House Retirement Committee, March 17, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:03:43

   Are these duplicate bills?

2. 0:03:45

   What?

3. 0:03:46

   Are these duplicate bills from the House? I guess it's a similar bill, 23 or something like that.

4. 0:03:51

   No.

5. 0:03:52

   No?

6. 0:03:52

   I'll, I'll explain it later, but basically put Brad Thomas's bill in regard to investment limits i- into Senate Bill 23.

7. 0:04:11

   Chairman Tarvin, if you would open us, open us up, please.

8. 0:04:15

   Thank you. We, uh, j- join me in prayer. We, we have all, uh, Senate, uh, presenters today.

9. 0:04:24

   Overtime, yes.

10. 0:04:25

    Yeah, we'll, uh... I'll put a text, a word in for 'em. Our Heavenly Father, we thank you for this time, and we pray, Lord, that you would lead, guide, and direct in all that we do, and may the decisions we make be pleasing to you and what's best for the people of the state of Georgia. Amen.

11. 0:04:44

    Amen.

12. 0:04:44

    Thank you, St- Chairman Tarvin. Okay. Uh, I made a promise. Uh, Chairman Hatchett, I believe it is, or Floor Leader Hatchett, I'm sorry, come on up. Uh, Senate Bill 452, sir. You can do the podium. I prefer you do the table, if you don't mind.

13. 0:05:04

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

14. 0:05:05

    Hold on one second. Try it again.

15. 0:05:09

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, today I'm presenting Senate Bill 452 with the LC number LC560504-EC. Is that what y'all have?

16. 0:05:23

    Yes, sir.

17. 0:05:23

    Awesome. Um, this is a issue that I'm sure most of you have heard about, retirement. Retirement for, uh, peace officers in the State of Georgia. Uh, right now we're very competitive as far as pay goes when it comes to, uh, state patrol and other peace officers. But in retirement, we're 49th in the country, which is very difficult for, uh, recruitment and retention. Governor Kemp, uh, I'm carrying this on behalf of Governor Kemp, and he has come up with a plan which would increase the state's match for the 401up to 15%.

18. 0:06:05

    So a peace officer now could contribute 5% and the state would match 15%. Now, this doesn't get us to where we need to be, but it's a pretty good start. Um, had overwhelming support in the House, and, um, excuse me, in the Senate, and hopefully we can get the same in the House and just continue Governor Kemp's work of backing the blue and, and, um, giving them what they deserve at the end of their career for everything they put in during their career in keeping us safe.

19. 0:06:43

    Anything else? Th- th- this is basically... We've had several, uh, bills discussing doing more in regard to a defined benefit plan. This is a 401defined contribution option to basically enhance the matching amount going into a 401for a state law enforcement, enforcement officer, dollar for dollar, but increasing the match on that dollar for dollar, correct?

20. 0:07:08

    That's correct.

21. 0:07:09

    Okay. Any questions from the committee? Chairman Martin, go ahead.

22. 0:07:18

    Just, um, I'm, I'm good with this. I just wanna get to the details of it. Um, j- just have, equal to 2% of the members per, per year. So you're gonna, if I've been here the sixth year, I'd get 2%, seventh year I'd get 4%-

23. 0:07:31

    Mm-hmm

24. 0:07:31

    ... at that time, correct? That's, am I reading that correctly?

25. 0:07:34

    That's what they would match.

26. 0:07:35

    On the match.

27. 0:07:36

    That's what they would match.

28. 0:07:37

    Yeah, right.

29. 0:07:37

    Yes.

30. 0:07:38

    And then that would be of the, of the contribution, not, not 4% of, of what the employer's putting. That's the 4% of the match.

31. 0:07:43

    That's right.

32. 0:07:44

    But not to exceed 15%.

33. 0:07:47

    Correct.

34. 0:07:48

    Uh, and I'm good with that, too. Except it's just, if we're doing 2% a year, it seems like we ought to do 14 or 16. Um-

35. 0:07:54

    So I think the way the math works out is you get a 5% match after year five.

36. 0:07:59

    Okay, I got you.

37. 0:08:00

    And then year six you get-

38. 0:08:00

    So you're getting that, okay, that's on top... That's fine.

39. 0:08:02

    Yeah.

40. 0:08:02

    That's all I wanted to... I'm just gonna round it up for you and give you the other 16. So I'm good.

41. 0:08:07

    Okay.

42. 0:08:07

    I like this.

43. 0:08:08

    Thank you.

44. 0:08:13

    Any other questions from the committee? I think, um, uh, Leader Hatchett, I mean, Leader, um, yeah, Floor Leader Hatchett, I believe this is something that was brought up in the governor's State of the State address. Um, was it not?

45. 0:08:27

    It was.

46. 0:08:28

    Yes. Number 27, I think that's, uh, Chairman Tarvin.

47. 0:08:32

    It's proper time.

48. 0:08:34

    Got it. Noted. Any oth- other discussion from the committee?

49. 0:08:42

    All in favor of Senate Bill 452, and again, just to be clear, we're working on LC560504-EC. We have a, uh, we have a due pass from Chairman Tarvin. Do we have a second?

50. 0:08:55

    I have a second.

51. 0:08:56

    Any further discussion? All in favor say aye.

52. 0:08:59

    Aye.

53. 0:09:00

    Any opposed? Congratulations, sir.

54. 0:09:03

    Thank you very much.

55. 0:09:03

    Thank you very much.

56. 0:09:38

    Appreciate you.

57. 0:09:38

    I know we have a, a couple other, sep- we have several other bills. I'm gonna try to take some of these smaller ones that hopefully won't take too much time. Um- Senate Bill 489, um, Senator Goodman, is it? Yes. Come on up, sir.

58. 0:09:53

    Brev- brevity.

59. 0:09:57

    That's what our appropriations chairman used to say, "Be brief. Be brief, brother, be brief."

60. 0:10:03

    Brevity is the order of the day, and I-

61. 0:10:05

    Yes, sir.

62. 0:10:06

    Yes, for Senate Bill 49, uh, my cousin, who is probate judge, actually came to me with this bill. Uh, b- bottom line, all, all it is is, uh, is a- affecting their retirement because after we, after we passed constitutional carry, at the time, the probate, uh, judges brought up the, the fact that, uh, uh, the permits, you know, a portion of that fee went into their retirement, correct? So we've seen about a 60% reduction in those permits. And so the total, the, the total, um, fund doesn't bring in but, like, $1.3 million a year, and the, the decrease in the amount from the, uh, those permits is about $233,000 a year.

63. 0:10:48

    And so the actuarial study is now showing that within the next, like, three years, they're gonna be underfunded below 100%. And so this bill does not use any additional state money. All it does is ... And it also doesn't raise any fees. All it does is adjust slightly the percentage of the fees that goes into their retirement so that it doesn't get underfunded. And so, um, they actually, they're going to contribute more into the retirement themselves. And for instance, the marriage license, the percentage that goes into the fund increases from 20 to 25%, the civil filing fee from $2 to $5, and the bond forfeiture and fine fee from $3 to $5.

64. 0:11:23

    It's, uh ...

65. 0:11:24

    So ultimately, Senator, this is ... Chairman, um, I'm sorry. Chairman, this is about funding the, uh, the plan as opposed to about benefits, and that's why it's been na- rated a non-fiscal bill by, uh, Department of Audits and Accounts, correct?

66. 0:11:38

    Yes, sir.

67. 0:11:38

    Okay. Do we have any questions? I thought I saw a hand go raised.

68. 0:11:46

    And if, if, if it gets too technical, I'm gonna get my, my good friend in the back, Homer Bryson. I'll dial a friend.

69. 0:11:52

    Did you say, I thought you were about to say your cousin was gonna come up and speak.

70. 0:11:55

    No. He would, he would if I'd a- a- but, uh, I told him I'd call Homer

71. 0:11:59

    Which he's welcome to, you know.

72. 0:12:00

    Yeah, that's right.

73. 0:12:01

    Okay.

74. 0:12:04

    This is a impact of constitutional carry. Regardless of the politics on that, then there's no more requirement for the fee, therefore there's no more requirement for ... There, there's no more requirement for the permit, therefore no more requirement for the fee, correct?

75. 0:12:16

    Yes, sir.

76. 0:12:16

    Okay. Any questions from the committee?

77. 0:12:24

    Do I hear a motion? We got a move to pass from Chairman Tarvin.

78. 0:12:31

    Second.

79. 0:12:31

    Second from, uh, Chairman Williams. Any further discussion? All in favor say aye.

80. 0:12:38

    Aye.

81. 0:12:38

    All opposed. Congratulations, sir.

82. 0:12:41

    Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Appreciate y'all.

83. 0:12:47

    Forgot to mention, don't forget to fill out a rules form, uh, with, uh, Chairman Parish.

84. 0:12:52

    Yes, sir. Will do. Thank you.

85. 0:12:54

    Okay.

86. 0:12:59

    Chairman, uh, Robertson, come on up, sir. Senate Bill 216.

87. 0:13:14

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

88. 0:13:15

    And I must say, you are looking dapper today. I am impressed. I, I barely got here myself.

89. 0:13:19

    Well, I, I appreciate that, and I want to start out by saying I'm in no way related to any individual that this bill may impact.

90. 0:13:26

    Okay. Very fair. Very fair start. Go ahead.

91. 0:13:30

    At least I don't believe I am. I'll say that. Um, SB 216 is, is just the final step. Uh, what this bill does, it allows individuals ap- currently employed as a director of the Prosecuting Attorneys Qualification Commission on or after July 1, 2026, to become members of the Judicial Retirement System, the JRS. Um, however, an individual so employed as of June 30, 2026, who is not already a member of the JRS must remain a member of the ERS unless he or she elects to join the, the, uh, JRS on or before June 30th of 2027.

92. 0:14:06

    Um, and there, the bill also contains the requirements of notification that they must give if they choose to transfer over from the, um, from the ERS to the JRS. And this really only impacts the current director of that, that program. Anybody else coming on after that would be offered the opportunity of JRS initially.

93. 0:14:29

    Thank you for that. Any questions, committee? We do have, uh, one speak, uh, one person asked to, to speak to the bill.

94. 0:14:42

    Okay.

95. 0:14:46

    I, I did have a question for the author.

96. 0:14:48

    Yes, sir.

97. 0:14:49

    Um, so in JRS, this is, this is typically designed to cover judicial, uh, positions.

98. 0:14:56

    Yes, sir.

99. 0:14:56

    Correct?

100. 0:14:57

     Yes, sir.

101. 0:14:57

     Who, who else are beneficiaries or members of JRS, uh, other than judicial positions? Can you just state that for the committee?

102. 0:15:06

     I'll be honest with you, Mr. Chair. I'm not sure of the entire list. I know there are some that are not judges-

103. 0:15:10

     Right. Right

104. 0:15:11

     ... that are members

105. 0:15:11

     That's where I'm getting.

106. 0:15:12

     Yes, sir. That there are some whose positions do qualify, has the opportunity to move over into JRS. Um-

107. 0:15:18

     But I, I get it, it's a judicial-

108. 0:15:20

     Yes

109. 0:15:20

     ... system as opposed to just judicial positions.

110. 0:15:23

     Right. And, and we even have some in judicial positions that have moved over into TRS based on certain, when, when I sat on the Retirement Committee with, uh, Chairman Black years past, and so it gets a little, uh, it'll, there's a little bit of, uh, cross-pollination in some of those, uh, retirement systems, but in judicial-

111. 0:15:44

     You're referring to former Senator Ellis Black?

112. 0:15:46

     Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

113. 0:15:47

     I've heard from him a few times over the past, yeah.

114. 0:15:49

     Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Um, but, um- Um, I, I couldn't answer-

115. 0:15:55

     Okay

116. 0:15:55

     ... correctly, I'm sure intelligently on individuals. The vast majority of the individuals in this plan are members of the judicial, but there are, on rare occasions, some clerks and others within that same framework-

117. 0:16:08

     Right

118. 0:16:08

     ... that qualify for JRS.

119. 0:16:10

     Okay.

120. 0:16:10

     But, but I couldn't tell you who they were.

121. 0:16:12

     We have a question from Vice Chairman Franklin.

122. 0:16:15

     Yes, thank you. How, how did this, how did you come to this bill? I mean, how did this, uh, come about and the history of it?

123. 0:16:20

     We, we created this, um, Prosecuting Attorney's Qualification Commission probably th- possibly three years ago. And so with bringing on the personnel and going through the process after we had passed the commission, this was brought for, uh, brought to us to sort of level everything up, along with JQC and, and, and the other parts that basically do the same thing, where their focus is on prosecutors, where, where JQC's focus is on judges themselves. So we're just trying to level up between the individuals that carry out basically the same tasks.

124. 0:16:53

     Okay. Thank you.

125. 0:16:54

     Yes, sir.

126. 0:16:58

     Any other questions from the committee? Could I ask, uh, what was the, um... And I guess I could look this up electronically. What was the floor vote on the Senate for this, do you know? Was it un- pretty unanimous?

127. 0:17:09

     Oh, on this particular-

128. 0:17:10

     On, on 216, yes.

129. 0:17:12

     Um-

130. 0:17:13

     I don't think it was partisan, was it? It was-

131. 0:17:14

     No, sir, it was not. If, if I'm not mistaken, it was, uh, the, there, if there were any dissension, it was a very small number.

132. 0:17:22

     It looks like it was 49 to two.

133. 0:17:24

     Yes, sir, and I, I probably could name those two. Uh, just two very, um, hawkish, uh, physical individuals in there.

134. 0:17:33

     Okay.

135. 0:17:33

     I'm not sure who the second one was, but there's a really good chance Senator Dolese all would've been one of them.

136. 0:17:39

     Uh, neither, neither one of the two, but very-

137. 0:17:41

     Okay.

138. 0:17:43

     Any questions on Senate Bill 216 from the committee? We do have one person who's going to speak to it.

139. 0:17:48

     Yeah, and if there was any questions for the, this is the current director. If anyone had any questions-

140. 0:17:53

     Okay

141. 0:17:53

     ... of him related, we just invited him up.

142. 0:17:56

     Um, Ian He-

143. 0:17:58

     That's correct.

144. 0:17:59

     Yes. Go ahead, sir.

145. 0:18:00

     Okay.

146. 0:18:00

     Just state your name real quick for-

147. 0:18:01

     Okay

148. 0:18:01

     ... 'cause we're streaming.

149. 0:18:03

     Right. My name is Ian Heath. I am the director or executive director of the Prosecuting Attorneys Qualifications Commission. I'm here basically just for information. I don't want to belabor this. Uh, I can tell you the answer to your question of who, uh, is currently in the, uh, JRS. The important part is, is that, uh, elected district attorneys, solicitors general, and judges. There's other people, but th- that's the important group. And the reason why it's important is because I'm not gonna be here forever and you're gonna bring somebody else in, and you want a former prosecutor, or, or judge, but really a prosecutor, who's run a shop, who has done the job that's being investigated.

150. 0:18:47

     They are already in JRS. A former district attorney or a former solicitor general would not be attracted to this position. And when this position has been opened twice, and I'm not disparaging anybody, but I'm the best they could get, and they had to recruit me, okay? Um, like four people apply. Okay? I know for a fact there were several former district attorneys who had two terms in, that's eight years. They vest at 10. I know personally two of them who would've looked at it, but they're not gonna look at it if it's in ERS.

151. 0:19:21

     Thank you. Got it. You said there's three pos- positions that are in JRS, uh, elected solicitor generals and-

152. 0:19:29

     Oh. Yeah, there's, there's more than that.

153. 0:19:31

     Okay.

154. 0:19:31

     Your, your legislative council's in it. Um, uh, there's, there's others.

155. 0:19:39

     Quite a few other positions.

156. 0:19:40

     I, I don't remember all of them off the top of my head.

157. 0:19:40

     Okay. Thank you. The, the, the author, were you gonna say something, Majority Whip? No, sir. Okay. I thought you- I was not. I was not. Any questions from the committee?

158. 0:19:54

     I'll entertain a motion.

159. 0:19:57

     Motion.

160. 0:19:59

     Got a motion from Vice Chairman Franklin. We have a second from, uh, Representative Buckner. Any further discussion on Senate Bill 216? All in favor say aye.

161. 0:20:12

     Aye.

162. 0:20:12

     All opposed. Congratulations, sir. And, uh, who's carrying the bill for you on this side, or do you know?

163. 0:20:21

     No, sir. I'll, I'll get that back to you.

164. 0:20:23

     Okay.

165. 0:20:23

     And I'll make sure to go by rules-

166. 0:20:24

     And, and don't forget the rules for us, sir

167. 0:20:25

     ... yes, sir.

168. 0:20:26

     All right. Very good.

169. 0:20:28

     Maybe Gullett?

170. 0:20:29

     I, I'm, excuse me, I believe it's gonna be Chairman Gullett-

171. 0:20:32

     Okay

172. 0:20:32

     ... will be carrying it on the House side.

173. 0:20:33

     Very good.

174. 0:20:34

     Thank you.

175. 0:20:41

     Yes.

176. 0:20:41

     There is, uh, one bill, and we're gonna get, uh, uh, just, uh, Senate Bill 150 in just a minute. Um, on, uh, Senate Bill, uh, 23, what we're doing here is this is a bill in regard to, um, some language that came over from the Senate. It was already codified elsewhere in 2025, uh, and the Senate Bill was, 23 was not needed. It actually had to do with the very same thing in regard to, uh, amounts allowed in the Public Retirement Systems Investment Authority, uh, statute.

177. 0:21:13

     And what we're doing in Senate Bill 23 is putting in the language that was, I believe it was bipartisan for House Bill 1347. Uh, I have, um, for everybody, for the committee, there's, um, there's a letter in here from Safar Shaw, uh, from, um, Mr. Ed Emerson. He was asking for this particular bill alongside our friend Morgan Wurst with the Georgia, uh, Firefighters Fund. There's also a letter of support from the Metro Atlanta Chamber because this does affect some, uh, city of Atlanta, which, uh, pensions which are regarded as large retirement systems.

178. 0:21:48

     What this bill is doing, the old bill, House Bill 1347, which did not make crossover, which is now put into Senate Bill 23, what this is doing is raising the amount that's allowed to be put into investments into real estate as well as alternative investments. Alternative investments mostly are going to, uh- ... comprise private equity and private credit. Uh, private credit meaning basically, uh, not...

179. 0:22:18

     Loaning on, uh, various types of, uh, in- investments and so forth. Loans to businesses, things like that. We have, uh, one question. Number 15, I don't know who that is. Representative Buckner.

180. 0:22:32

     Um, so it, I wanna reiterate or qualify or make sure that the, the Georgia Municipal Employees Benefit system requested that real estate be included. Is that correct?

181. 0:22:45

     That's my understanding from this letter from, uh, Mr. Emerson, yes.

182. 0:22:49

     'Cause we have notoriously or, or wisely s- said no real estate investments in the other retirement funds.

183. 0:23:00

     I th- it's my understanding that all of these various entities on exhibit A want the flexibility, not necessarily they're, they're going to do that or definitely not immediately. I also wanna point out that, um, and I, as, as chair, I, I, I can go either way, but I do see what an investment director is wanting to do with, um, what I, what I've said to a number of you before is that when so much of our Title 47 Retirement Code was written, uh, fi- uh, equities and fixed income were basically the two main investment options.

184. 0:23:35

     And now you have real estate, you know you have private equity, private credit, and so forth, and we wanna just make sure that this is reflective so that we can achieve those higher returns and really pay more and more COLAs for people, but with, uh, safe returns in, in these categories. And I wanna keep in mind that when these percentages are spelled out in Title 47, this is the maximum amount they can be invested or committed. So they can have a cash investment, but they might have a commitment for 5 million more or 10 million more or whatever.

185. 0:24:08

     That has to be accounted for in that maximum percentage that we're setting in here.

186. 0:24:13

     Thank you.

187. 0:24:13

     I'm open to changes and, um, but this has been, uh, uh, lobbied for quite a bit by, uh, I think City of Atlanta, uh, has, uh, has embraced this as well. Did you, did you wanna say anything?

188. 0:24:30

     It's up to you, Marcy.

189. 0:24:32

     I'm Marcy Rubinson. Marcy Rubinson, Holland & Knight. I represent both the cities of Atlanta and the cities of, city of Savannah and, um, they both support this legislation.

190. 0:24:45

     But again, this is exactly the same as House Bill 1347. Uh, I'm sorry. I think that was number... Sorry? I think, I, the, uh, the other investment authority bill that we passed earlier. I had a question over here earlier. You asked, you said, you answered my question. Got it. All right. Any questions on the bill? We don't have any speakers lined up. Any, uh... Do I hear a motion?

191. 0:25:13

     Move to pass. Not for this, not for these groups. Move to pass.

192. 0:25:17

     Second.

193. 0:25:18

     Move to pass from Representative Jenkins. We have a second from, I think, Representative Wilk- or, okay, Representative Evans. All... Any further discussion? All in favor say aye.

194. 0:25:29

     Aye.

195. 0:25:30

     All opposed. Thank you so much. Okay. Senator Hickman, we're getting to you.

196. 0:25:40

     So this is... I'm sorry, I had number 15 on. Debbie, did you have something? No, just- Okay. Yeah. So this is Senate Bill, uh, 150. This is something in regard to that the House has already passed a, a similar measure, uh, under, uh, Representative Ballard's bill. This is, uh, also in regard to bringing needed teachers back to work. Senator Hickman, floor is yours, sir.

197. 0:26:09

     Yes. And thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for hearing only today, and I appreciate the, um, the interest in the bill. Um, I wi- I will say this bill did pass the Senate 48 to 1. Um, I'm gonna draw a little bit of background on why we're, why we're doing all this before we actually get into the bill. Um, this is really a return to work bill for teachers. Uh, why is this important? I think if we talk to anybody in the General Assembly they say the generals, the House and Senate has never been more focused on education than they have in the last two or three, four years.

198. 0:26:40

     And we know that if we don't have teachers in the classroom, then our students will not be reading. And I can give you some examples of that in just a minute. So if we don't, if, if we don't have fully prepared certified educators in the classroom, our students will not, not, not succeed. I love to do a quote that Jody Barrow, Dr. Jody Barrow does from Prof- from Professional Standards Commission. "Georgia cannot deliver on its commitment to students withou- without a strong teacher workforce. Educators are the only workforce," think about this, "educators are the only workforce whose performance determines the quality and size of all future workforces." That's how important teachers are, and that's how important it is to have teachers in the classroom.

199. 0:27:25

     I'm sure many of you have heard, heard, had phone calls about this bill and, and, and, and, uh, Chairman Ballard's bill. We are, we are currently on a bill, House Bill 385, it ex- it expired June the 30th of 26. That's why this bill is so important. It not only mirrors a lot of that bill, but it also expands that bill. We have worked very closely, uh, with Dr. Jody Barrow of Professional Standards Commission. We've also worked with retired director of TRS, Mr. Buster Evans, and now executive director of TRS, uh, Mr.

200. 0:27:57

     Jason Branch, who, uh, is in the room today.

201. 0:28:04

     The House and Senate identified literacy, or as I say many times, illiteracy, as a real problem in Georgia. When we shared with each of you in this room the percentage of students in third and fifth grade in your Senate d- Senate and House district that were not reading on grade level, I think we all thought it was okay when they might have been reading in North Georg- not reading in North Georgia, but when I was able to tell them that, uh, Representative Franklin, that they were not reading in Statesboro and Savanna, around Ma- Mary Live and Statesboro High School and all that, that's when it really started coming home to people.

202. 0:28:37

     Um, per, per Dr. Barra, w- well, uh, he puts out a report every year in December where he determines, or his, or Professional Standards determines the number of, of, um, vacancies there are for f- for fully prepared certified educators in the classroom, and these numbers will astound you. They always have me. In '23 to '24, we had over 6,000 vacancies in classrooms. That meant that there was not a fully prepared certified teacher in the classroom.

203. 0:29:08

     In '24, '25, it was five, 5,300. We just got the numbers a few days ago for '25 to '26, 5,358 vacancies, and that goes anywhere from zero, obviously, to, uh, Fulton County has 1,051 vacancies in December of '25. You think about that. Would you want your child or s- or grandchild to be in a classroom that did not have a fully certified teacher in the classroom?

204. 0:29:40

     I don't think so. I don't think so. And let me, let me just kind of drill it back to my hometown or my, my area. Um, Evans County, Dr. Brad Anderson, I talked to him in, in September this year, September '25. In K through 5, he had six vacancies in classroom. Now, keep in mind, Evans County is one of the 5% lowest counties, in the 5% lowest counties in Georgia as far as, you know, student preparation. They had six vacancies.

205. 0:30:12

     Kindergarten had one, grade one had one, grade two had one, grade three had two, grade five had one, total of six. As of about three weeks ago, he still had three vacancies in those classrooms. So th- these kids, these students have gone, what, seven months, eight months, six months, whatever it is, all this period of time without a degreed teacher in the classroom.

206. 0:30:39

     You know, how would we like for our child or grandchild to be in that classroom with no certified teacher? So that's why this bill, bill is important. Key provisions of this bill, a teacher cannot return to work 100%... A teacher can return to work 100% after teaching 25 years and retiring. As we well know, there's a, was a one-year waiting period, but as we all also know, that there's a 49% deal that a lot of people work with where they go back and work 49% of the time for the nine months.

207. 0:31:13

     My understanding is they can work 49% for nine months, and then 100% for the other three months. According to TRS, who manages the, uh, retirement system, the average retirement age, uh, average retirement period of time has been, is 25 years. So we're not just pulling a number out of the air. This is a number that has been in the system now over a long period of time, and the average is 25 years. So in our case, and there's been, where the confusion came about, a lot of people thought that our bill meant that they could come back, they could retire to 100% after 25 years.

208. 0:31:48

     That is not true. There's still a penalty bru- for retiring at 25 years versus 30 years. There's, just like there's a penalty if you draw your Social Security at 65 versus, Mr. Chairman, 67 and a half or 68, whatever that number is, there's a penalty. But you know, we tell people, for the most part, me as a CPA, and I'm honored to be in your class today, um, as another CPA, we tell people, you know, I personally say, "Well, you may wanna go on and get it, because you may not live that long," type of deals.

209. 0:32:18

     Um, so, so the 25 is where we came up with that. We work very closely with the public school, uh, system in Georgia. Class is K through 12, one-year waiting period, like I said. Now let me tell you the courses that we, we've identified. English language arts, science, social studies, special education, math, career, technical, and agricultural education. These people must hold a current dyslexia or readings endorsement or can de- or can demonstrate specific training and skills in the science of reading appro- approved by the Professional Standards Commission.

210. 0:33:00

     Mr., Mr. Chairman, I will admit, I was aggressive. I, I, I thought, as, as a lot of us n- think that we know it all. But, but, you know, whenever we first had the, um, the fiscal note done on, on the, on it from the actual study, I thought that we could drop it down to probably two or three months if we had it like that, and it blew the numbers out of sight. That's when I immediately got back in touch with, and met that, met with Mr. uh, Russell Evans and, and, uh, uh, Mr. Jason Branch, and we dropped, we changed that to a one-year waiting period.

211. 0:33:34

     When we changed it to a one-year waiting period, and you've got the fiscal note in your, in your file, that, that then went to no cost to the TRS. And I know y'all do it in the House the same way we do it in the Senate. Y'all abide by the fiscal notes, and the fiscal note says a million dollars, we believe it's a million dollars. The fiscal note on this bill says there's no cost to the TRS system, and that's what I'd ask us to believe on. So this bill, um, the bill that I'm talking to you about, has a sunset provision of eight years.

212. 0:34:04

     I really believe it, with the work that Chairman Irwin is doing in education and we're doing in the Senate- And the implications in all the college and universities in Georgia are so focused now on teachers and putting, educating teachers. And, and not only that, um, Representative Rice I saw here earlier today, we gonna make it known, I want everybody in this room to ... If, if your child or grandchild goes to a college or university and wants to be a teacher, I want you, because you're paying the bill, to know what grade that school gets for teaching a, a student how to be the teacher.

213. 0:34:44

     And Representative Rice's bill, who sat right up there a few minutes ago, that's what her bill is doing for us, and I'm very proud of her for doing that. So, so that's why this is so important. We've gotta have, we've gotta have teacher in classroom, very important. Um, the difference in, and, and I was going to share this with you, the difference between our bill and, um, Chairman Ballard's bill, and Chairman Ballard and I worked so close together on so much literacy stuff, um, ours had r- ours has, lowers retirement age to 25, but that's the average retirement age of teachers now anyway.

214. 0:35:16

     It's not anything that we dreamed up. Uh, lowers it to 25. Hers keeps it at 30. Um, ours, our bill adds science, social studies, and CTAE as going back in the classroom. Her bill does not have those in there. Um, that's basically the only difference in the two, in the two bills. Both bills have, have no cost to the TRS program. So I'm appreciate the hearing only today, and I appreciate the, uh, appreciate the attention. And I know that, I know that the House is just as focused on education as the Senate is.

215. 0:35:51

     Thank you.

216. 0:35:52

     We are, and, uh, I can tell you we're, we're working with your chamber in regard to the Literacy Act that was passed. It's a, it's a key House, uh-

217. 0:36:00

     Yes, sir

218. 0:36:01

     ... uh, priority. Uh, number 27, uh, Chairman Tarvin.

219. 0:36:06

     Yes, sir.

220. 0:36:06

     Yes, sir.

221. 0:36:07

     Yes, sir.

222. 0:36:07

     You, you, you mentioned 49%.

223. 0:36:11

     Yes, sir.

224. 0:36:11

     Does this, this extend that to more than 49%? That's what I want to make sure.

225. 0:36:16

     Well, what they have to do in, in this, uh, you know, a lot of people for years have been going back and working 49%.

226. 0:36:22

     Yeah, I understand.

227. 0:36:22

     So theoretically in, in this bill and, and, and Representative Ballard's bill, that person can go back, if they want to, they can go back and work 49% for one year, so-called waiting period, and then they can come into both of these bills and, and receive their retirement. And-

228. 0:36:39

     And still work. And work

229. 0:36:40

     ... and teach a salary. Yes, sir.

230. 0:36:41

     Okay. So we have literally big numbers, thousands of teachers that are willing to come back to work if it was changed, I believe. That's correct?

231. 0:36:54

     Yes, sir. Yes, sir. I, I, I really believe that, too. Based on my phone, based on the phone, I've had teachers call me from as far as in the mountains of North Georgia to the, to, to the ocean in St. Simons. You know, they're all over-

232. 0:37:07

     Well, staggering numbers that, of, of 5,000. I understand that, that like in the next year, it's, they're looking at maybe 400 more vacancies is what I've been reading.

233. 0:37:17

     Oh, really?

234. 0:37:18

     Yeah. So thank you for bringing the bill.

235. 0:37:21

     Well, I, I tell you, I, I got, I got on this kick. Um, I'm a Georgia Southern graduate, and I got on this kick when the, um, um, went out to Georgia Southern one day to a recruiting fair when Gr- um, when the Governor's Honors program was there. And, um, they had all the different schools, had engineering, like business, um, blah, blah, blah type, had education here. And, and there was all these students talking to these other p- places. And I went up to the lady that was in education, and many of y'all, many of y'all in this room would, would, would relate to this.

236. 0:37:53

     Maybe this g- this representative would not. But I s- I told her, I said, "You look like a Maytag repairman. You're sitting here by yourself. Nobody needs you." And she said, "I had a student," and she didn't, I didn't have my name tag on. I, she said, "I had a student come up here a few minutes ago," and she said, "talking to me about wanting to be a teacher." And said, "Her mama came and got her and said, 'No, you don't need to be a teacher. You need to come over here.'" And that really c- said, you know, what's wrong with the system? We've got to figure out, and that's why we asked Dr. Barrow to hold these meetings with all the ...

237. 0:38:25

     I, I'm a c- I'm a CPA, uh, Chairman Carson's a CPA. I'm not qualified to know why people don't want to be teachers, but I do know who is qualified. Dr. Jody Barrow is qualified. USG is qualified, TCSG. So we had a Senate resolution, and we got them all in a room, and we said, "Now, we want y'all to break down the silos." And Dr. Barrow came up with a, with an extensive report that, and I think I mentioned a few minutes ago to some people here, that I think Dr. Barrow gave me the other day, that we, the Senate and House together, have now passed over 23 bills that have come out of that, just by these people getting in a room and talking to each other.

238. 0:39:05

     And that's, that's what, that's what this is about. Thank you for your question, sir.

239. 0:39:11

     If I could just point out, or just ask the, uh, the author, and I know we have some more questions. There is the, the, there are the changes in line 61 through 69. This is basically removing the, uh, requirements for area of highest need as for a RESA, as determined by the Department of Education. You're removing those requirements, correct?

240. 0:39:31

     Yes, sir.

241. 0:39:31

     And that is a difference between yours and Chairman Ballard's bill. Can you comment to that?

242. 0:39:36

     Yes, sir. Because I can, um, I think I got ... Well, I didn't bring it with me. I've got a report by Dr. Bar- by, uh, Dr. Jo- Jody Barrow that gave me, that gave every school system in Georgia the vacancies, and it's all over Georgia. It is, it's, it's anywhere from zero to, like I said, in, in Fulton County it's 1,051. In our county, uh, Representative, uh, Franklin, I think it's like 18 or 10 or something like that. Very, very few counties have zero vacancies.

243. 0:40:07

     Now, is that Bulloch County?

244. 0:40:08

     Bulloch County, that's right.

245. 0:40:10

     Yeah.

246. 0:40:11

     Yeah.

247. 0:40:11

     Um, the bigger the county-

248. 0:40:12

     That, that, that's why we spread it. Excuse me, sir. That's why we spread it throughout Georgia.

249. 0:40:15

     Got it.

250. 0:40:16

     Vice Chairman Franklin. So I, I just want to thank you for bringing this bill. It's much needed. Um, and, uh, just commend you for all the work you've done with literacy and, uh- Right ... education throughout- Thank you ... you know, your, your work. So it's, you've been a big, big advocate on it, and I hope to see something like this pass this. Well, one of the questions I have, though, is, um, right here when it, it, it talks about, uh, with the English Language Arts, the, um, they have to hold a current dyslexia, um, or reading endorsement with it, which I think is outstanding, is great. But, um, I was wondering if you'd just talk a little bit about that and the impact of it and the need for that, one.

251. 0:40:50

     But at the same time, is it... I don't wanna, um, um... Do all the, the certificates have that? I mean, I don't wanna hinder a teacher from, um, being able to come in to teach in that, that subject matter that may not have that specific qualification, or do they all have it? Well, you know, now, as a part of, um, Representative Ballard's bill, um- Yeah. And it could be in Ballard's bill as well ... uh, 538, uh, brought back the science of reading, and they have to have that coming out of school now, and they have to have it in the system. But if, but if we got a, we got someone who's retired a year or two ago and still wants to come back in, we wanted to make sure they had those endorsements.

252. 0:41:26

     All right. So it wouldn't, it wouldn't hamper, it wouldn't, um, uh- Hinder ... it hindered the, the pool- No ... of teachers coming in and, yeah. I haven't had anybody tell me that. I think it's outstanding, 'cause we do need to check, uh, for dyslexia in the- Yeah ... in the schools, so. Well, you know, what we're finding out is that, uh, and I, and I know we're in a hearing only thing, but, you know, when, when we were all in school, we had those kids that sit at the back of, sit at the back room or sit at the back room and told jokes and cut up all the time. We just thought they were dumb, you know? But what now we're finding out, they may have been dyslexic.

253. 0:41:57

     They may have been, and y'all passed a vision and hearing bill. Um, they may have been ADHD. I mean, there's all these factors coming, coming into place now. So- Mm-hmm ... so we need to know.

254. 0:42:11

     You figured it on the jokes. Thank you, sir. Um, we have a couple of speakers to the bill, but I, I did have one more question- ... unless anybody else from the committee had questions. So just so I'm clear, you're not requiring that the standard retirement age for teachers go down to 25 years.

255. 0:42:28

     Yes, sir.

256. 0:42:28

     This is only a requirement, this is only a s- that they are able, that teachers are able to retire at 25, which is still an early retirement, and but then go back into teaching after one year.

257. 0:42:42

     That's correct, sir.

258. 0:42:43

     After sitting out, quote, unquote, "at 49%" or-

259. 0:42:45

     There's a penalty. The, and, and they got that penalty now. They retire at 25 versus 30. There's a penalty for retiring early. That penalty's not gonna go away.

260. 0:42:55

     I guess where I'm going, a- and I, I don't know if anybody is here from Department of Audits and Accounts, it's just, ah, it's just puzzling to me, and we have three CPAs here. We, don't forget about, uh, our-

261. 0:43:07

     Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, yeah, yeah

262. 0:43:07

     ... Chairman Wilkerson over here. Yeah.

263. 0:43:09

     Yeah. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

264. 0:43:10

     It's just puzzling to me, Senator, that this has zero cost, but we're talking about teachers potentially stepping away and retiring earlier. Yes, with a, maybe, I, I don't know if I would call it a penalty, maybe it is a penalty, less of a retirement benefit, retiring at 25 and not 30, coming out of the workforce, not contributing to TRS, taking those benefits in, say, year 27 of their career, because they would work 25 years.

265. 0:43:38

     Uh-huh.

266. 0:43:38

     And I'm looking at Chairman Wilkerson when I'm looking at this. They would teach for 25 years, step away for one year, go back in their 27th year, and they're not making TRS contributions, but they are teaching again. I, I don't know if it would be positive or negative. It's just bewildering to not have any fiscal impact.

267. 0:43:59

     Well, sir, the only thing I can say, you know, I, um, I do tax work a little bit, audit work. I'm not actual-

268. 0:44:05

     As, I know you do. Yeah

269. 0:44:06

     ... and so, um, we just have to rely on the, uh, actual study.

270. 0:44:12

     Are you good? I'm good. Any other questions, committee? We do have, uh, two speakers to the bill. Um, Mr. Aycock with, uh, with Paige. There he is.

271. 0:44:24

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hello, everybody. My name is Robert Aycock with the Professional Association of Georgia Educators. On behalf of our 94,000, uh, educators across the state, we'd just like to thank Chairman Hickman for bringing this bill. Um, as we were glad to do when, uh, Bethany Ballard brought HB 372, we're happy to stand in strong support of this bill. It's a, um, widely needed and very important tool for filling, uh, high-need, hard-to-fill positions across the state. And while I know that this is a hearing only, I just urge the committee to consider action in the near future, and that the, uh, both chambers continue to support both bills and work towards a solution so this, uh, important program does not expire at the end of this year.

272. 0:45:04

     Thank you.

273. 0:45:05

     Thank you very much. Uh, we have one more. Any questions from the committee?

274. 0:45:09

     Oh. Yes, sir. Good.

275. 0:45:11

     Did you have something else, Robert?

276. 0:45:13

     No, I just wanted to make sure there weren't questions.

277. 0:45:15

     Got it. Uh, Stephanie Tanner, GSBA, go ahead.

278. 0:45:20

     Hey there. I am Stephanie Tanner with the Georgia School Boards Association, representing all 180 school districts. Wanna say thank you to Chairman Carson for bringing the bill forward today and to Chairman Hickman for the great work he's done on Return to Work and SR 237. Um, this is not only a priority for GSBA, it's a priority with our friends at Paige, GSSA, and GALE. Um, not all districts use Return to Work, but the ones that do love it and really want the program to continue.

279. 0:45:56

     Um, it's a, a program that helps teachers, because we get highly qualified teachers in high-needs areas in the classroom. It's good for students and good for districts as a whole. So it's really important that we get this across the finish line as soon as possible so this program can continue. Um, and I just thank y'all for having the hearing today. Thank you so much.

280. 0:46:21

     Appreciate it.

281. 0:46:21

     Well said. Thank you.

282. 0:46:22

     Thank you very much.

283. 0:46:26

     Any other questions to the committee? Author, do you have any more, um, anything else you'd like to add? I, I don't... This is definitely the beginning of a conversation that, well, it, from my standpoint, is it might be continuing for years.

284. 0:46:38

     Yes. Well, no, sir, I'm honored that y'all would, um, let us present today. I thank you for doing that.

285. 0:46:43

     Absolutely. Okay. If there's no other questions, folks, we are adjourned.

286. 0:46:49

     Hey, Dave.

287. 0:47:14

     I'll, I'll follow y'all out front