House Retirement Committee, March 24, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:17:54

   Okay, folk- Okay, folks, we're gonna go ahead and get started.

2. 0:18:03

   Folks, we're gonna go ahead and get started. I'm gonna ask, uh, Chairman Greene to go ahead and give us a invocation to start us off.

3. 0:18:09

   Let us pray. Our Heavenly Father, as we come together today, let us be mindful that we are servants of the people. Let us be diligent in our work. And Father, let us carry forth what you would have us to do. A- and Father, we ask you now to be with us in the coming days as we close out this legislative session. Bless us, Oh Father, guide us and direct us in all things. And we ask this in the Holy Son's name, amen.

4. 0:18:41

   Amen.

5. 0:18:41

   Thank you, Gerald. Okay. Um, we've got a brief, but, uh, I would still say, uh, pretty meaty agenda for today. Uh, I understand the senator, uh, has something else. If I could have, uh, Senator Hickman come on up with, uh, Senate Bill 150. Bethany, you're welcome to join him. And I, I, I just wanna say on behalf of House and Senate, I just wanna appreciate both of you working together on this.

6. 0:19:05

   Senate Bill 150, I think. Go ahead, Mr. Senator.

7. 0:19:11

   Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, um, I totally agree. She and I have been a team since day one, and we've, um ... Sometimes we don't always agree, but we always seem to come together at, at the right time, so, uh, so-

8. 0:19:22

   You don't wanna get on her bad side, I know that.

9. 0:19:23

   Oh. Well, I haven't seen that about her. I, I-

10. 0:19:26

    I haven't either. I just know not to get on it.

11. 0:19:28

    Everything I've seen about her's been very, very pleasant. Uh, but thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank y'all committee members. We will not go, won't go through the whole bill like we did last time in the background, but, but we do, we are working off of, off a committee substitute, um, uh, House Substitute LC560684S, as in Sam.

12. 0:19:49

    Correct, yes.

13. 0:19:49

    Okay. Very good. So we, uh, we went through the history of the bill last time and why we need it and, and what the purpose of it is and that type of thing. But I just mainly wanna hit on the highlights, Mr. Chairman, of, of this substitute. And, uh, uh, Representative Ballard can join in any time 'cause, uh, she really helped us craft this substitute that actually came out of the House. We did, some of the changes that we made in the, in the substitute was, uh, originally we had a, we had a, um, I think it was a eight-year sunset. We have now, um, through y'all's leadership, have dropped that sunset back to June 30th of 2030.

14. 0:20:27

    Um, I think that's a four-year, four-year sunset. Very happy with that. These changes I'm very satisfied with. I'm just glad that we're getting this, getting this bill moved forward. We still, um, the, uh, uh, down on line 27 of the, of the, uh, substitute, a beneficiary who has obtained 30 years, remember initially it was 25, uh, we, we increased it to 30 years. As we said before, there's, um, uh, there was no, um, fiscal note, uh, no dollar amount on the 30 years or the 25, but we, we agree with the 30 years of credible service in this retirement system in a full-time capacity as a certified teacher of pre-kindergarten through grade 12, highly, highly important, who has, or his or her primary responsibility is the academic instruction and support of students in the area of mathematics, special education, science, CTAE, reading, writing, or English language arts, provided that such beneficiary in the area of reading, writing, and, and/or, or English language arts holds a current dyslexia or reading endorsement approved by the Professional Standards Commission, provided that at least one year has expired from the effective date of such beneficiary's retirement.

15. 0:21:37

    So we know that they gotta be out of the system a year before they can come back. They can come back for the 49% in that, during that period of time, but, uh, in order to come back full time, it's a solid year. Um, we, uh, uh, added some wording, uh, on advice y'all has used in code section. Area of the highest need means one of three content areas for which there are the greatest percentage of unfilled positions for classroom teachers, and that's gonna be determined by the public school system. Um-

16. 0:22:06

    And just to be clear, this is, uh, it's rated as no cost on the actuarial investigation. Uh, that, that's the, the proper-

17. 0:22:14

    That's right

18. 0:22:14

    ... terminology that we give.

19. 0:22:14

    That's right.

20. 0:22:14

    Go ahead, sir.

21. 0:22:15

    That's right. That, it, it, it was that type of, um, fiscal note. Um, and then the very last thing I will say, there was to be no change in public school systems. The area of highest need shall require the termination or resignation or no renewal of any beneficiary previously hired under, under a previous subsection. So I, I, I would defer to Pr- uh, Representative Ballard to address that, which if you want.

22. 0:22:37

    Go ahead, sir.

23. 0:22:38

    Go ahead.

24. 0:22:39

    Um, so what, what that means, that protects some of our teachers who have returned to the classroom. For example, if math was a high needs area and you returned, um, as a math teacher, but math rolled off your area of high needs list, but you're a really great math teacher and they want to keep you, they don't have to fire you. They don't have to terminate your contract. You can stay on even though y- math is no longer high needs.

25. 0:23:10

    We're very satisfied with that.

26. 0:23:14

    More anything, it, uh, it slightly expands, but it also keeps the program going for four more years.

27. 0:23:19

    Yeah. Yes, sir.

28. 0:23:19

    Um, Representative Ballard, about how many teachers statewide are coming back to return to work through this? I, I thought it was in the neighborhood of 300 to 500 teachers statewide. Is that correct?

29. 0:23:29

    I think the last, um, last year was, like, 452, something like that.

30. 0:23:33

    That sounds right. That sounds right.

31. 0:23:36

    And Mr. Chairman, I think by expanding these areas that we'll have ... You know, the idea, the, as y'all remember, we, we need to get qualified teachers in our classroom. We can't, we can't, um, go any longer with, with a person in a classroom not being a degreed teacher. And, um, I think by opening this up and adding CTAE and some other subjects to it really does expand it. Hopefully, that number will increase.

32. 0:24:00

    You have a question, number 24?

33. 0:24:02

    Yes.

34. 0:24:04

    Chairman Greene.

35. 0:24:05

    Senator, this is a godsend for the rural areas. We cannot get-

36. 0:24:12

    Oh, thank you

37. 0:24:12

    ... enough teachers.

38. 0:24:13

    Thank you.

39. 0:24:14

    And, um, especially in the area of math and science. And to extend this is just what that our superintendents... And I have nine of them, uh, su- school superintendents down there, and they are all in favor of this.

40. 0:24:29

    Thank you.

41. 0:24:30

    And this is absolutely-

42. 0:24:32

    Thank you

43. 0:24:32

    ... what we need.

44. 0:24:33

    Thank you. Thank you, sir. Thank you for coming.

45. 0:24:36

    The, um, the next one I saw was number 16. I think that's Representative Buckner. Is that right?

46. 0:24:41

    It is. It is.

47. 0:24:42

    Go ahead.

48. 0:24:42

    This is just my curiosity. I noticed that you had s- you struck RESAs making the decisions. So is that just so that the public schools that are closest to the need have the best information and can make that decision? Or is there another reason?

49. 0:24:59

    Um, no, it's just to provide that measure of local control and local responsiveness. Um, our RESAs are very often so diverse, um, and there's very often, like, one, you know, kind of suburban county and a whole bunch of rural counties. Well, those needs are very, very different. And so this, I felt, was more responsive to, especially to our rural counties.

50. 0:25:21

    Yeah. Thank you.

51. 0:25:22

    I agree with that.

52. 0:25:24

    Okay. Thank you. Uh, number two, I think that's Chairman Wilkerson.

53. 0:25:28

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, with this being extended to 2029, and I know we just did an audit report that kind of talked about the benefits and the, the challenges that it's facing, is there, is it possible to do another audit at the end so that when we're reevaluating this, or whoever's reevaluating this in '29, has an opportunity to see the latest data? Because, um, the, the hope is that we would have more than 400 teachers taking advantage of it. But is it possible, would you consider adding another audit requirement in there at, in '28 or something like that?

54. 0:25:59

    I think that's an automatic, automatic-

55. 0:26:02

    When we-

56. 0:26:02

    ... question every year. I think we'll know every year based upon the classes or the, the courses that's taught and also the teachers, um, the number of teachers, and also the, uh, the area and the school districts they're in.

57. 0:26:15

    Correct. But I guess when the plan was originally expiring in July 1st, 2025, we put in there that you would have to have an audit prior to that date to, to basically talk about the value and the necessity of full-time employment of beneficiaries. I'm looking at line 74 through 78. Um, with it being extended to '29, should we update that language to say July 1st of '29, so we can have another audit done to-

58. 0:26:42

    To change that

59. 0:26:43

    ... to know if this is working as intended?

60. 0:26:48

    Do you okay?

61. 0:26:48

    Yes, well, we, both of us-

62. 0:26:49

    Yeah

63. 0:26:49

    ... would be happy with that.

64. 0:26:50

    All right. Thank you.

65. 0:26:51

    If you would offer that as an amendment, we'd be happy with that.

66. 0:26:52

    Okay. At the appropriate time, I'm gonna need it.

67. 0:26:55

    I, uh, well noted, and, uh, good catch, and I think that would be, I, I imagine that would be a non-fiscal-

68. 0:27:01

    Yes, sir

69. 0:27:02

    ... um, change to the, to the, to the substitute bill. Any other questions from the committee?

70. 0:27:10

    Well, I know one constituent wants to speak to this. Mr. Haycock, go ahead.

71. 0:27:17

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm gonna be exceedingly brief. Uh, but on behalf of educators across the state, I just wanna thank Chairman Hickman, Representative Ballard, and all the committee for their continued work on this. And if there are no questions, I just simply urge your favorable consideration, uh, to continue this important program. Thank you.

72. 0:27:33

    And you're speaking on behalf of Professional-

73. 0:27:34

    Uh, yes, Professional Association of Georgia.

74. 0:27:36

    That's the one.

75. 0:27:36

    Very solid.

76. 0:27:37

    Yeah, yeah. Good.

77. 0:27:37

    Yep. There we go.

78. 0:27:38

    Very good. Any questions? Number 17.

79. 0:27:44

    Mr. Chairman, on, on the gentleman's request for an amendment, I've just consulted with the attorney. I- if we amend, we do have to get another cert, even if it's non-physical.

80. 0:27:53

    Mm.

81. 0:27:54

    Um, we could vote it out of committee and, and get that cert before it goes to the floor, I believe. Uh, so I don't believe that would slow the gentleman's... Uh, that, I'd leave that to the chair in terms of the amendment and where that would be.

82. 0:28:03

    I, I think it will be, I think it's, um... I, I think it would be, yes, it would require a new cert, but I think it could happen quickly.

83. 0:28:12

    Yes, sir. I agree.

84. 0:28:13

    Um, and I'd like to have that in-

85. 0:28:15

    Thank you

86. 0:28:15

    ... um, to address Chairman Wilkerson's point. I hear what you're saying, and I, I think we could, uh, achieve that quickly.

87. 0:28:22

    Yeah.

88. 0:28:22

    We still have four legislative days. I don't see this coming out on the floor Wednesday, but I would... I w- particularly to, to Chairman Greene's point, I, I think this needs to come out for a vote sooner rather than later.

89. 0:28:34

    Yes, sir.

90. 0:28:35

    So, okay. Any other discussion on the bill? No more speakers. Any questions from the committee? I'll entertain a motion. Make a motion. We have a motion to pass from Vice Chairman Franklin. Do I have a second?

91. 0:28:51

    Change that to '29.

92. 0:28:53

    A second from Chairman Greene. Uh, discussion next. Okay, I think I'm gonna recognize Representative, I mean, Chairman Wilkerson.

93. 0:29:04

    Thank you, uh-

94. 0:29:06

    I'm sorry. Hold on.

95. 0:29:07

    Thank you.

96. 0:29:07

    There you go.

97. 0:29:08

    I would like to, um-

98. 0:29:13

    Go ahead

99. 0:29:13

    ... make an amendment. Yeah.

100. 0:29:14

     Okay. Ooh, man.

101. 0:29:17

     That's okay. Take me out of a suit and I forget what I'm talking about.

102. 0:29:19

     We're very tired.

103. 0:29:19

     Um.

104. 0:29:22

     Prior, on line 74, I would like to change the date prior to July 1st, 2025, to say July 1st, change the 2025 to 2029.

105. 0:29:33

     As an amendment?

106. 0:29:33

     As an amendment, yes.

107. 0:29:35

     Is there a second for the amendment? Second. Second from Chairman DeLoach. All in favor of the Chairman Wilkerson's amendment to change 2025 on line 74 to l- to 2029, all in favor say aye. Aye.

108. 0:29:50

     Aye.

109. 0:29:50

     Any opposed? Okay, amendment passes. Now, for the substitute as amended, and again, thank you, Senator, for reading that off. LC560684S as amended, all in favor say aye. Aye.

110. 0:30:04

     Aye.

111. 0:30:04

     Any opposed?

112. 0:30:06

     Congratulations. Thank you. Thank you, sir. Bethany, don't forget the rules, um, form, and let me talk to, uh, let, let me help you in rules if, if at all- Thank you- ... if at all I can. Okay. I'll run back and get my form. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Chief Counsel- Thank you. Can you go ahead and make, uh, Department of Audit and Accounts aware? Thank you so much. Okay.

113. 0:30:32

     Senate Bill 143. Chairman Albers.

114. 0:30:41

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You mind if I brought Mr. Morgan Wurst up here with the firefighters- Please do ... to finally join me? All right. I'm gonna phone a friend. All right. I believe you have in front of you, uh, if that's okay, uh, LC56-0555S. Yes. All right. Great. Uh, Mr. Chairman, mem- members of your distinguished committee, I come before you again, uh, for something that's very personal to me. I'm not a member of the Firefighter Pension Fund, but I am four of five generations in my family.

115. 0:31:11

     My great-grandfather started, he was on a hook and ladder truck that was drawn by horses. That's how deep this is in my family. And over my 53 years on this earth, I have buried way too many of my brothers and sisters. More than I can count and more than I care to remember sometimes. You have a handout in front of you that says, "Sacrifice for service." And I just wanna go over what it means to be a firefighter and toll it takes on us before we talk about why this is such an important change.

116. 0:31:44

     First are the mental health struggles, which we've talked a lot about in this general assembly for the last many years. But firefighters very frequently experience burnout, anxiety, and depression. About 20% of firefighters meet the criteria for PTSD, which is similar to veterans who had just returned from active combat. I wanna share something that's really important. We all think of PTSD as our veterans typically, and if a veteran has served for two years of combat, which in today's day and age, thank God, is, is not anything normal, they could come back with 100 to 125 PTS moments, moments that could lead to that disorder and that stress.

117. 0:32:27

     Now, what does that mean to the average human being, to all of us? Well, the average person has four in your life. Think about it. Tragic car accident, death in the family, something happened that just really impacted you. Average firefighter has 700. I want you to think about that for a second. 700. What does that mean? Physical hazards. What are we exposed to? Carcinogens, toxic materials.

118. 0:32:58

     Our rate of getting cancer is exceedingly higher than everyone else's in any business. In fact, so much to the fact that Micah Gravley and I, years ago, passed a Firefighter Cancer Act here in Georgia, and it's become, uh, very commonplace in other states now. Very proud of that. Chronic sleep disorders, cardiovascular disease, and orthopedic issues, just to name a few, for the intense amount of strain on our physical bodies as well. Family stress. Firefighters' families deal with this very long-term effects of this trauma.

119. 0:33:31

     First responders and their partners typically have problems not just with PSD, but substance disorder abuse and their own anxiety. Why is that? Well, first off, it's shift work. 24 or 48 hours on straight to come home for 48 to 92, or 96 hours. And most jobs, you don't miss Thanksgiving, Christmas, Easter, Hanukkah, Passover. You don't have to leave in the middle of the night. You don't get woken up three or four times in the middle of the night.

120. 0:34:03

     Communication gaps, missing kids' dance recitals, soccer team, and baseball practices. We live, depending on the study, two to 18 years less than everybody else does. And we do it with a smile, and we're proud of it. And when you dial 911, we're the first people to get there almost every single time. And that's why I'm here today. You heard a great bill earlier about teachers. Teachers are very important, critically important, and we all love our teachers.

121. 0:34:36

     We give teachers the opportunity a long time ago and now to re-up again, to be able to retire and then come back and do the job that they love in a critical need. We give that opportunity to our law enforcement officers, your local police department, your sheriff's department, your jailers in the jail, and your 911 operators. We do not give this opportunity to firefighters. Is there, there's a lack of parity that exists today. If you flip over the back of this, you see a couple pictures.

122. 0:35:09

     One talks about some of the main points. When we have folks leaving this business, whether they leave at 10 years, 20 years, 25 years, we leave at the peak of experience when we need them the most. We talked earlier about our rural areas. In fact, dean of the house mentioned how important it was for teachers in rural areas. It's as important, if not more, for our firefighters in our rural areas. This is also a recruitment tool. People have a lot of options these days to do a lot of different jobs, and we really need them in this one.

123. 0:35:40

     But you see the two pictures on the bottom? We have a term for that. It's called Tuesday. It could happen any day of the week. And what you see is people walking through what is up to 1,000 degrees, carrying hose, carrying ladders, carrying people in and out at great strain to them physically and mentally. And that's why many years ago, through the wisdom of this general assembly, you created the Firefighter Pension Fund. And it has been very successful, managed by a great board and Mr.

124. 0:36:12

     Morgan Wurst to my side. They have managed it extraordinarily well. In fact, I got to share some numbers, uh, with you, Mr. Chairman, of what their percentage is, even better than the TRS system, which we're doing this for, and even my friends with the ER system, both great systems. And I think we all know that Georgia has done a great job on keeping our systems funded when we look like other states like Illinois, who are in the single digits, and we are close to the top. This is a really simple bill. It says when you meet the magic number of 80 years of alive, up to 50 plus, and 30 years of service, you're going to be able to retire and then come back and work in the fire service.

125. 0:36:54

     You're not gonna do, continue to draw and at the same time, you're gonna actually be out. You'll get your retirement, and you'll be out of the system then as an active person. You'll just be able to work. But today, we tell you you can't be a fireman anymore. It's the craziest thing in the world. People have asked, "Well, why is this different from somebody else?" And I will tell you, when I look at first responders and veterans, for everybody else, they deserve special treatment. 100% they do. Because nobody else has to do what we do, nobody else sees what we see, and candidly, nobody else can unsee what we saw.

126. 0:37:33

     This is going to keep your community safer. It's gonna keep the most experienced people there from our most rural areas that sometimes are literally dying for people to show up, to the folks here in our most metro area that have the biggest potential need for people to respond. Most of our firefighters are also your EMTs and paramedics now who are responding to medical calls more so than even fire calls sometimes. This is important. We've done the actuary study. The system can absorb this without any issue.

127. 0:38:04

     This is really important. And while there are several members of the fire service behind me, only because we didn't have more time, I could've had 2,000 people here. And if you were here on Firefighter Day that we had in February, when you saw all those people surrounding the south steps on the second floor, the third floor, and the fourth floor, the governor talked, the insurance commissioner talked, the lieutenant governor talked, the speaker, speaker talked. They all got nice applause.

128. 0:38:36

     An hour before that, I passed Senate Bill 143 through the Senate Retirement Committee, and that got a standing ovation. This is important. They're in every corner of your district. They are hopefully the most respected people that are doing good, not just for the fire service, but they're involved in every charity, every school tournament, every sports organization. They're part of your rotary clubs, your Kiwanis clubs. These are the people we count on, and this is a chance to give back to them. So I'd ask your favorable consideration to move this forward for my brothers and sisters in the fire service.

129. 0:39:07

     Thank you. Uh, I know that was heartfelt. And I didn't see any notes, and then that's how I know. Not just, not, not just that without a notes, but, uh, you were speaking from the heart. Um, Mr. Worth, did you have anything more to say before we go to committee questions and so forth? Yeah. Um, y- you know, a, a little bit about our pension fund. Uh, it is a supplemental fund, so this is, uh, you know, for our volunteers. It's their only, uh, uh, assuming, you know, if they're a farmer, they probably don't have a, you know, a company-sponsored 401, but for a lot of our volunteers, this is their retirement, uh, outside of, say, Social Security.

130. 0:39:50

     Um, but it, it is a distinction. It's a, it's a separate fund, so some of these folks, um, will be able, the, the paid ones will, you know, this will be an extra source of income for them, um, later in life, yeah. Uh, and we have, uh, we have 14,500 members, roughly, about 7,500 retirees, another, uh, 3,600 folks who are either suspended, vested, or, and waiting legal age.

131. 0:40:21

     So a total of about 25 and a half thousand members, uh, throughout the state. And, um, you know, I don't know what the total number of firefighters is out there. Um, you know, uh, I'm, I'm not really aware how many volunteers there are, but it is, uh, it's at least half of the, half of the state firefighters are in this fund. Morgan, could you go over that 14,500 bene- beneficiaries? Uh, no, uh, 7,500, oh, act- active members, so these are the firefighters themselves, the retirees/beneficiaries, so that's 7,500.

132. 0:40:58

     14,500 is what? Is that the contributing members? Yes.

133. 0:41:06

     And then a number of inactive totaling... Yeah, we, we call it, uh, suspended/vested/waiting legal age, so they're just, um, they're either, you know, the fire service o- is often very transitory. Certainly, uh, you know, m- members hop around, and sometimes there's, there's a, a break in service, and, and they don't get kicked out of the fund, but they're technically, you know, not active members. So, so we just classifi- classify them as that.

134. 0:41:36

     And it'd be important to note, Mr. Chairman, those non-active members sometimes are not active because they can't even work in the fire service anymore. They might be building houses or work for a landscaping company or change careers because they can't then, once they're vested, come back and work in the fire service. Understood. So we, we're losing that great experience. Understand. Um,

135. 0:42:02

     I think I had you lined up first, Represen- uh, Vice Chairman Franklin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So, and thank you for bringing this bill. I really appreciate it, especially hearing your opening remarks. That was really, um-

136. 0:42:15

     That was really good. I, a lot of what you said I didn't know, to be honest with you. So, and it, it, it makes me intrigued to learn a little bit more. But, um, y- you know, just to give you a little bit of background on me, I, I used to be a ship's captain in my previous life, and we had to take a, a class called the SECW to serve on the ship, and we had to learn how to put out a fire. And, um, I went through a brief training. I would not say I'm anywhere near, uh, have the training that a fi- a regular firefighter does. But it gave me such a, a deep respect for it, because they put us in a box and lit us on fire, basically, and it was unbelievable.

137. 0:42:46

     I couldn't imagine, uh, going through the training, much less doing what you do every day. Um, the question I have, though, is not really with the first section of the bill, but, uh, just the, on section thir- uh, section three, um, I'm just curious, uh, um, lines 187 through, I guess, 190, if you could just explain to me a little bit about what, or go into detail about what that is with the 10% of total assets in a fund investment form of assets rated below investment grade. Um, can you explain a little bit about what that means and what that ...

138. 0:43:18

     Yeah.

139. 0:43:18

     I think that's prior-

140. 0:43:18

     I'm gonna go ahead and give it to Morgan even though I know the answer.

141. 0:43:21

     Okay.

142. 0:43:22

     Yeah. So, um, here in Georgia, uh, as far as I know, we're the only state that doesn't allow, uh, pension funds to invest in high-yield debt. It's called junk bonds, high-yield debt, uh, below investment grade. Um, and there are ... It's a, it's a fixed income product out there that we do not have access to. Uh, over the long, over the long haul, it, it generates a higher rate of return.

143. 0:43:54

     And, um, you know, currently we can, you know, outside of the, depending on what your alternatives, uh, allotment is, um, you can, you're pretty ... Outside of that, you pretty much have to go into public equities or investment grade, uh, bonds, and/or investment grade bonds. And, um, so I think if you look at the, the funds in the state, they're going to have a lot higher exposure to public equities to try to make up for the shortfall that the investment grade debt generates.

144. 0:44:27

     It just doesn't, doesn't generate enough to meet the required rate of return, so you use some mix in there. And, uh, frankly, public equity is a pretty risky, uh, it's a, it's a pretty risky investment. Uh, it, it fluctuates daily. I mean, we saw just over the last month how, how much it can, it can sway one way or the other. And, you know, I think historically we probably have a little bit more exposure to fixed income, investment grade fixed income, than a lot of the funds.

145. 0:45:00

     Um, you know, I think a lot of the funds here are gonna be close to 75, 80% in public equities and 20 to 25% in investment grade bonds. We're currently probably about 55% in public equities, about 10% in, um, in, a little less, probably 8% in alternatives. And then that, the rest of that, so I think that's about 30, 37% is in, is in fixed income.

146. 0:45:32

     And so what we would like to do is take a portion of that, uh, fixed income and put it into ... It is a riskier form of fixed income, but it's not as risky as the public equity. And, um, that, that's one reason for it. Uh, another reason, uh, in interna- uh, we, we've, we've struggled to, um, in international, uh, fixed income, uh, struggling sometimes to find products that are truly, uh, investment grade.

147. 0:46:05

     You can look at the product and they say investment grade, and that's the average of everything. Um, but if you look in the un- what's in it underlying, it's a hodgepodge. It's, it's a bunch of triple A, A, uh, investment grade is considered triple B and above. So it's got mostly that, but some of the other. And, uh, we're not comfortable going into a product that says average if we look into it and it's got a, a list of invest- investments that we wouldn't be able to do currently if we had a, sort of a separately managed account, uh, for us.

148. 0:46:40

     So, um, we, you know, I, I look at it sort of like real estate. We got the ability to do real estate seven or eight years ago. We still haven't done anything. If we did it, we would not do it right now. The, uh, there's certain times when fixed income is, uh, makes more sense, and that's when the spreads, um, the, the, the rates that it generates versus investment grade. When those spreads, uh, when those spreads widen, that's when you, you wanna be there. And currently they're, they're pretty tight.

149. 0:47:12

     So, uh, we don't have any immediate plans to, to go into it, but it's a- another, um, you know, another arrow in the quiver, I guess you would say. But, but that, that's really why, why we're asking for it. There's-

150. 0:47:26

     No, I, and I appreciate it. And do you have the ability to do any of it now or any percentage now or is it-

151. 0:47:31

     No one does.

152. 0:47:32

     Okay. So that'd be to just 10% now, that you don't have five or any percentage at this point?

153. 0:47:36

     No. Uh, we, we te- I, we technically do because, uh, you know, we do have some bonds that were purch- when they were purchased were investment grade, but may have, may have been downgraded. So you don't have to get rid of them and sell it, you know, take that. You can, you can hold it till, but you cannot purchase anything that's invest- uh, non-investment grade.

154. 0:47:58

     Thank you.

155. 0:48:01

     Number 17. Chairman Martin.

156. 0:48:03

     Thank, thanks, Chairman. Um, thank you, Senator. I mean, let me pr- preface this by saying I absolutely appreciate the firefighters. My days going back to local government, the, the firefighters and police officers in Alpharetta were near and dear to me. They still are. That said, I, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask some questions. The, the, it is- But based on my information, the, the fact that there's not a break in service here will, will kill the qualification of the plan according to IRS, and I can give you the, the document for that.

157. 0:48:35

     We can get around that. I mean, that, that's, that's a, a small hurdle, isn't it? But what I wanted you, first, I have to ask you this question, is the issue of, of the n- no break in service because some of these folks are working full-time at a city and they'd like to retire from this plan and start getting this plan, but if they break in service if they retire from the city of Alpharetta or the city of Roswell or Sandy Springs, that that would adversely impact them on their, their full-time job. I- is that a, is that an issue with the break in service?

158. 0:49:07

     Yeah. I mean, we didn't want the break in service for that exact purpose because if they leave for a year, they've also ... You have to keep up what's called continuing education credit hours or other things. So if they lost that whole year, they wouldn't have the ability to go access that without paying out of pocket and doing other things.

159. 0:49:21

     I understand. I mean, we, we could do-

160. 0:49:22

     Sure

161. 0:49:22

     ... the continuing education. My, my worry was, like, if you lost your spot on the truck at Alpharetta, i- is that what we're ... Is that some of what we're dealing with? And the answer it sounds like yes.

162. 0:49:31

     Yeah. Without a doubt.

163. 0:49:32

     Okay. Fair, fair, fair, fair enough.

164. 0:49:33

     Sure.

165. 0:49:33

     I ... That, that was just one other question. Okay. Get- getting back, and, and this was, I mean, respectfully, the vice chairman brought up this thing. This, this complicates this, and I think you might have been there when the, the firefighters, I believe, were, were the, the group that took on when I had alternative investments a few years ago, um, for another retirement system. They didn't want it, and you guys came forward, I believe, and wanted that for the bill and, and have done well with it.

166. 0:49:55

     Mm-hmm.

167. 0:49:55

     So, so I like that. The, the, gives me pause with the delve into the, the, um, the credit market-

168. 0:50:02

     Mm-hmm

169. 0:50:02

     ... um, what you referred to, your words not mine, junk bond market. Um, just this morning a large private equity firm in, in the debt area did a mark to market and marked down billions in their portfolio, 19%. They, they didn't tell anybody for years going by, and then they mark their portfolio down 19%. Now, I don't know if that's, that meant half of it was okay and the other half went down 38%, but I, I would just say we're, we're looking at two things here. You're, you're increasing the, the liability on the fund at $61 million, and at the same time you're looking for, for a more ...

170. 0:50:38

     Uh, I, I get it. You're trying to get some more return, and then I'm getting around to my question is, you know, which is most important to us here, is, is to, to move these things or to take this, you know, all at once? I would just caution you to be, be, be careful-

171. 0:50:53

     I understand

172. 0:50:54

     ... uh, of, of that. And then the next question and the, and the last one is with the break in service and the cost of, of the plan, are we trying to get people back to work? 'Cause this does two things. It changes the retirement age, and it, it gets rid of the, the break in service. That, that's a big, big bite at the apple.

173. 0:51:12

     Well, there was never a break in service before. When you were out, you're out. You're gone. So-

174. 0:51:15

     I understand that, but I mean, and, and we're trying to get away from that-

175. 0:51:18

     Sure

176. 0:51:18

     ... to get more people back.

177. 0:51:19

     Sure.

178. 0:51:19

     So which, which of those ... I mean, I don't think we can get past with the, the federal law on the break in service. Again, we can talk about what the length of that is, but there has to be a bonafide break in service. Um, but the, the, the, going back down to the year, you know, taking the, the retirement age down to ... I'm, I'm trying to ... Was that-

179. 0:51:42

     Well, it's, it's the math of, of when you get the magic number of 80. Uh, because 30 years of service on somebody's body, um, really doesn't matter whether they started at 80, or sorry, sorry, 20 or 30, 30 years of what we go through in those pictures and, and we're exposed to is still 30 years. Uh, so the goal is, is to give them a chance to see an end of retirement, to see that they'll be able to capture that and, and to either stay in the business, or if they're going to retire, then they come back and give more s- years of service if they, if they physically can still do that, which is what we're trying to do.

180. 0:52:13

     Um, you brought up a great point about alternative investments, uh, 'cause I wanna, um ... I remember that I actually helped pass it-

181. 0:52:18

     Mm-hmm

182. 0:52:19

     ... the first time, and nobody else wanted it.

183. 0:52:21

     Right.

184. 0:52:21

     In fact, I remember the pers- the people that fought us actually was the TRS if you remember. And even though it had nothing to do with the TRS, they were afraid if we did it in the firefighter pension fund, it would come to them. And they fought us for years until we finally passed it. It was so successful they said, "Well, well, can we do it too?" So I think what, uh, what I'm trying to say is, is in deference to Morgan and his board, I think that they have been constantly looking at ways to divor- diversify the portfolio of the pension fund just like all of us do, right? I don't have everything in the stock market.

185. 0:52:51

     I don't have everything in mutual funds. I got property. I've got businesses. I've got this. I've got that. We're, we're trying to broaden that base so at any given time if the stock market goes and does a 10% correction, uh, or if part of the bond market does better or worse, that we've got a balanced portfolio. And what they've done is they've looked out over the last 10, 20, 30 years and said that the total sum of this shows that, that history be- before us and ahead of us will bode well for the fund, and I really trust them as being experts to do that.

186. 0:53:21

     May I, uh, a- answer one part of your question? You had mentioned the, uh, private equity firm that had to write down a bunch of the debt that it held. I wanna just make a little distinction there. That would be considered private credit. That would not be a investment grade. Investment grade is marked, priced throughout the day, and you can know it in-

187. 0:53:44

     Oh

188. 0:53:44

     ... uh, yeah.

189. 0:53:45

     Duly, duly noted.

190. 0:53:46

     Yeah.

191. 0:53:46

     I just meant that-

192. 0:53:47

     Yeah

193. 0:53:47

     ... to the point, uh, the, the credit markets are not ... You, you mentioned in your statement, isn't it true that, that you'd rather be in, in these bonds because the, the stock market w- the equities market was dangerous. I was just making the point that the, the, the credit market is also, um, at risk, uh, and-

194. 0:54:01

     100%

195. 0:54:02

     ... that, that was all.

196. 0:54:02

     Historically less dangerous, but both can be dangerous, yes. Um, I, I will say one thing also. Until July, I think it was July 2024, Delta Airlines was considered junk bonds. So, um, there's-

197. 0:54:16

     There's good companies out there. So, um, you know, this isn't, this is an ask from our board on, on this bill. This and the, um, the, the, uh, special needs trust language in there were two asks. So, um, we don't want that. If that's a hold up, we'll, we're, we're happy to let that- It was a cau- and again- Yeah ... I, I compliment you on, on taking the alternative investment thing, um, a few years ago. Yeah. I, it was just you're br- bringing that all, all to bear. I just wanted to, to take everything in.

198. 0:54:47

     Yeah. You're not wrong. There, there's not, th- there's not magic out there. Um, the other thing I'll just ask here, 'cause we, we just had it over on the other side with the POAB and we're, we're working with those guys, is, uh, I believe you're funded with, uh, an insurance pre- p- a portion of the insurance premium tax. Is that correct? That is correct. And, and with that, um, this bill doesn't contemplate, uh, it... Well, let me just ask. Do your members pay the, their $25? 'Cause I'm, I'm told over on the, um, the, the local side, a lot of times that's a bonus that gets paid for by your local governments.

199. 0:55:21

     It, it- Does it- ... it's just different. Different. There's 400 depart- whatever, 400 departments. D- different places and different- Yeah. Okay. Probably 75 different ways of doing it. Yeah. Fair, fair enough, 'cause we have been approached with, "Hey," on the POAB, "Hey, we'd be interested in, you know, doing this with going from there," paying up a few dollars a month, you know, to, to help with it too. So that was just a question. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And that, that's a great question, uh, Chairman Martin. I, and I have encouraged all the fire departments, the local governments- Because it is a very small amount of money to pay for that, uh, in order to make sure that everyone is a part of the fund.

200. 0:55:53

     And it's a very small investment for them. Absolutely. Thank you. And, and Alpharetta does that. Yeah. Any other questions from the committee? I, I... One other. G- go ahead, Mr. Morris. I, I just want to say, you know, you, you'd brought up the potential tax implications and those obviously have to be, have to be looked at. Um, I think though, that this is, uh, as a supplementary plan, I think it's, uh, it's, it, it would be considered non- non-qualified. So in our conversation earlier, th- this is not a qualified plan.

201. 0:56:26

     Not a qualified. My concern, and I've, I've raised that with legislative council, is does a no break in service, does that trigger anything from a negative standpoint from, to either the plan or the participants? And that's what we're looking into. Yeah. Does your board have a position on this? They are neutral. So this is basically, a- as you all know, it's a benefit enhancement without any offsetting corresponding revenue. So, um, you know, th- this is a little beyond their purview.

202. 0:57:01

     They wouldn't, they, they, they get to make a benefit enhancement decision twice a year when it comes to, um, when it comes to issuing a co- granting a COLA or not granting a COLA. So, um, we are, um, in, in our funding policy, they will not grant a COLA if it puts the fund under 80% funded on both a fair market and actuarial basis.

203. 0:57:32

     As well, we have to be meeting our anu- annualized, uh, uh, uh, actuarially determined, um, contribution, our ADAC, and, and the employer contribution, which is the, the tax money. And, um, we're, we're, yes, we're not 100% funded, but that tax money is much higher than our ADAC. So at, it, what's been happening over the past few years, we have been granting COLAs, and anything over goes down to pay the, pay the liabilities, pay the members or, or, or give a COLA.

204. 0:58:09

     Um, so we've paid this down to where we're at, whatever, about 91%, uh, funded. And, uh, requiring, we only required a little over 40 million for the ADAC, and we got in last year 63.9 million. This thing ups the ADAC from, I think from 40 to 46 or 48. We're anticipating 67 million in, in, uh, insurance revenue.

205. 0:58:40

     So if that happens, there will still be more left over to pay, pay down that extra liability. I look at it this way. It's like we have a mortgage, right? And we're getting, we're getting real close to paying it off. Mm-hmm. And now we're kind of taking a little second mortgage, knowing that both myself and my spouse are working and feel good about our jobs, and we think we can pay it off. Yeah. Uh, but in, nothing is certain. Nothing is certain. But, um, but this would, this would likely, this would, uh, qualify.

206. 0:59:11

     It doesn't put us below 80% and still meeting our, our ADAC. So, uh, but this is not something the board would, would, um, would think of without being 100% funded, uh, as acting as fiduciaries to the fund. And so- And still being one with the RS. Yeah. If the, if the, if the fund- Yeah ... if the fund was 100% funded, your board would have a different position on this? If it was 101% or anything over 100, they, they would, you know,

207. 0:59:44

     probab- I would, we, we would just have to look at the cost and stuff like that. Okay. But if it's something that doesn't put you below 100%, um, and, and therefore... Like, like it's real world. It's affecting, uh, uh, affecting a, a couple of our, uh, board members who are active firefighters, one of whom's a chief. And, and the, the retention of firefighters and, and the lack thereof is, it's a real thing. It's, it's out there. I- Yeah ... I keep hearing that- Yeah ... very much, yes. Yeah. So, um- Including in Cherokee County as well.

208. 1:00:16

     Yeah. So, um, and- And Cobb ... and this would, I mean, this would-

209. 1:00:21

     it's another carrot to dangle. Um-

210. 1:00:23

     Sure

211. 1:00:23

     ... you know, not all these folks want to leave, um, but this may be the dis- difference between staying, staying six more months, a year later, longer, uh, or not. But, um, as it stands currently with the current, you know, I'll let you know right now, uh, you know, you're looking the, the, about whatever the study was based off of 2024 stuff, uh, which I think was we were around one point, 1.25 or something million, a billion 25, or 1.392, and currently we're around-

212. 1:00:59

     They probably don't need this much.

213. 1:00:59

     Okay. 1.5. We're, we, we have higher, we have higher numbers, so it, we're actually a little better off than maybe the, the study says, but not 100%.

214. 1:01:08

     I understand.

215. 1:01:09

     Sorry for the long-winded answer.

216. 1:01:10

     Uh, that's okay. I, I don't see any other questions from the committee. What I just wanted to mention is, I, I wanna, I wanna do something here. I really do. Um, what gives me pause is, I appreciate the Chairman Albers saying we wanna make it provide parity with, for example, the teachers. The no break in service is of concern to me. It's not because I don't wanna do this. What I don't wanna do is something systemic and technical that causes compliance and tax regulations on the pension fund that you don't want to have those kind of problems.

217. 1:01:44

     That's what I'm most concerned about. Um, the funding percentage going down from 81 to 78 roughly, not great, but Mr. Wurth, you and I have talked about how the assumed rate of return is about 5.75 versus you're achieving what, 7.5 right now?

218. 1:02:00

     Uh, well, it just depends what time period-

219. 1:02:03

     Sure

220. 1:02:03

     ... but certainly over, well over what, what our assumed rate of return is. Yeah.

221. 1:02:06

     Right. And that as well as the board is, is, I, your board is neutral out on this, as I understand it p- as of right now, correct?

222. 1:02:13

     They're, they're neutral. Um, and, um, so with the understanding, you know, that, uh, as fiduciaries, they're, they're gonna, you know, they're not gonna actively pursue this because, uh, you know, it's, as I said, it's outside their purview, their-

223. 1:02:30

     So-

224. 1:02:30

     ... their purview of benefits

225. 1:02:31

     ... what, what I, and, uh, we have one more question. Maybe more of a continuation of a question. What my, what, we actually wanna help, particularly in areas where it's hard to recruit and retain. What I see happening if we, if we c- let the con- status quo continue, I, I look at these fine gentlemen right here, what I see is a lot of institutional knowledge leaving.

226. 1:02:52

     Yeah.

227. 1:02:53

     That's what I see. Uh, and nobody wants that to happen. What I really don't want to happen is to do something to the plan where there's no break in service for a retirement plan. If it's a supplemental income plan, then l- that's, that, you know, let's have that conversation. Th- that's what I don't want to do, is do something systemic from a legal and financial standpoint that is very, very costly.

228. 1:03:15

     And Mr. Chairman, I believe we, we, we have dotted that I and crossed that T. This is a supplemental retirement plan. We're, we're pretty darn sure that there's no issue here, um, with that.

229. 1:03:25

     Okay. Chairman Martin.

230. 1:03:28

     I- IRS 401a and 414d differ, so we, we can look at that just to make sure. But w- what I wanted to ask is, in the bill on lines 440, 144 to, uh, 152, that's current law, it, it has the early retirement age, Senator.

231. 1:03:45

     Mm-hmm.

232. 1:03:45

     Right? And the, the factor, if we, 'cause I, I think your, your position is to move this, the, the, you, magic number 80 and 30. You could leave at 50. Do, does that contemplate changing those percentages or leaving those the same?

233. 1:04:00

     No. Uh, so sort of on the, on the n-

234. 1:04:02

     Well, I mean, yeah.

235. 1:04:02

     Oh.

236. 1:04:02

     You don't have to explain. I just-

237. 1:04:04

     Yeah.

238. 1:04:04

     That wouldn't necess- You're not talking about moving the retirees, you're just tr- trying to, to do the magic number age, right?

239. 1:04:08

     No, it's just magic numbers.

240. 1:04:09

     That was just a question-

241. 1:04:10

     Yeah

242. 1:04:10

     ... relative to, to those numbers of, of the ha- the less than full, uh, access to the money.

243. 1:04:17

     And, and assuming this bill moves forward and, and gets signed to the governor, uh, or signed by the governor, you know, the board will then set the specific things into motion-

244. 1:04:25

     Mm-hmm

245. 1:04:25

     ... for making this a reality. Uh, I really don't believe we- we're gonna have that concern with the IRS, but even if we did, they can put that into their rules in order to say how people can come and stay. So-

246. 1:04:34

     The Firefighters Pension Fund?

247. 1:04:36

     Correct. They can put their own rules into place for the people that are gonna be in it. This is the, uh, they're not gonna do anything that's gonna put somebody in, uh, in harm's way, and certainly not the fund itself.

248. 1:04:45

     Right.

249. 1:04:45

     That's, that's their jobs. Yeah.

250. 1:04:48

     Chairman Martin, does that finish your question?

251. 1:04:49

     Yes, sir.

252. 1:04:50

     Okay.

253. 1:04:50

     Thank you.

254. 1:04:52

     I did not have anybody signed up to speak on this. Does anybody want to speak? Yes, sir. If, nobody to sign up. If you don't mind just coming to the podium and state your name and, and, and your department.

255. 1:05:01

     Good afternoon. Thank you for this opportunity. My name is Mike Byrd. I am president of the Georgia State Firefighters Association, and I'm also fire chief for Spalding County Fire Department just south of us. And I've come to you to ask you to support this bill, and I'm gonna use my department as a prime example. Spalding County is a small, rural, up-and-coming department. We currently have 81 full-time slots, and I'm doing good to have 65 people on my current roster. We have hired 25. Of the 25, we have 11 that are completing rookie school. Retention is a significant problem for everybody in Georgia.

256. 1:05:35

     I have roughly about seven people hitting their 30-year mark this year. They're all currently waiting to see what happens in this room, because if this pension bill goes through, they will continue. And as the Firefighters Association, I have the opportunity of not just representing Spalding County. I represent the firefighter that's sitting in the City of Atlanta Fire Station as we speak, to a rural farmer who will leave his job to go fight fire when needed by his community. And when you look at this, especially if we start talking about the volunteers, if we push this through, we'll be able to give back to those that have been volunteering for 30 years.

257. 1:06:09

     They've given their time for 30 years and sacrificed a lot. It will give to them. It will allow us to retain that experience that I'm about to lose personally in my department. And yes, it will, you know, recruitment-wise, I believe it'll do a lot for that as well, but we need this. We need this desperately in the fire service because we're out in the schools. I have guys in career fairs out to Mizzou today. They don't want to do this job anymore. We laugh. We say, "What's, what is with the new generation?" Well, most of them haven't ever played outside in their lives, so becoming a firefighter is just not something they're thinking about.

258. 1:06:43

     So we are in crisis mode right now to keep firefighters. We're in a bigger crisis mode to find them. I'm 40 years in. I'm 40 years in, been doing this job, and I still have seven years left unless my department kicks me to the curb, and I'm not seeing the trend going any better right now. So we're doing everything we can, and we need your help to help keep that experience. And I currently have several metro department firefighters living in my community who have retired because their pension allowed them to age out that will come work for me if they're allowed.

259. 1:07:13

     So this will hit everything from rural Georgia volunteers to your big metropolitan departments. It will benefit us all. So I'm desperately asking for your support for this on behalf of the Georgia Fire Service. Thank you for your time. Thank you. Any questions for Mr. Byrd?

260. 1:07:29

     I, I had a question if, if you don't mind, sir. Uh-

261. 1:07:32

     Please, go right ahead.

262. 1:07:34

     I understand there's people that choose not to do it any, uh, any longer, and there might be, like, like Chairman Alvarez mentioned, uh, illnesses or injur- in- injuries and so forth. Can you give me an, uh... Of your workforce, you said you have 81 positions, 65 FTEs, thereabouts.

263. 1:07:50

     Approximately.

264. 1:07:50

     Of your 65 FTEs, what is the average amount of experience?

265. 1:07:54

     There, that's very scary, and I'm gonna give you... That's a great question.

266. 1:07:56

     That, that's where I was-

267. 1:07:57

     That's a great question.

268. 1:07:58

     I was, I was ho-

269. 1:07:58

     I was hoping you were-

270. 1:07:59

     I was hoping you're not gonna say that, but I was worried you might.

271. 1:08:01

     I'm g- I'm, I'm gonna paint a picture for you. I'm getting ready to do a lieutenant's promotion. That is a first-line supervisor. I have firefighters who have been doing the job three years that are gonna get promoted. Three years, because I have such a huge gap in service between the age of three years and 10 years. So in Spalding County, I have Station 5, which is on Hallandale Road. That lieutenant with one single firefighter could be by themselves for up to 12 minutes if a house fire comes in. So when you start looking at the inexperience that... And this is not just Spalding County.

272. 1:08:33

     This is a systemic problem all across the country and within the state. The experience level, we're hurting. We're hurting very much. Uh, it keeps me up at night knowing that I'm about to put a three-year-old, 22-year-old firefighter making a decision on the first minutes of a house fire.

273. 1:08:54

     Any questions for Mr. Byrd? Thank you, sir. Thank you for your service. No, thank you for your time, sir.

274. 1:08:59

     Thank you.

275. 1:09:03

     I'd like to speak.

276. 1:09:04

     Chairman McDonald.

277. 1:09:07

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today I'm, uh, retired firefighter McDonald of 27 years. Uh, did, uh, 23 with Forsyth County and the rest with Commerce Fire Department. The great thing about being a fireman is the camaraderie, the, the working together, relationships you build that I still have today, that, that while this bill's been in process, people have been calling me to, uh, from my hometown of Commerce, from Jefferson, from Forsyth. They want this. The, they know that, uh, firefighters are needed, uh, in all their communities.

278. 1:09:40

     As Georgia's changing, you heard the chief say, guys just aren't... You know, they're not cli- you know, kids aren't getting out and climbing trees and getting dirt in their hands and riding bikes down the street. Now they have electric bikes. They don't pedal anymore. So things are changing. And with firefighting, you know, fire doesn't change that much. The way the buildings are built, they change. But the, the process of fighting fire, we have to, uh, we, you know, we've had to, we've had to change because of construction change. And I look at this bill, uh, th- that when I was a firefighter in Forsyth County, I was on a shift worker program.

279. 1:10:15

     So I got the same pay as a fireman, but I didn't get the benefits. But I was able to go also do my own job at my personal business when I wasn't there. And we had a lot of Atlanta firemen, DeKalb firemen, Alpharetta firemen that would, would come up and work in Forsyth County and bring great experience to our communities, because it kept them from having to go out and cut grass, and climb, you know, cut trees, and do those, uh, other jobs outside when they could come there and use that experience in these communities. And what this bill does, it allows this experience to go.

280. 1:10:47

     A lot of people couldn't live in, in Atlanta. They couldn't afford to live there, so they lived in the Jeffersons, the Commerce, and they drove into Atlanta and Gwinnett to work. And, and now they, they've retired from, from the big cities, and they live in these communities, and they want, they want to work. They want to help their communities and give back. When, when they were leaving, going to help DeKalb and Atlanta, and coming back and sleeping in their, these small c- uh, rural communities, uh, they want to he- they, they want to give back now. And I think this bill gives them that opportunity to do that. Hey, I've lost 40-something pounds.

281. 1:11:18

     I'm almost back in the game. I think I could- You could put me on a truck today. I drove a hook and ladder truck for nine and a half years and climbed a 101-foot ladder every third day. And I was, I, you know, I was hoping the chairman would stay, 'cause he's lost a lot of weight. I bet he could put his pads back on and go play Georgia football. So, um, I really, I really support this bill. And, you know, the, there are firemen all around this state that, that need this. Uh, I was so glad to get my pension when I... I could have taken it at 50. Uh, I, I don't know all the amendments that have been put on this, but I could have taken mine at 50.

282. 1:11:51

     I waited to 55, uh, and I'm making about 840-something dollars a month on my pension. And I've never paid one dime into it because the communities that I lived in paid that for me. And it was great. It was a, it was an investment in me, 'cause I was a hell of a fireman, and loved, loved it. I support these guys, and, and I'd love to go back today if I could. So thank y'all for letting me speak.

283. 1:12:13

     Thank you, Chairman McDonald.

284. 1:12:15

     Uh, my House sponsor for the bill. Um-

285. 1:12:16

     Yes, it sounds like it.

286. 1:12:18

     I didn't need to ask the question.

287. 1:12:19

     I, I didn't need to ask the question. Um, let's continue the dialogue. I, I would very much like to do that in- in- including m- Mr. Worse, uh, I think this is an important issue. I think we have one more speaker. Sir, you want to go ahead?

288. 1:12:31

     So-

289. 1:12:32

     We're streaming, so yes. Ag- again, just speak into the microphone.

290. 1:12:35

     Uh, my name's Gary Clark. I'm a past president of, uh, Firefighters Association. Um, I'm actually the, uh, the author of the resolution that went before our body to have this bill brought to, um, our retirement board for consideration Um, and I'm a recipient of this. And this is, this is how it affects you because I'm a, I'm a retired firefighter. I did 29 years with the City of Gainesville, some of my colleagues here with us today. And when I say I'm, uh, grateful for the, the retirement, and this is how it affects me personally.

291. 1:13:08

     Um, as a 29-year veteran of the s- of the service in Gainesville, I wasn't old enough to meet the 55 rule. So when I left, I was at 30, uh, 29 years at 50, 50 years old. So I waited till I was 51 not to take such a hit. But even leaving and taking my retirement at 51, I took a 24% hit on my money because I have to wait till you're 55. I didn't wanna leave that money on the table, so I took the hit of the 24% to be able to draw my pension.

292. 1:13:43

     Now, by doing that, I was completely out of the fire service. I'm healthy, but I can't work anywhere. I can't go back and do contract work for any fire department in the state. I can't teach and draw any money from the state. I can't... All I can do is volunteer. I still serve on the GSAR team, if you're familiar with that. That's our Georgia Search and Rescue team through Gainesville. We were deployed to a, a, a hurricane that hit central Georgia not too long ago.

293. 1:14:14

     I spent two weeks on deployment and didn't draw a dime because I couldn't draw any money from the state associate, from any department, in order to be on that deployment. I spent two weeks on my time, my dime, free of charge. So that's how it's affecting me. I can't go back to, to doing any firefighter work whatsoever. I volunteer and I'm, you know, I'm grateful to be in the health that I'm in, be able to continue with the service in my community in Homer, Georgia. Uh, I still, I still an active firefighter up there.

294. 1:14:45

     And, uh, uh, this, this is something that's been needed for years. Um, and, uh, we, we fought this, this thing for eight, about seven or eight years, finally got it to this level, and we're just trying our best to get it across the finish line for every single firefighter in the state of Georgia. Thank y'all.

295. 1:15:02

     Thank you, Mr. Clark. Is, Chairman Alvarez, is that something, is this a, been a legislative proposal for seven or eight years, or is this an, something that's been talked about and then that led to the bill introduced last year?

296. 1:15:12

     Yeah, we've been working on this for several years. This is the first time that we've gotten it to this point of passing it through committee.

297. 1:15:18

     Okay. Thank you.

298. 1:15:18

     Uh, but it has become a, uh, an ongoing issue. And again, after we had done this for teachers and done this for law enforcement, um, we just need the parity. And, and certainly after COVID, when the amount of first responders we've had across the board has been so dramatically impacted, it's, it's gotten to crisis level now.

299. 1:15:36

     Okay. Any other questions to the committee? Thank you very much for being... Oh, we have one more. I'm sorry.

300. 1:15:44

     Well, mine, mine is not a question, but, um, I, I was just looking at some of the population determinants that are out there. And what we see is that the largest percentage of growth is in the 45 to 54 age group. So th- that means that there, there, there are more people in that age group, and there's less in the grou- age groups coming on, which we know the baby boomers are aging out. Um, but it also means that if we're gonna have firefighters, we've got f- we've got fewer young people to take on all of the jobs that are being done.

301. 1:16:21

     And we may have to hold on to some people and through some creative means s- to those jobs a little longer to, because we don't have the backfill. We don't have people on the bench. We don't have people, some of them even interested in the bench.

302. 1:16:35

     Representative, you're exactly right. You're doing two things. You're, you're, you're allowing those people to be there to help to train them and still be there during that gap, but you're also, it's a recruitment tool for those younger folks who say there's something there for me. Because even most local cities and counties that used to have retirement plans are all gone now. They're, they're very, very rare.

303. 1:16:56

     This is expensive, as you well know, but I mean, it may be a cost that we've got to figure out how to handle.

304. 1:17:01

     Well, no state tax dollars.

305. 1:17:03

     Right. But I mean, it's just-

306. 1:17:06

     Right

307. 1:17:06

     ... whether it's this or some other kind of job that we've got to do, it's, it's an expensive problem, but we need to be looking at those population numbers in everything we do. Thank you. Sorry for preaching.

308. 1:17:17

     No, no, not at all. It, there are tax dollars coming in from premium taxes coming in, um, from taxes being paid on premiums or premium policies. But I think what you're referring to, Chairman Alvarez, there's no supplemental state appropriations to shore up the plan, correct?

309. 1:17:34

     Correct, yes. We do not appropriate-

310. 1:17:35

     Okay

311. 1:17:35

     ... anything from the state.

312. 1:17:36

     Anything else from the committee? Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. Okay.

313. 1:17:46

     Last but not least, Senate Bill 261. Senator Harbin.

314. 1:17:53

     Mr-

315. 1:17:53

     Is he here?

316. 1:17:54

     He was. He had to step out to get to attend another meeting, and he asked-

317. 1:17:58

     Okay

318. 1:17:58

     ... if I could present the bill in his absence.

319. 1:18:02

     Very good. Let's give it a minute, Homer.

320. 1:18:15

     Go ahead, sir.

321. 1:18:17

     Thank you very much. Uh, just a little background. The, uh, Magistrate's Retirement Fund, in numbers, is a small retirement fund in, in the state. We have about 200 members. Um, our fund is valued about $56 million. We're over 150% funded, so extremely well-funded, and our board has taken a very conservative approach to investments, and they're very conservative by nature. Uh, the bill before you, Senate Bill 261 Does not ask for any state appropriations.

322. 1:18:53

     We don't receive any state appropriations. And we're not asking to raise any tack on fees to anyone. Simply, this bill is asking to make some internal changes within the retirement plan. Uh, these changes are supported by the Retirement Board and also the Council of Magistrate, uh, Judges of Georgia. Those changes include a change in the composition of the board itself. Currently, the law does not stipulate that a retired member of the fund be on the board.

323. 1:19:26

     We would like to change that and add a retired member of the fund to the board itself. Um, we're asking for an increase in dues to our members, and we have polled them, and they support this. The increase is a small increase. It goes from 3.42% to 4% of their salary or salary cap. Um, we, in conversations with the chairman, originally we had discussed an early retirement option, but we're, we are supportive of withdrawing that from the bill.

324. 1:20:04

     And our other changes include a change to the benefit multiplier from 4% to 5% and to increase the pension, uh, number of years served from a max of 20 years to 28 years. A number of our current active members are getting close to that 20-year number. They're realizing that they wanna stay on in their cur- current capacity, and this, this would help them in doing that. And Mr. Chairman, that completes the changes.

325. 1:20:36

     Thank you for that, Homer. I, I think, yes, I, um, I'll say to my friend from, uh, from Cobb County there, I, I actually spoke with Magistrate, uh, Judge, uh, Brendan Murphy, and he is supportive of this. He's, um, I, I... As you know, uh, Chairman Wilkerson, Brendan, um, is, I believe he's chair of the legislative committee for the magistrate court's pension fund. He is ironically at the pension fund retreat down at Jekyll right now.

326. 1:21:06

     He's probably watching this right now. Um, he is supportive of these changes. What, what they're most, uh, attuned about is not in regard to, not in regard to the retirement age, but they're most, uh, um, keen on is raising the benefit multiplier for up to 28 years. Now, that does... They're all, they're, there's give and takes here. They're, they're raising their dues, um, and they would be o- uh, amenable to not having a retirement age. But if to, well, Mr.

327. 1:21:37

     Bryson's standpoint, uh, if people are at 20 years and going over 20 years, they will receive more credit up to the 28 years for that additional service. I think as, um, I'll just mention this for the committee, uh, we're gonna be coming back with a committee sub. And, uh, to the committee, just keep in mind that this is probably not our last House Retirement Committee meeting this year. We'll probably have one Thursday. Um, I don't wanna go into Monday, but I might have to.

328. 1:22:09

     Um, I, so don't book anything for Thursday at 2:00. I will, I will just say that. Um,

329. 1:22:19

     we'll probably, uh, have some further discussions, um, because I know this is important to the magistrates. But there's a number of people, like you said, who are approaching that or maybe go over that 20-year mark-

330. 1:22:29

     Correct

331. 1:22:29

     ... this year or next year. And fiscal bills like this are going to be a two-year bill. So we're either gonna do it, or we're gonna punt until 2028, and, and maybe we do it or not do it then. Um, so I d- I wanted to stress a couple things to the committee. One, this, this fund, just like Mr. Bryson mentioned, it's 150, 147%-

332. 1:22:48

     Mm

333. 1:22:48

     ... funded per the, uh, actuarial investigation. Number two, the, the changes that I floated to Department of Audits and Counts would cost less than what these changes have cost, and these changes result in the fund being, uh, about 125% funded, 126%, is that right?

334. 1:23:06

     That, that'd be correct.

335. 1:23:07

     That sounds correct.

336. 1:23:08

     And the potential changes that I've floated to Department of Audits and Accounts would be even less costly, therefore, be even more over-funded on a committee substitute. But, um-

337. 1:23:22

     And we anticipate having that actuarial information back tomorrow.

338. 1:23:27

     I, I had spoken to Department of Audits and Accounts, that they were going to work on it quickly, so, and I appreciate that. And I also wanna say thank you to legislative council for working so quickly on this as well. So... Any questions from the committee? Your magistrates not lighting you up like your firefighters are?

339. 1:23:51

     Thursday is my wife's birthday, so you're getting me in trouble one way or another, Mr. Chairman.

340. 1:23:55

     Vice Chairman Franklin.

341. 1:23:57

     I, I just gotta, uh, pique my curiosity. Is there any fund that's funded more than 147%? Um-

342. 1:24:03

     Uh, that would be a question for legislative council.

343. 1:24:06

     I know. Yeah. I'm just, that's pretty, um, um, significant, right?

344. 1:24:09

     I'm affiliated with five retirement funds, and it's by far the, the, the most well-funded one that we have.

345. 1:24:15

     Great. Thank you, Homer. I don't see any further questions. Thank you, Mr. Bryson. We are adjourned.

346. 1:24:21

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank

347. 1:24:37

     you.