House Banks & Banking Committee, March 26, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:13:39

   If y'all are ready to get started, I'm gonna ask, um, Johnny, Representative Chastain if he'll give us a little invocation.

2. 0:13:47

   Johnny,

3. 0:13:52

   yeah.

4. 0:13:52

   What number are you, Johnny?

5. 0:13:53

   Uh, looks like 27 maybe.

6. 0:13:55

   All right. The, the ta-

7. 0:13:57

   Sounds about right.

8. 0:13:57

   Sounds right.

9. 0:13:59

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Let's pray. Dear Heavenly Father, we thank You, Lord, for this day, this beautiful day that You've given us. We thank You for all the blessings that You bestowed upon each and every one of us. We don't never wanna forget that. Thank you for j- just the ability to be here today. We ask that You guide, uh, this committee, uh, and the group of folks that are here with us today, and that we make the best decisions for the great state of Georgia. We ask all this in Your name we pray. Amen.

10. 0:14:24

    Amen.

11. 0:14:24

    Amen. Thank you, sir. Um, at this time, I'd, I'd like to thank all of the members for being here this beautiful, um, Thursday afternoon at 1:00. Thank you all for being here. And-

12. 0:14:34

    I thought Billy was bringing samples. That's the reason I came.

13. 0:14:37

    Well, I've-

14. 0:14:38

    Go ahead

15. 0:14:38

    ... he had, he ha- he hasn't made his presentation yet. Um, at this time, I would like, um, the good senator to come up and present his bill.

16. 0:14:55

    Reverend Mitchell, do you have anything to add?

17. 0:14:57

    Uh, yes, sir.

18. 0:14:58

    He wants to ask a question.

19. 0:14:59

    I got a plethora of questions.

20. 0:15:03

    At this time, let's- Go ahead, Martin.

21. 0:15:05

    All right.

22. 0:15:06

    Senator.

23. 0:15:07

    There's been, been some changes since we've met previously with the committee, so it came really from y'all. I want, I wanna say something to you. You know, we fight like this sometime that battle over our bill or this bill. Um, and I was kind of that way. Say, "Man, you take my bill away from me," but I'll be be hon- I'm gonna be honest with you. It has been positive, more positive than I ever dreamed when I shared what we were doing with the State Treasurer, Steve McCoy. He said, "This is a good thing. This is, this is how it could be done. I like that." And then I had the privilege of meeting two mem- two people.

24. 0:15:40

    Um, Sunita Zahra is our commissioner of securities, and she said, "We like it." They have been following Florida. They've been following Texas as well. So that was good, and they knew exactly what we were talking about. And then Thomas Nary is their legislative liaison. And I don't know about you, but I, I, I didn't know they existed. And we had a really good conversation of y'all's substitute to the bill, and what it did, it really did these following things from a standpoint-

25. 0:16:08

    Uh, Senator, will you, will you let us know the LC and the substitute, please?

26. 0:16:12

    Oh, excuse me. I'm sorry. LC620490S.

27. 0:16:20

    Okay.

28. 0:16:22

    So in the, uh, bill, the things that have changed, it changed from Title 50 to Title 10, which brings it into commodities. The regulatory authority changes from a depository, uh, bill- bullion depository commission to the commissioner of securities. So those two things ch- will ch- change, which came from y'all's substitute, and I believe Todd Jones helped put that together as far as that. But really, it, it brought it right in, and I'll be honest, this morning as we talked with the, uh, commissioner of securities, they were on goal with what we were doing.

29. 0:16:58

    Did, did I say that, on goal? Okay. Uh, in that respect. The, uh, depository issue takes out any state depository at all, which was one of the concerns that was there. These would all be private in that nature that would be regulated by them. Um, au- the authorization for the depositories and the electronic payment systems would all be under the security commissioner. Uh, it complies with both federal and state law from that standpoint, uh, and sh- she deals with that for us, so that was great.

30. 0:17:31

    Um, it's voluntary. It's not required. Nobody's there. It allows the government, uh, government to, um, deal with the tax issue, is that when you buy gold, if it's legal tender, there's not a sales tax on it, and when you sell it under state tax only, not federal tax, there would not be a tax there because it would be declared as currency in that respect. Um, annual reports would be the same except they would go to the security commissioner, um, from that standpoint.

31. 0:18:04

    The only other thing that's here that actually we would've been under under either one, but it specifically in the sub, it ex- specifically addresses the Commodity Exchange Act and Securities Exchange Act of 1934, which I was not there then, and then the Bank Secrecy Act that was as, as, as... Well, that was included in the verbiage here. But as I understand it from them, it would've been applied anyhow, but that's specific within the bill. Um, the, the changes were good changes, and all the parties, I don't know if they're here or not, but they were gonna be here for the, um-

32. 0:18:42

    Securities Commissioner and her, um, they had another m- meeting. They were gonna be here as well. And then, uh, I think Steve McCory was gonna send somebody just to kind of be here as their support. But, uh, it really brought things together. And I appreciate the committee, and I appreciate the work that was done in, uh, bringing it together. And, um, I'm here to answer questions.

33. 0:19:04

    Thank, thank you, Chairman. Um, at this time, do we have any questions from the committee? Let's see, the first one, 28.

34. 0:19:11

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, and, uh, thank you, Senator, for, uh, entertaining a committee substitute. When you say the work of the committee, this committee member, it's the first time I've seen this substitute, so it's sort of I'm seeing it for the first time. And pardon me, Mr. Chairman, has this been distributed before?

35. 0:19:27

    Uh, this was the one that, um, Representative Jones had and-

36. 0:19:31

    I just had not seen it. Uh,

37. 0:19:36

    so you're saying that this is not gonna be regulated by the Department of Banking and Finance?

38. 0:19:41

    It will be regulated by the Securities Commissioner, uh, which is under the Secretary of State.

39. 0:19:47

    And who is our Securities Commissioner? I didn't know we had a commissioner.

40. 0:19:50

    I'm glad you and I learn things.

41. 0:19:53

    Yes, sir.

42. 0:19:54

    Uh, Nuala Zahara is the commissioner.

43. 0:19:56

    It's, I, I knew that she was the, the, the re-

44. 0:19:59

    Is Assistant Commissioner. Apparently, from what I understand, it goes under the sec- um, Secretary of State, and then she is the assignee, if you will, for the designation side. The way her card reads is Assistant Commissioner of Securities, is how it does.

45. 0:20:12

    And we're making this legal tender in the State of Georgia. Are we waiving any income taxes? So it's, it's still a commodity and trades as such, does it not?

46. 0:20:21

    I- if the commodity side, if we'll declare it as legal tender-

47. 0:20:25

    If you buy it, there would not be sales tax, 'cause it would be currency for-

48. 0:20:29

    And currently there's not sales tax on it, is there?

49. 0:20:31

    Uh, I believe there is.

50. 0:20:32

    Is there?

51. 0:20:32

    I believe there is, yes.

52. 0:20:34

    Okay.

53. 0:20:34

    And what would also go away would be the capital gains. If you bought it at $500 and sold it at $1,000, that gain, if the value of that gold or silver had gone up, there would not... The capital gains at the state level would not apply.

54. 0:20:49

    And nor the s- nor the short-term capital gains.

55. 0:20:52

    Correct. Correct.

56. 0:20:53

    But, but you would still be subject to federal-

57. 0:20:56

    That's correct

58. 0:20:57

    ... capital gains. So it's not... You know, we typically, um... A further question, is isn't it true that the State of Georgia's income tax code, for the most part, tracks our federal income tax code for, uh-

59. 0:21:11

    Yep

60. 0:21:11

    ... we, we basically follow them for the majority of the items. And so do we have any fiscal note on this, if we're gonna be giving up revenue to the state?

61. 0:21:20

    There's not a, there was not a fiscal note on th- that specific part of it, from that standpoint. There was on the expense of the depositories and of the, um-

62. 0:21:30

    But the, is it not true this is a new measure then, and we'll be foregoing otherwise state revenue that's collect now?

63. 0:21:38

    Now.

64. 0:21:38

    So it would be a fiscal impact.

65. 0:21:40

    Right.

66. 0:21:40

    We just don't know what that fiscal impact would be.

67. 0:21:41

    Don't, don't know what it would be. But I think it will also bring business to the State of Georgia as well.

68. 0:21:46

    I, I'm, I'm not arguing that.

69. 0:21:48

    Right.

70. 0:21:48

    But isn't it true that we don't have a fiscal note on this measure?

71. 0:21:51

    Yes, sir.

72. 0:21:52

    Okay.

73. 0:21:52

    We have it on the operational side, but not on that impact.

74. 0:21:55

    A- and just one follow-up question. Do you, given any stu- uh, thought maybe having a study committee on this issue? Because it's pretty substantial, uh, move forward. I know that the first iteration of the bill, I got tremendous amount of feedback from, uh, the investment community, primarily dealing with gold, that they were, didn't like that, um, metric. I don't know that the general public's even had a chance to see this committee substitute. Would you be open-minded if the s- if this committee maybe hit the pause button and, and, uh, maybe within the committee had a study committee to, uh, look at this over the, over the summer before we make-

75. 0:22:31

    Second

76. 0:22:31

    ... a policy like this?

77. 0:22:32

    Well, I, I, I appreciate that. What I see is this, is that Florida has just p- passed their regs and rules. They are moving forward. Texas has done the same thing. And i- we're talking another study committee, another session. We'll be 24 to, you know, 24 to 36 months behind. And that what this would allow is sh- the Department of Security, the Securities Commissioner still will have 12 months to do the rules and the regs that have to be created before we can even be operational in that respect.

78. 0:23:03

    I don't know. That's, that's one I would like to see us move forward with, since other states have. Uh, I respect, you know, your, your position as well.

79. 0:23:10

    Well, one final, final question then. If you're saying those states are ahead of us, would anything preclude a citizen of the State of Georgia for just u- uh, bottom line, using the, uh, the facilities set up by Florida or any other state?

80. 0:23:23

    They could use any of those. It would not be legal tender in the state. There would not be the i- tax impact that would be there from that standpoint.

81. 0:23:31

    Well, okay. Thank you.

82. 0:23:33

    Okay.

83. 0:23:35

    Uh, number 15.

84. 0:23:39

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

85. 0:23:40

    Okay.

86. 0:23:40

    Thank you, uh, Senator, for bringing this back again to us. Uh, the Securities, uh, Commissioner is a new, um, thing to me as well. Is that person present with you today?

87. 0:23:54

    Let's see.

88. 0:23:56

    Oh, I've seen her before.

89. 0:23:58

    Oh, okay.

90. 0:23:58

    Okay.

91. 0:23:59

    You-

92. 0:23:59

    Uh, the-

93. 0:24:00

    Do you wanna... Would you w- m- is it all right if she comes down?

94. 0:24:03

    Sure.

95. 0:24:03

    Sure.

96. 0:24:03

    Come on.

97. 0:24:16

    Mr. Chairman, since we are... This is a, a, a big change from where we were last week in terms of where it would be housed and that kind of thing. I was just curious as to, um, how this would interface with, uh, banking and the other financial services areas, since this is the Secretary of State, not, not Department of Banking, how all of this would work.

98. 0:24:44

    C- can I get you to address some of the things that you see?

99. 0:24:48

    Yeah.

100. 0:24:48

     Okay. Is that, is that okay?

101. 0:24:50

     Sure. Sure.

102. 0:24:53

     Thank you. Thank you. Um, well, the, um, Commodities Act is under the Securities Act, is under currently the Georgia Commodities Act, so we do have some experience in dealing with, um, commodities in our division, so th- we thought this would be, because we have that experience, this would be a good, the, the proper p- place to be.

103. 0:25:17

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

104. 0:25:19

     Number one.

105. 0:25:22

     Noon, and, um, thank you. Uh, but I have a couple of questions. Um, what analysis has been done on how shifting the deposits into a billion system will impact the lending capacity for local banks? How's this gonna impact the lending capacity for local banks?

106. 0:25:41

     I don't think it affects a bank at all, because this gold would be owned by citizens who either ha- currently own it physically, and may have it in their safety deposit box or other things, so it doesn't really affect a, um, a banking's capa- capacity to loan money or anything of that nature. This is making gold and silver as legal tender like money, and that's really not going to affect them. Most people hold their gold as a store of value as far as that portion. Now, I am assuming also that you are a Florida fan, not a Georgia fan.

107. 0:26:14

     Am I correct?

108. 0:26:14

     That's right, 100.

109. 0:26:15

     Okay. I just wanted to make sure that there was no, uh, no, no, no confusion on that part.

110. 0:26:22

     Okay. So, so, uh, so how does this bill protect the community banks and credit unions from losing deposits to s- to the system, to the state-run system? How does it do-

111. 0:26:33

     Most of those facilities do not usually handle any type of gold or silver unless it is inside their depository boxes, things of that nature. And so that, that portion I don't think really affects them, 'cause gold is usually seen as a store of value that people hold as a, I'll call it a rainy day fund, or something that they're using to stay ahead of inflation as far as that, because gold and silver have also been hedges for inflation.

112. 0:27:00

     Okay, one more. Uh, okay, you know that, uh, uh, we have been s- I have been receiving hundreds of emails in regards to this, um, bill, uh, with the citizens and, uh, some people that own gold saying that, uh, they don't think that this is the right thing for Georgia right now.

113. 0:27:21

     Mm.

114. 0:27:21

     And so I'm gonna-

115. 0:27:22

     Right

116. 0:27:22

     ... uh, piggyback off, off of my friend on the end that, uh, that we come up with a study committee and look at this further.

117. 0:27:30

     Right.

118. 0:27:30

     And I know that you were saying that Florida, Texas, and all of them have passed it, but we don't wanna rush to judgment here in Georgia, and I think that it might be best that we, um, look at this as a study committee so that we could really, um, see how it gonna have impact on, not on, on the banking system, but on our citizens, um, as we move forward with, um-

119. 0:27:53

     Right

120. 0:27:53

     ... with the Gold and Silver Act.

121. 0:27:55

     This-

122. 0:27:56

     Thank you.

123. 0:27:56

     Right. This is, this is totally voluntary. No one has to use it. I will tell you, there are, most of the ones that I see, the, uh, the negatives that I've seen have come from gold brokers who are afraid that they would lose some, some, some market share in that respect. But the ability to spend your money or gold through a transactional system is, this, is that right now if I took my gold, I have to ship it to a broker, I have to cash it in and wait for him to send me money. Where I can have a transactional, and I have my card, I can simply swipe my card and spend my gold.

124. 0:28:29

     So it gives liquidity to people, and the ability to buy small amounts. I can buy $100 or 250 in money. I can buy smaller amounts, which has not been open to anybody, uh, before as far as being able, if you wanted to buy $250 in gold, you couldn't do it. So the transactional side opens up doors for many people who could not afford it otherwise, and gives them liquidity as well.

125. 0:28:52

     Okay, so how are you going t- uh, to educate the, uh, how are you going to educate the people about this gold and silver? What, how, how are people gonna be educated so that they will be able to learn and understand the process of, um, gold and silver?

126. 0:29:09

     Well, I think one of the things that our, even our educational system needs is courses in personal finance and understanding personal finance. Most people don't know how to really buy a car or buy a house, and this is just really a part of education that I believe that as a state, we could do a whole lot better in getting people educated in the financial side. But gold and silver have been 6,000 years of history, and it's really up until 1977 how our money was backed. It was all backed by gold. So it's not, it's, it's old, but a lot of people just are not familiar with it, and pricing has put it away, where this brings it back into the reach of the average citizen of Georgia.

127. 0:29:48

     Ma'am.

128. 0:29:48

     Thank-

129. 0:29:49

     But thank you.

130. 0:29:49

     Thank you, ma'am. Thank you, ma'am. Let's see, number 27.

131. 0:29:52

     She wanted to finish. Could she?

132. 0:29:54

     Okay. I, I'm sorry, I thought you were-

133. 0:29:55

     No.

134. 0:29:57

     Oh, go-

135. 0:29:58

     May I add to that?

136. 0:29:58

     Go ahead, I'm sorry.

137. 0:29:59

     Thank you. Um, in the securities, our division, we have a very robust financial literacy program, and we, um, very ro- meaning that we go to- throughout communities, um, with, you know, various counties, various, um, groups, such as seniors, even students, colleges, high schools. We're doing robust, uh, financial literacy programs, and if we had this, we would add that as part of the c- you know, education that we provide.

138. 0:30:30

     Thank, thank you. 27.

139. 0:30:31

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you. Thank you, Senator, for being here again today. Appreciate the conversation. So just a couple questions follow up from the last, the last week when we met, but so I've been following gold and silver, as many of us have, for many, many years, and it's a great, you know, it's a great investment. People use, we use it for hedging, we use it for just general investment, and I'm sitting here thinking as a 40-year community banker, I know all the trouble that we have with fraud.

140. 0:31:02

     I mean, we're, we deal with fraud in our banks, in the community banks.

141. 0:31:05

     You can come to United Community Bank one day and just, uh, I can show you, but a lot of fraud. And, and the one thing on the gold, when we met last week, gold was $5,010 an ounce. Does anybody know what it is today? 44. 44. And that, that's, that's one of my things with this as far as turning it into a ... Again, we all, we lo- we love to buy and trade and sell gold, but when you start talking about swiping a card with the general public for buying services when you get that big of swings, I can see all kinds of fraud opportunities in that.

142. 0:31:37

     Uh, and in the bill, you're talking about appropriate fraud prevention measures, but c- can y'all explain, can you give me a couple of what you think, what you're thinking about a fraud prevention measure for, for, for if, if I lose my card. If I lose my gold card and somebody gets it and starts swiping my card. The, the card for s- A card can be swiped. This is a MasterCard card, so it has the guarantees, if you will, for MasterCard in that respect that are there, um, be- because it is, they're getting a fee for their services from that standpoint.

143. 0:32:13

     Um, on the personal side, if you're logging into your account, there's in- security for that, where you have to have a password and all the other things that we're seeing today in the banking area as far as that. And then I know the state works on the fraud prevention issue. I know you may wanna speak about that, 'cause I know we talked a little bit 'cause the other states are dealing with this as well. Yes. If given the authority, we would be able to, you know, open up investigations to look, which would, we would do. Um, there's, um... We would issue subpoenas. We would, um, open, you know, do what we need to do.

144. 0:32:45

     We would also, there's rulemaking, we could create, work with, you know, our stakeholders, our industry, you, uh, and other, you know, stakeholders on creating robust rules that would help us- Okay ... with fraud enforcement. Follow-up? So with- Okay. Thank you, Chair. If I swipe my... If somebody did steal my card, what would be the procedure? Would I, who would I file a dispute with, or who would I come in and see, or? The, I've got, or the bank on the card has a 1-800 number, and I have, uh, copies of all my cards that I keep- Yeah ...

145. 0:33:17

     with that, and I just call and say, "Hey, my card's been stolen." You can go to the app and turn off your card. Also, uh, I had a friend the other day, he lost his, and he, he'd given it to his wife and she was spending it, and I, he put the freeze on it and, uh, and froze it. And then he had, he could unfreeze it through the app itself. He could freeze his, his credit line off of his card. And the, the last follow-up I have, Mr. Chairman? Last follow-up. The, the, the, what would be the ultimate, in your mind, what would be the fee for me to put gold in a bullion center?

146. 0:33:50

     How, how much would I have to pay, or what would be the fee to a consumer for depositing gold in a bullion center? I don't have a rent fee yet. That's part of what we were gonna work out. Okay. And what we do is do an RFP and have competition say, "Hey, here's this, here's this." And then the s- the standards for it would be set up by the s- uh, Securities Commissioner as far as for security, insurance, et cetera, et cetera. And I see that as just, that could be multiples. It could be multiple depositories and, uh, multiple processors as far as that portion, and those fees will be negotiated.

147. 0:34:25

     Just like right now on a credit card, you don't know what the fee is. Only the merchant knows what the fee is, and that's something I think we could be even more transparent about in understanding the fees that we're paying on our credit cards, 'cause that's coming in part.

148. 0:34:40

     Thank you. Number 26. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Senator Harvin- Yes, sir ... first of all, thank you for your thoughtful approach to, uh, the need to hedge for inflation and those things. You are, you are my kindred spirit on the other side of the building- Please talk in the mic, sir. Sorry, Mr. Chairman. You're my kindred spirit on the other side of the, of the building, who, who is amplifying the conversation around inflation. For that, I'm grateful. I, too, like you, have my coin in my pocket at all times. Um, I'm concerned about this bill. I just don't, I'm not sure, because I haven't really studied it yet, that we're not quite ready for primetime, uh, on this yet.

149. 0:35:15

     And just a couple of quick things I'd like to just- Yeah ... point out. Um, this says the Commissioners of Security shall promulgate, promulgate guidelines for bullion depositories that are consistent with industry best practices, et cetera. And as, as members of the legislature, I kinda feel like establishing the, the rules of engagement should be a legislative issue, and we shouldn't surrender that responsibility over to a different branch of government necessarily. Maybe have them oversee the rules once we put them in place, but that's a concern for me, and I, and I, uh, just r- sort of running through a couple of things.

150. 0:35:49

     Um,

151. 0:35:52

     on the privacy on lines 122 to 127, privacy of bullion depository account holders and the participants in an electronic payment system, but i- including but not limited to transaction information shall not be shared with any informa- any other person other than the account holder or participant of the electronic payments. In other words, it talks about privacy. But as a former CEO of a bank, um, I've seen safety deposit box drilled. Uh, you know, people think, "Oh, well, I'll put my things in a safety deposit box, and they'll, they'll just be tucked away there for me," and, but I've seen them get drilled.

152. 0:36:24

     Uh, you know, uh, so privacy is really an elusive concept once you're talking about, uh, people opening up accounts and things like that. And I wanna be careful that we're not sort of being cavalier about that term privacy and suggesting that that, that exists when really it probably doesn't. Um, bullion depositories on lines 132 and 133 shall- Can I, can I answer your first question- Yes, sir ... before I go too far? Most of our rules and regs are promulgated e- by the Insurance Commissioner, our securities people. And I, and, and I'm being candid, I don't know that-

153. 0:36:56

     The legislature totally is, is that, that area, and I know that's what y'all do even now with the security side. So that usually comes through the agency. I know the insurance commissioner does for insurance, that type of thing. And then on your 125 and 126, there was, as we reviewed this with the securities commissioner, there was a, an, a, an amendment that they wanted to make except for the Commissioner of Securities in a legal investigation, that they would have that, but they would have to have due cause from that standpoint.

154. 0:37:26

     So that was added back, was gonna be added in here. There's a, an, we were gonna do an amendment to do that, and that came from them as they looked at the, um, as, at the bill. I just wanted to answer those two questions before we got any-

155. 0:37:38

     Okay.

156. 0:37:39

     I'm sorry.

157. 0:37:39

     I appreciate your answer.

158. 0:37:40

     Thank, thank you.

159. 0:37:41

     Um.

160. 0:37:42

     One more?

161. 0:37:43

     Um.

162. 0:37:46

     Are you-

163. 0:37:47

     Uh, no, it, uh, I'm good, Mr. Chairman. I've got-

164. 0:37:50

     Thank you.

165. 0:37:50

     I, I do appreciate this. This, uh-

166. 0:37:52

     21? Okay.

167. 0:37:58

     Just want to make sure

168. 0:38:04

     we

169. 0:38:18

     I will give you a dol-

170. 0:38:19

     Clear cut

171. 0:38:19

     ... a paper dollar for your silver dollar.

172. 0:38:21

     Yeah, yeah. I sold them. Can I make a motion?

173. 0:38:27

     Let's, let's, let's do one more question, we'll get a motion. Number 17. Ms. Haynes.

174. 0:38:32

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to show these are all of the letters. This is just a few of, of what I'm receiving from those individuals that do not want this legislation. And because we just received this on our desk-

175. 0:38:48

     Mm-hmm

176. 0:38:48

     ... I did not see anything in here as it relates to audit, tracking, compliance. Is all of that left up to the securities or is that just not covered in here?

177. 0:38:58

     I'm gonna let you respond to that, 'cause that is.

178. 0:39:00

     So that would be part of our w- looking, once we get it, looking into making rulemaking so we could have procedures in place. And we are, we would meet with our stakeholders, uh, with industry, with the constituents to make sure that everything is addressed, 'cause our goal is not just to, um, promote innovation and industry, but make sure that the constituents, the c- uh, you know, are not harmed as well.

179. 0:39:26

     Thank you.

180. 0:39:28

     You might wanna, um, g- she was just talking about Florida, and you b- y'all are monitoring Florida and Texas.

181. 0:39:34

     Yes. We have, through our securities, um, relationships, we have very strong relationships with other states, mainly, especially Texas and with Florida as well. So we would, because of our relationships, we could leverage those to work with them to see what they're doing, to see if that would be appropriate for Georgians.

182. 0:39:56

     All right, thank you. I'm gonna have two more questions, then we're gonna try to wrap this up.

183. 0:39:59

     Okay.

184. 0:40:00

     Number 18.

185. 0:40:02

     Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Can I be-

186. 0:40:05

     I'm sorry.

187. 0:40:07

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

188. 0:40:09

     You are 18, right?

189. 0:40:10

     I am 18.

190. 0:40:14

     Thank, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Senator Harbin.

191. 0:40:21

     Testing. All right. Senator Harbin, um, just, just square with me, if you will, uh, some concerns that I, that I have. Um, you know, Georgia has a, a large, uh, unbanked community. Uh, they don't have access, uh, uh, with a traditional bank, uh, and, uh, that's by, you know, the FDIC's own survey, and I suspect many in the unbanked community probably didn't make that survey. Uh, when we put it into a household context, even if they have a banking relationship, almost 11% of the households only rely on brick-and-mortar, uh, banking services.

192. 0:41:03

     I've, I've known some senior citizens that would never think about going to an ATM machine or-

193. 0:41:08

     Yeah

194. 0:41:09

     ... a d- a debit, uh, card. Went into my bank the other day just to talk to a, a, an associate, and my bank requires, uh, some kind of a, a, a threshold to credit to be able to even obtain, uh, a debit card. I was wondering, are those who have credit challenges would be, have access to this? And, and, and lastly, um, uh, did, I think there's some demographic disparities where, for instance, communities of colors and in rural areas, uh, don't have these banking relationships.

195. 0:41:40

     Most of my colleagues here represent rural areas. I think this would eliminate or prohibit a whole class of consumers to be able to participate in this. Uh, give me some confidence in how we'd be able to reach, uh, the, that class of consumer.

196. 0:41:57

     I, I think the, the, um, the educational piece is key as far as that. But if you look at it, if you own a phone today, you have the capacity to be able to transact business and money. I think the unbanked, and that is an issue, I'll be candid with you, I have a problem with, uh, our own, I'm gonna say airport and even cafeterias that don't take cash anymore. Uh, what do you do with someone who has no credit card? But I think what this would open up, if they've got the, uh, the money to buy, let's say they bought $500 worth of gold, and that was bought with a check or however they wanted to do it, it can be done either way, they would then have access to their money through that card, but only to the limit of the money they had, or the gold they had in that account.

197. 0:42:41

     So I think this is it. As I look, the young people today do not have checkbooks. They have a phone, and more and more of our money is moving towards that, um, and digital, I call it digital currency. But I think it could open a door. If you had a phone, you could have an account, and you could spend your money that way. So I think there's, the technology is there, and that's where the educational side is gonna be in place as well.

198. 0:43:08

     Thank you. Um, Ms. Clark on the 13th.

199. 0:43:11

     All right. Thank you, Mr. Chair, and I do apologize. I was not able to be at the first, um, meeting, so I hope this question hasn't already been answered. But in the states where this has already been implemented, how are they handling these fluctuations in the value of gold? Like, h- a- and I'm, and I'm, I'm gonna be very clear about my question. Uh, using a card, because when I think of a debit card, I think of I deposited $100 in the bank, I can spend $100.

200. 0:43:42

     I go and I give this business $100, and they expect there to be $100. But if I go and I give them this gold card, and in the moment I bought something for $5,000, and technically it was worth $5,000 that day, but now the value of gold has dropped, as a business owner, how will I square the fact that technically it d- like, how are they handling these fluctuations?

201. 0:44:12

     The, the card is, the card, you can look on your app and see what your value is. I can look at my value right now and know what it is. My card's gonna be limited to whatever I have in the value, and it goes up and it goes down. So it's like, really, uh, if you own any stocks at all-

202. 0:44:27

     Mm-hmm

203. 0:44:27

     ... it goes up and down, and you can look at that. I have it on my phone. I can tell you one day Tesla's doing well, and one day Tesla's not doing well. So the same thing, except gold is a little bit different. It d- gold is a, has been a storehouse of value. Today, banks buy gold as a st- stability foundation from that standpoint. And if you look at financial planning, you have a base and then you build upward. You have cash, you have, you might have gold or you might have th- different assets that go up, stocks, bonds, as it moves upward.

204. 0:45:00

     But what this does, it gives you the ability to own gold. You don't, you may not transact business, but you have the ability of liquidity. If I buy a stock, I have to go to my broker and sell and wait for the money to be transferred. Here, I have access to the money. So if I'm putting $100 a month and I find an emergency, I had a flat tire, I could swipe my card for $300. I would know what was in my account as soon as I looked at my app to do that.

205. 0:45:30

     So on the business side of that-

206. 0:45:32

     Mm-hmm

207. 0:45:32

     ... they received the... When they receive it, is it just received as just $5,000, or is it received as $5,000 in gold?

208. 0:45:42

     Oh, it's, it's gonna be 5,000. I do this. I, uh, I bought my lunch the other day and I asked the lady, I said, "Can I pay for it in gold?" And she looked at me kinda funny, and I swiped my MasterCard, which was tied to my gold account. And she says, "How'd you do that?" And I showed her what was going on, and she said, "Wow, that's neat," uh, that she could own it. So it does give you liquidity that you would not have otherwise. Yes, it does move up and down in the market, but as a whole, it's a stable value that's been around for 6,000 years, and it's where our money used to be tied to.

209. 0:46:14

     Thank, thank you. We have one more, and then we're gonna try to resolve, try to get out of here. Number 25.

210. 0:46:20

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You know, there are several things we've talked about, several things here. I told you I probably wouldn't use this. However, I didn't want to deny someone that could, like you and other people. We do a study committee. We learned a lot, but the c- minimum cost is $500,000. So every time we throw out a study committee-

211. 0:46:40

     Wow

212. 0:46:40

     ... we need to know what the cost is. But we learned a lot of valuable stuff through... I was on Blue Ribbon Insurance Committee this year. We traveled the state. We learned a lot. You know, it gives you the opportunity to use this or not use it.

213. 0:46:53

     Right.

214. 0:46:53

     Basically, it's not forcing anybody to use it. I'm like Chairman Hawkins. I remember I have still silver coins and gold, and I've bought gold. Probably won't buy any for a while. It's too high. I bought it when it was low. However, you know, I, I understand we used to take gold, and that's how our currency worked at Fort Knox, and we make sure we back things. I'm a little concerned with the secretary of state, 'cause I've dealt with about 147 issues with licensees, and it's taken a lot of my time.

215. 0:47:23

     So hopefully, to the young lady here, you can tell me that's proven better than my experience with secretary of state. It seems like you get an email, you don't get an answer. People are very slow at doing anything, and that's why we've taken some of the responsibility away from secretary of state's office. So I'd like to hear that point, because I'm the expert on basically trying to take care of things y'all's office should've done, and I've met two or three people that's really helped me here. So with it, like I said, I probably will not be using this, but I do understand the principle and just wanted to be on record for saying that.

216. 0:48:01

     Thank you.

217. 0:48:02

     Thank you.

218. 0:48:02

     You wanna, you wanna comment on-

219. 0:48:04

     Can, can we have one more comment, and then you can comment, ma'am?

220. 0:48:07

     Okay. Okay.

221. 0:48:09

     Make a motion.

222. 0:48:10

     All right. We have a motion do-

223. 0:48:14

     No.

224. 0:48:14

     Okay, now.

225. 0:48:15

     Make a motion do pass. You're at the end of the wire, so we might as well try passing this.

226. 0:48:20

     Thank you, sir.

227. 0:48:21

     If, if you don't get it, it'd be like tabling, you know? So I make a motion do pass.

228. 0:48:26

     We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. We have a motion and a second. Any discussion?

229. 0:48:36

     Do we go on to that or...

230. 0:48:37

     Yeah.

231. 0:48:37

     Okay, we need to add, um, on line tw- 126 the following, "Except for the Commissioner of Securities for a lawful investigation."

232. 0:48:50

     Make a motion on the amendment.

233. 0:48:52

     We have a motion on the amendment. Do we have a second? Second. All in favor say aye.

234. 0:48:56

     Aye.

235. 0:48:58

     Aye. All opposed. No. Okay, we can get a show of hands. All in favor say aye. Aye.

236. 0:49:05

     On the amendment.

237. 0:49:05

     On the amendment. On the amendment. On, on the amendment.

238. 0:49:08

     We're good with the amendment.

239. 0:49:09

     Okay. All right, so we, we have the amendment, okay? Now let me see a show of hands for all for the original bill.

240. 0:49:16

     Amended bill.

241. 0:49:17

     All, all in the amended bill, all for the affirmative. Let me see a show of hands.

242. 0:49:24

     Okay, all opposed. We tried. Thank you.

243. 0:49:29

     Come back. Thank you, sir.

244. 0:49:30

     Thank, hey, I wanna at this time thank Emory Dunahoo, who has been a, a loyal, um, worker bee, and I appreciate everything you've done for us, and, um, happy trails. Thank y'all.

245. 0:49:41

     All right. Well, we start again.

246. 0:49:45

     Oh, it didn't go.

247. 0:49:46

     It did not go, did not pass.

248. 0:49:47

     Right.

249. 0:49:47

     So, um, we will have to start back over again and-

250. 0:49:52

     When is that?

251. 0:49:52

     ... 12th department next year.

252. 0:49:53

     Oh, I'm sorry about that.

253. 0:49:55

     So it just, uh-

254. 0:49:57

     I thought that that was gonna go. I thought

255. 0:50:09

     it would.