Senate Finance Committee, March 23, 2026 Video: https://vimeo.com/1175323019 (a timestamp t plays at https://vimeo.com/1175323019#t=s) Page: https://georgiacommons.org/meetings/2026-03-23/senate-finance This is a machine transcript of the General Assembly's video, made by a speech-recognition model. It is not an official record and can mishear words, names, and numbers. Speakers are not identified. The video is the record: every timestamp links to the moment it plays. [0:22:38] Actually vote until we get two more people here. Um, Senator Rhett, you wanna do the invocation for us? [0:22:45] Huh? [0:22:46] Are you number 11? [0:22:48] Should have been, yes, sir. [0:22:50] All right. Get everybody's attention. We're going to start the meeting to order. Do the invocation here. [0:22:55] Thank you. Bow our heads. Oh, Lord, we thank you for another day, an opportunity to do the people's work. Give us your wisdom, guidance, and understanding so that we can make Georgia the state that we all want it to be. We ask these things through Christ our Lord, amen. [0:23:09] Amen. Well, I was gonna have the chairman of Ways and Means go first, but he said he was okay with, uh, Representative Cannon coming up here on 547. So if you wanna come up on this bill. [0:23:23] Do you want to sign up, excuse me, Chairman, for the amendment? [0:23:26] Um, sure. You can just leave it. She, she picks 'em up. [0:23:43] Chairman, we good to go? [0:23:45] Mm-hmm. Yeah, go ahead. [0:23:46] Okay. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, committee members. This afternoon I have House Bill 547 for you. You probably haven't heard the- [0:23:54] Make sure we've got the same LC number. [0:23:57] Uh- [0:23:58] 443425S. [0:24:00] That's correct, Mr. Chairman. [0:24:02] Okay. [0:24:02] You haven't heard the word, uh, CUVA a lot this year, and that's been on purpose. CUVA stands for Conservation Use Valuation Assessment. Um, in the past we've had multiple of those bills. When this year we've tried to combine them into one, uh, kind of an omnibus bill. Today I've got three. I'm doing that today with y'all. I've got three very minor changes we're proposing to the statute. Um, I'll run through those real quick, and then, uh, open for any questions. In section one of the bill, we're just adding language to the CUVA statute. [0:24:34] It mirrors the same language in the Forest Land Protection Act statute as it relates to carbon credits for timber. We think that language already exists. We're just clarifying it with basically one sentence. [0:24:47] Also, in section one, we're streamlining the process for tracking CUVA covenants for both the landowner and the local assessor's office. This is a case where you might have multiple parcels that enrolled in CUVA. Um, could be one, could be 10, could be 15, and they could all have different timelines with the assessor's office that you have to track. So the assessor's office has to track these multiple covenants, and so does the landowner. What we're allowing here, again, is permissive, is for the landowner to request, uh, that they, they all be placed on the same timeline so that they'd be easier to track, both for the landowner, the property owner, and for the assessor's office. [0:25:25] A little less bureaucratic, a little easier to manage. And then the last thing, the last little tweak we're making is in section two. Uh, we're giving 180 degra- 180-day grace period, six months to convert from a CUVA parcel to a FLIPA parcel. Conversion is already allowed by the law, but most times it takes place at a closing, and in some cases if the paperwork's not ready and the qualifying use isn't ready to be closed, this gives a little bit of a grace period to get the proper, the paperwork, um, essentially lined up for the conversion without constituting a breach. [0:26:00] Um, so the overall policy there is to prevent someone whose intent is to try to keep the land in conservation from having to pay a penalty before they get a chance to get the paperwork to keep the land in conservation. Um, no issues with ACCG or the assessors. They're o- okay with the language. Um, we've kind of pretty, got a pretty good consensus here, and that's the bill. Mr. Chairman, I'll stand for any questions. [0:26:27] Any questions of the committee? Uh, to my understanding, there's no, uh, fiscal impact on the State of Georgia- [0:26:32] That's correct, Mr. Chairman [0:26:37] ... with this bill. Anybody want to make a motion or- [0:26:39] Make a motion to pass. [0:26:40] All right. Motion and a second by Senator Anderson. All in favor, raise your hand. Looks like it's unanimous. Motion carried. Who's your sponsor? [0:26:50] Uh, it would be your senator, Senator Robertson. [0:26:52] All right. [0:26:55] Okay. Thanks a lot. [0:26:56] Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. [0:26:59] I ask the chairman, do you wanna go first or wait for, uh, another member or two? Your, your pleasure. [0:27:08] I'd prefer to the- [0:27:09] If you're gonna be here. So let me, um, 'cause Public Safety's still going on upstairs, and our vice chair is up there as well. Um, [0:27:20] we've got, uh, House Bill 229. This is actually Senator Dolezal's bill with the new language, where, um, we had previously passed this out, uh, with a, uh, tax exemption for tips and overtime. As you know, the House Bill 1199 took it out of the IRC. Um, I think there was general agreement from everybody to do this, at least on the Senate side, from the comments I heard from the first time I presented the IRC. [0:27:57] So this is the exact same language we had passed out before. [0:28:04] So this would be the will of the committee. [0:28:11] Make a motion to pass. [0:28:13] All right. We've got a motion from Senator Anderson. [0:28:16] Second. [0:28:16] Second, Senator Anavitarte. This is, this is the exact same tax and tips we passed out. But we also had it in the first IRC, the 11, HB 1199 that went over to the House, and I think everyone was supportive of that part of it, from my understanding. Uh, so I thought we'd try to do it without Senator Dolezal here to present his bill, since, um, a few of them with a late meeting had some other obligations. So we got a motion and a second. Any other discussion? All in favor, raise your hand. [0:28:47] All right. Opposed? Senator Hodges, did you vote? [0:28:51] Yeah. [0:28:52] Oh, I'm sorry. You came in late. House Bill 229. It's the, uh, uh, tax exemption for tips and overtime. All right. Ma- passes unanimously. [0:29:06] All right. And then, um, [0:29:13] the, uh, 169. Who was, who was presenting that? I know it's different language. All right. No. [0:29:23] I think that's me. [0:29:26] All right. [0:29:34] All right. Representative Hilton, the floor is yours. Just saw you in health committee a little while ago I think, so. [0:29:38] Good to see you again. [0:29:39] Yeah. Back again. [0:29:39] Thank you so much. Busy time of year. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'll, I'll keep it brief. This was originally language from House Bill 1110 which passed out unanimously out of House Ways and Means. This bill seeks to address a common problem that we hear from amongst our small business community. Scott, it is so hard to find, recruit, and retain employees as a small business owner. So it seeks to j- to address that issue while also touching on the issue of, of healthcare, uh, and small business be- small businesses being able to, uh, to provide healthcare to their employees. [0:30:11] Uh, this provides a, uh, tax credit in the amount of 400 or $600, uh, in the first three years of the program per covered employee for small businesses who contribute $200 per month to an employee's health, uh, reimbursement account. So, uh, we are incentivizing small business owners to do the right thing, contribute to a health reimbursement account, allow employees, enable employees to purchase healthcare, and enable small businesses to be competitive, uh, to off- offer competitive benefits to their employees. [0:30:42] Uh, and so, uh, it's supported by the Georgia Chamber, NFIB, and a number of different organizations. Honored to present this legislation. Will pause for any questions. [0:30:52] So, um, we had passed this out before. [0:30:56] Yeah, I believe it's passed this committee as well as the Senate floor. [0:30:59] Yeah, and, and we had whittled it down a little bit. It was a little bit shorter sunset we put into it and, um, had- [0:31:08] How, you know, that's what we like to- [0:31:09] ... cut down the, the credits a little bit. Um, at the time if I remember the discussion, you know, if, if people do this I, I guess it's good they put it in the employee's account. I'm not sure if this is enough to make them put it in the account, but I'm not sure we want to go higher than this either, so. [0:31:25] Correct. [0:31:26] It's one of those things if it, if it works it's probably good. If it doesn't, then we won't, um, spend any money. But we did pass it out before- [0:31:35] Yes, sir [0:31:36] ... uh, this committee with a little bit tighter strings on it. [0:31:41] Any questions from the committee? If not, have a motion. Motion from Senator Hodges to pass. Is there a second? Second. Second from Senator Still. All in favor raise your hand. Um, looks like it's unanimous. All right. [0:31:58] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [0:31:58] Senator sponsor. [0:32:00] Uh, I believe you carried it for us last time through the Senate. [0:32:03] The man. We'll s- we'll see. We'll check on it and see. [0:32:04] We'll check on it. [0:32:05] I may. [0:32:05] Awesome. Thank you, sir. [0:32:06] Okay. [0:32:10] All right, uh, Chairman Blackmon, I think we're- [0:32:12] You can go through this quick [0:32:13] ... to you now for a little bit longer discussion. [0:32:16] As quick as you tell the chairman will allow me to be. Uh, Mr. Chairman, with your permission I do have some- [0:32:26] Yeah, and I, actually that, is that that one pager I have? So that's in the folder. Is it a one page or more? [0:32:32] Well, I've got a few attached to it that- [0:32:34] Okay [0:32:34] ... kind of highlight. [0:32:35] Well, I had one page attached to it as well in the folder, but redundancy is good. We do want to take our time and go through this and, uh, make sure everybody understands what we're doing here. And the other thing is, um, the, the back half of the bill is, um, Senate Bill 566 which I think was scheduled to, it was on the floor today but then got pulled back. Is that correct? [0:33:05] Yeah, that, uh, Dante can, can attest to this. I think s- there was some confusion as to whether or not, uh, it had the correct date and, um, so we can be working that back in on Wednesday. [0:33:19] Okay. [0:33:19] Ultimately, turns out it does have the right- [0:33:22] So it could be that if we pass something out and if they pass out 566 on the House on Wednesday that we could eventually look at removing part of this bill or if the language is identical it may not matter either way. [0:33:41] So, um, why don't you give us a, a big picture view. I, I guess one thing is the, the House has finally come around to the Senate's way of thinking on the mandatory, uh, cap from two years ago and, uh, we- we're, we're glad that you, uh, came around to that way of thinking that we're all for. But I understand the issues before you had with it. [0:34:04] Yes, sir. I, I know we worked extensively on it and I, I do wanna thank you, um, for your help, uh, thus far on, on this legislation and for the work that y'all put in. I mean, we wouldn't be this far along without, um, what you've done here to, to help us, us get here. I will, uh, try to run through the provisions quickly high level and then you can ask me to drill down a little bit further if, if you'd like me to. Um- [0:34:29] Sure [0:34:29] ... on this page if you go through it, uh, it does, as you mentioned, it mandates the floating homestead exemption, uh, from 581, uh, which, uh, would require that on all local governments. I think we had about A little more than two-thirds of the cities and counties, uh, stayed in. I think, uh, about that amount or a little, little more, uh, opted out on the school front. This would put everybody back in. It does allow the, exemptions into the local digest for the school funding formula, and then there's some cleanup measures that are included there as well. [0:35:04] Um, there is a section, uh, that we put in that, uh, some 36 states have a property tax, uh, levy cap, and this is a revenue cap. I think we kinda, uh, split, sp- split down the middle as to, to how they do that. But this, um, allows increases at 3% or inflation of CPI, whatever's greater. Uh, it does have some exemptions, uh, from that or exceptions I should say. Um, again, it, uh, strengthens, uh, affordability and long-term predictability for, for our homeowners. [0:35:39] Uh, we also, uh, going, moving down to the third section there, um, and I'm not following the sections in the bill, but on this sheet, but caps local sales tax at the, the current level, which is five pennies. I think that is, um, nine pennies total. And, um, that again, uh, is some protections there, and it allows, uh ... Well, it, it, it requires that they utilize a penny for LHOST, and then it enables FLOST also to, uh, to backfill if, if the locals so choose. [0:36:12] So as many as, I think, 100, 100 to 110 counties and cities can eliminate their city county property tax. Um, and then finally, we require the local governments to put a written notice out by mail to every parcel carrier. They can opt for an electronic version of that. Right now, it's just required to be put in the local, uh, newspaper, and, uh, this would, would put something in their hands. So again, I'm, I'm not sure I've ever had a bill that I've taken more input or had more meetings or, um, discussions with local governments, with, um, with other members and, and other stakeholders, and certainly have, have appreciated that. [0:36:54] It's, it's been a, a, a pretty collaborative effort. Uh, it does not mean that everybody thinks this is perfect. It's far from it. There's been many versions, and we're trying to get it as right as possible. Um, but I think at the end of the day, uh, what we were, you know, shooting for is to try to help the taxpayer and, uh, be respectful of, of all our stakeholders, local governments. And I think the kind of input that we've received is, it, it'd be hard for a- anybody to s- to say that we didn't, uh, try to be as respectful as possible. [0:37:25] But again, the goal being the homeowner and the taxpayer, uh, to provide relief, predictability, and transparency. And Mr. Chairman, I'll certainly stand for questions. [0:37:33] Yeah, and I'll, I'll try to summarize again because this is sort of new to some members, and it's had a lot of changes back and forth on, both on your side and, and over here as well. So, um, again, we've got a 3% cap or CPI mandated for all cities, counties, and schools. They're, that does not include new growth, um, and any declared emergency. So new growth is above that. We're not punishing anybody for, um, or even y- say something's been on a TAD or something comes off the digest. [0:38:06] None of that counts against the cap. Any, any new, um, revenue does not count against it, whether it's coming off a TAD or a new building or anything like that, new homes. Um, but it does say that anything in excess of this 3% or CPI, whichever is higher that years, would require advertising as a tax increase and, uh, public hearings. And it would either need a ballot referendum to approve it or approval by the local legislatures. [0:38:37] The, the probably a little bit of complicated part for everybody is that there is no new sales taxes in this as far as the total. Um, but the local option sales tax, the LOST, will change to a local homestead option sales tax. Um, and this would take place on January 1st, 2027. So, um, it would have the same distribution as what everybody has now between the cities and the counties. [0:39:11] It would be up for negotiation in 2032, just like it normally always is every 10 years for the cities and the counties. I did it in 2002 on the Floyd County Commission. Um, they're not fun negotiations, but everybody has to come to an agreement. You have to do it. Um, but so we didn't wanna make them negotiate again this year and have an extra negotiation there. Just everything stays the same. We're trying to make sure nothing changes. Um, and that does apply to all property taxes. [0:39:43] The distribution stays the same and negotiated in 2032. Because everyone would be mandated in, then everyone would be eligible for the floating local option sales tax. Everyone's opted in. They can all do it. And under this bill, they would do it by resolution. There would not be a vote. It would be a resolution of local governments after they came up with their distribution formula. Um, and they could join the other 34 counties who opted in this last year in November and implemented this. [0:40:21] So currently, there's two pennies available, the LOST and the FLOST. There would still be two pennies available. It would be the FLOST and the LHOST. The FLOST is, um, distributed on all property taxes bill just like the LOST. So with those two, you're dead even right now. The, the LHOST goes to homeowners first, and then the money left over goes to the rest of the property. So because the FLOST And the LOST are equal, then nobody should get a tax increase. [0:40:58] No business property should get a tax increase. And depending on the revenue, most of them would see a tax decrease because of the, um, the LHOST that would go first to the homeowners, but then be spread out. So nobody gets a tax increase. Homeowner taxes on cities and counties should go away. Just I know on the, on the cities, the way we're doing it before, two-thirds of the cities would have their, uh, property taxes completely eliminated. And under this, it would be greater than that because the LHOST would go to the homeowner property early first. [0:41:35] Um, is that making sense to everybody? I'm trying to go through this. Um, so we should eliminate property taxes for cities and counties in almost all the counties and should substantially reduce property taxes for all other classes of property. The way we've done this, originally, one was gonna come in one year and one the other year. And so if the LHOST came in first and then a year later the FLOS came in, then you could see people's taxes go up and down. [0:42:08] The way we've coordinated all January 1st, 2027, you got two pennies eligible now, you still got two pennies eligible. They both go in January 1st, both by local resolution that if you wanna get it, um, to start in January, you would need to, by early November, have a resolution this year to, to be continuous. But that would be up to the local governments to do. It wouldn't require another ballot initiative. [0:42:35] Mr. Chairman, I, I, I've, if I might, I forgot- [0:42:39] Sure [0:42:40] ... or I neglected to mention some of the attached pages. And if, you know, if you look at, at the first page, it, you know, references the increases from 2019 to 2024 in- [0:42:50] Mm-hmm [0:42:50] ... property tax here in Georgia, uh, upwards of, uh, 49%. And you can see where median household income was at 29%, and then, uh, you can see where CPI fell, is at 24%. On the next page, it tracks the same with the local sales tax, and that being at 59%, again, 29%, uh, and 24%, respectively, with, um, the, uh, median household income and CPI. And then we include rent on the final page and, and merge those together and see that it tracks pretty closely with, uh, property taxes. [0:43:26] So, uh, one of the, you know, reasons and the impetus behind, you know, what we're trying to do here, if you, if you look at the numbers in 2024, homestead property tax amounted to about between $5 and $6 billion in total. That's after these increases. But the, the increases in sales tax and, and property taxes are closer to $10 billion. So if you'd have been on some, uh, trajectory that was closer to, uh, what we see in, say, Alabama, which was a 17% increase in property tax over that same time period, you could have all but eliminated homestead property tax just through the increases that we've seen here in Georgia. [0:44:03] Mm-hmm. And I was looking, and I'll even pick on some of my own counties here over the last five years on the, on the schools, um, with, with basically a flat student population. Bartow was up 79% in five years. Floyd, with a declining student population, was up 106%. Henry County was 71%. I mean, I can go on and on. I'm, I'm actually picking on my own counties, but I'm saying that this is going on all over the state. [0:44:35] And, um, we've gotta have, uh, some control. Utah, as we heard testimony, has done this. Everyone still gets the rate of inflation or CPI. Um, I'm sorry, 3% or CPI. Everyone gets only growth. And the, you know, the-- Everyone will be able to take advantage of that second penny now as well. So I think there's a, a lot of, of, uh, good in there. But we've gotta-- We've just seen some incredible increases and also incredible increases in, in fund balances. [0:45:08] I'm, I'm all for fund balances, but I think that, um, our taxpayers have suffered because of, um, the transfer of money from their fund to another fund, which happened to be the government fund, um, and instead of, uh, keeping the rate back. Um, we do have, uh, someone from the city of Atlanta that wanted to testify. Or let-- Well, first, let's, questions of the committee from, uh, the sponsor of the bill here, Senator Anavitarte, our majority leader. [0:45:40] Thank you. So just to be clear, Chairman, as we're talking about the LHOST, 'cause I think that's what's gotten most of the conversation from the last week or so, are you s- just going through and flipping through this, is, is that optional or a mandate, just for the record? [0:45:53] It does, uh, mandate the, the LHOST, uh, as a replacement penny, but it maintains the same distribution at the local level. So anyway, it would defer to homesteads first as opposed to, uh, applying to all properties, and then that leaves the FLOS enabled to, uh, to work on all properties, uh, collectively. Now, if you don't have a, a, a, you know, a LOST in place or a FLOS, then you could enact that independently and help your homeowners that way. But again, this prioritizes our homeowners, our taxpayers- [0:46:26] Right [0:46:27] ... um, there. And, uh, so yes, sir. [0:46:29] Well, I just wanna- [0:46:30] So the- [0:46:30] Go ahead, Chairman. [0:46:30] I was just gonna say, the, the, the FLOS and the LOST, the local option, the floating LOST, are the same distribution on the property. It spreads evenly to all property. So if you put in a FLOS by the end of the year, by resolution, no vote, then you're even with the local option. And then the LHOST that will be coming in in January would go to the homeowner property first. So nobody If that happens, nobody will see a tax increase in their bills and most everyone should see a tax grease, decrease and most of the homeowners in Georgia will have no property taxes except for, for their school taxes. [0:47:13] It, and with- without a constitutional amendment, this gets the, the largest amount of relief to the, to the homeowners and taxpayers as, as quickly as possible. [0:47:22] So what about for the counties that really don't collect much sales tax? [0:47:27] It doesn't punish them, uh, for not collecting much sales tax. They, they, they might not see as much relief, uh, for their homeowners and their property taxpayers. [0:47:37] I mean, we, we barely collect sales tax in Paulding County, as you know. Um, although one of my cities can't even manage their money, but that's another conversation for another day. But, um- [0:47:48] Well, now you got two of them in your- [0:47:50] Oh, I'm sorry. T- well, one of them's kind of a fake city, so, um, that's a different story, 'cause they don't even have a budget. Um, but that would be my only concern is this being a m- a mandated LHOST versus a optional LHOST. But I'll look at it some more. [0:48:05] But it, but if they put in the, the FLOST, they'll get the exact same money next year that they would've gotten under the lost. So they're, they're even on that. [0:48:15] It's- [0:48:15] And then the LHOST will be additional money that would go to the homeowners first. [0:48:19] It, it, and to the- [0:48:19] So there's no way anybody, anybody, you know, in any county would pay more. Uh, they would pay less. Now, some people would pay as, not as much less if you don't have a big sales tax base. You, you might be one of them that doesn't wipe out the homeowner taxes. But- [0:48:36] E- e- even if it's a smaller tax, it is replacing an existing penny, so it's, it's not a, a new penny there, as the chairman stated. And it would get more money in the pockets of our homeowners. [0:48:47] Would that... Say you're saving one more time. Make sure we're on the same page. [0:48:51] I just, it's, it's a replacement, uh, penny. Uh, it, it does, it's a conversion, so it, it converts another penny to the LHOST, so it's not a additional penny. And that sales tax would go directly to the homeowners, so it would provide additional relief regardless of, you know, of what the, the, what it, it levied before. [0:49:12] Okay. [0:49:14] All right. Senator Albers. [0:49:16] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I apologize for our delay. We were going late in the Public Safety Committee today, talking about important House bills. Uh, first off, I wanna commend, um, Chairman, uh, Blackmon and yourself for all this hard work. I think it's probably gonna work very simple in some counties, but I'm thinking of my home county of Fulton for a moment, where we have all these different cities. We have a, a school system bifurcated by a school system, and then another s- and then the other part. And I'm trying to figure out how going from a lost to an LHOST might be a little challenging with something that's munipal- municipalized to that degree. [0:49:55] Can you help walk me through that a little bit? [0:49:58] Well, uh, I, I think, Chairman, I, the, the way I would describe it is that it is, they are both dollar for dollar offsets so that if, you know, if for instance your revenue that you're receiving off of property tax is $100 and I wanted to take 25 of it, if, if I'm getting 25 of it for lost, uh, the very next year when it converts to LHOST, I'm gonna be getting 25 of it for LHOST. [0:50:25] Okay. [0:50:25] And you're gonna be left with 75 in both instances. Is that fair to say, Chairman? And that would- [0:50:30] Yeah [0:50:30] ... be distributed the same way. So that $25 that's distributed, um, you know, it would be distributed in exactly the same way among the county and the cities as it is right now. [0:50:42] Okay. Thank you. [0:50:42] That, yeah, 'cause we, we said that whatever that distribution is between the cities and the counties, we wouldn't touch it until it's normally negotiated in 2032. All right. Uh, Senator Hodges. [0:50:55] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm gonna go back to what Senator Anavitarte was asking, 'cause I have a number of... I mean, in where I live, this would be great. It'd be perfect, particularly with all the tourists who come in and spend money and, and, and, um, give us sales tax volume. But I've got some communities where their sales tax volume is very low. And what I wanted to ask was with, even with a FLOST and an LHOST, I mean, I don't see how commercial properties wouldn't bear the greater burden of property taxes. [0:51:39] And- [0:51:39] In, in a small, in a, in an environment where you don't have real healthy sales taxes. [0:51:47] I would say if you don't vote in the FLOST, they would. But if the, if the cities and the counties by resolution before the end of this year vote in the FLOST, then that is- [0:51:58] That would just, that would just replace the lost [0:52:01] ... That would replace the lost. So you're dead even. Where you're sitting right now- [0:52:04] Yeah [0:52:04] ... you're dead even. [0:52:06] It doesn't take any revenue away from the local governments. But if, as- [0:52:10] Yeah [0:52:10] ... to your point, uh, Chairman, if, if you get less sales tax- [0:52:15] Mm-hmm [0:52:15] ... I mean, that's even, that's even less of an impact on, on the rest of, uh, on everybody within that county, you know, because there's not that much to, to offset to begin with. Um- [0:52:29] Uh, does that make sense to you? [0:52:31] Well, yeah, but I'm just not, I'm just seeing the, I'm visualizing the greater burden that the, that the commercial properties will have. And you're saying that's not the case. [0:52:42] No, they will, they won't have a greater burden. If you'd, if they vote in the FLOST, it's exact same amount of money as the lost is right now. So everybody's even. Then the LHOST that comes in in January, it does go to the homeowners first. So they will get more benefit from that other penny than the commercial property But everybody will get some benefit from it. But, but they're, they, they already before that penny even comes in, they haven't... There's no increase in their taxes. [0:53:12] They're, they're even on it. [0:53:14] And it would vary a little bit from district to district. I mean, I think what we've seen with marketplace facilitators, you're getting more sales tax in rural counties because, uh, of the fact that it's, you know, based on your ZIP code. Um, but, uh, you know, maybe one thing I would share, Chairman, is that because you have a, a revenue cap, that you're, you're gonna see less increases year over year. So you're gonna have that predictability and protections for homeowners and non-homeowners alike, in addition to the mandate that goes to your homeowners. This just would actually be an offset, uh, again, for our taxpayer homeowner. [0:53:48] And, um, yes, could it, could it impact? I mean, I thought about that with my business. We've been through several iterations. And I would rather my, you know, employees that have a home locally, that, that they get the, the benefit, uh, because I, I get it against my profit and loss. So it's really ends up being half the cost for my business. I get depreciation. And, uh, frankly, I think, uh, a lot of them would benefit from having that savings at home with their families. And so, you know, there's that in the, in the instance that a local community doesn't wanna do something for their businesses. [0:54:23] But we do a lot for businesses here. I mean, you know, the chairman and I, we, you know, we, we see a lot of things that come through that are credits and exemptions and things like that. And, you know, when it comes right down to it, rather than the, the corporate, you know, folks that, that own homes that, you know, I mean, or, or, or be the commercial, I mean, it's, it's time to do something for the homeowner. And that's- [0:54:44] Well, I- [0:54:44] ... that's really what this is about, Mr. Chair [0:54:45] ... I get that. I, I really get that. But I've... But again, I've, I've got some worried business owners, people who own commercial property. And, um, you know, and I've, I've had some folks say, "Well, you know, if, if you, you know, you have an environment where your homeowner's not really paying any taxes, then, you know, they're gonna insist on more services, and we, the commercial people, are gonna be paying for them." I mean, there's some, there's some uncertainty about this. [0:55:15] Well, the, the cap provides that level of certainty 'cause you can only go up a certain amount. And if you'da had it in place, uh, over this period of time, you know, then you would've seen this go up by a fraction- [0:55:27] Mm-hmm [0:55:28] ... of what it did, you know, overall properties. [0:55:30] Mm-hmm. [0:55:31] So again, that, that, that's, I think, where you find the certainty. I'd love to talk to you more offline, Mr. Chairman, about it. [0:55:36] Yeah, okay, that's fine. All right. Thank you. So, so like, like the chairman was saying, with that 3% cap, your businesses can't go up more than 3%. So they're not gonna see an increase. But they should see a decrease from part of that sales tax. And again, with the o- with the first two pennies, they're even. They start off even, no tax increase. They get some benefit from that second penny, though the homeowners, as you say, get more of it than they do. But then the 3% cap keeps it from, from going up. [0:56:06] Only, uh, new additions, growth, new buildings, that kind of stuff would, would count, um, out from under the cap. Uh, does that explain it right? I'm, um- [0:56:19] I think so. [0:56:20] Okay. Senator Halpern, I know you've got a question. [0:56:23] I do. I've a couple of questions. One, I, I wanna just say, and I won't belabor it now 'cause I believe we've got other folks who will come and speak to it, but for cities like Atlanta that do not have a FLOS currently, they cannot transfer their LOSS to a FLOS because they're exempted from that because they have the most. That's Atlanta, College Park, East Point, and Hapeville. This is a big concern because there is no replacement vehicle for them. But we'll talk about that more. I won't belabor that now. [0:56:53] I do have a question, though, on lines 389 to 394. I wanna understand, because the LHOST is supposed to be for homeowner, the offset for homeowners' property taxes, but it looks like we are, um, adding taxes to food and gas under the LHOST. [0:57:14] It, it, it just copies what is in code, uh, for local sales tax currently. So it just mirrors what's already in code for your local option sales tax. [0:57:24] The state doesn't charge tax on food, but currently the local governments do. So if you've got, say, a 7% tax rate, they're already paying the 4% local. But the 3% state, they don't pay. [0:57:37] Okay. [0:57:42] Okay. Thank you. [0:57:42] Any other questions? Okay. [0:57:44] Thanks. [0:57:44] Um, maybe we'll go ahead and get the City of Atlanta. I know they had somebody that wanted to speak. Let me find my sheet here. Courtney Knight. [0:57:53] Hey, how you doing? [0:57:57] Good. [0:57:57] State your name and who you're with, though I think I just did, but do it anyway. [0:58:01] Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, uh, members of the committee. My name is Courtney Knight. I'm the treasurer for the City of Atlanta. Uh, Senator Halpern made exactly the comment that we're most concerned about, and that is the City of Atlanta is unique in that we have the most, which funds our water and sewer improvements. Therefore, we would not be eligible for the FLOST. So there would be no way to make up the lost revenue if we were able to... if we were not able to impact, uh, the FLOST for the City of Atlanta. [0:58:36] Uh, so your question, Senator Hodges, about how would you make up for that lost revenue would likely go, in the City of Atlanta, directly to commercial businesses. But it would certainly not make up for the approximately $160 million, uh, 15% of our budget that is currently the, um, [0:59:00] the, um... [0:59:05] The, the, the, the most is, uh, $200 million a year for us, and the lost is 150 million, approximately 15% of our budget. [0:59:17] So you said the most is 200 and the lost is 150? [0:59:21] Yes, sir. [0:59:22] Why would this... If you're charging a penny on tax, why would you get more out of one penny than the other? [0:59:28] Uh, exemptions. [0:59:31] Okay. [0:59:33] N- none of that revenue would change, as, as I understand. I mean, none of this is written to where any of that would change. The, the... There's no money being removed from, from the City of Atlanta. You may not have access to some additional upcharge on, on pennies, but we're not providing any kind of exemption or additional exemption on, on homes or other businesses in the bill. [0:59:57] I thought we would lose the lost. You don't- [0:59:59] You're, you're, you're replacing it with another penny, though. [1:00:02] From the FLOST? [1:00:03] From the LHOST. [1:00:04] I'm sorry. From the LHOST? [1:00:06] Mm-hmm. [1:00:06] I thought we were not eligible for the LHOST. [1:00:08] You're, you're definitely eligible. You would automatically- [1:00:10] It's a- [1:00:10] ... get it January 1st without doing anything. [1:00:15] Yeah. It's a, it's a direct dollar for dollar replacement. [1:00:18] Mm-hmm. [1:00:18] Yes, sir. [1:00:20] Senator Albers. [1:00:22] Thank you. How are you, sir? [1:00:23] Go ahead. [1:00:24] Quick question. [1:00:24] I'm well, thank you. [1:00:25] Quick question. I, I, well, actually, I have two questions. You prompted one. I, I don't understand why somebody would be exempt from the most and why those wouldn't be the same dollar figures. [1:00:34] I, I think the legislation is unique in that those cities that have a most are not eligible for the FLOST. [1:00:44] Okay. And then next question, um, I have to do a little more homework on that one. [1:00:48] I can't remember. That one- [1:00:49] The most expires when for the city? [1:00:52] Uh, we have another, um, election in 2028, and then it expires in 2032. [1:01:00] And if my memory serves, it's been a while, that was put into place to help with the aging water and sewer system, uh, that needed capital dollars to bring it up to speed. But doesn't it make sense that that would be caught up at one point and you wouldn't need an ongoing penny sales tax for that anymore? [1:01:15] You know, it's, it's an interesting question. Uh- [1:01:18] Okay [1:01:20] ... one of the important aspects of my job is to maintain our relationships with the bond rating houses, Standard & Poor's, Moody's, and Fitch. We met with them last week for, uh, discussions around the city's Department of Watershed Management and its ongoing capital program. Um, I'm not an engineer, but you don't really catch up on those improvements. Um, the capital requirements necessary for continuing to replace, uh, pipes, uh, infrastructure, water treatment plants, wastewater treatment plants, has a huge capital cost going forward of several billion dollars. [1:02:05] Thank you. [1:02:06] So I, I think you're eligible for the FLOST, and the reason I say that, if you look on line... You don't have a copy of the bill, I don't guess. If you look on line 85, and it's probably not clear there, but it says, "Sales and use taxes levied and collected pursuant to article four of this chapter and any tax levied for purposes of a metropolitan area system of public transportation." So I don't think we're touching MARTA or the most tax. A- and we're exempting them, so you... [1:02:37] Because we're exempting them from the cap starting on line 85, you would still be eligible for both the FLOST and the LHOST. [1:02:45] I'll- [1:02:45] Let me check with leg counsel on there. Am I saying that correctly? [1:02:48] I, I believe that's accurate, yes. [1:02:51] Yeah. I was under the impression- [1:02:52] So that may alleviate your concern. I know it's, it's a complicated bill and it is hard to read, but... [1:02:57] And it just got to me a few hours ago, but I was under the impression that a city that had the most was not eligible for the FLOST. [1:03:08] Is, is that your understanding too of, of the most? I mean, that- [1:03:12] Yes [1:03:13] ... that, that you're still eligible for it. So you're, you're not being punished because of the most. We're, line 85 is where we're exempting that from the cap. [1:03:32] That would be good news. [1:03:33] Five years. [1:03:34] Mm-hmm. [1:03:34] Five years. [1:03:36] Yeah. [1:03:40] But that's still under the cap, not the most, so. [1:03:43] Yeah, I know, but still, it's [1:04:59] just, you can't [1:05:10] quite [1:05:13] Walk me through that little county. How, how it's gonna help them. [1:05:24] How it's gonna help the people there? [1:05:26] Yeah. I mean, I mean, what- What it's gonna do is, is double their sales tax revenue. Now, it may not be a lot. I don't know the county. It may be a lot, it may be a little, but it will double their sales tax revenue by going from one to two pennies on local option. So whatever it is you're getting now, it won't be less, it'll be more. It'll be exactly double. [1:05:51] There's a lot of issues. [1:05:55] Mm-hmm. [1:05:55] It's a lot of work to explain, right? [1:06:01] All right. All r- [1:06:06] a- Are you, you looking up his county right now? Is that what you're doing or? [1:06:09] I was just trying to find it. [1:06:12] It's so small we can't find it. [1:06:15] The city's small. [1:06:16] While, while we're doing that, Senator Halpern, you had a comment or not? Was that you or- [1:06:21] I have comments. Oh, no. [1:06:23] Okay. Crawfordville. [1:06:25] Crawfordville. [1:06:27] It's Crawfordville. Okay. Go ahead. Tallahooshee County. [1:06:32] It's gonna be the one of the 158 that we don't have, I guess. [1:06:37] So this is a legislative council question. 48-8-109.31F, that is amended in this sub copy. 'Cause in current law, we, an, an Atlanta is prohibited from enacting a FLOST because they have a MOST. I am seeing line- [1:07:00] But if you look at lines 84, when it talks all the caps, 84 says you can't do it contrary- [1:07:08] Mm-hmm [1:07:08] ... except for the following. And line 85 is where the MOST comes in. So it's c- [1:07:14] Mm-hmm [1:07:14] ... so we're, we're exempting the MOST from that cap in line 85. [1:07:20] By saying except for the following. [1:07:21] Except for the following, and that's one of the following- [1:07:24] Article 15 [1:07:25] ... that doesn't count towards the cap. [1:07:31] All right, um, any other questions or comments? [1:07:39] Um, City of Atlanta's testified. I, I don't know that we're gonna do any more, any more testimony right now. Anything you wanna close with? [1:07:55] No, sir. I think I, I think I hit everything. I, you know, you may have, have some closing remarks, Chairman. Again, I just echo the, you know, appreciation that we have working with you to try to come up with a, a solution that, again, is respectful of, of all of our stakeholders here, but gets, uh, gets some money back in the pockets of our taxpayers. [1:08:16] All right. Well, I, I guess, uh, due to some, perhaps everybody wanting to make sure they're crystal clear on this, we'll probably hold this one more day. I'm, I apologize. [1:08:26] Yeah, that's good. [1:08:26] But I, I think there's some people that wanna verify what we're saying, and I'm okay with that. [1:08:32] I, I certainly will make myself available, Mr. Chairman. Um- [1:08:36] Mr. Secretary. All right. Uh, last comment, I guess, Senator Hickman. [1:08:41] Yes, sir. And just, um, you know, one, it seemed like one of the big players that we listened to so much is the... Thank you for being here, Mr. Chairman. [1:08:48] Yes, sir. [1:08:48] You do a great job. And y'all, y'all work very close together. I appreciate that. W- what about the Georgia Chamber and the Chamber of Commerces, have they reached out? There's nobody in this room today from them that signed up to talk about this. [1:09:00] Well, it's, it, it, it is, I would say it, it is hard when you don't necessarily have anybody in the hall that's advocating on your behalf and, and, you know, who you're really working for here is, is the citizens that are, are back home. But- [1:09:15] Yeah [1:09:15] ... uh, no sir, I don't think we've had any real input there. We've had mostly input from the, uh, local governments and the, the stakeholders there. We have had the realtors- [1:09:24] Right [1:09:24] ... and we've had members that have come, uh, with some of our, uh, tax association- [1:09:29] Right [1:09:29] ... types, uh, that, that have advocated for this as best practices from across the country. [1:09:34] Okay. Thank you, sir. [1:09:35] Thank you, Mr. Chairman. [1:09:36] Thank you, sir. [1:09:41] Mr. [1:09:44] Chairman, can I ask a question? [1:09:44] Certainly. [1:09:45] Thank you. Um, to the chair- [1:09:49] Uh-oh [1:09:53] ... uh, is, is, is it accurate or inaccurate to say that we're, uh, we're leaving property tax? We're shifting more to sales tax? Um... [1:10:06] I think, I think what it would be fair to say is that we may be shifting some of our existing sales tax towards homeowner property tax relief. I think that would be the more accurate statement. [1:10:19] I w- I would say right now you've got two pennies, and 34 counties already put in the FLOST. There's two pennies available, the LOST and the FLOST. As of next year, there will be exactly two pennies available again. There's no increase in the pennies. [1:10:37] Mm-hmm. [1:10:38] So we're not, we're not... A- and they did have a bill over there originally, and they were looking at school tax and stuff, and looked at the potential for... I think y'all were looking at some additional sales taxes over there and some data centers and stuff like that. But I think the chairman and I have worked together to try to hone it down to where there's no increase in sales tax from current law. It's the exact same two pennies. And, um, so I, I don't, I don't see us shifting the burden in that way if it, if we were adding it. [1:11:12] Yes, sir. [1:11:13] All right. Well, um, we're gonna, we're gonna continue this on. I appreciate everybody's input. I know it's hard stuff. Um, but be sure and bring us any questions you have, and we will, uh, see this again. [1:11:26] Thank you, Chairman. [1:11:26] Thanks.