House Judiciary Juvenile Committee, February 4, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:14:40

   There we go. Good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen. I'm gonna go ahead and get this started. Uh, Chairman Camp might be a few minutes late, so she asked me to...

2. 0:14:50

   I just showed up and grabbed the mic. Um, so she asked me to go ahead and get this going, and we'll start, uh, presenting and, uh, we might have to have a short meeting depending on what comes next. But, uh, I would like to open us with prayer, if you would return thanks for all the will. Just a...

3. 0:15:12

   Heavenly Father, we thank you for this day. We thank you for the many blessings you bestowed upon us, especially the fact that you've given us a responsibility to engage in what is the most important work down here, which is the protection of children and the next generation. Thank you for allowing us to be here. Guide our decision. Let us always be thoughtful and kind to one another as we passionately debate today's agenda and all things going forward. Jesus' name I pray, amen.

4. 0:15:40

   So...

5. 0:15:44

   You, you don't have the right one?

6. 0:15:49

   We-

7. 0:15:49

   They have opened with prayers.

8. 0:15:58

   I heard that's what...

9. 0:15:59

   Yeah.

10. 0:16:00

    Do we not have the right chair?

11. 0:16:02

    I brought it with me in the folder or something, but, uh, maybe you have it at somebody else's office. Just-

12. 0:16:09

    I'm just... Okay.

13. 0:16:11

    There's the... There's this and the file.

14. 0:16:13

    Hi, I apologize for being late. I-

15. 0:16:16

    Okay.

16. 0:16:17

    Certainly appreciate Vice Chair Jenkins for starting the meeting. Um, if you'd like, you can go ahead... Let's, let's put you on pause. How about that for a moment? Um, and let's go on to the next, since we're waiting on copies, I know that's important for everyone to have a copy of the bill.

17. 0:16:33

    Let's hope. Oh.

18. 0:16:35

    All right.

19. 0:16:38

    She's got it.

20. 0:16:38

    Representative Rice, would you like to go ahead and start us out?

21. 0:16:42

    Here you go.

22. 0:16:43

    Thank you. Thank you.

23. 0:16:48

    Here we go. Thank you, Madam Chair. Um, so I am really honored to be here to present House Bill 434. This was Representative Mandi, um, Baller- um,

24. 0:17:04

    Ballinger's bill from last session. And, um, it is, um... We're just finishing the work that she started, and she's very committed, so it's my honor to bring that to you today. So, um, what this bill does is it moves the code from, uh, the juvenile code into the criminal code, and it'll a- it's adding language, um, that makes it an offense to sell a child for financial gain. So it includes definitions, penal- penalties, and possible limitations, such as how prosecution may proceed, along with statutory calls of action for affected parties.

25. 0:17:42

    Um, it's, it aligns with existing adoption law with a new offense. House Bill 434 redesignates and relocates relevant provisions from the adoption code into the criminal code. So in summary, what 434 does, it strengthens Georgia's legal tools against child trafficking and exploitive practices involving minors placed for financial gain by clearly defining and penalizing conduct for such law. And with that, I'll be happy to take any questions.

26. 0:18:15

    All right. Thank you so much, Representative Rice. And, um, uh, we are all appreciative. Um, Rep- Chair- Chairman Ballinger left several bills, um, that she had been working on last year, so I certainly appreciate your willingness to, to be involved in this one. All right. Um, I believe, is that you, Representative Oliver? All right. Representative Oliver, go ahead with your question.

27. 0:18:36

    Thank you. I am struggling to remember when the, we moved these code sections from here to there and there to here, and I'm struggling to remember what the purpose of this bill was last year in terms of, uh, Representative Ballinger. And I apologize for this because I've just been alerted to some of the adoption lawyers and their historical, um, participation in these code sections, and I'm a little nervous about what the exact history is, uh, as to why this came forward at this time.

28. 0:19:11

    Do you know who the proponent of this change was?

29. 0:19:14

    So, um, what I can tell you is my conversations with Representative Ballinger last year was she said that this code already existed but w- but the way prosecutors could go about... And you, this is your area much more than mine, I, I admit that. But she, she said that, uh, this was to make it in code so that when they prosecute, when, um... So it shouldn't affect the adoption process or adoption agencies that, you know, there are fees associated with adoption.

30. 0:19:46

    But, um, it, it allows prosecutors to, to ask for proof of the cost, like if the biological mother has costs, medical costs associated with. But the purpose of it is for, um, when it's necessary to prosecute for the selling of a child.

31. 0:20:05

    Did it have, was it initiated by the DA Association? That's, you know, that's specifically...

32. 0:20:12

    I, I ca- I can answer that for sure.

33. 0:20:14

    I can't, I can't remember either, and that's what makes me nervous, because I may have been a co-sponsor of this and I just don't remember the history.

34. 0:20:20

    Yes.

35. 0:20:20

    The, um, the reality is that, uh, selling a baby is illegal now.

36. 0:20:26

    Mm-hmm.

37. 0:20:26

    Uh, regardless of what code section it's in, it's illegal.

38. 0:20:30

    Right.

39. 0:20:30

    And, um, the affidavits about financial declarations and the adoption code and process is all fairly accepted provision of information. So I'm really just kind of being conservative here about trying to remember, which I can't-

40. 0:20:49

    Right

41. 0:20:49

    ... why we wanted this and who wanted this change.

42. 0:20:52

    And I did have a conversation with her at her desk about this, 'cause when I co-signed onto the bill, you know, and, and she explained that it was just a necessary development that, you know, in the code for the purpose as, um, as there has been a rise in the selling of children.

43. 0:21:08

    I don't know if that's true. Uh, babies in adoption area. I know that, uh, I don't know if it's true that babies are sold more often now in adoption. I know that there's trafficking-

44. 0:21:19

    Well-

45. 0:21:19

    ... but this is a different area.

46. 0:21:21

    Yeah, to clarify what I'm saying is, is because self tr- uh, sex trafficking has picked up in Georgia, that her purpose in bringing it was related to that.

47. 0:21:31

    And as a adoption lawyer for a lot of years, uh, I'm trying to figure out where that, uh, necessity comes from. I apologize, Madam Chair, if I had, uh... I just wish some of those adoption lawyer experts were here today, which they're not here today, am I right?

48. 0:21:50

    Um, but we certainly can discuss the bill, and if necessary, we can invite them to come back.

49. 0:21:54

    Have there been... Thank you. Let me just ask one other question, and I would, I would appreciate opportunity to think about this a little bit more. Has there been any prosecution in Georgia for selling a baby in the context of an adoption in the last five years?

50. 0:22:10

    That is something that I would want to look into before I answer that.

51. 0:22:14

    Well, certainly this is why we have committee hearings, so we can ask questions. And, um, certainly I would, if you could make notes maybe of some of those questions, whoever's making notes-

52. 0:22:24

    Mm-hmm

53. 0:22:24

    ... and, um, and let's find some, some answers to those questions. So thank you.

54. 0:22:27

    Thank you. This is a real important area, and the juvenile code moved this code section-

55. 0:22:31

    Mm-hmm

56. 0:22:31

    ... when it was reenacted from X to Y, and moving it from Y back to X is, um, I just wish I remembered all this more clearly in the last-

57. 0:22:42

    Yes, yes. And I wish I c- I could answer more. You have a lot more of the legal expertise. I know certainly Representative Ballinger could answer this very well-

58. 0:22:49

    Yeah

59. 0:22:49

    ... and I miss her being here.

60. 0:22:51

    Mm-hmm.

61. 0:22:51

    But, um, but yes, I'm willing to come back and let's, let's discuss this further.

62. 0:22:55

    Thank you, ma'am. Appreciate it very much.

63. 0:22:57

    Of course. Thank you. Um, Floor Leader Wade, go ahead with your question, please.

64. 0:23:01

    Thank you very much. Just, um, two, one comment and one question. Can we confirm which LC we're working off of? I just wanna make sure we're all just-

65. 0:23:10

    Yes, of course. Um-

66. 0:23:11

    Here we are, but I wanna make sure

67. 0:23:12

    ... Representative Jones?

68. 0:23:12

    I apologize. That is LC 481487S.

69. 0:23:17

    Thank you. And then I, I will say this. In my district when I was a school board member, we had a situation where it was an attempted fraudulent, um, adoption where they were trying to generate money, and I, I worked at a bank at the time. I think the statute of limitation's up, but I had to fill out affidavits on the documents that somebody was trying to do wire fraud to pretend to a- allow a family to adopt a foreign child, and it was, uh, related to that. And I remember there were hurdles because there was conflict within some federal law and the state law at the time.

70. 0:23:52

    I don't know if that had anything to do with what your concern is, but I'd love to have the answers to that as well, just so we're, there's clarity, so thank you.

71. 0:24:00

    I completely agree. Um-

72. 0:24:02

    And that was back in my young days.

73. 0:24:05

    Well- Well, of course. Um, one thing about Chairman Ballinger, um, that always struck me was she generally had a good reason for bringing something. So let's, let's find the why-

74. 0:24:16

    Mm-hmm

75. 0:24:16

    ... and, um, let's discuss it further. We certainly don't want to do anything to let, to, um, jeopardize any adoptions. Um, but on the, the flip side of it, if there's nefarious action taking place, we need to make sure that it is in the rights code. So yeah. Thank you.

76. 0:24:31

    Yes, yes. And thank you. I appreciate that. I mean, I'm very much an advocate for adoption, and as a adoptive mother myself, that's very, very important to me. And I just, um, I do have faith that there was, there's a reason that my, you know, the lack of legal experience, it, I don't have that piece of the puzzle, but I'm glad to get it, and we can come back to it.

77. 0:24:51

    Thank you so very much. Um, so we're gonna table this bill for now if, um, hopefully we can get all that resolved and discussed at our next meeting.

78. 0:24:58

    Okay.

79. 0:24:58

    Thank you.

80. 0:24:59

    Thank you.

81. 0:25:00

    All right. Um, let's see. Representative Cooper, are you ready to present? Great. Wonderful. And, um, certainly appreciate Representative Cooper. Uh, this bill is actually Chair Lady Silcox's bill, and, um, Chair Lady Cooper was kind enough to present it on her behalf.

82. 0:25:24

    Okay.

83. 0:25:24

    And go right ahead when you're ready, and just let us know what your LC number is, please.

84. 0:25:28

    Pardon?

85. 0:25:29

    I'm sorry. Just let us know what your LC number is, please.

86. 0:25:31

    Okay. Um, uh, thank you very much, Chairman. Um, this is the first time I've been to juvenile, uh, judiciary. I've been to a lot of judiciary meetings, but somehow I have missed this one, but have, had, had great affection and respect for Mandi. She was very concerned about children and what happened to our children in the state. Um, I am working off LC 520936. Deborah, I'm sorry she's not here. Apparently, her mother is extremely ill, and she has been fighting, uh, Alzheimer's, and I don't know any of the specifics, but that's the reason that...

87. 0:26:10

    And I'm glad that she put, is putting her family first, and I'm very glad to help her with this, uh, because autism is something that I have great concerns about also. You know, we have had a regional unofficial study, it was Region Twin, uh, Twin, 12 in our state, by a Dr. Zena, who's the expert on autism in our state, and it was 17% of the children from that region that she evaluated They were diagnosed with autism.

88. 0:26:45

    That is six times the national average. So something's going on, and we need to find out what is happening to our children. So we wanna make it official, and this establishes a five-year pilot project for the purpose of providing screening and clinical evaluations for autism spectrum disorders for children in foster care. Now, this is for children only in foster care.

89. 0:27:17

    We're having a problem in foster care. It's costing a whole lot more money, uh, because we're getting children that are exhibiting more severe symptoms, more mental illness. And what happens is many of the parents just ha- have reached their limit in being able to deal with them and make them wards of the state. And I truly believe it's n- not because they don't love their children, but when you have a children that is severely autistic or has a severe mental illness, the day-to-day care for them is just exhausting, and families do reach a point where they just feel like they're not making any headway in taking care of them, they can't handle them, and they become wards of the state.

90. 0:28:10

    So one of the things that Dr. Zina has found, and she is the expert, is that so many of the children that have autism have been misdiagnosed along the way. To-- So Dr. Zina developed a screening procedure. The first part of it, the first one, can be done by one of us or somebody off the street practically. It's so simple. But if there are indicators that there might be autism, they go to the next level, and that's done by a professional.

91. 0:28:45

    And if it also indicates that it looks like it's autism, that it's not just because they're hyperactive or that they're not schizophrenic or they've been, uh, or have severe depression, then it goes to a third round where then they do a total write on what this patient, this young person needs and how they're gonna treat it, and goes to making sure that those in our care that truly have autism get the directions they need.

92. 0:29:17

    Dr. Zina has had wonderful results with these children. Autistic children don't eat, or they'll only eat peas and maybe peaches. I mean, and that's-- Nobody can do them. Or they'll eat with their hands. And Dr. Zina and the methods that she used, which will be used in these pilot projects, and she will be helping doing the training for the people who work in them, uh, so it's not just about the children. She will be training the people that are gonna work in them and, and interact with the children.

93. 0:29:50

    They get them to feed themselves in a very short period of time. How about a week of intervention to a kid that won't feed themself, will only eat two things? But with their parents coming in and watching them, and Dr. Zina's methods, for some of them, by the end of the week, they'll use a spoon. Not every time, but they'll be on the way, and the parents learn how to deal with them. So it's not just to help the children, it's to also help the parents learn how to deal with the autism so that they can be reunited with their children.

94. 0:30:26

    Um, the-- They will prioritize screenings, clinical evaluations, and service for children for, uh, in foster care who have been diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactive disorder, uh, disi- uh, re- reactive attachment disorder, or they've been given psychotropic drugs. Sometimes as Americans and when people are having trouble dealing with their children, they think, uh, medication seems to be maybe the last thing they turn to, maybe the first, like with attention syndrome, when that's not the problem.

95. 0:31:03

    Um, so what this does is start the programs as of July first. I mean, and, uh, what it starts is it starts this five-year project, and it will, you know, include screening for the end, uh, reports. And after the first year, it will start expanding this, this type of care to other of the districts that treat these children in our state.

96. 0:31:33

    There are fourteen districts, so slowly but surely, they will start adding each year as si- as much as they can get funding for to cover those other districts, the public health districts, so those children can be reached too. Um, I know that the Senate has a similar bill. Um, Representative Silcox did not give me permission to do this. We-- She was unable to talk to me about it. I know that this one calls for an evaluation, um, by July first, twenty thirty-one.

97. 0:32:08

    I think that's a little bit long. That's my personal opinion, and I know that the Senate has sharpen- shortened that time for the first initial report on the results. And if the chair would allow, I would think maybe after three years, it might be enough significant, um, information coming out of these that we could ask for a first report, which would go to the speaker and the governor and, uh, would also come to my committee, um, the lieutenant governor and all, to tell us how these programs are working across our state as we continue to add, um, the program and pay for it in the other districts.

98. 0:32:49

    So that's the bill.

99. 0:32:51

    And all right, thank you so much for your willingness to, to help a colleague, uh, out in her time of need. So thank you for presenting this bill. Um, all right, looks like we do have a few questions.

100. 0:33:02

     Okay.

101. 0:33:02

     Um, Floor Leader Wade, I believe you are first.

102. 0:33:06

     Thank you. Thank you for having your, uh, legislative sisters back today, and I, uh, truly appreciate what she's doing. Um, she and I had some deep conversations when my dad was dealing with, um, his passing with Alzheimer's, so I'm praying for her as well. I'm very supportive of the effort. I wanna ask this question kind of to your point.

103. 0:33:24

     Okay.

104. 0:33:25

     Um, since it is... Any number is a large number, but because it is a hyper-focused pool of children, uh, is there anything that we could put or consider language that would allow this pilot group to p- provide a report when they felt that a report had initial findings? Because of the success you've mentioned, and I've heard some stuff from back home, it... they may have actionable data within a year or two years or three, to your point. So I, I don't know how she thinks about it with a Senate decision.

105. 0:33:55

     I would almost feel comfortable with language that it could be sooner, allow that flexibility. If there is a report that gives meaningful information that we don't have to need to wait for three to five years, why wait that long?

106. 0:34:07

     Absolutely.

107. 0:34:07

     Representative Momtahan.

108. 0:34:07

     That's why I... I mean, I agree with that. I would even say that-

109. 0:34:10

     Right

110. 0:34:10

     ... it'll be done in one district this first time, and I would say that, um, after, i- if it's voluntarily to ask for, that you say they would like a report at one year, but no later than, so that we at least shorten it by law that they can't let it go to the fif- the end of the program and all just because they want to. But that's my... And I'll take whatever the, y'all work out in the committee. All right. Well, let's, um... Holly, legislative council in the back.

111. 0:34:40

     Mm-hmm. Thank you for being here. Um, to the point that Floor Leader Wade brought up and, and also Chair Cooper- Mm-hmm ... when we're, when I'm looking at this bill, it just says no later. I'm not seeing anywhere where it specifies it's a five-year program other than the description. It's n- it's, it's a five-year study. Um- Okay ... from your, from-

112. 0:35:02

     That's what it's saying

113. 0:35:03

     ... from your, from your expertise, does it say it is a five-year study or does it say it has to be in by five years? No, it's in, uh, they, it says the department should develop and implement a five-year pilot program. Line 33, okay. All right, I missed that part. All right. Okay. Um, well, Dr. Zema worked on this with, um- We're all ready ... Chair Silcox. Was her recommendation five years, or was her recommendation three years? I, I don't have that information, but knowing the doctors, sometimes it's overkill with how many reports we ask them to give.

114. 0:35:40

     So I think that Representative Wade has a good idea that if you wanna make the first one as soon as they start-

115. 0:35:47

     As easily can provide

116. 0:35:49

     ... you know, with that, you know, that they start seeing results, that we have a preliminary report, and then move it to three years.

117. 0:36:01

     All right. Legislative council, do you think you might be able to put some verbiage in that as soon as a preliminary report is available, it will be made available to the committee members?

118. 0:36:14

     Mm-hmm. Okay. And then if it, then that way, if they're getting results that actually a preliminary report, then if they could give us one no later than three years, and then one at the end would be... So it's not overburdening them with... We don't have a lot of doctors that specialize in this, in, in really concentrating on autism, so. Okay. All right. Um, all right. Looks like, um, Rep- Representative Draper, I believe you're next on our list.

119. 0:36:48

     Thank you, Chair Lenney. Um, okay. So I, I like the bill. Thank you very much for bringing it, and thank you very much for bringing it for Chairwoman, um, Silcox. Um, one thing you said struck me-

120. 0:37:00

     Okay

121. 0:37:00

     ... which was, you know, we have this problem where we have children with autism, and it's so difficult for those families that they give their children up as wards of the state, and that's, you know, that's just heartbreaking.

122. 0:37:10

     Mm-hmm.

123. 0:37:11

     Um, uh, I understand that we are targeting this pilot to children who are already in foster care-

124. 0:37:16

     Mm-hmm

125. 0:37:16

     ... and that's a small universe, and that makes sense, and those are the most vulnerable children. But what have we considered, if anything, and, and maybe the answer is nothing yet or we're working on it, um, to prevent that from happening in the first place? I mean, are there screenings that are available, resources that are available so that the families don't get to the point that they're giving up these children? Um, just, and, you know, maybe that's a conversation for another day, but I just wanted your thoughts on that because that, that breaks my heart.

126. 0:37:42

     Well, prevention in any kind of illness or condition is always preferable. I think that when we start picking up the tab for it, it would be children in the program that are, that come in the program during that five years would be evaluated. I don't... The Marcus Autism Center at Emory is doing a lot of research on trying to pick it up early.

127. 0:38:13

     Um, the last one I was over there, they had a program where a mother can bring the baby in in a car seat, you know, that you can pick up and move with you. And they put the baby on this table, and at the end of that table, uh, there's a room that the mother goes in, and then the baby can see the mother when they talk and look at a certain place. And they're beginning to be able to tell that if the baby's eyes don't follow the mother and does certain things-

128. 0:38:48

     Mm-hmm

129. 0:38:48

     ... that that child, it's an early prediction of a perh- perhaps autism. But those studies are underway. I don't know that we have anything where we could do a really big screening. Um, you know, that we could do it and, and say it's part of prenatal care or anything. They're not, it's not ready for primetime yet. Um, and so, um, but this is so much better than anything we've had. And I have been amazed at the children who come in so combative, so hopeless, you know, just u-

130. 0:39:24

     u- unmanageable sometimes. That the difference that this program and the correct handling and getting the right, correct diagnosis, what a difference it makes.

131. 0:39:37

     Mm-hmm.

132. 0:39:37

     There are some that have actually, they've worked with across the country and all, and this method that Dr. Zina uses where they go on to function, can go back into s- classrooms in school. Uh, some of them can actually go on to college. Of course, with some help and, you know, lots of times, uh, children with autism have to have he- help with daily living things. And so they're not always left on their own, very seldom that they can be totally alone. So we're moving on it.

133. 0:40:07

     All right.

134. 0:40:08

     It's just-

135. 0:40:08

     Chair Cooper, we're actually, um, committee would indulge me on this. We're actually gonna take a recess.

136. 0:40:14

     Okay.

137. 0:40:14

     And, um, we're gonna take a recess, and we're gonna let ledge council do work on this for a few minutes.

138. 0:40:19

     Okay.

139. 0:40:20

     We've got one other issue to straighten out on another bill.

140. 0:40:22

     Right.

141. 0:40:23

     So with the committee's c- permission, I'd like to come back at 2:30. Is that agreeable? We have the room until 3:00. Is that okay, everyone else?

142. 0:40:31

     I know all of us have other committee meetings, so we'll do the-

143. 0:40:34

     Do have conflicts with our committee meetings. All right. Well, let's do this. Um, we will simply come back later this week. Okay?

144. 0:40:40

     Mm-hmm.

145. 0:40:40

     All right. And, um, your, your bill is currently, we're gonna not vote on it today. It's gonna be a hearing only.

146. 0:40:45

     Okay.

147. 0:40:45

     And we will move forward with it at our next meeting. Okay?

148. 0:40:48

     Okay. And will somebody be working on-

149. 0:40:50

     Yes

150. 0:40:51

     ... amendment?

151. 0:40:52

     Um, Holly's working on that right now.

152. 0:40:54

     Okay.

153. 0:40:54

     All right. Thank you so much, everyone.

154. 0:40:56

     Yes. Great.

155. 0:40:56

     Have a great day.

156. 0:40:57

     Thank you very much.

157. 0:41:57

     Thank you.

158. 0:41:58

     We're not taking up Billings bill?

159. 0:42:00

     Sanford.

160. 0:42:02

     Are you aware that, that a math is being done-

161. 0:42:06

     No

162. 0:42:06

     ... that they can put on audio recording all your...