Comité Energy, Utilities & Telecommunications de la Cámara de Representantes, 24 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

485 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:00:02

   I'm just having a big time.

2. 0:00:03

   All right, we're gonna go and call this meeting to order.

3. 0:00:08

   All depends on it. I just chair it.

4. 0:00:09

   Okay.

5. 0:00:11

   Y'all make the decision on when to have it and I'll go-

6. 0:00:16

   Calling the meeting to order. This is the House Energy, Utilities, and Telecommunications Committee. I appreciate everybody that's here that's, uh, been sticking around for an hour, and I appreciate the members that have come for this. I know it's late, but we,

7. 0:01:37

   uh, the previous committee had some pretty important stuff to take up. So certainly been glad that we were able to do that. Uh, if you bow your head. Bless us, Father, and bless these proceedings. Amen.

8. 0:01:54

   Amen.

9. 0:01:55

   Uh.

10. 0:01:55

    When you're running late, you're running late.

11. 0:01:57

    Yeah.

12. 0:01:57

    The Lord understands.

13. 0:01:59

    Uh, we have-

14. 0:02:02

    We have two, uh, we have two me-

15. 0:02:04

    One thing, you know.

16. 0:02:05

    We have-

17. 0:02:06

    Our chair.

18. 0:02:06

    We have two measures here. Uh, I'm gonna turn the meeting over. If you'll chair.

19. 0:02:10

    Yes, sir. I can do that. If I can do it from here.

20. 0:02:12

    If you'll chair, just do it there, and we're gonna present this bill first.

21. 0:02:15

    Are you gonna do, um... Are you ready for me?

22. 0:02:18

    Wait a minute. I've got the... 1320, is that the measure?

23. 0:02:21

    Yes.

24. 0:02:22

    Okay. I've got House Bill-

25. 0:02:24

    Are-

26. 0:02:25

    Uh, I'm sorry.

27. 0:02:25

    All r- the, uh, all right. So, uh, the Chairman Parsons asked me to, to chair this portion of the meeting. We are gonna call on him to present us, uh, HB 1320 LC 560582. Everybody have a copy of that? All right, Chairman Parsons, tell us about your proposition.

28. 0:02:40

    Thank you, Chairman. House Bill 1320 LC 560582, it is the perfect example of a simple bill. All this does is add one thing, uh, t- in regards to the, um, uh, integrated resource plan, the things that are referenced or considered in that, uh, to the following. It already says en- improvements in energy efficiency, pooling of power, purchases of power from neighboring states, uh, facilities which operate on alternative sources of energy, facilities that operate on the principle of cogeneration or hydrogeneration, uh, other generation facilities.

29. 0:03:24

    I- this would add, uh, facilities which use nuclear energy to elec- to generate electricity. And I just think it's important that, uh, we don't lose sight of, uh, nuclear as the, uh, as, in my opinion, the most important, uh, source of energy that we can, uh, we can proceed with. I, I, it's a reminder to Georgia Power. I know they don't have to be reminded about that, but I wanna make sure that it's, it's considered. And as we move forward, as, as the technologies move forward, especially toward, uh, um, the, uh,

30. 0:04:02

    fusion. Uh, fusion, uh, fusion at some point, uh, will become a source of energy and electricity where one, one reactor could, uh, literally provide electricity for the whole country, or maybe even more. But that's in the future, but it's something that's coming along and there's been great strides made with it. But that's all this does. I mean, it just adds, uh, facilities which use nuclear energy to generate electricity. It's one of the things that is considered in the, um, um...

31. 0:04:36

    Okay. Oh.

32. 0:04:38

    Integrated res- resource plan. I never can remember what the thing's called. Um, and that's it. I'll be glad to answer any questions if anybody has any. It's a v- a very simple bill, and that's all that it does. And that's all, that's all that the intention of the bill is, to do that.

33. 0:04:51

    Thanks, Chairman Parsons. Any of the committee members have a question for Chairman Parsons? We have House Bill 1320. Any question for Chairman Parsons? Chairman Parsons, I, I won the o- uh, the word bingo card today for simple bill. You know, simple being used. It was used several times in the well today, and we've used it once today.

34. 0:05:06

    Yeah.

35. 0:05:06

    So, uh, I appreciate. This is, uh, the quintessential, um, simple bill. I don't think we had... I don't know if we had a sign-up sheet out there. Um, uh, we didn't have anybody signed up, but this is a hearing. We, we are looking to take action. Are we not, Chairman Parsons?

36. 0:05:20

    Uh, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to take action if we could.

37. 0:05:21

    Yeah, okay. We are looking to do that, so this would be the time. If there's anybody that would like to speak to this, uh, now would, now would be the time we'd open it up and invite you to come up here, identify yourself, and, and give us your thoughts. Anybody would like to speak to us? We have 1320, HB 1320 LC 560582. Any speakers? All right, I, I see none. We're back to the committee. Uh, you've heard, uh, Chairman Parsons. Um, we, we do have the simple bill, the change on, uh, change to the code on line 28 with just some, uh, re- renumberings on the, the following lines.

38. 0:05:57

    If there are no further questions, we are in a posture to take action on this. What's the pleasure of the, uh, uh- Energy, uh, Committee on this bill.

39. 0:06:06

    Motion to pass.

40. 0:06:07

    I have a motion and a sec- second that this do pass. Is there discussion? Discussion on the motion? Any discussion? Hearing no discussion, all those in favor say aye.

41. 0:06:17

    Aye.

42. 0:06:18

    Any opposed, no? Chairman Parsons, I'm glad to tell you, you're on the roll, sir.

43. 0:06:23

    Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen of the committee.

44. 0:06:26

    I relinquish the chair.

45. 0:06:27

    Appreciate your help. Appreciate your help. And with that, we have another bill. Uh, the author is here. Okay. I was looking for her. Um,

46. 0:06:38

    Representative Barnes, you're recognized to present your bill. It's a substitute to House Bill 1304, and it's LC56, what we're dealing with here, if this is your substitute. You have brought a substitute, is that correct?

47. 0:06:53

    Yes.

48. 0:06:54

    LC... Is it LC560587S? Is that it?

49. 0:07:01

    Er, yes.

50. 0:07:02

    Okay.

51. 0:07:03

    Yes.

52. 0:07:05

    All right. We-

53. 0:07:06

    You want the official copy of the substitute?

54. 0:07:08

    I've got one here.

55. 0:07:09

    Okay.

56. 0:07:09

    I told you.

57. 0:07:10

    The substitute only adds a name to it, so n-

58. 0:07:13

    I may just need the two.

59. 0:07:15

    I have it. I have it for him.

60. 0:07:17

    He'll need that. Okay. Oh, you're ta- Okay. I gotcha. I'm sorry.

61. 0:07:25

    LC560587S.

62. 0:07:34

    Now I don't have the bill. All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you committee members. I will pre- be presenting to you HB 1304. Um, it's to remove the inter connection agreement for portable solar. And while I'm speaking, uh, you can look in your phone at Lowe's and pull up po- portable solar. So it's already available in our Home Depots, Ace Hardware, Lowe's. Um, I, I want to make it easier for Georgians to, um, have solar in their home, and these systems, uh, produce, um, less than 12,000...

63. 0:08:15

    1,200 watts. So, um, well, some of the systems produce more than that, but this bill would, um, remove the interconnection agreement for 12,000 watts and below.

64. 0:08:30

    1,200.

65. 0:08:30

    1,200. Sorry, 1,200. 1,200.

66. 0:08:33

    Wow.

67. 0:08:33

    Not 12,000. 1,200. Um, these devices are already considered safe. They have protections to shut down if the grid goes down, so they won't be feeding power to the grid when it's shut down, and, um, that's the bill.

68. 0:08:56

    Okay. I'm... Probably, uh, we may have some questions too.

69. 0:09:00

    I know we'll have ques- questions. And, um, I've been speaking with our power companies, um, while creating this bill to ensure safety. So I know they have con- some concerns, uh, about the safety, and I wanted to ensure that I have researched and looked into that as well. So I'm ready to hear anyone's, um, comments about it.

70. 0:09:22

    We have at least one que- I do want to ask you, though, you said these, uh, units are considered safe. How to, wh- how to qualify that? How, considered safe by whom and by what, uh, sources?

71. 0:09:33

    Well, they already are, uh, certified by UL, so Underwriters Laboratories. Uh, they have, um,

72. 0:09:45

    programs. They're programmed to shut off when if the grid goes down. So there won't be power leading to the grid when the grid is down. So those are the safety measures that are already in place. Uh, they're already sold in stores. We're just trying to make it easier for consumers to be able to use them at home.

73. 0:10:02

    Okay. Uh, you have, uh, you have a question. And I, and I may have another question when the others are, uh, Chairman Camp. Chair Lady Camp.

74. 0:10:11

    Thank you. I'm gonna have to talk really loud, I think.

75. 0:10:14

    Yeah.

76. 0:10:14

    This is a challenging microphone. All right. All right.

77. 0:10:19

    It's close.

78. 0:10:19

    All right. I think I'm good. I'm good.

79. 0:10:21

    Is it better?

80. 0:10:21

    I'll speak loudly. I'll speak loudly.

81. 0:10:23

    I could use some-

82. 0:10:23

    You, you know, you know they can hear me.

83. 0:10:25

    Yeah.

84. 0:10:25

    All right. So thank you for bringing this bill. I think I'm pretty much on record. I like solar in general.

85. 0:10:31

    Yeah.

86. 0:10:31

    I think solar has a lot of opportunities. Um, but just out of curiosity, um, there's always just... I don't know. I kind of always err on the side of caution, just as far as letting people know. Uh, we have a generator at my home, and, um, we have to turn off the main power to make sure there's no back feed to the power system. That, uh, I mean, just protecting our linemen is just very paramount to me, because they really are, probably have the most dangerous job in this country.

87. 0:11:03

    Is there any particular reason we couldn't maybe look at this from the direction of a registry rather than a written agreement? Um, so all the power company would know where all these were located in, just in case there was a potential issue. I certainly don't ever want anyone to be harmed, and I know you don't either.

88. 0:11:23

    Mm-mm. I have no problem with a registry. Um, I have no problem with that. I'm definitely concerned about p- um, safety for everyone, consumer, definitely our, uh, linemen, electric- electricians. Um, so I did a lot of research before to ensure that safety, and I know Georgia Power and Georgia EMC is here to speak on that. Um, they do have concerns as well, and I know we have gas generators already in the houses that we're not regulating.

89. 0:12:00

    So I mean, this is just fed by s- sun. Uh, my solar yellow jacket as well. I wore that for you guys-

90. 0:12:10

    Aw

91. 0:12:10

    ... by the way.

92. 0:12:12

    Aw.

93. 0:12:12

    But really, in seriousness, um-

94. 0:12:14

    You brought the whole thing.

95. 0:12:16

    I... And I brought a yellow folder. Um, so but basically, uh, I did do a lot of research on the safety issues. I'm very worried about the safety. I have no, um, rebuttal a- with the registry. I, uh, just feel like, um, we should make it easier for our consumers, um, considering safety, for them to, uh, use solar power. I mean, we don't regulate gas generators.

96. 0:12:40

    Well, there are... I mean, you do have protocol. You are required to turn off the power to the road so the power doesn't go into the grid. So that is one consideration.

97. 0:12:51

    Yeah. That's what I talked about with Georgia Power and Georgia EMC.

98. 0:12:54

    Mm-hmm.

99. 0:12:55

    Uh, Representative Huddleston has a question.

100. 0:12:57

     Yeah. Pretty much it's going along with what Representative Camp said. Like I said, being from the... My days of being with the electrical industry, of climbing poles and working on power lines, that was always a, uh, very big concern during power outages of, of generators and that was feeding back onto the lines there. Can you, can expand a little more? You said being solar is number one for generating power that's plugged into the household, how is it determined that it, it can determine that when there is a power failure, that it cuts off and, and, and for sure does not regulate back onto the infrastructure?

101. 0:13:28

     Um, from my research with these machines, it has a feature in there that would shut it down. If it's not true, I mean, our experts are in here, so if we could...

102. 0:13:41

     From my research.

103. 0:13:43

     Okay.

104. 0:13:44

     Uh, Chairman Martin.

105. 0:13:46

     That, my question, uh, went along the lines of, of, uh, Chair Lady Camp, was we just, we did some earlier, actually it wasn't earlier this week, last week, about the trusts that are, are very good trusts to be in, in housing, but they, they go a little bit, uh, they get weaker quicker under, uh, flame, and so we passed a bill so that, that you just put a sticker out- out there on the door. So, um, that, that's just my... I mean, we certainly, you make it, you know, easy and not burdensome to do this if you want, but, um, whether it be an interconnect agreement or a registry, it would seem like that might be something.

106. 0:14:17

     It sounds like the, the author is amenable to, to-

107. 0:14:20

     Mm-hmm

108. 0:14:20

     ... working on that. And then, um, the second question was sort of, sort of by their very nature, they're portable, so one might use one at one location and then, I don't know how easy they're, if they're, they go in a briefcase and you might take it someplace else. But, um, I think there's a way to, to get there, and I just, you're, you're amenable to do that. So that, that was my question.

109. 0:14:39

     Yeah.

110. 0:14:40

     And, uh, I think that that's a good one.

111. 0:14:42

     Representative Ward.

112. 0:14:44

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, you mentioned that the, um, interconnect agreement is 50 pages.

113. 0:14:51

     It's long.

114. 0:14:53

     Um, beside from the location of the solar panel, um, what else are they collecting? And this may be a question for, um, the power company.

115. 0:15:02

     It, it's the same application if you wanna put solar panels on your roof or if you wanna go to Lowe's and buy this box. So, um, I'm just trying to simplify it for the people who go buy the box, but I don't wanna make it dangerous, you know? And if we could do a registry, I would agree with putting a, a line in there to do a registry so you, the power companies can still keep up with who has these. Is there a registry for gas generators?

116. 0:15:33

     Thank you, but you don't run a gas powered generator along with power electricity. It's one or the other.

117. 0:15:38

     Mm-hmm.

118. 0:15:39

     You overload your, your system otherwise. Am I right, power companies?

119. 0:15:43

     I-

120. 0:15:43

     Mm-hmm.

121. 0:15:44

     Okay.

122. 0:15:45

     I wanted to ask you, uh, I've never seen one of these things. I never heard of them actually until you had your bill. Uh, and, you know, as Chairman Camp, uh, Chair Lady Camp was mentioning it, there, I... It seems different to me because if I... I've got a gas generator and, uh, I mean, it's a relatively cheap one I bought from Home Depot or something one time. But I start it up and then, uh, I don't have it connected to the house or anything. I, when I start it up when I have to, when power goes out and I plug a, an extension cord, it goes into the house and I run a few things off of it, you know, for some period of time, and then I'll turn it off.

123. 0:16:21

     But it's not... And then, and people, I know that people do, uh, interconnect them through their, uh, electric panel, but they either know what they're doing or they hire somebody that knows what they're doing. I s- I, m- my question, how do these, how would one, if I went and bought one, how would it connect? I mean, would it be just a matter of taking it outside and hoping to collect some sun, and then, and then plug something into it? Is that... Or are you talking-

124. 0:16:48

     Yeah

125. 0:16:48

     ... or are you talking about actually wiring it into the house? I'm confused about how it, what-

126. 0:16:52

     It's, I mean, we can pull it up right now. It's in all the stores right now, but it's like a little box.

127. 0:17:00

     No, I understand that. Yeah.

128. 0:17:01

     And you, you charge it with the sun and you can plug it in in the house, or it can charge a battery and you don't plug it, you plug something into it.

129. 0:17:11

     Okay. Yes, I understand that too. I mean, some, you can plug something into it. It's, it's, it's g- it's being charged by the sun and maybe has a battery that charges something.

130. 0:17:20

     Mm-hmm.

131. 0:17:20

     You know, charges some. But beyond that, is, does it, is, is there any connection other than once you have some electricity available in it, if you plug a, a power cord into it and run it to some things? I mean, is there, is there any i- any, any interconnection to your, uh, electricity in the house at all? That's what I'm trying to understand-

132. 0:17:41

     Not from-

133. 0:17:43

     I mean, if that's all it did, I don't think there'd be any question about, "Well, of course you get one and you can, you can do that." If all, all you're gonna do is collect, uh, energy from the sun, which produces electricity, and then you store it, and then you plug something into it, I mean, that would be, I mean, in my opinion anyway, it seemed like I, I don't think anybody could argue with that. Well, yeah, that's your business. You could do that. That's what you do with a... You're right.

134. 0:18:03

     You can.

135. 0:18:03

     That's what you do with a, a gas generator.

136. 0:18:04

     You can do it both ways. Yeah. Can you show him?

137. 0:18:07

     But then if you do anything beyond that, I think that's when the, where the question comes in, what kind of damage could it do to the, uh, to the power grid, or what kind of damage could it do to somebody when there's electricity-

138. 0:18:21

     Well-

139. 0:18:21

     ... going out onto the, onto the grid and a, a, a lineman is out there on a pole working? I mean, if that's...

140. 0:18:27

     I've definitely considered all that, Mr. Chairman, and these machines have a feature on there that will cut off within, I think, two or four seconds of the grid going down.

141. 0:18:37

     Well, you know, the gri- the grid going down, but that's not even the problem. The, the problem would be when the grid comes back up. I mean, that would be one problem, but yeah, going down is a, is an issue too because if you have it interconnected, that's when it could actually hurt somebody or kill somebody, depending on how much power it is. I said, my question, like I said, I've never seen one, and I, I'm sorry, I don't usually ask a lot of questions in here, but I'm trying to understand for myself, but we do have some people that want to speak.

142. 0:19:02

     Well, I want to ask questions 'cause I want to make sure everybody's safe, so.

143. 0:19:05

     Okay. We've had some people that want to, uh, speak, and, uh, I know one is, uh, Georgia Power.

144. 0:19:13

     Yes, sir.

145. 0:19:13

     Okay.

146. 0:19:21

     Great.

147. 0:19:21

     Well, I was gonna do that.

148. 0:19:26

     Good afternoon, Mr. Chair, committee members. I'm Wilson Mallard. I'm the renewable, uh, director of renewable development at Georgia Power Company. I've spoken to this committee before. I'm really happy to be with y'all again today to talk about this-

149. 0:19:37

     Good to have you here

150. 0:19:38

     ... uh, this topic. W- And, and I'll just start for the record to state, uh, much like, uh, Chairman Camp said, we are big fans of solar as well. We need as much energy of all types in Georgia right now to support our growing economy. And so, we're big fans of solar. In fact, since I was in front of this committee last year talking about our 2025 IRP, was, uh, in the summer last year, PSC approved us to add up to 4,000 more megawatts of solar.

151. 0:20:09

     And so that would be from really large scale solar farms, sort of medium sized distributed generation facilities, and also customer sited facilities, which is what this portable solar, it's the category we would put it in. Very small, behind the meter. To your question, Chairman Parsons, it plugs directly into an outlet, and then when the sun is shining, it generates electricity that is consumed at the, at the home. So it's, it's producing, if the sun's out, it's producing electricity.

152. 0:20:39

     That energy is being consumed at the home. Now, that's, it's running in parallel. There was a little discussion about the difference between a backup generator, which only runs when the grid is out. Think about a, uh, a natural gas or, or propane, uh, or diesel generator that cuts on when the grid is out. That's different. These, uh, devices are designed just like rooftop solar to run in parallel. And so again, when the sun's out, they are producing. And so again, Georgia Power is in favor of solar.

153. 0:21:10

     We're really in favor of customers being able to leverage technologies to be able to reduce their bill and add this valuable energy to the grid. And so generally speaking, we're in favor. T- Uh, the language in the bill as it's written now, and I've only seen the prior version, I don't think I've, just took a glance at the substitute, but the, the ability to really exempt any small system from the authority of the Cogen act is not something that we, that we can support or something that we think is necessary.

154. 0:21:44

     Uh, we believe that these facilities need to be safe and reliable, like we've talked about. We definitely believe that, um, there should be some sort of an interconnection process. Potentially, there could be a simplification of that process, and happy to talk about that. We've talked about that with the Public Service Commission already. Um, but I want to address one other thing, and that's the notion of, uh, certification for safety. Uh, the Underwriters Laboratories, they're the outfit that, uh, reviews all types of electrical equipment, but solar facilities as well.

155. 0:22:18

     Uh, as of just, uh, earlier today, I asked them and they confirmed there are currently no portable solar facilities that qualify for UL certification. So it, it doesn't exist yet. They've created a certification process-

156. 0:22:37

     Okay

157. 0:22:37

     ... but up to now, they, they only did that last month. Up to now, there are no portable solar facilities that are certified.

158. 0:22:46

     Okay. Would you take questions?

159. 0:22:48

     Absolutely.

160. 0:22:49

     Uh, any questions?

161. 0:22:53

     Uh, who, who's up with that? Chair Lady Camp.

162. 0:22:59

     Um, all right. So differentiating the one, and just making sure with, um, Representative Barnes and what you're saying.

163. 0:23:08

     Mm-hmm.

164. 0:23:08

     Thank you for being here.

165. 0:23:09

     Yes.

166. 0:23:09

     Um, there's a big difference between the screens that one would put up and they would plug in various items directly in them once the sun has come in. People use them camping, for example, or when the power goes out. There's a big light years difference between those that can be purchased anywhere. Um, I think my daughter has one. She camps a lot.

167. 0:23:30

     Sure.

168. 0:23:30

     And then the ones that are larger, because I think hers is maybe 100 or maybe 200 watts total is what can be gleaned from it.

169. 0:23:38

     Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

170. 0:23:39

     Um, the ones that I believe Representative Barnes is discussing are the ones that are larger and they actually have inverters. Is that what your understanding is?

171. 0:23:49

     Y- Yes, ma'am. And, and- I'll, I'll relay, uh, I appreciate the opportunity to share with y'all, and I appreciate the opportunity for, uh, to, to study this technology. Uh, we, we have looked at it over the last couple of months and, and, and learned a lot about it. Uh, what you're describing as, uh, is portable solar, which has... You take it on your boat, take it on your RV, take it to the, uh, take it to the football game. It really does not interact with the wiring in your house or your home's load at all. If the power was out, you could plug a battery in, if that was part of the system, and give you some backup.

172. 0:24:22

     Uh, the balcony solar or plug-in solar is made to plug into the electrical system at the house. It would plug directly into an outlet, and then, as I said, power, uh, devices. When the sun's out, it'd produce some electrons, it would power devices within the house. You know, some, some energy coming from the solar, uh, from the solar generator, some coming from the grid. Now, uh, 1.2 KW is relatively small, but either a very small apartment or condo load in the spring or the fall without heating or air conditioning, or maybe if somebody plugged two in, I think there's certainly the opportunity that that energy could push back to the grid even without the grid being out, even during times of grid operation.

173. 0:25:08

     And so that creates a reliability concern. That's another reason why we would be interested in wanting to know what these devices were, to confirm that they're safe, that they are UL and NEC, National Electric Code, certified, and that we know where they are, what type they are, and, and again, that can help us, um, maintain the reliability and the safety of the system.

174. 0:25:29

     Thank you for the explanation.

175. 0:25:31

     Yeah.

176. 0:25:32

     Uh, so you have another question. Um...

177. 0:25:39

     Oh.

178. 0:25:39

     Oh, you have a question.

179. 0:25:40

     I, I just... I'm s-

180. 0:25:41

     I'm trying to figure out what- ... which lights are who.

181. 0:25:44

     You both have questions.

182. 0:25:45

     Uh, oh, we both... Go, go, go. Go, go.

183. 0:25:47

     Ladies first?

184. 0:25:48

     No, your light's on.

185. 0:25:50

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I just wanted to clarify. So you mentioned, I guess we're talking about the larger, um, solar, um, generators. You're saying they have not been... You don't know of any that have been approved by, um, UL or NEC?

186. 0:26:06

     That, that's my, that's my understanding. I will say, so there's UL certification for existing rooftop solar. That's 1741. That would be for panels put on the roof. An electrician c- or solar installer comes, wires those into the panel of the house. They're inspected. That's covered by UL 1741. UL, uh, noting the growth in interest in portable solar, has created a new certification. It's UL 3700. It just came out last month. They just created, I guess, the testing protocol for how that would work.

187. 0:26:37

     As of today, they did not have any products that were approved through that certification. And so I'm, I'm certain some are working on it. Uh, I've been told there might be a challenge to get that certification. The National Electric Code, which covers the behind-the-meter wiring, doesn't... It, it either doesn't account for... And I'm not an engineer. Somebody could probably r- state this better than me. It would allow for both a load and a generator to be on the same circuit coming out of the electrical panel in the house.

188. 0:27:09

     And so I, u- unless something's happened recently, that's still an issue that has to be solved for between NEC. Once they can approve that, then UL can a- potentially approve some new products for this new UL 3700 certification.

189. 0:27:24

     Okay.

190. 0:27:26

     I see we have some more questions if you want to take them.

191. 0:27:28

     Yes, sir.

192. 0:27:29

     Uh, Representative, uh, Lupton.

193. 0:27:33

     Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I have kinda two questions.

194. 0:27:38

     Mm-hmm.

195. 0:27:38

     And maybe I'm not positive whether the author or you can answer these. Um, one is, do we know what the usage rate of these things is right now? I mean, if they're for sale, I'm assuming folks have these plugged in someplace.

196. 0:27:51

     We, we are not officially aware of any.

197. 0:27:54

     Okay.

198. 0:27:54

     I'm certain that some people have them out there.

199. 0:27:57

     Right.

200. 0:27:57

     They haven't gone through our interconnection process. Uh, uh, when we first started looking at this, we were doing the same thing. We were pulling them up on Home Depot or Lowe's, or maybe a little more scary, on Amazon, where they're drop shipping from, from o- other countries. That is sort of the concern that we have, is, um, folks would get more interested in these the more that we talk about, and without that safety certification-

201. 0:28:20

     Mm-hmm

202. 0:28:20

     ... potentially buying some equipment that might not be safe for the home or also for the, for the lineman and restoration like we talked about.

203. 0:28:26

     Okay. So currently now, you can pick one of these up, plug it in, and nobody has to know about it?

204. 0:28:33

     Mm-hmm.

205. 0:28:33

     Okay. And my second question is, I'm looking at the, the, the l- the letter from Environment Georgia that came with this, and it says that these are used a lot in Europe, and Utah passed similar legislation. So what are, what are they doing in Utah? Is this legislation based on the Utah legislation?

206. 0:28:52

     Yep.

207. 0:28:53

     Okay. Is it kinda word for word, or is it just-

208. 0:28:55

     Uh, uh, d-

209. 0:28:57

     Yeah, tweaked for Georgia. Okay.

210. 0:28:58

     Representative. I'm sorry. I didn't know.

211. 0:28:59

     No, it's okay.

212. 0:29:00

     But, uh, questions have to come through the chair. We can't have-

213. 0:29:03

     Oh, I am, I am so sorry.

214. 0:29:06

     She'll be recognized again when you can have questions.

215. 0:29:08

     It's okay. I'm done.

216. 0:29:10

     Um, Representative Ward.

217. 0:29:13

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, it sounds like the author, um, was agreeable to amending her bill to, um, include a registry. Would that satisfy your requirement, um, for liability and knowing where the, um, devices are?

218. 0:29:27

     I, I, I can't say that just that requirement in and of itself would satisfy. Again, we're still learning about this. This is a, a nascent and evolving type of technology. I don't... I, it, it's my testimony that, that there's not a big enough market or need for this at this point. Customers who want to do this can. They really would be required, on Georgia Power system, to fill out an interconnection agreement. Uh, we would be willing to work with the market, work with, uh, this body, work with the Public Service Commission to come up with some reasonable standards, but we do feel strongly that, um, uh, an interconnection agreement and, um, uh, you know, potentially requiring UL-certified particular models and types.

219. 0:30:10

     Those are some of the elements we'd be looking for before we could support. Um, again, the, the legislation, to me, the, the Distributed Generation and Cogeneration Act's been around and served this state very well since 2001. It protects the reliability of the system, protects the safety, and our solar market is really growing, y'all. It's growing year over year. More and more customers are installing it. The notion of a, of a blanket exemption for small systems is, is not something that, that I think is, is prudent or something that Georgia Power would support.

220. 0:30:44

     Chairman Williamson, did you have a question?

221. 0:30:45

     Uh, yes, sir.

222. 0:30:46

     Thank, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, you mind if I call you Wilson?

223. 0:30:50

     You may.

224. 0:30:51

     Since I watched you grow up. So full disclosure, uh, Mr. Mallard's from Monroe, Georgia, and I knew his parents very, very well, and I can think of no couple that was more environmentally aware and, um, and, and great stewards of, uh, of, um, of our environment in every facet of their, um, uh, both, uh, of their service to the citizens in Monroe, and they were very active in all of our nonprofits. So just fabulous, fabulous co- uh-

225. 0:31:21

     Thank you

226. 0:31:22

     ... couple. Um, but, um, my lineman friends, you ... I walked in late, and I apologize to the author of the bill about that. But, you know, we've had all this, uh, service disruptions through these storms and everything. And, uh, having breakfast with a, with a lineman friend, and, and what terrifies them, as I understand it, is that when somebody has a, a, a generator, and you can buy them at Home Depot, and, and plugs them into the panel, line's down. They talk about the energy's coming out of the house from that generator, and people can get electrocuted.

227. 0:31:57

     Lineman, uh, uh, uh, do ... Is that what we're talking about here? That there's a fear that somebody could get electrocuted, although it's from a solar panel, not just from a, from a g- generator?

228. 0:32:07

     Yes, sir. The, the s-

229. 0:32:08

     Is that a fair way to phrase it?

230. 0:32:09

     The, yes, sir. The same risk exists. It's incumbent on the generator to shut off when there's an absence of grid power. When there's no sine wave coming from the electric system, that inverter, that piece of equipment will shut off. We trust in UL certification. They're a, a third party that certifies these pieces of equipment. For years, they've certified rooftop solar and the inverters, and that certification says they've tested it and it will c- cut off, it will, it will stop generating in an outage condition.

231. 0:32:40

     A- as I understand it, and there's still some, some gray area here, there's, there's a new certification for these portable solars. There's not a piece of equipment up till, up to now that is certified. And so-

232. 0:32:52

     Yeah

233. 0:32:52

     ... there might be coming, but there are not any as of today.

234. 0:32:55

     So, well, thank you. You've answered my question. So, uh, now I've heard members say that maybe there's some ways to improve this bill to make sure that our linemen are protected.

235. 0:33:06

     Yes, sir.

236. 0:33:06

     And, and, uh, we'd still have the great unified grid that we enjoy in Georgia today. But thank you for the, your testimony.

237. 0:33:13

     Thank you.

238. 0:33:13

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

239. 0:33:16

     Chairman Martin.

240. 0:33:18

     Okay. So I'm trying to, to, to take up the lady up on, on her thing and do a little research here. And it, it does, um ... I'm, I'm gonna do this and lay the base. I'm not trying to testify, Mr. Chairman, but it, it lays the basis. These are more, um, um, widely used in Europe.

241. 0:33:33

     Mm-hmm.

242. 0:33:34

     In Germany particular. I know Germany had the problem a few years back where they were burning up their grid because things were going backwards on the, on the grid, but I will assume that that's getting better than, than it was for here. So they mention in here, uh, uh, IEEE 1547 standard. Is that the standard that, that you're talking about? It, it-

243. 0:33:53

     That's rooftop solar

244. 0:33:55

     ... it calls it in here. Okay. But, but it's a, a s- sort of a standard thing-

245. 0:33:58

     Mm-hmm

246. 0:33:58

     ... to make sure you don't backflow to the grid. Is that-

247. 0:34:00

     There's a new one just for these types of devices. That's UL 3700.

248. 0:34:04

     Okay.

249. 0:34:05

     And again, I just was in contact with the, those folks talking about that over the last couple of days.

250. 0:34:10

     So, so, so just, if I can get my hands around this to be clear, if somebody has one of these and, and it's charging a battery or it's charging something and, and they plug into that, that, no, no harm, no foul. That'd be like you're out camping and you're just, you're just doing some-

251. 0:34:23

     Portable solar. Call that portable solar.

252. 0:34:23

     What, what you're concerned with is the models of these that, that would, would plug into, as, as Chairman Williamson said here, clo- maybe close to the box. 'Cause I don't think you can, like, plug things back in the grid. Like, I can't go into a normal AC outlet-

253. 0:34:39

     This, this is to plug into-

254. 0:34:40

     ... and plug something in and charge it, right? I mean, it's, it's a one way-

255. 0:34:42

     That's exactly what this is for, Chairman Martin, is to plug directly into an outlet.

256. 0:34:45

     Mm-hmm. Right.

257. 0:34:45

     Okay. So it would plug into an outlet-

258. 0:34:47

     That's right

259. 0:34:47

     ... and then charge the rest of the house.

260. 0:34:49

     It would just be used while the house has load. So if the house had a load on the grid, uh, the solar panel's putting out one kW at a time, the house would, the apartment would pull one less kW from the grid. It would-

261. 0:35:01

     But you-

262. 0:35:02

     ... it would use that electricity.

263. 0:35:02

     And again, this is what I'm trying to get my head around.

264. 0:35:04

     Mm-hmm.

265. 0:35:04

     The, the, the way to, quote, "wire this into your home" would just be plug it into an AC outlet.

266. 0:35:09

     Plug it into an AC outlet. 220 volt.

267. 0:35:12

     Oh.

268. 0:35:12

     I don't, I don't think so. I think it can be a regular, a regular voltage outlet.

269. 0:35:15

     Well, but he said, he said or. The, but if you, if you had one that would output 220, I guess you could probably-

270. 0:35:20

     That's, that's right

271. 0:35:21

     ... backfill it into a 220.

272. 0:35:22

     That's right. That-

273. 0:35:22

     And-

274. 0:35:22

     And there's been some discussion about-

275. 0:35:24

     Okay

276. 0:35:24

     ... requiring these to be on a dedicated circuit-

277. 0:35:27

     Well, that, that's where-

278. 0:35:27

     ... within the house

279. 0:35:28

     ... that's where I was going.

280. 0:35:29

     Okay.

281. 0:35:29

     So as long as they're not touching the circuit that touches the outside world, y- you're not bothered by it. Or, or, or-

282. 0:35:35

     They are all touching the outside world. If they're getting power from the grid, every, and the, the thing-

283. 0:35:40

     Okay

284. 0:35:41

     ... so let's assume it's a beautiful 72 degree day, there's no heat or air condition running. A home may just have a refrigerator and a couple lights running. 1.2 kW can, is more than a apartment might be using, and it could be flowing back out to the grid in that circumstance.

285. 0:35:57

     Okay. All right. I think I have my head around it.

286. 0:35:59

     Okay. And, and-

287. 0:36:00

     Chairman's got a question here. Yes, ma'am. Um, just one, hold one second.

288. 0:36:03

     Okay.

289. 0:36:04

     I don't know.

290. 0:36:04

     It seems, it seems to the chair, it seems to me, Don Parsons

291. 0:36:08

     Don Parsons. It seems to me that if they worked exactly like they are supposed to work and they're advertised to work, then it wouldn't be a problem because, ah, based on what the, uh, presenter told us, they are supposed to have some kind of internal battery that will operate the thing when it doesn't have any storage that's coming from, uh, energy coming from the sun. Okay, sitting there, and it's supposed to be able to then, if it's, if it is plugged in to an outlet, it's supposed to be able to know if, if there's any electricity coming into the house-

292. 0:36:41

     Mm-hmm

293. 0:36:42

     ... or there's not.

294. 0:36:42

     Mm-hmm.

295. 0:36:42

     I mean, it's supposed to do that.

296. 0:36:46

     Yes.

297. 0:36:46

     A- and I believe what you were saying, well, I don't know if you would still think was a good thing or not, but it would seem from what you were saying, if it, if it were underwriter, uh, laboratory-tested and approved to do that, then it probably really wouldn't be a problem.

298. 0:37:00

     Uh-

299. 0:37:00

     But the thing is it hasn't been, so we don't know if that would work perfectly or not. I mean, that seems to me the, the crux of the issue of plugging, of just plugging in a thing in and thinking it's gonna, and a- assuming it's gonna work the way that it's advertised and sold to work.

300. 0:37:15

     Yes, sir. I-

301. 0:37:16

     It seems to me what it is.

302. 0:37:17

     Yes, sir.

303. 0:37:17

     Go ahead.

304. 0:37:17

     I, I concur with what you're saying.

305. 0:37:18

     Yeah. There has been no testing or i- may have been testing, but it hasn't been approved.

306. 0:37:23

     I'll, I'll also make a comment about Germany and the German market. There, we studied that a good bit as well. Germany does have a good number of regulations and requirements related to these.

307. 0:37:33

     Right.

308. 0:37:33

     You can't just plug anything in. So Germany has seen a proliferation of these. Y'all, their electric rates are, like, 40 cents-

309. 0:37:39

     Yeah

310. 0:37:39

     ... a kilowatt hour, and so levelized cost of energy on these is maybe around 20, maybe it could be less with, with a, a lower price. But affordability is really top of mind for us, as I know it is for everybody these days. Uh, these won't save you money on your bill in Georgia the same way they would in a place like Germany or California-

311. 0:37:59

     Okay

312. 0:37:59

     ... with much higher electric rates.

313. 0:38:00

     Well, thank you. I know we have somebody else who wants to present, so, uh, uh, EMCs.

314. 0:38:08

     Thank you, uh, President, for your, uh, testimony.

315. 0:38:14

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. My name is Emily Patuck, and I'm the legislative affairs and PAC manager at Georgia EMC, representing the state's 41 electric membership corporations that collectively serve 73% of the state's land mass and over five million Georgians with the essential service of electricity. I'd like to thank Representative Barnes for th- her willingness to meet with us to discuss the important safety concerns that our members see in House Bill 1304. Providing safe, reliable, and affordable power is a key mission of every EMC in the state, and the safety of our linemen and others that work on that system is the reason that we oppose House Bill 1304.

316. 0:38:52

     Plug-in balcony solar is a relatively new technology in the United States, and in fact, Utah is the only state in the country that has passed legislation addressing the topic, which happened last year in 2025. Based off our conversations with the Utah Electric Cooperative Association, there have been a number of safety issues related to that, uh, related that have occurred since Utah's law was put into place. Following the passage of the bill in Utah, electric utilities have experienced back feed issues during both routine and emergency work. Um, as we've discussed, back feed is the dangerous unintended flow of electricity in reverse, traveling from a generator or plug-in solar system backwards through a home's electric panel and onto the utility grid.

317. 0:39:32

     This often occurs when a system is improperly connected directly to a wall outlet, cr- creating severe electrocution risks for utility workers and fire hazards. Due to the provisions of House Bill 1304 that explicitly do not require an interconnection agreement for these types of systems, there is no way for our personnel to know who has them and who doesn't. This is different from a typical member that may have solar panels on their roof. Under Georgia law, those systems require an interconnection agreement so the utility knows where those systems are located, which helps ensure that proper safety standards are met when working on the electric grid near places that may have them.

318. 0:40:06

     In fact, based on their experience, the electric utilities in Utah are now working to repeal the legislation that was passed in 2025 due to these same safety concerns. In addition to the safety concerns that I outlined for the committee, there are two additional technical concerns that we'd like to raise for your awareness. First, while the bill is intended to only cover plug-in solar facilities, I would like to point out that in lines 27 through 37, the definition of a distributive generation facility would apply to all facilities under 1,200 watts, including existing facilities such as fuel cell or small wind turbines that may already be subject to interconnection agreements or other requirements.

319. 0:40:44

     In addition, as drafted, there is no limit on the number of plug-in solar devices that a single customer can instal- install, potentially creating additional safety and power quality issues. Working on an electric grid is dangerous work, and our EMCs prioritize safety above all else, and for that reason, we oppose House Bill 1304. Thank you to the committee for your time, and I'd be happy to answer any of your questions.

320. 0:41:06

     Okay. I don't see any que- Well, I'll ask you j- just ask you this. Um- Based on your testimony, um, you believe that there at least should be a, there should be a, a registry, is that right? Of who has them. But that doesn't really answer all of your questions, though, right?

321. 0:41:22

     No.

322. 0:41:22

     That doesn't alleviate all your concerns.

323. 0:41:24

     Yes, sir.

324. 0:41:24

     Okay. Any other questions from the committee?

325. 0:41:28

     I, I don't know enough of the time, but I just in reading, Mr. Chairman, maybe I can get to the bottom. I- if, did, do you concur or have you done research that the, the previous, uh, gentleman said that he didn't believe any of these devices had underwriter's laboratory approval. Do you-

326. 0:41:44

     Yes, sir

327. 0:41:44

     ... provide the same research? Okay. Following that, um, or, well, the bill also says, "Or equivalent nationally recognized." Are you familiar with any nationally recognized testing laboratory that has approved any of these?

328. 0:41:58

     No, and based on the experience in Utah, the devices aren't certified.

329. 0:42:01

     M- Mr. Chairman, then, then I would ask the chairs, you know, given... I, I appreciate the lady bringing it. I think she's getting to the, you know, the point of, of making it easier for people to do this. But a- as a, as a... If those, if those answers are correct, nothing would fit Even if this bill were to pass, nothing w- would qualify as a portable solar generation device, and therefore it wouldn't be able to be used anyway. I would just pose that to you, and maybe the lady, uh, the author of the bill can-

330. 0:42:29

     Yeah

331. 0:42:29

     ... answer that for us.

332. 0:42:31

     Well, I'm not gonna try to... I'm, I'm not gonna try to answer that. I'm not a-

333. 0:42:34

     Okay

334. 0:42:34

     ... I'm not qualified to do that. Um, I'm gonna give the author the... Would you like to respond to the question here?

335. 0:42:44

     Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

336. 0:42:46

     Thank you.

337. 0:42:46

     And I appreciate everyone's, uh, input as safety, again, is one of... is the utmost concern actually. Uh, 78 and 79 addresses, lines 78 and 79 address the safety concerns, and to plug this in, you need to... a device that makes sure that this cuts off. And I am in favor of the registry as well, and we also have other points of view explained on our desk as well.

338. 0:43:18

     Well, I mean, it's-

339. 0:43:19

     So I, I do address the safety in lines 78 and 79.

340. 0:43:24

     Well, it seems, it seems, Chair, that here again, I think I stated this before, I think that, you know, if I want to go buy one and I just want to use it out there and have the, the sun gener-, uh,

341. 0:43:38

     the sun's rays to have it generate electricity, that I would be, you know, I'd be within... The, the, there's nothing, no law that would prevent me from doing that, as long as I didn't plug it into the grid. I mean, so if somebody wants to use it like that, I mean, I'm, I'm c- I can't say. I'm not, I'm not an attorney. I'm not trying to, you know, create law here or anything with that. But it, it seems to me that that would be okay. You wouldn't... as long as you didn't plug it into the... But if somebody plugs that into, does plug it into the, uh, grid, plugs it into the outlet of the ho- house, unless this is passed, it would be illegal to do that.

342. 0:44:12

     And it's, it'd be illegal to do that because of the very concerns that have been, uh, uh, because the law doesn't provide for it, for, does not currently provide for s- somebody to do that. And we would be reluctant to change the law because of the concerns that have been brought up. That's how I see it.

343. 0:44:31

     I'm not a, I mean, I'm not an attorney, I'm not a judge or anything like that. That's how I, that's how I'm seeing it. So it would have to, the law would have to, the, your bill in some form would have to be, would have to be passed and enacted into the law before people, somebody could buy one of those and plug it in. That's the reason you have the bill. And because of the, uh, concerns that have been raised, it seems to me that, I mean, here again, that, that, you know, this is a committee. I'm not the one, you know, I'm not the only one to make... But it seems to me that it would be problematic and illegal to do that unless we pass legislation to do that.

344. 0:45:05

     But there, there are issues, it would seem to me.

345. 0:45:08

     Well, I'm just... This is, my bill is just looking at the interconnection agreement.

346. 0:45:16

     I know. And, uh, I mean, anybody else want to comment on that? We've got some s- we got some smart people here

347. 0:45:23

     We have some speakers that-

348. 0:45:25

     Um, Chair Lady Camp.

349. 0:45:28

     All right. I don't know if I'm one of the smart people or not, but to save money on power bills, there's nothing stopping any consumer right now from buying one of these-

350. 0:45:37

     Right

351. 0:45:37

     ... putting it on their balcony, plugging in any device they want to that uses power and, and get the energy from the sun, just not plugging it into the house grid. Is that not true?

352. 0:45:50

     I mean, you could-

353. 0:45:50

     I mean, you could sa-

354. 0:45:50

     I mean-

355. 0:45:50

     I mean, honestly, as a consumer, you could save money. I mean, I think about charging my laptop and, you know, other things, which might not seem like a lot, but cumulatively it does add up. It's just not plugging it into the grid. Um, I did a search, Mr. Chairman.

356. 0:46:05

     Yes.

357. 0:46:05

     Um, at Lowe's and Home Depot. I was not able to find one specifically that plugged in. They all had an inverter that had the plugins for it. Um, I did find some on Amazon and on eBay, but I did not... And so, and I'm not disputing, I'm just saying I didn't find them readily available, but they might be readily available. I just, I haven't had the opportunity to look to see if they're readily available in our state.

358. 0:46:29

     Okay. Uh, Chairman Thomas has a question.

359. 0:46:34

     Yeah, I think, yeah. It may be not a question, but a little bit more of a comment to Chair Lady Camp's c- comments. The, uh, I, and I apologize, walked in a little bit late, but I can tell you that plug-in solar is something that's actually is happening across the United States right now, and there are panels that are available that, um, uh, specifically in states where power is extremely expensive. Um, I will also tell you that my understanding, 'cause it, it's kinda weird that this bill fell 'cause I was actually just doing some research on this not too long ago. Um, that the best I can tell, they have a micro, uh, controller that's built into these panels, and they do have a UL or a approved certification.

360. 0:47:14

     That, that's what I was told. Now, I have not independently researched that. I can... uh, that's not independent confirmation, but I can tell you that there is certifying bodies that are looking at certifying these, and to the best of my knowledge, have already.

361. 0:47:27

     Well, I think that's a good point. Uh, I think what, what you're saying, uh, there are panel, panels that can be purchased that, that the, this unit would be plugged into.

362. 0:47:36

     Yeah.

363. 0:47:36

     And the panel, if it's UL approved, it would do what they're saying that that unit will do and determine if the electricity's off or on. I think that's what you're saying.

364. 0:47:45

     Yeah. And, and that, that is what I'm saying. I, I'd say that though I would also mention that I do have concerns about these panels at this point in, in the development of the technology, and the reason why is because, uh, if you plug in a, a, say you have a generator, we have a storm, you have a generator. Well, in order to meet, um, NEC requirements, you have to have a, the, a s- the, it's a plate that you put on that makes sure that you cannot engage that power at the same time that you have the power shut off to your house-

365. 0:48:14

     Right

366. 0:48:14

     ... and that's to protect the lineman. In this case, that's not there. I, I think this may be a bill that's maybe just a little too ahead of its time, but I don't think it's, it's a, a bill that, uh- ... uh, is unnecessarily but, something that's not workable. So I- that's just if you wanted my, know my two cents-

367. 0:48:29

     Yeah

368. 0:48:29

     ... that's kinda where I'm at.

369. 0:48:31

     Well, I, I appreciate that. That's good information. Any, uh, anybody else speaking on the bill? Uh, Don Moreland. Is he still here? There he is.

370. 0:48:53

     Oh, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

371. 0:48:55

     By all means. You're good.

372. 0:48:57

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, my name is Don Moreland with the Georgia Solar Energy Association. I have testified in front of this committee before and I appreciate the opportunity to do so again. I just want to clear up a couple of points of confusion that have been brought up and, um, and the state distinction with this UL certification thing that we, that has been discussed. Um, rooftop solar does not have a UL certification either. You know, w- when you have solar panels and inverters and, uh, switch gear and all these other things, all the individual units are UL certified.

373. 0:49:34

     And also, IEee 1547, but there's not a UL certification for the whole thing, and that's the distinction that I'm trying to make where th- this upcoming UL certification is designed to certify the kit. But with these systems, they're, the individual components are already UL certified. They're already have a IEEE certification. So, and we too are, are concerned about the, uh, safety of these systems and would, uh, recommend that these certifications be written into the bill before it being passed.

374. 0:50:15

     Um, we also are in support of, of some kind of a certification, I'm sorry, some kind of a registration with the utility company so they have a line of sight as far as, you know, uh, where these systems are and, uh, what type of systems they are.

375. 0:50:31

     Okay. Very good. Questions?

376. 0:50:37

     Okay. Any other speakers?

377. 0:50:39

     Mr. Chairman.

378. 0:50:40

     Uh, I think...

379. 0:50:45

     Oh. Yes, sir. If you'll introduce yourself and tell us who you represent.

380. 0:50:48

     Sorry to, excuse me. Darryl Ingram, Electric Cities of Georgia. I didn't get a chance to sign the, the, the sheet. I'm sorry.

381. 0:50:55

     Can I ask him to yield to me? I, I need to make an apology.

382. 0:50:59

     Yes, sir. If you need to make an apology, that's your right.

383. 0:51:00

     Well, I, I just want to do that. You, I do, it, it, Adam, at our last meeting, we were meeting a few weeks ago when we were talking about a, a bill, I believe that, uh, Representative Lim had. I, I kept, I was looking for this gentleman and kept saying m- I, I was looking for MEAG and kept pointing at Electric Cities. So I just want to make a point that I c- conflated those two folks. And they were very good at, at getting with us. And I mean, when I'm wrong, I'm wrong. I'll tell you that thing. I, I confused MEAG and Electric Cities and, um, I've, I've talked to you about that privately, but I just-

384. 0:51:32

     Thank you

385. 0:51:32

     ... I'm not afraid to tell you right here that, uh-

386. 0:51:34

     Well

387. 0:51:35

     ... appreciate you getting with us and, but I was, I was looking for you and calling you a different, uh, group. So-

388. 0:51:39

     Ah

389. 0:51:40

     ... appreciate you coming.

390. 0:51:42

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Electric Cities of Georgia, we represent 52 of the municipal-owned electric utilities in Georgia. Um, I, I really don't have much more to say than that the other utilities have said. Uh, we're, we're in opposition of this, of this bill, the way it's written. Uh, we're, we're greatly for solar and, you know, it's much cheaper to put in solar than it is to build the generation projects that we had to, have to fund. Excuse me. Um, our, our thought on this is that the, the technology, the, the regulations are just not here yet and I agree with the gentleman here that, um, uh, this will get the, will get to the, the, the United States and the regulations will get there.

391. 0:52:25

     Uh, but right now one of the main concerns is safety for us and the linemen. Uh, there is a back feed issue. When you're looking at 12- 1,200, uh, 1,200 KD, uh, KW, that's a blow-dryer basically. Uh, if you look at Germany, what Germany did, they cut their, their numbers back from 1,200 to 800 'cause they started having problems. And as someone said, they have created more regulations for this. So if you look at right now under the understanding of PV, uh, systems fall under today, under the National Electric Safety Code which handles behind the meter, uh, which is very important because when you have a gas generator or a propane generator that is for backup generation, the city or county has ordinances in place and, and regulations in place that that disconnect is put in properly so that there is not a back feed.

392. 0:53:17

     Mm-hmm.

393. 0:53:17

     And in this case we do not have that. So if we look at currently, uh, under NEC Article 690 PV Systems and NEC Article 705, Interconnect Electric Power Production Source Rules, those reference rules were written for permanently installed hardwired PV systems, not small plug-in balcony, uh, type kits. Uh, and so again, I, I, I think the technology's gonna get there. I've served on a standards writing committee in my, in my career.

394. 0:53:50

     It's a arduous process, uh, and America's just not there yet. Uh, it, it will get there. Uh, this is much needed in the country. Uh, but our number one concern is, is the feedback back onto the system and the safety of our linemen, number one. I'm happy to answer any questions you may have.

395. 0:54:08

     Any questions? Do you have a-

396. 0:54:12

     Yes.

397. 0:54:12

     Uh, okay, that's fine. Go and ask, you can ask the presenter a question.

398. 0:54:17

     Thank you. Um, would the device that's required to use the portable solar not, uh- not cut it off if the power goes out so it wouldn't be feeding to the grid? In line 78 and 79, I require that-

399. 0:54:35

     Well-

400. 0:54:35

     ... device

401. 0:54:36

     ... it, it should if it's working correctly. Uh, but when you look at National Electric Safety Code... Thank you for that question. When you look at the National Electric Code, excuse me, not Safety Code, the National Electric Code, uh, there are challenges that they're going to have to deal with with these devices to make sure that that i- inverter-

402. 0:54:52

     Is in there

403. 0:54:52

     ... works properly.

404. 0:54:53

     All right.

405. 0:54:54

     Because if you take, for example, I'll give you an example. You have a 15, uh, a 15 amp breaker in your house.

406. 0:55:01

     Mm-hmm.

407. 0:55:02

     It's looking at the power that's coming in, it's looking at the amperage that's being used. If it exceeds the 15 amps, it's gonna trip off. If you've got a, a portable device that's plugged into that same circuit with that 15, well then all of a sudden your amperage may get above 15, and there's no protection on that house. And so that wiring, it probably would w- and that's why Germany went down from 1,200 to 800. So it probably would work on a newer home, but older homes, it's a possibility of fire. And that's why the NEC is so important, that they have to vet this out through a standards process, that everyone is at the table, uh, the, the, the utilities and the vendors are at the table and they work through writing policy that we can all go by.

408. 0:55:49

     So.

409. 0:55:51

     Thank you. Chairman Thomas.

410. 0:55:52

     Oh, I don't know if my mic was turned on or not.

411. 0:55:53

     Sorry. The mic.

412. 0:55:54

     Thank you.

413. 0:55:54

     Yeah.

414. 0:55:58

     I, I, I just wanted to mention that the, the best of, of my knowledge at this point, the state of Utah has, uh, passed a piece of legislation that's, uh, already done what you're trying to do here, and I'd just recommend maybe you start, start there.

415. 0:56:10

     I've already, I've talked to the author. I don't-

416. 0:56:12

     Have you? Well, good.

417. 0:56:13

     Yeah, I'm-

418. 0:56:13

     I, I'm sorry I missed part of your presentation

419. 0:56:14

     ... I've come here feel prepared. I've definitely prepared to come here, so.

420. 0:56:17

     So d- can you tell me the difference between that and Utah's?

421. 0:56:21

     Yeah. Um, we dedicated ours to our code.

422. 0:56:27

     Okay. Uh, again, I, I-

423. 0:56:29

     I mean, I'm not trying to be smart, but I'm saying, like, I've definitely discussed this with the Utah author.

424. 0:56:34

     Okay. So, uh, I guess my opinion is, is this is definitely a, a personal property right to me to be able to produce this, but we have to do, make sure that we're doing it in a way that's safe to the people that are, that are working our lines, and I think that's, that's where this technology hasn't gotten there yet. Just that's m- my personal opinion at the moment. It's not to say that it won't, and I would say that home systems, for that matter, they have a, a significant different amount of components. We're talking about specialized components that, that comprise that system. So there are safety protections in place in that particular setup where there might not be in a, you know, I hate to say it, but a Temu-ordered sh- you know, uh- ...

425. 0:57:13

     a solar panel with plugin. So, um-

426. 0:57:16

     Ooh

427. 0:57:16

     ... I would just suggest that you continue to work on it and let's let technology move on along a little bit further.

428. 0:57:23

     No, I'll have to... No, I'll start over.

429. 0:57:25

     I think we have another question. Representative Lupton?

430. 0:57:28

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, for the author, you said that this is, uh, be- kind of working with the Utah stuff, but that you've changed it for our code. What is like the Utah thing and what is like the-

431. 0:57:41

     What's like our-

432. 0:57:42

     Yeah, what, uh, what did you add that's to our code or, um-

433. 0:57:47

     So basically we have an interconnection agreement and

434. 0:57:53

     like line 16, um, refers to our code and not Utah code.

435. 0:58:03

     They're up at the top of the page there? I'm sorry.

436. 0:58:04

     Yeah, line 16 and 19.

437. 0:58:10

     Any further questions?

438. 0:58:14

     Do you have a further question?

439. 0:58:15

     No. Sorry.

440. 0:58:16

     Okay.

441. 0:58:16

     I'm trying to turn it off.

442. 0:58:18

     Okay.

443. 0:58:18

     I'm sorry.

444. 0:58:18

     All right.

445. 0:58:19

     16.

446. 0:58:19

     Representative Barnes, I appreciate you bringing the bill. I, I, I-

447. 0:58:23

     Well, thanks to y'all

448. 0:58:23

     ... it, it's admirable because I, it's, these are the kind of things that we need to be looking at. I mean, it's a good, it's a good concept and, uh, it, it seems to the chair that until some of these questions or, um, concerns are resolved, uh... I should say, I don't want... Did the PSC leave? Oh.

449. 0:58:43

     The PSC-

450. 0:58:43

     PSC?

451. 0:58:44

     ... is here.

452. 0:58:44

     Oh. We do have another pres- another speaker. Do, do you wanna speak?

453. 0:58:47

     Go ahead.

454. 0:58:48

     I would, yes.

455. 0:58:48

     Okay.

456. 0:58:49

     Yeah. I work with him on it, so.

457. 0:58:54

     There we go. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. So I'm Peter Hubbard. I'm one of the public service commissioners, and what I wanted to talk about was the safety issue, 'cause it's very important, the registry, and then this bill in particular. On the safety, um, as-

458. 0:59:07

     Are you, uh, excuse me, are you a public service commissioner?

459. 0:59:10

     I am.

460. 0:59:10

     Okay. If you could make it short. I mean, I know that you're-

461. 0:59:13

     Sure

462. 0:59:13

     ... I know you're a politician, so we-

463. 0:59:15

     Well, the- I gotta do what I gotta do. The, there are safety concerns here, but there's two different ways. What Utah does is unless you have a dedicated circuit, because you can overload a 15 amp circuit, then, uh, you are, can't push out 1,200 watts. You push out 360 watts, and so you can have full load on that 15 amp and add that 360 watts. So you have to actively go from the 1,200, from the 360, which is default, to the 1,200. You can have that, um, microinverter that senses that 60 hertz, and then when it's not there, it turns off.

464. 0:59:48

     So you can have that anti-backfeed device right there at the portable solar generator and on the meter as well, an anti-backflow device. So you can have two different ways to protect the lineman. So there's many different things. And also, it is important to reemphasize again, the individual components are UL-certified. The microinverter-

465. 1:00:06

     When did, when did-

466. 1:00:06

     ... the solar panels-

467. 1:00:07

     ... that happen?

468. 1:00:07

     ... Qcells, you can be sure they're UL-certified.

469. 1:00:10

     Okay.

470. 1:00:10

     It's the kit altogether that isn't. So on the registry, I think it is important for, um, power companies to know the location. That's what the registry does. It also can help transfer some of the liability away from the power company to that individual that elects for it. Uh, and also, uh, you know, there's just a number of, uh, things that go along with that, and also you can just have that requirement one portable solar generation device. And then the last thing is this bill is zero fiscal impact. It's private capital being deployed instead of state resources.

471. 1:00:42

     And so it's a, it's a great way to address that affordability issue, um, using private capital. It'll only shave 5 to 15% off of your energy bill. It's not meant to replace, um, all of the, the, the power grid, but it is a help. So there's a number of components that, that, that go into this, and I think there is consideration for improvements to the bills written, but, uh, I don't think it should be thrown out entirely.

472. 1:01:07

     Okay. Thank you. Appreciate your presentation. And I think that was the last person who signed up. Herrion, thank you for the, coming, thank you for the bill, thank you for your time that you've, uh, spent here in the, in the committee. I know it's, I know it's tough. I know it's not, it's not fun answering some questions like you've had. Uh, it's the opinion of the chair that there's... We can't proceed with the, the legislation at this time because of the questions that have been brought up and issues that have been brought up.

473. 1:01:38

     Um, we're not gonna take a vote, so your bill's not gonna get beaten or anything. We're just gonna hold it. Uh, you know, uh, we still have, um, a bill could still pass as late as next week. I don't, I don't think that's gonna happen, but, uh, just to, so you know. I mean, if you could, um, look at other avenues about what you wanna do with it. I mean, maybe come up with something that would be, uh, something that could pass, but I don't want, I don't wanna, don't wanna beat your bill down by having a vote on it, because I don't think it, it's the opinion of the chair it wouldn't, wouldn't pass.

474. 1:02:12

     I mean, as far as the units are concerned, um, I mean, I might buy one myself. But, uh, I know I'm not gonna plug it in, and, uh, I'm not an attorney, so I can't, I can't offer any opinions of what the law says. But it's m- I believe that the law will allows that for you to buy the thing as long as you don't plug it in and you're just using it for your own, your own electricity, and I think that's, it seemed like a good thing. I, I would think a lot of times, I'm trying to think it through, a lot of times, maybe not always, but if there's a storm or something like that, and you lo- U- I'm, I'm just referring to my own generator, you know?

475. 1:02:45

     That's why I have it. There's a storm, I lose electricity. So many times you wouldn't have sunshine to, to, uh, generate a thing anyway. But, but that would be a personal thing. It'd be a personal choice. Uh, it, um, you know, uh... But we'll leave it at that. It's still in the committee. Um, and if you wanted to come back and have a registry, but not have the interconnect, interconnectivity part, I mean, maybe we could look at something like that. But as far as being able to plug it in and interconnect with the grid, I just don't see that as a possibility right now.

476. 1:03:22

     Do you wanna say something?

477. 1:03:23

     Can I-

478. 1:03:23

     Yes, please. Yes, ma'am.

479. 1:03:24

     I just wanna thank the, y- you, Mr. Chairman, and the committee. Um, I've... Safety is of utmost importance, so I appreciate everyone who testified, even if you were against it. And, um, I would be interested in doing the registry, and maybe we need to look at... I mean, people are plugging them in anyway already, so.

480. 1:03:43

     Well.

481. 1:03:44

     I mean, they've been using them, and I don't wanna be, uh, the last state to jump on, so maybe we should look into working with this bill, tweaking this bill.

482. 1:03:52

     Okay. Well, I won't offer any further comment

483. 1:04:14

     on the plugging in.

484. 1:04:16

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

485. 1:04:16

     But thank you very much. And with that, we are adjourned.