House Banks & Banking Committee, March 17, 2026

Transcript

261 turns. Select a time to play that moment of the video.

1. 0:17:08

   Yeah. Uh, good, good.

2. 0:17:14

   That's the only person who's got this.

3. 0:17:15

   Huh?

4. 0:17:16

   Texas is the only people who's got this. Let's go.

5. 0:19:26

   Good morning, everybody. We'll call this meeting to order. Um, I ask-

6. 0:19:35

   Representative Mitchell, you ready?

7. 0:19:37

   I am ready.

8. 0:19:38

   All right. Good morning, everybody. I wanna ask, um, Representative Dunahoo if he'll give the invocation, please.

9. 0:19:46

   Father, we lift You up, Lord. We give You praise and glory. We just pray that, Lord, You open our minds clearly and help us to do what's right for our state, for our constituents. Be with our families, watch over and protect them as we're away. We pray, Heavenly Father, in Jesus' name. Amen.

10. 0:20:03

    Amen. Good morning, uh, again. And at this time, I am going to turn the meeting over to Senator Harbin. He's presenting to us today about gold and silver as currency, and I'm gonna turn it over to you, sir.

11. 0:20:19

    Chairman and members of the committee, um, a different subject matter than we deal with most of the time, but, uh, it is one, is, uh, transactional gold and silver is happening in many, many states. We already have five states, including Florida, who has, uh, passed legislation in that re- respect to look at gold and silver as legal tender, and it really comes a- around from the issue of our Constitution in Article 1 in Section 10, uh, as this there. Um, I don't have control, she does.

12. 0:20:50

    Uh, you know, and, and the question is this: right now, if I could, uh, do this,

13. 0:20:57

    I have in my wallet right here

14. 0:21:05

    a one-ounce gold coin. That one-ounce gold coin is currently worth about $5,000. Most people don't own gold and silver because if I want to spend this to buy a cup of coffee, I have to go, and I have to go to a broker, and I have to sell it, and I have to convert it into cash. And so that makes gold hard to do, uh, hard to transact business from that standpoint. Currently, the technology is out there.

15. 0:21:35

    This one is one I'm not, uh, but not for a particular vendor. That's the part of the bill will do. But I have a debit card that's here, and I'll show you some of the slides, and I can take this debit card, and I have a go- gold in my gold account. I can swipe this. My favorite place is Chick-fil-A, and I say, "Chick-fil-A, can I pay, uh, can I pay for this, uh, chicken sandwich or this milkshake in gold?" And they look at you a little funny and says, "We don't take gold." I said, "That's okay. I can use my debit card to swipe my gold account and fractionally spend what's in my g- gold account." And so that's, that's really where we wanna look at.

16. 0:22:14

    And here's the issue. We have the gold dome, but many of our citizens cannot afford what it would take to buy one ounce of gold. But with a fractional gold system of transactions, they could buy $100, they could buy $50, they could do whatever they want to, and not only have, but have tremendous liquidity instantly with a debit card that's tied to their gold account, and that's what's happening in the various states that we're already seeing as far as that. Next slide, please.

17. 0:22:46

    Someone says, "Why?" Inflation. Well, excuse me. Uh, it is our national debt. Our national debt continues to rise to the degree that $39 trillion, and I don't think we really understand how much money that is, but when you figure that 20% of just the interest rates that we are having to pay towards the debts challenges our value of our money. I've said this, is they can tax you, tax me, or print money they don't have that makes your money and my money worthless.

18. 0:23:18

    That is what has caused a great deal of the inflation that we are facing today. You know, carbon monoxide is a very, very interesting, um, element. You can't see it, taste it, or smell it, but it still has a de- a, a devastating effect, and what it does, it reduces the purchasing power of our dollar, and that's the part that we're dealing with today. If we look at inflation, true inflation rates are very different in different areas, but inflation is c- coming in, and people say, "Well, my dollar doesn't buy as much, but I can't afford the housing that's there." Part of that is inflationary, but the average Georgian has no opportunities to be able to hold a gold substance that is a stable value.

19. 0:24:06

    It's been around for 6,000 years. That's a part of it that we look at. Next slide, please. Affordability is the issue. Where do I hold my money? Where can I put my money as a stable store of value and be able to access it instantly or, uh, very instantly without having to go through a great deal of the steps that you have to do if you go through the normal channels of going to the broker and getting your money done? This gives you access to money so that a family could be saving, and let's say they have an emergency, and the, the car has a flat tire, and they need to buy a new set of tires.

20. 0:24:44

    That investment account or that, that store of value that's there is available for them to be able to swipe a card and to pay for that. Next, please. Where, where does this come from? Our Founding Fathers were geniuses in a lot of ways, and you gotta understand what they had gone through. The value of the money had gone up and down when we were under the rule of the, of the, of the British. It had gone up and down with the pound. They also, prior to coming together with the Constitution, each state was issuing currency.

21. 0:25:15

    There was an issue that was going on, and our Founding Fathers came back, and what they did is they looked at the Constitution and said States cannot issue currency, but they can have gold and silver depositories where gold could be stored under the auspices of the government as far as a regulatory body, guardrails if you will, and they could do that. In the 1800s, not unusual, uh, someone would put their gold in the bank for safekeeping, 'cause that's where they wanted to keep it, and you could write a check for gold, and the other person could go to the bank and cash that check for gold or silver.

22. 0:25:49

    That was av- available to them. And if you look at the, a quote from the Constitution, y- you have the ability for gold and silver to be able to be legal tender, and that's part of our, our process. That gold is money, but how do we make it spend like money? First, it needs to be legal tender as far as that portion a- and that respect. So that's the part that I see, is that Georgia needs to exercise its rights under the Constitution to be able to allow our citizens to be able to own gold and silver.

23. 0:26:22

    It's a constitutional right. Think about this. One of the things we've done, we depend too greatly upon, in my opinion, the federal government. This is a part that our Founding Fathers gave us an opportunity that we can hold it as, as it would be owned by Georgians, regulated, if you will, by the Georgians that are there. Next, please. Here's what's interesting. If you look at what's going on with gold, gold is a tier one asset for banks. Banks are investing in gold because it's a stable force.

24. 0:26:54

    It doesn't m- move as rapidly as other assets. So that banks are buying gold and putting that on their balance sheet, and this, you'll find, is on a world basis, banks are buying more and more gold because they see it as a stable value that they need in their portfolio. The state of Utah put part of their surplus account into gold, and it almost doubled over the last 18 months because they see it as a store of value for the state of, of Utah, if you will.

25. 0:27:25

    Excuse me, Chairman, we have a question. Number 25. Sorry, I, Mr. Chairman, I, I was just boo- get in line whenever he takes questions, but, uh- Oh, okay. I thought you had a question. No, I, I'm sorry, doing nothing. Just... Okay. So yeah, I'm sorry. Okay. That's better. Thank you. Next slide, please. This is what's happening around the country. If you'll look, the stars are those states that have already exercised their rights under the Constitution to create a transactional gold. Florida did it last year if you, uh, d- Sen- uh, Governor DeSantis led that, uh, and then, uh, they just passed all the rules and regs on it, uh, last two weeks.

26. 0:28:04

    And then if you see the, uh, red squares that are there, those are states that are in the process of their legislation in '25, '26. They are looking at doing, uh, transactional gold and silver for their states. So there's a movement, if you look at what's going on around the country, where people are looking this and legislators are looking at this. Next slide. These are just some of the statements from governors as far as what we're seeing, um, from a standpoint. There's Arkansas, uh, Louisiana, Texas. Texas was our first state to have a depository.

27. 0:28:37

    About five years ago, they created and had a pu- public/private, um, depository built as far as that portion, and that's not what I think is the best way, and we're gonna talk a little bit about that, but they were the first, and they just put their transactional gold. That is the ability to transact business in a card format, if you will, or fractional part that's there. Next slide, please. Here's what, uh, the bill basically... Whoops, there you go. Goes back and does basically with the state treasurer, and I'm sorry, I did not introduce, we have Representative Scott, um- Austinson ...

28. 0:29:11

    Aus- here from the Treasurer's Office, and we've talked a little bit about how that would operate as an over-administrative type person that would look at it, but would not have a vote in the process, a non-voting. And then the, the President of the Senate, the Governor, and the President of the House would each have appointments, two from the House, two from the Senate, and one from the Governor, and this is basically a commission to look at how do we do the RFPs. This would be open to, open to, an open market process of storage and of, of transactions, if you will.

29. 0:29:45

    Next slide. If you look at what's going on here, they would create and create the rules, promulgate the rules, what needs to be done, and what we would see is a, um, bullion depositories that would be there. We've talked to Brinks being one. Brinks can c- open up relatively quick. They are private, and if you look, there is a letter from, um... We had a, a, the cost. There's no cost because the fees would be paid for storage by the pres- those people who had gold.

30. 0:30:16

    They would pay a monthly fee, and I'll talk about that a little bit more as we go, to the depository, and then the transaction fees for the debit cards would take care of the other parts. And so that the state... Go back, if you will. The state would have a depository side and then a electronic payment side, and those would be o- open for RFPs for what's the best for the citizens of Georgia, what's the best pricing, and there can be multiples. The way we are, it could be multiples that are there.

31. 0:30:47

    Let's let the open market get our pricing where it needs to be to the best. And then the a- the account holder could buy, sell, save, or spend that money that's in his account, if you will. Next. No cost to the states. There's a letter, letter up there that you can see, that for the depository and for the transactions, those are self-sustaining in their nature from what goes on there. Next. What we're seeing today is this. People are able to transact business. You've got Bitcoin, but Bitcoin is not constitutional, and that's the one reason that I believe that gold and silver should be the only two, because they are constitutional.

32. 0:31:25

    There is case law in the Supreme Court in the 1800s for gold and silver and how it was handled. But debit cards or credit cards have been used for transacting business in ways that we've not seen it. Next slide. This is a c- a, a, just a mock card, if you will, for the State of Georgia, and it would be what would tie a citizen to his gold account. And I'm gonna show you, uh, I call it a proof of concept. It's one that is, uh, that's, uh, I've been, I've been work- working with for 24 months, just kinda seeing how does it work, what does it do.

33. 0:31:59

    And this is a debit card, but I'll show you what the transactional side, if you will. Next slide, please. This is my account. Over 20- about 24 months ago, I put $300 into my account. Uh, if you look at it, it's 321 now. You can also see that you can purchase silver or gold or, or transact business with silver or gold at this screen level. Next, please. This, if you can, I know we can't re- do it, but you can see what gold a year ago was in the 2,900 range. Today, it's trading for in the $5,000 range.

34. 0:32:32

    So it's been, there's been a, a real spike, uh, in gold. And gold is always, when there's uncertainty, y- you, uh, you see gold moving up in a more positive, uh, aspect. Uh, next slide. Uh, this is transactions that occur when I swipe my card, or every month I pay a fee for the holding of my gold that's there, and it's a charge that's basically for storage that's keeps there. This particular organization uses Libor of London and a Swiss bank- a Swiss, uh, vault to store their gold in, and we would want that here in Georgia.

35. 0:33:07

    I want it on Georgia soil from that standpoint. Uh, next, next slide. Uh, here's where our vault fee is. It's .0063. It's the... You see exactly there's transparency in what goes on. The next slide will show you, uh, where I eat most of the time is Chick-fil-A. I bought my milkshake that was $5.13, and there's the grams of gold that it took to purchase that. So that the concept is up and running. Uh, next slide. Uh, the ability even to buy gold is it can be purchased on a credit card, which is not the best way.

36. 0:33:41

    Uh, you can use an ACH-type process as well with this particular vendor. And there are multiple vendors already in place that have the ability to transact a debit card to a gold account. What makes this different is that we're looking at using the Constitution for that to be Georgia, that Georgia backs our g- our, our, our process as a state. It's part of our rights under the Constitution. Next slide. This is kind of what I see is SB2... uh, 424 does.

37. 0:34:12

    I've said this, is that, uh, 424, uh, is this. It's for Georgians, uh, and it's 24 karat. Uh, it's interesting that we are under the Gold Dome, uh, as well. But what this does, it provides gold as, and silver as legal tender. It provides a provision for a bullion depositories. It provides a transactional, uh, rail, if you will, that we can transact business with. It has a place that we can secure our deposits. They are insured. Uh, talking to Brinks, Brinks, uh, said they can insure 2.5 billion at any one location, uh, that they have the ability to do that type of thing, uh, without that.

38. 0:34:52

    There's no social scoring. If you look at it specifically, uh, it's, it's privacy is there, and it's not to be part of Central Bank Digital Currency in any format, and it's to be p- uh, privacy for our citizens. Tax exempt. If we declare gold and silver as legal tender, there would be no state tax on the capital gains that are there. And so what it does, it provides us a gu- the guidelines and tr- um, a way in which there's transparency, and that's what needs to be there from that standpoint, and it provides a way that the average Georgian could have ownership in gold and silver and have a wi- means to transact that in a very simple way.

39. 0:35:33

    And what I see is it opens the doors for people who would not be able to do it otherwise, and it also makes that asset that you have readily available using a debit card. So with that, Mr. Chairman,

40. 0:35:50

    I will field the questions.

41. 0:35:52

    All right. So wait-

42. 0:35:53

    I have Todd Jones, who is with me. He is the, uh, gonna car- carry this for us in the, um, in the House.

43. 0:36:00

    All right, sir. Um, well, we got some, our screen is lit up.

44. 0:36:04

    Happy-

45. 0:36:04

    Let's take some questions, and then if anyone ev- wants to make comment, and we have also some people that are signed up. Uh, Chairman Williamson, he's the first one. Shot, jumped the gun on me.

46. 0:36:15

    Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, and Senator, uh, appreciate your in, in, in intent on this, but, uh, in your s- y- as you were finishing your presentation, you mentioned this would not be taxable, uh, for either a short-term or long-term capital gains by the State of Georgia. But remind me what the tax treatment is for the federal government, with or without this bill.

47. 0:36:36

    Right. It, it would be a long-term capital gain if it's held for the r- uh, appropriate period of time. And, you know, I would hope futuristically as states continue, that that would be something that we would not have as a federal. But right now, it would be sh- effect as c- if it declared as legal c- uh, legal tender, it would not, uh, uh, have a tax on the gain from the time that the person purchased that.

48. 0:36:58

    But is it not true at th- this moment in time, the United States federal government tax code said that if you buy, uh, uh, $5,000 worth of gold today, sell it for $6,000 in, in, in six months, that's a short-term capital gain, um, and, and taxed accordingly at your tax bracket. And then if it's, uh, over 12 months, it'd be a long-term capital gain, and there's a s- it, it could be up to 28% at that point. So my point is, isn't it true that this does nothing to affect the capital gains treatment, uh, of, of, by the federal government?

49. 0:37:36

    By the federal government, you are correct, sir.

50. 0:37:38

    Yeah. So, and I guess my follow-up question, put very simply, is you showed me the app. It's fascinating. Um, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's neat. Um- Uh, uh, mechanism where they're using, they're tracking these, uh, as you sell fractional, you buy fractional shares of gold, you sell fractional shares of gold, uh, it goes through the payment system. But could you not u- use, uh, Fidelity, Vanguard, Charles Schwab, or any other, uh, one of the, uh, up-and-running, uh, uh, financial entities that you can have gold ETFs, uh, ETFs, you could have...

51. 0:38:13

    Um, there's the various, uh, uh, precious metal funds that, to get, to accomplish the very same thing that you're trying to get at, absent the fact that the State of Georgia and your bill would, uh, would not collect, um, capital gains taxes.

52. 0:38:27

    Right. There, there are many apps that are already tied to gold accounts, you're correct, that are debit accounts. Of course, we've had that even in the stock issues. You can own fractional shares of stock, and you can have debit cards. What this does, that I see that's a little bit different, is that we declare it as legal tender, therefore it is, for Georgia, it's, it's cash. It is the ability to do business in that respect. It would be void, I think, as I see, of the, um, short-term capital gains would be, uh, because it's legal tender. We'd still have the federal, that would be true.

53. 0:38:59

    Right.

54. 0:38:59

    And what this allows is this, is that I see this as a multifaceted... There may be multiple providers of storage. There could be multiple providers even of transactions from that standpoint. And what the commission would do is put together a RFP, if you will, of requirements that need to be done. Uh, Florida, when they passed last year, it's, uh, they've taken a year, over a year to put together the guardrails that are there.

55. 0:39:26

    Well, then, then the, just, uh, just yes or no, this bill as, as the way it's written right now, is optional by the, uh, by the merchant to take. You say it'd be legal tender, but it's, it'd be voluntarily accepted by, by the merchant or the seller of the, of, of the goods or services. It's, it's optional, correct?

56. 0:39:45

    Great question. The, the cards, uh, usually are tied to either MasterCard or Visa, so they, the, the vendor never knows that you're paying for it in gold as far as that portion at all. You just swipe the card. And we kid with a vendor that says, "Well, you take gold?" And they look at you a little funny, and you swipe your card and it goes through, so that the transaction is invisible to the merchant from that standpoint. He never, he never realizes that's what's going on. The other is this-

57. 0:40:13

    But, line, it's, excuse me

58. 0:40:14

    Okay

59. 0:40:14

    ... line 118 says debts between private parties if such parties consent. So it's, um, your, your bottom line is somebody could walk in with a gold coin and it would have to be on putting the consent of the shop to accept that.

60. 0:40:28

    Right.

61. 0:40:29

    Okay.

62. 0:40:29

    I could, I could pay you in gold if I wanted to pay you in gold and you, it's optional to you. Just like-

63. 0:40:33

    Yeah

64. 0:40:33

    ... all of this, it's optional.

65. 0:40:34

    Well, that answers my questions.

66. 0:40:35

    Okay.

67. 0:40:35

    Thank you, Senator. I'll let, I know that a lot of people have questions.

68. 0:40:38

    Okay.

69. 0:40:38

    But thank you very much.

70. 0:40:39

    Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

71. 0:40:40

    All right, sir. Um, Representative Alexander.

72. 0:40:46

    So in actuality, a corporation can buy equipment, million-dollar piece of equipment with this, not be taxed. They're not paying no sales tax on that-

73. 0:40:58

    No

74. 0:40:58

    ... correct?

75. 0:40:59

    No, they would pay sales tax. What they would not pay is on, if they bought it at $1,000 and its current value was $5,000, the gain would not be taxed by the State of Georgia only.

76. 0:41:14

    Okay.

77. 0:41:14

    And so what it would do, because we are declaring gold and silver as legal currency, there's not a gain on currency. Just like today, your dollar is worth up and down, if you will. We don't see that per se, but that's where that would be from a standpoint. So we're only talking about the gain over a long period of time that would be there.

78. 0:41:34

    Okay. Fur- further questions. Um, so a payment in dollar is taxed at the same, payment in gold is not?

79. 0:41:44

    It would be the same. Gold would be seen as currency-

80. 0:41:48

    Right

81. 0:41:48

    ... just like any currency. The only part that would be there is where you have a capital gain on an increased value in the, in the gold from that standpoint. That's the only place that you would see that.

82. 0:42:01

    Right, but it's tax-free for anybody using gold.

83. 0:42:04

    Tax-free, th- that there would be a tax-free on the capital gains if there's a capital gains. That would be correct.

84. 0:42:11

    Thank you.

85. 0:42:12

    Okay. Thank you.

86. 0:42:14

    All right. Um, Minority Leader Hugley.

87. 0:42:20

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, to the author of the bill, how many of these depositories do you anticipate that we would have to have in Georgia to accommodate what you envision?

88. 0:42:34

    I left it at multiples for what I call free market. I believe that the free market would be good. And as I've mentioned, I don't see us building a depository. There are places that we can get banks. There are, uh, you know, could, could technically do one, but they would be authorized by the state to be able to store. I mentioned Brink's. Brink's, uh, handles not only gold and silver and money, but they, um, they handle precious, anything from precious metals. And I see the n- there's no need to build anything.

89. 0:43:05

    We just need to have people who are secured, insured to h- when they hold our money, that they, our, our, our gold and our silver, that they are backed up with the proper insurance and proper guarantees to back that up.

90. 0:43:20

    And if I could ask another question, Mr. Chairman.

91. 0:43:23

    Sure.

92. 0:43:24

    So where did you get your card that you use at the Chick-fil-A?

93. 0:43:29

    Do you wanna borrow it? Uh- I'll be-

94. 0:43:33

    It depends on how much money's on it.

95. 0:43:37

    This card came from a company that's in England that has been operational, and I have, I did, bought it and put my money, or bought my gold really for the last 24 months so I could check, does it work? Is it there? And, and so whatever I have in my balance, I've been able to spend, and I pay my fees on a monthly basis with this particular card. I call it a concept of proof that it works. There are other cards that are tied to gold accounts as well, but that, that was just one that I've used- to check out can this be done, because our technology today has opened the world.

96. 0:44:11

    Bear with me. Something can happen in London, England, and it, and we know about it five minutes later or less. Uh, so that the technology is there, uh, just like your bank account. Um, I'll say this, most young people do not have a checkbook. They have a phone, and that's where they spend their money from. So that's where this app kinda came from, and I use my card, and I have fun with it more than anything else. I have, uh, that, when I'm with a client, I said, "I'm gonna pay for gold." And they go, "Oh, okay." Uh, and, and you'd be surprised at the number of people who have gold. I had a fr- a friend the other day, and, uh, his mother passed away, and he says, "You would not believe what we found.

97. 0:44:46

    We found gold, and we also found silver coins that we had no idea they were worth what they were worth." So I think this, this opens the door for people to hold gold and to be able to transact business with gold under state auth-

98. 0:45:00

    If I could ask one final question-

99. 0:45:01

    Yes, ma'am

100. 0:45:02

     ... Mr. Chairman. Would you look at lines 188 to 191 and, uh, kinda explain what that was? I think Representative Alexander was asking you something along these lines. So give us clarity on what, what those lines are trying to convey.

101. 0:45:19

     What it says, it says, "The exchange of any gold and silver species as legal tender shall not give rise to tax liabilities. The sa- the purchase and sale or exchange of any gold or silver pieces shall give rise to tax liability. Shall not," excuse me, "not give rise to ta- " Here's the part is that if I do gold to gold, and I g- I, I, I, you accept go- gold as payment, there's still no gain or the tax because it's, it's, it's legal tender at that time, if that makes sense.

102. 0:45:52

     The exchange of gold and silver between parties would not be taxable because it's legal currency. Like, if I give you change for a 20 in the form of a 10, there's no tax involved in that transaction. That's really what that was intended to deal with.

103. 0:46:08

     Thank you.

104. 0:46:10

     Thank you, ma'am. Uh, Representative Scott.

105. 0:46:16

     Thank you, uh, Chairman. Um, okay, can, um, you explain how this bill benefits the average Georgian who does not own gold or silver and lives paycheck to paycheck?

106. 0:46:31

     Thank you, and actually, that's a great question, because here's the part is that I have families that save $50 a week, and here's the part, you cannot really go out and buy $50 of gold very easily. And what this would do, it would open the doors for really thousands and millions of Georgians who c- maybe couldn't come up with $5,000 or $2,000, but they could put their money there and have access to it. And as I mentioned, it's, it's, it's a store of value for them.

107. 0:47:02

     And then what I see is access. Uh, if I have own stocks or I own anything else, I've gotta go exchange. I've got to sell that, and it's not a, an easy process. I have to pick up the phone and call, or I can do it on my phone. This way, I have access to it. My app will tell me how much money I have, and I can swipe my card. As I mentioned, the example, of family, uh, that was, let's say, savings a little bit, and it's hard to save, save $50 a week or a month. If they needed an emergency fund, they could access whatever's in that fund with the card without having to do anything else except have the card available.

108. 0:47:40

     And so I think it opens up for many Georgians an opportunity to have a store of value that they've not even been able to do in the past. This just breaks it down into much small, smaller denominations.

109. 0:47:54

     Okay. Did you further you?

110. 0:47:57

     Ma'am?

111. 0:47:57

     Okay.

112. 0:47:58

     Yes, ma'am.

113. 0:47:59

     Follow. Yes.

114. 0:48:00

     Oh, okay.

115. 0:48:00

     Okay. So what is the total estimated cost to the state of Georgia to establish and operate this ba- ba- billion depository and digital transaction system? It's their cost to the state.

116. 0:48:12

     The cost to the state, we have talked with the Treasurer's office, is that once the bu- the commission was put together, that they would set up the rules and regulations and set up that portion. There would be no cost for the depository and no cost for the transactions because the depository would be paid for by those people who store their gold there, and then the transactions are paid for by the transaction fees, just like your credit card pays for transaction fees today.

117. 0:48:44

     Okay, one more. One, just one more. Okay. So how does this bill avoid conflict with the federal authority over the c- currency and m- monetary policies?

118. 0:48:54

     That's a good question. Uh, here's what I see it does. Under the current scenario as we stand, the federal government, we have a currency that is backed by the full faith of the federal government. What this does, it allows the State of Georgia to recognize gold and silver as legal tender and allows us to have an, an option of owning something that's not dollar-driven, but it's dr- it's driven by the value of the underlying asset, which would be gold and silver.

119. 0:49:26

     So it doesn't take away, it gives us the same authority as a state to recognize gold and silver as legal tender and as a stable form of value for our citizens.

120. 0:49:40

     Uh, go ahead.

121. 0:49:41

     We got a couple more questions, then we have some people lined up to speak. So let's, let's get going. Um, Representative Barrett.

122. 0:49:48

     Thank you, uh, for bringing the bill. Um, I, too, carry this coin in my pocket everywhere I go. This is a silver dollar from 1886, um, as a reminder about inflation. And I think that you're, you're, you're moving around the edges of probably the most important issue in our country today, which is inflation. It is a direct result of profligate spending and deficit spending in probably Washington, DC. You know how to balance a budget in Georgia beautifully.

123. 0:50:15

     Yep.

124. 0:50:15

     Um, there's, uh... What would be your response-

125. 0:50:20

     Pull the mic in, please.

126. 0:50:22

     What would be your response if, if, if the federal government came to you and said, "Senator, we'd like to offer you this opportunity to monetize the 50,000 or $100,000 you have in your safety deposit box, your gold coins or whatever, and we're the federal government, and we're here to help you be able to have access to that." Would you, would you be concerned and maybe a little paranoid if the federal government said that to you?

127. 0:50:47

     What was it Ronald Reagan said? Uh, the biggest lie that's ever told, "Hi, I'm here from the government, I'm here to help." Uh, I, I, I don't... I see this as this portion, uh, and, and not th- this portion, but it's, it, it becomes a state issue. And when I say this, a state right issue, and there are cases in the 1800s that there were state depositories, if you will, that gold was there, that is the right of the state. And I think we've forgotten this, um, and thank you for your question, is that the states created the federal government.

128. 0:51:18

     The federal government did not create the states. And what we are seeing with runaway inflation and with the issues that are going forth, the states, what I see, this is a pushback and say, "Hey, we're not comfortable with what's going on," and your, I'm gonna call it irresponsibility of not balancing your budget. And you are absolutely correct, is that Georgia have done a phenomenal job of, uh, balancing the budget, even to the point to where we're giving away, or giving back, excuse me, we're giving back the people's monies to them because we've done such a good job.

129. 0:51:50

     But I think this is a issue that I would not allow the federal government to take what I believe is a state right, if you will, or should be a state right, from me. I'm not tr- I, I, I hate to say I'm not trusting, but I am not as trusting of them as I once have been when I see what I'll, I'll call irresponsibility in the financial area.

130. 0:52:12

     I, I, I'll give you two, gr- tremendous props for, for the opening salvo on the, on the, the, the opening salvo on what I'm confident is the most important conversation we need to be having as legislators, uh, and, and spreading the word about inflation. Um, there's nothing right now, as I can tell, and maybe you can confirm, that, that prevents the free market from doing this presently, right?

131. 0:52:39

     It does not. Uh, uh, the free market, you can, you can transact business now without a problem. That's there. But what we're missing is this, is I want this to be constitutional. Just what you said, a protection from the federal government, is that if this is a Georgia authorized s- depository, I'm like this, if I were governor and the federal government said, "I wanna take up your gold," I would say, "You will have to get by my National Guard first." Because I believe this is a right of the states that we have ignored, that has been in place since the Constitution was drawn, and I believe that we the people need to be able to have a safe place to put the gold and silver that belongs to us, and it needs to be available for every Georgian.

132. 0:53:22

     And this, this takes the bar, if you will, down to the average citizen, is what I see it as.

133. 0:53:28

     Thank you. Thank you. And then one last question. Have you conferred with the Department of Banking and Finance on this?

134. 0:53:33

     I talked with them e- even yesterday, and they said they would be neutral on this, and I've worked here with the Treasurer's Department, uh, who, um, walked through this as well. Thank you.

135. 0:53:46

     Thank you. Um, next question we have, uh, Representative Ridley.

136. 0:53:51

     Um, thank you. Um, let's go back to Texas.

137. 0:53:56

     Okay. Let's go back.

138. 0:53:57

     Because they passed a bill in 2015, and then they actually got their depository up and running in 2018, but they started eight years before studying on how to do this. But their whole goal the whole time has always been to start the Texas Stock Exchange, which got passed this year finally, and that was the whole reason they, they were doing it, uh, to start with. And now you've got, um, what is it, Lone Star Tangible Assets is the one that actually owns, owns the building. Um, they're the sole owner of the building that you store it in. And so, I mean, they kinda had a plan from, from the beginning of what they were gonna move toward, and it's took them, you know, 10, 15, 20 years almost, I guess.

139. 0:54:35

     But is that kind of what you're thinking here, or are you just talking about just putting a depository in and kinda running it the way they do theirs?

140. 0:54:45

     Here's the part that Texas did. They brought, uh, built a public, uh, private partnership and spent money for it. I don't see-

141. 0:54:52

     Mm-hmm

142. 0:54:52

     ... the need to s- for our state to spend money for a depository if we have organizations, as I mentioned, could be Brinks, could be Loomis, that can store that, and us pay them a fee, and the state be out of it. I want as much free, free enterprise, if you will, freedom, as we can. What I wanted is to have that, that way there's not a cost to the, to the citizens of Georgia. It's to the people that store there. And then what Texas has done this last year is they put in the transactional side that they had not had as far as that.

143. 0:55:24

     And, and you, and you gotta admit, Texas is a little different from a lot of other states. People forget that they were the Republic of Texas prior to coming in.

144. 0:55:31

     Mm-hmm.

145. 0:55:32

     And they didn't like their gold, and there was a lot of their gold stored in, in, in, in New York, if you will, and they wanted to bring it to Texas on Texas soil, and that's the part I like, is having it in Georgia. Uh, I, I think that makes a lot of sense, is to have a place in Georgia that we know about, uh, and, and that's under our oversight, if you will, uh, from a standpoint. But I think they were thinking ahead. It's taken a while, and any good idea takes a while. And like I said, the five states, and it's being considered in 14 other states, are moving towards that understanding that the states do have rights, and they need to protect the people, and I think this is protection for people as far as that.

146. 0:56:12

     Right. And I, and I agree with you to an extent, I guess. Uh, I guess-

147. 0:56:17

     My thing is like, like I said, they started eight years ahead with the conversation study committees, the whole nine yards kind of running it down. 'Cause I guess they're basically about the first one that, that started from scratch. Um, and you know, like Delaware, New York, all those, they're just the storage. They don't have the, the merchant side of it where you can use it. I think Texas is the first one, and that's what Florida's looking to do now. So I, I mean, I'm just, just throwing a bill out here and, and, and doing it, you know, instead of like kind of working toward it I think is a little, makes me a little nervous.

148. 0:56:47

     Um, and you talk about like storing, like using Brinks or something like that, can you not already do that? 'Cause if I got gold, can I not go to Brinks and store it already? Right. You c- you, they would, they would store your gold for you. What we did is this, we looked at all the five states that have dealt with this. Uh, it- I will tell you that Florida passed it last year, and what they did, they took a period of time, and this would not take place until 2008, eight, uh, 2028 as far as that, p- to put all the rules and the regulations. I just got a copy of Florida.

149. 0:57:17

     I have not had time to read them. Uh, but we can learn from the other states what they've already done as far as that. Uh, and I think that's the part that we learn. Uh, I actually, believe it or not, the head of the depository in Texas is one of, was one of my constituents out of Peachtree City, and he and I've had conversations. And they store other things besides just gold for transactional purposes. But the cost to build that, to maintain that is something I don't think we need when we can use these other sources. I believe that's a better s- being a better steward for the state of Georgia.

150. 0:57:50

     And then what I say is we can learn what they have done as a, as... How do I say? The first one through, um, is gonna- we're gonna learn from them, and there's five other states with Arkansas, Louisiana, um, coming on board that we'll learn from them as well. Okay, thank you. Thank you, Sergeant. Thank you. Lieutenant Chastain. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Back on? Yeah. Thank you, Senator. Good to see you, Scott, back with us. Sir. Yeah. Met Scott a few years ago, had a good relationship with him, so appreciate you being here.

151. 0:58:25

     A couple of questions on, uh, the very, on line 26, but it's talking about Article 1, Section 10, and I've, I've read that section quite a few times. I know, uh, it does allow, it does allow for states to do what exactly what you're talking about, but that's a very small part of that section. The, the 80% of that section dealing with protecting what we have, our, our currency that's been here since, since we've been here. And this is my 40th year this year working in a community bank, and the same bank, same place, same town.

152. 0:59:00

     And my, my promise to all of my constituents is to, is to protect our, our currency as it is. Uh, and that, that's what I'm gonna do. But why do you think we haven't already declared gold and silver? I mean, it's been how many... It's been- I th- I think you had a couple things. Y- uh, of course, Nixon took us off the gold standard, which really allowed our federal government to print money in a way that has caused our inflationary issue. Um, when you think about it, what I said, that they can tax you, tax me, or print money they don't have, that makes your money and my money worthless.

153. 0:59:34

     I think this is really kind of a check, if you will, that allows citizens to own something that is not necessarily tied to... It's tied to the dollar in its quantitative side, but it's something that has been a store of value that most people just don't have the ability or have not had knowledge of. And I think this is one the Founding Fathers did not trust paper money, 'cause they had seen what happened. Uh, the old saying is it's not worth a continental, because during our war, we were issuing currency out that had no value.

154. 1:00:04

     I see this as a way for a diversification of our citizens on a voluntary basis, that they can own something and still have access to be able to transact it. It's kind of like this, I own some cattle. The only problem is, is if I want money for that cow, I gotta take him to market. I gotta walk through that process. I don't have a debit card for him, if you will, in that respect. So I think this opens up freedom and liberty for the average Georgian that they just not had in the areas of silver and gold. Okay. Can, for, for another question, Mr.

155. 1:00:35

     Chairman? So, uh, also, when we're talking about using the, the, the, the depository, uh, what would be the fee? W- do we, do we have any idea what the fee would be to the, to the consumer that calls up and- I don't have a, I don't have a fee except what I have with one, this one vendor that I've been dealing with, and I'm not vendor specific. I think what we do is we open it up with an RFP, say, "What's the best price you can give us? What would you charge us from that standpoint?" And it would c- it, that's the part that I see, uh, as a storage, but it's a, it's a, it's a rental fee, if you will, to be able to store it in a place that's safe and insured.

156. 1:01:12

     So we really can't say that there's, that, that there's not gonna be any cost, because we don't know what, we don't know how many people's gonna sign up. We don't know what the fees are gonna be. That's, that's all just sort of- Right. It's making the opportunity available. But here's what I would say, is you could go to Brinks today and ask them to hold your asset, and they'll give you a fee of what they will charge you today. What I see is with this, with more volume, it would drive down the pricing because, you know, in just the numbers that happens- Okay ...

157. 1:01:45

     uh, as far as that. And would, would the st- One more question, Mr. Chairman. Okay. We'll, we'll follow up. I've got several, but yeah. Would the state be responsible for the insurance? No, sir. Who would pay, who would pay for the ins- the- The, the individual. That would be included in the fee that you do for storage, that you would have an agreement with them that that would be what it would be as far as storage. That's part of your fee for the storage side. And that's how, how Texas has done theirs. So it's, so it's gonna have to be a pretty big fee to cover a lot of all the expenses and the insurance and the, the center and the transactions and-

158. 1:02:20

     I don't know that, that it would be as, as there... If we open this up, what I've seen is that the longer... A- as they, as they build, Texas has done this. Bear with me, to, to steal it, number one, is, is a pretty good job as far as that portion. Um, but it's so... The, the weight and the mass of it makes it harder to steal large amounts as far as that portion. And the security that these, uh, organizations have, they're storing stuff right now that's in a value issue, uh, would be there.

159. 1:02:50

     I think this, it opens the door and it gives us an option that we've not had, and it's voluntary in that respect. But if I'm gonna put my... If I had a $100,000 worth of gold, I'm gonna insure that against theft, and I think they can do that for us very well compared to what they're doing already around the country.

160. 1:03:13

     Got another question?

161. 1:03:14

     Yeah, one more.

162. 1:03:14

     One more question. So if I had $100,000 worth of gold in the, in the center, uh, would I have a cap on my debit card? Could I swap it for 100 grand?

163. 1:03:24

     Those rules and regs have not been set up, but what I see is this, this is me, you would have... You may want to put your 100 here and only put 25 available on your card. That would be all up to you. That's a choice of the citizen, because I don't need that much, but I would do like to have that emergency fund that I could tap if I had to.

164. 1:03:43

     And if I s- and if I have 100 grand and I swap it for 100, and gold drops in half the night, that night, what happens?

165. 1:03:51

     You're limited to whatever your account's gonna be. And if you look at, uh, what we see with the app, the app is, is when I say that it's every da- it's every minute. You actually can see it changing as it's tra- uh, that, as it's tr- tracking.

166. 1:04:07

     All right. Thank you. 16. That would be, uh, Ms. Cummings.

167. 1:04:13

     Um, I'm just kind of wondering, you said that you have your own account outside of the country?

168. 1:04:21

     Yeah.

169. 1:04:21

     Your own gold.

170. 1:04:22

     That's, that, that's the first one I had found, and I, and I got to meet them, and I said, "Well, let me see if it works."

171. 1:04:28

     So the one in Texas was not available?

172. 1:04:31

     The one in Texas, until last year, was not available with transactional. You could store your gold there, and that's the question, is that w- uh, c- we could, and the bill would allow you to do that. Um, I'm not a constitutional lawyer, but here's my, my thought on it, is you may have... Do you have interstate commerce possibly there? And I'm not wanting to have anything. This is to be a Georgia issue, not a federal issue, is what I'm hoping to keep it as, as Georgian as I can.

173. 1:05:02

     Um, one more question.

174. 1:05:03

     Yes.

175. 1:05:04

     So this kinda sounds like, and I'm probably repeating some of the other concerns, that instead of doing the depository or doing it in, I guess, increments, or having study committees to make sure it's gonna work, we're gonna jump right to, "Here's your card, and go start spending."

176. 1:05:19

     Well, what we're gonna do is the commission would set up the rules and the regs and everything that's been there. As I mentioned to you, Florida just finished theirs. They passed their legislation, and then what they did, they had basically a year to put those rules and regs together. Those were just published la- or, or released last week. So I, I'm, I'm wanting to look at that. I think that helps us when someone has already done it, and s- and Florida's been a, been a leader as far as that, uh, from a standpoint of protecting our, um, our economic freedom.

177. 1:05:53

     From that standpoint, they've done a real good job, and we could also learn from the other states that have already done this too. We're seeing it happening.

178. 1:06:00

     Thank you.

179. 1:06:02

     All right. Representative Mitchell.

180. 1:06:05

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I'm in receipt, as I, I believe the other members are, the letter from the Department of Audits and Accounts. Uh, in, in the letter they state it is likely that this bill could be implemented without the use of additional state funds. It is likely you, that could be entered into a no-cost agreement. And if the state authorized the vendor, there would be no cost. Uh, um, and it is interesting times that we find ourselves in.

181. 1:06:35

     Uh, can anyone give me an estimate on what it would cost us in the unlikely event, uh, the, we had to use state additional funds and we could not enter into a no-cost agreement, uh, and, uh, the vendor... And even subsequently, perhaps now we, we have a no-cost agreement, but subsequently, uh, that may change. Can somebody give me an estimate what that would do to the state? Anything?

182. 1:07:05

     Gonna let... I'm, I'm, I'm gonna take a chance, then I'm gonna let Scott speak about that.

183. 1:07:08

     All right.

184. 1:07:10

     Well, sir, I'm certainly no expert in what the cost of setting up a bullion depository would be, but I am very familiar in Treasury. We have a number of programs that are relatively similar in the sense that the Treasurer and Treasury has oversight. Um, Path to College is an example, the, of the program where there's a $7 billion, uh, $7 billion, 250,000, uh, 250,000 accounts. The state does not pay for any of the Path to College. The participants pay in.

185. 1:07:42

     Um, the state actually, and I am not suggesting this is the structure that we would be using, so I'm simply using an, an example of a very mature program to give you. Uh, the state does charge, uh, a partic- uh, a state fee. So while the participants are paying for TIAA CREF, who currently manages the investments for us, there's a small charge that the state collects, and we actually put that into a reserve. Currently, it's about two basis points. In the past it's, it can be up to six basis points based on the board.

186. 1:08:13

     Uh, but we've been as low as zero. Uh, on average in the last two years it's been about one and a half. The point being that there is a c- history of programs where the state does not put in the funds, but we do have oversight. And that, I'll just say, comes because state employees will often see this as a, a duty assigned. It's a, it's a project. So the state treasurer's office does. Myself, I'm the chief investment officer. I put a lot of time and effort into the Path2College, uh, but we don't get a state appropriation.

187. 1:08:46

     We do get a portion of the fee, and we actually collect a fee, and we have a reserve. So initially, in the build-out, I would say I think we would have to consider how that would work. But over time, as it matures, I would assume the commission would do something similar, which would be to make certain that the state had the wherewithal to manage the program in the instance where the program manager were to fail, go away. I don't mean fail from an investment perspective, but if they were unable to manage the transactions, uh, the reserve that we keep with, for Path2College would allow us to step in and manage until we could find an, a different program manager.

188. 1:09:25

     Sure. Could you please expl- will you introduce yourself to the group, please-

189. 1:09:28

     Sorry, yes

190. 1:09:28

     ... because some people might be listening by Zoom.

191. 1:09:31

     Mr. Chairman, I'm Scott Austinson. I'm the deputy treasurer and chief investment officer for the Office of the State Treasurer.

192. 1:09:36

     Thank you, sir. Uh, one more, um, comment, and then I'm gonna ask the audience. Can we have a show of hands of who is for it, who, who would signed up to speak? I, I need to see, just in interest of time, who's for it, who's for the bill, and who's against it? Okay. Okay. All right. Um, 2023, did you have a...

193. 1:10:00

     Yeah. Senator, um,

194. 1:10:04

     if we do this, isn't that, it's a sort of a, a tacit approval by the state that, that or, or, or a good housekeeping seal of approval by the state if we set this up, and but w- but we don't, we don't really affect the free market and, and the vendors who would come into this space. Uh, so for example, if only one vendor came into the space, you know, how do you control exchange rates, things like that? How do you, how do you protect your, your, your citizens from being taken advantage of?

195. 1:10:36

     When, when we, when we sort of do this to the, the idea, but only one entity comes in to, to participate, then it's essentially a monopoly, right? And the people who, who come in may not be getting competitive exchange rates, things like that. How... Have you thought through that and, and, and the possibilities there for real problems for our citizens?

196. 1:10:55

     Right. I think, I think the free market will bring more than just one vendor or one person that will, or organization that will come into play. Like we've talked, Florida I know is working with multiples. Texas is probably the unique s- issue from the standpoint that they already had their depository in place as far as that portion. But I do believe that free market with guardrails put together is, is a good way to do it. I think we need multiple players. I like choices. I believe this is about choice.

197. 1:11:26

     And so I think that the ability to have choices would also make this a competitive issue from that standpoint. And I, I, I, I don't envision just one player in the game, but I do say if, that as the commission would set up the regulatory side, that everybody would play with a level playing field for what they have to do. And then I think we look at this, what's good for Georgians. And then as, as, again, this is totally optional to anybody to come in. They can do anything they want to. This is just opening an, an option for the g- people that are governed under the Gold Dome to have the ability to, to own, uh, gold and silver and be able to transact with it.

198. 1:12:07

     Thank

199. 1:12:13

     you.

200. 1:12:13

     22.

201. 1:12:21

     So second. Let's see. Where was that at? So we passed a bill a year or two ago on central bank digital currency for Georgia. We didn't s- I guess we don't recognize that as a form of payment. But you don't, you don't, y- you're... In the bill, it's, is it not true that you think this is not a central bank digital currency? Is that what I'm reading?

202. 1:12:41

     Correct. Correct. I, I, I, I believe this, this is needs to be f- help for Georgians and not for our central bank to control what we spend and where we spend our money, or even to be able to track that. I believe we need privacy in that respect, and that's why I, I, I... That is, that is in there.

203. 1:12:58

     Okay.

204. 1:12:58

     And that's following many of the other states. They're doing the same type of thing. Um, if we look at some of the things that have been done with central bank digital currency during the COVID, uh, event, uh, in Canada, if you remember-

205. 1:13:09

     Mm-hmm

206. 1:13:09

     ... the truck drivers who were protesting, central bank digital currency turned off their credit cards to where they could not buy fuel. And so I, I, I do not, I, I'm totally, "How do we keep us as a free people?" from that standpoint. Thank you.

207. 1:13:24

     Uh, thank you. Um, Representative Scott.

208. 1:13:27

     Okay. Thank you again, um, Mr. Speaker. Um, Florida and Arkansas, they recognize gold and silver without building costly state systems. Can you tell me why Georgia is creating a new government-run financial infrastructure?

209. 1:13:46

     What we are trying to do is to have an ability for experts appointed by the governor, appointed by the House, and appointed by the Senate, s- uh, the Senate, to be able to set up the guidelines for us, basically to protect us, just like we have government protection in other areas, just like Scott was talking about, the investment accounts that are there, and that's the part we're doing right now, is setting up a guideline. Since this is using the Constitution, it brings the government of Georgia into the equation of how we're going to handle transactional gold and silver so that using the Constitution brings Georgia, and as we see Georgia, Georgia is our government, and we need that- Using that in the, in the, when I say this, the least, um, way we can, but yet we'll need guidelines, and that's what the purpose of having this in place would be, is having guidelines as we open up the, uh, bid process and the RFPs for the services that are there.

210. 1:14:50

     Okay. Um, okay, so we're looking at the bottom line with Florida and Arkansas. Uh, theirs are equal low cost, low risk policy adjustment, and whereas Georgia, it's equal to high cost and high risk of structure overhaul. So, uh, how, how, how's that gonna play out? Well, we, we have not put together the rules and the regs yet. Florida just did theirs last week, week, and got it final, on final approval.

211. 1:15:21

     It took them 12 months to get those in together, and I, I'll have not had the opportunity to read through their total yet. But I think this is that what's nice about it is that they've already done a lot of work, and we can benefit off that work. I talked to several of their people already, and they're willing to share the information that they have. So I think that may even make our cost even lower because we've already got people who've been ahead of us dealing with the issues that are there. Okay. Thank, thank you. Um, Representative Hugley, and then we're gonna, we're gonna try to end 'cause I know other people have other meetings to get to.

212. 1:15:58

     Thanks, Chairman. Um, I don't know who can answer this, but I wanna know why the banks and banking department is neutral on something of this magnitude. What does that mean? Well, I think- You don't care one way or the other, or what? Well, here's, here's the issue is that this is really a, a, a, an, a stable value, if it will. It's like a... I hate to say it's a commodity, but it's like a commodity, if you will, uh, in that respect.

213. 1:16:30

     It's not... It is, it is and it isn't currency in that respect from that standpoint. We talked to them and walked through it with them, and he said, "I'll just, I, I'll just be neutral on this. We believe that the Treasurer of Georgia is a better place for it to oversee the, it, those, those items, just like they're doing in some of the other plans that are there, and using that as a regulatory side, um, from a standpoint of the gold and silver side." I tell you what, we had some people...

214. 1:17:02

     Did, did we have anybody that traveled a long distance that wanted to speak for or against? Can y'all, can y'all limit it to five minutes total? Yeah. JP Cortez. Okay, come up here 'cause we've got, we've got a schedule, and I know people have other meetings they need to be in. But I know this is important. Come on up here, sir, and introduce yourself to us.

215. 1:17:26

     And the next person that's ready, if, if y'all will be on deck.

216. 1:17:41

     Yes.

217. 1:17:43

     Hi there, Mr. Chair, uh, Vice Chair, uh, rest of the members of this committee. Thank you very much for the opportunity to testify before you today. My name is JP Cortez. I'm the Executive Director of the Sound Money Defense League, and I'm just here in strong opposition to Senate Bill 424. While we appreciate the apparent desire of elected leaders to implement what are or what they believe to be pro-gold and silver policies, generally, this is an ill-conceived measure that births a new government, uh, program, a commission that would lead to harmful intervention in the gold market. It would unfairly pick winners and losers in an already existing industry, and it would create a boondoggle, uh, an unnecessary project for Georgia and its citizens.

218. 1:18:21

     This would damage free market competition, and it's a step in the wrong direction as far as sound money policy goes. Legislators in other states have overwhelmingly rejected these vendor proposals, including Kansas, Michigan, Wyoming, New Jersey, Oklahoma, Iowa, West Virginia, and Idaho. Just in the last month, Mississippi, South Dakota, Kansas, Indiana, and last week, Arizona decided against, uh, pursuing or advancing these measures. This would create a private public partnership between the State of Georgia and a small handful of vendors that are already legally operating and already competing in a regulated industry that is not clamoring for increased government involvement.

219. 1:18:56

     In general, there's virtually no, uh, public demand to spend gold or to pay taxes in gold. This is economic law. This is Gresham's law. No one would spend their gold so long as you can spend dollars. If, if tax authorities and Walmart and Chick-fil-A is willing to accept dollars, I would not spend my gold to pay them. Firms offering gold and silver for purchase and storage and payment should compete in the private market rather than seeking government designations so that they can compete better or bolster their position in an already existing industry. This path can also lead to litigation.

220. 1:19:28

     The, the Texas Depository that was discussed here earlier, the Comptroller was sued last month by a Texas, uh, by a precious metals-based industry for alleging that the state is attempting to enter and compete with private businesses already offering these services. So again, we, uh, uh, strongly support, and we do not mean to impugn the motives of any well-intentioned sponsors, but this is a bad bill that should not be passed. The solution to this problem is not staging a big partial government takeover of this already existing industry. This bill does far more than provide guide rails for private companies.

221. 1:20:01

     In reality, it directs and creates a new unprecedented government program. This commission being discussed does not exist, has not existed, has not even been introduced or considered in any of the states that have introduced or passed legislation resembling this. So d- designing and, um, uh, designing and establishing a bullion depository, authorizing vendors, all of this is, um, it's unprecedented. States have not been doing this. So if Georgia wishes to promote sound money, there are things they can do. Hold a gold reserve, remove capital gains taxes, but putting the state's finger on the scale and picking winners and losers does not make sense.

222. 1:20:36

     I stand in strong opposition of Senate Bill 424. Thank you for your time. Thank you, sir. The next one signed up was John Jarvis

223. 1:20:47

     Okay. Well, somebody else that, that drove a long way that are-- they came here to speak for or against? Yes. Come on. I thought you were John, I'm sorry.

224. 1:20:59

     Good morning, uh, chairman and members of the committee. Thanks, uh, for taking time to study this important issue today. Uh, my name is Mike Carter. I'm co-founder of the National Security Investment Consultant Institute. Uh, we are a solution to action tank that focuses on economic liberty, uh, and protecting our, uh, economic-- uh, national security and economic infrastructure. Uh, I've been helping to facilitate legislation like this across, uh, the country. Uh, I'm, I'm platform agnostic. Uh, I care about economic justice. I care about economic freedom.

225. 1:21:29

     This bill, similar bills to this have passed now in Texas, Florida, Arkansas, Louisiana, Missouri. Uh, across the country, there's another ten to fifteen states that are working this. Uh, we've seen, uh, some get, uh, past multiple committees, some still working through this. Uh, but this is an important piece of legislation, and this is a simple next step. Uh, this was model legislation built around, uh, from American Legislative Exchange Council. This, uh, last summer, six hundred legislators got together and looked at this from an economic liberty perspective. Uh, and they laid out this framework, and that's what you're seeing here.

226. 1:22:02

     This is not a tinfoil hat idea. This is constitutional. It's in our Constitution, our Article I, Section ten, states can have their own legal tender, uh, a-a-as long as it's, it's gold and silver. Uh, you've heard some of the benefits today. Uh, some of the questions that I've heard out there are, well, is, is Texas-- uh, I, I heard, uh, one of the opponents say, uh, Texas is being sued. That's a completely separate issue. It's on a specialty collectible coin, not even related to the transactional gold and silver bill. Um, I have heard questions as it relates to taxes out there.

227. 1:22:33

     Uh, we've talked specific as it relates to capital gains tax here. I would tell you that we've had executive level discussions at the federal level of as this moves forward, getting rid of capital gains at, at a, at a national level as well. Those are serious discussions that we are having out there. Uh, the question becomes, uh, you know, why do we need this today? Uh, and I think it comes to look at what's going on with our record debt. Look at what's, what's happening as it relates to a tax on the dollar out there. How do we give people optionality? How do we give them another re-- way to pay, but provide the safety rails to make that really feasible?

228. 1:23:07

     Uh, I, I wanna make sure that there are some guidelines there so the free market can compete, and that's what this is. It's not a government overreach. It's not a government boondoggle, uh, as the, uh, one of my opponents suggested out there. This is about providing safety rails, just like you would-- you license doctors, you license other things out there. You wanna make sure the consumer is protected. There have been private companies, uh, that have done what, what, uh, Representative Senator, uh, uh, Harbin showed out there, that took the people's silver and money and ran because there's no oversight, there's no audits taking place.

229. 1:23:37

     None of this was happening. As it relates to cost, Florida had-- uh, both Florida and Arkansas were, uh, um, had no fiscal note on this. This is not a heavy economic investment because it's paid for by the user. The, the user fees, transaction fees that runs on the rails of MasterCard and Visa. Uh, so it's the same fees that are out there that if you use your debit card or a credit card today. Um, so, you know, look at the question of, of, of why, uh, uh, not people are opposed to this. We just heard from a, a, a gold dealer.

230. 1:24:09

     Why are they-- why do they care, care about maybe there being a little more transparency, a little more authenticity, uh, to making sure people are protected, the consumers out there? Uh, you know, and, you know, I, I, I look at, uh, their Trustpilot scores. They got fifty percent one stars. Uh, no, they got fifty, yeah, fifty percent one stars. They got forty-one percent five stars. Uh, but of those, they report delays, shorted orders, loan bait and switch, hidden fees, poor service, depository issues, low appraisals, surprise cost. This is what people are getting hit with out there.

231. 1:24:39

     And what we're asking is legislators to recognize your Article I, Section ten rights, uh, making gold and silver legal tender, put those safety rails in place, let the free market compete, uh, and, a-and be prepared. And, and my reason for being here, quite honestly, one of my passions, uh, and, and I've spent a lot of my own personal money to help facilitate this across the country. I had a gentleman from Zimbabwe, uh, that, uh, came up to me and said, "Please, please get this passed." He gave me a fifty trillion dollar bill, uh, that's worthless today. He said, "They said hyperinflation would never happen until it did." He goes, "I lost my house.

232. 1:25:13

     Uh, I traded my truck in for three loaves of bread. If I could've had one of these cards, I could've gone to the grocery store and bought food at everyday low prices out there." That's what we're talking about. We're talking about a solution with rails that's a free market compete. With this legislation, retailers will have the option of taking-- right now, it's converted to fiscal dollars. Your gold gets a-at spot price, at market price with a very small fee. Uh, with this legislation, retailers would have also the option of taking gold directly, electronically, and poten-potentially even saving fees.

233. 1:25:45

     This is a big idea. Uh, this is not complicated. It's an easy next step. Uh, and I believe that what Senator Harbin has set up with the commission is to say, "How do we make sure not that there's more government, but less government control to make sure that there's not one bureaucrat that's overseeing this?" But, uh, please understand, ten, uh, uh, um, Georgia does not own the gold. Individuals own the gold. That's what's in their vault. That's what's stored in the vault. Okay? So it's, it's not that Georgia's making an investment. Individuals are doing this.

234. 1:26:15

     They're buying it. They will sell it. They'll transact on the pri-private rails, on the rails of anti-money laundering, uh, uh, free market principles, following the banking guidelines out there. And I won't even say there's a question as it relates to banks. Uh, we have a banker in, in Oklahoma said, "I want this on my app now, because when Silicon Valley Bank collapsed, I lost people going to banks too big to fail. I want people to be able to shift some of their dollars to, to gold if they want to. Uh, and then when things stabilize, instead of them leaving, they stay within my bank." This is another way to pay. The best thing we could do to create a strong national economy is get as much gold in the U.S.

235. 1:26:49

     as possible and eliminate that federal debt I'm not gonna miss we're gonna get rid of the debt, I'm not gonna miss we're gonna get rid of inflation, so let's give people a choice, optionality to opt into this. With that, I'll close for any questions.

236. 1:27:00

     Okay, thank you. We have one question. Representative Ridley.

237. 1:27:03

     Um, Texas is, their debit part don't start till July 7th, correct?

238. 1:27:09

     That's correct.

239. 1:27:09

     So nobody's even actually got debit actually functioning yet.

240. 1:27:13

     No, Florida's will start, uh, in, uh, July of this year. So they've gone through rules and regulations. That was unanimous bipartisan support. No fiscal note. Uh, Governor DeSantis, I was there for the signing with Governor DeSantis. I was, uh, and, and, and they, they will start with that implementation, uh, as soon as this year. Texas will, uh, they're in the process now. We have a acting comptroller and a new comptroller coming on board. They have an RFI out right now, so that request for information is being done. Uh, and RFP, and they're on track. Uh, in fact, I talked to, uh, uh, the comptroller, uh, that was just elected.

241. 1:27:47

     He's not in office yet. He wants to get done before '27. He wants to get it done before that deadline. He wants to get it done, uh, as soon as possible.

242. 1:27:54

     Okay. And well, last- you said you've done this all over the, all over the country, and, and I'm not saying I'm opposed to it, but has anybody thrown a bill out in six weeks time and went from there to, to putting tax anymore?

243. 1:28:05

     Arkansas did. Um-

244. 1:28:06

     Well, you got a better one to use.

245. 1:28:10

     That's not a great example.

246. 1:28:10

     'Cause I've been to Arkansas a lot.

247. 1:28:13

     Florida, Florida, Florida, uh, you know, we, uh, let's see, first year out, uh, there was questions. Uh, second year, uh, passed unanimously, bipartisan. And I just talked to Glaize, their comptroller CFO. He says, "I wanna get going on this as quick as possible."

248. 1:28:29

     Okay.

249. 1:28:29

     Again, understand this is, this is not setting up a big billion depository. It's not setting up a lot of expensive things. It's letting the free market compete, just making sure the consumer's protected. And we've got a lot of geopolitical issues out there, attacks on the dollar, reasons why this is very important for the constituents now.

250. 1:28:47

     Thank you, sir.

251. 1:28:48

     Thank you.

252. 1:28:48

     Senator Harbour, I appreciate you being here today. I think we still have, you know, some more questions than we have answers, and I think everybody is, is, you know, very interested in this. What's the will of the committee, you know, as we speak right now on day 33? That's, that's, or day 32, that's what I'm interested in.

253. 1:29:04

     So table it, come back next week and kind of let everybody get their feet under this.

254. 1:29:08

     I, I think that's a good idea. So is, is that fine with everybody? We table this, and we come back next week and, and maybe get our questions answered and, um, see if we can proceed with this, if that's a, amenable to you, sir.

255. 1:29:21

     I-

256. 1:29:21

     Let's, let's go. All right. We'll, we'll see y'all next week.

257. 1:29:23

     Go with that. Thank you for that.

258. 1:29:24

     Okay.

259. 1:29:24

     Thank you for being willing to-

260. 1:29:25

     Thank, thank you for everyone being here today, and thank you for your time, members. This is adjourned.

261. 1:29:58

     Wow.