago, we passed Senate Bill 6, uh, in order to measure the effectiveness and the return on investment. Uh, and to my knowledge, we don't have anything from the state that shows that from the state auditor of whether this is a positive or negative ROI. Is that accurate? [0:26:08] I'm not sure about that study. The numbers I have do show that for a direct ROI, there's 10 to $22, um, generated to the state for every $1 of the credit. [0:26:19] That's from the folks that are using the credit though, right? [0:26:23] Mm. [0:26:23] Okay. [0:26:23] Probably. [0:26:24] Yeah, no, we appreciate that. We, we like to have the auditors- [0:26:26] I, I think Mr. Pitty- [0:26:27] ... do that stuff [0:26:27] ... could answer that better than I could. [0:26:29] All right. Senator Tillery? [0:26:31] No, sir. [0:26:32] Oh, no, that's Senator Gooch. [0:26:33] My... Uh, I have a question, but before I do, I'd like to just respond to what Senator Albers said. The auditors work for us. They don't work for the railroad. So if we haven't audited this thing for eight years, then that's our fault. But, uh, we should ask them to do that this year. But, uh, what did, what did you say the cost per mile was to rehabilitate the tracks? [0:26:53] The cost per mile, it's an average of $20,000 per track mile to, for maintenance. [0:26:58] Right. [0:26:59] And about $3 million per mile to construct new- [0:27:02] Gotcha [0:27:02] ... track. [0:27:03] Thank you. [0:27:05] Mm-hmm. [0:27:05] All right. Uh, Senator, is that Hickman? [0:27:08] Yeah. [0:27:09] Thank you, sir. Thank you all for being here. Define short line operation. [0:27:15] Mr. Chairman, Senator, it's, uh... A short line railroad's defined by revenue classification. So you have Class 1 railroads that are a billion dollars in revenue and up. You got Class 2 and Class 3 railroads are smaller railroads. I think this bill only applies to Class 3 railroads. I think the revenue distinction's, um, $70 million in revenue and below. But by nature, it refers to the railroads that have had the branch lines that are going out to the rural areas, connecting with customers, providing first mile, last mile of service. [0:27:46] That's where the short line comes from. [0:27:48] Just kinda running between towns. Is that basically what- [0:27:51] Correct, sir. [0:27:51] Okay. [0:27:51] If you kinda think of the Class 1 railroads are sorta like the interstate highway system of rail. They can go south, east, west. They move lots of heavy commodities really fast. The short line railroads are kinda like your state and county highways going out to the rural areas and gathering grain, lumber, aggregates, all kinds of different commodities, and handing them off to the Class 1s at the, at the interstate, so to speak. [0:28:12] Good. Thank you, sir. All right. Do you have [0:28:15] What I'm fixin' to... [0:28:18] Percentage of the short line railroads are owned by the state mileage-wise? [0:28:22] Uh, Senator, I think that we might have someone behind me that could answer that better than I could. I don't- [0:28:27] A majority or...? [0:28:28] I... You know, is it 40%, maybe? 500 miles? Okay, so 500 miles out of a total of 1,600 track miles, so- [0:28:38] A third. We just funded another $8.3 million in short line railroad improvements. Our typical average is about 20 million a year. Now we're gonna give a tax credit for other people to improve them. I guess what my question would be, would you rather have the general fund allocation or the tax credit? [0:28:59] Senator, my understanding is that that st- that money that's appropriate, it goes to state-owned railroads, but I don't, I don't know that for certain. I think- [0:29:05] Mm [0:29:06] ... the benefit of this program is it's available to all short lines across the state, regardless of size, regardless of kind of their ability to apply for the money. It's not a handout. The railroads have to spend the money first, and it's capped by however many track miles they own or lease. It's 20,000 a mile a year to maintain track. If you're gonna build new rail infrastructure to connect with a port or a customer, et cetera, 3 million bucks a mile. This tax credit provides all the short lines in the state with the abi- ability to prioritize and budget and make investments based on the needs and demands of their customers. [0:29:40] Yeah. [0:29:40] And it's worked very, very well. [0:29:42] And then when we do it, we get to share in the profit of that railroad too, right? [0:29:47] I, I'm sorry, could you re- explain that question? [0:29:49] I think the answer is no, but I was waiting to... I saw some heads back there shake yes really quickly. But that, that's what I'm saying. If we're, we're incentivizing on the state lines that we own and then we lease those out, we are giving a credit for improvements to your lines. We're building our roads on our other side. I, I'm just wondering at what point in time does the taxpayer win on this one? So that's, that's my question. [0:30:10] I think the, Senator, I think the taxpayer wins because you've got an infrastructure, rail- railroad infrastructure that's in place. If you look at the Georgia Freight Rail plan, it's gonna show you long-term freight rail funding needs, several hundred million dollars, you know, out into the future. Um, this benefits the state because there's a tremendous public benefit by having infrastructure in place that's safe, reliable, and it's robust so that these businesses that are served by the railroads can get their product to market. There's also a pretty good success story attached to this tax credit on various short lines making reha- rehabilitation, maintenance, improvement that bolsters the line and then positions the railroads and the communities they serve to attract new businesses. [0:30:52] And I think some other folks will probably come up behind and sh- talk about some pretty significant examples that have happened across the state, but it's... The, the cost to maintain the track is, is an annual thing. What's- [0:31:04] Right [0:31:05] ... accounted- [0:31:05] That, that every business builds into its base and charges its client. So do we see a, a lesser charge? Does Georgia see lesser charges for moving freight per mile than we're seeing in Alabama or Tennessee or somewhere else? [0:31:19] Senator, I'm not a railroad ops expert to be able to answer that. [0:31:22] I understand that- [0:31:23] But- [0:31:23] ... but you are bringing a tax credit. That's why I'm asking. [0:31:25] Say that again. [0:31:26] But you are bringing us a, a requested tax credit. That's why I'm asking. I'm saying, what are the, what's the benefit to the end user of us doing this that other states aren't doing it and they receive? [0:31:36] Well, benefit to the end user is having infrastructure that's in place that's safe, reliable, and efficient, and can get product from end to end in a safe, efficient manner. The, the public benefit to the state is also that if you've got good rail infrastructure, you also can ship some of the heavy commodities that are moving to rail. It takes off some of the pavement damage that's happening on an annual basis, and it also makes the state just competitive from an economic development perspective. When Georgia passed the, the tax credit back in 2018, it was the third state in the US to have a program. [0:32:08] There have been 10 other states that have passed similar level programs, and probably more to come. And so I think if you look at the investment that's taken place, prior to 2018, there was $18 million worth of short line rail infrastructure investment. 2025, it was north of $30 million. I think there's a pretty strong but-for case and that this credit's working and the infrastructure is being- [0:32:30] Give me those numbers again. Pre- pre-2018 was what? [0:32:33] Pre-2018, the total short line investment in Georgia was around $18 million. [0:32:39] Total. You're talking about the state's investment and your private- [0:32:41] This is private [0:32:42] ... company's investment? [0:32:42] This is private company investment. [0:32:43] Private company. 18, and now it is? [0:32:45] Net of, net of any type of state investment. [0:32:47] And then now it is? [0:32:48] I th- we're finalizing 2025 figures. I know it's north of $30 million. [0:32:52] Now what's the value of the credit? [0:32:54] The value of the credit is a 50% credit capped at $3,500 a track mile. [0:33:00] Okay. [0:33:00] So if I have 100 miles of track, I potentially have a $350,000 tax credit, provided that I spend 700,000 or more on track maintenance. [0:33:12] I, I think you're hearing my point is, uh, if it, if we're not inclu- if we're not forcing the, the rates are lower for Georgians because we've done this for Georgia businesses, and we're not doing something else that benefits Georgians directly, I have a hard time, no offense to, to you or the others who are supporting this, that all I'm doing is underwriting the bottom line of the short line railroad if I don't see a benefit to the Georgia companies that they have a lesser freight than the 13 states that didn't do this credit. And that's kind of where I'm coming in, especially when Georgia's got its own lines and our average appropriation is 20 million a year, and we're this year up 8, $8.3 million. [0:33:50] So that's, that's why I have a, just a hard time understanding how this works to benefit all of Georgia, but I appreciate your comments. [0:33:58] Well, I would- [0:33:59] Yeah, thank you [0:33:59] ... add that i- if I may, Mr. Chairman, that it benefits Georgians in rural communities because their communities rely on this rail to, for them to be able to grow. A lot of these communities are looking to attract industry, and that industry making the decision to come to these communities in rural Georgia depends on access to high-quality, reliable rail. And so it is very important. Our Senator Tillery, uh, Fit- [0:34:29] Thank you [0:34:30] ... Fitzgerald, Georgia. Senator Tillery. Well, I, you know- [0:34:35] That's perfect [0:34:37] ... I- [0:34:37] I got you on now if you want. [0:34:39] That's fine. That, that's what I'm getting at, this point. We own this line. So thank you. [0:34:45] All right. We're gonna have several more, but we got some people that want to testify, so let's try to make it quick. Um, Senator Hodges, I think you got a question. [0:34:53] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just one quick question. Senator Tillery refers to the money that we've appropriated to, to maintain state lines. To what extent do short- does these 28 companies, short line railroads, use state lines? [0:35:11] Senator, I, I think the gentleman in the back said it's 500 miles of the total 1,620 track miles in the state, state owned lines. [0:35:21] So about a third. [0:35:22] Yeah, roughly. [0:35:24] All right, Senator Halpern, and then we're gonna go to testimony. Okay. Oh, was that to you, Senator Harbin? [0:35:33] In looking at the, um, auditor's report, it shows a decrease in revenues, 2.5 and then 6.1. What is the increase is almost three times. I'm looking at this, um, estimated state revenue effect on table one, and what causes it to go three times from '27 to '28? I'm just curious in that respect. But there, there seems to be, there ought to be something that's causing it to happen if you look to that. Um, this is the, uh, letter from the auditor's- [0:36:05] And I thought the first year might be because of the fiscal year with it coming in only having six months, but after that, I don't know the difference. [0:36:11] Okay. So I'm- [0:36:12] Senator, are you, are you... Excuse me, are you referring to the fiscal note? [0:36:15] Yes. Yes. [0:36:15] Is that sort of the question? I, I don't, I don't have a copy of that, but the bill we are contemplating would provide a modest increase to a 5,000 a mile credit to catch up for inflation. And that fiscal note does show, I think in the outyears, like, a total cost in the nine to nine and a half million number. It seems a little bit high, because we, I think, understand the total short line miles to be a little bit less than what was included in that figure, but, but the upswing relates to the increase in the credit and the ability to claim more of a credit, um, [0:36:49] Yeah, just, I was ju- that's a big jump in one year to make a difference from 27 to 28. So that was m- my question about it. Okay. [0:36:57] All right. We're gonna go into testimony. I think maybe one or two of these are by Zoom. I'm not sure if that correct. So, who do you wanna have first? Okay, let's have, uh, Justin Strickland. And can we get... Is he on Zoom? All right, we need to, need to, you know, try to keep it to two or three minutes here of what you need to, points you need to say. And, and I would always say, too, if somebody's already said it, we don't like to keep repeating the same thing. [0:37:29] But with those limitations- [0:37:31] Yes, sir [0:37:31] ... go ahead. [0:37:33] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, can y'all hear me okay? Just a quick check. [0:37:37] Yes. [0:37:37] We can. [0:37:39] Okay. Thank you. Uh, Justin Strickland. Uh, I work for OmniTrax. We are a privately held, family-owned railroad company. Uh, I live in Albany, Georgia. Um, OmniTrax owns four short line railroads in the state of Georgia. Uh, one in Albany, where I live, another in the city of South Fulton at Fulton Industrial, uh, another railroad in Washington, Georgia, and then we built the first new short line railroad in Georgia in 80 odd years, uh, in Rincon, Georgia. [0:38:10] Um, all of our railroads connect with the larger railroads. Um, we serve, as, uh, Mr. PD said, uh, customers', uh, first mile, last mile move to connect them with the freight system of North America. Um, we've been, uh, fortunate, um, to be a growing company the last five years. Um, we've captured more business, uh, that moves by rail, uh, and quite frankly moves the kind of products, um, that I don't want my daughters or wife, um, driving next to on the road. [0:38:44] Um, so we're here to support, uh, the continuation of this credit. Uh, it's beneficial for us because it allows for us to, um, properly maintain roads. Uh, one success story for us, we were able to rehabilitate our rail yard in Albany, uh, where we connect closely with Norfolk Southern, um, but also serve a lot of customers in Southwest Georgia that move farm and ag products, that move lumber, um, and that move a lot of raw material inputs that make products, um, in and around Southwest Georgia. [0:39:18] Um, so for us to be able to use this credit to help rehabilitate our yard, um, keeps our customers getting their freight on time and being able to move finished product out on time. Um, and just glad to be able to be here today to testify and fully support, um, the work, uh, that this tax credit has been able to provide to our company. [0:39:42] All right. We appreciate your testimony. Thanks a lot. [0:39:44] Thank you. [0:39:46] And then I guess we've got one more. David Bevins, is he on as well? [0:39:50] Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:39:52] You can go ahead. [0:39:54] Can you hear me? Oh, can you hear me okay? Thank you. [0:39:56] Yes. [0:39:57] All right. I will not, uh... I'll try my best not to repeat any of the further, uh, uh, dialogue here. But, uh, I work with Patriot Rail and we, uh, o- operate, uh, two railroads. Uh, we're privately held just as OmniTrax. We operate two railroads in the state of Georgia. One is the Georgia Northeastern, which operates between Marietta up to McCaysville, then another is the Georgia Southern that operates from Dover to Metter and also from Fort Valley to Perry, uh, hauling several products that were discussed. [0:40:31] The bill is very important to us. Uh, we do a lot of work. Uh, you know, everything is our burden when it comes to track maintenance. We operate 200 miles total, uh, 90 miles, uh, in the Southern Georgia and, uh, 100 miles in North Georgia. Very important to us, uh, for the continuation of this, uh, to, uh, for us to maintain proper infrastructure. I, I wanna turn back just a moment. Short lines represent the first and last mile of a car's movement. [0:41:02] So with that, a car is loaded, the first mile it travels most of the time is on a short line railroad. It then interchanges to a class one railroad where it goes on to destination. And as it comes back, it also travels its last mile- To final destination where it's unloaded. The safety of those railroads is critical, both to the public and also to help promote job growth and also, uh, folks that wanna move into the areas. One good example I can provide is in Cherokee County where we just, uh, uh, laid a siding down for a new customer we have there. [0:41:38] It's a cement company who's providing cement in and around that area for further growth, economic growth up in Cherokee County. Brought in more jobs. That's about 1,000 car loads a year that are running just to that one particular customer. So it's, it's a great reflection of, uh, opportunities, uh, again, growth in that area, growth in the state of Georgia, and also as we've expanded operations in Southern Georgia as we operate from Dover now to Metter, which was not, uh, something we'd done in the past. [0:42:12] So I appreciate the time to support the bill, and also to speak on behalf of the Georgia Railroad Association and other short lines in the state. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:42:21] Thank you- [0:42:21] Thank you [0:42:21] ... and thank you for your testimony and for being concise. We appreciate it. We've got Joe Ar- Bova, Arbona. Yeah, if you wanna come on up. Somebody needs to give him a spot to talk from up here. [0:42:42] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, my name is Joe Arbona again, uh, with, um, Genesee & Wyoming Shortline Railroads. Uh, we operate several, uh, short lines here in the state. Um, and I'm obviously, uh, talking in support of, uh, you know, HB, uh, 1070. Just wanted to give an example real quick of something that, um, uh, happened thanks to the tax credit that y'all, uh, passed back in 2018. Um, we, uh, own the Georgia Central Railway that goes from, uh, Savannah all the way up to Macon, uh, through Vidalia, and, uh, that particular railroad at one point was losing a lot of the rail in business on the northern end, and, uh, was really challenged. [0:43:20] Because a lot of our short lines, this is kind of a, one of the, the, uh, the s- typical short line usually is about 25 miles long and has about handful of customers, and one of them is usually the anchor customer that keeps the lights going. We lose one of those customers, we're in big trouble. Uh, unfortunately at the Georgia Central, again, from Savannah to, to Macon, we lost some major rail in businesses. We thought we were actually gonna have to abandon part of that line. Thanks to the tax credit- [0:43:45] So where did they go to when you lost them? [0:43:48] Oh, uh, they, they just shut operations down completely, so it's- [0:43:51] They- [0:43:52] ... there's not enough, uh, demand. So because of that, we thought we're gonna have to abandon the, that portion of the line, the line. We ended up thinking, "Well, you know what? Let's continue reinvesting." We did. Eventually, with the tax credit and some of the support that we also got through a federal ta- uh, grant, we were able to, uh, keep that line going, and actually, uh, grow it, make it, uh, uh, go from 10 mile an hour to 25 mile an hour, make our bridges handle 286,000 pound, uh, rail cars, which is the standard in the industry. So when we connect with the big guys like Norfolk Southern, CSX, we don't have to underload the cars. [0:44:26] And again, thanks to that, uh, tax credit, we were able to keep the line going, and today we're, I'm very happy to say that even though we've lost some business, for example, the, uh, recent, uh, closures of, of, of mills, like in, in Savannah, uh, paper mills, we actually were able to, uh, assist with the landing of the, uh, Hyundai plant in Pooler, which is something that actually helps bring a lot of jobs and, uh, and opportunity. And, uh, we were just, again, very thankful that the state was able to make that happen and, you know, we appreciate it. Um, we also have, uh, the Riceboro, uh, Southern Railroad, and it's one that's actually struggling quite a bit right now because of the loss of another mill. [0:45:03] Um, and I have to tell you, the, these, one of the stats that you'll hear, uh, uh, is that short line railroads around the country make up about 34% of the, all the rail in the country, but we only earn about 6% of the revenue to maintain that 34%. Very challenging. Our margins are really small. Some railroads do pretty well. I'm not gonna say not. I mean, Georgia Central's doing great now, thank goodness, but, uh, some of them are not doing well and they're, um, challenged. And the idea of being able to, um, extend that tax credit would make a big difference. [0:45:37] And again, we'd like to thank you for your support in the past and keeping that going. [0:45:42] All right. [0:45:42] And I'll be, uh, able to answer any questions you may have. [0:45:46] Um, I'm not seeing any questions. Senator- [0:45:50] Senator Tillery [0:45:51] ... Bill Tillery. [0:45:51] Thank you, Joe. Joe, you, you're, you're a friend. You and I talked a lot about- [0:45:54] Yep [0:45:54] ... railroads over the years. I think you found me to be incredibly supportive. I just wanna make sure, do y'all currently, y'all currently still lease some of our short lines, right? [0:46:01] We lease, uh, some of the lines, yes. [0:46:03] So- [0:46:03] There's about 400 mm some odd miles I think that are state-owned railroads, yes. [0:46:09] That your company leases. [0:46:10] That we lease from the state, yes. [0:46:13] So if I'm reading this bill correctly, though, then the 18 million that we've just put in, or the 8, 8.3 million this year, we didn't do the full 20, we're gonna be rebuilding some of the lines that you lease. [0:46:24] Right. [0:46:25] And then for the monies that you put in as well that gets considered as qualified railroad track maintenance and administration- [0:46:31] It, it goes back into the railroad [0:46:32] ... which is a, is a pretty big definition, though. [0:46:34] No, I understand. [0:46:34] Then you're gonna get $5,000 tax credit per mile of the railroads you lease from us too. [0:46:43] Well, uh, now, the thing is, that money goes right back into the railroad. [0:46:46] Yeah. [0:46:47] That's, that's the point. Now, the railroads that we're most concerned about, because thanks to the legislature and supporting those, those state-owned railroads, are the ones that can't get any grant money or anything like that. So those are the ones that are tittering in some cases, and that would make a huge difference. So I will tell you, though, that s- you know, tomorrow that lease could go to s- uh, some other company. So these are assets that stay in the state and benefit the state. Um, the other railroads that we own that we don't lease from the state, some of them are doing well, some not so well. [0:47:19] And to be honest with you, back in my days at, uh, one of the class one railroads, being able to have rail service, even if businesses there aren't using it, they can use that as leverage to get lower rates from trucks and be competitive to bring business in. [0:47:35] All right. W- um, w- we're gonna do one more question here, then I'm gonna go ahead and say I'm getting enough questions where I think we're gonna continue this at another meeting, but one more question before we stop. Senator Albers. [0:47:47] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, and Joe Joe, you might not know the answer to this, somebody else in that crowd would, but, uh, if I'm reading this correct, there's a little over 1,600 total miles of, of short line track in Georgia, and 500 are state-owned. So rough math says 1,100 or so, uh, are private. [0:48:05] Mm-hmm. [0:48:05] Do you know how many of those are active? [0:48:08] Oh, I would think, um, the majority of them would. [0:48:11] Think or know? [0:48:13] I, I think. I, I, I don't know about the other ones. [0:48:15] Anybody in the back know how many are act- active? [0:48:17] 90%, that sounds about right. [0:48:18] I think so. [0:48:19] Yeah. [0:48:19] Okay. Say or know. [0:48:20] That's more of a GDOT question- [0:48:21] Okay [0:48:21] ... but yeah, I would think so. [0:48:22] All right. That, that would be a good follow-up question for people in the audience. [0:48:24] Yeah. [0:48:24] And the next question is, is in the last 10 years, have any short line railroads closed down? [0:48:31] Uh, not that I know of in the state. I know some of our, some of them are struggling. [0:48:36] Okay. [0:48:36] Um, I don't wanna mention names because I just heard, um, feedback from people telling me that they're having a real hard time. [0:48:42] Okay. [0:48:43] All right. [0:48:44] Thank you. [0:48:44] Well, we appreciate all the testimony. We're g- we've got some questions. We'll continue this at the next meeting. And with that, that was the last bill of the day. Meeting adjourned. I again apologize for the late start, but that wasn't my choice. I got bumped.