House Transportation Committee, February 19, 2026

Transcript

483 turns. Select a time to play that moment of the video.

1. 0:09:46

   Okay, thank you. We have a, we have a sign-up sheet right there on the middle table. Those you'd like to, to, uh, speak, especially about 1342, sign-up sheet's right on the front table.

2. 0:15:42

   Anybody lose a cell phone?

3. 0:15:44

   I did.

4. 0:15:45

   Oh, yeah, that, that probably is mine.

5. 0:15:46

   Oh.

6. 0:15:50

   Here we go. Oh, my goodness. Well, hey. Well, thank you, everybody, for being here and being so on time. I appreciate your attendance. Just, uh, I want to follow up on one thing from a previous meeting. We did not recognize a new member of this committee. Where's he hiding? Where's he hiding at? Way down there. Bill, glad you're on our committee. Appreciate it. You know, replaced Mandy Ballinger. Looking forward to working with you in transportation. We're glad you're here.

7. 0:16:19

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

8. 0:16:20

   And so... And also I had, uh, my GDOT board member was here, District... Jeff Lewis. He was here earlier. I don't know if he... Is Jeff here? Nope, is not. Okay. But I do also, um... There's Noah Rainwater here. I don't hear him. Noah, stand up. You know, Noah was our community intern last year. He was just doing like Elliot is doing right now, and Noah is an intern for GDOT this year, and he's been doing a great job keeping up with what's going on at the Capitol, and we just appreciate, uh, Noah being here.

9. 0:16:55

   So it's a busy day. If you'll see, um, members on the agenda, we had a change. We removed House Bill 1286 and 1287 from today's meeting. Okay, the order will be as it is on your agenda, that we have a quorum. So we're gonna start off with, uh, Chairman Silcox, and she has House Bill 1137.

10. 0:17:22

    You'll see it in your group, LC 394852. It's as is. It's not a sub. So Madam Chairman.

11. 0:17:32

    Thank you, Mr.-

12. 0:17:33

    And you have a guest with you.

13. 0:17:37

    Can you hear me now? Great.

14. 0:17:38

    There you go.

15. 0:17:38

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, I'm, um, delighted today to be joined by Jennifer LaRosa, who's the head of government relations for MARTA, and we are gonna present to you House Bill 1137. The LC number is 394852. And this bill is very simple. Um, it simply is to renew an existing tax. Again, let me just say that. It's an existing tax. We're going to extend, um, basically the TSPLOST, um, for 1%, um, for 10 years.

16. 0:18:14

    So that's, that's the bill. And I'll let Jennifer take it away.

17. 0:18:18

    Doing the presentation?

18. 0:18:19

    Yes, ma'am.

19. 0:18:20

    Okay. Um, well, hello there. I'm Jennifer LaRosa. I'm honored to serve as MARTA's senior director of government community affairs, and I want to thank Chair Jasperse and the committee for your time today. I want to begin with the fact that you, your region has a really good transit system. But MARTA staff and patrons in, uh, amongst the region are not satisfied with good. We are ready to go from good to great, and to do this, it's gonna take a short-term discomfort for some long-term benefits, and it... our goal is simple. It's to increase ridership and improve customer service by delivering safe, clean, and reliable through routine excellence every day.

20. 0:18:57

    Sorry, this microphone's weird.

21. 0:19:00

    It's all good.

22. 0:19:01

    We're gonna do that by improving operational reliability, safety and security, delivering excellent customer service, and of course, being ready for World Cup and beyond. We have six key projects to do that. The first up of those big six are, when are the new trains arriving? You probably saw them come online last year when we re- unveiled the first one. And so we will have a set of those in May, so they will be in line for the World Cup.

23. 0:19:34

    Right now, we have some of the oldest trains on rail in the nation. When this happens, we will have the newest ones in the nation, and they are... My favorite piece of this is it's an open gangway, which means it's open from one end to the other, so we'd be able to have one MARTA police person, um, patrol the train without having to hop on and off at each station, which they do now. The next thing we hear about, "When would I be able to just tap my credit card to get onto the system?" If you've been to Europe or anywhere else that has transit, that's the way they do it there.

24. 0:20:04

    Our answer to that is April. We have, um, been doing about 18, uh, 23 stations under construction at the moment for our Better Breeze launch in April 2026. We will accept anything but crypto. As long as you have a chip on your card, or if you have some type of Apple Pay on your phone or watch, you can use that. Y- there will still be options to do the Breeze cards at the Breeze stations, but all of them will be new. We'll have new fare gates. We'll have new Breeze machines. Everything will be, uh, more reliable in the way that it works, counts, and gets paid.

25. 0:20:40

    The next thing we hear about quite often, and one of our priorities, is, "When can my bus come more often or to and from places that we want to go?" And the answer to that is also April. We've been really busy. After 18 months of community outreach, uh, our Next Gen bus network is going to be launching in April 26. We'll go from 111 routes to 81, which means fewer empty buses, faster service, shorter headways, and reaching more places. This means more 15-minute services, uh, to three times as many Metro Atlantians.

26. 0:21:16

    With that, you'll see in the... It's easier to see in the slides in front of you that you have, but there's about 12, uh- Golden blobs on this map here, we call those our MARTA Reach zones. These are areas that we either didn't have the density to continue regular service, or just because of density, we aren't able to get the buses through on a reliable time. So we have cut regular consistent service, and now we have an Uber-like service called Reach. You'll be able to order it from your phone, and it'll get you either to the closest rail or a bus station or anywhere point to point within that region.

27. 0:21:52

    When is MARTA gonna expand? And the answer to that is also in April. We start our MARTA Rapid, uh, Summerhill A line, which is going to go around downtown to Summerhill neighborhood and connect to Atlanta's BeltLine on the south side. Uh, you had a chance to experience the simulation of BRT, uh, for the last three years as we transferred you from the Capitol and to the eggs and issues and back. So hopefully you got to see what it's like to be in those bus-only lanes and get to service and where you're going very, very quickly.

28. 0:22:28

    Here is, uh, sort of an example of before and after of what these types of transit adjacent developments do. So City of Atlanta, Georgia State, and many of other stakeholders along with MARTA. This is, uh, a picture taken down the street in Summerhill facing the Capitol. One was taken by Google, so it looks a little different, but this is the exact same place and you can see the development and the economic growth that these types of, uh, projects will have.

29. 0:22:56

    Another one that we get often is, when can you make the rail stations more welcoming? And that answer is we have been doing a one billion dollar station rehab program across the system. Five Points, for instance, uh, ha- has quite a bit of construction going on underground and above ground, and what you'll see there currently, you'll see new wall and floor tiles, all new lighting, modernized ceiling fans, so Five Points will feel brighter, safer, and more inviting as a place. We also se- completed Garnett Station rehab just in six weeks.

30. 0:23:26

    That project was delivered, uh, on time and on budget, and we replaced a lot of the older tiling and such there. We also have, uh, the SEC District station signage underway. We have smart restrooms being installed there, and we're also doing some extra work on the ceiling and roof in that station too. Will MARTA be ready for World Cup? And that answer is easy for us. Yes, we will be. We are focused on operational safety and communication enhancements to ensure the system is ready to ride and for those larger crowds.

31. 0:23:59

    We're gonna be addressing cleanliness, lighting, parking, overall appearance of the system, as well as ensuring way finding signs and announcements are clear and plentiful. Over the past year, we have been developing this plan for a focus on providing sustained operations over a month-long period of matches and events with current resources available. We'll provide extended service, have more officers, MARTA staff, safety teams, and transit ambassadors on the system that are multi-language messaging, so the system is safe, clean, reliable and welcoming for all of our world visitors.

32. 0:24:32

    What comes after that, though? I wanna tell you a few of the projects that we have going on that will serve our region, uh, permanently and all of these have received Transit Trust Fund dollars too, by the way. So first up, we have Five Points. Here's a rendering of Five Points, uh, both above and below ground. Uh, spoke about the, uh, rehab of Five Points earlier, so this is the Five Points transformation projects. It's actually two projects in one place. And so the canopy deconstruction has begun and pedestrian access will be maintained throughout and, uh, this is...

33. 0:25:06

    This picture is what it will look like in about a few years when the whole project is complete. You'll see a lot more open airway, a lot of safety, a lot of lighting.

34. 0:25:17

    Next up we have the, uh, Bankhead Station, which it's on the Green Line. The issue with this station currently is the platform is shorter than the rest of our stations, so it can only fit a two-car train rather than our typical four-car train. So the extension of this station will allow any train to use that, which would essentially provide more service on the Green Line on a consistent basis. We are in sixty percent design for that, and we're working with the city staff to begin process for permitting. Airport Station, uh, rehab is complete for the most part, and it will be completely open with new tile, a new mural, complete new ride store, and, uh, lighting throughout.

35. 0:26:00

    And last of these projects is, uh, George 400 BRT. I would like to thank GDOT and the, um, SR 400 Peach Partners for their generosity and partnership. We're working with them right now to help finish the designs of the station, and then we're working with our local jurisdictions and CIDs to complete the pedestrian access to those stations.

36. 0:26:23

    MARTA is truly one of the safest transit systems in the nation. We actually partner with our public safety law enforcement to help reduce the crime in the communities where, uh, there is MARTA. Crime and public safety in those areas is a direct impact on our system. And so we have committed to hiring, uh, additional sworn officers, and we have thirty-two of those in recruitment centers right now in our local jurisdiction academies. This brings our department to three hundred plus, including uniformed officers, non-sworn security officers, field protective specialists, plain clothes officers, K-9, bike, motorcycles, uh, SORT and bomb officers, along with our drone team .

37. 0:27:02

    With all of this, there has been a marked decline in social behavior since COVID and a lack of respect for public areas. So we do, uh, use all of these systems and all of these folks in our award-winning drone sys- uh, program to establish a real-time crime center as well, and al- allows us to monitor, um, thousands of cameras system-wide to quickly identify any threats and then move those folks around where they may be needed or where we get reports on. This has resulted in a violent crime is down fourteen percent year over year. And we know data alone doesn't make the system feel safe.

38. 0:27:34

    Perception certainly matters, so we still work to make sure that that trend is encouraging.

39. 0:27:41

    Next up, we'll talk a little bit about our budget. Here's a snapshot of our operational budget. You'll see that on here, uh, the sales tax is something we very much depend on, and we-- on the right, you'll see money out. And so you'll see that the larger blue section is the labor-intensive costs, just salaries, benefits, and such. Um, so we do focus all of our budget on being safe, clean, and reliable. Recently, we've had across the nation, a lot of transit agencies have had, uh-- facing a bit of a budget deficit to the tunes of hundreds of millions.

40. 0:28:16

    MARTA is facing t- somewhere around thirty to forty million. That shows how fiscally conservative we have been. We have done in the past year some budget cuts, along with a reduction of force of mostly empty positions. We have also tightened the belt in areas that are not dedicated to safe, clean, and reliable to make sure that that are-- th-those are our priorities. And, uh, we have done a selective hiring freeze that does not include operators and, uh, MPD, so we are still hiring those if you know anyone interested.

41. 0:28:46

    Here's another just snapshot of, uh, verbiage of all the details and priorities that we have. Again, safety is, uh, a priority, so we've budgeted police pay increase, new fare gate systems, and an increased presence of police and technology cleanliness. We have done more station and rail cleans and continued rehab of our stations. And then, of course, reliability with our NextGen bus network design, two hundred and forty-five percent more frequent service. Here you can see our credit ratings at the three major bureaus.

42. 0:29:19

    And what this shows, and we're very proud of, is that we're good stewards to the public money. We're well-positioned to invest in Greater Atlanta's transit future, and that means breaking ground on transformative projects, launching innovative programs, and then rethink how our customer experience with MARTA expands our system.

43. 0:29:37

    So MARTA does ha- uh, have two consistent funding sources. One is the sa- sales tax, and neither of these are predictable, by the way. And the other is, uh, federal formula funding, and that works in sort of a repayment system. Those formula funds are based on the service that we provided the year prior. And that information is sent to FTA. They have a formula that figures out how much we're due to that after. That money comes back to the region through our designated recipient, the ATL, and then flows back to us. So we basically get paid back for the service we provided the year prior.

44. 0:30:11

    So those are our two consistent funding sources. With those being slightly unpredictable, we do rely on federal funding quite a bit. So we have, uh, take any opportunity for grant applications. And so here you'll see that we have, um, continued to achri- achieve some strong results with securing some of those funds. In twenty-twenty five, we were awarded fifty-two million in competitive federal grants. And those went to replacing, uh, twenty forty-foot compressed natural gas buses, additional support for our Safe Routes to Transit program that we work with GDOT, and we appreciate that partnership.

45. 0:30:44

    And then targeting hardening operations for MARTA Police Department. We are waiting for about two hundred and eighty-six million dollars in federal grant requests right now, and two of those are capital investment grants. One is for the Campbellton BRT project, the other is for South Lake BRT. Both projects have already been rated as medium-high, which is really good. Uh, and then one of them, South Lake, was just earmarked in the THUD Bill for about sixty point nine million this year. So we do have some success moving forward.

46. 0:31:14

    Still a little, little bit further to go with that process, but we're, um, pretty happy with that result so far. We would not have been able to do any of this without a thirty-year local match, and that sales tax is certainly, um, contributes to that. And finally, we do have two legislative priorities, one which the chairwoman just talked about, which is the core penny extension. The last time this was done was in twenty-fifteen. There was a resounding majority in each chamber passing the House from, with a vote of a hundred and forty-two to twenty-four, and the Senate with fifty to three when we did this in twenty-fifteen.

47. 0:31:50

    This round, uh, the bill is even more simple. It's just that date change from fifty-seven to sixty-seven. And I do wanna thank this group for passing the camera bill last year. It awaits another hearing in Senate Transportation.

48. 0:32:06

    I'll take any questions.

49. 0:32:07

    All right. Well, we'll tell the committee that, you know, I asked, uh, Ms. LaRosa to come and, and do this to tell you a little bit about MARTA before we voted on, you know, House Bill 1137. Thought it was good for us to get a good idea about what's going on, what's the, uh, looking in the future and what's happening. Uh, ma'am, I have just a couple of questions I have, then we'll turn it to the committee. What does planning look like? I mean, you, you know, you're looking now at twenty sixty-seven.

50. 0:32:39

    So what is your planning process? How do y'all look that far ahead? What's the-- how does it work?

51. 0:32:44

    Uh, great question. So we have a contract we affectionately call the, the fiftieth Amendment, the RTCAA, that we-- it's a contract with each of our four jurisdictions. In that contract, uh, the last time it was signed was in twenty-nineteen. Each of those jurisdictions chose projects, prioritized those projects. And so our job from then forth, um, is to move those projects along with the resources available, and then also with whatever happens. So Summerhill, for instance, we did run into a few snags, less than ideal situation from time to time as construction goes.

52. 0:33:17

    We work with the jurisdiction to come up with some solutions on that. But sometimes those snags do cause us to pause on something and focus resources somewhere else. Uh, but those projects have timelines on each of them that we try to achieve. So basically, we take the resources that we have available to do as many of those as much as we can in the timeline we're allotted.

53. 0:33:39

    Okay. I guess following up, so if a committee member wanted to sit down and say, "Okay, I want to see what you're currently using for 2057," you could show them this is where this one cent is going.

54. 0:33:52

    Yes. I do want to caveat that with when the state passes the sales tax extension today, or i- if they do this session, that triggers a new amendment. So it doesn't go in effect until all four jurisdictions come back to the table and renegotiate that RTCAA contract. So they're, at that point, within the next 18 months or so, they may change some of those projects. They can reprioritize, and at that point, we would be able to know what we would be working on. If that doesn't happen, yes, we have the list right now.

55. 0:34:24

    Sure. Well, thank you. Okay, members, do any of y'all have any questions for the ladies?

56. 0:34:34

    Oh, prompted. If you, 24.

57. 0:34:38

    Thank you, Chairman.

58. 0:34:39

    Order.

59. 0:34:40

    Um, two questions for you guys. Um, you're talking about your budgets. What is your usership over the last couple of years, and what kind of reserves are y'all looking at?

60. 0:34:50

    What was the first part?

61. 0:34:51

    What's your usership-

62. 0:34:53

    Ridership

63. 0:34:53

    ... over, year-over-year-

64. 0:34:54

    Oh

65. 0:34:54

    ... from the last couple years?

66. 0:34:56

    I will say, uh, that our ridership on rail is a bit down. Honestly, it has quite a bit to do with fare evasion and the fare gates not being as operational as we would like, which is sort of one of the reasons behind the Better Breeze fare gate system that we're doing, so we can count that ridership better, 'cause that in- increases our formula funds that I was talking about earlier and service provided. Uh, so-

67. 0:35:18

    Let me add that there were a lot of the gates were destroyed, and people were jumping the gates and not paying.

68. 0:35:24

    Mm-hmm.

69. 0:35:24

    So there's been a lot of repair, and that's why, another reason they're going to this new system. Not to mention that because all the people coming from the World Cup, they want people to use any kind of payment that they have.

70. 0:35:37

    The bus ridership is, uh, nearly pre-COVID levels, but that's another reason we're doing the bus network redesign, so we can pick up people where they are and bring them where we're going to be more efficient and effective, and hopefully increase ridership that way. And then our mobility mode, which is, um, sort of a, a needs-based, is over COVID. It's the highest percentage. That particular mode is, um, federally required, but not federally funded. It's the most expensive as well.

71. 0:36:07

    We currently charge about $4.50 a round trip, and it costs MARTA $125 a round trip.

72. 0:36:13

    MARTA mobility is for disabled people. Um, and they pick up students, elderly people, um, but people with special needs.

73. 0:36:23

    Ms. Sheila?

74. 0:36:24

    Uh, yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You mentioned about the Bankhead Station platform extension.

75. 0:36:32

    Mm-hmm.

76. 0:36:32

    When will it be completed?

77. 0:36:35

    That is a really good question. We are in at 60% design. I think we are going to final, and then we're working with the city to get the permits on that, so we would be able to go to construction after that. I'd imagine in a few years.

78. 0:36:46

    All right. And my last question is I have a senior Breeze Card where instead of paying $2.50 each way, I pay $1 each way, so would that still, will I still be able to use this card?

79. 0:37:00

    Yes, ma'am. You would still be able to use it, but, uh, the, the option, but we need to get you a new card. So we might have to have you come in and get a new Breeze Card, but you'll still have that same option.

80. 0:37:09

    Even though it hasn't expired yet, I still need to get a n- new one?

81. 0:37:13

    That is an excellent question. I'm glad you asked. All Breeze Cards currently in use will no longer be used on the system after a certain point. So there's a, there's a time window, April to May, where we can transfer your balance, and we have some talking points and FAQs on how to do that we'll happily share. But after that, you can only use the new Breeze Cards.

82. 0:37:33

    Okay. Thank you.

83. 0:37:34

    Mm-hmm.

84. 0:37:36

    It's good to know she uses her Breeze Card.

85. 0:37:40

    Thank you for your-

86. 0:37:41

    She's here

87. 0:37:41

    ... your ridership.

88. 0:37:42

    Uh, to turn it back over to Chairman Silcox, do you have any other comments you'd like to make? No, no, I just appreciate y'all's favorable consideration. Okay, members, you've heard. Do I have a, a motion or...

89. 0:37:54

    Motion to pass.

90. 0:37:55

    Got a motion to pass. Do we have a second?

91. 0:37:57

    Second.

92. 0:37:58

    Second. Okay, all in. We have a motion to pass and second for House Bill 1137. All those in favor, aye.

93. 0:38:05

    Aye.

94. 0:38:05

    Any opposed? Measure passes. Thank you, ma'am.

95. 0:38:09

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

96. 0:38:13

    Next up, House Bill 1277, Representative Barton

97. 0:38:21

    and Mr. Josh Waller.

98. 0:38:30

    Okay. Also, members, you'll notice there is a sub. It's gonna be 394972S.

99. 0:38:39

    Yes.

100. 0:38:39

     Hot off the printer.

101. 0:38:44

     And we will thank Elliot and others for, uh, doing such fast work.

102. 0:38:49

     All right. Mr. Chairman-

103. 0:38:50

     Representative Barton.

104. 0:38:51

     Appreciate it. Thank you, everybody, for being here. This is the agency bill for the Dep- uh, Georgia Department of Transportation. Sorry, I talk fast and, um, this is a modernization bill. Uh, it updates outdated dollar thresholds, streamlines reporting, and gives GDOT flexibility to, to deliver projects more efficiently while maintaining transparency and oversight. Current law sets the trigger at $100 million. That number's simply do not, uh, reflect today's, uh, construction costs. The $150 million project is not what it was 20 years ago.

105. 0:39:22

     So the bill raises the threshold to 200 million and allows for a consumer price index adjustment going forward, so we don't have to keep revisiting this in the future. And f- it's also important to note that the culture, uh, historic and cultural pro- uh, proj- protections remain in place. This does not eliminate the environmental review. It simply prevents unnecessary delays in mid-sized projects And then it also on design build, uh, current law caps design bills projects at 50%. This r- bill removes the cap.

106. 0:39:52

     Design build is often short, uh, shortens timelines and reduce cost, uh, cost of changes orders because design and construction is under one contract. They're not eliminating competitive building. Uh, we're moving reporting. We are simply giving GDOT flexibility, um, to choose the best delivery method for the project. Um, lastly, on project, uh, property sales, the current, uh, price of $75,000 is outdated. This bill raised it to $150,000 for, or allowing for the inflation adjustments.

107. 0:40:24

     Um, appraisals are still required, uh, public notice is still required and transparency remains. It consolidates, uh, this also, bill also consolidates multiple reports into an annual fiscal, uh, year transportation report published online and delivered to the, uh, governor and general assembly. Um, it, it improves clarity, it reduces, uh, re- redundancy and the bottom line is just, uh, making it more efficient and everything else. So if there's any questions?

108. 0:40:55

     Okay. I'll tell you what, let's hang off the questions. I'm gonna get, um... Josh, will you kind of go through it section by section a little bit?

109. 0:41:02

     Sure.

110. 0:41:02

     Just a little bit more detail.

111. 0:41:03

     I can do that.

112. 0:41:04

     I know you'd love to do that.

113. 0:41:07

     All right. Section one adjusts due to the 10 year, uh, due to 10 years of highway construction inflation, the 2016 law adopted by the general assembly to support the delivery of projects funded directly by the Transportation Funding Act of 2015. The section waives the GEPA documentation requirements for projects, as mentioned, the, the $100 million. So that's section one. Section two is just codifying. It's gonna s- it just puts our, our, our annual report into code. So that becomes the anchor for all the other reporting that you'll see that we tie existing reports back to this, this annual report, consolidated report in section one.

114. 0:41:43

     Section three is just making technical changes, uh, due to section two. Section four is also a technical changes. And one of the things that happens when we have a bill that's touching a particular section, leg council's gonna make adjustments to language that you see, where lieutenant governor is restated as president of the senate. I think they're just trying to make conformity or use certain words like advertisement. Um, so sections, um, five, six, and seven are just taking those, and eight, those are just taking those existing reports and saying, "Instead of being on their own frequency, these reports will be embedded in that annual report that's created in section two." And that's something we will pr- we, we're, we give that to you today.

115. 0:42:32

     It's called the Accountability Investment Report. Um, this year you got it at the start of session. La- you know, in biennial years we have it actually by biennial, but the law would say we need to have it to you by January the 15th. So it's, it's running concurrent with the governor's dropping of his budget and the start of the session. Um, then section nine deals with, um, what Representative Barton talked about in dealing with surplus right of way. Uh, and tw- the last time y'all looked... So let me give you for instance. So there's what we'd consider kind of a, at a certain amount of property value becomes, it's uneconomic.

116. 0:43:07

     It's not very attractive. And I guess, let me back up a little further. Ha- sometime, when we acquire right of way, there, we wind, we sometimes have to acquire more than, uh, than we may need for the project because we've had an impact to a property owner. Instead of taking a road to their front, for the, to their front door, we have to take the whole parcel. So we wind up with property that we need to surplus. Some of these, these parcels are not economically competitive. Usually you're just dealing with an adjacent property owner. So rather than having to go to an extensive process of trying to advertise it and seek, and seek multiple bids, at a certain value and below, you can just negotiate with the adjacent property owner.

117. 0:43:45

     The other piece of this is it allows us to have an, a tool in the toolkit similar to DOAS, and that's to also have for online sales, online b- bidding of right of wa- surplus right of way. Again, our goal is try to get this right of way that's on our books we don't need, get it back onto the local tax digest, get it back into, to productive use, and not just sitting as unused as state property. And then 10 is just the standard, um, uh, you know, conflict repealer language.

118. 0:44:15

     Okay. Thank you, Josh. Committee, do you have any questions? Now on number 10, who is that? Mr. Richardson.

119. 0:44:24

     Josh, on that, um, that section that you were just talking about, about the adjacent property owners, um, how long do we hold property bef- before we decide that it's able to be done away with? And, uh, if you present it to the adjacent property owner, you do that before putting it out for bid, and if they will meet the current request, they get it without advertising?

120. 0:44:55

     Or how does, how does that come into play?

121. 0:44:58

     Yeah. So how does, how do we determ- make that determination? So if we... There might, there might be a parcel we look at or a remnant that we know we're not going to need. We had to acquire it to make a property owner whole 'cause we weren't gonna take that. There may be other parcels that are part of a, a project, and so we're holding onto them. But it may, we may ship the plans. And so it really depends parcel by par- parcel when it becomes eligible or something we would approve for surplus. Today we actually have a process where if you just Google GDOT surplus and you think there's a parcel you're interested in seeing surplus, you can put in a request and we will evaluate to see if that parcel is available for surplusing.

122. 0:45:36

     So what we're getting at here is there are some parcels that are uneconomic, and that's w- what's getting at this $150,000 in value, w- was $75,000 about 10 years ago. So if you think 10 years with inflation, that's, that's really the driving force for that adjustment. That- And a lot of cases, these remnants may not even have access. So the adjacent property owner, and in fact, most of them probably aren't gonna have access. So the only person that viably could use it would be an adjacent property owner.

123. 0:46:06

     And so it's just saying rather than having to go through the extensive process of advertising this tier of parcel, it-- you can just go straight to direct negotiation. And, but obviously there are provisions in there about the, how, how, how much it can deviate even in a negotiated sale from fair market value because of the constitutional gratuities clause. Well, I guess my question is, um, a lot of people go through these ads and they search, and they, they pick up some properties at great prices, and sooner or later down the road, it may be a home run for them, and adjacent property owner may not even been aware.

124. 0:46:42

     So my point was just making sure- Correct. Yeah ... that the adjacent property, uh, owner was getting notified. Ap- apologize. Yeah. So yeah, there's, all these things are ti- there's a notification process in there. In fact, though, this is strengthening that conversation with the adjacent property owner as first and foremost. So it actually makes it easier to go to them first, uh, than- Yeah ... so it's actually the, a little bit of the reverse of your concerns. We're actually, we're giving some priority to adjacent property owners. Thank you. I just want to follow up on his, Josh. So what if there are two adjacent property owners?

125. 0:47:14

     Does it then you just have to back off and go to the auction route? Correct. You, or you would, yeah, you would go to, to publicly, you would publicly, um, you make it publicly available for, for bids. Okay. Then the auct- like you've got- If, if you have demand that would be, if you have demand for, for two... The, the challenge we're experiencing is we've got a lot of parcels. There's not gonna be any demand except for the adjacent owner. Sure. And so this is making it for those... And that's why that dollar value is important, 'cause that's, when you hit 150,000 less, you're probably talking about an un- uneconomic remnant parcel.

126. 0:47:50

     Yeah. There's nothing here that requires you. I mean, I guess I'm going to make sure that this member said that an adj- all adjacent property owners are notified, that they're all, if there's two, there's three. Some are long. You have some, some that are long and narrow, that may have a number of people that there is a process in here that notifies everybody. Correct. And I don't want to get, I don't want to overcomplicate it, but there is still, under law, a provision that says if we've owned the property for less than 30 years, the prior owner's successor in title.

127. 0:48:21

     So whichever adjacent property owner would've originally owned that does inherently have first right. So in that particular instance, you might, that, that other adjacent owner- Yeah ... wouldn't have priority because the law gives it to the prior owner's successor in title. Sure. But anything over 30 years, that doesn't apply to. And, and there are often cases when the acquisition, when we've acquired it, that that owner will have waived their prior owner rights anyway. So to, to your point, if they're... Again, w- we're not shying away because competition and surplus is good to bring more money back into the right of way program.

128. 0:48:55

     It's just we've found in experience you've got a lot of these parcels that there, there's not very much demand for. And so we're trying to w- except for that adjacent owner. So this is just trying to... Okay. Representative Spencer Frye, 18. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, they touched on, uh, a question I had. Are, are we... Say you had a property that's 150,000 bucks, and you negotiate down to the 15% floor, which is, what, uh, 20, 22,500.

129. 0:49:35

     Wouldn't that be considered a gratuity by the state to offer them a discount below the appraised value? That was my question, the gratu- the effect of the gratuities clause on offering a, a discount off, off the appraised value. So I, I think because the law allows for the variation, and my under- and look, I'm not, I'm not a lawyer, so someone else can correct this. My understanding is with state law, when it provides for those scenarios where there is a benefit to deviate in some way, that there's a public benefit.

130. 0:50:07

     So the benefit to us outside of fair market value is that is property that, there is another value to us, and that is that property is no longer something we have to maintain. So that, I think that accounts for that, too, is that we, it's gonna save us some long-term costs that aren't embedded in the fair market value of the property. Understood. I think there's some question about that. And I guess what I would say is you're never gonna get in trouble unless somebody sues you anyway. Um, on the, on the front page, excuse me, on, on, uh, line 17 through 29, I just got a question about this, and I, I do think I didn't vote for this in 2016 based on the, the cost floor.

131. 0:50:50

     But can you give me an example of what would be a significant adversely effect to the quality of the environment as y'all's industry, um, would be affected? I mean, how, what is an example of that y'all have run across in the past so I can get my head around what you're talking about? So what that underlying language is, it's tying back to the whole JEPA statute- Right ... and which is mirroring off of NEPA, and it's just basically a determination of any kind of governmental action that would trigger NEPA.

132. 0:51:26

     And so the, um...

133. 0:51:35

     So, so what this, what, in 2016, they put this language in here to say that if it's 100 million or less, the JEPA documentation doesn't have to apply. So we still have to abide by all the environmental rules. We can't go off and- Um, kill endangered species. Uh, we still have to get permits from the Corps of Engineers where applicable. This is just about the documentation of all of those things that say we're going to comply with the law and signing off before you can even take the next step.

134. 0:52:13

     Is there... I- I- Do you have an example of exactly what you're trying to get? Like h- have you built a bridge that cost 150 millions, and then you had to do some study, and it stopped the bridge being built? Is that what we're talking about here? It's like- S- this is just the documentation process before you take step one to say, "Here are all the ways that we're going to make sure we are gonna follow the law," as opposed to us just following the law because we can't, obviously, we still can't violate, you know, the Endangered Species Act- Right ...

135. 0:52:45

     or proceed to, to have any impact on water without getting a f- a 404 permit from the Corps of Engineers. This was just bec- So the initiative behind this was following House Bill 170 and the ability to have state-funded projects as opposed to federalized projects, the, the desire was to provide some relief from the just Jeep documentation process. And at 100 million 10 years ago, the equivalent project today is 200 million or even more.

136. 0:53:18

     And so it's just trying to, to peg that number to the impact of inflation. Thank you. And our trustee,

137. 0:53:30

     our trustee lady said, he said the word NEPA, which I wrote down, what the heck is NEPA? And it is National Environmental Protection Act. Josh- Policy. Policy Act ... Josh is good about slinging these words. Sorry. Policy Act. Yep. Just for your informa- Okay. Representative Cox. Yeah, thanks for bringing this. If you can go to just page three, it's lines 55. So value engineering has been removed from this on, uh, that was previously in place, I guess.

138. 0:54:05

     So is this reason to create better timelines? And also, are you finding that value engineering ended up costing you long-term more money because of delays, or why are we removing value engineering? So the, there's exi- an existing fi- $50 million requirement- Right ... and less, or, and more, or less to be waived from, from value engineering. For us, we, we have seen the, the exercise of value engineering, and we are incorporating those things that we've learned into, to our standard and practical designs.

139. 0:54:41

     And so the experience has been that the actual process of going out there, consulting out for value engineering is now an added layer because we've already built in those processes on the front end with respect to design. I say that, again, this is only removing the language in state law, which mirrors the federal law. The federal law is still 50 million, whether that gets changed or... So we'll still be bound to do value engineering. It just, the state law would be silent on it and would just be subject to the federal requirement. Can I follow up?

140. 0:55:11

     Yes, sir. Please. So, um, the thought is it removes some bureaucracy. Is that what I'm hearing or- Correct. Yes. Okay. And my concern and question would be, um, then we're removing a guardrail that's holding you all accountable. Is that what's happening? Well, again, we're still subject to the requirement in, under federal law. Right. We... And I guess I'm, I can...

141. 0:55:42

     I'm gonna phone a friend on this one. You wanna jump in? You, you've got a little bit to explain on how we've incorporated it into a practical design. I got our director of engineering here. I mean- If you just, you can go to the podium right there if you like. Just tell us who you are and all that good stuff. Yeah. I'm, I'm Chris Rhodes. I'm GDOT's- Okay. Pull the mic. Speak in the microphone. There you go. Is that good? I'm, uh, Chris Rhodes. I'm, uh, GDOT's director of engineering. Uh, what Jo- what Josh is trying to say is that the value engineering process is not a new one.

142. 0:56:12

     We've done value engineering, uh, at GDOT for quite a long time. Um, so much so that most of the comments that we see anymore on a typical roadway project or bridge project, they're already things that we do now as a common practice. So when we first implemented value engineering, one of the things we did was we took track of the trends that we saw on different projects. Are we seeing similar comments coming back from value engineering teams over and over again?

143. 0:56:44

     If so, let's go ahead and put that into some of our standard processes, and that's what we've done now for the last several years, um, 10 years or more. And so what Josh is saying is that, you know, most of these things are already baked into the recipe of building a road or a bridge in G- at GDOT. Uh, but the requirement itself of value engineering, since it is a federal requirement, would still stay for some of those higher priced projects on the federal level.

144. 0:57:15

     Okay. Thank you. Good. Chairman Co- I mean, um, Thomas. Excuse me.

145. 0:57:26

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, I've just got a couple quick questions specifically about some of the terms that you use. Um, let's g- start on line 155. Um, you start off talking about market value, and then in, in several other sections, you called out appraised value. Uh, uh, if- is there any actual definition difference between market value and appraised value? And can you talk to me a little bit about how you do market value and appraised value and how those are set?

146. 0:57:57

     Because I, I think that's, would be nice information for me and maybe the c- other committee members.

147. 0:58:03

     I'll say this in terms of the particular terms used, I've got to defer to legislative council because we, while we provide concept to them, those were the terms they chose, uh, when developing. We-- The discussion was to put in, um, so let me, but let me, in terms of how... So that's, uh, that'd be a leg council question about the distinction between those. About the process for how we do, I've got, I can pull ... I'll, and pull, let me pull Chris back up again- Yeah, because it, it'd be nice to know- Right. Well ... that appraised value.

148. 0:58:34

     Well, who, who did the appraisal? When was the appraisal done? Uh, was it, uh, a five-year appraisal? Uh, you know, uh, I mean, to me, that's really a little ambiguous, and that's the only reason why I'm asking the question. Sure. Yeah. So, um, there are two sets of appraisal or values that we may come up with. Uh, so a, what, what's, I think you're referring to there is the market value. Yeah, that's- You can kind of think of this as, uh, you know, when, uh, you're needing to sell your house, and y- a realtor may come with just comp values.

149. 0:59:05

     That's not an appraisal. It's a j- it's a rough idea of what you need to put your house on the market for. That's what we start with in-house, is what is a general idea of what this piece of property, uh, is marketable for. Now, appraised value is something that's done by an appraiser. Uh, there's a process for that. So we do some of these in-house, but very often we'll consult these out and have an, uh, uh, an appraiser that's licensed, uh, complete an appraised value on the piece of property. So those are the two different kinds of values we'll have for a property.

150. 0:59:39

     Okay. And so is it the dollar threshold why you feel that it's more appropriate to go with the market value on, under the $150,000 or less property versus a appraised value for a higher value? I mean, I'm just curious why, why choose one in one spot and then something in somewhere else. It's very much, it's an amount of time. Uh, so an appraised value, in order to get an appraiser on board to go through the process of having that property appraised, um, it can take up to 90 days, something like that, in order to have that done.

151. 1:00:14

     If we do just a mar- a, a search of the market to figure out what a, a general market value is, then that's much quicker. We can do that in-house. Um, and for these properties that are below a certain threshold, like that 75 or we're looking at $150,000 now, that's the kind of timeframe that we really, uh, would prefer to have for these kind of non-marketable, uh, parcels. Okay. Can I ask a follow-up question? Sure. Yes, sir. Um, so I, I guess with that being said, if you...

152. 1:00:47

     A lot of these, I'm reading these bids to be if it comes in under 15%, then I guess you have to kinda throw those out. Um, the, a lot of times in the bidding process, you can set a floor. Why don't you just set the floor at whatever that un- that bottom value is and let them start bidding up from there instead of going through the whole process of doing a bid, and then finding out it's under 15%, and then having to put it all back out again? Does that make sense? Uh, you follow me on that? Is there- Yes. So, um, first of all, let me clarify what that 15% is.

153. 1:01:17

     That's 15% within the fair market value. So that's- Of the total ... really 85% of the, of the total property value, right? That's not 15% of the, of what we're at, what we're estimating that value to be. Yep. Um- Well, I follow you on that. I guess what I'm asking you is, you know what that 85%, in a floor value is. Yep. Instead of putting it out and going through the whole process of putting it for bid, and you find out it's under this 15%, like, do you guys just set a floor when you, when you put your bids out? Yeah. I don't know that we set a floor, no.

154. 1:01:49

     Yeah. Um, so right, right now we just let our bids come in and see where they are, and then we open them, and if they're within that 85%, 15% off of fair market value, then that's what we can accept. Okay. All right. I, I, I'm not done. I got a couple more, if that's okay, Mr. Chairman? Sure. With that? Okay. Uh, why get rid of the, the 90 days? I, I don't understand that. Normally, we'd wanna tie a time limit to the amount of time that, that, that you have to give us a document. The way I read this, once you get rid of the 90 days, it doesn't necessarily set...

155. 1:02:22

     I think the 90 days might have been there for a reason. Um- Which one are you on? Uh, I'll have to... Give me a minute. There's a couple where you strike the one, one term. So because they're, because they're being added to the annual report that's due on January 15th. Okay. 'Cause right now, it just, you strike the not later than 90 days, but, and you just put following. So I- Sure ... it's not actually changing any of the reporting. You're just getting rid of the time constraint on it. What, what, what line are you on? Uh, line 121, section eight.

156. 1:02:52

     And, uh, y- also in, uh, section seven- Yeah ... 108. So then it continues at w- line 126. Mm-hmm. "Such report shall include a comparative benefit. The department shall include a summary of projects undertaken utilizing the contracting methods for this code section in the annual fiscal year report." Okay, so is it defined when the annual fiscal year report is due to, to us? Yeah, January the 15th. That's the- Okay ... that's the section two. So- Okay, so that's why they're doing that same ... section two created the annual report, and then everywhere- Okay ... where you see those, those eliminations of those particular dates, they're all being now put into and required as part of the annual report.

157. 1:03:25

     Okay. All right. Yeah. So you'll have one document that has all these things instead of just scattered reports. We're putting in a one-stop shop so you have everything at your fingertips. Okay. Yeah, actually that makes, that makes good sense. Thank you. That, that took care of actually two of my questions. So have a... Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yeah. I just have a question. You know, Josh, you and I have talked about this auction thing quite a bit in the last week or so. Is there a-

158. 1:03:55

     And then you've got like a file folder somewhere with all these different pro- you know, ex- surplus properties. Do y'all have like a, a, I think the good question is what's the schedule? I mean, do y'all looking at some of them every month in doing this? Or how, what's your process?

159. 1:04:12

     I'm gonna pull my friend back up here again.

160. 1:04:13

     Yeah.

161. 1:04:13

     'Cause he can speak to... 'Cause there has been a v- there has been a lot of effort out, and he deserves a lot of credit for his team, what they've done to get surplus property, um, updating the system to get more and more properties ready to go. So he can speak to specifics.

162. 1:04:27

     Sure, sure. Thank you.

163. 1:04:28

     So it is a lengthy process. Uh, anytime the department buys a piece of property that, um, during negotiation it wasn't quite needed for the project, it becomes surplus property. Um, so very often what, what has happened in the past is we'll get a request in, uh, from, you know, a citizen or sometimes an adjacent property owner to ask, "Hey, is this a piece of property the department is using?" Or, "Can... Is this surplus and we can buy it?" What we'll do, what that will then start is a, an application process.

164. 1:05:02

     Uh, you know, we'll be interested in, you know, where the-

165. 1:05:04

     I guess I'll, uh, you'll have to go through all that. So it's really just as somebody requests it. Is that what you're saying?

166. 1:05:11

     Usually that's where, that is where it's been in the past. The department, though, has been very interested in trying to unload a lot of these surplus properties that we're just holding, uh, to try to get the property back on the tax maps. So, um, what we've been doing recently is to go through, identify all of the properties that we think would be deemed eligible, go through, um, what we call like a vetting process to determine, you know, is this actually a piece of property that the department doesn't have future interest in?

167. 1:05:44

     Is it a piece of property that we're okay from prior rights claiming?

168. 1:05:48

     Okay. That's good. You got a plan.

169. 1:05:50

     Yeah.

170. 1:05:50

     I think that's what mine is. It seemed like it was, it was just like a somebody complaint. Great. You're good. Thank you. I walked in late, but I have a question. You walked in late and you have a question? Well, I mean, I've been to a lot of committees lately. I know. Here, what's your number here, friend? 13?

171. 1:06:07

     You can, I can-

172. 1:06:08

     Carpenter

173. 1:06:08

     ... fill in for Mack Jackson here. Uh, just real quick on the, on the sale of the property. Does that money go into the general fund?

174. 1:06:16

     It goes back into right of way.

175. 1:06:18

     Okay.

176. 1:06:22

     So that's it?

177. 1:06:22

     P- p- just for, to... I'll further underscore that. A lot, a lot of that right away, it's-

178. 1:06:27

     I'm selling stuff. I just want to know where the money goes when we sell it.

179. 1:06:28

     It's, it's-

180. 1:06:29

     You'll know

181. 1:06:29

     ... was federally purchased.

182. 1:06:30

     Federal.

183. 1:06:31

     And so, so when you have those federal dollars, there's requirements that it has to go back into transportation. You can't sell federal transpor- You can't use tran- federal transportation dollars to buy property, sell it, and then use that money for any other purpose except for Title, uh, 23 of USC.

184. 1:06:48

     Thank you. Thank you, members. Any, no other questions? Josh? Mr. Representative Barton, appreciate you being here.

185. 1:06:55

     Thank you.

186. 1:06:56

     What's the will of the committee? Motion to pass. Motion to pass. Do we have a second?

187. 1:07:01

     Second.

188. 1:07:01

     Okay, all those in favor? Oh, thank you, Ms. Danny. We get in a hurry here sometimes. There's an amendment. We have an amendment we need to make. If you'll look on line 202.

189. 1:07:17

     Sharper eyes than mine- Line 202. There you go ... need to insert the word "to" as the sentence would read. It currently reads, "The department shall be authorized sell property pursuant..." We'll blame this on Josh for not doing proofing. It said, "The department shall be authorized to sell." We're gonna add the word "to" between authorized and sell. Is there any questions on that amendment?

190. 1:07:48

     Line 231 also. There's a line 231 also? Yeah. "To sell property." Good gracious. Some bad forgot. Just walking off the street.

191. 1:08:01

     It is. Chairman Carpenter said if you look on line 231, you'll see the same requirement. That was a pretty good catch there, Chairman. Thank you. So we have two, we have two tos that we need to add. Two tos. Okay. Is there any questions about those? Hearing none, what's the favor of the committee? I need a motion to accept these amendments. So moved. So moved. A second?

192. 1:08:24

     Second.

193. 1:08:24

     All those in favor, aye. Aye. Okay, back to the original bill. All those in favor, aye. Aye. Any opposed? No. One no. Here we go. Do note it. Thank you, committee.

194. 1:08:38

     Thank you.

195. 1:08:38

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

196. 1:08:39

     Thank you.

197. 1:08:40

     Thank you.

198. 1:08:40

     Thank you, Josh.

199. 1:08:41

     Thank you.

200. 1:08:43

     Okay, next up. 345, obviously. What's his number? 1342. Chairman Lauren McDonald. Yeah, you probably need to go to the chair up there.

201. 1:08:59

     And while, while Lauren's moving up there, committee, look on number four. Uh, Representative Jenkins, well, has been working very diligently on the airport height bill. And after Lauren's, we'll have a little discussion. I want him to fill you in on what he's been looking at, and I really appreciate his diligent work on this very important subject.

202. 1:09:36

     Okay, Chairman McDonald, I, just to get this started, members, this has been a, a... Lauren's gonna bring up a subject that's been kind of like a boiling pot that's been out there for a number of years, and I appreciate him getting started on looking for a solution to a problem that you're gonna hear about and learn a lot about in the next few minutes. So

203. 1:09:58

     Mr. Chairman, the floor is yours. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. First of all, I'd like to pass the offering plate back in the back here and get some money for your favorite charity, if that's okay. But secondly, I'm gonna bring you House Bill 1342, and we're gonna be working off a substitute, LC 39-4971S. Does everybody have a copy of that? 39-49... 49- 71S. Is everybody good?

204. 1:10:28

     Yes, we are. No. Wait a minute. We're waiting. 39-4971S. Check. 49. Yeah. We're all on the same page? Everybody got it? Yes. No? Nope. No. You need one? I do. Okay. Mr. Holly, you need one? Oh, yes, sir. We got it. It's coming. He's old. We can pass it. It's coming.

205. 1:10:54

     All right. There you go, Warren. Go ahead. Okay. Go ahead, Chairman. House Bill 1342 addresses a very real and ongoing issue in Georgia, when Department of Transportation construction contracts and utility adjustment schedules do not align. When those schedules do not match up, projects are delayed. And when projects are delayed, it's not DOT, the contractor, or the utility company that ultimately pays the price, it's the taxpayers of Georgia. When highway improvement contracts are designed, contract, contract build accepted delays into their bill- into their bids.

206. 1:11:28

     They know that utility relocations awfully, often fall far behind. They account for that risk. That risk is priced in the contract and that cost is passed directly on to hardworking Georgians. Beyond dollars and cents, the public pays in other ways. They spend more time driving through unfinished construction zones. Congested corridors remain congested longer. Economic activity is slowed. Public safety risks increase the longer work zones stay in place. We can and we must do better.

207. 1:11:58

     House Bill 1342 brings accountability, structure, and clear timelines to this process. Under this legislation, utility relocation schedules must be clearly defined and coordinated with DOT contracts at the outset. Contractors will have firm, predictable timelines for infrastructure adjustments. If a really, if a relocation falls more than 20 cent- 20% behind the approved work plan, permits shall be suspended until the progress returns at at least 80% of schedule. Utilities shall be responsible for the documented delay costs that are within their control.

208. 1:12:33

     And we remove outdated mediation board provisions to streamline dispute resolution and avoid unnecessary litigation. These issues do not need to end up in the courtroom. What they require is communication, coordination, and accountability. Right now, too often each party works to mitigate its own c- company's risk rather than working collaboratively to mitigate the public's risk. HB 1342 resets that balance. It encourages everyone, DOT, utilities, and contractors to work from the same timeline and towards the same goal: delivering projects on time and on budget.

209. 1:13:09

     As a legislature, we have a responsibility to ensure that the Department of Transportation operates within a clear contractual frameworks and the utility adjustments are aligned with those contracts. This bill strengths- strengthens that thing, framework. Members, I expect there will be a robust debate and a discussion on this measure. That is appropriate. But at the end of the day, this bill benefits your constituents. It helps road construction projects in your districts. It moves, to move more slow, smoothly and reach completion faster. It reduces unnecessary taxpayer expense and improves accountability across the board.

210. 1:13:44

     We want the same outcome: safer roads, less congestion, and responsible stewardship of our taxpayers' dollars. HB 1342 helps get, get us there. Mr. Chairman, I respectfully encourage our, our committee to vote favorably for this, this measure. And the only change, the substitute, uh, just to let the members know, is, is line 72, if you'll go to that.

211. 1:14:16

     And on line 72, it said, uh, before it said, "Shall suspend the permit," and then, uh, in the substitute, "Shall be authorized to deny or suspend the permit." That's the only change in the substitute, for the substitute. I think, Chairman McDonald, I think you need to do just one additional thing before we move on to questions. Could you just give a, the committee just a, just a real world example of what you're talking about, of how thing, how this plays out in maybe your community or others?

212. 1:14:51

     Uh, yes, Mr. Chairman. You know, we all have those constituents that ride our roads. I'm gonna use Highway 20, for example. We've got a huge expansion that's going on. Uh, Canton from the Cherokee County side, it's already been done, but now it's in the Forsyth side. And the calls that we get is, "Why are the tractors sitting there? What's, what's going on? Why has the project kinda stopped?" 'Cause people ride these roads every day going to f- to work or taking their kids to, to, to the, to the ball fields. And I started looking into it and it, it came down to the, the contractors were waiting on utilities, whether it's done through the s- municipalities, the county, or, or the util- the utility providers themselves, and it was slowing down these projects.

213. 1:15:34

     And it seemed that, that, uh, it's at the, at the, the risk of everything I mentioned before in my statement of, of safety, efficiency, and, and, and money and time.

214. 1:15:48

     Okay. Let's t- turn it over to Committee for Chairman's Number 8, Representative Clifton.

215. 1:15:55

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I've got a couple questions, if that's all right. Um, first is the permit. Um, make sure I have this right spot.

216. 1:16:06

     Shall be authorized to deny or suspend the permit for such utility for-

217. 1:16:10

     Give, give us a, a line number

218. 1:16:12

     I'm sorry. Line, uh, uh, top of page four, um, line-

219. 1:16:16

     70

220. 1:16:16

     ... 71, 72-

221. 1:16:17

     Okay

222. 1:16:17

     ... through 75. Is that the permit for that particular project, or is that the permit for the utility company across the board?

223. 1:16:26

     It's gonna be... I mean, um, correct me if I'm wrong, Mr. Fields. That's the r- permits that are issuing across the board, isn't it? S- I've got Mr. Fields who's with DOT Utilities.

224. 1:16:37

     Okay.

225. 1:16:38

     Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. Uh, Nick Fields, administrator for the Office of Utilities. I'm gonna pull the... I have some height challenges, so I'm gonna pull this a little bit. Um, yes, I think the intent there is permitting across the board and, and not an individual permit. The individual permit for the project, of course, you know, if, if that permit is suspended, they can't complete the work.

226. 1:17:04

     So if we're suspending that utility company's permit to do work, if one job is slow, you could end up having a whole lot of other jobs that stop all of a sudden. If you're stopping their permit from being able to do work, they could be actively working on jobs to keep them going, and if we suspend them, that work stops too-

227. 1:17:21

     Agreed

228. 1:17:21

     ... across the whole state.

229. 1:17:23

     And I, I do wanna clarify something. So in our world, we, we have what is considered project permits and what we consider routine permits. Routine permits are requests that come in every day. They're not associated with a project, but they do introduce facilities into the right of way. Project permits are specifically for relocation of utilities that are in conflict with the proposed design. S-

230. 1:17:48

     Okay, but so that was back to my original question. Is the permit of the project being suspended, or is it essentially... A- and I'll change the word permit so maybe we're a little more clear. Is the license of the utility company that's providing or that is behind being, um, suspended?

231. 1:18:05

     Yeah, from what, from what I understand, from what was read there, the intent would be if there are n- new permitting requests that, that are being requested to be introduced into the right of way, that those, those requests would potentially be, could potentially be denied, or if there were new requests that, again, was recently introduced into the right of way, they could be suspended. And I, I do wanna, I do wanna...

232. 1:18:37

     Well, can I just add a disclaimer here, if you don't mind? Um, g- 'cause I, I can kind of feel the tension. It's, it's a difficult, difficult position. I, I feel like it's a difficult position for myself because we've got many utilities represented in this room that I consider partners. We, we work together every day, um, and, and I, I definitely respect that and honor that. Um, and, and the questions that I'm answering here today, I, I only wanna intent...

233. 1:19:11

     I, I only intend to kind of paint a picture of what we're actually experiencing. So I, I do wanna say that. But yes, the, the intent there... So I'll give you an example. We have several projects that, um, are delayed for whatever reason. Um, and while we're still experiencing those delays, we'll receive permit requests to introduce new facilities into the right of way. And so we're experiencing delays on one hand. We're introducing more facilities and more conflicts on the other hand, and the question just becomes, where does it end?

234. 1:19:47

     Okay. I, I'm, I'm not sure this reads that way of what you're saying. I understand what you're saying. That makes more sense. But I, I, I think... And I'm not a lawyer, and I say that five times already today, so. Um, I will move on real quick. Starting at 94, we are essentially deleting all of the section that is referencing mediation. Um, with the attempt of keeping this out of the courts, what is the new deciding factor on these type situations if we're not gonna mediate?

235. 1:20:18

     Are we gonna litigate, or is the, uh, DOT just get to... Are they the judge, jury, and executioner? They name the cost, and the cost is what it is.

236. 1:20:29

     Well, I definitely don't consider us judge, jury, and executioner. Um, what I, what I will say is this. Our, our current process when a project is delayed, um, we go through a series of escalation steps. We go through an initial escalation step to attempt to resolve the delay. If we're unable to reach an agreement, we proceed to a second escalation step where we have the utilities, the contractor, and DOT. We, with several DOT SMEs represented, and we take a look at whether or not there are legitimate delays to the project as a result of the schedule not being adhered to.

237. 1:21:09

     Um, ultimately, the department does make a ruling, and we provide the contractor time. What we don't give the contractor is monetary damages associated with it. If there are any monetary damages on a- that are desired, the utility has the option to either pay those damages, or if they disagree, they can petition a mediation panel.

238. 1:21:33

     But can they do that now if we're getting rid of the mediation parts in this bill or in the code?

239. 1:21:37

     Well, if, if, if there is a monetary claim, that elimination would then require that that monetary claim be paid for and not be go- and not go before a mediation board.

240. 1:21:51

     Okay.

241. 1:21:55

     Hmm. Um, I'm, I'm not sure-

242. 1:21:58

     I love that the, "Hmm." That, that's great. I, I've just got, just, um... Sorry to tease you, Representative.

243. 1:22:05

     No.

244. 1:22:06

     I think it'd be a good moment, um, for- Nick, or Mr. Fields, excuse me, if you would take a minute and just explain the process. I mean, in a, in a construction zone that's, or something's going on, what, what's the day, week, month? I think, I think the committee needs to... I mean, I know 'cause I've been talking about this a little bit, but I think they may not know the process that y'all go through to try to keep things online.

245. 1:22:35

     Yeah, sure. Um, well, the process actually starts years in advance of, of a project actually being let to construction. So we have, when- whenever a project is conceptually envisioned, we make an assessment of every utility that could potentially be impacted in the right of way. During that assessment, we notify utility owners. They're a part of our concept discussions well in advance of us getting to design. We have milestones along the way where they have the option to come in, have input in our design.

246. 1:23:10

     We have the ability to make design changes as a result of their input. We wanna minimize the, the, the best conflict mitigation strategy is avoidance, and so that's what we try to do. Um, we spend years in this negotiation until the point we get to a, a stage of final design, and that's when we have relocations identified, we have drawings finalized, and then there's a schedule that's developed for the amount of time it will take to relocate.

247. 1:23:41

     Once that schedule is developed, we go through a process of negotiating those schedules to try to get the time reduced as much as possible to factor it into our construction schedule and then ultimately let the job. And even after we let the project, there, there's GDOT staff, there's staff from the contractor. There are several individuals that are involved in weekly and monthly coordination meetings, discussions to make sure that conflicts are being mitigated, relocation is occurring, companies are staying on schedule, et cetera, et cetera.

248. 1:24:18

     So it, it's, it's very complicated, and there are a lot of smart people involved in the process.

249. 1:24:25

     That help a little bit about how it goes? Thank you.

250. 1:24:28

     Yes, sir.

251. 1:24:29

     All righty. Now, we got a bunch of questions. And so for the members, let's kind of make sure we got, keep them succinct, one per- one each. Representative Holly. Watch where I'm sitting.

252. 1:24:41

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

253. 1:24:42

     Over there.

254. 1:24:43

     Um, thank you to the sponsor for at least trying to make sure that this cost doesn't, uh, go down to the local individuals. Um, I was wondering, first, on line 54, um,

255. 1:24:57

     just reading it, um, kind of that last clause, it seems to be missing a word. "If the utility fails to submit an acceptable work plan, the department shall give the utility written notice that if the utility fails to submit an acceptable work plan within 30 days, the department will let the proposed highway improvement project"

256. 1:25:18

     Is it, it will let it continue? It will let-

257. 1:25:21

     No, that's letting the contract out. Letting-

258. 1:25:24

     Oh, to let. Okay

259. 1:25:24

     ... the contract. Letting the contract.

260. 1:25:26

     Okay. Okay. Thank you. Uh, and then, and just small part of, on 90, uh, line 90 in terms of the damages and delay costs. I know the gentleman just spoke about the process through which, um, that this is built. Are those costs, um, per day, are they specified to which if there is the delay and a party is to be charged for causing that, um, that all parties are in agreement or does that need to be codified?

261. 1:25:57

     I'm gonna let the department... Mr. Fields?

262. 1:26:03

     Yes, sir. Great, great question. So there isn't a, uh, flat rate predetermined. What it's based off of are, uh, we, we actually have in our accommodation policy, uh, different items that a contractor can consider if they are delayed, and that's everything from additional bond costs and insurance costs to labor overhead, equipment escalations, material escalation. In, in essence, um, anything that it takes for them to do the job that now has to be escalated as a result of the delay, those are, those are costs and damages that, that they can seek compensation for.

263. 1:26:44

     So it's a, it's a very, it's, it's a predefined list of things that can be requested and nothing outside of that.

264. 1:26:55

     Is it true, Mr. Fields, I bet save yourself a little exercise. Probably stay there. I think you just need to stay there.

265. 1:27:06

     My wife would love the exercise, but-

266. 1:27:07

     Because I, if you would like, you can sit beside... Why don't you sit beside Chairman McDonald if you'd like to?

267. 1:27:14

     Is, is that a command, sir? Or is it optional?

268. 1:27:18

     Honey, you just do whatever you want. I don't believe I'm arguing with you.

269. 1:27:25

     Put your arm around

270. 1:27:28

     him.

271. 1:27:28

     Do I have your approval, Josh?

272. 1:27:32

     Yes, you do. I'll, I'll speak for him.

273. 1:27:38

     Just, I wanna just, uh, yeah, Representative Clifton, maybe think about the question I've had about this for the last... You look at the, the projects that y'all do. Do y'all have like a percentage of projects that are without delay, that the contract is not extended beyond the initial contract time?

274. 1:28:02

     So I, I don't have the percentage quantified that are without delay, but I, what I can say is over the last three years, we've had 207 projects delayed.

275. 1:28:18

     Out of?

276. 1:28:20

     I, I can get that number, sir. I, I don't have that with me.

277. 1:28:23

     Okay. That's why I would like to know that. I think it's a-

278. 1:28:26

     Yes, sir

279. 1:28:26

     ... 'cause if it's 500, that's a big, that's 50%. If it's, if it's the thousands, it's a whole different story.

280. 1:28:33

     Yes, sir.

281. 1:28:33

     I'd, I'd love to know that. Next, uh, Chairman Powell.

282. 1:28:41

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, uh, thank you for getting Mr. Fields to do some explanation. I've been sitting here reading this bill, and I know I'm a freshman on this committee and don't know a whole lot about some of this stuff, but I'm looking at this, and it sort of strikes me that we're talking about big government versus big business versus big utilities and/or little utilities. But the question in what I listened to you talk about was the process. So does the process y'all work, even though you may have 217 projects.

283. 1:29:13

     In the mix of that thing, knowing in the construction industry, a lot of times when you are rerouting utilities and the such, sometimes you run into unexpected issues that were never on the scene. How much of that, these 217, were these minor hold-ups or major hold-ups?

284. 1:29:35

     Um, they're major hold-ups, I'll say that. Uh, do we have the occasional situation where there are unforeseen utilities? Absolutely. It's, it's not a perfect world. Uh, it depends on where you are in the state. If we're, if we're here in Metro Atlanta, um, where we have a high concentration of utilities, there's a tendency to find more. Uh, if, if you need the exact percentage, again, we, we love crunching numbers, we can do that. Um, but the, the bulk majority of these are, um, are, are major and not an unfor- an unforeseen utility that results in an escalation.

285. 1:30:16

     I guess if, may I?

286. 1:30:18

     Yes, sir.

287. 1:30:20

     I guess my point, I'm sitting here and I'm reading this bill, it looks to me like the onus of this is putting full authority into DOT, and, uh, with no recourse for these utilities, and it's even more amplified to me when I get on down to the bottom of the bill. And I'm, and the thing that struck me was when the author presented the bill, he was talking about saving the taxpayers. But once you've done away with mediation, you only have one recourse, and that's litigation. And anytime there's litigation, you're gonna have two losers, and the final loser's gonna be the, the ta- uh, the rate payer and this taxpayer because then you're gonna have litigation being borne by DOT and litigation being borne by the utilities, that the rate payer- payers ultimately are gonna have to pay that bill.

288. 1:31:10

     And, and that's the reason. I'm wondering whether the cur- is the current system so broke that we have to go to this arbitrary of a system?

289. 1:31:20

     Well, h- here's what I'll say, and I, I think there are kind of, there are two things at play. So on the back end of this, we have the discussions of project delays and, and escalation and mediation. On the front end of this, we have scheduled durations that are, um, that are so lengthy that it, escalation may never even be a consideration. Um, I'll, I'll start on the front end. So, so we ha- we tend-- we have utility adjustment schedules that extend six, seven years for that single utility relocation alone.

290. 1:32:00

     Uh, we have project schedules that extend eight or nine years in length for just the utility relocation, not, not the actual construction project itself. Um, many of those projects, they never really see the light of day for escalation and mediation as being an option. I'll kind of go to the, the back end. Um, the question is, is, is, is the process broken? Here's what I will say.

291. 1:32:30

     We d- I don't believe that we have alignment between adjustment schedules that are currently drafted and the actual construction schedule that, um, we have in our contract. And I'll, I'll go further to say over the last seventeen years of having this law in motion, there have been four mediations. There have been, there, there have been four, there have been four mediations-

292. 1:33:03

     You said eighteen years.

293. 1:33:03

     Uh, sorry, sev- seventeen years. Uh, over the last seventeen years, there have been four mediations. There, there is a, there's a, there's a, um,

294. 1:33:16

     there's an overwhelming number of escalations that have occurred, and ultimately what it boils down to is the department will provide a time extension to address that delay, which also includes all of the escalated charges that comes with that. And, you know, I don't-- I can't speak for our contractors and, and I won't begin to do that, but ultimately, the department really doesn't have a decision as to whether or not monetary claims are pursued or not.

295. 1:33:51

     And again, the, where mediation comes into play is if there is a request for monetary damages, the utility disagrees with the amount being requested, and then they can petition for mediation to attempt to address that. But the, what I'm trying to say is mediation does not address the-- Mediation i- is a tool that addresses the monetary part of this discussion, but not the actual time as a result of the delay.

296. 1:34:26

     But doesn't m- further. But doesn't the mediation on the monetary damages, doesn't that directly affect how quick somebody's gonna get the work done?

297. 1:34:41

     I don't think so, sir.

298. 1:34:45

     All right.

299. 1:34:46

     I, well, I, I-

300. 1:34:47

     We live in two different, we live in two different business worlds. Um.

301. 1:34:51

     I, I haven't seen-- I, I'll say I haven't seen those effects in, in our ability to deliver projects.

302. 1:34:57

     Yeah. I guess what I'm, I'm looking at is this, we're basically taking the system, we're putting DOT in full control of telling utilities. And this isn't just Georgia Power or the MCs, this is the small phone companies like some I represent. Even though I don't think this is a problem up in my part of the world, 'cause we could take six years to even get on the list to get a roundabout where I'm from.

303. 1:35:23

     Yeah. I'm glad I could bring some humor and levity to this crowd. But my concern is with this, we're arbitrarily giving DOT full authority, and then by taking it out on the bottom end, the mediation clause. And due process is a vital part of any type of business relationship. And there's got to be something, if there's not mediation, then there's litigation. And I'd much rather see the progress go forward than a bunch of lawyers, and I apologize to any legal folks here, are making money off of this, quite frankly.

304. 1:36:03

     I, yes, sir. I, I just wanted to speak to the facts. I don't, I don't have a-

305. 1:36:09

     That's all right

306. 1:36:10

     ... position either way, so.

307. 1:36:10

     Oh, I understand, and I'm not taking it personally. To me, it's just a philosophical issue that we need to look because we've got several business entities. We've got big government with the DOT. We've got big business with the contractors. We've got big utility business with these utilities. And I'm sitting here listening to how you told me the process works, and I heard what, uh, Chairman McDonald said up on the, uh, State Route twenty.

308. 1:36:40

     That's an ongoing process. They've been working on that thing since, well, I'm not gonna say where I used to travel up in there years ago, but they've been working on that road for years. That's an ongoing process. There's always some kind of a delay. There's always another stumbling block that these utilities run into. And normally, quite frankly, if there's a little more coordination, that might be helpful and some give and take when they, when they run into a major stumbling block, or in the city of Atlanta.

309. 1:37:13

     Uh, you know, who knows what they're going to dig up in the streets of Atlanta at some point. They might find the old Confederate cannons. Who knows? But there's some things need to be, there needs to be some kind of fairness in this system. And that's the reason I think that the mediation, if nothing else, the mediation is a necessity at the end of this. Mr. Chairman, I spoke too long and I'm sorry to take too much time.

310. 1:37:37

     We appreciate your wisdom, Chairman Powell. You know that. Number four, Representative McCollum.

311. 1:37:44

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I'm trying to figure out, so if you... I'm, I'm a little slow, so give me a second. Um, so if you have a, a project and it's, it's been through this whole process, and if I'm not mistaken, last year we passed some legislation that you could actually start moving u- utilities beforehand, correct? Because this was such an issue, right?

312. 1:38:10

     Yes, sir.

313. 1:38:11

     Um, so there's... So all the utilities is in the right of way, which is DOT property. Is that correct or no?

314. 1:38:20

     Um, yes, for utilities that are in the right of way. But not every utility in conflict with a project is on DOT property at the time.

315. 1:38:28

     Okay. And so if- if you're s- if you've got a project going and you're stuck, say for instance, you have, uh, underground power or underground low voltage or poles or whatever, there's no n- nothing you can do like in the private sector potentially, you know, you just move it yourself and then just charge it back to the whoever. That, that's, that's not, that's not even... I, I k- I know now the way it is, it's not an option.

316. 1:39:00

     But could that ever be a way that you could maybe mitigate it, say, "Look, you got this amount of time, and if you don't move your poles or utilities, we'll, we will contract to move them and you have to pay because you're holding up a project"?

317. 1:39:15

     So we, we actually place utility relocation in our contract, and we've been doing it for some time. Uh, but ultimately it's, it's the utility's decision. They, they have to opt in to allowing us to put that in our contract. But we can put it in our contract and we can relocate it on their behalf.

318. 1:39:33

     So follow up, Mr. Chairman.

319. 1:39:35

     Yes, sir.

320. 1:39:35

     So I g- I guess, so how often do they opt into that? It's probably pretty rare, is it not?

321. 1:39:41

     Um, it is, it is very common for municipalities and counties. Um, it happens occasionally for, uh, private for-profit utilities when we have large projects like major mobility investments or what we call a PID, which is public interest determination. Uh, we, we have many providers that opt to go into the contract and, and it works, frankly.

322. 1:40:12

     Um, but for a lot of our design bid build projects, the bulk majority are cities and counties.

323. 1:40:20

     So could you, uh, instead of doing something like this, which is a force, and I'm not trying to change your bill, uh, Chairman, but so could you have some kind of trigger that says even if they opted out, they want to move their own utilities, but y- your, your project's been held up for two years for them to change it, some kind of trigger that says, "If you hadn't done it in this amount of time, uh, y- we're gonna do it for you and you're gonna pay us back for it," instead of, instead of what we got here. Is that a possibility? Would that be something DOT would be open to, or would that...

324. 1:40:52

     Is even, is that even viable?

325. 1:40:57

     Um, I... Well, I think anything is viable if we work together on it. I, I thought I saw some language that said something to the extent if, if your facilities are... If you place your facilities in the contract and, and pay for the relocation, um, none of the other language will apply. So, so I mean, ultimately what that is saying is if, if you give us the ability to place it in the contract and relocate on your behalf, then there's really...

326. 1:41:28

     It's, it's a win-win. That, that's the point. It's a win-win for us, for them, for our contractors, et cetera. Um, so I... My belief is if, if we're able to come together, I think we can... If, if we're able to, to constructively work on mitigating our risk of being able to get a project delivered on time, um, and, and kind of place the control in, in the, uh, hands of the contractor to help, um, it, it seems like a viable option.

327. 1:42:07

     But that's, that's just me speaking. I'm not... There are a lot of other folks who probably have an opinion on that.

328. 1:42:13

     Right. Okay, thank you.

329. 1:42:16

     Mr. Chairman, um, I think the ultimate goal of this bill is to make a contract a contract. That's... You know, when, when, when they're doing the bidding and setting up to, to let one of the contracts, that what you see is that, that we as a, a taxpayer, we as a, uh, a legislator, if we're getting calls from our citizens, that we can say, "Yeah, this is when they said this project's going to be finished." Uh, the problem now is they, they have that utility adjustment schedule that can go past the, the contract finish date, and there's just no control over it.

330. 1:42:48

     It's just kind of there's that gray area that things get extended out. And the, the point, the main purpose of this bill is to say when these contracts are being d- developed or designed, that once it's, it's let, we know the schedule that everything's going to be, be taken care of. If the DOT thinks it needs to take longer, DOT can, can schedule out a longer contract. But it lets everybody from, from, uh, that w- is involved or could get a question about it, uh, to have an answer of the start and finish dates.

331. 1:43:23

     Okay, next up, Representative Ehrhart. There you go.

332. 1:43:27

     Thank you. Uh, thank you Rep- uh, Mr. Chairman, for, Chairman McDonald for bringing the bill, and thank you Mr. Fields for being here.

333. 1:43:34

     Yes, ma'am.

334. 1:43:34

     This might have been more than you expected. You okay? Um-

335. 1:43:40

     You made it.

336. 1:43:40

     We're, we're a lot. Um, you mentioned earlier, uh, that there are regular meetings and, uh, uh, coordination meetings with the utilities on specific projects as they-

337. 1:43:49

     Yes, ma'am

338. 1:43:49

     ... as you work through the process. My question is, um, does the DOT have a broad... Looking at the broader landscape, the relations between the utilities and the highway contractors, do you have regularly scheduled meetings to talk about larger and broader issues, uh, forums or... And, and if the answer is yes, I'm trying to stick to the one question request from Chairman Jasperse. My, my follow-up to that would be if the answer is yes, um, has the broader issue of relocation been thoroughly discussed with these utility partners and, and the highway contractors?

339. 1:44:21

     If I were to ask the utilities, "Do you feel that you've been heard, and that this has been fully vetted and discussed," what would they tell me?

340. 1:44:29

     That's a great question. So, so yes, we actually have qu- we have a quarterly meeting for... We have seven districts. We have quarterly meetings every, um, of course, every quarter. Um, we have broad engagement on a series of discussions there. Um, we also have, um, task forces that have been formed that includes our Georgia Utility Coordination Council, which represents utility owners, our highway contractors, Georgia DOT, our engineering consultants.

341. 1:45:03

     And, and of course, one of the many things we talk about there is utility adjustment schedules, project delays, et cetera. This should not be a surprise to any utility owner. It's, it's something that we have been talking about and, and facing for years now. Um, so I... If there is a utility owner surprised, I'd, I'd be... I'd want to know more.

342. 1:45:33

     Thank you.

343. 1:45:37

     You're welcome.

344. 1:45:39

     Next up, Chairman Carpenter.

345. 1:45:42

     So this has, uh, got me in a nice little conundrum here because I've experienced a utility dragging their feet on moving stuff that held up a construction project in front of my restaurant for about, uh, nine months. So I, I understand why you're here. There's a reason you're here. Um, I think it's probably important that we don't lump all utilities into the same basket. I have a feeling you're probably having frustrations with a certain group of utilities, and not all of them, but maybe two or three bad apples that are ruining it for the bunch.

346. 1:46:12

     Um, so my question is, have you evaluated legislation, or doing this legislation where you don't throw the baby out with the bath water, and you do attack the people that you're trying to hold hostage? Because as a legislator, I f- I feel like I can get better response out of DOT sometimes than utilities. So, uh, I mean, from my representation standpoint, to me, it's easier to thumb Geo- the GDOT than try to get 17 utilities at the same time. So have you evaluated a process for the bad apples?

347. 1:46:46

     Good question.

348. 1:46:50

     Thank you.

349. 1:46:51

     Yeah. I'm, I'm not really- I'm not really sure how-

350. 1:46:54

     I'm just saying.

351. 1:46:54

     Well, I, I definitely, you know, I, I don't wanna point fingers at any s- particular utility. Like, like I said, I, um, good, bad, indifferent, we're all partners and, and I, I value that. Um,

352. 1:47:11

     that's a very tough question to answer. Have, have I sat back and pondered that? Um, I'll... Apart from the, the bill, absolutely, but I- yes. I've heard someone say plead the Fifth. I probably should've just said that initially.

353. 1:47:30

     Is there a way to construct the legislation so that it, it attacks the people trying to

354. 1:47:34

     I, I-

355. 1:47:34

     ...

356. 1:47:34

     Oh, I'll, I'll s-

357. 1:47:35

     By saying

358. 1:47:36

     I know. I'm not, we're not here, I don't think, to pick winners and losers within our utilities. Uh, you know, we've talked about who, I think, uh, Chairman Powell talked, you know, that everything's, you know, kind of placed on, you know, DOT is kind of the, the, the bureaucratic agency in charge. Well, that's the, that's who is designed and, and, uh, working with the utilities, working with contractors, and I think they're the kind of policing agency that, you know, they put the, you know, their big fencing, you know, their five acres of fence and a tiny trailer out there on somebody's property, uh, to monitor all this.

359. 1:48:12

     I mean, that's their job. And, you know, I'll, you ultimately hold them responsible to keep the utilities and the contractors with a timeframe that they determine in the beginning. Again, that's the purpose is this, of this bill, is a schedule. I mean, you know, we raise our kids on a schedule to get them to do right. Um, you know, try to keep them, you know, at home, it, you know, and, and as, as they grow, keep them on their schedule. And I think this is kind of what I'd like to see with, with our transportation moving forward, is, is knowing what we have in front of us and where we have to work.

360. 1:48:46

     Okay. Next, next up, Chairman Thomas. And let's try to direct our questions to the bill sponsor. If he needs to throw a lifeline, he can.

361. 1:48:55

     Mr. Fields.

362. 1:48:57

     Well, I'll just take all the fun out of it.

363. 1:48:58

     That was practice.

364. 1:48:59

     For me.

365. 1:49:01

     Just practicing.

366. 1:49:04

     Um, I'm just gonna kind of go back. I, I think, first of all, I think your, that your heart's in the right place, and I think that you actually are trying to address an issue. Um, my concern with this piece of legislation or the way it's written is there's no flexibility for unknowns. Now, not the way that I read this bill. It doesn't, it says, it's very stringent in the fact that when I read-

367. 1:49:30

     But once, at line 69, once the removal, relocation or adjustment of facility is started, if such removal, relocation or adjustment falls behind for any reason scheduled by 20% or more than set forth in approved work plan, the department shall be authorized to then do these actions. But th- my problem is, is it doesn't, to me it, it, it puts all of the control on GDOT of to decide whether they want to put somebody's feet to the coals or not, and it doesn't address, I think, legislative intendedly, uh, any legislative intent that says, "Hey, we do also understand that there are circumstances where..." You know, I'm gonna tell you, I, I've done a lot of projects in my life, and rarely do I dig underground and not find something I didn't know was there.

368. 1:50:13

     Um, and I, and I just, I just wanna make sure whatever it is that we do, it's, it's in a balanced approach that does protect, you know, the utilities that are trying to be good actors, and I think that kind of hits on what the Kasey Carpenter was ta- or Representative Carter, Carpenter was talking about. Kasey. Um, so, you know, I guess the next part of that question being like, why is this not s- why this is something that needs to be pushed statutorily? Why isn't this something that you can just negotiate in your contracts? I mean, that to me that seems like that's the time. You know, I'm, I'm a Warren Buffett person, I always tell everybody the best time to negotiate a contract's up front.

369. 1:50:48

     So I mean, does this have to be addressed statutorily, or can you just work with them one-on-one through your contracts to make sure that these, you know, provisions are locked in, you know, where everybody has a say at the table?

370. 1:51:00

     Well-

371. 1:51:00

     And, and that was my first question.

372. 1:51:02

     I'll, I'll-

373. 1:51:03

     Oh, yeah. Oh, I'm sorry. Th- Lauren, I'm supposed to direct them at you.

374. 1:51:05

     Yeah. I mean, I-

375. 1:51:06

     Yeah.

376. 1:51:06

     Different than Representative McCollum-

377. 1:51:08

     Yeah

378. 1:51:08

     ... uh, his comment, you, you're the guy that would tell us you're the smartest guy in the room. So, um-

379. 1:51:14

     Oh, man.

380. 1:51:15

     Oh, you're making friends now, huh? I beli- I believe, uh, I believe, uh, I believe the chairman say, uh, better back up there a little bit.

381. 1:51:26

     I'm sorry. Okay. O- okay.

382. 1:51:28

     Didn't say that. Sorry. I love you.

383. 1:51:30

     Yeah. I love you too, brother.

384. 1:51:31

     Yeah.

385. 1:51:31

     You know, we're, it's all good.

386. 1:51:34

     And, and I hear what you're saying, and, you know, you hate to codify things, but I mean, just like saving girl sports, hey, we did it two years before we codified it all. We really saved it, and then the Georgia High School Association, you know, voted 64 to zero to one that men were not playing girl sports. But we had a hero that wanted to codify it, and, and we put it, you know, into, into code. So sometimes you gotta kinda put it, you know, in, in, in, into what people can understand, and a responsibility that we as legislators have to our taxpayers to, to, to supporting Department of Transportation to keep these contracts moving forward.

387. 1:52:12

     And like I said, again, we're not here to pick winners and losers in this.

388. 1:52:15

     Yeah.

389. 1:52:15

     We're, we're trying to find a common goal as all this money's about to be infused in transportation, um, in- into our budgets, that we need to be look and have the forethought to say, "We need to get rid of these problems." I mean, I hold DOT responsible. I mean, I look at them and, and say, "Guys, you know, if, if y'all can't do it, we can fix it this way and give y'all some parameters to work within." I mean, DOT needs ex- ex- extend these contracts out, uh, for the unknowns. I'd love to hear what some of your unknowns might be.

390. 1:52:43

     Oh, I can give you several.

391. 1:52:45

     Okay. Well-

392. 1:52:45

     But we won't have to do that here.

393. 1:52:46

     Okay.

394. 1:52:46

     I, I'm trying to help you make the bill, uh, better-

395. 1:52:48

     No, I get it

396. 1:52:49

     ... at some point in the process. Um, can I just mention one other thing, though, if you don't mind, Mr. Chairman?

397. 1:52:53

     Yeah, let's keep this moving pretty quick.

398. 1:52:54

     It, I mean, it was really quick, and this is kind of alludes to my biggest concern.

399. 1:52:58

     Yes, sir.

400. 1:52:58

     My biggest concern is whenever I price out anything as, at, at, in an engineering firm, the first thing I look at is what are my unknowns, or what, what risk do I have to take? 'Cause, uh, in ultimately in construction and engineering, it's always about the, the amount of risk I have to take. And if I read something that puts more risk on me, the only thing I'm going to do to mitigate that on my side is raise my price. So I don't necessar- I know what you're trying to do, and I think that it's the right direction, and I think you're doing the right things.

401. 1:53:28

     I'm just concerned that, um, unintended, the people that are doing this are just gonna raise their costs to, to overcome anything that they don't know, because there's no, you know, relief valve, I guess, for un- un- any unknowns that m- that may be. So I'd be happy to talk to you about it. I just tell you, that's my o- kind of my only concerns. The, the only relief valve that we even had in this was the medi- this, um, mediation process, and it's now removed.

402. 1:53:56

     Well, uh, Rep- Chairman Thomas, I think that, you know, we know Georgia terrain. There's, you know, been work. I, I think there's, there's gonna be some history to, to the areas that they're working in. I'm, and I'm speaking for DOT. Y'all, before these contracts are let, I'm sure they've done tests and studies and, you know, they know the Sawnee Mountain is, there's a huge vein of, of, of rock coming off of it if you're having to dig and, and, and, and move dirt. Um, so I don't know all the ins and outs of, of the con- contractual side, um, of construction.

403. 1:54:28

     But I, I, I hear what you're saying, but I still think that we need a timeline to say, "Project starts here. Project ends here." And, you know, they can con- I guess, have the opportunity to, or the authority to, you know, if they, they wanna make an extension or change, they can. Uh, that's, that's gonna be DOT.

404. 1:54:47

     The, uh, the, uh, may I cut in?

405. 1:54:49

     Yeah. I turned you off.

406. 1:54:50

     Got it. Don't mind. Committee, what I'm gonna do, uh, Ms. Danny just told me I have 17 minutes, and this, uh, different committee's gonna be in here. So hold your questions. We'll let, let the lights blink. But I'm gonna go ahead, and, uh, Mr. Fields, you can take a breath and

407. 1:55:10

     and let some of the people who would like to speak for or against this, uh, proposal come and speak. So we'll start off with, uh, Stephanie Grossimer from Georgia Power. Next up will be Jason Bragg, and then Elizabeth Reynolds. I'll kind of give you... So if you'd just come to the podium, Stephanie, and there you go

408. 1:55:35

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Um, I think what you'll hear in my comments kinda resonate with some of the conversation already, uh, as well as reflects the partnership Mr. Field spoke about. So my name is Stephanie Gossman, and I'm the general manager of planning and policy at Georgia Power, where my responsibilities are focused on planning a clean, safe, reliable, affordable grid of the future, as well as monitoring the policies that enable that- those plans. As we are all aware and proud to say, Georgia remains the top state to do business 12 consecutive years running, and we're seeing that growth statewide.

409. 1:56:08

     There are several key factors that help attract and realize successful growth across the state, including the infrastructure that we already have in place and that we can provide to support residents and businesses alike. In fact, two of Georgia's strongest competitive advantages are our transportation infrastructure, combined with a reliable and affordable electric grid. And it's the coordination among these infrastructure sectors, and many others, that will ensure that we continue to grow in a successful and sustainable way.

410. 1:56:39

     This bill focuses on the coordination of transportation infrastructure build-out with other entities, the importance of which cannot be overstated. Even so, we are not in favor of this legislation because the matters it addresses are policy and procedure issues that do not require legislation. In fact, there are four main areas of coordination that already exist today that I would like to highlight. These activities will demonstrate how Georgia Power, GDOT, and other critical stakeholders are actively collaborating to address some of the concerns that are raised in this bill.

411. 1:57:12

     First, Georgia Power has a strong performance record supporting projects released by GDOT. In fact, approximately 95% of Georgia Power's projects are completed on time in accordance with the schedules that are already approved through an existing review process that is led by GDOT. Second, in the process of supporting GDOT projects, both Georgia Power and GDOT have demonstrated flexibility to accelerate projects where possible. For example, GDOT has allowed for extended work hours on some projects for Georgia Power.

412. 1:57:43

     That has led to some reduced project durations. Also, at Georgia Power, we have worked with GDOT to find opportunities to accelerate work activities such as right-of-way acquisition or construction activities to reduce project timelines. Third, since many parties are required to, for the successful outcome of these projects, sometimes conflicts arise. This is where the escalation and mediation process is used to help resolve those conflicts. This bill strips the beneficial mediation process from Georgia law, which is currently used to ensure unbiased third-party oversight and fair outcomes to entities involved in a dispute.

413. 1:58:20

     Fourth, and finally, this industry is already highly collaborative and engaged in Georgia. In fact, as was mentioned earlier, the Georgia Utilities Coordinating Council, the GUCC, already exists with a committee expressly dedicated to address project timing and coordination issues. Georgia Power, GDOT, and many other utilities and stakeholders are actively engaged in this committee and the GUCC overall, including board membership. These examples demonstrate that there are many existing mechanisms in place today that allow us to successfully plan and execute transportation projects that require relocation with utilities like Georgia Power.

414. 1:58:59

     Beyond serving our 2.8 million customers, we are proud to support GDOT's and others' efforts to ensure timely and affordable build-out of infrastructure that Georgians depend on. Thank you for your time and your consideration. I'm open to any questions.

415. 1:59:13

     Thank you, ma'am. S- thank you, ma'am. We'll keep moving 'cause we got, we're on the timeline here. Jason Bragg. Please don't repeat what just heard.

416. 1:59:22

     I'll do my best, Mr. Chairman. Um, Mr. Chairman, I have with me members of the committee, um, Jason Bragg, uh, vice president government relations at Georgia EMC, representing the state's 41 electric membership cooperatives. Um, I have with me Chris Stevens, who's the CEO of Cal- Coweta Fayette EMC down in Palmetto, who, uh, incidentally had a, uh, legislative lunch scheduled here months ago, and so received a battlefield, battlefield commission to come up and testify with us on this today. So, um, from speaking with the author of the bill, Chairman McDonald, um, appreciate his time both this morning and yesterday, talking with us about our concerns about the bill.

417. 1:59:54

     Um, as I said, we understand his goal, and I think that that's the, ultimately the place we want to get. Unfortunately, we just don't think that currently, in its current state, 1342 is probably the way to go there. Um, we've gotten some pl- preliminary feedback from our members. Obviously, this was released just the other day, and, uh, I can tell you there's a lot of concern amongst our EMCs that we've shared this with. Um, and, uh, they, uh, they are sh- they are certainly sharing their concerns with us, and I wanted to lay out some of those here and also have Chris here in case you have questions about the process. Um, Chairman McDonald pres- uh, expresses frustration with the utilities, um, with their so-called stub poles that are left in the right of way, um, frustration we share.

418. 2:00:31

     I think it's important for the committee to understand, um, what those are and why they exist. Um, not to... Uh, this won't be repeating anybody, but I think that'll give you a better understanding of kind of where we play in this important role, um, between both our state's utilities and our friends and our partners at GDOT. So Chris, if you don't mind, I want Chris to kind of explain that issue. Chris?

419. 2:00:50

     Thank you.

420. 2:00:51

     Thank you, Jason. Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity. And I just want to kind of highlight, Mr. Fields did a really good job in talking about the process, and so I won't really dive into the process other than the fact to explain how the electric utilities are affected when we go through this. And, and so after the design, we mentioned the final design. Once we have that, we actually negotiate with the DOT this utility adjusting schedule that he referred to. So this is something we've agreed to. So we've got a time limit in which we start. So, and typically in a r- in a right of way for electric utility, we're the first to go.

421. 2:01:23

     Um, we're at the top of the pole. We're usually the pole, pole owners. So we'll be the ones who first locate our facilities. And we'll top our poles, the stub pole you referred to. Once we're done with that process, the contractor will notify the next to go. And so then the next has their timeframe, and they have the same UAS schedule, so not the same, but they have negotiated theirs. So they have a timeframe to work within as well, so. And then it continues through the process until the last communications provider, usually a telco at the bottom, uh- Gets off the pole onto the new pole line, and then we'll go out and rel- remove our poles.

422. 2:01:55

     So that's the process from the electric utility standpoint. And so just want to kinda say that, but, you know, we as an electric utility have had very few problems, um, with the current process. I mean, from the electric utility side, and I certainly can speak from Coweta-Fayette EMC, I am an engineer. Haven't practiced engineering in a few years since I've been in this role, but the fact of it is, we have had very few issues with the DOT. Um, in fact, they've been good partners of ours, as referred to earlier. So I'm not sure where this is driving to, but certainly wanna thank, um, this bill as it's written.

423. 2:02:28

     You know, it does certainly, you know, have some concerns. I mean, it may have solved the problem from the perspective of the DOT, but it's punitive to the EMCs and the other utilities, and it certainly penalizes those good actors that are out there doing the right thing. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'll be happy to answer any questions.

424. 2:02:45

     Thank you. Thank you. What y'all do-

425. 2:02:48

     C-

426. 2:02:48

     ... appreciate. Yeah, go ahead

427. 2:02:49

     ... just wanna lay out our... and I think we share Georgia Power's concerns. Um, I just wanted to lay out our four top concerns, if you don't mind, really quick, Mr. Chairman.

428. 2:02:56

     Sure.

429. 2:02:57

     Um, one, um, I think it was, uh, Chairman Powell's question about kinda, uh, GDOT having, um, absolute and unchecked authority under this bill. That's certainly one of our concerns. Second, um, the, uh, the, the liability issue that Chairman Thomas mentioned about delays. You know, some of those obviously can be unforeseen, weather, things like that. Certainly share that concern. Um, the revocation of, uh, GDOT permits that I think Representative Clifton mentioned earlier is another concern that we share. And finally, um, to Chair- again, to Chairman Powell's question, the, uh, the, the, um, striking of the, the, uh, the striking of the, uh, current mediation process is something concerning to us and really something that we see is could, um, could add, you know, increased costs for our members that ultimately, as co-ops, would have to be passed down to other members.

430. 2:03:41

     We think mediation is the perfect place to solve some of those complex disputes if they have to get to that level. So with that, Mr. Chairman, I'll yield my time and let the rest of the folks come to talk.

431. 2:03:50

     All right.

432. 2:03:50

     Thank you.

433. 2:03:50

     Well, thank you. Thank you, Jason. M- Ms. Reynolds.

434. 2:03:58

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, good afternoon, everyone. Elizabeth Reynolds, I'm Senior Director of Government Affairs for AT&T in Georgia. And appreciate the opportunity to share our concerns, and also wanna say thank you to Chairman McDonald for meeting with us, and the opportunity to talk to him about those concerns as well. Um, AT&T has a long history of operating in the state. We are approaching 150 years of prov- providing connectivity in Georgia, and we continue to invest heavily. In fact, in the last five years alone, we've invested more than $16.9 billion in our networks in the state of Georgia.

435. 2:04:30

     Um, first, let me say, we appreciate the frustration around this issue. We certainly understand that the longer a project goes on, the greater the inconvenience for the community, uh, but also for the department, the contractor, and for the utilities that are involved. Um, I haven't seen the substitute, but the original bill, we are opposed to House Bill 1342 as written. Utility relocation is a very complex issue with a lot of moving parts, literally. Every utility is different, and every job is different. A job that may seem simple from a road design perspective could be incredibly complex depending on the number and types of facilities that are involved.

436. 2:05:07

     Um, two points that I wanted to bring very quickly to the committee. You've heard a lot about the utility, um, schedule, the UAS. Um, there's a very specific order to that. The last gentleman talked about the fact that the power company goes first. It's power, then it's typically cable, and then telecom. So we are usually the last ones to go. Um, so if a job has been delayed for any number of reasons, whether it was weather, um, you know, redesign, anything that occurs, by the time the job gets to us, if there is a delay, folks are already frustrated.

437. 2:05:38

     Um, so we certainly hear a lot about that. Um, we are by no means perfect. I think anyone in this conversation would not say that they are blameless, but it's also a reality that, you know, due to the order of the project schedule, we hear a lot from folks and, and bear a brunt of that frustration, and, you know, project may be behind before we're even starting to work on it. The other piece is that GDOT has a 10-chapter utility accommodation manual, and there are two chapters that are dedicated to looking at the relocation process, um, and include escalation processes that have already been mentioned.

438. 2:06:12

     And so we would certainly welcome a conversation around a thoughtful, solution-oriented, um, changes to the UAM, but we think that that is the appropriate venue to do that. So thank you.

439. 2:06:23

     Thank you very much. Okay, we're gonna move around a little bit. David Mullering. Now, we gotta-- Lawrence gotten beaten up three times, so- ... here, here's a friend. He deserved it. But, uh-

440. 2:06:37

     Lawrence, I got your back.

441. 2:06:38

     Um-

442. 2:06:40

     I'm here representing the Georgia Highway Contractors Association. I'm David Mullering. And, um, we're the guys that are caught in between all this. So we're, we're, we're the contractors. Um, I think if you were to see the projects that we bid, um, as we prepare for our bids, and matter of fact, tomorrow is bid day for us, um, we experience, uh, utility adjustment schedules as part of the schedule that we're expected to keep. So there's a project schedule which has a drop-dead date, and then a utility adjustment schedule that, that is communicated to us up front as to how long it, it could take for the utilities to be, to be, uh, moved.

443. 2:07:19

     The utility adjustments typically, um, and I say typically because this happens much more than once, um, in most months, um, are a year to three years f- um, out from when our completion date is actually, um, required for us to complete our project. Now, I will tell you that, that we have some great partners in these utilities, and, and they do work with us in a lot of cases. However, when we start gettin', when we get into issues around escalation, it's very hard for us to escalate any issue because they're not typically out of their, what, what, out of a schedule that they've already given So what happens to us is that essentially we have to, uh, try to extend our contract in order to meet what their, their ability to get the work done is.

444. 2:08:08

     And so what happens to us when the, when we get to the end of a project, we enter what's called liquidated damages. Liquidated damages, uh, is a trigger that essentially can shut off the money for us. So essentially, we build the rest of the project under a dispute. So we have to work with the department to then try to get additional time to even get our, to get the dollars restarted that we, um, are entitled from doing the work because of the way that that whole process works. So that puts us in a very tough position, and I think if, if...

445. 2:08:42

     I, I would, would bet that none of you would probably take a contract that, that essentially you have to be done before all the work has to really be completed. Now, you may look at us and say, "Well, why in the world do you do it?" Well, unfortunately, that's the game that we're in. And the, the point was made, what if the contractors took on the, the, um, the relocation? We are absolutely open to that, and we've done that in a lot of cases and, and have had great success with that. I would ask you to, to, to, uh, really consider us getting these, these utility adjustment schedules compressed because e- e- either they have to be compressed or the contract time has to be extended because we're put in conflict on almost all these construction projects.

446. 2:09:25

     I've actually brought a couple of my contractors with me 'cause I want you to hear from them firsthand the process that they go through. Um, and, and the first thing they're gonna tell you is that we coordinate on a regular basis.

447. 2:09:36

     David, you need to let them speak 'cause we're gonna run out of time.

448. 2:09:38

     All right. Sure. Go ahead. Brett, you want to start?

449. 2:09:48

     Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I'll run through this pretty quick. I'm Brett Johnson with Vertical Earth, and a few of the projects we have going right now, we work around the state. We have offices in Cumming and Savannah and, uh, work on many GDOT projects. And I've got here about six projects. Um, one, Highway 9 widening there in Forsyth County, we're doing it right now. Had a 23-month, uh, construction schedule. Because of utility delays, it's gonna be a 38-month project. Uh, we have Highway 515 that we're working on. Uh, we are 10 months delayed right now on a utility, and we don't have a completion date on when they'll be out of our way.

450. 2:10:19

     And this is outside of what their UAS... You've heard about the UAS's today. This is outside of what their UAS has said they would be done, which they get to make that schedule themselves. That's not GDOT telling them when to be done. That's not us telling them when to be done. They dictate that. And as David said earlier, a lot of times we bid these jobs, and that's what I'll get to here, we have a completion time. It may be a three-year contract. Well, on the day we get that contract, it's actually eight years of utilities. So we're in conflict on day one. So there's really...

451. 2:10:49

     We have to start negotiating with the department the first day we're on the job. Um, here on 441, we've got a, it's got a six-year utility adjustment schedule. The project date was three and a half years. So there's a two and a half year conflict. So we're not talking about an unforeseen where somebody hit a rock.

452. 2:11:05

     You can't hear him.

453. 2:11:05

     This is grossly, grossly months and years in conflict. Uh, 441 phase two, again, six years, three and a half year contract. Um, and then we've got one on Howard Road. There were eight utilities that are in conflict. Only two turned in UAS's before the contract started. So we have six con- six conflicts that we have completely unknown schedules on on the first day. There's nothing we can do there. So the traveling public gets to deal with that longer. You get questions about, "Why is this job not done? Why are they sitting there? Why are they not working?

454. 2:11:36

     The sun's shining, they could be working," and they're not. So yes, there's a law in place, as you can see here. This one's been edited. Uh, Representative McDonald's done a great job, I think, trying to bring this. There's a lot of great partners in the utility industry that we work with every day. There's a couple who don't, and that's why we have to have laws. There's guys who drive by the speed limit, and there's people who don't. So that's why you have to make a law for it. So unfortunately, I feel like that's where we are. Thank you.

455. 2:12:01

     Thank you, Brett.

456. 2:12:05

     So, Shawn, go ahead. We're, we're about out of time, y'all, as you see the other committee, but let's, let's keep on going.

457. 2:12:12

     Thank you. Uh, thank you, Chairman.

458. 2:12:13

     I got one more I want to hear after you.

459. 2:12:14

     Uh, thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman and committee. Uh, my name's Joseph Martin. I'm with ER Snell Contractor. And, uh, just to re- reiterate everything that David and, uh, Vertical Earth are speaking on, we do have the same problems. We have many contracts where we've got a, uh, completion date. Uh, one example in Athens, we've got one that's got a completion date of, um, I think April of 2027, and the utilities are not supposed to be done until 2029. It is, it's common.

460. 2:12:45

     Um, and I do believe that the problems we face is basically everybody's trying to get liability off of them. Everybody's pointing fingers and trying to protect themselves in these contracts. If we can get to the root of the problem, um, and get, um, many of the issues with utility adjustments where they're extending times to protect themselves, if we can get that eliminated, I, I, I stand with David and with Nick. We have a lot of stakeholders in this, uh, in this room and in our industry that we are friends with.

461. 2:13:16

     We do wanna have, um, good communication with them and open communication, but we do have to get to a point to where we can get these utility adjustment schedules in a feasible timeline that is before our contract date and give us time to build the roads that are in front of us. Uh, we, we do wanna provide a good product to you guys on time, but right now the constraints that we've got with the, uh, utility relocation process is so far extended, it just, it handcuffs us.

462. 2:13:46

     Thank you, Joey. Sorry to run out of time. I wanna call on Representative Cox, wants to make a comment.

463. 2:13:59

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So for a second, I want to take off being a representative and actually being someone that's, that's endured this for the past couple years. Actually, we were in negotiations where a roundabout was being put in at, in front of our home up in, uh, on the Forsyth-Dawson County line. Um, before I was actually elected, we were working on all kinds of studies, and GDOT did a fantastic job. And, um, but I... but moving forward, as we, as we moved along, we ran into, uh...

464. 2:14:30

     we've noticed a lot of issues out in front of our home. And of course, my constituent is my wife, so so I want you to know. But let me ask y'all a question. In here, where you represent, how many of you currently have delays on projects where you represent? Any? Okay. I mean, it's, it's, it's a common thing, and we know this. And, and Chairman Thomas, you, you brought it, and I'm in that same world of, of construction. These things happen. But the thing that I've noticed the most is we're talking about processes.

465. 2:15:02

     Well, Coach Saban's the one that talks about the process better than anybody, and I'm a Georgia fan. But I want you to know, um, the process, I believe, is broken. The fact that we have contracts, and we are definitely gonna have, um, things we find in the field, there's 100% true, and, and there are some guesstimates that are very helpful along the way, but we need one schedule. The reality is either, either the schedule that these, that the Georgia highway contractors are using is clearly too short, and the utilities is much longer.

466. 2:15:40

     And I've actually heard from one, from one year, I've heard four and five-year utility issues that are currently happening in this state. That has nothing to do against the utility companies. We have a problem. The problem could be what's found in the field, and I'm gonna respect that. But we've got to consolidate this to one contract. How can you be a contractor that bids a job, and you can't finish the job because utilities isn't even solved when their project's supposed to be done? It's broken.

467. 2:16:11

     We just simply need to fix it. Um, for instance, at my own home, at, with my own dollar, um, I ask a simple thing, can we bury a pole? Some poles were put in a certain place, and I could have had my friends come over and pull the poles quickly. It took longer than it needed to, and then the, the power and the utilities were ran to this other pole. But I ask the question, I want to personally pay to have this power buried underground.

468. 2:16:41

     I had a bid from some of my electricians on how long that would take. It took them about four days to give me the number. Three months before I got the price, and by the time I got it, it was too late. Power's ran over- overhead. I was trying to avoid that, wasting that money. We can be more efficient. We can get better at this. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Any questions, I'd be more than glad to answer them.

469. 2:17:06

     Thank you, Representative.

470. 2:17:08

     Okay.

471. 2:17:09

     So we're out of time. I asked Chairman Powell for just a few more minutes. I'd like, uh, Chairman McDonald to go ahead, just kind of sum it up, then I've got some different buttons I'm gonna listen to.

472. 2:17:19

     Well, I, I really don't have anything else to say, but I think we've heard enough of, as far as the testimony from, from the sides with the, with the, with the concerns.

473. 2:17:29

     Okay. All righty. So I'm gonna call on Chairman Hagan.

474. 2:17:36

     Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman McDonald, I want you to know I fully agree with your intent here with this legislation. In fact, I think that, um, this is an issue that goes further than just G- GDOT projects. In fact, I have, um, a company down in Southwest Georgia who, Southeast Georgia, that lays fiber optic cable and has communicated with me multiple times over the years that their projects are delayed continually four days, if not weeks, waiting on the utilities to come and, and do their job. It costing them thousands of dollars a day plus time wasted.

475. 2:18:09

     So this is definitely an issue, and I, I thank you for bringing it to us and all your work on it. But Mr. Chairman, I think at this point we do need continued discussion and work on this legislation. So I would make a motion that we table House Bill 1342 at this time.

476. 2:18:26

     Okay.

477. 2:18:27

     Second.

478. 2:18:28

     We have a motion to table and a second. You know, those take precedence over any other motions. All those in favor, aye.

479. 2:18:34

     Aye.

480. 2:18:35

     All those opposed. Hearing none, this, this motion is tabled, but with a caveat to all those in the room. You need to talk to Chairman McDonald. I mean, he... I think you hear our concern. You hear the concern of everybody around. And it might be a di- and if I need to, I'll be glad to put everybody in a room and try to wrestle this thing out. Uh, Chairman Powell taught me well that many times that's the way to do this, just put a, get everybody in a room and lock the door.

481. 2:19:06

     So, um, with that, but I just want to apologize to David Jenkins. You're good. We'll hear from him next week. Our meeting is adjourned. Thank you.

482. 2:19:17

     I was about to make a motion do pass. I'm on the committee. You beat me to it. I was gonna do it. I swear to God I was. You still looking good. Thank you, baby.

483. 2:19:30

     I love you. I love you too.