House Higher Education Committee, February 4, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:15:27

   Hey,

2. 0:15:51

   if we'll s- sort of settle in here, um, Mr. Green, if you wanna go ahead and get toward the, the podium over there, we'll give just a second here, um, and we'll move forward. We, we have a House bill, uh, just as some housekeeping before I get us into order here. Um, we have House Bill 1064 that we'll hear shortly. The, uh, author of the bill, um, is gonna be a little delayed, so we're going to, uh, go to Mr. Chris Green and, uh, have him give us a presentation from Student Finance. Um, so with that, I'll go ahead and call this as, uh, the H- House Higher Education Committee meeting.

3. 0:16:29

   I'll go ahead and call that, uh, call this meeting to order for the first time of the 2026 session. Uh, welcome everyone, and, uh, um, we'll get, we'll get right to our agenda. I, I did, uh, I will welcome... I don't know that we have, uh, run into you, Mr. Green, in your new role. Is that correct? Uh, uh, have, have we... Is this the first time?

4. 0:16:52

   First time.

5. 0:16:53

   Fir- first time, so, you know, w- while we, we are under a, a time constraint, if the members would like to take any opportunity to haze Mr. Green accordingly, um, then, uh, that would not be out of order. I would not be encouraging that in any way, but I would just tell you that would not be out of order. No, we- welcome aboard. Uh, again, thank you to everyone for being here. We're gonna take a, a moment here and have Mr. Green tell us about, um, uh, his, uh, group over there, and then we'll get to House Bill, uh, 1064. There is a sign-up sheet on the front table if you'd like to speak, uh, speak to House Bill 1064.

6. 0:17:28

   With that, Mr. Green, you have the floor.

7. 0:17:31

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, good afternoon, committee members, and thank you for the opportunity, uh, to provide an update this afternoon. Uh, my name is Chris Green. I'm honored to serve as president of the Student Finance Commission. I know all of you, uh, served with my predecessor, Lynn Riley, and so over the past year, we've been working to make sure that we continue, uh, the strong reputation of this agency. Let me begin by saying thank you for the resources that you entrust to us. Uh, a lot of my slides today will talk about the impact that the resources that you provide, uh, and how we've been able to share those with students to increase degree completion, uh, and make sure that our students are ready and prepared for the workforce.

8. 0:18:10

   You know, when I travel, uh, around our state and I say, "Well, I work for the Georgia Student Finance Commission," a lot of Georgians may or may not recognize our agency name, but when I say, "We administer the HOPE Scholarship," the reaction is always the same. They say, "Oh, I had the HOPE Scholarship. My child had the HOPE Scholarship." And they say, "Thank you for what you do to make college more affordable." Um, over the course of this session, uh, if there are bills dealing with student finance, you might encounter our other two entities. So I did just wanna briefly mention the Georgia Student Finance Authority and the Georgia Education Savings Authority, which are separate, uh, legal entities, but all, uh, report up through the Georgia Student Finance Commission.

9. 0:18:48

   Uh, committee members, if I could begin with just a few highlights that I think underscore, uh, the scale and the responsibility of our work. Uh, over the past year, we've continued to modernize our operations, uh, improve system performance, and strengthen our internal controls to ensure we are good stewards of the funds that you entrust to us. As you can see here, there continues to be strong growth in the dual enrollment program, uh, which exceeded 71,000 high school students taking more than 736,000 credit hours during the last academic year.

10. 0:19:19

    Uh, in October, we launched the third cycle of the Georgia Match direct admissions program. Uh, very proud of this program. I know this cha- this, uh, committee has championed that program, and so I'll include some more material on Georgia Match, uh, in just a moment. Uh, we, our outreach team conduct over, over 1,600 outreach events, reaching over 92,000 students. These are high school financial aid workshops. And then our one-stop shop, gafutures.org, attracted more than five million visits last year with over 230,000 new accounts created.

11. 0:19:53

    Um, and certainly we owe this more, uh, success to more than just our marketing efforts, but we partner with all of the public and private high schools in your districts to make this possible. And so nothing we could do, uh, is possible without those partnerships. Um, finally, uh, our Reach Georgia scholarship, which combines need-based aid with mentoring, academic coaching, and additional community support, exceeded 5,400 students served, uh, since the program was launched back in 2012 by Governor Deal. And of course, for each of these categories, there are numerous stories of li- lives changed and improved because of your investment and access to education.

12. 0:20:32

    Ladies and gentlemen, this slide represents the magnitude of what we're able to do with the resources that you entrust to us. So in the most recent fiscal year, GSFC dispersed more than $1.1 billion to Georgia students. Uh, these of course support a wide range of programs, including HOPE and Zell Miller scholarships, but also need-based grants and targeted workforce related initiatives. Uh, by far the largest portion, nearly a billion dollars, is for the lottery funded HOPE programs. And so my thanks to President Gretchen Corbin and the Georgia Lottery Corporation who makes that possible.

13. 0:21:06

    Uh, beyond the HOPE programs, you can see the commitment to dual enrollment, followed by the Tuition Equalization Grant, which goes to students that are pursuing studies at one of our independent colleges. The next largest slice goes to other programs such as the Inclusive Post-Secondary Education Grant or IPSE, as well as, uh, Scholarship for Engineering Education, Reach, the Public Service Memorial Grant, and others. Uh, Mr. Chairman, uh, the Georgia College Completion Grant, another item I know this committee has led on, uh, is next and helps eliminate the gap in aid for students, uh, that still have a gap in that, uh, meeting their educational costs.

14. 0:21:44

    And then the focused investment you all continue to have in our military programs include programs like the Georgia Military College State Service Scholarship, the Georgia National Guard Service Cancelable Loan, the Georgia HERO Scholarship, and the University of North Georgia Military Service Scholarship.

15. 0:22:03

    Committee members, uh, have been very fortunate to visit with so many of you about the Georgia Match program. Uh, this is the largest state-run direct admissions program in the country, and so really tra- transformative what the state has been able to do, uh, with making sure that our students know that there's a place for them, uh, in our talent pipeline. So with Georgia Match, eligible high school seniors receive a personalized letter from the governor telling them where they already meet the qualifications for admission. Uh, we target these letters during October so that students and families can maximize, uh, apply to college month in November.

16. 0:22:40

    And so for the class of 2026, just to give you an idea of how many students we're serving, over 136,000 students received one of these personalized letter. Um, the heat map on your screen shows, uh, where we're sending these letters, the light blue dots. Uh, the dark blue shows where a student took action. And so in the letter, we ask students to come to GA Futures and either, uh, take one of two actions: either request more information or to claim a spot. And every day, we're transmitting that data with our partners at the post-secondary institutions, and they are immediately following up and saying, "You know, we'd love to have you on our campus." And, uh, uh, the proof there is in the data.

17. 0:23:19

    USG enrollment over 4.8% over last year. TCSG enrollment growing by 7.1%. And, uh, this is especially, uh, powerful when you think about other higher ed institutions across the country who have experienced either declines or have remained flat. And so just can't say enough about our educational partners who have made this possible. The light blue is? Where we, uh, sent the letter, and then the, the dark blue is where we know they came to the website to take some kind of action.

18. 0:23:50

    What we do know too in focus groups with students is that they get the letter in the mail, and they don't have to come through the website. So a lot of times they're going straight to the institutions and enrolling anyway. Um, so however we get them there, we're really excited. Um, I did bring a copy of the letter. Uh, so you can see there the TCSG institutions, the USG institutions. There's a QR code. But then one of the things I'm most proud of is we're introducing financial literacy into this conversation and telling the student where they can come to learn more about how to, uh, pay for college as well.

19. 0:24:25

    Something I know, uh, over the last several years we've talked about, uh, governor has been, uh, talking often about the top state for talent, and if we're the top state for business, ma- needing to make sure that we're also the top state for talent. And so under the governor's leadership, uh, we are now collaborated to an unprecedented degree. So, uh, this is the group where that collaboration happens, uh, from the Department of Labor to the Department of Education and all of the partners who make the talent pipeline possible, so the Technical College System of Georgia, the University System of Georgia, the Office of Student Achievement, and the Georgia Student Finance Commission.

20. 0:25:02

    Um, because of our role in implementing the Georgia Match program, uh, we have an opportunity to represent students and their families in conversations about how to get them plugged into the state's workforce. And so, uh, the Governor's Workforce Summit this past October drew over 1,000 attendees representing business, government, uh, and educational leaders. And, uh, Mr. Chairman, I couldn't help but highlight some of our exceptional students, uh, who have experience with our programs. West Georgia Technical College student Reagan Bearden and Valdosta State University student Abigail Gilbert shared how the Georgia Match program, uh, helped them claim their spot and continue their journey, uh, in careers in healthcare.

21. 0:25:42

    Student Jeffrey Lowe studied at both Georgia Piedmont Technical College and Georgia State University as he prepares for a career in the music management business. And the HOPE Grant and HOPE Scholarship made college possible for him. Um, I want to say thank you again. Last year, you all supported House Bill 192, the Governor's Top State for Talent Act. One of the critical components of that bill is encouraging ninth graders to create a GA Futures account. So it lets us start this conversation even earlier, get them thinking about what comes after high school, whether it's, uh, military, the job, uh, post-secondary.

22. 0:26:17

    And, uh, although, uh, not under student finance, I did want to lend my voice to a recommendation you'll see in the amended budget for, uh, a career navigator under the Office of Student Achievement. And so as we think about providing personalized advice to students and even, uh, adult Georgians who want to return, retool, get ready for a different job, uh, really excited about the potential of this new career navigator.

23. 0:26:44

    Um, one of my favorite aspects of the work we get to do is our GSFC outreach team. And so these employees are stationed around the state. I like to think of them as our recruitment team. And so every day they are in high schools, uh, meeting with students and families and talking about planning for college. Um, and again, thank you to our high schools that invite us, uh, to participate in these, uh, colleges, community organizations. And if you all are ever hosting a, you know, college planning or, uh, economic development summit in, in your district, we'd love to partner with you and make sure that one of our experts is there to speak with your, uh, constituents as well.

24. 0:27:23

    Uh, you know, when I assumed this role last spring, one of the things I challenged my staff to think about was, um, how do we better serve students? How can we be known for customer service? And how can we move the needle on financial literacy? Um, with that billion dollars that you entrust to us, I think it's a critical part of our mission that we make sure that students have the resources to claim all the free aid that they're eligible for and, uh, make those smart financial decisions. And so this April across the country, we'll celebrate Financial Literacy Month, and we'll be, uh, unveiling some new and enhanced resources on GA Futures that I hope will help our K-12 partners, uh, plan for, uh, financial literacy conversations with their students.

25. 0:28:11

    Um, a topic that I know is very close to this committee, the Free Application for Federal Student Aid, or FAFSA. Um, and so that outreach team, one of the critical things we're doing is that FAFSA is still the gateway to free financial aid. And so helping students and families navigate completing the FAFSA, uh, we're very pleased that with our outreach and marketing efforts, we actually increased our FAFSA completion rate in FY25 and we continue to rank above the national average. Um, this is so important because for every FAFSA that students complete, uh, that represents additional dollars coming into Georgia at no cost to the state.

26. 0:28:49

    And, um, so that's, uh, just another example of how some of these targeted interventions can help leverage significant external resources. Uh, committee members, I know you all, uh, have led on this issue of a college completion grant and so I wanted to highlight, uh, this program in particular that you all have invested in recently. Uh, it's a maximum award amount of $2,500 and the program targets students who are nearing the end of their educational journey but need an additional, uh, financial boost to get across the finish line.

27. 0:29:21

    And so since you all started this program back in 2023, we've made more than 28,000 awards totaling more than $32 million. Um, and so thank you for the, your support of this program. Last year, you all passed House Bill 38, uh, which expanded the eligibility for this program, uh, to serve students who, uh, especially in our technical college system who are pursuing certificate and diploma programs and making sure that with these comple- completion thresholds, uh, we're able to meet students who have additional need.

28. 0:29:53

    Uh, in the most recent fiscal year, uh, 8,580 awards amounting to 9.9 million, uh, serving almost 8,000 completion grant recipients. Uh, grant awards are based on program requirements and available allocated funds at the institutions. And so one of the things we heard from you all and from our post-secondary partners is they certainly know these students best. And so with the appropriation that you all give to us, we actually do a campus allocation and then the financial aid offices determine which of their students have that unmet need and can deploy these resources, uh, to serve their students.

29. 0:30:32

    And, uh, Mr. Chairman, I did want to mention just the continued positive impact of this program. So in FY24, uh, 85% of those completion grant recipients earned their credential either in 2024 or 2025. Uh, to let you know what kind of credentials we were pursuing at USG, 94% of those cre- credentials were bachelor's degrees. Uh, similarly, 87% at the independent colleges were bachelor's degrees. And then TCSG credentials were more evenly spread across associate's diplomas and certificates.

30. 0:31:03

    But because of the legislation that you all passed last year, I expect if I'm invited to present again next year, you'll see, uh, a greater spread at TCSG. So, uh, they had 34% certificate, 21% diploma and 45% going towards associate degree seeking students.

31. 0:31:23

    Uh, I mentioned the Reach Georgia Scholarship. Uh, so this is another program, uh, that Georgia launched in 2012. It is a statewide need-based aid program, uh, created by Governor Deal. Uh, Reach is unique in that it's a public-private partnership and so, uh, state appropriations make up $9,000 of each $10,000 scholarship and then our local school system partners raise the remaining $1,000. Uh, students have to meet program requirements related to academic achievement, behavior, uh, and attendance to be eligible.

32. 0:31:54

    And so I know many of you give to support your local school systems and, uh, so thank you for your support. Uh, the picture there, uh, one of my other favorite things about this program is across the state in the fall they have, uh, commitment signing ceremonies. And so students everywhere are signing commitment papers just like a college athlete. And so it's really exciting, uh, to see students getting excited about these plans and the idea that they have a $10,000 scholarship waiting on them, uh, really powerful.

33. 0:32:23

    Uh, committee members, uh, you know, I mentioned that billion dollars you've entrusted for us and how that's allowed us to expand access to education for post-secondary, uh, students but, uh, I think because of our track record over the last 60 years of administering financial aid, uh, you all have also asked us to administer a new K-12 scholarship. And so the Promise Scholarship was launched back in 2024, or excuse me, the legislation was passed in 2024. Uh, you all gave us a year to build this new program, develop the infrastructure and so that we could begin making awards for the first time, uh, this past summer.

34. 0:32:57

    And so Georgia Promise Scholarship is an education savings account program, uh, for s- eligible families that want to enroll in private school or a participating, uh, or a course of home study. In FY26, the scholarship award amount is set at $6,500. In the first year of the program we have se- just over 7,700 students participating and I've had a lot of questions about, you know, our inaugural cohort and so, uh, wanted to share that of those 7,700, three out of four of those students come from families below 400% of the federal poverty line threshold.

35. 0:33:32

    And so we had a great fall semester, continue to learn from our experience with this new program and I also wanted to say, uh, thank you. You know, when you all were deliberating this program and authorizing the legislation, all of the funds that are dispersed to students are taking place in a secure closed marketplace. And so what I mean by that is, um, eligible private schools, uh, are participating in our marketplace as well as the approved, uh, curriculum that's in line with the statute and so our staff is reviewing items to make sure that only appropriate educational expenses are in that, uh, marketplace.

36. 0:34:09

    And so, uh, again, just another data point of how the first year has gone. Uh, o- 77% of these expenditures have been used for tuition and fees at eligible private schools, uh, 21% for other qualified education expe- expenses and then you can see there additionally, uh, professional tutoring and therapy. And so Mr. Chairman, that, uh, concludes my, uh, presentation. Be glad to answer any questions.

37. 0:34:34

    Well, I'm, I'm gonna do this. I, I have gotten word that they've pushed our committee meeting back 30 minutes, but they did not push another meeting that is a requirement for, um, some members of the majority caucus, um, from 2:00. So in, in order to do that, we're gonna, uh, ask your indulgence with us and, and invite you back next week for the questions. I know I had at least one here. But, uh, we have the author of the bill, we have people that came to speak on the bill. So if, um, or Senator Burnough, I know you, you had your light up. I'm gonna ask you to hold that, and we'll have Mr.

38. 0:35:05

    Greene come back next week or get with him offline here so that we don't have these folks in the room. I'm, I'm trying to, I'm trying to squeeze, um, 120 seconds out of every minute. So if, if you'll do that, we'll, we'll do that without objection. Um, Representative Rice, if you wanna come forward and tell us about, um, House Bill 1064, um, keeping in mind we're, we're, we're gonna try to squeeze 120 seconds out of every minute minute. No, we're gonna take the time on your bill when, when we do it, but I, I do want everybody to realize that, um, I've been pushed on, on the beginning and the end of this.

39. 0:35:41

    M- uh, Representative Rice.

40. 0:35:43

    Okay. Thank you, Chairman. Um, so I'm gonna give you a quick overview on this bill. So, uh, the classical, the classic learning test is a college ent- um, exam launched in 2015 by a former public school teacher and SAT prep company owner with a classic learning approach. Similar to other exams, the CLT assesses critical writing a- a- reading and math skills. It's unique among college entrance exam in that it's r- rooted in the liberal arts tradition.

41. 0:36:14

    So today, the CLT is accepted by more than 330 colleges and, and universities nationwide. The company also provides a third through eighth grade assessment, the CLT10, which is a pre-ACT/PSAT alternative combined, and the company administer more than 250,000 tests in 2024. So, um, and we'll kind of skip through 'cause I know we're short on time. Um, so House Bill 6, 1064 is, uh, simply an update in state education law to treat CLT the same way as SAT.

42. 0:36:52

    And I do wanna be very clear, um, that this is not in competition or to, um, usurp, as was quoted in the, um, in a publication today, uh, the ACT or SAT. It's not meant to do either of those. It's to provide students and colleges with choices. Um, I've also been in touch with the, uh, USG office, and, um, they are very open. In fact, they have a meeting coming up and, um, are looking at possibly allowing this as entrance, um, if colleges so choose, except for two of the major, uh, universities here in Georgia.

43. 0:37:29

    So that is, um, in the works. They're still working through that. And, uh, so again, the bill does not eliminate SAT or ACT. It simply adds CLT in an equal, and equally recognizes in the education system. So, um, going through the bill, um, the, the key changes, uh, uh, lines 11 through 15, um, touches on the, the school accountability, um, s- saying that schools can count CLT scores when measuring school achievement for state accountability purposes.

44. 0:38:04

    And, uh, lines 23 through 26 addresses the QBE, um, Act, uh, Georgia's goal of improving college admissions test scores, uh, now explicitly includes CLT, not just the ACT and SAT. So it, again, it's, it's an alternative. Um, it addresses the test prep courses in lines 31 through 38, and so many high schools offer these prep courses, and it just adds this to the list. Again, just, um, it, it's an option.

45. 0:38:38

    It's not a requirement, and it is something that, um, schools can choose to do or students choose to do. Um, dual role eligibility addresses that in lines 51 through 57. Uh, school spending waivers, that's lines 63 to 69. And homeschool student access if a local school system offers ACT, SAT, or CLT, uh, it just says they will p- uh, must make those tests available for homeschool students as well.

46. 0:39:09

    And then, um, finally it says, it addresses the HOPE and Zell Miller scholarships. It says CLT scores can be used to qualify a Zell Miller scholarship, um, if they meet the percentile or score thresholds of HOPE eligibility. So addressing the main concerns that I've heard is, um, it, it, uh... The security of the online test browser, I've heard that concern. In fact, the CLT uses a browser for its remotely proctored test, a lockdown browser, um, made by Responders, and this is the same program that's used by the University of Georgia.

47. 0:39:49

    Um, so, um, also concerns the metrics aren't comparable. I'll let our CLT representative that's here address that. And, um,

48. 0:40:00

    I'm just gonna say in summary, and most importantly, adding the CLT to the list of testing options in Georgia Code for Zell Miller and HOPE scholarships for all students, it's about giving students' parents more alternatives. So the CLT allows for a testing alternative, strengthens educational choice, recognizes de- the demands of various testing methods for our students in the university system and service companies. It recognizes literacy importance with longer reading coverages of passages, has longer, and their classical, um, e- Passages that have been around for a long time.

49. 0:40:34

    And a writing assessment, provides rigorous math assessments where calculators are not allowed, and additionally serves as a valuable tool to the classical school. So, um, with that, and I believe I skipped around because that bill number is LC610341, um, just to confirm. I'm glad to take questions, but I do have, um, a representative for CLT here, um, that also would be available for any questions.

50. 0:41:03

    Thank you, Representative. Um, I'll ask, I've got some lights, so do you guys wanna, um, ask the question now, or do you wanna have the, uh, you wanna wait for the further testimony? I'm happy to come, come to you for a question if, if it's of the author at this point, or do you wanna wait to get in more in depth?

51. 0:41:21

    I have a question.

52. 0:41:22

    Okay. Representative Burnough.

53. 0:41:27

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for your bill. Which two schools, uh, in Georgia, um, did you say they would not accept the score?

54. 0:41:35

    So it's currently going through the Board of Regents, and they are considering maybe the two, two of the, um, universities, but that's not been determined. That meeting's next week. Um, and that is just to give a little bit more time to assess the test and how it works in Georgia. But, um, they are certainly open. Um, our military academies are very interested. North Georgia Military School, um, has, has, um, expressed specific interest in it. And, uh, and it's been, been used in, um, other states very successfully.

55. 0:42:08

    So it's just offering this option in Georgia.

56. 0:42:10

    Okay. But it's not the University of Georgia and Georgia Tech, they're not taking it right now, are they?

57. 0:42:15

    Nobody's taking it right now.

58. 0:42:17

    Okay.

59. 0:42:17

    This is, this is all preemptive. And so this law, th- this bill is not to, um... It doesn't say that the universities are gonna take it or not take it. It is just putting code that this testing option is available, and it does say in there that it would be, um, it could be a metric to consider for HOPE and Zell Scholarship, which would particularly help homeschool students to have an additional testing option, and they certainly can, they can choose to do all three. But it's just, uh, it's just providing more choices.

60. 0:42:47

    Okay. So this is really just more for homeschool students, not just regular-

61. 0:42:50

    No, it, no, it's for, it's for all.

62. 0:42:52

    Okay.

63. 0:42:53

    But, uh, it's just, it, it allows, there's different learning styles and there's different ways to assess it, and the universities and colleges, they can decide if that's something that they want to. Um, so the, the results, and I would like for the, uh, representative to get to speak to some of those 'cause he's got some very good, um, data points that it just looks like, um... It, like I said, it's not competing with ACT or SAT. It's an additional option, and nothing has been offered in addition to that for, you know, a long time, so.

64. 0:43:25

    As, as a practical matter, I believe I'm sitting here, I'll look down to our attorney to this. As a practical matter, um, because of the constitutional separation between the legislature and the Board of Regents, what we do or don't do in this bill doesn't have any impact on what they will or won't accept for, for admissions.

65. 0:43:42

    Exactly.

66. 0:43:42

    This is more about, um, you know, should this count toward, you know, uh, achieving the HOPE Scholarship? Will we require, um, and, and quite frankly, as chair, I would suggest that we would work with Chairman Irwin over in education before we, um, you know, encourage or what, whatnot the K-12 folks. But, uh, I think it's here before us because primarily using the score to, uh, have access to merit-based scholarships. But, um, to, to be clear, the, the regents are separated from us constitutionally.

67. 0:44:14

    They now decide on their own if they're gonna require SAT scores or any kind of a board score, uh, for admission-

68. 0:44:21

    Okay

69. 0:44:21

    ... or, or not. Um, you have a couple more questions and then, and then we'll try to get to, uh, that. Uh, Dr. Clark.

70. 0:44:27

    Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, um, for presenting the bill. Um, I want to, um, talk really briefly about, um, line 123 and 124 of the bill, um, which, uh, covers who would be eligible, um, for, I believe, Zell Miller Scholarship. I hope, I think that's the right section. Um, and the Zell Miller Scholarship is one of our highest, uh, scholarships that we have in the state.

71. 0:44:59

    Um, it's pretty rigorous. It's not easy for everyone to get. And I noticed that, um, in the bill w- as written, it says that, um, uh, a CLT overall score of 86 is what, um, would make someone eligible. However, when I went to the CLT website, I went, I was, um, looking up some stuff and learning more about this test, um, they say that, uh, it is actually, uh, 90, greater than 90 would be considered highly competitive.

72. 0:45:29

    So is there a reason why this bill, um, considers a number or a score that is less than what CLT themselves considers highly competitive scores, uh, for admission when students taking the SAT or S- or ACT have to get a considerably high score to be eligible for?

73. 0:45:50

    So Mr. Chair, first of all, I, I wanna say thank you for, uh, making the point because I do wanna be very clear that nothing I'm presenting here, um, is, is go- getting into the regent's lane, and I wanna, uh, have, have utmost respect for them. I appreciate that. And to answer your question, Representative Clark, I appreciate your, your question. Uh, I have not seen that on the website, but I do have a representative here that could, that could answer that and knows the, the scores inside out, and I would like to defer that question to that, that person.

74. 0:46:19

    Thanks, ma'am.

75. 0:46:20

    Okay. All right. Um, well, let's keep going. Uh, a couple more quick questions. Um, Representative Barnes, do you have, have one?

76. 0:46:28

    Yeah.

77. 0:46:29

    You're, you're looking at me like that's not gonna be a quick question. No, go, go ahead, Representative. You're, you're, you asked one.

78. 0:46:34

    Um, thank you for presenting this bill. My question is if this is used to help determine how we're gonna distribute HOPE out, are we preparing the students for this test in schools? And like this test, um, we're ad- adding it to SAT and ACT, which are like peer reviewed and, uh, proven valid. Is this CLT peer reviewed and proven valid to measure our children's success to be giving them HOPE and not giving them HOPE?

79. 0:47:10

    So what I believe it does is we already, um, approved classical education, uh, schools, um, in our state as well, and so those students attend those. And so, um, if, if this is included in that list, it gives those students as well a chance. And, um, and my child who didn't attend a classical learning education I think would've done particularly well. One of my children would've done well on this classical learning test that has a, a writing piece and, um, extended literature, uh, a reading comprehension piece.

80. 0:47:43

    Uh, she would've done really well. I have another child that would not and would've chosen the SAT and ACT option. And I come to you today because I believe, um, that we should have a pathway for all students. And, and measuring their success and their capabilities and their potential can be done in more than one way.

81. 0:48:07

    Um, thank you. And, uh, Representative, we'll, we'll get down into more of that, I think maybe the, the specifics, um, of that and, um, Dr. Clark's question with the numbers. Uh, to the m- minority Whip, Representative Park.

82. 0:48:19

    Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you, Representative Rice, for the bill. Um, so COT is a private for-profit company, is that correct?

83. 0:48:28

    Um, I believe that's correct.

84. 0:48:30

    Whereas the ACT and the SAT, those are nonprofit companies, correct?

85. 0:48:35

    I, I'm not familiar with them.

86. 0:48:37

    I, I, I believe both the ACT and the SAT are nonprofit companies. Uh, but my question is, you know, is it not a departure from the conservative principle that the government should not be picking winners and losers in the private sector?

87. 0:48:50

    I'm sorry, can you ask that question again?

88. 0:48:52

    Is it, is, is mandating or including in state law a private company as a choice that could receive state taxpayer dollars, is that not this legislature then picking winners and losers in the private market?

89. 0:49:08

    I, I don't, I don't see it that way. We've had several other states that are already implementing and doing this as well, so, um, you know, and, and achieving good results from it. So I, I would lean into looking at just because something's always been done one way doesn't mean it will always be the best way. And so I believe in continuing the SAT and the ACT as, as measures, but adding another one on does not threaten that.

90. 0:49:38

    And I, and as far as the funding, I'm gonna let the representative-

91. 0:49:41

    Yeah, I'm, I'm gonna-

92. 0:49:42

    ... here handle that

93. 0:49:43

    ... I'm, I'm gon', I'll help the representative out. We're gon', we're get, we'll get into that, uh, if we can, we'll park it when we got more than the, the timeframe allow- I, I would just recommend that I, I think both the ACT and the SAT are private companies. They're-

94. 0:49:56

    Nonprofit

95. 0:49:56

    ... Th- they're nonprofit, but they're private. They're not run by government. Um, but you just said government versus... I, I don't, I'm not taking issue with what you're saying of winners and losers, but just a, as a point, they are private nonprofit companies. They are not run by the government unless somebody out there tells me differently. I c- you know. But, but I, I do, I do take your point. So that's good. And w- and one I, I assure you we'll get back to.

96. 0:50:18

    Thank you.

97. 0:50:20

    Uh, we have two more questions, and again, we have people that came to testify, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna give people the opportunity here. Uh, Representative Stinson.

98. 0:50:27

    All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Representative Rice, um, for your, for bringing this bill. Um, quick example. I'm aware of a state senator who has a family member that owns a school and-

99. 0:50:45

    Sorry, what? I'm sorry, repeat that

100. 0:50:46

     ... I'm giving you an example.

101. 0:50:48

     Okay.

102. 0:50:48

     Uh, I'm aware of a state senator whose family member has a school that educate individuals and help them g- uh, obtain their high school diploma. Uh, and so once they obtain their high school diploma, there's a big graduation ceremony, and they are able to go off to, in the world and do whatever they want.

103. 0:51:06

     Mm-hmm.

104. 0:51:06

     So if some of them decide they wanna go to Georgia Southwestern State University, that happens to be in my district-

105. 0:51:13

     Mm-hmm

106. 0:51:13

     ... um, how would this particular piece of legislation help those individuals?

107. 0:51:18

     Help the ones that did the homeschool route, is that what you're asking me?

108. 0:51:21

     No. She owns a school-

109. 0:51:23

     Mm-hmm

110. 0:51:23

     ... and, uh, and is helping individuals that, um, obtained their high school diploma from the non-traditional way.

111. 0:51:30

     Right.

112. 0:51:31

     And so once they graduate, if they wanna go to college, uh, how would this bill help them be able to-

113. 0:51:38

     It would absolutely help them, because-

114. 0:51:40

     That's what I need you to explain that to me

115. 0:51:41

     ... yes, yes. So, so if, if they are in that situation, and they can still choose to take ACT or SAT, but, um, by having this option, it, it would allow them to have multiple layers. So I, I'll, um, you know, in a moment full transparency, I have ... My kids have been homeschooled, they have public schooled, and they have private schooled. Not everyone has the ability or desire for, for different options. But I firmly believe in that every child have the option available that's best for them and the learning style that's best for them, and so, you know, if at all possible.

116. 0:52:21

     And I wanna champion that, and, um, and so-

117. 0:52:24

     R-

118. 0:52:24

     ... I think this is one way to do that.

119. 0:52:25

     Yeah. I'm g- I'm gonna, we g- we have to, I mean, it, we're, we're gonna lose, you know, our quorum and not be able to do this. We have one more question. Representative Gambill.

120. 0:52:35

     Yes, yes.

121. 0:52:35

     You wave? All right, he waves. I'm not gonna give you the opportunity to even close. We'll g- we're gonna have you back. I'm gonna go to the speakers if, if, if you don't object.

122. 0:52:43

     Okay.

123. 0:52:44

     If you'll let me work with that.

124. 0:52:45

     No, that sounds good. Thank you.

125. 0:52:46

     Do we have a list? All right, we have some folks here. Michael Torres, um, you're the Classic Learning Initiative. Uh, we, we have, we have six, but look, I know... Let me just apologize here. I, I got squeezed in between. We were supposed to have, uh, a lot longer than we had today. I'm squeezed, so I'm sure we always see things in this committee, uh, at least twice, uh, so you'll... We'll be able to invite you back. But we have six people on here. I'm gonna ask you to, um, Michael, keep it a c- couple minutes. We're gonna give everybody two minutes, try to keep you all on the clock, and my apologies, but I'm dealing the...

126. 0:53:20

     And, you know, playing the cards I was dealt.

127. 0:53:23

     Thank you very much.

128. 0:53:23

     You, you have the floor.

129. 0:53:24

     All right. Thank you very much, Chairman. Uh, Chairman Martin, Vice Chair, uh, Barrett, and members of the committee, thank you very much for the opportunity to testify in favor of House Bill 1064. Uh, I'm the policy director for Classic Learning Tests. Uh, the CLT is a fast-growing alternative to the SAT and ACT that was launched in 2015. Uh, when the other tests were rewritten in 2014, uh, many of the schools that our founder worked with as a college counselor didn't like the changes, uh, but they had no other alternative, so he made one. Um, he admits that while most people saw the need, the responses he received from friends and family, uh, were very negative.

130. 0:53:58

     Uh, most thought he would be crazy to compete with the College Board and the maker of the SAT and the ACT with their billions of dollars in cash. Uh, both have enjoyed a duopoly since Dwight Eisenhower was president. Uh, but he created CLT anyway, uh, with fewer than 100 students in the first testing cohort and only two colleges accepting the scores. The 10 years since our launch have proven that there is a desire for choice among admissions exams. We now partner with more than 330 colleges around the country, including the university systems of North Carolina, Florida, and Arkansas, the University of Oklahoma, University of New Mexico, the US Service Academies, and more.

131. 0:54:35

     And the number of students who choose CLT has grown from 25,000 just four years ago to nearly 200,000 last year, a majority of whom are public school students now. Florida, Louisiana, Wyoming, Arkansas, and Oklahoma have added CLT to their scholarship programs that are very similar to Zell Miller. And a key reason for this growth is because policymakers in several states have recognized that the SAT and ACT had been written into their state laws providing a government protection, uh, to entry and add, uh, and they acted to allow for competition.

132. 0:55:06

     And that is what 1064 does. It allows for choice and competition. So thank you for considering this bill.

133. 0:55:12

     Thank you.

134. 0:55:12

     Happy to answer any questions you all might have.

135. 0:55:14

     Well, we will get that opportunity at another time in order to let the other f-

136. 0:55:17

     Okay

137. 0:55:17

     ... folks speak. If, if... I, and again, my apologies.

138. 0:55:20

     Okay.

139. 0:55:20

     Uh, Stephanie Guillory.

140. 0:55:26

     You, you're welcome on the other, other spot. I can get a microphone to you. Yes, ma'am. You, you, you... Well, you were good up there as well, but... Now I'm confused. Ms. Guillory, you have the floor.

141. 0:55:38

     Chairman Martin, members, thank you for this opportunity to talk about House Bill 1046. My name is Stephanie Guillory. I'm the senior director of government relations for ACT. And before I begin, so I have prepared remarks. You each have a copy of those in your folders. I'm gonna fast-forward. I'd like to answer a couple of questions asked by Representative Clark and Representative Barnes. So Representative Clark, you asked why there would be a score for 86 for scholarship eligibility in the bill when you see a different score in different places.

142. 0:56:11

     You mentioned the CLT website. If you look in your packet that you received from ACT members, what you'll see as the last handout is the joint concordance table from ACT and SAT. This concordance table considers the data of over 580,000 students. And so w- when you look at this, you can take an ACT score from your, your student, your child, or someone in your district, and you can say, "Well, a 1080 on the SAT is a 21 on the ACT." That's gonna be the same anywhere that you look at it.

143. 0:56:46

     This is the data of over 580,000 students. So this is what does not exist for the CLT. And I have three examples in my prepared testimony that you have a copy of. I'll fast-forward, right, to Florida. So in 2023, the Florida Legislature enacted CLT scores into policy, and that allowed students an alternate graduation pathway. In 2025, the Florida Department of Education came back, and they increased that score because what they found is that it was not rigorous enough.

144. 0:57:19

     And so for those past two years that students had been taking the CLT, graduating, what they learned is that we need to come back and correct that mistake. So what's on the line here in Georgia if a CLT score is memorialized into statute is not only students graduating, it is potentially millions of dollars from the Zell Miller Scholarship Fund. I'll go back, and I wanna say that for over 60 years, ACT has been committed to helping students and workers succeed in college and the workplace.

145. 0:57:56

     And so because of that, we know that there are different pathways that students can take. Um, because of that, we welcome competition in the marketplace. But what we know is that any high-stakes assessment for a student, it has to have been proven, it has to be valid, and it has to be reliable. Otherwise, we are not preparing students. We're not putting them in a position to succeed. We're placing them in a position where they don't have the information they need in order to take on college debt or to waste these years right after high school when they-

146. 0:58:33

     To... If you can wind up for us, I'm j- gonna hold you to the same two minutes, please.

147. 0:58:37

     Okay. When they... Thank you when they could be earning experience in the workforce. The final thing, and I, I, I welcome questions because there are several things that we didn't get to get to. Representative Barnes, you also asked if, um, students are pre- will be prepared for the CLT. What I can tell you is that students are prepared for the ACT because the ACT is aligned to state standards, and the ACT is peer reviewed. Um, finally, I want to close with a quote from the CEO of CLT in the January 2026 article of Inside Higher Education.

148. 0:59:14

     Um, what he said is that, "CLT is a means of trying to get an ancient way of educating students, one that is less concerned with career readiness than with teaching them to be virtuous and to appreciate beauty." I'll compare that to what I think that many students want, what I think parents want-

149. 0:59:36

     Thank you

150. 0:59:36

     ... and what Governor Kemp said to you all in the State of the State.

151. 0:59:38

     And ma'am, I'm, I'm sorry, you're, you're over double your time. I'm gonna... We're, we're wa- a little bit wax and philosophical there. So we're, we're gonna invite you back. We'll let you talk some more, but I, I think it's only fair to, to keep you to the time.

152. 0:59:50

     Thank you very much.

153. 0:59:51

     Thank, thank you very much. Uh, Jared, am I right, Foxworth?

154. 0:59:55

     Correct.

155. 0:59:56

     Jared, please.

156. 1:00:03

     And nobody feels worse than me about having to rush you all. I know you came down here for this. I'm just squeezed between the, the start and the stop. Yes, sir.

157. 1:00:10

     All right. Well, uh, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to speak today, and I will be as brief as possible. But thank you as well for your time and your service to our s- to the people of our state. My name is Jared Foxworth, and I'm here today in support of expanding the list of a- approved assessments to include the CLT. I love the state of Georgia. I'm a grateful recipient of a classical Christian education in the state, and I later graduated from the University of Georgia, and I think UGA was easier to me because of my education.

158. 1:00:44

     And I'm also a grateful recipient of the Zell Miller Scholarship. I wish the CLT had been around when I was a student. But today, I serve as the head of school at a classical Christian school in Augusta, and we use the CLT to assess our students. From a practical standpoint, it is shorter, so it provi- it preserves valuable instructional time, but it does provide meaningful data for evaluating both student learning and teacher effectiveness. Classical education, I know it's been brought into question, but it is a time-tested model that is experiencing a strong resurgence in our country because many families believe, and I believe the data proves it true, that it offers a more rigorous education and a formational one as well.

159. 1:01:32

     It may not be for everyone, but we live in a nation that values freedom of choice in education, whether that's government school, private school, or home school. And I would love to see that freedom of choice extended to standardized testing as well. When one or two private companies dominate the testing landscape, that monopoly reduces healthy competition and often influences how schools teach and what curriculum they choose. And so we can all agree assessment choice does matter.

160. 1:02:03

     We would like our students, whether they pursue public education or private education, higher education, to have the option to choose a test that aligns with the, their curriculum and pedagogy. The CLT measures the same core skills colleges care about, but it does so through longer passages. The ACT and SAT have shortened their passages to about the length of a, of a tweet, and serious text and logical reasoning. From a school leader's perspective, I also want to emphasize that when the state limits which assessments count, schools might feel pressure to teach to a test even when that test does not align with their academic rigor and their standard.

161. 1:02:49

     Expanding ex- assessment options protects educational diversity while maintaining academic rigor. So this, as said previously, is not about replacing the SAT or the ACT. It's just about adding one more valid door for the people, the students, and the families of our state to walk through. So on behalf of our students, families, and many educators across the state of Georgia, I respectfully urge you to support this legislation. Thank you.

162. 1:03:19

     Thank you.

163. 1:03:23

     Is it Maureen?

164. 1:03:24

     I think it is.

165. 1:03:24

     Is it, am I reading this Maureen Foreman?

166. 1:03:26

     Yeah.

167. 1:03:27

     Yes, ma'am.

168. 1:03:30

     Okay, that was sort of a for and against that went over our two minutes, um, Ms. Foreman. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hold you a little closer to it. We've got two more speakers and...

169. 1:03:37

     You got it. I will, I will-

170. 1:03:38

     Minus six minutes.

171. 1:03:40

     I will-

172. 1:03:40

     Yes, ma'am

173. 1:03:40

     ... truncate my remarks. Uh, thank you very much for having me. Maureen Foreman, College Board Vice President of our SAT Suite Program and Information. Um, I'm here today to represent, uh, the SAT in comparison to this bill. My testimony focuses on three key areas where the CLT falls short of the standards set by the SAT and ACT. First, the absence of established, uh, independent predictability, concerns related to rigor and score comparability, and differences in test security and standardized administrations.

174. 1:04:11

     These concerns are particularly relevant as the committee considers House Bill 1064, which would place the CLT alongside long-established college admissions exams for statewide use. You guys have mentioned this already. Scholarships are a finite resource, and we have to hold students to the same standard for how they qualify for scholarships and access to opportunity. The SAT and ACT have been subject to decades of independent research demonstrating robust predictability for postsecondary performance, including first-year GPA and retention.

175. 1:04:42

     the Iowa Board of Regents evaluated whether the CLT should be used by the state's public universities, and it found no evidence to support the predictive efficacy of the CLT, and no evidence of peer, peer-reviewed journal ar- journal articles, uh, addressing relationship to student outcomes. All of this tells us that these are not the same. This is not an apples to apples comparison of where students are. It's not a standards-aligned assessment of student achievement across the state of Georgia. And it isn't about creating preference for how students qualify for opportunities in Georgia and beyond.

176. 1:05:19

     To say that the CLT, which is an assessment of different standards, is equal, is a real difference from what Georgia believes in. This House committee is about to also consider the Math Matters Act. That act, uh, intends to really look at, uh, the rigor of math in schools and how it aligns to Georgia's priorities. When we think about the Math Matters Act, which seeks to strengthen math, math instruction, expand access to advanced coursework, and improve student proficiency statewide, it's essential that any assessment used to signal readiness aligns with those objectives.

177. 1:05:58

     Unlike the CLT, the SAT and the ACT are proven standardized assessments of math standards and reinforces the state's efforts to raise academic standards for all students. Thank you for having me.

178. 1:06:10

     Thank you, Ms. Swan. Uh, Doug Dyer.

179. 1:06:20

     Maybe I should have made you all stand up and then, uh, but no, I'm just kidding. Go ahead. Yes, sir.

180. 1:06:24

     I like that. Arm wrestling.

181. 1:06:27

     Yes, sir. Please.

182. 1:06:28

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, uh, members of the Higher Education Committee. I'm, I'm here speaking on behalf of the 65 families, um, that are enrolled at Rivendell Academy in Columbus, Georgia, where I'm the head of school, and the many hundreds of families that are enrolled in classical schools, if not by this point, thousands of families across the state of Georgia as they continue to grow. And this bill is a really exciting one for us. It allows for a test that we administer to our students that aligns with our curriculum standards, which are set by accrediting agencies that Georgia already accepts, a pathway to a test that would allow them to compete on the same standard as everyone else, along with opening the same pathway for public school students and closing no pathways that are currently open.

183. 1:07:22

     The main point that I think has not been raised yet, that I want to bring aware to all of us, is that we just heard Mr. Green give a presentation a- and he talked about how this committee and the Georgia House and Georgia Senate recently have been promoting bills that do promote school choice, even the Georgia My Promise money, which is massive for families to pro- to, to pursue school choice, whether that's homeschooling or in a private school of various natures.

184. 1:07:55

     If we're giving them the money to pursue those education pathways inside the state of Georgia, but then closing down opportunities for them to compete for the scholarship money that would keep them at universities here in Georgia, I feel like that is a massive conflict for us. We're, we're promoting students to go to pathways outside of a pathway that leads to a university here in Georgia.

185. 1:08:26

     Because if families are not able to compete on the same par for Zell Miller and, and Hope Scholarships, they're going to leave this state and go to other universities in other states. So this will help keep more of the My Promise money, which is doing wonderful things in the university systems here in Georgia, which will continue to keep many across public and private schools of the most competitive young minds in the state.

186. 1:09:01

     Thank you all.

187. 1:09:01

     Thank you, Mr. Dyer. Um, Matt Baker, final speaker.

188. 1:09:19

     Mr. Chairman, uh, thank you for, uh, accommodating and, and making time work out. Committee members, I'm, uh, honored to be able to share with you and, uh, speak to you this afternoon. Uh, my name is Matt Baker. I am, uh, the head of school at Oakhill Classical School in Dacula, Georgia. We serve a student body from, uh, Gwinnett County, Barrow County, Hall County, and Jackson County are where our students come from. And it is a privilege to speak to you in favor of HB 1064, uh, this afternoon, which seeks to add the CLT to several areas of state law for it to be recognized, uh, with the Hope Scholarship and the Zell Miller.

189. 1:09:53

     Oakhill is approaching its 20th year, uh, being founded in t- fall 2006, that seeks to cultivate, uh, an education that is based on the liberal arts tradition. Uh, our aim is to produce scholars who read widely and well, who think deeply, act wisely, and communicate winsomely in the culture in which they live. We have been using the CLT in our school for seven years. Uh, the reason for using the CLT is it aligns with our educational philosophy, uh, testing verbal, uh, reasoning, grammar, and writing, and mathematics.

190. 1:10:25

     The CLT tests these critical, uh, components of intellectual formation, aligning with our aim of cultivating lifelong learners. In our school's life, the majority of our students have stayed in Georgia beyond their K-12 education, attending Georgia colleges and universities and entering the Georgia workforce. Uh, the opportunity to have students' CLT scores qualify for the great benefit that Georgia residents have the opportunity to in the Zell Miller and the Hope Scholarships is a tremendous one.

191. 1:10:56

     This would allow our students to use an assessment that aligns with the philosophy of education of which they have been formed to receive this tremendous Georgia opportunity, keeping great Georgia students in our great state for post K-12 education. As, uh, one college administrator has said that students, uh, of the CLT stripe are more often discerning readers capable of independent critical judgment and broadly conversant with the cultural legacy which has shaped the Western world for more than two millennia, end quote.

192. 1:11:31

     I would agree that the growth of the CLT to over, offering over 250,000 tests administered in 2024 and now more than 330 colleges and universities nationwide accepting it, shows its value as an academic aptitude assessments. Thank you for hearing my testimony.

193. 1:11:51

     Thank you, Mr. Baker. Um, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes our speakers, and I was supposed to, uh, conclude this about 28 minutes ago. So with, with that, I'm going to apologize once again to my, my audience and, and my members, um, for getting squeezed, um, in our meeting, meeting time. And, uh, to, to you, uh, Chairman Rice, I would normally go back and ask you to close, but I think you have to be in the same place that, uh, we are, we are supposed to be in. So I'm gonna tell you what, we will have you back next Wednesday, uh, and have a more, uh, full, full-throated and, and, uh, further discussion.

194. 1:12:28

     Uh, many times when we bring a, a bill back to this committee, we won't take testimony. Again, since it was so brief today for, for the, from a testimony, from a testimony standpoint, we will reset, and that would be as if it were the first hearing. So we will hear anybody on any subject on any, uh, portion of the bill. Um, my, my apologies again for, uh, going through this, uh, having to go through this so fast. Had I known we were gonna be squeezed, we would have just backed it up a week. But with that, if there's no objection and, and the, the committee will, uh, accept my apologies, I will thank you for your attendance, uh, and we'll stand adjourned without objection.

195. 1:13:05

     Hearing no objection, we're adjourned.