House Public Safety and Homeland Security Committee, February 11, 2026

Transcript

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1. 0:19:13

   All right, ladies and gentlemen, we, uh, there we go. Now we're on. We, uh, Danny Mathis has announced that he is here now, so we may begin.

2. 0:19:26

   Appreciate his, uh, his concern for us. Um, and I'm gonna ask Chairman Victor Anderson if he would open us up in a word of prayer. But prior to, I know I'd asked, uh, Representative McCollum about this, but I'm gonna, since he's just getting here, I'm gonna help him out a little bit. Um, we were talking. We had done this on the House floor, um, several days ago, but, uh, wanted to make sure that, that we remember, um, as we, uh, do our opening prayer here, um, Officer Pradeep Tamang, the fallen officer from Gwinnett County, uh, and his family, and also Officer David Reid, who's still recovering.

3. 0:20:08

   So we need to, uh, you know, often when those things happen, we, we remember, uh, for a short time. But I wanna make sure that, that we remember that, uh, Officer Tamang's family is, is still, um, and not just his family at home, his other family, uh, his fellow officers in Gwinnett County. Um, but Officer Reid is also still recovering as well. So if you wouldn't mind, uh, as he prays, if you would just keep both of them and their families in your thoughts, please. Chairman Anderson.

4. 0:20:38

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If y'all bow with me. Dear kind and heavenly Father God, we come before you today, Lord, with the business of the state of Georgia at hand. And God, we ask you for a couple of things, God. If we don't ask, you won't grant in many cases, God. We ask you for wisdom, discernment, and understanding as we proceed with these proceedings, God. But we also come to you, God, with a heavy heart for those among us who are, are, uh, have fallen in the line of duty, and God, and those who are recovering. And we pray, God, that your comforting hand will reach down to their families and to, uh, to all those involved, God, their friends, their coworkers.

5. 0:21:13

   And, and pray, God, we pray that when all is said and done, your will be done out of this whole process. Dear Lord, be with us today, and we ask in your Jesus name, amen.

6. 0:21:26

   Thank you very much. All right, we are, uh, obviously pushed back. We got a lot of committee meetings to get to today, and, uh, I don't want Chairman Werkheiser to show up when it's time for his meeting and to, to scowl at me as he did the last time. So we're gonna try to get done. Um, we are gonna start with House Resolution 1243. Chairman Chuck Martin, he has a committee of his own to go chair when he gets done, so.

7. 0:21:55

   Chairman Martin, the floor will be yours.

8. 0:21:57

   You got some chairs in this room, Vance.

9. 0:21:59

   We, we do. They-

10. 0:22:00

    There's chairs.

11. 0:22:00

    They're much like the chairs, the new chairs on the House floor. They don't move either.

12. 0:22:03

    That, that, that chair's got some consistency about it, Mr. Chairman.

13. 0:22:06

    Yes, sir.

14. 0:22:06

    I, I don't... Am I on live there? Thank you. Um,

15. 0:22:14

    Mr. Chairman, thank you for, uh, allowing me to, to do this, and I'll, I'll try to be brief, uh, in, in the interest of time. House Resolution 1243 comes to you as a result of the work, um, Mr. Chairman, that you were part of, uh, on a study committee that was formed by House Resolution 429, uh, last year, um, as we went around the state, uh, in, in an effort to, um, secure information and prepare for the next generation 911. Uh, I also have here today, if there are questions, folks from GECA, uh, over here to my right, um, that, you know, they are very, they were very instrumental and important to us pulling the information together.

16. 0:22:55

    But in brief, Mr. Chairman, this, this resolution is a proposed constitutional amendment that authorizes the creati- creation of a dedicated non-lapsing Georgia 911 fund. It will allow the General Assembly to dedicate revenue from the, the fund by general law, and it strictly limits the use of where those dollars can be expended for the expansion, maintenance, and operation of 911 systems statewide, including the... This is important, including the transition to next generation 911.

17. 0:23:29

    The money can't be used for anything else. Um, if, if so, the appropriation would be void, and, and we would not be bound by it. This is funding in a lock box. Um, and I would tell just in brief, the reason for that, Mr. Chairman, is, is the 911... Well, let me back up and say first, this resolution does not impose, nor does it tend, do I think we tend to from the committee's deliberations, an increase in a 911 fee on Georgians. So this is not a- an increase on fees on Georgians.

18. 0:24:00

    What it instead would do is take the funds that we pay on our bills now, $1.50 a month, and that goes into a local fund today. This would come and be dedicated in a statewide fund rather than a local fund. And the reason this is required is w- we want to provide a ubiquitous 911, next generation 911 across the state. And we as a state can't transfer. Local jurisdictions can't transfer their money. If a, if one jurisdiction is getting more money than they need for 911, they can't transfer it to their neighbor or to a, a place across the state.

19. 0:24:35

    And what we saw in our hearing, Mr. Chairman, was, you know, when this was originally done, it was primarily landlines, and, and the phone stayed where the phone was. Today, these phones travel with us. Many of them are billed, and the 911 fee goes to a place other than where it resides most of its useful life. So what we're trying to do is collect this money in the state because it is important that 911 be available regardless of what state you're in. You never wanna- Hold your breath trying to get to the next county line before you have something happen.

20. 0:25:08

    I mean, I, I say that, it's, it's a bit, um, it's a bit of a ridiculous statement. Emergencies, uh, by definition are emergent, and so o- one doesn't plan them. But the, the point here is we are committed to, in Georgia, with our partners at, at the 911 center, at GICA, uh, all of the center operators, uh, GMA, AC- CG, at providing the highest level of next generation 911. And this is our first step, uh, to do it. It will be followed up by a working group of those same individuals I just mentioned to determine the way the funds will be distributed.

21. 0:25:46

    It will be something like the number of people each 911 center, uh, serves, as well as their call volume, as well as, uh, some dollars that are held in advance for grants in case there are one-off type situations where the formula doesn't quite fit. We're not gonna leave anybody without a runway. This wants to provide Georgians a- across the state with the highest possible level of, of next generation 911.

22. 0:26:14

    Happy to answer questions. I could go into much further detail, but you've got a long agenda, and it's, we're late in the, late in the day getting started.

23. 0:26:21

    Yes, sir. Thank you. Um, I don't see any questions from the committee. Um, what would be the will of the committee?

24. 0:26:32

    Make the motion to do pass.

25. 0:26:32

    Second.

26. 0:26:33

    All right. We have a motion do pass and a second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say aye.

27. 0:26:40

    Aye.

28. 0:26:41

    Oh, you turned your light on. Did you have a point for discussion?

29. 0:26:44

    Yeah.

30. 0:26:44

    You barely snuck in there.

31. 0:26:45

    I know.

32. 0:26:46

    All right.

33. 0:26:47

    Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Just a quick question. So you said enabling will be following this in the future?

34. 0:26:51

    Yes, ma'am, and, and we don't-

35. 0:26:54

    I'm sorry.

36. 0:26:54

    Go ahead.

37. 0:26:55

    There you go.

38. 0:26:55

    And I, I don't expect that enabling legi- legislation will come this session, to be perfectly honest. And, and the reason for that is this ha- this is a step that has to take place. Should we some way, somehow, I can't imagine this happening, but should we some way, somehow not be able to develop that enabling legislation, this fund would be created but would not have revenue-

39. 0:27:16

    Okay

40. 0:27:16

    ... going into it. So we do not do any damage. But the, the point, the point of not rushing the enabling legislation this year is to make sure that everyone involved across 159 counties, all the municipalities, and all the center operators have a full-throated voice in, in, you know, how that money is distributed. So I don't wanna represent to the lady that that legislation will. It might, but I don't wanna represent that it would. But I will tell you that passing this resolution, if we can pass it in the House and the Senate and we can ask our voters in November to do it, does no damage should we not get enabling legislation in the future.

41. 0:27:53

    Okay.

42. 0:27:53

    All right. Thank you very much. We have a motion, second. Seeing no further discussion, all those in favor say aye.

43. 0:28:00

    Aye.

44. 0:28:00

    Any opposed say no. All right, it carries.

45. 0:28:03

    Mr. Chairman, if, if I may, I know this is a risk when you, when you get a winner to, to leave, but I, I just wanna, again, thank the folks at GICA and the people that hosted us around the state, um, for doing this. I wanna thank the Speaker's Office. I wanna thank, uh, the minority leader, Carolyn Hug- Hugley, for signing onto this bill, as, as well as the minority member Kahlil Drenner. We have people from all across the state, rural, metro, Democrats, Republican. This is not a partisan issue. This is something that Georgia's gonna get behind, and, and GICA was a, a, a very big, uh, part of that and a leader. And I thank them and I thank all the 911 center operators around the state for what they do.

46. 0:28:38

    We're gonna try to ma- make it better. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

47. 0:28:40

    Yeah. Thank you very much. Very well said, and I echo those statements. Thank y'all very much for everything you've done, and, uh, we'll certainly be having more discussions in the future with y'all. We're gonna spend a lot more time together, y'all. All right, moving on. Uh, House Bill 967, Representative Jordan Ridley.

48. 0:28:57

    Okay.

49. 0:29:09

    All right. It's your pleasure, sir.

50. 0:29:10

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Today I have a pretty simple two-page bill. It's just creating a grant program through the Criminal Justice Coordinating Council, and they are here in the back. We are creating a grant program for law enforcement agencies to be able to request grants subject to appropriations on being able to put in ballistic glass in law enforcement vehicles. Again, it's subject to appropriation, so if the state doesn't have the money that year, there's no grants given out. If the state has extra money and they want to invest in it, the council can get the money and give out those grants.

51. 0:29:42

    So that's really the whole bill. It's only 31 lines.

52. 0:29:47

    Okay. Very good. Uh, any questions for the bill sponsor? Okay, we did have some folks, uh, signed up to speak on this. Um-

53. 0:30:02

    Sheriff Hinson

54. 0:30:03

    ... Sheriff Hinson from Paulding County, if you wanna just step over to the podium, we'll, uh, turn that mic on for you.

55. 0:30:12

    All right. Yes, sir. Well, uh, good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members. I appreciate this opportunity. Uh, I love to see, uh, my representative, Kimberly New, here. Uh, but, uh, thank you for this opportunity. Um, I'm not telling any one of these members anything you don't know, but public safety is paramount, not only in Paulding County, but in the state of Georgia and the United States of America. If we don't have public safety, you don't have one single thing that works in this country, and Colonel Hitchens knows that better than anybody, 'cause he did the job for a long time, and I appreciate your service, sir.

56. 0:30:42

    So I'm here to talk about, uh, this bill, and I don't know if there's any other law enforcement officers here, but, uh, I know Colonel Hitchens was. But, um, I wanna tell you a little quick story. Paulding County was founded in 1832, and up until 2024, we'd never lost a deputy in the line of duty. On August 17th, 2024, we lost Brandon Cunningham. He was responding to a domestic dispute. He did everything right What he didn't expect was an armed assailant in an elevated position that was ready for him when he got there. Brandon stepped out of his car and was taken down and killed right there in the street.

57. 0:31:17

    Now you're probably thinking, "Well, how would this bill have helped him?" Well, what would have helped him was having some type of cover. His partner would've had some type of cover because he got pinned down behind, uh, the Ford Explorer. A .223 coming out of an AR-15 will go through the glass of a Ford Explorer. It will go through the partition where the c- the prisoner sits. It will go through the seat, and it will go through the rear hatch onto the ground. Those rounds are hot, okay? They are moving fast.

58. 0:31:47

    I have seen this product demonstrated at our range. It is fantastic. You're gonna hear from a, a deputy from Texas who is here solely because of the glass that was in his car. It stopped green tip rounds. If you know what those are, they're bad news, okay? So I want you guys to know how vitally important it is to be able to, for us to access grant funding. And I know this is not about, uh, you know, if the appropriations are there, the, the grant is available, but if they're not, obviously that's, uh, that's okay as well. But we are 100% for any kind of grant funding that would allow us to, uh, utilize putting this ballistic glass in our patrol vehicles.

59. 0:32:23

    We've got, uh, I think we're probably about the 17th largest sheriff's office in the state of Georgia. Um, and is it feasible to equip all our cars? Probably not because of funding issues, but this would be an avenue for us to be able to put, uh, ballistic glass in some of these vehicles. Um, I'm not gonna sit here and spout off the science about the glass, but it is fantastic. I've seen it work. It is unbelievable. Um, if you want a demo, come out to our range. I'm sure the folks, uh, will be happy to, to set up a demo for you. But, uh, I appreciate your time. Um, if you guys have any questions, I've been in law enforcement for 23 years.

60. 0:32:56

    This is all I've ever done. Working at the Paulding County Sheriff's Office is the only job I've ever had. Um, I love it. It's my passion. It's my home. My kids are ninth generation Paulding Countians. It's where we're gonna be. Um, and my job is to keep our citizens safe and our deputies safe, um, and having access to grant funding like this would be paramount to keeping our men and women safe. So I entertain any questions if you have them. And I know there's other people that have to speak.

61. 0:33:20

    I do not see any questions, but thank you for your service.

62. 0:33:22

    Yes, sir.

63. 0:33:23

    I, uh, appreciate what you do, and, uh, you have a fine constituent out there in Paulding County, so-

64. 0:33:29

    Yes, sir. We do

65. 0:33:29

    ... happy to have you as vice chair of this committee, so thank you very much.

66. 0:33:32

    Yes, sir. Thank you guys so much. I appreciate it.

67. 0:33:34

    All right. Uh, Dr. Clifford Dorn, Operation Safe Shield.

68. 0:33:40

    Welcome, sir.

69. 0:33:42

    Yeah, thank you. Uh, good afternoon. I'm Dr. Clifford Dorn with Operation Safe Shield. We're actually a nonprofit in Texas, and we were established in 2021 to help our local law enforcement get ballistic glass protection throughout their cars. Texas has led the way in deciding to protect those who protect us. In 2021, the Texas state legislator actually mandated that all Department of Public Safety troopers had their vehicles equipped with ballistic glass in order to save their lives, and this was done in response to a number of officers across the state that had been killed while sitting in their vehicles.

70. 0:34:20

    The one that led it off was a, uh, a trooper named Chad Walker that stopped up to help a disabled vehicle on the side of the road. As he pulled up behind the vehicle, the guy stepped out with no, for no reason whatsoever and opened fire on the trooper and shot him through his windshield and killed him there on the spot. After that, Texas decided that they needed to do something, and the ballistic glass that came out a few years before that was the, the perfect thing for this. So with the state went through and under that mandate, they went ahead and appropriated $25 million the first year to say, "Yes, every trooper's car that comes out is going to be equipped." This past year, they did another $27 million, and this was the state saying that we want to protect those that are working for the state to protect the citizens.

71. 0:35:09

    So this is what we've done in Texas. Now, our organization did the same thing, but on a local level. So we were starting to work with, uh, local individuals such as yourself, uh, just citizens in the community, and we started raising funds for our own grant program that we provide through Operation Safe Shield. And in doing that, we have now protected over 150 cars in our local area. We were pretty much a pilot study for the state, and is what it did is that showed the state that the citizens really do want to protect their law enforcement.

72. 0:35:42

    You know, with all the negativity that's going on in the world today, the citizens out there still support law enforcement by and large. And so our job was to help, uh, establish grants and to help provide funding through private donations. This past year, Texas actually passed another legislation similar to what you have here, and it was a grant program, and it was designed just like what you're looking at in Georgia, and that's why I'm speaking today. You're doing exactly the same thing that we did in Texas. So this last year, we passed the, the bill, and it went through, and it awarded, uh, local agencies the right to apply for a grant.

73. 0:36:21

    Now, because it was a new thing, they didn't really understand how much money we needed, and so they appropriated $5 million to get it started. The grant opened up on Oct- in October 15th and closed November 20th this past year. We had $60 million in applications. So this next year when the, when we meet again, they're gonna go back in and now say, "Okay, $5 million didn't cut it. We're gonna go with a, a lot more money hopefully." But that's what we're trying to do. Uh, when we look at it from what we're doing with Operation Safe Shield, I can tell you this: I went and saw the glass, we saw the demonstrations, and it works.

74. 0:36:57

    We have been going around the state, and in fact, we came here to Georgia yesterday to help with a live fire demonstration out there at Fulton County, and so we show people exactly how effective the glass is. The real... ... point about how effective this glass is, is actually sitting here in this room. The first million dollars that I raised for ballistic glass, we used it to fund the glass in all of our, our seven local counties, their sheriff's departments, the police departments, constables. I've done 150 cars now in that region, and that first million dollars has already paid off.

75. 0:37:31

    At this point, I'd like to go ahead and introduce, uh, Keith Bitz from the Leon County Deputy's, um, sheriff's deputy. He was saved by ballistic glass that we installed last year. So he's gonna be our testament. Now, also when we look at that, we have also saved four other officers in one year. So the money that we've spent on ballistic glass in Texas has already made it worthwhile. You know, just us saving that one officer, to me, was worthwhile. But now we had four others that have joined him in that, that lifesaving, and they would not be here today if it wasn't for ballistic glass.

76. 0:38:06

    And so, uh, we're gonna work and do what we can to promote this across the United States, and that's why I was glad to come here to Georgia today to just let you know what we're doing in Texas, and we're support behind you 100%. If we can do anything to help you promote this, we're here for you. We're all in this together. So thank you. If you have any questions, I'll be glad to answer them now.

77. 0:38:27

    All right. Thank you. We do have a, uh, a couple of lights here blinking, so we'll, uh, we'll go to those, but, um, thank you for what you're doing, and thank you for doing these demonstrations. I'm sorry that we couldn't make it out there yesterday.

78. 0:38:40

    Yeah.

79. 0:38:40

    The schedule, as you've seen around here-

80. 0:38:42

    Yeah

81. 0:38:42

    ... uh, it gets somewhat, um, it, it remains somewhat fluid around this place sometimes. And, uh, if we ever figure out how to clone ourselves, it would be- ... incredibly helpful, because I don't know how many places we all need to be at the same time. Um, but I have seen a demonstration of it, uh, down at GIPSTIC, and, uh, it's incredible. It, it is absolutely incredible. So we're gonna get to a couple of these questions and, uh, then we'll get on to, uh, Deputy Bitz, 'cause we wanna hear from him as well. So number four, Representative Neal.

82. 0:39:13

    Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you to the-

83. 0:39:15

    Yeah

84. 0:39:16

    ... um, the speaker here today. So quick question. When it comes to how you decide on, you know, giving, giving your grants out, is anybody ever denied?

85. 0:39:24

    Oh, yes. I mean, you have to understand, we had $5 million in Texas, and we had $60 million in requests. So a lot of departments did not get that. I was not in charge of picking, thank goodness. So, uh, that was up to the state legislature and the grant office to decide. Now, going forward, it's hoped that money will be more readily available. And, uh, I'm not sure exactly what guidelines, but I'm guessing that they're looking at those that are at most risk. The ones that we've seen most of our incidents have been on our major highways, so we have the communities that are directly on the interstates.

86. 0:40:00

    You know, we say, "Oh, little Leon County, you, you don't have much trouble there." Said, "No, but you have a, a Interstate 45 that goes right through that which connects, you know, Houston and Dallas." And so we have these big interstates where there is a lot of criminal traffic that comes through.

87. 0:40:14

    Now, in that... So you said the state legislature when you, you referenced the denials. In their legislation, did they outline what could be a denial?

88. 0:40:24

    No, they did not. Now, so some of it, because it's a grant program, okay, uh, that's through the eGrant system, the federal government system, a lot of those were denied because they did something wrong on the grant. You know, they only have 30 days to get the grant in, so which is a very, very short window. And, uh, they have to do several things. You know, the counties have to go through the commissioner's court, and they have to get a let- a letter that says, "Yes, you can actually apply for that." So if they couldn't get that done in the 30 days, then they can't apply for the grant.

89. 0:40:54

    So-

90. 0:40:54

    So there are some things like that that-

91. 0:40:56

    Now, what about rating levels? So when it comes to when they do apply for you guys through your grant program, is there a difference in, like, you know... So the glass that'll stop a .223 round is different from what'll stop a regular bullet.

92. 0:41:11

    Yes.

93. 0:41:12

    So do, are there, like, in-

94. 0:41:14

    It, it, yes, it is in a grant. The grant is actually... A- and the ballistic glass is rated NIJ Level IIIA, which it means it passes the NIJ testing for all handgun rounds up to, I think it's a .44 Mag. We test it with a .357 Sig, and it has to do, it has to be able to stop five rounds within a very specified area. Now, yesterday we went out there, and you have to understand, because of the angle of this glass, the way it sits in a windshield, that angle changes the amount of power that that bullet applies into the glass.

95. 0:41:45

    Yesterday, that car was shot with 30 rounds of rifle rounds. Any weighing from a three, uh, um, excuse me, a, a .223, a .556, a 7.62, a .308, a shotgun slug. It will stop all of those rounds because of the angle of the windshield, but it won't continuously stop them. If you keep peppering it 30 or 40 times, it's gonna fail. But it gives them time to respond.

96. 0:42:08

    So it-

97. 0:42:08

    So it is actually better than what it's rated for.

98. 0:42:10

    So I just wanna make sure that, so when it, when, the way you guys are doing it is there's this one, one type of rating that you're gonna... When you apply for the grant-

99. 0:42:18

    Correct

100. 0:42:18

     ... you're all gonna get the same glass, the same rating.

101. 0:42:21

     Exactly.

102. 0:42:21

     Gotcha.

103. 0:42:22

     Now, if they want higher levels, then they can pay extra. But the nice thing about the IIIA glass that we currently have, the windows roll up and down. Uh, everything is perfect on the windshield. All the radar works. Everything works through it. It's not like it's a, a, a IV, Level IV glass that would be like a Humvee has that's gonna stop a .50, .50 cal, okay? But when you do that, you're adding a lot of weight. We're only adding 200 pounds weight to this entire car. So they always said, "Oh, ballistic glass will make the handling of this car be horrible." Well, not anymore, because the weight is down to 200 pounds.

104. 0:42:55

     That includes the windshield, both front side windows, and the front door panels. So that's just like in the days when you had a- another officer riding in the car with you.

105. 0:43:03

     Okay.

106. 0:43:04

     Now, when, when... One last thing I wanted to say about the, the pricing, when you look at it, we're looking at about 10, less than $10,000 a vehicle, okay? Those vehicles are gonna last a department on an average of five to seven years. So if you have a vehicle that lasts five years, that $10,000, that means it's gonna cost you about $160 a month to protect that officer's life. If you keep that car seven to 10 years, that price will be down about $100 to $120 a month. That's over the lifespan of ve- of the vehicle if you depreciate it out.

107. 0:43:36

     So when you look at those kind of numbers, to me, that's worth it to save s- one person's life. Thank you.

108. 0:43:44

     All right, thank you. Uh, Representative Mathis.

109. 0:43:48

     Yeah, thank you. You answered one question. You said about $10,000-

110. 0:43:51

     Yes, sir

111. 0:43:51

     ... per vehicle, and that's all the windows, the windshield.

112. 0:43:54

     That's the windshield, both front windows, and the side panels. That's not the rear window, and that's not the back window. They can do that, but they, that costs extra. We look at the, the maximum protection for s- what's feasible in, in, in a budgeting system. You know, we could go through and do the whole car and spend another 5 or $10,000, but most of the, the, uh, problems are gonna be through the windshield and the driver's side window. And also, there's a panel in the door because that door doesn't stop anything. That's only Hollywood where a door can be opened to stop a bullet, okay?

113. 0:44:27

     That door, uh, th- those rounds will go right through that door. But this one has a Kevlar panel, so when that officer steps out of his car and opens that door, that door becomes a complete shield so that he can now interact with a person and still be protected.

114. 0:44:41

     Okay. Follow-up, please?

115. 0:44:44

     Yes.

116. 0:44:44

     Just to clarify, you said there's something in the front door when-

117. 0:44:47

     Yes, sir

118. 0:44:47

     ... also, and you called it a what?

119. 0:44:48

     It's a, it's like a Kevlar panel.

120. 0:44:50

     Uh-huh.

121. 0:44:51

     So it's a, just like their bulletproof vests are, they're a bullet-

122. 0:44:53

     I got you

123. 0:44:53

     ... resistant vest.

124. 0:44:54

     Okay.

125. 0:44:54

     Okay, so it is a panel that does stop the handgun rounds. Now, the nice thing about the side glass is they can actually return fire out of that side window. So if somebody's shooting at him, the bullets can't come in, but he can put his, his gun right up to the window and shoot right out, and there's no blowback in the officer's face. So they can respond to a situation by shooting out of the vehicle through the side glass.

126. 0:45:16

     Yes, sir. Did you, do y'all install them? Do you have a team-

127. 0:45:19

     No, we, we-

128. 0:45:20

     ... or who does that?

129. 0:45:20

     ... we are a, a nonprofit.

130. 0:45:22

     Yes, sir.

131. 0:45:23

     Okay? We are here strictly to talk to you, to educate people.

132. 0:45:25

     Mm-hmm.

133. 0:45:26

     The company that we work with is, uh, Dana Safety Supply.

134. 0:45:29

     Okay.

135. 0:45:29

     They have a contract, and they are the people that are responsible for getting that price down to the point that it can be affordable.

136. 0:45:36

     Yes, sir.

137. 0:45:36

     If you'd have went back 15 years, it'd cost you 20 or $30,000. But they got with the manufacturers and said, "Hey, we need to do 6,000 cars in Texas. If we buy your stock, what will you get us the price down to?"

138. 0:45:49

     Yes, sir.

139. 0:45:49

     And so that is what has been a game changer for us at least.

140. 0:45:52

     Well, I appreciate you working on that because-

141. 0:45:54

     You're quite welcome

142. 0:45:54

     ... this is very valuable, and I thank you for it, and welcome to Georgia from Texas.

143. 0:45:58

     Oh, glad to be here.

144. 0:45:58

     Yes, sir. Thank you.

145. 0:46:00

     All right, thank you. That's all the questions.

146. 0:46:02

     Thank you.

147. 0:46:02

     Thank you, sir. Um, Deputy Bits.

148. 0:46:05

     Yes.

149. 0:46:05

     You'll come up please, sir. Thank you for being here.

150. 0:46:07

     Oh, yes, sir.

151. 0:46:08

     And, and thankful you were able to be here.

152. 0:46:10

     That's correct. Uh, my name is Keith Bits. I've been a law enforcement officer for 31 years. On May 31st, 2025, at 1:45 in the morning, I survived an ambush. The defendant in this case called a fake 911 call. I had no idea what I was getting into. When I arrived, I got out of my vehicle, and I started approaching him on the porch when I saw him in a prone position with a rifle, an AR-15 style rifle.

153. 0:46:41

     I immediately jump back in my car. I tell the dispatcher, "I've got a guy with a rifle." I was basically gonna back out of the situation and call him and say, "Hey, I see you got a rifle there. What's your intentions?" But I did not have that choice. As I'm backing out, I took one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight rounds of AR-15 223 rifle to my windshield.

154. 0:47:13

     The guy that was shooting at me was prior military suffering from PTSD. He was a Marine, and his shots would've killed me. Each bullet was meant to kill me, but I'm alive today because I had ballistic glass. Not only am I alive, if my deputy, who's a brand-new officer, arrived before me, he's only 30 years old with wife and two kids, he would've been killed. He did not have ballistic glass.

155. 0:47:45

     So the good Lord got me there first. I've been married 27 years. My beautiful wife, four children, 11 grandchildren, would've buried me that week if I did not have ballistic glass. And I give a lot of credit to Dr. Dorn. After Chad Walker was killed through his windshield, he started that program. If he did not start that program, Operation Safe Shield, I would've been killed May 31st, 2025, at 1:45 in the morning.

156. 0:48:17

     Any questions?

157. 0:48:20

     I don't see any questions, but again, um, thank you for being here, and, uh, we're very, very thankful that you, uh, are able to be here.

158. 0:48:28

     Mm-hmm.

159. 0:48:29

     Um, I know we got one more speaker, but, uh, you know, you mentioned the other officer that was with you. Um, and they mentioned Chairman Hitchens, but we've got, uh, Chairman Lumsden, who spent a career with the state patrol.

160. 0:48:43

     Mm-hmm.

161. 0:48:44

     Uh, I spent, uh, a number of years in law enforcement myself. Representative Neal spent a number of years in law enforcement, and, uh, Chairman Sainz has spent a few years in law enforcement as well. And, and all of us, uh, or at least most of us do, I do, have family still. I got two nephews in law enforcement, one with the GBI and one with the sheriff's office, and so, um, it's incredibly important, uh, personally to me and for all the other officers we have out there. So, uh, I really appreciate your testimony. It, it, uh, it makes it abundantly clear why we need to do this.

162. 0:49:16

     Yes, sir.

163. 0:49:16

     So thank you for being here.

164. 0:49:17

     Thank y'all.

165. 0:49:19

     Uh, last we have David Cavender, Dana Safety Supply

166. 0:49:25

     Good afternoon, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Thank you for having us today. I'm really just here to, uh, represent Dana Safety Supply and field any, uh, questions you have at the end. But while I do work for Dana Safety Supply now, prior to coming here, I spent 15 and a half years with the Cobb County Police Department, with the majority of that on our SWAT team, and that's when I first saw this glass demonstrated at our range in, uh, 2024. So since then, we've been a huge advocate of it and trying to get it here. I was out with, uh, Sheriff Henson, uh, the night Deputy Cunningham got killed in Paulding County. And then if you just think back to August of last year, Officer Rose at the CDC.

167. 0:49:59

     If you haven't seen those, uh, pictures of his Tahoe, uh, you can, you can get those pictures and you can see this windshield would have, uh, at least changed the outcome of the initial, uh, initial attack on his car and allowed him to react and, uh, back out of that. Um, we talk about a lot about it protecting the officer, but one other thing it does too is it acts as a de-escalation, because in Deputy Bits, uh, incident, he would've most likely been killed, and the officers responding, or the deputies responding to him would've likely also been hurt or killed, and the shooter, you know, ultimately gave up, which would've likely been a much different outcome.

168. 0:50:32

     So instead of having multiple lives lost that night, no one was, uh, was even injured. Um, so that's... I really just wanna come and speak on that and say thank you for hearing it.

169. 0:50:46

     All right. Thank you. Sorry, I hit the wrong button there for a minute.

170. 0:50:49

     Oh, you're good, sir.

171. 0:50:50

     Technology, man.

172. 0:50:51

     It gets you every time.

173. 0:50:52

     It's tough sometimes. Um, all right, I don't see any questions. Thank you for being here.

174. 0:50:55

     It's fine. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

175. 0:50:55

     Thank you for your work on this. All right. Uh, do we have any other questions for the presenter of the bill? If not, I will entertain... Okay, number four, Representative Neal.

176. 0:51:07

     Sorry. It's coming. Um, so a few questions. Um, first of all, um, is there a way, and I'm not sure if we can do that now or if it's a CJCC question, but, um, like is there a way to determine departments with bigger budgets, do they get the same grant allocation or prioritizing for, like, for instance, in rural Georgia, sometimes you got more miles than officers, and it takes longer for them to get help if something were to happen or, um, departments that have smaller budgets, but if they, like, they lose out to some, uh, entity, entity that has a bigger budget.

177. 0:51:40

     Like, do we, uh, cor- can we correct for that here?

178. 0:51:43

     So in the bill, in, uh, at lines 21 through 27, we talk about giving, um, CJJC the ability, or CJCC the ability to set the grant criteria. So they'll be the ones setting that criteria on what it would take to get that. So for, it's for them to decide on, you know, how they would wanna, uh, issue those grants.

179. 0:52:03

     Okay.

180. 0:52:08

     Okay. I don't see any other questions. I'll entertain a motion if someone would like to make one.

181. 0:52:15

     Move to pass.

182. 0:52:15

     Second.

183. 0:52:15

     All right, we have a motion to pass and a second. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor say aye.

184. 0:52:21

     Aye.

185. 0:52:21

     Any opposed say no. All right, it passes.

186. 0:52:25

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

187. 0:52:25

     Thank you very much.

188. 0:52:32

     All right, next we're gonna have House Bill 1128, uh, Governor's floor leader Seabaugh.

189. 0:52:45

     Rocking and rolling, man. Rocking and rolling.

190. 0:52:58

     Florida, Mr. Seabaugh, you've had a tough day. We're gonna be kind to you though. I'm gonna make sure that we're-

191. 0:53:03

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman

192. 0:53:03

     ... we're kind to you.

193. 0:53:04

     I noticed I just cle- cleared the room as, uh, as I came up here too, so.

194. 0:53:08

     Well, if, if, if most of them knew what you were here to talk about, I'm sure they would've stayed. It's, uh, it's also an incredibly important, uh, topic, at least to me and, and, and most of us up here. So floor is yours, sir.

195. 0:53:18

     It is. Thank you. Uh, before I get started, I wanna welcome Jackson Cleet. He's, uh, uh, he was an intern with Chairman Jaspers for a, uh, for his senior year at the University of Georgia, and now he's moved into the governor's office, so good job, Chairman Jaspers, on, uh-

196. 0:53:36

     Great

197. 0:53:36

     ... mentoring this young man. Um, but, uh, I want to present House Bill 1128. I'm working off LC481688 EC, and it's on behalf of Governor Kemp. 1128 is a narrow targeted reform designed to correct a procedural gap in Georgia law that particularly, um, affects injured peace officers and other public servants who suffer catastrophic injuries in the line of duty.

198. 0:54:07

     This bill does three specific things, and only three things. First, it amends provisions in Title 34 and Title 35 to ensure that when an employee, particularly a peace officer, is incapacitated due to a serious injury, required notices regarding workers' compensation or indemnification benefits must be sent not only to the employee but also to their legal guardian. Under current law, uh, notice is directed solely to the injured employee, and if that offer- officer has suffered a traumatic brain injury or, or other disabling condition and cannot manage their own affairs, the statute does not clearly require notice to the guardian responsible for handling legal and financial matters.

199. 0:54:53

     House Bill 1128 closes that gap. Second, the bill clarifies that employing law enforcement agencies share responsibility in ensuring proper notification of eligibility for indemnification benefits. This creates accountability and prevents individuals from falling through the cracks due to administrative oversight. And third, House Bill 1128 establishes a limited one-time application window for officers who sustained organic brain injuries in the line of duty prior to July 1st, 2024, and whose incapacity prevented them from applying for benefits.

200. 0:55:31

     This is not an expansion of eligibility. It does not create new categories of benefits. It simply provides a fair opportunity for those who were medically unable to file to, to access benefits that already exist in statute. This is an administrative due process correction. From a policy standpoint, this legislation reinforces a basic principle. When the state promises benefits to public servants injured in the line of duty, we must ensure they are actually informed of those rights, especially when they are physically or cognitively unable to advocate for themselves.

201. 0:56:16

     As someone who's spent my career in emergency services, I can tell you that traumatic injuries, particularly brain injuries, can leave families navigating complex systems at the worst possible moment. This bill will provide clarity, fairness, and procedural certainty for those families. All affected agencies have reviewed the language, and the changes are technical and limited in scope. I'll say this, that House Bill 1120 strengthens notice requirements. It improves accountability and ensures that incapacitated officers are not unintentionally denied access to benefits because of procedural silence in the code.

202. 0:56:54

     For those reasons, I respectfully ask for your favorable consideration and a due pass. I'm happy to answer any questions.

203. 0:57:03

     Okay. Uh, Chairman Jaspers.

204. 0:57:06

     Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman McDonald, will you move your head? Thank you.

205. 0:57:16

     Sorry.

206. 0:57:17

     I couldn't think of a nicer way to say it.

207. 0:57:23

     Oh, I thought maybe that was the whole question. Is that, is that the entire question?

208. 0:57:26

     No, no.

209. 0:57:26

     Oh, okay.

210. 0:57:26

     No, I've got tickled. But no, thank you for recognizing the Floor Leader Jackson. Great young man. Um, I'm sure he's had his hand in this. This is a perfect bill, and I just wanted to recognize how I've just enjoyed watching him grow throughout his career. But just my curiosity is, you know, how many people are in this, I guess, a better way, gap, that we need to help? But ...

211. 0:57:52

     Sir, we know of one individual at this, this time, uh, as w- if this, as we pass this legislation, it will open the application process and he'll be able to apply for these benefits.

212. 0:58:03

     Okay.

213. 0:58:03

     But we'll also, uh, make notice to local law enforcement agencies that this application will be open again, so if they have, uh, officers that have been injured, uh, have brain injuries, that, uh, they can also apply. It's a 30-day period.

214. 0:58:20

     Super. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

215. 0:58:24

     All right. I don't see any other questions from the committee. Um, but is this, uh, sort of a, a continuation or a, a little bit of an expansion or addressing some of the things? I know we had a bill, um, last year that, uh, uh, Senate Judiciary Chairman Strickland and I had worked on a good bit, the Posey-Adley Act. Uh, the Henry County deputy, uh, from where I used to work down there, um, had an issue that kind of brought this to the forefront, and this is sort of, kind of expanding on that a little bit, I would, I would think.

216. 0:58:58

     Is that correct?

217. 0:58:59

     Yeah, so there was a, a bill passed last year. W- and, and what this adds to it is notification of the guardian.

218. 0:59:07

     Okay.

219. 0:59:07

     So it requires noti- notification of the guardian. It also requires the, uh, agency to notify the guardian of the benefit.

220. 0:59:15

     Okay. Perfect. All right, Chairman McDonald.

221. 0:59:18

     I just, at the proper time, Mr. Chairman, I'll make a motion do pass.

222. 0:59:22

     It looks like now would be the proper time, so ...

223. 0:59:24

     I'd like to make a motion of House Bill 1128, um, pass in the affirmative.

224. 0:59:30

     Second.

225. 0:59:31

     All right, we have a motion and a second. Any further discussion from the committee? Seeing none, all in favor say aye.

226. 0:59:38

     Aye.

227. 0:59:38

     Any opposed, say no. All right. Carries unanimously. Thank you very much.

228. 0:59:42

     Thank you, Chairman. And I want to thank all my law enforcement brothers here and sisters. Thank you for your service.

229. 0:59:47

     Thank you for yours.

230. 0:59:48

     I really appreciate it.

231. 0:59:48

     Thank you. All right. And finally, we have House Bill 1161, Representative Lim and friend.

232. 1:00:10

     All right.

233. 1:00:10

     What's up?

234. 1:00:11

     And whenever you're ready, I, there's ... I don't know if both those mics are on. There's only one button up here for table mics, so we'll just, we'll see what happens.

235. 1:00:19

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair, and the committee. I am here presenting House Bill 1161. We're working off the original, which is LC 394819. Uh, this bipartisan bill is one that was brought to me by my local police department, uh, Gwinnett County Police Department here. I, I want to thank you all and for, uh, your continued recognition of, uh, what happened to Officer, uh, Tamang and Officer Reid. But here I have, uh, with me, um, Sergeant Etheridge, who is with GCPD, and he, and they are asking me to champion this, and this is also supported by both the Chiefs and the Sheriffs Association.

236. 1:00:54

     So what this bill does is to clarify explicitly then when a law enforcement officer is attempting to pull over a me- a moving vehicle to make a traffic stop, that the vehicle should move over to the right-hand curb of the road, or parallel to, provided that it is safe to do so. I think, especially for the members of this committee, that's, that's pretty obvious to most of us, so I was quite surprised when GCPD informed me that it was not- codified along with all of my co-sponsors. And then, uh, I am a lawyer so I looked quickly at it, and while it is codified, as you'll see in subsection A of this code, uh, section, that when there is an emergency vehicle or law enforcement vehicle attempting to pass, that you are supposed to move to the right, that that only applies specifically to passing and not a stop.

237. 1:01:45

     And courts in Georgia have interpreted it that way. Uh, in several cases, in particular Jackson v. State and Burrell v. State, both are opinions of our state court of appeals. I will read briefly from Jackson. "We note that under the plain language of the statute, a person violates OCGA Section 40-6-74 when he fails to yield the right of way in order to permit an emergency vehicle to pass. To violate the statute, an individual must obstruct the roadway, thereby preventing an emergency vehicle from proceeding upon its route in proceed of a flu- pursuit of a fleeing suspect." The officer's stated purpose in that case was to stop, and that's why in that particular case, uh, the, the court, um, overturned the, the, the lower court's opinion, uh, charging them with that violation.

238. 1:02:34

     Those are just two of the most prominent cases, but as I've heard since then, and, and to which, uh, Sergeant Etheridge will testify, many law enforcement, uh, officers in this state will attest that many people will, w- without attempting to flee, they will stop in the middle of the road. I'd, I don't know if, uh, Butch Ayers is here. He was just telling me yesterday, people will stop in the middle of 85, um, and others. Um, and out of measured caution and their desire to follow the existing state of our law, many of these officers are not in fact invoking this code section even when this kind of behavior results in injury, and they're refraining from otherwise making a legal argument that these practices are not reasonably safe, even though again, that's obvious to us, because unlike with passing emergency vehicles, this is not explicitly codified.

239. 1:03:25

     And for the sake of uniformity with subsection A, and to create that kind of clarity and, and just to send the signal, I think it's important to ensure that our existing provisions with respect to traffic stops mirror those that already exist for passing emergency vehicles, which is, especially if you're listening, move over to the right when it's safe to do so. Um, and unless the chairman objects, I would like t- uh, to turn it over to Sergeant Etheridge.

240. 1:03:49

     Yeah, please do.

241. 1:03:50

     Good afternoon. I'm Sergeant Etheridge with Gwinnett County Police Department. So it was brought to my attention by our solicitor's office that it is not illegal for anybody just to stop in the number one, the left lane of 85 when they're being pulled over, and couldn't believe it. We've always issued 40-6-74, which is failure to yield to emergency vehicle. Um, we went back and read the case law, and like it plainly says they have to move to the right. Well, they pointed out case law to us, Jackson v. State as well as Burrell v. State, and in both of these cases, um, the appeals court decided that it didn't count.

242. 1:04:26

     It only applied to vehicles responding to calls, and when we're intending to stop a vehicle, the code section doesn't apply to that. So we started looking in, and I started reaching out to other departments, and everybody had the same assumption, that it was all covered underneath the code section. So we started looking into different a- avenues that we could go, different sections that we could issue citations for or address just to make sure the public's aware that you've got to pull over to the right. You can't stop in the left lane on 85, which is, believe it or not, it's a common occurrence.

243. 1:04:58

     So there is no other code section in Georgia's code that dictates how drivers are supposed to pull over if they're stopped by a police officer.

244. 1:05:09

     Okay. Uh, Representative Neal has a question.

245. 1:05:13

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you for the bill. I do support the bill overall. I just have a question if you all have contemplated or not. And so I know at one point most people know to move over to the right, but a- as society has changed, people have found that when they do try to wait, when they do try to take their time and move over to the right, and if it takes a little too long, then they're viewed as fleeing, and the en- engagement turns more negative and em- abrasive than it has to be when they are trying to obey the law or the, the law that is unwritten.

246. 1:05:45

     Uh, so have you contemplated the fact that people have stopped or doing it that way because they don't want to get the additional charge of fleeing when they're trying to do the right thing? If it takes too long, then by the time they do stop, they're snatched out of the car, there's a fight. Have you contemplated that?

247. 1:06:01

     Okay. So according both of these code sections or the case laws, Jackson v. State and Burrell, both of them said that the correct charge that should have been charged was fleeing. Well, there's a difference between fleeing and what we're going for. Um, I'm looking for getting it corrected in the law where s- people have to pull over to the right and cannot just lock up their brakes in the middle of the roadway and stop. Um, so in a case where somebody's not, is failing to yield to an emergency vehicle and keeps going down the road, there's a difference between yielding and fleeing.

248. 1:06:33

     And it can't be, it can't be bunched up together. There has to be separated.

249. 1:06:39

     And, and I will add to that. First, I know you have a great bill on traffic stops as well.

250. 1:06:42

     Yeah.

251. 1:06:43

     But with respect to the question, so in, in my study of it and, and speaking not just to Gwinnett, but others, the vast majority of these cases, including the two that we cite with the Court of Appeals, would not be that. I don't want to say that there are absolutely no cases.

252. 1:06:58

     Mm-hmm.

253. 1:06:58

     But these are clearly people that are not, neither attempting to flee-

254. 1:07:02

     Mm-hmm

255. 1:07:02

     ... nor afraid

256. 1:07:05

     Yeah

257. 1:07:05

     ... of, of stopping. They will literally just stop in the middle of, of the road. So that, that's a really good question, and the response would be, in the vast majority, if not all cases, that's not what we're, that's not what's being reported to me is happening.

258. 1:07:18

     Gotcha. Okay.

259. 1:07:22

     Okay. Uh, any other questions from the committee? All right, I think 28 came on first. Uh, Representative McCollum. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. This is th- th- this is a interesting bill, and I've, we, we passed some legislation, I think it was last year. Um, obviously, uh, I got a question, officer. Um, w- would you say that, that if you're on 85 and you're, you got your blue lights on and siren, which is the state's, potentially the, the person in the vehicle could not h- hear your siren?

260. 1:08:00

     I'm just asking a question. Do you think y- y- you could outrun the siren? So there has been cases where people- Emergency, uh, what would you call it? We'll go with siren. All right. Siren. So, yes, you can outrun a siren. Um, and that's not, that's not at all what we're trying to go into, um, 'cause there's, there's a difference. Fleeing, s- people accelerating, refusing to stop. I'm going more for trying to make sure that people know what they're supposed to do when blue lights get behind them.

261. 1:08:33

     Um, we're having this on Stone Mountain Highway, which is a major road, 316. Um, when they see blue lights behind them, they are slamming their brakes on and stopping right in the number-one lane. Uh, just follow up, Mr. Chairman. So, so you bring up a good point, and, and this is where I'm going with this. So they see blue lights behind them. You have your siren on, and it's, you, you potentially could outrun it. This is one of the things that I've seen, I see all the time, and, and I'm not picking on y'all or...

262. 1:09:04

     I, I'm just saying, period, is the officers now have these solid blue lights. I mean, the, they look like a Christmas tree. And since we have new LEDs, uh, I drive in every morning from, from essentially Gwinnett County to the Capitol, and what happens is, is these people, when they see those lights on solid like that, they just freeze up and stop. So th- this, this, I, I know what you're trying to do here, but that's one of my concerns is, is officers...

263. 1:09:36

     I see Gwinnett, Gwinnett driving with them on all the time, too. So to me, it seems like it's super confusing because when they see blue lights, that's the only lights they have. I- it's, it, it's, it's, it's making it even worse, I feel like. I- I'm just curious about what your ideas on that are, running solid blue lights down 85 and people just stopping because they think they're behind them. So I have never had anybody, and nor have I heard any stories of anybody just locking their brakes up with a solid...

264. 1:10:11

     They're called cruise lights. Mm-hmm. I, I have never seen or heard of that happening. Um, when a traffic stop's ini- initiated, our cars are very well lit, whereas most f- agencies are as well. So all the lights are flashing really fast. Do you think the public, uh, knows the difference between a flashing blue light and a blue, just a solid blue light? I do, 'cause we don't have people pull over for that. I have never had anybody pull over for that. And, and if I may add to, to, to answer that question, I, I think that's a, that's a great question, and I appreciate that you're trying to experience it from what humans are experiencing.

265. 1:10:51

     'Cause I, I wanna recognize that there's that confusion there. Part of what we are attempting to do with this bill is to send a clear message of what the best practices are bec- pr- precisely because there is so much confusion. And you're never gonna be able to fully account for human behavior. But with all the, the great stuff that I think we've done around the, our Move Over law, our laws around, uh, school buses, there is still that lack of confusion. And we feel that creating this harmony with existing code provision, and also harmonizing with what most law enforcement officers already believe is the case, would at least partially solve the, the very real confusion that you're recognizing.

266. 1:11:35

     Okay, thank you. I, I just wanted to ask that. I mean, I, I r- I literally, uh, th- I mean, I, and I guess I'm, I was asking you that question 'cause, uh, you know, I see them all the time driving down 85 with lights on, solid on, except for troopers. They never do it. And it's, it, to me, I've seen people just come to a complete stop on 85 on s- six or eight lanes of road, uh, all the time, and I- I'm still just confused on why we're doing that on, uh, expressways. I don't have an answer for that. It's not you.

267. 1:12:06

     I'm just saying, period. Yeah. I don't have an answer for you. However, um, if the driver believes that they're being pulled over, they should be pulling to the right. And that is what we're trying to do, is make everybody understand that please don't stop in the left lane. Mm-hmm. Because it puts you at risk, it puts the officer at risk, and everybody behind us at risk. Okay. So if everybody- All right ... across the board realizes we gotta get out of the road, it'd be safer for everyone. Thank you very much. We got a couple more, or one more question to get to. And, and Representative McCollum, uh, I know what you're talking about, and I believe we've had some legislation related to that, um, in the past.

268. 1:12:44

     So we may need to, uh, uh, it may be another discussion for another time, but I, I am aware of what you're talking about. And when they're riding up and down the road with the lights on solid, not flashing, it does tend to create some confusion. Um, and so that's a discussion we'll have, but, uh, that's not, not what you're here for, and we don't expect you to, to have all the answers. But if you do have any, we are happy to receive those. Okay. So, uh, Chairman Jaspers. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative, I just got a question on, um, line 26, 27.

269. 1:13:16

     I know in committee, uh, over the years, we've, we've talked about this, where an individual, when they're traveling on a road, let's just-

270. 1:13:26

     85 is not really a good example, but anywhere where there blue come up on while blue lights, it gives them the opportunity, uh, and I don't know where we are in the law today 'cause it's so many different ones, but, you know, this seems like it would allow the individual to move to wherever they feel is a, is a safe location. Not just on the side of the road, but a safe location. And, you know, I'm just curious how, you know, does this cause a conflict? You know, what I...

271. 1:13:56

     As a lady maybe driving down the road, get lights upon me, I may feel it's an unsafe location, then I go maybe a mile to a service station or church or wherever. How do we, uh, how does this resolve?

272. 1:14:11

     So th- that's also a good question. And I will say with respect to those specific lines, that's put in there precisely to contemplate scenarios like this because there might be circumstances where it is in fact unsafe to go over to the right shoulder. Yes, again, to be clear, that is the message that we want to send, and we want to codify that because that is generally the best practice. But specifically that line provided that when such requirement, i.e. moving to the right, would result in essentially an unsafe location, we don't want to encourage that.

273. 1:14:43

     Mm.

274. 1:14:43

     So that's why that's in there, so that you're not just saying it is always right to move the, to the right. Just again, generally, move over to the right if and when it is safe to do so. And of course, if it is not, then, you know, use your best judgment. And I think law enforcement in general, the, the ones I've spoken to, very much understand that. But that's specifically in there so you're not creating a black-and-white law that would be a disservice.

275. 1:15:09

     I just know in previous conversations in this committee, we've had that discussion and, and it wasn't clear.

276. 1:15:15

     Yeah.

277. 1:15:16

     And that it seemed to cause a conflict. And, um, I know what you're trying to do, but I can see on not every state highway or county road has a safe right, has a safe, you know, area to the right. I just, you're wondering how that's, what conflict that's gonna bring 'cause looks like if they didn't in the eyes of the law enforcement person, they could write them a ticket.

278. 1:15:38

     So, uh, what I would venture is that if... Again, part of what we're trying to do is to make it as consistent with what's already there, particularly in subsection A. So subsection A doesn't have that language that you're talking about. Um, so, and, and I can understand why that confusion exists. Um, but it's specifically, we added it to, uh, subsection B, what is already, as you'll see in section two of this bill, some language around what is reasonably safe. We wanted to keep that in there precisely because no, you're not gonna address every single scenario, but this is going to be a general guideline for people that allows people to use their best judgment as well as allow law enforcement to use their best judgment while still addressing those really terrible cases that we're really trying to get to of, of people just dead stopping in the middle of the road.

279. 1:16:33

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

280. 1:16:35

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, and to that point, um, specifically to that language, I had similar questions as you did. In fact, I had a meeting with, uh, our legislative council. We sat down and talked about that very specific language. Um, it is already in code if you look down on lines 38 to 43. Um, it's already in code in another section, and that's just being replicated and moved up here. So we're not really changing anything in code, it's just changing where the location is. So, um, I, I did have some questions about, I mean, it, it, it is somewhat interpretive, you know?

281. 1:17:12

     And I, I don't know of another way to avoid that. I think the intention was to, to keep somebody maybe on a dark road late at night if they feel like maybe they're not sure who's stopping them, to be able to continue on to a place they feel is safe. So that's, uh... It's been in the code for a long time and, and I think it's one of those things where we try to do the best we can. So, uh, Representative Neal, you were next.

282. 1:17:33

     I want to make a motion appropriate time.

283. 1:17:35

     Okay. We have, uh, one more then I'll come back to you. Representative Chairman McDonald.

284. 1:17:41

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I was just kind of, you know, thinking through the conversation that Chairman Jasperse and y'all were having and, and of course being a, there's, you got the mix of, of police and fire, of the history of, you know, of serving in those capacities. You know, a lot of time, you know, when a, when an officer gets you for, uh, speeding, you know, he's coming usually from a stop position, and he's coming hard to catch up with you. And a lot of the times that person doesn't know, "Is it me?" You know, you're always hoping it's not.

285. 1:18:13

     So, uh- And it's usually me. Sorry. It's, uh, but with that saying, Vance, um, you know, it's, it's that, that, that confusion of seeing that car coming at you. What do I do? And, uh, hey, I've, I've dri- drove a firetruck for 27 years and I, yes, I'm guilty of passing on the right to going on a call. And that's the thing, and I've, I've ridden with law enforcement, and when they're responding to another call, they pass people on the right. And, and I think there's where some confusion is with, with the, you know, language like this is, you know, the, the unknown of not knowing what to do, the freeze factor and the wish factor that it's not you.

286. 1:18:53

     Uh, so I think all that goes into, into play. I mean, so I just wanted to kind of bring that up.

287. 1:18:58

     Yeah. I, I really appreciate these, the committee's comments because it is important to, to recognize that, that freeze factor. I, I think it's very important to do that. While I don't think, and, and to echo Chairman Crowe's comments, the language in there that would not just have a black-and-white requirement, which to be clear, this bill doesn't do that. It is saying move over to the right when and if it is safe to do so. That is in there again to mirror- To send that general message, which is important, without ...

288. 1:19:32

     And, and I understand, uh, um, sometimes I wish we could address every single scenario and create that kind of clarity. I think, and especially those that have been in law enforcement, I have not, understand that there needs to be some of that, uh, field of play or field decisions. So this is written in the best possible way to create some additional clarity, uh, importing additional language, mirroring it with what already exists, and so attempting to create, um, a little bit less of a general direction, um, because I don't personally think, and I, I'd be- uh, I've, I've listened to some of these committees.

289. 1:20:07

     I've, I've seen some of the language. I don't personally feel that we can, at least for now, get to a point where we can write the law that would address every single situation, and I don't necessarily think, I mean, I defer to law enforcement, that you want to have a black and white law like that.

290. 1:20:24

     Okay. Representative Cummings.

291. 1:20:28

     Thank you, um, Chairman. Um, thank you for bringing this and trying to bring clarity. But I'm kind of wondering, I know if someone's behind me, and if it's an emergency vehicle, I'm just trying to get out the way safely. And so all of this kind of leaves my head, and I'm just trying to get, especially in traffic or something like that, I'm just trying to get out of the way safely and hope they're not directly behind me, like, like my colleague said. So I'm kind of wondering, when this, if this passes, and then I guess it's more of a thought than a, a question, I don't really think people are going to even know about it unless you do some kind of education campaign.

292. 1:21:08

     'Cause the only time you really get driver's instructions is when you're either going to school to get your license, or if you've done something, you end up in remedial school, then maybe you, you might hear something. But other than that, nobody's gonna really know unless some effort is made to really educate the, um, the, um, public about it. But I thank you for the, for the bill.

293. 1:21:29

     And if I may, I, that is personally in my plans. I will say, um, and I, I mentioned the, um, well, the, the laws that have been passed around school buses. So I worked with our Georgia Department of Education this past summer to, to update, um, our messaging around those laws, which is basically, if you're out there listening, unless there is a raised median on a four-lane road, you need to stop for a stop arm, or a, a red arm of a school bus. Now, not everyone knows that, and, and that's why really, again, I cannot reiterate enough how I appreciate this committee thinking through how people are thinking through that.

294. 1:22:04

     And I think that would be a very important step of, if and when this passes, to create additional education about what the best practices are. I think that's a great idea, and fully intend to do so should and, at, at the appropriate time.

295. 1:22:19

     All right. Chairman Jaspers.

296. 1:22:20

     Thank you. Thank you, Chairman. I just have just a follow-up question, if you might, may, probably to the witness. Is it against the law currently to stop a vehicle on a, a road and block traffic?

297. 1:22:34

     So yes, it is illegal to impede traffic. However, I brought this to the courts, and the response I got was I was causing them to block traffic.

298. 1:22:43

     Pardon me, the last part again?

299. 1:22:44

     I was, so by the officer initiating the traffic stop, we were causing them to impede traffic. So yes and no. There is no law saying they cannot stop. With us is what the courts have, our courts are ruling. However, in general, they're being impeding the flow of traffic.

300. 1:23:03

     It just seems like it'd be much easier that, that we just pass a law that said you can't stop and block traffic. I mean, I just, I don't, you know, the, um, just my opinion on this. Just seems like this is a lot of moving around. You know, I love the part to be able to move to an unsafe position, but it seems like for clarity, I mean, that's the common sense side of this, can't block traffic. And then th- that gives back to the representative's thing about the education part of it.

301. 1:23:33

     That makes sense. I mean, this will be hard to educate people on. That's all, Mr. Chairman.

302. 1:23:40

     Okay. Thank you. Um, I will add just one comment to that. Um, it, it is part of it, and yes, there is a, a law that says you can't impede the fle- free flow of traffic. Um, in this case, the judge's decision said that the, the officer's stop was the reason, so the person was not guilty of that. Um, a lot of times what you're seeing, along with stopping in the middle of the lane, uh, I know they have a lot of I-85. I had a lot of I-75 in Henry County. And, um, if you make a stop and, and you're in a position where you've got a wall instead of a, uh, a grass median or what have you, and they stop in the left emergency lane, there's absolutely no room for you to get off the road and try to get up to the side of that car.

303. 1:24:22

     Um, now you'll see most stops that are on the right. The officer's actually approaching from the passenger side of the vehicle for safety. So-

304. 1:24:29

     Sure

305. 1:24:29

     ... the more they can get over to the right, the safer it is, not only for the driver, because they're at risk as well, uh, but the officer, too. So I think it's, and you're right, it is gonna be very hard to, uh, a lot of pe- there's a lot of laws people don't follow out there on the road about moving over to the right. But, uh, the ones that are supposed to go slower in those right lanes don't follow that one either. They get in the fast lane and go same speed. But, um, we'll do the best we can in educating them. Representative Mathis.

306. 1:24:59

     The, uh, the two bill, I mean, the two cases against the state where you, you know, this is trying to let you have this opportunity and clarity to where if you did stop a car, you could ticket them for stopping in the middle of the road. Is that, is, did I understand that right, or explain that to me again?

307. 1:25:17

     Correct.

308. 1:25:18

     Yeah, that, that's what I wanted to know. It's just, just giving you, because you had gotten, if you, if you gave someone a ticket before we do this, codify this, you get clarity, there was nothing to done. But if you deem this to be done out of Stupidity, I guess. Stopped in the middle of the road instead of getting out the way. Uh, I would just wanna make sure that part of it is what, what part of it you're trying to do. Now, I agree with everything that's been said except what Lauren says.

309. 1:25:48

     I don't too much agree with what he says. But I'm teasing. I, uh, living in Gwinnett County, I got a daughter who lives up in Buford, so it's kinda hard getting over when that thing's full. So I do understand some of the concerns that everybody's having about it. I live down in the sticks. Down there, we can get over anytime, so I can go anywhere, but, uh, and, and love where I live. But that, that was my point on this, is you're just trying to get this so if something, somebody did do that a- and it, and it was a blatant, you know, just stopped in the middle of the road, then you have some kind of recourse to make sure they don't.

310. 1:26:28

     That, that's what I saw.

311. 1:26:30

     Correct. Thank you.

312. 1:26:31

     All right, our last one to Representative Neal.

313. 1:26:35

     Uh, yes. Well, thank you for the bill once again. I think it's pretty solid, and if I can make that motion.

314. 1:26:39

     You can. Now would be the time.

315. 1:26:41

     All right. Thank you to the chair. I move due pass, uh, House Bill ... I'm going blind. Uh, House Bill, um, 1161.

316. 1:26:51

     All right. We have a motion due pass. Is there a second?

317. 1:26:55

     Second.

318. 1:26:55

     And we have a second. Uh, any further discussion? Seeing none, all those in favor say aye.

319. 1:27:02

     Aye.

320. 1:27:02

     Any opposed say no. All right. You-

321. 1:27:07

     Thank you.

322. 1:27:08

     You are off the rules.

323. 1:27:09

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

324. 1:27:09

     I turned my mic off. Sorry.

325. 1:27:10

     Thank you to the committee. Thank y'all.

326. 1:27:12

     Thank you.

327. 1:27:13

     Thank you.

328. 1:27:13

     And, uh, having no further business, we will stand adjourned. Thank y'all very much.

329. 1:27:20

     Yay.

330. 1:27:20

     Just in time.

331. 1:27:21

     Just in time.

332. 1:27:32

     Yeah