House Transportation Committee, April 1, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:13:22

   Okay. Just... Okay. Let's go ahead and get started here. I know there's a... The governor has a, an event here in a little bit. Some people will be coming in and out. But I wanna go ahead and get this meeting started, call our meeting to order. You know, we're not taking any action on this bill. This is really an informational meeting of a, um, policy that came out of the Senate l- last night. And we have the bill sponsors, the leader, Anavitarte, here to...

2. 0:13:53

   If he'll come to the main, and he'll explain what we're doing. And I think if I had to summarize it in one sentence, I was thinking about that walking over here, is we're trying to create an efficiency in transit. And, um, you know, our, our committee's large, and it covers all across the state, and many of us don't have anything to do with transit. We r- don't, will not even know some of the terminology, and that's why I thought it was very important that we get together with the senator and, and have other people here that can answer our questions as people come in and out.

3. 0:14:26

   But, uh, I appreciate, Senator, you were here late last night and here early in thought traffic coming in this morning. And, um, I hear the express lanes owe you and Josh a refund. Is that not true?

4. 0:14:41

   Yeah, maybe today. Usually they're- ... they're fantastic. Today was, uh, um, maybe the pricing was a little off, but, but I think it was just complete, just utter chaos whether you were on them or not.

5. 0:14:53

   Yeah.

6. 0:14:54

   So, um, but yeah, I mean, those express lanes are a lifesaver for, you know, millions of Georgians that drive up and down. Even some of our colleagues that, you know, I know drive up from where you live or even towards Dalton to this Capitol every morning, um, sometimes at 4:00, 5:00, 6:00 AM and before and after they open. So, um-

7. 0:15:12

   Yeah, I'm, I'm on them.

8. 0:15:14

   They're amazing.

9. 0:15:14

   If, if they're open, I'm on them, Senator. Okay. So we've got House Bill 297, and you got the latest copy and a floor amendment that he'll explain. But, uh, I'll turn it over to you and, um, look forward to hearing what you got to say.

10. 0:15:29

    Yeah, definitely. I appreciate this time, uh, to have this meeting, just kind of go over, and I'll just provide some commentary, and then we can just dive into questions or anything anybody wants to talk to, talk about. So basically, um, you know, this year we've taken on a lot of different economic policy tax relief. Um, and I know we've seen unprecedented investments in transportation, um, in the billions of dollars to support mobility and growth.

11. 0:16:00

    This bill is about making government work better. It streamlines more than 70 sections of state law and addresses duplicative, outdated, and overly broad powers that have spread across two separate, uh, transportation authorities. And if I briefly just show you, this is the, all the law and red lines and everything were literally taken out of Georgia statute. Um, and, you know, and I do recognize, and I've told, um, folks in my community, even some friends in the media, that, you know, a lot of this work went on for many years.

12. 0:16:39

    And as we know, when we sometimes pass a law, it could be gone overnight. Um, and that's what we're here to talk about. Um, and so in those 70 sections, um, across two separate transportation authorities, today we're specifically gonna talk about the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority and the ATL. Under current law, these authorities hold sweeping powers, powers to override local government, uh, land use and zoning decisions, power to withhold state funding from local governments, powers to pressure local communities to raise taxes, powers of eminent domain.

13. 0:17:23

    And I think if we, before today or last night or in the last several weeks, asked members of this general assembly, many of them have only been here maybe, uh, one term or two terms. Many of them probably don't even know that the Georgia Regional Transportation Authority has eminent domain powers, which is a pretty dangerous power, um, of any government, but more importantly, the state government. Even the ability to issue billions in state-backed bonds with very limited oversight.

14. 0:17:56

    Taken together, these are not minor authorities. These are the kinds of powers that allow government to act without sufficient accountability to the people it serves. And the record makes something clear, most importantly in this entire conversation, and I apologize, I think this mic's going in and out, um, that restraint matters. For years, governors of both parties have chosen not to use the full scope of these powers, saving taxpayers hundreds of millions of dollars. That tells us something important, that these authorities were granted powers far broader than what has ever, ever been necessary, and this bill right sizes that structure.

15. 0:18:36

    It consolidates GRTA and the ATL into a single entity that will be known as the Georgia Transportation Efficiency Authority with a clear mission, a modern structure, and real accountability. It reduces the size of the governing board by more than 70%, from 31 members down to 13, appointed by the governor, the lieutenant governor, and the speaker of the house, along with the commissioner of the Georgia Department of Transportation.

16. 0:19:08

    That means that fewer layers of bureaucracy, clearer lines of responsibility, and more transparency to the public. It eliminates unnecessary and dormant powers. Like the ability to impose air quality regulations, override local decisions, or withhold funding from communities and return those responsibilities to appropriate agencies or to local governments where they belong. And for those of you that remember or read Georgia history, I was, uh, probably a sophomore in college when GRETA was created.

17. 0:19:45

    And the entire reason GRETA was created, I think it's gone through four different versions or morphed into things, um, since the late '90s, was about Atlanta air quality. And if we talk about today why it exists, um, and I ask each of you just without knowing anything, air quality is probably not the thing that you would even, you would even bring up. Um, it modernizes how the authority operates, allowing virtual meetings, eliminating cumbersome election requirements, and so it can function efficiently in the 21st century.

18. 0:20:22

    But at the same time, this bill preserves what is working. It ensures continued oversight of the Atlanta Regional Commission's transportation spending, bringing transparency and accountability to billions of dollars in infrastructure investment. It maintains the state's role as the designated recipient of federal transit funds, ensuring continuity and compliance with federal law. It preserves the development of regional impact process, so major projects in a county can move forward with predictable timelines while still accounting for transportation impact, which I know is very important to a lot of communities, especially when you get to the city level and you get to the neighborhood level, um, in Metro Atlanta and beyond.

19. 0:21:09

    It also maintains existing transit services like the express buses. And as many of you know, when the express buses were created, the primary function of those buses were to help people get to and from work in Atlanta or to and from school in Atlanta. While adding new accountability measures requiring annual reporting on safety, performance, and customer satisfaction, I think that is important so that the taxpayers know and the state knows what do the citizens feel?

20. 0:21:39

    What are they experiencing? What do they like and what they don't like? And I think in all aspects of government, we should be doing that kind of work. Just as importantly, this legislation restores the proper balance between state and local control. Transit planning decisions are ler- returned to local governments, the communities that know their needs best. Any major new transit expansion that carries long-term tax consequences will still require voter approval. Under the current, under the current way business is done, um, under the ATL structure, counties can be, basically be dictated what is their tran- their transit and transportation future.

21. 0:22:19

    And this bill removes that and puts it back in the hands of commissioners and, most importantly, voters. So this is not anti-transit. This is pro-accountability and pro-local control. And for communities outside of Metro Atlanta, this bill creates an option, not a mandate, to participate in the new authority to access federal transit resources more efficiently while still requiring local buy-in and voter approval. Um, one of the things that we presented, um, in the bill, uh, last night was a few amendments.

22. 0:22:52

    I'm just gonna kinda walk through what that was, um, and then I'll come back to Mr. Chairman and the people I'm gonna cite the lines of where it's at. Um, so one of the things that we did on the floor, um, after we, um, passed this bill out of Senate Transportation was clarifying language, um, related to the new Georgia Transportation Efficiency Authority, um, and that it will n- it will not be a pass-through agency of federal funding for those communities outside of Atlanta, um, outside the jurisdiction of Metro Atlanta, which I think was important to keep autonomy for those local communities in how they pull down funding.

23. 0:23:32

    The amendments also added last night language that clarified the definition of the non-attainment area, which was used to define the 13-area ATL jurisdiction that will remain in place for Georgia T. For the record, Mr. Chairman, that's Cherokee, Clayton, Cobb, Coweta, DeKalb, Douglas, Fayette, Forsyth, Fulton, Gwinnett, Henry, Paulding County, and Rockdale County. We also changed the makeup of the board structure to ensure compliance with federal laws, and this is, was a really important piece, um, to make sure there was no disruption to projects.

24. 0:24:09

    Next year, Metro Atlanta is supposed to receive more than $750 million of Federal Highway Administration funds and also $200 million from the Federal Transit Administration in transit. In order to use those nearly $1 billion of funding, projects have to be included in ARC's short-range plan and then approved by the governor. For the past 23 years, Governors Perdue, Deal, and Kemp have delegated this federal approval authority to GRETA, a board m- basically made up of their 15 appointees with no representation from the general assembly.

25. 0:24:48

    If we get this board set up with a majority of governor appointees as was in the original bill that we had in Senate committee, the governor continued to delegate that federal approval authority to this agency. These amendments also maintain that the GDOT commissioner is a voting member of Georgia T. Overall, this bill reduces duplication, it eliminates unnecessary bureaucracy, it reins in overly broad and hidden powers that the public today doesn't even know about.

26. 0:25:22

    it strengthens accountability, and it ensures that transportation and investment planning in Georgia are done in a way that's efficient, transparent, and responsible to the people we represent. It preserves what works, fixes what doesn't, and positions our state for the next dec- several decades for continued growth and success. And with that, Mr. Chairman, I'll turn it back to you, um, to answer any questions.

27. 0:25:50

    Okay. I, I have a few, Senator, but I just, as, um, committee, I wanna make sure you know that when this bill was first brought up in Senate Transportation, um, we got to work on it, uh, with, uh, the okay of the senator, with Josh Waller, to make sure that, you know, there's a lot in ... I think when I, we talked about in our office in the last week, there's a lot of tentacles in this bill. There's a lot of moving parts, and we really needed somebody who understood all the tentacles and how they work together and how they could work better together.

28. 0:26:26

    And I just wanna just recognize Josh in being a unsung, invaluable hero in, uh, in doing this. I mean, we really needed him to, 'cause there's a lot to it. He's shaking his head.

29. 0:26:38

    There is-

30. 0:26:38

    I think Senator would agree.

31. 0:26:40

    Yeah. And Mr. Chairman, I, I do agree with that. There were a lot of folks involved in understanding this. Um, you know, I don't say lightly that literally we had to streamline 70 code sections. So that's not just dismantling 70 code sections, but that's also making sure that those 70 code sections actually o- you know, operate properly under the new structure. Making sure that things are realigned, redef- new definitions, you know, Georgia T added in places where, you know, whether it impacts MARTA or other things from a structure perspective.

32. 0:27:13

    It doesn't change their agency. Doesn't change their business model. Um, the only thing that we are literally changing is the ATL and completely dismantling GRTA.

33. 0:27:24

    And for members who have just came in, Senator, would you hold up the, what you're redlining, what you're taking out of the code. Right there. So we're removing a ton of information, and that's why we needed just to make sure. There's, there's little parts of all that that we needed to make sure that this new agency was effective, and I appreciate what he worked on that.

34. 0:27:48

    And Mr. Chairman, I, I do wanna just, just reiterate one more time, especially for folks that walked in the door, um, why that is important is to ensure there's not a disruption in federal funding. We know that there are projects, um, happening all over the state. Consequentially, there's a billion dollars that Georgia has been awarded, potentially even more. And so as we go through this process, we wanna recognize that with our federal partners, um, and local partners that, that those monies that are impacted, um, with this streamlining, that those monies stay intact.

35. 0:28:25

    Yeah.

36. 0:28:26

    Um, this doesn't, it doesn't disrupt planning, doesn't rep- uh, disrupt execution of projects, um, and, uh, to make sure that those things are, are intact.

37. 0:28:37

    Thank you. I'll get, I've got a few questions I'll have just to maybe spur some of y'all on, 'cause this is a lot. We don't know a lot about some of this. But, you know, when you look at transit occurs ac- all across our state. I know when we think about transit, we just think about Atlanta 'cause we're here and we see it, uh, even from my rural area. You know, how does this affect that? I mean, will it affect those communities that have transit currently, um, in their own special way?

38. 0:29:07

    Yeah. I mean, in their own special way, I mean, I, I think it, it protects the integrity of what they are doing in the 13 county attainment area. Um, there does have to be ballot initiatives, but outside the 13 counties, if you're in Savannah or you're in one of these other communities, um, you know, you work with your board of, board of commissioners. We know in m- most of the 159 counties, um, this is not gonna impact anything. I know a lot of counties, when we talk about transit, have, you know, transit related to aging populations and those kinds of things.

39. 0:29:39

    This does not disrupt or change, like what I have in Paulding County to help, you know, our, uh, most vulnerable, you know, populations of older residents, you know, use those tran- those transportation, um, segments that are built into, you know, our daily lives. Um, so I think as we think about, you know, just kind of where we're going, hopefully it provides more opportunities for counties outside of, of Atlanta to figure out ways to partner and collaborate to draw down some of that federal money, um, and, you know, take advantage of it if they have an innovative or maybe special project that maybe can, you know, create a different dynamic economically, um, for their local communities.

40. 0:30:22

    Thank you. Okay. I know there'll be some people who are, I'm gonna use, I don't mean the word in a negative sense, environmentalist, will look at, you know, GRTA's initial reason for being. Does this any way lessen the impact of what, um, it was done as our, our responsibility toward air pollution goes?

41. 0:30:42

    No. I mean, as it relates to, you know, what EPD, EPA, I mean, all the federal requirements, um, you know, to have an extra layer of state government to keep us, you know, protected or do something differently, it, it, it doesn't. I mean, I think as all leaders in the state, it, it comes down to personal responsibility and legislating and leading to address whatever those federal mandates are. The federal government, um, is broken. The federal government can't get out of its way nine out of 10 times during the day. Um, but I think if, and know that if there's gonna be regulatory action on our state, both Republicans and Democrats will, will address it.

42. 0:31:18

    The other thing that, you know, I know one of the things I heard last night, which is a complete, you know, misnomer is- You know, some people in counties, there's gonna be a disruption when it comes to transit planning. When we talk about, you know, walking trails and things like that, and hamstring. And, you know, for those of us that live in Paulding County or Bartow County or Coweta County, we do just as much trail planning and investment, maybe less investment 'cause we're smaller counties, just as Cobb and Fulton and DeKalb and Henry and Clayton.

43. 0:31:49

    Um, so I think, you know, we're all pretty equal in terms of making sure we're protecting land, we're finding ways to n- not disrupt the environment, to, you know, enhance or protect water, water quality. We wanna talk about the environment, Mr. Chairman, which I know has always been a major issue in Atlanta, um, as we talk about, you know, having capacity of water as we see more millions and millions of people moving to Metro Atlanta and other parts of the state. Um, but in no way does this, um, impact, I think, those efforts.

44. 0:32:19

    If anything, I th- think it empowers local counties and cities to do more on their own, but also forces them to have to collaborate with their neighboring counties and cities to solve problems and not leave it up to this regional board or, honestly, the state to kinda solve their problems. So I think if a citizen, you know, wants to run for office or they get with their local elected official to solve a problem, and maybe they do wanna have some sort of semblance of transit, then I think it opens the door for that conversation for that to happen. It doesn't take it away.

45. 0:32:50

    I mean, the GRTA board, I think, has something like 16 appointments by the governor. So any semblance that this is, you know, a state takeover or this is, you know, more greater powers to the state, I mean, that's actually preposterous because we're basically empowering citizens to have a ballot initiative or their local county commissioner to make the decision and not 16 people elected, you know, or appointed by the chief executive of the state.

46. 0:33:16

    That's right. Wouldn't you say, I think when I, when we first started talking about this and you learned about the powers that GRTA has, especially for eminent domain, that that's probably one of the most controversial roles that, that, that your red lining is taking away? And, uh, I think s- us as a general assembly likes seeing that taken away.

47. 0:33:36

    Yeah. I mean, I think in, in, in most cases if not all cases, um, no matter where you, you live in North Paulding or if I lived in my old community of Doraville, um, you know, people want their property protected. They want the rights to their community protected. And that's whether I'm a property owner along Buford Highway. And, you know, I'm probably one of the very few members, you know? Maybe somebody can fact check me and tell me how many members of the general assembly have actually grown up and lived next to a MARTA station.

48. 0:34:09

    I'm probably one of the few in existence. I lived, I think, grew up next to what was the second MARTA station or maybe the third in MARTA history. Um, so I've seen the good, the bad, the ugly. I've seen jobs come. I've seen crime come. I've seen MARTA police need to be supplemented with Doraville Police, you know, at, you know, mine and then John King, Chief John King's discretion. Um, you know, we lived through all of those decisions and the impacts of transit and transportation during the 1996 Olympics. I'm probably one of the few members of this general assembly that actually, you know, saw that.

49. 0:34:42

    I saw the implications of transit leaving a, a Centennial Olympic Park probably seven minutes after the bomb went off, um, to go back to Doraville, um, me and my classmates from Chamblee High School. Um, so we've seen whether it's for big events or to move people around or get people to work, or as, you know, downtown and Midtown Atlanta was burgeoning and growing. Um, I wish we could, you know, as I've told city leaders bring downtown back to life. That's another conversation for another day. Um, but all of these things that we're talking about today were happening when GRTA was born.

50. 0:35:16

    And fast-forwarding today where, you know, whether it's eminent domain, Mr. Chairman, or forced inactions by DOT or even DNR, um, and some sections of the code section, or there would be, I'd have to go and find it, um, buried deep in this packet of law, you know, quarter and half pennies for things in counties to spend that aren't even being used.

51. 0:35:40

    Yeah.

52. 0:35:40

    That, you know, was another tax on people, um, that we found tied to the ATL and tied to GRTA. Um, you know, it's, it's kinda some pretty scary stuff. So, um, I'm hoping this process, um, while, you know, some may say, "Well, you know, why are we doing it now? We didn't go through the whole process." Well, you know, I would, I would push back and say, "Is there ever a good time to do this?" And I think as, you know, we see, you know, taxpayers and people demanding more and accountability with their money and what's happening with government at all levels, I think this is just another example that, um, you know, no matter where you live you're not gonna get planning forced down your throat by the state.

53. 0:36:24

    We're already having to see some of those challenges, um, with property taxes and other things. And so I think taking this off the table to protect the taxpayer and cities and families and kids in the sense that, um, they can determine their own quality of life in their community. Whether like when I grew up, whether I grew up next to a MARTA station or not, it leaves us, it leaves it up to those neighborhoods to decide for themselves.

54. 0:36:47

    Sure. Thank you. Representative Smith has a question.

55. 0:36:53

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, couple of questions, Senator. We voted on a bill last night that made a timeframe of eight years, uh, that people can vote again on a transit project or whatever. Is that gonna affect this? Does that affect or not affect or what?

56. 0:37:09

    No, that has no impact on any of this legislation.

57. 0:37:12

    All right. And how about, uh, you know, we talk about trying to give it to the local control. In the amendment it says, "Eight individuals appointed by the governor." And then it goes on to tell somebody's appointed by two by the president of the Senate, two by the speaker. Had, was any thought given to maybe letting the local elected officials be those appointments because they're elected by the people?

58. 0:37:34

    So I think related to that, uh, representative, I mean, this is pushing power back to those commissioners. So if a county wants to determine that they wanna have transit in their county, they're gonna be the ultimate decider of what's gonna happen or not. Those commissioners also have the power whether they're going to put it on a ballot referendum or not for the people that they represent in their neighborhoods and in their communities. So ultimately, this board is gonna, um, basically make sure that this federal money that comes to Georgia gets, gets dished out equally and appropriately and transparently as to where it goes.

59. 0:38:12

    We get into transit conversations, whether, let's say I wanna build a, a heavy rail line between your house in rural Georgia and-

60. 0:38:20

    I'm good.

61. 0:38:20

    And ... Okay, I figured. Um, and somewhere else, your county commissioners will have the ultimate say of whether that happens. And if they do and you don't want it, guess what? You get to un-elect them. And so those powers don't change, um, whereas in, in this current situation, under the ATL board, me being in Paulding County, Georgia, you know, we're, we're subjected to whatever the ATL board wants to do. My pow- my, my county commissioners have less say. I'm, I live in the minority county in the district that represents Paulding County as it relates to those decisions.

62. 0:38:56

    So my commissioners have no say if ATL wanted to go through a series of transit planning and start running heavy rail to different parts of our part of Metro Atlanta. And I think that's the distinguishing difference between having this board as it's made up today and putting the power back into your commissioners' hands to make the decision that you want to do. And then you're able to as a legislator, partner with them to make that decision, so you make the best decision, um, that's in the best interest of the county, contemplating taxes, contemplating bonds, contemplating whether the county next door to you, whether it's Muskogee or somewhere else, you all wanna do a joint venture or partner.

63. 0:39:35

    And we've seen, especially kind of on the fringes of Metro Atlanta and p- probably between my house and your house, even some of these joint development authorities, county authorities, as we're talking about job creation and bringing in projects that put people to work. So even in those modes, there are ways to do this without having to subject it in this board that we're talking about on, from the amendment last night or the ATL board having to shove that down your throat. It gives you the power to do that in your own community as you see fit.

64. 0:40:03

    And I thought-

65. 0:40:03

    I thought-

66. 0:40:03

    I'll also ask Representative Smith, if you look at those on lines 22, 25, talking about the Senate appointments and the House appointments, I think if you're a community that's very invested in transit and wants to be a part of it, you would be wise to contact the governor's office and, you know, the House and Senate leaders to make sure you get your, um, interest shown in, in those appointments. I think that's generally what he's asking, too.

67. 0:40:30

    Yeah. No, I think that's right. That's a great question.

68. 0:40:33

    Okay. N-number 11, Mr. Holly.

69. 0:40:36

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Mr. Leader, um, I was, uh, as you can tell, not fortunate to be here in the beginning, though I've, uh, been watching your testimony since you began. Um, and I think that there might be, it might be wise to consider, um, that a lot of these implements that have actually been, um, a part of these three agencies who are particularly GRTA to ATL Regional Link, were actually fashioned, um, in a manner where home rule was respected, um, that it was maybe to a younger eye, um, who's able to see this.

70. 0:41:22

    Again, you mentioned that, um, that the persons with whom you spoke were only about one or two terms, uh, into their legislative understanding, that w- they were not there. Um, I remember when, um, former Representative Kevin Tanner, uh, was on our committee and how literally he was a champion of making sure that the projects, uh, under which were funded, uh, through these three agencies, that whether, uh, we were focusing on just transit, uh, he saw that as it being applied across the board, whether we're looking at, uh, port projects or, you know, uh, looking at if there's any way for inland ports, if there's, um, you know, development along freight lines, that the planning, um, for those agencies, uh, were well-maintained, um, especially, um, when Governor Kemp appointed, uh, Chris Tomlinson over those three agencies.

71. 0:42:29

    Um, so the problem, I guess I'm, I'm wondering, um, there's a number of things I'm asking, and so, uh, I don't mean to, um, to beat up on you by my questions. Um-

72. 0:42:40

    Uh, no offense taken ever.

73. 0:42:42

    You know, but, but a lot was said, um, about the uselessness of a lot of this language, and what I would like to proffer to you is that, um, the members that sit in front of you, those who are here and those who have, uh, since gone on to, uh, other purposes that God has provided, um, actually thought very carefully about the respect of home rule and the doctrine of locals being able to exercise a level of balance so that eminent domain was never exercised because, um, they're very careful about, um, exercising that responsibility so that it doesn't impede upon the progress.

74. 0:43:23

    My question to you, um, have you considered, um, how commissioners, uh, will have the power of the ballot referendum if they are limited, uh, from exercising that because of a eight-year moratorium on ballot referendums?

75. 0:43:41

    So thank you for the question, Representative, and I'm, I'm glad you invoked Chris Tomlinson's name. I actually, um, was one of his, uh, interns back in college. So I mean, I could tell stories about Chris. He's a phenomenal dude, and his leader-

76. 0:43:54

    Yeah, he's one of our brothers.

77. 0:43:55

    Yeah. I mean, his leadership to the state is, uh ... I mean, I, I could sit here for hours and give the guy props for everything he's done to the state.

78. 0:44:02

    Mm-hmm.

79. 0:44:03

    So I appreciate you for that. Um, yeah, I mean, I, I think it does empower locals. Um, I'm d- I'm glad we agree that, you know, eminent domain is probably not a necessary power. Um, and I think that's what we're saying today, is if it's not a necessary power, why do we need to keep it on the, the books? And I know those things were contemplated, um, several years ago, almost a decade ago, um, with great delib- deliberation. I know there was great discussion. Um, you know, even within my private life, I watched these discussions happen, um, you know, whether it was a member of the business community as these things were debated in places like Cobb County and others, um, or even in DeKalb County.

80. 0:44:43

    Um, but I think, you know, commissioners, you know, do have an opportunity to plan what they want for transit. Um, as it relates to the eight-year cap, um, you know, if people wanna keep, you know, putting things on the ballot to basically try and shove thing- things down the voters' throats that they don't want, um, you know, I, I think that's a, a stretch of, of powers. I mean, I think there has to be some sort of restraint to let people and communities decide and discuss, especially if there's been failed after failed after failed ballot initiative, um, of the same topic, um, to maybe take a step back and reevaluate what's happening.

81. 0:45:25

    So it doesn't diminish, um, the rights of the voters, of the citizens, 'cause they can exercise, as I was telling Representative Vance, they can exercise their right of what they want by electing or unelecting us, which they should do. Um, but also, too, when those ballot initiatives happen, um, they get to vote up and down whether they want it. It's just like in my county over the last year, we had a FLOS on the ballot. People have ... People maybe didn't know. Some people didn't like it. They didn't trust it. And they voted it down.

82. 0:45:55

    That's their God-given right. So I don't think we're, we're d- uh, diminishing anything in terms of, you know, home rule or counties. I think if anything, we are accelerating home rule in this, in this bill, um, to give the people more power, um, of the things that they do want and they don't want. Again, whether it's from your house to my house, um, and even over the history of what we've seen in Atlanta and the state related to transportation planning, transit planning, um, even, you know, I mean, the impacts of this on neighborhood planning.

83. 0:46:27

    Um, and I could, you know, tell the stories of the things that we contemplated back when I was a city councilman in durable. Um, and I gotta give, you know, Mayor Geerman props, one of my former constituents when I was on the city council in Durable, now mayor of Durable, um, to basically redevelop the city center that I grew up in, basically practically around the Durable Mar- Durable Marta station. And he is empowered to still do that and try and draw down matching funds, federal funds, and all those things to have a great quality of life, protect the businesses that he represents, um, and have more people wanna move to that city that, you know, is special to me.

84. 0:47:03

    So I think at the end of the day, Representative, this, this bill, um, I think does a significant, um, justice, I think, to the people, um, you know, to have some of that, reclaim some of that power, whether you're in inner city Atlanta or you're in rural Bartow County.

85. 0:47:20

    So, uh, and here's what I ... Because I'm asking about the eight-year cap. You said for the, these referendums fail. Well, they've actually passed, um, particularly if you're looking in the 13 county Atlanta Metro region, um, particularly when it comes to transportation SPLOST, those have actually been quite helpful. And I think if we recall that Atlanta was never in the factor for the FIFA World Cup eight years ago, but now look at us. We're gonna have to make sure that locals are having a strong say, and I think that's maintained by the agencies that are currently in existence.

86. 0:47:57

    It's one of the reasons why when we are invited into room 341 to be able to appoint members who by at least our legislative body, we're selecting those who we know have the fitness to make those determinations on the project. When you see that there's been a lack of eminent domain being exercised, it's because those persons who are sitting in that seat represent our interests, and that we know how dangerous that can be if it's used incorrectly. But again, it's why persons who are in those positions have been chosen by our body, because they understand that we also agree that that decision about taking land is not something that is to be done so, um, friv- frivolously.

87. 0:48:43

    So if they're not able to implement any ballot referendum to allow for the people to make decisions about how the money that they spend towards transportation improvements, if they're not allowed for that over from a eight-year time period, and a lot can occur in eight years, and your bill actually will take away that option, then how does that actually honor the amount of local control that my, um, member behind me, Representative Vance Smith, is able to-

88. 0:49:15

    Right. Well, Representative-

89. 0:49:16

    ... speak to?

90. 0:49:16

    Just to be clear, this bill has nothing to do with the eight years. I mean, I hear what you're saying.

91. 0:49:20

    It, it doesn't, but you know what I mean.

92. 0:49:21

    I, I hear what you're saying. Um, and I, and also too, I mean, I know you cited FIFA. I mean, I, I think FIFA was probably chosen to come to Atlanta for a multitude of reasons. I, I don't know that it was just because of transit. I think the transit system during FIFA is gonna get the ultimate test that it has ever had to see where, where we are going in terms of, um, a system. Just like I knew when, uh, Maynard Jackson and Andrew Young landed the 1996 Olympics, it wasn't just because we had a Marta station, but, but it was because of Hartsfield, it was because of the dynamics of the city, the cultural diverseness, and everything else that this city represented.

93. 0:49:55

    But ultimately, all the power of what the cit- of what the citizens want rely on the politicians that they elect at the ballot box and the decisions they make.

94. 0:50:05

    Mr. Chairman, um, I only have one last, if I may. Thank you, sir, for allowing it. Um, I think that when you're looking at this, and I appreciate the arguments that you've made, the unfortunate side is, is that I think, and, and I, and I apologize if, if this is a burden that you're carrying by sponsoring this bill. Um, I- I'm curious as to why transit projects, particularly with, I guess, with respect to rail, are being singled out because of the ATL's formation in terms of making these projects, uh, paramount to their orga- s- their, their agency.

95. 0:50:48

    Why are they singled out as having this, this separate, uh ... Singling them out is not the same for these other projects for highway support construction. Because the... What I fear is that... Or, or let me see. Not fear. God doesn't give us a spirit of fear. Um, what I am curious is that out of this section, people might see that the Senate leader is so focused on rearranging the lines, shifting, uh, local control from cities like Hiram to kind of much greater, uh, populaces in the county, and they can see that your position on this bill in terms of breaking up established entities that operate off of good home rule doctrines, that they're actually seeing a consolidation of power where only a few are able to make the decisions and the rest are left out.

96. 0:51:48

    But if you could, please answer the question as to why these transit projects are going to be only the focus and not so many of these other projects across the state that we already take into consideration.

97. 0:52:01

    Yeah. Well, Representative, I rep- I, I appreciate the question. And just to be clear, I, I don't carry anybody's burden. I don't carry another politician's burden, and I don't carry the burden of my party. So I just want to be very clear with you this, of why we're doing this, number one. Number two, um, I know you've singled out heavy rail. I don't know that I have singled out heavy rail in this discussion. Um, but unless you know something that I don't know, um, where the... Well, okay. Light rail, heavy rail, whatever.

98. 0:52:32

    Um, I mean, just talk about rail. Where, where the billions of dollars are, whether it's in local budgets, state budgets, rainy day fund, um, unless we're gonna dissolve a, a federal agency to pay for it, I, I don't know where that money comes from. Um, I don't know that the taxpayers wanna pay for that right now. Um, if you know something I don't know, let's get together offline and discuss it. Um, but I, I don't know. Yeah, I, I can't answer that. I think in terms of the broader transportation transit discussion, again, um, I, I know there's, you know, folks are gonna try and, you know, decorate this as to whatever's gonna fit the talking points.

99. 0:53:12

    But at the end of the day, the consolidation of power is going back to the counties and the cities and the community that they represent. Yes, there is a board that basically has to be created to be in federal compliance to basically make sure that this money gets spent and divvied out to all the counties and cities. But at the end of the day, whether a community wants to have transit or any of these projects in communities is up to the county commissioner and the community when they go to the ballot box.

100. 0:53:47

     Um, there is nothing in this bill that says differently. Um, I mean, we can put all the, again, descriptions and, and, and things that we wish this bu- bill could do, um, which I, I know people are gonna do, but that is not what this bill does.

101. 0:54:04

     Thank you. Representative Preisinger. You know-

102. 0:54:09

     Persinger.

103. 0:54:10

     Persinger. I just keep saying that. You need to hypnotize me someday.

104. 0:54:14

     Thank you, Chairman. And thank you, leader, for this bill. I, I just wanna clarify some of that discussion we just had 'cause I kept hearing TSPLOST and the, and the bill that we passed, the eight years and the TSPLOST. That bill we passed has nothing to do with TSPLOST. Our counties can pass TSPLOST. They currently have. They typically-

105. 0:54:31

     That's correct

106. 0:54:31

     ... renew every five years. The bill only addressed transit SPLOST.

107. 0:54:35

     Okay.

108. 0:54:35

     And if it failed on the ballot, it's eight years before. So let's make sure we get the distinction that-

109. 0:54:40

     Correct. That's correct

110. 0:54:40

     ... this bill gives access to TSPLOST, so. And, uh, one more, if I may. Do you see what, um, this bill's working toward is to empower our local MPOs that we currently have, I believe, 16 in the state to get their more direct access to their federal funding instead of it all being controlled through Metro Atlanta?

111. 0:54:58

     Yeah. I, I mean, I think this is to create greater fairness. I mean, I think, you know, in future weeks and months and years, you know, maybe it, it is a debate we should have about-

112. 0:55:09

     Of course

113. 0:55:09

     ... you know, are certain parts of the state getting what is their, quote-unquote, fair share. However this legislature wants to define their fair share. Um, I think this said, you know, whether you live in, you know, Peach County or you live in Columbus, you may not feel like you're getting your fair share of whatever it is you wanna build and invest in in your community, and you may feel like 13 counties of Metro Atlanta are getting everything. I think that, that is a real fair discussion that, that should happen. I don't know why we wouldn't at least have the discussion so the people in those communities can understand, or at least if they wanna go fight for a change, let them go do it.

114. 0:55:47

     Um, that's why we're all elected and why we're here. Um, but ultimately, by removing these enormous non-transparent gross powers, we can start going down that road of how do we, when it comes to transit planning or anything else, we talk about one state, one Georgia, and that's what this bill does.

115. 0:56:07

     Thank you for the bill.

116. 0:56:08

     Thank you.

117. 0:56:10

     Thank you, sir. Next up, Chairman Williamson.

118. 0:56:15

     Chairman.

119. 0:56:16

     Come on in.

120. 0:56:17

     The R.

121. 0:56:17

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Senator, I appreciate your, uh, work on this bill as well. I'm rather new to the discussion, but, uh, in particular appreciate your passion for the taxpayer. In kind of following up on what you were talking about, you were talking about Peach County, all of the counties in the state of Georgia, did it give you any pause for concern that th- this bill with the Senate amendment, we could conceivably have every single member of the, um, of the new c- of Georgia, uh, Transportation Efficiency Authority, every single member live within this 13 county non-attainment area?

122. 0:56:51

     Does that not give you a little pause for concern?

123. 0:56:54

     No, I mean, this, this isn't a situation where Georgia T can go into a county and tell them what to do.

124. 0:57:02

     But aren't, isn't, isn't it fair to say that taxpayers from all of the state are spending money, mm, but there's a potential that counties that are not within this 13 area, uh, non-attainment are- 13 county non-attainment area are, would have no representation on the board?

125. 0:57:19

     Well, I think one of the reasons why we did the amendment last night was to, to ensure and protect the integrity of how they draw down funds. So in their own forthright, they are protected. They do have a say, um, and in terms of Georgia T, it should not disrupt, whatever decision they make should not disrupt, like if you had that situation in Walton County or somewhere else, I'm just making that up, it, it should protect them from, I think, where you're going with this.

126. 0:57:50

     Just, just-

127. 0:57:51

     No, you're fine

128. 0:57:51

     ... one follow-up just for clarity purposes.

129. 0:57:54

     Yeah.

130. 0:57:54

     Walton County mind, uh, our taxpayer dollars are coming from Walton County and another 158 counties, but there's a potential the way this board is being potentially, uh, uh, uh, manned or stru- or, or served that every single member could be from the, uh, 13 county area. Would it might, not make more sense that, uh, for example, on, uh, two, two individuals appointed by the president of the Senate, it says at least one of whom, every time it says least one of whom, we o- we should consider maybe mandating it, at least a few of them be from the non-attainment areas.

131. 0:58:30

     Yeah, I mean, when we went through and drafted this bill, um, I don't know if DOT has any comments on that or anything like that, but I think the, the biggest thing we were trying to protect was federal, you know, how money was passed through down to communities. Um, and there was a distinction between the non-containment area and the rest of the state.

132. 0:58:51

     Thank you for your work on it.

133. 0:58:52

     Thank you, sir. Good questions.

134. 0:58:56

     And thank you, Chairman Williams. I think it'd be, just like I talked about, uh, Representative Smith's question too about the makeup of the board, it would, our role as representatives for the speakers to, to make sure one of them is not in that area. I think it, that's our role-

135. 0:59:14

     Yeah

136. 0:59:14

     ... to, to make sure that happens, to answer your question.

137. 0:59:17

     Okay.

138. 0:59:17

     Next up, Representative Cox.

139. 0:59:20

     Thank you, leader, for bringing this. Um, I'd like to go to page six and seven, lines 141 through roughly 158. I'm not gonna read it all. Um-

140. 0:59:31

     You wanna read, you should read. Yeah

141. 0:59:34

     ... I just want clarification. So

142. 0:59:39

     this Transportation Efficiency Authority will basically take over all indebtedness, contracts, cost of projects, and everything. Am I reading this correctly?

143. 0:59:50

     Correct.

144. 0:59:51

     Okay. And is there a review process on any of these contracts that currently exist, or are we just obligated to do so per how I'm reading this? 'Cause I'm not seeing any type of-

145. 1:00:04

     You're saying review processes, things are consolidated? Is that kinda-

146. 1:00:07

     We're-

147. 1:00:07

     Say your question again.

148. 1:00:09

     We're walking into, let's just say we're walking into bad debt or bad projects or, or, or some bad ideas. So we're going to just assume the responsibility for those said bonds and loans and contracts and cost of materials and overruns.

149. 1:00:26

     No, it's I think related to... Uh, okay, I see where you're going with this. Um, those checks and balances are, are in place and should remain in place as things transition in terms of it moving to this board that, you know, is gonna have oversight of what's going on with Georgia T. I mean, ultimately through, say you as a legislature, legislator, um, you know. I mean, all of those things should be transparent. I mean, questions should be able to be asked and answered and information provided to make sure those contracts are on target date, there's not overruns and things like that.

150. 1:01:04

     So I don't think it changes in terms of anything that this body should be able to request and demand in terms of as this is kinda consolidated down. In terms of, you're talking about current work going on or even future work or future projects.

151. 1:01:19

     A follow-up.

152. 1:01:20

     Sure.

153. 1:01:20

     So, so I, I think my concern is, is that, um, the unknown, uh, the transition period, and I think that that's gonna be critical 'cause ultimately if there's any, uh, significant dollars that are inherited by this new group, then that's gonna ultimately long-term fall upon us as a general assembly. I believe if there's a problem and there's a need, we're gonna have to somehow account for that through appropriations if that ever were to come to fruition 'cause ultimately that's who they would come knocking on if there's a problem.

154. 1:01:56

     Is that not correct?

155. 1:01:57

     Uh, not totally, not totally the case because this a, this new Georgia T, basically its primary function is gonna be just the recipient of federal funds.

156. 1:02:09

     Okay.

157. 1:02:13

     And as a pass through-

158. 1:02:14

     Pass through

159. 1:02:14

     ... is what I would say, you know. Next up, Chairman Thomas.

160. 1:02:20

     Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, Mr. Leaders. Good to see you. You too. Uh, I'll try to keep my questions short. Um, I'm gonna play devil's advocate here for a minute, too. Um, we're removing the Atlanta Authority's approval of transit SPLOST projects, um, their ability to award that money, um, and based off what I'm seeing here on line, what, 556, 557, correct? 'Cause they're, I mean, they're pretty much gone. Correct. That's correct. Okay. Um, I guess my question for you, and it's just more of a, have you thought about this, um, one thing about having a centralized authority is at least there's, you know, planning across the individual county lines or district lines, whatever that may be.

161. 1:03:03

     Um, are, has there been any concern that this is gonna create a patchwork of individual systems, transit systems that don't really work with one another, um, that don't commingle with one another? And if it has, great. If it hasn't, uh, has there been any con- or question about the Georgia Transit Efficiency Authority stepping in to provide some guidelines for inter, you know, call 'em, you know, inter, uh, municipality or intergovernmental, uh, transit systems? So I mean, I would personally make the argument, I mean, each, each and every member can, you know, I think, have their argument on this one, Representative Thomas.

162. 1:03:39

     But I think that was the originate, I mean, that was the original, I think, vision of the ATL. Right. Yeah. Whether that's taken place or not, as a resident of Paulding County and have done a lot of work in Cobb County, I think that's highly questionable. I mean, I would almost view that every ind- each system as it exists today is still in some ways kind of planning for their own future, um, almost independently of this ATL board and, and what's going on.

163. 1:04:09

     Um, I do think, you know, when it comes, it doesn't, it's never gonna preclude transit planning from one county to the next, but I think it removes the mandate that's currently in place that you have to plan if this said board tells you to plan. Yeah. And I, and I think that's- May clarify my question. I think- Go ahead. Go ahead, yeah ... I think we're going the, um, my question was more, you're correct, the, the ATL authority was a top-down style authority. What I'm saying is, is in this new construct, this would be more of a bottom-up style where they, the, the local governments that choose to, to want to engage with one another with, through the Georgia Transit Efficiency Authority have some type of avenue where there can be cross-coordination between the different entities.

164. 1:04:53

     I, I guess that's more, is there anything of that baked into what, what this new G- GTEA is gonna, uh, responsibilities? No, that leaves it up to each and every county. So like, for example, if Gwinnett County wanted to take on light rail, heavy rail, or anything like that and partner with MARTA to expand services or whatever, I mean, that would b- be between MARTA, the counties that are represented under MARTA, and then Gwinnett County. Okay. All right. Thank you. Thanks, Representative.

165. 1:05:21

     All right. Well, you have exhausted your questions. I can stay all day, Mr. Chairman. I know you've done, yeah, I know you've done a lot of research on this. And, um, before we finish, I just wanna make sure just a couple other little things. You know, we'll probably see this bill sometime tomorrow. So if there's any questions you have, you know, 'cause you're gonna be the more knowledgeable people in the room tomorrow to answer any questions. Please come to me. I know the senator bill will be available.

166. 1:05:54

     You know, Josh Waller will be around to answer questions. Um, I just wanted to ask Josh, is there anything you'd like to add to this?

167. 1:06:05

     I can't in good conscious, conscience sit there and, uh, listen to you talk about the, the effort that went into this and not think about Jenna. Oh, yeah. Because it dawned on me- Oh ... that we talk about, um, people's effort. You know, at Title 32 in every bill that comes through, people who are on one side of the issue or on the other. Mm-hmm. She has to be the guardian of that. She has to compartmentalize that. She has to pull that all together. And on something like this where there's been a lot of moving tar- targets, the unsung heroes, I just wanna commend Jenna.

168. 1:06:39

     It's the only thing I'd add, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir. Thank you.

169. 1:06:46

     And thank you, Mr. Chairman, for, for a good session, the committee for a good session. We appreciate all your work. Since this might be our last chance in here, I just wanna say thank you to each and every one of you. Well, thank you. Uh, like I said at the very beginning, Josh, I appreciate your, your steadfast sitting in our office. He's been there for a week and, uh, working on this, and I appreciate that. And it's true, this is probably, you know, Senator, probably one of the last meetings in one of these meeting rooms that's going on. It, it will be over in the new building. And I think Lauren was over there today taking a tour, as many others.

170. 1:07:19

     Also want to add, you know, we talked about the study committee that'll be up for, um, we'll look at it tomorrow also, that's Lauren and I have. But also, we'll do one internally on electric vehicle funding, uh, that I'll get some of y'all together. We're gonna have to get with, um, Revenue and Ag and kind of get together and talk about some different options of pushing forward, making sure that we're getting our dollars on the sale of electricity, 'cause we're not yet. And so, you know, we're gonna work on that.

171. 1:07:50

     So does anybody else have any questions for the senator? Okay, hearing that, Lauren, did you have anything you wanted to add? No, sir. Okay. Well, thank you very much, committee. You know, uh, who's downstairs? Who are we having lunch with today? Rural Caucus. Rural Caucus. Rural Caucus, and I think they're having fried fish and all kinds of good stuff like that. So let's make sure we head down there and take part in that. But committee, thank you, and thank you for being a great group of folks that are not afraid to ask questions. I appreciate it. This meeting's adjourned. Mr. Chair, will these chairs be coming with us in the new building?

172. 1:08:22

     If you want one of these, if you want one of these chairs, we can see that you'll get one cheaper than the one you got. We'll get it cheaper than the one at the house.

173. 1:09:01

     $750. Yeah.