Comité Motor Vehicles de la Cámara de Representantes, 17 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

347 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:00:00

   Might be 101,

2. 0:00:03

   be 101 March 4th.

3. 0:00:09

   Got one more month.

4. 0:00:12

   Well, good

5. 0:01:04

   morning. We have a sign-up sheet up front. Anybody who wants to, uh, testify to either one of the bills that's on the agenda today, if you'll, uh, put your name and which bill and, uh, who you're with.

6. 0:04:56

   Good morning. I'd like to welcome everybody here. Uh, the Motor Vehicles Committee meeting here, uh, this morning at 8:00. We've got two bills on the agenda. Uh, and I've have said we do have a sign-up sheet on the table. Anybody that hadn't signed up, uh, well, we've already got here, but if you need to sign up, let, let, let me know and we'll get you, get you up to s- and let us know which, which bill you want to s- speak to. Uh, but at this time, I'm gonna ask, uh, Representative Vance Smith, he opened in prayer, and r- and remember Danny Mathis, his family, his mother-in-law passed away. And then I got a call on the way over here, a good friend of, of mine, the county commissioner in, uh, Charlton County.

7. 0:05:32

   He was on his way to Jacksonville. Need to re- remember him in prayers, uh, Jesse Crews.

8. 0:05:39

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Lord, do thank you for this day, and you're the great physician, and you can heal, and it be your will. Um, please be with the commissioner that, uh, Chairman Corbett just mentioned, and keep him safe in his travels too. And also be with Representative Mathis' mother-in-law, Ms. Ellen's mother, uh, lived a long life, 101 this coming March. And, but be with them, and we're all thinking about them at this time.

9. 0:06:10

   And we just thank you for blessings. You have blessed us every day. And Lord, we take a lot of things for granted, but, uh, everything happens because of you. And lead, guide, and direct us that we make the right decisions for the citizens of this great state. And we ask that you be with our families back home, our children and our grandchildren. In Jesus' name we pray, amen.

10. 0:06:34

    Thank you for that. The first bill on the agenda this morning is House Bill 1191. Uh, Representative Angie O'Steen, if you'll come to the table, and if you wanna, you wanna bring your guest with you, and, uh, we'll, we'll turn, turn the, uh, turn the floor over to you. Tell, tell us the, the bill number and, and the LC number.

11. 0:06:55

    I sure will. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and committee. I am working off of House Bill 1191 LC 394871.

12. 0:07:06

    That's what we have.

13. 0:07:07

    Okay, great. So I want to tell a story really quick, and I'll make it fast because I know you've got a big bill coming. But, um, we seem to do a lot of things for, for, for veterans, and that's the right thing to do. A lot of times, it, it... Recently, we passed a bill that, um, allows veterans to be buried in some of our cemeteries, and that's the right thing to do, but this bill is about honoring the living. On the first day of session this year, I walked in about 8:00, and Mr.

14. 0:07:38

    Ken Erickson, who is from my hometown of, or not my hometown, but where I live in Coffee County, he was waiting on me, and he is an American veteran, and he's been working on trying to get, uh, his medal and a couple other medals added to, um, the list of medals that we allow for prestige tags. So without further ado, I'm gonna turn it over to Mr. Erickson and let you listen to his story really quick.

15. 0:08:01

    Thank y'all for letting me come. Um, my name's Ken Erickson, as you said. I'm a retired teacher and an Air Force veteran from Desert Storm era. I served our country and our state for over 30 years. As I've been around the Capitol, you know, all the people around here are very nice when they say, find out I'm a veteran, they'll say, "Thank you for your service." Well, I'd like to thank y'all for your service. Y'all don't make a lot of money, but you do make a difference. But just like teaching, it takes a couple years before you see those differences take place. So I do appreciate you guys, for sure.

16. 0:08:34

    Um,

17. 0:08:39

    I know how much money y'all make, right? Not, not like teachers, right?

18. 0:08:43

    Not as mu- not as much as everybody thinks.

19. 0:08:45

    I know that's right. Uh, but anyways, I know you're not appreciated until years after, after you, uh, put in a bill or place like that, same as teaching. Well, 10 years ago, you put in a bill, um, I mean, a law to show your appreciation for military veterans with special license plate. I never sought to get one at that time. I just felt like, for me, I had, was awarded the Airman's Medal for Valor, but I felt like if I got a plate with that on there, I kind of felt, to be honest with you, it's like you're glorifying yourself and glorifying what you did.

20. 0:09:18

    That was not what it's for. Anybody's ever done something like that seeks no recognition. Otherwise, you wouldn't have done it to begin with, in my opinion. Uh, but anyways, um- After talking with my kids, um, after a few years, they said, "Daddy, these days nobody knows who to believe, what to believe, when to believe it. But if you have something like prestigious on your plate, be- believe it or not, they'll pay more attention to you than somebody that's maybe just a knucklehead trying to tell them some junk." So that's when I said, "Okay, I'll do it." Um, so to make a long story short, I decided to go and get one.

21. 0:09:53

    Of course, I found out you couldn't get one because the Air Force, along with the Navy, Marines, and the Coast Guard were not authorized the same type of medal. However, the Army already had theirs. Theirs is called the Soldier's Medal. Um, the one I received was called the Airman's Medal. Over the years, and it's been about eight years, all the folks I communicated with, didn't matter who I talked with, th- whether they're politicians or civil servants, they all agreed it's just a simple oversight, should be easily corrected. But here we are eight years later and I'm sitting here today, um, and I know that sometimes an oversight can be a big deal.

22. 0:10:28

    With so much going on, it's tough. So what I'm asking you today is just correct an error. I'm not asking you to point fingers, say fingers, nothing like that. It's just correct this error where I can get the medal that I earned on my license plate the same as the Army, so can someone from the Coast Guard, so can someone from the Marines, so can someone from the Navy. Does anybody have any questions for me? I know it's a little complicated sometimes.

23. 0:10:57

    I do not see any questions, but I, I for one want to thank you for your service, uh-

24. 0:11:01

    Thank you for yours, yes, sir

25. 0:11:02

    ... to, to this na- nation and this state. So apprec- we absolutely appreciate that. I'm gonna, uh, turn it back over to, uh, Representative O'Steen if she wants to talk about the bill, what, what we're doing.

26. 0:11:13

    So it's just to add these four medals, if you'll s- on page two, line 33, 34, 35, and 36. Unbeknownst to me, there was also somebody in, I think it was the speaker's office, I might be incorrect in saying that, that was looking for a Submariner's Medal, uh, d- during the same week, and I had no idea. And so when I brought this to Chairman Corbett, he, he a- already knew about that person. So anyway, I would ask for your favorable consideration. I, I think that it's never too, too late to do the right thing by the people that have given their lives so that we can, um, live in freedom.

27. 0:11:49

    Whether we agree with a lot of decisions that are made or not, when, when our men and women take the, uh, take the oath to defend this, this nation and the Constitution, they do it and they don't care what political party's in charge, and I am very grateful for them. And I have, I decided many years ago, um, when I started getting involved with veterans, that, um, we need to be the kind of people that make sure these stories are told, and this is a small way that we can make sure these stories are told.

28. 0:12:20

    So I ask for your favorable consideration of this bill. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

29. 0:12:24

    Well, I, I, I do appreciate you bringing this bill. Uh, I, firsthand I had my father-in-law, he passed away three years ago, but, uh, he was in the Korean War. He was o- went over there before, uh, one of the first ones over there. He was with, uh, the Chosen Frozen, if you ever read, read a book. Uh, got, got cut off from being able to escape, had, uh, you know, one side, Chinese on one side and the, uh, you know, North Koreans on, behind him. They couldn't escape it, had to, had to evacuate him by s- by sea.

30. 0:12:55

    Mm.

31. 0:12:55

    You know, he, he got three, uh, um, not Purple Hearts, but, but three, three medals. Nobody ever knew he, he got those medals, uh, until right before he died, then he brought them out and showed them the medals he got for, for bravery. Bro- Bronze Star, he had three of those. Nobody ever knew it, so.

32. 0:13:11

    Wow.

33. 0:13:11

    But you're right. A story, you know, seldom told is soon forgotten.

34. 0:13:14

    Soon forgotten.

35. 0:13:14

    So we, we appreciate you bringing this.

36. 0:13:16

    Yes, sir.

37. 0:13:17

    Uh, number 19.

38. 0:13:22

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And, and I want to say thank you very much for your service as well, too.

39. 0:13:26

    Thank you, sir.

40. 0:13:27

    Uh, thank you for bringing this bill. I just, my only question, it was not really a question, Mr. Chairman, but I guess is, are we missing anybody? I don't want to miss anybody.

41. 0:13:36

    I appreciate that so much. I don't either.

42. 0:13:39

    Is Space Force on there? I know that's new, so Space Force. If we don't want to miss anybody, I mean.

43. 0:13:45

    I mean, I mean, the reason I say that, I mean, I don't, uh, when I... I, I guess someone that, that, that has, uh, that served our country and, and, and, and des- I'm not saying Space Force is not deserving yet, but when they get there, I, I think... Uh, but I just don't want to make sure we miss anybody at the proper time, Mr. Chairman.

44. 0:14:04

    I, I, I think Rep- Representative O'Steen's been very thorough investigating. You know, when we started, we was just with the, with the Airman's Medal and got the, there was, noticed there was a couple more that wasn't there, and you a- added, added those. That's what, what we tried, tried to do. But, you know, if, if we've missed one, we will-

45. 0:14:19

    Add it

46. 0:14:20

    ... we- come, add it, come back next year. So but anyway, number 26.

47. 0:14:24

    Thank you.

48. 0:14:25

    I want to compliment the author, and, uh, thanks to the witness for being here. And at the proper time, I move that this pass, this bill pass forward.

49. 0:14:32

    Second.

50. 0:14:33

    Yes.

51. 0:14:33

    Now would be the time. We have a motion to second. Any further discussion? Hearing none, all in favor say aye.

52. 0:14:41

    Aye.

53. 0:14:42

    All opposed like sign. Congratulations, you, you have your bill.

54. 0:14:47

    Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman.

55. 0:14:49

    Thank you.

56. 0:14:49

    Thank you, Committee.

57. 0:14:50

    And I'm gonna turn the mic, the chairman's mic over to Vice Chair Barton, and I'm gonna come down to the podium. We got a, a little bill to talk about this morning.

58. 0:15:00

    Make sure it's fast.

59. 0:15:00

    I will.

60. 0:15:21

    Mr. Chairman, the floor is yours.

61. 0:15:23

    Well, thank you. I have no friends with me, so I'm in trouble.

62. 0:15:29

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Members of the committee, I bring before you the substitute to House Bill 1267 LC4962S. I sh- should make sure ev- everybody has that sub. And I apologize for not getting this out sooner. We didn't, we didn't get it till after 4:00 yesterday and, uh, took... Had, had to rush to even get it, get it in a packet. But, but that's why th- this... I understand it's a hearing only on, on, on this bill. That way give everybody time to, uh, digest, you know, what changes have been made from the previous sub.

63. 0:16:04

    But, uh, is everybody... Is that the s-... You got the right sub in their packet? All right. But again, thank you. Uh, you know, I chaired a study committee during the off session looking at the, uh, the, uh, abuse of the tops and dealer tags. And, uh, what, what we learned in that study committee and the amount of fraud and crime that was taking place i, in Georgia is, is really staggering. I mean, we, uh... And, and I think to, uh, help the committee out, I've got a sh- short video, if we can get that video to play.

64. 0:16:37

    A couple, well, we had testimony from, uh, a, uh, Sergeant Barber, I think from Tucker. And then we had a, it was a news report, uh, where a young 18-year-old girl, you know, bought a, bought a car that odometer had been tampered with. And, uh, but anyway, if we can get that video to play, I'd li- I'd like to show that.

65. 0:17:27

    I'm gonna talk about the temp tags, what we see and what we teach. A lot of officers-

66. 0:17:51

    Dewey, we might need your help on this. Uh, are you, you tech- technology?

67. 0:17:57

    IT over here. I'll bet we do.

68. 0:18:04

    I'm gonna talk about the temp tags, what we see and what we teach. A lot of officers don't know that there's only four Georgia top temp tags, and that is the C, P, S and E.

69. 0:19:47

    It's doing that.

70. 0:19:47

    All right. It doesn't look like it's gonna happen. Like I said, this is a hearing only. We can either probably bring, uh, Sergeant Barber back Friday or we possibly have to have the video going by then. But I can, uh, basically, Sergeant Barber, who you seen started there, he, he, he runs a, uh, special squad, the, the, the RAT Pack that looks at automobile theft and crimes involved with those. And he showed just all the instances where they're having trouble, where these, uh, gangs, uh, you know, are taking these temporary operating permits and using them to, uh, uh, auto theft rings, human trafficking, sex trafficking, uh, uh, you name it, just a host of, of crimes they are committing with these, uh, temporary operating permits.

71. 0:20:29

    And then the second part of the video, we had a, a young girl from Peachtree Corners, I believe is where, where this took place. Uh, 18-year-old girl. Uh, and Chairman Powell, I've heard him say it, you know, several times. You know, next to someone's home, the next biggest investment they have is an automobile. But this, you know, 18-year-old girl went out and, and, uh, found a, a Honda Ridgeline that she liked online, uh, in one, one of these, uh, independent dealers.

72. 0:20:59

    So she, she went. It had supposedly had 160,000 miles on the car is what was advertised. So she, she buys the, the car, and, and that same day has, you know, check engine light comes on. She takes it to a mechanic, and then the mechanic, you know, runs the Carfax on it with the VIN number and said, "No, this car's got 280,000 miles on it." So the odometer had been-

73. 0:21:23

    Mr. Chairman, you wanna see if it works?

74. 0:21:25

    We will, absolutely. That, that... It, it, it's much better than I'm explaining it.

75. 0:21:33

    I'm gonna talk about temp tags, what we see and what we teach. A lot of officers don't know that there's only four Georgia top temp tags, and that is the C, P, S, and E. Uh, S, I won't refer to it as how we refer to it, but S is the c- most commonly used fraudulent tag that we see because these guys are using it, figuring out a loophole to print out multiple tags for the same car over and over again. The reason they're using these S tags, a lot of times, is no insurance. Uh, we see a lot of folks that don't have a driver's license. They can't go get a title, so they're gonna get an S tag and ride around for 30 days, and they'll pay anywheres up to $500 a month to get another S tag printed out for them.

76. 0:22:09

    Uh, we see issues with salvage titles, cars being issued salvage titles from other states coming to the state of Georgia. They can't go through the process, so they go and find someone to print them out an S tag and ride around for 30 days until they buy another one. A lot of folks can't get emissions done here in Metro Atlanta, so they'll get an S tag. We see them on stolen vehicles, which I'll show you a couple examples in a second, where these cars are being stolen, the VIN numbers are being changed to fraudulent VIN numbers or cloned VIN numbers, and then they're putting them through the state system to get a temp tag to ride around on that temp tag or to export it out of the country.

77. 0:22:41

    And we've had an uptick in burglaries, in commercial burglaries. These guys are using these cars. They're using our state's temp tags because they know the LPR readers can't read them because they're so small, and they'll do tag swaps. They'll even put just fake tags on there and go commit these crimes.

78. 0:22:57

    These are our problem cars. This is what our LPRs look like at night. The top car, uh, the Infiniti on the right is a stolen Infiniti, and you can see the back window covered up. They're using this with a temp tag to go commit commercial burglaries throughout the Metro Atlanta area. The bottom right is an Infiniti that they swap- I mean, a Maserati they swap back and forth between the two cars. And then unfortunately, the Cadillac Escalade on the left-hand side was used in a homicide a couple weeks ago involving a car and fraudulent VINs and fraudulent titles. Unfortunately, the person that was shot wasn't even supposed to be the person that was shot. He was just a innocent bystander.

79. 0:23:36

    We know there are certain dealerships that are printing temp tags for criminals for a purpose, and in this case, we had an individual come to the tag office, uh, back in June. He brought a fraudulent fake, a fraudulent Florida title for a '22 Mercedes G-Wagon. Uh, the VIN number only had 15 digits, not 17. The tag office was able to catch it. They took the title from him. He left. He pops back up later on, getting stopped in a 2017 Infiniti Q50 with an S tag even though he is a Georgia resident.

80. 0:24:06

    The VIN numbers are changed on it. We found the real VIN. It's stolen. We reach out to the Department of Revenue, who gives us a list of all the tags issued to this person as well as by the dealership, and track down about 12 other cars. We see these people buying these tags on social media. I have bought two tags, one off of a Facebook group. The individual printed it out using some information I gave him, delivered it to me to the QuikTrip in our city. We took him into custody and arrested him for forgery. We've actually seen dealerships, I couldn't find the picture, I wanted to post it, that they have a flyer in their office that tells you, "We will get you a temp tag.

81. 0:24:41

    We will also get you ID cards and other documents that you need to make yourself legal."

82. 0:24:49

    This is a huge problem for us. If you ever get bored and wanna drive by 2759 Delk Road, Marietta, it's a building with about four or five cars out in the parking lot. Uh, they advertise that they have small office spaces for you, a filing cabinet, chair, corkboard, and everything to make you an office. And these are all the dealers that are there. There's no way all these dealers are there. This is what we're seeing. These folks are creating dealerships to be a dealership. They in turn also get a red and white dealer tag. They'll take that red and white dealer tag and make copies of it and pass it around the state for 500 bucks.

83. 0:25:25

    Same tags.

84. 0:25:27

    And, and these tags are not stamped anymore. They're just-

85. 0:25:30

    They're just-

86. 0:25:30

    ... laminated and put up.

87. 0:25:31

    This is the laminated one. We haven't actually got the real one yet, but both of these are laminated. You can see they'll sell these for 500 bucks. Once we catch onto them, then the dealership magically says, "Oh, my tag was stolen. I didn't know about it." But every person we stop says, "No, the dealership gave me this when I bought the car and said just to pay $500 a month."

88. 0:25:49

    So they get the right to this tag, and they also get the right to print out temp tags, which is what they do on a daily basis. And then we also have the fraudulent ones. Uh, we are currently collecting the alphabet. We have pretty much every letter except for Z, but you can see, I mean, they go as far as putting them in little plastic binders. We've seen full-size sheets of paper, but all these are fake, and they ride around all day long, not paying taxes, not doing what they're supposed to do. And I'll close on this. This is what, kinda what we deal with with stolen cars.

89. 0:26:23

    It's not just a stolen car. It's not just a property crime. It's not just a civil matter.

90. 0:26:47

    Two more out the driver's side with guns. They went out and stole at least eight cars that night with a temp tag.

91. 0:27:02

    Mother and daughter speaking out after they say a car broker on Facebook Marketplace allegedly sold them a truck with huge mileage discrepancy, over 130,000 miles.

92. 0:27:14

    The allegation sparked an Atlanta News first investigation with help from Carfax that identified listings with mileage discrepancies. Consumer investigator Better Call Harry shares what he uncovered.

93. 0:27:26

    The state's Consumer Protection Division says DD Auto Brokers, which operates out of this building, has more than 20 complaints and is now under a statewide investigation. Shadasia Johnson made a huge mistake when she test drove this 2013 Honda Ridgeline. She fell in love. You loved the car?

94. 0:27:47

    I did

95. 0:27:49

    And you were like, "I'm buying this car."

96. 0:27:51

    Yeah.

97. 0:27:52

    It was her first car. And for $6,400, her first lesson about everything that can go wrong with a car sale. Her mom, Latrice, found it on Facebook Marketplace.

98. 0:28:03

    Yeah, I seen a Honda with great mileage, and I was like, "Oh, God, this is the right thing."

99. 0:28:08

    It was so wrong for so many reasons. For one, the ad shows the mileage just under 154,000, but didn't show a vehicle identification number, or VIN, which they could have used to pull the Carfax. The night of the purchase, they got a check engine light. The next day, they were at a mechanic they'd used before.

100. 0:28:30

     And he was like, "The gauge is reading on here." He was like, "When did you just buy this car?" I said, "Literally yesterday." And he said, "Ah."

101. 0:28:43

     When the mechanic said the truck needed two catalytic converters, Mom blew a gasket. She called the man who sold her the car, Dennis S. Lewis, with DD Auto Brokers. You're not Dennis, are you?

102. 0:28:57

     Who?

103. 0:28:57

     Dennis?

104. 0:28:58

     He's not here.

105. 0:28:58

     Latrice and her daughter say this is Dennis, although he denied it.

106. 0:29:03

     He said, "No, take it to my mechanic." Gave me the address to his mechanic.

107. 0:29:08

     Here's where they went, to a small shop in Lithonia, where the mechanic confirmed the problem and revealed a bigger one. Latrice took a picture of his scanner, and in the upper-right corner, it shows 153,000 miles. But when the mechanic pulled the Carfax, Mom took a picture worth 285,000 words, or in this case, miles.

108. 0:29:30

     So I'm nudging my mom. I'm like, "Did you see where it said it did the emissions test?"

109. 0:29:36

     Yep, they unknowingly bought a car with over 285,000 miles. Latrice called Mr. Lewis, ready for a fight.

110. 0:29:45

     He said, um, "Oh, just bring it back tomorrow. I'll give you your money back 'cause I don't want no problems." I said-

111. 0:29:53

     Just like that?

112. 0:29:54

     Just like that.

113. 0:29:55

     Hard to believe, but he did take it back, and he gave Latrice a $6,400 refund.

114. 0:30:01

     Everything was refunded, you know, because we try to do everything straight, you know?

115. 0:30:06

     This is Mr. Lewis, although he claims to be Dennis Lewis' brother and business partner, David. He may be, but here he is compared to a mugshot of Dennis S. Lewis when he got arrested on a misdemeanor in 2023. We couldn't find court records showing the outcome, but finding either Lewis wasn't easy. Yeah, it's just one car dealership after another. We started by going to DD Auto Brokers' business address. It's a small office building in Peachtree Corners with dozens of tiny offices that have one thing in common: cars.

116. 0:30:42

     So you've got DD Auto Brokers over here, but this building is full of auto brokers. You've got one here. You've got one here. You've got one here. It's against city ordinance, but brokers are finding space anywhere they can, even in nearby shopping centers. That's where we found the Johnsons' pickup truck. It was down the street in the Bolero Bowling Alley parking lot. We matched the VIN, and guess what?

117. 0:31:13

     It's back on Facebook Marketplace with the same mileage. It's listed under the name Hassan Mara, along with 21 other cars and trucks. We found nine of them, got the VINs, and Carfax agreed to run the reports. Out of nine cars, five had major mileage discrepancies. Some, like this Lexus and this Honda Pilot, were off by 135,000 miles or more. Is that Ridgeline? We found the Johnsons' Honda Ridgeline and some of the other cars.

118. 0:31:46

     They'd moved to a small shopping center on Covington Highway near Decatur. You're not- Hey. You're not Has- Are you Hassan? Hey, give us a minute, please. Are you Hassan? Give us a minute, man. Not a warm welcome- This is my business ... but that's where we found the man who says he is Dennis Lewis' business partner, David. So who is Hassan Mara?

119. 0:32:07

     It, it's one of them boys who posts cars online. And he, you know, I understand where you're coming from.

120. 0:32:12

     David Lewis says he removed the ads for the Honda Ridgeline and the Lexus, and he promised to correct other mileage discrepancies. He did not list the VIN on any of these ads.

121. 0:32:21

     It's gonna list VIN, trust me.

122. 0:32:23

     But after we left, Hassan Mara, the worker listing the cars, blocked me on Facebook, and then he re-listed them under a new name, Kelvin J. Coker. Latrice and her daughter say this is why they are speaking out, to keep others from making the same mistake.

123. 0:32:48

     You-

124. 0:32:48

     All right. Glad we got that to run, 'cause that's, shows the problem a lot better than I could explain it. But I'll, I'll get in, into the bill. But we, during the, uh, study committee, we had a print, a printout of, uh, sales, uh, for dealers versus tops issued, uh, last year, and I had just had a updated report done for the last 12 months, and it, it showed some interesting, uh, uh, statistics.

125. 0:33:18

     Not a whole lot has changed over the last 12 months based on the previous sale. But on this printout I have, there are over 4,700 independent dealers, uh, in this report. So over 300 independent dealers sold none, zero titles applied for, yet they issued tops. The first 50 on this list that sold zero cars issued 24,500 tops with, with zero titles that, that correspond with those sales. There was 24,500. You heard Sheriff...

126. 0:33:48

     Yes, yes, Chief Barber say they could sell these tags for up to $500, something, anywhere from 2 to 500, so I just used the middle number. At 24,500, if you sell them for $300, that's over $7 million, uh, of, of fraud right there. Um, 2,068 of these independent dealers sold less than four Cars. You know, that's 43% of this list. Total on this list I've got printed out sold less than four cars. 644 dealers sold only one car.

127. 0:34:20

     That's 13 and a half percent. So we, we still have a, a huge problem, and, uh, that's what we're trying to a- a- address, uh, with, with, with this legislation. So we go through the bill. I know, uh, we, we got about 30 minutes, so I'll be quick. We go, go through it, and so we'll start, uh, section one. Uh, we're basically making the felony for anybody that's manufacturing, selling, uh, you know, counterfeit tags or, or re- revalidation de- decals. We're now making, making that a, a felony.

128. 0:34:51

     Uh, section two, this is unlawful actions related to license plate use. Uh, if expired plates transfer from car to car. Uh, any person who knowingly violates this, and that's keyword knowingly, uh, that fine now is raised from, uh, 500 to $1,000. And if you read on, the pass it says by confinement and not more than 12 months. So this is consistent th- through the bill where the convi- confinement not, for not more than 12 months or both. Uh, uh, section three, anybody that alters a license plate and, you, e- either mutilates it or, or, or whatever, try to conceal, uh, the letters on it where you don't know who's operating the vehicle, uh, we're raising, uh, penalizing that fine up to $1,000 and then the confinement of not more than 12 months.

129. 0:35:38

     Section four, if you're obscuring the license plate, who willfully, uh, if you're doing this, you know, on purpose, you know, upon conviction, then the punishment will, will be $1,000 or confinement up to 12 months. Section five, uh, this, uh, relates to removing or fixing a license plate with in- intent to conceal or mis- misrepresent. Uh, and this is upon a conviction, uh, a $1,000 up to, not less than $1,000, and then confinement up to 12 months.

130. 0:36:09

     Section six, uh, this relates to, uh, you know, issuing these temporary operating permits, uh, and access to the system. Uh, this, we're, we're, in line 92, we're talking about, you know, defining what a, a dealer is. A, a dealer, anybody, of course, having access to tops, you gotta sell at least five. Defining new motor vehicle dealer, uh, defining used dealer, uh, and temporary opera- rating permits now required on line 115 to where the, uh, VIN number has to be, uh, on that temporary operating permit.

131. 0:36:42

     Uh, on line 123, uh, the initial issues of top shall be 10, unless they demonstrate an annual motor sales history of an amount greater than five, and warning, you know, so if, if you haven't sold at least 10, uh, I mean, five, you don't get access to tops. And then when you do, it's five, and then, but any existing dealers, it's based on last year's annual sales. So this is new, new dealers going forward. Uh, down to line 133 through 203, this is the Department of Revenue, you know, has the ability to suspend access to tops.

132. 0:37:20

     Uh, and that's the process for, for doing that. And, uh, you know, they, if a dealer can request a review, you know, got 10 business tail... 10 business days to, to re- do the review and come back and then with their findings. So that's, uh, like I said, that goes all the way through 203 for su- suspending access to tops. 204, uh, we added here where we want the commissioner shall prepare an annual report to the general assembly on activities of the department relating to instances of fraud, a suspected fraud relating to dealers, dealer license plates, and temporary operating permits.

133. 0:37:55

     So this is something new. So every year they have to come back with us. So if we need to ma- make a change, uh, we, we can. That, that's something new we added. Uh, 223 through 228, the commissioner just, uh, basically, uh, says that they can perform an investigation. Uh, section eight, we'll, I'll probably make a change on, on that one, probably reduce that back. We s- when we started out, we was consistent with $1,000 all the way through, but this is basically anybody who fails to register a new or used vehicle in a subs- subsection.

134. 0:38:29

     Uh, you know, a lot of people forget to put their stickers on tags. So probably, uh, before Friday, uh, that, that will be reduced there. So that's, as I was reading back through this, I've, I've read it probably a dozen times trying to, uh, ma- make sure we've covered all our bases. Uh, all right, we get down to, uh, section 10. Basically, we're talking about, now we're talking about s- uh, what a dealer is, and sh- you know, shall include e-dealer. And then on 279, that same meaning and that meaning on, in 4347-2 is any person who, for profit or commission, sales, exchanges, or attempts to negotiate a sale, exchange of a, uh, interest in used motor vehicles.

135. 0:39:12

     So that's one of the definitions. Uh, then on 293, uh, the e-dealer plate will be different from the used car dealer and new car dealer plate. Uh, then over to 302, uh, talking about dealer permitted to, to put a, a, uh, tag on, on the, for private use on vehicles owned for purpose of sale or lease only. Uh, and then it can, down to 307, uh, they can only have that tag on there for, for a maximum of six months, and I think that's consistent with existing law now.

136. 0:39:51

     Uh, 345 is just cleanup language. Uh, 370, uh, uh, we've, which we're starting to talk about, this is the way that dealer tags are issued now to, uh, normal independent dealers. That stays the same. Uh, and that's where you would just, other than e-dealers, then when you turn the page to 375, then, uh, dealers that are e-dealers, they'd be issued one master plate. Uh, and then they get one, and when, once they've got 10 variable probable sales, they would get a second master plate.

137. 0:40:24

     Uh, can apply for a second master plate whether if they want one or not. The license plate, uh, on 386, we're changing it to a metal, uh, material. Has to be stamped with raised letters. It's gonna be harder to counterfeit. Uh, working with, with, uh, Department of Corrections and, uh, Department of Revenue. We're looking at vendors, uh, how we're gonna do that. So this might change the implementation, implementation date on that part of it, but that makes it harder to counterfeit. And the cost for doing that will be passed on to the dealers.

138. 0:40:55

     Uh, and all the dealers I've talked to have no, no problem with that. So it w- won't be an increased cost to the state. That will be passed on to the dealers for the, uh, uh, dealer plates. Uh, and then, uh, starting at 388, it talks about how, how dealer plates, uh, th- can be revoked, uh, if you commit a violation of this code section. Section 11, uh, uh, is, and this, this code section here, again, it's talking about anybody who willfully concealing or obscuring the information on a license plate, they shall be punished with a fine up to $1,000 or confinement for up to 12 months.

139. 0:41:32

     Uh, section 12, uh, we added three, um, more, uh, conditions that, that would qualify as a felony. And one, uh, knowingly falsifies the odometer reading on a certificate of title. This, this is on line 450. Knowingly makes any false statement in any certificate of title application as to the date the vehicle was sold or acquired or as the date of creation of a security interest or lien. And then on 454, delivers or accepts a certificate of title assigned in blank or basically an open title.

140. 0:42:04

     Uh, is, we've heard testimony where, where that's happening a lot. Somebody, uh, you know, they go to a auction, buy a car, never title it, and then they sell it to a, a, a third party, and then you tran- you give the title to them and they have to transfer it. But it's costing the, uh, locals and states a lot, lot of money, so we, uh, added that. Section 14, uh, and this has to do with o- odometer tampering in section 14. So we, we increased the, the fine on, on line 509, uh, to three times the amount or $10,000.

141. 0:42:41

     Uh, raise that from 1,500 to 10,000, uh, whichever's greater, and then we make that a felony. I, uh, talking to Chairman Powell and myself, it seemed like all of my life I always... It, it was, it was a felony if you tampered with a, with a odometer. I'm not sure how that, that got changed, but you, you see the dangers in, in this video that we had. So that's, that's why you make, make that a, a, a felony. All right. Uh, s- line 547, here we are defining an e-dealer.

142. 0:43:12

     An e-dealer basically, uh, is someone that does not have a lot capable of displaying five cars. Uh, so, uh, that's what we're doing there. Uh, lines 561, we struck except, you know, last year it was added in, in, in, uh, House Bill 581, uh, where, uh, these independent dealers, you had to have a office space, uh, that was at least 250 square feet. Uh, so that has been taken out.

143. 0:43:42

     Uh, I know there was a lot of confusion what that 250 feet meant and what the intent was. But, you know, talking with the author, I'm pretty sure, uh, the intent was obviously not, not to include hallways and bathrooms in that calculation. So, uh, so for the record, that was not to include that. And I think the author's here, so if you want to say anything to that.

144. 0:44:07

     Uh, yeah, that was the intent, was to have a... Where you didn't have the little small offices, you had the 250 square foot was your office. And then we were gonna give some latitude to the board to be able to kind of adjust that a little bit if, if it seemed, uh, fit. And so we kind of had some, uh, couple issues with that, so that's the reason we're, we're striking that out. Is that correct?

145. 0:44:30

     That, that is correct. All right. And then 571, which defining what a motor vehicle is. Uh, 575, uh, we're just striking the definition of a broker, 'cause I understand we don't, we do not have brokers. Uh, the rest of that on the next, on page 24, basically clean up language. Same way on, uh, page 25. Basically, you know, clean up language, uh, instead of broker and e-dealer. Uh, page 26, just more clean up language as well.

146. 0:45:04

     Uh, same thing on 27 till we get down to lines 683, and then we're getting into the makeup of the board, the used car board. And what we're doing here, we're going to, you know, two members of the used car motor vehicle dealers, one of whom shall be an independent, uh, with each count or sells at least 100 cars, and one of whom shall be an e-dealer. Uh, then we got one member shall be a motor vehicle parts dealer, one member representative of automobile insurance industry, one member current law enforcement with at least five years experience investigating or prosecuting of motor vehicle related crimes, one member of the employee of Department of Law's Consumer Protection Division, which is under the Attorney General's office, and then, uh, seven will be the State Revenue Commissioner or his designee.

147. 0:45:51

     Uh, that's the, uh, eight members of the board.

148. 0:45:58

     All right, uh, on line 744, we're adding, uh, this, this is powers that the board has, uh, you know, and wants to coordinate, uh, with the Department of Revenue for investigations. So we, we've had issues in the past with, with different, uh, departments, agencies, you know, communicating with one another, boards communicating. Uh, this, this sets, sets that up. And then the board has to prepare an annual report, just like Department of Revenue does. So the board will have to prepare an annual report to the general assembly of, on activities of the board relating to incid- incidences of fraud, su- suspected fraud, licensed motor vehicle, license plates, temporary operating permits.

149. 0:46:37

     And then, uh, eight, we're just, you know, back in there where they set the minimum size requirements and standards, uh, for the established place of business. Uh, line seven six- six- seven, 70, uh, any person desiring a license to be used as motor vehicle dealer or used motor vehicle parts dealer, uh, it has to be a resident of the state or list an agent for service or process who is a resident of the state. Uh, I think that will, from talking with everybody involved, that will make a huge, uh, change, uh, and, and help what's going on with a lot of these out-of-state, uh, dealers issuing these tops.

150. 0:47:13

     Uh, then, uh, we go on down, then anyone making applications, uh, to become a dealer, uh, the board has to send a copy of that application be forwarded, uh, to the Department of Revenue. That's in line seven 92 and seven 93. Uh, we get down to 815. I know there's a lot of discussion about that initial n- number we had in there, but where we've landed after talking with everybody on raising that bond, 50,000 on, on the bond.

151. 0:47:45

     Uh, that bond was set at 35,000 in 2006. Uh, if you'd adjusted that 35,000 for inflation, that number would be about $58,000 today. Uh, most other states require a bond annually. Georgia, that's every two years. So we're, we're still, uh, at, at the 50, I think we're still, uh, we're in a good spot. Uh, we get down to 836, and all the way down to 865, we're talking about, uh, for some reason, uh, if someone, uh, a, a licensee, you know, terminates their insurance for whatever reason, uh, you know, the, the, uh, insurance, the insurer has to notify Department of Revenue, uh, within a certain period of time.

152. 0:48:31

     And then you get down to 858, Department of Revenue shall send a notice by certified mail, that's what we have in here, overnight, uh, to, uh, inform that the coverage has been terminated and pro- and then provide e- explanation for the penalties. And then if they fail to prove they've either reinstated that insurance or have new sh- insurance, they got 10 days to do this. So if they don't do that within 10 days, then, then Department of Revenue, uh, can cancel, uh, or, or a revocation of their license. So they do have 10 days from they get that notification, so it's not, it's, it's not gonna be a something that they don't know is coming.

153. 0:49:09

     Uh, 934, y- any suspension or reinstatement, the board's got to send a notice to Department of Revenue, uh, within 24 hours of suspending or reinstating, uh, someone's license. Uh,

154. 0:49:27

     976 has to do with any communications, uh, to the general public. Uh, any advertisement, uh, it's got to include the telephone number, address, established place of business, and VIN number. Uh, to, uh, that way, the issue that the, uh, young lady had, she would have been able to look up the VIN number, uh, a- and, and realize, yeah, we can research, you know, this car's got 285,000 miles on it. Uh, also then on 987, uh, the board shall have no power in addition to powers authorized by this chapter to revoke or suspend.

155. 0:50:03

     And that ties back in all the way down to 1084, uh, where the board shall notify the Department of Revenue on the suspension of, of license of used motor vehicle dealer within 24 hours. And then the Department of Revenue is authorized then to investigate that violation. And if they, uh, uh, find that it's, uh, uph- upholds that, then they can, they can suspend or confiscate, uh, the, uh, operate, operate permits and, and dealer plates.

156. 0:50:34

     On line page 44, more cleanup language. Uh, I think the last change we made on page 46, uh, basically in a condition for a licensee to be- to get a license, uh, you have to grant authority, uh, basically to the board, uh, or any peace officer to inspect any record, document, any motor vehicle or motor vehicle parts or accessory at, on the premises of his or her principal place of business or an additional place of business, any- at any reasonable time during the day or night.

157. 0:51:07

     What we're doing here, we're adding Department of Revenue to that list where they have that same authority to be able to investigate records, uh, just like the, uh, board does and, uh, any peace officer.

158. 0:51:20

     That basically is a quick walkthrough o- of the bill. Uh, you know, I think, uh, when we get through this, we're gonna look, uh, look at the, uh, effective date. We're probably gonna have to look at that and maybe a, a couple changes before Friday. But my plans are to hear what testimony we have this morning and then, uh, go, go from there. But I'll answer any, any questions or try to.

159. 0:51:44

     All right.

160. 0:51:44

     As long as Jen is not too far away.

161. 0:51:46

     Mr.

162. 0:51:49

     Chairman.

163. 0:51:49

     Thank you, Mr. Speaker. Sorry. Mr. Chairman. Um, and thank you, Mr. Chairman, for that thorough overview. Um, in regards to the fines and, and/or 12-month confinement, does that stay consistent if this is redundant behavior? I mean, does it increase upon second or third offense?

164. 0:52:08

     Not, not in this bill. We don't address second or third offenses, but-

165. 0:52:11

     So each time they do it, the fine is $1,000 and/or up to 12 months confinement.

166. 0:52:16

     Up to 12-month confinement. And that, that was consistent. And I, and like I said, the only one I'm probably gonna go back and look at is for somebody don't put their sticker on their car revalidation sticker, and that's probably-

167. 0:52:24

     Okay

168. 0:52:24

     ... a little assess for that.

169. 0:52:25

     Thank you, Mr.-

170. 0:52:29

     Chairman, Momtahan.

171. 0:52:32

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you for presenting the bill. We got, uh, 44 pages. I didn't know if I was looking at the state budget or a, a tops bill

172. 0:52:42

     Well, we, we didn't get here overnight, we're not gon- gonna get out overnight, so.

173. 0:52:46

     You know, some of us need to use Jenna too, Mr. Chairman. We might have to, uh, she's running out of time with this bill right here. But, um, thank you for presenting it. I know this is a passion of yours. Um, I did have a few questions for you. I want kind of understand more about your bill. Of course, I'll be reading this over the interim.

174. 0:53:05

     Yeah.

175. 0:53:05

     Is your plan to have a, uh, from what I can tell, a vote on this on Friday, is that correct?

176. 0:53:11

     At the will of the committee.

177. 0:53:12

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I have a, uh, a couple questions for you. Section three, um, so when we go line 63, really you can just say 56 to 65 here. I- it's not your inclination a- and, and maybe you can correct me if I'm wrong here, but in Paulding County, and I, I asked this question in the past and I think, I, I don't know if the bill moved or didn't pass or didn't get adopted into law, but, you know, in Paulding, we sell these stickers, "In God we trust," and they cover up the county's name.

178. 0:53:52

     Do they do that in your county?

179. 0:53:55

     Oh, that's, that's... I- I'm sure they do.

180. 0:53:57

     Okay.

181. 0:53:58

     I'm sure that's, uh, "In God we trust," or...

182. 0:54:02

     It's not your intent.

183. 0:54:03

     No. That's, that's-

184. 0:54:04

     Okay

185. 0:54:04

     ... not the intent. You're not, you're not obscuring the actual license plate itself, the, the-

186. 0:54:10

     Li- so that's, I think, where I think we need to work on that definition.

187. 0:54:15

     Okay.

188. 0:54:15

     Any person, uh, deface, alter, change, or conceal any numeral, letter, character, county designation, or other marking of any license plate issued under the motor vehicle registration laws of the state.

189. 0:54:27

     We can look at that.

190. 0:54:27

     Okay. It, it just, I think that's got to be changed. What we don't want to do, and I think-

191. 0:54:32

     No, that, that'd be u- unintended-

192. 0:54:34

     Exactly

193. 0:54:34

     ... consequence.

194. 0:54:35

     Yeah. And, and I think when we're dealing with big bills like this, we got to make sure all the detail's right. I do have a question, I- I'm just trying to think through the felony statute here, and it's mentioned several times. I won't, I won't give you line numbers. There, there are several sections starting on line 31. You know, I think, a- and I think the, uh, the, my colleague here had a, uh, question about kind of the ability to increase these penalties over time rather than going right to a felony.

195. 0:55:09

     So for example, a- and I think to your point, Mr. Chairman, that, was there 600,000 of these that were issued, is that right? How m- how many of these tops were issued? You had a big list. I don't-

196. 0:55:22

     Oh, uh, just, just the top 50 that issued no, no titles-

197. 0:55:26

     Yes

198. 0:55:26

     ... was 24,000.

199. 0:55:27

     24, I'm sorry, 24,000.

200. 0:55:28

     There's, there's way more than, more than that, but that's just the top 50 that issued no titles.

201. 0:55:32

     I don't think that these just hap- these are ju- not just one instance, would you say? One of these dealers who are doing this fraudulent activity, they're doing it multiple times to make money. Is that correct?

202. 0:55:44

     Oh, yeah.

203. 0:55:45

     Okay. Um, I, I wonder if a elevator should be in this bill, only for the fact that, and when I think about the felony, a- and just, just something for you to consider, and that is somebody's gun rights would be taken away for a felony. The ability to vote would be taken away. I, I just think about maybe that being, that penalty being maybe too elevated.

204. 0:56:11

     Well, well, I think the felony part is somebody that's manufacturing this plate to sell it a- and then putting it on the car. It's not to somebody that's in business that issued the, the, the, the fraudulent tops. Uh, but if you're manufacturing, you know, counterfeit plates and, and selling them, uh, this, it's raised to a felony. All these others are, are not. If you're altering that license plate, that's, that's not a felony. That's, that's the fine and up to, uh, 12 months in prison. All, all these we're talking about are not felonies.

205. 0:56:41

     So those provisions, uh, just making sure those provisions there that I had previously talked about-

206. 0:56:47

     Section 12

207. 0:56:48

     ... or section three, those wouldn't be, those wouldn't-

208. 0:56:50

     No, that's not a felony.

209. 0:56:51

     Okay.

210. 0:56:54

     All right. Very good. I, I still would say just w- I want to think through that and make sure we're not capturing folks in-

211. 0:57:01

     That's, that's what we got to Fry. That's why I did the hearing on it.

212. 0:57:02

     Yeah, absolutely.

213. 0:57:03

     Di- digested.

214. 0:57:04

     Well, that we're going to continue to digest. Those are the top two that I had for you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you.

215. 0:57:12

     All right.

216. 0:57:12

     Let's go to Ridley. Representative Ridley.

217. 0:57:15

     Uh, thank you. Um, just to my partner's here's question, um, I know as far as the odometer and, and a, and a counterfeit tag, uh, that's under a federal statute that's already a felony. Um, a- actually under federal law, it's, uh, it's a $10,000 fine, three years of prison for messing with the odometer. And then for a counterfeit tag, it's a, it's also a federal, uh, felony.

218. 0:57:50

     Number 17.

219. 0:57:52

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

220. 0:57:53

     You're welcome.

221. 0:57:54

     And thank you, Mr. Chairman, for presenting the bill. Um, I know you had mentioned about that list that you have and the list of numbers of the violators, and most of it, I guess you're focusing in this bill on brokers and independent dealers?

222. 0:58:08

     No, no. The, the-

223. 0:58:09

     Okay

224. 0:58:10

     ... the, you just go through it and, and so it, it lists all independent, new car, used motor vehicle, motor vehicle deal- I mean, motorcycle dealers. Uh, but all the ones, uh, I, I've listed, when you look, go down this first page, you look at the, uh, one sold right here, 2,101 tops, independent dealer, which is a used car dealer, uh, zero t- titles. I just went through, highlight the ones zero-

225. 0:58:32

     Yeah

226. 0:58:32

     ... independent dealers.

227. 0:58:32

     Right.

228. 0:58:32

     You go through it, uh-

229. 0:58:35

     Thank you. My question was, is, are there some of the larger dealers in that listing, or did, are some of the larger dealers in there also?

230. 0:58:44

     Well, every, anybody that is a new dealer, used dealer, is, is in this list.

231. 0:58:49

     Okay. Thank you. And then would the, um-

232. 0:58:52

     Yeah, yeah, and they call it franchise dealers. You got independent franchise, motorcycle dealers, recycler, your, you know, parts.

233. 0:58:59

     Okay. And then where you are mentioning the different violations in here, like there's some for felonies, some for misdemeanor, is that pretty much common in the other states with these violations and these misdemeanors and the different types of violations?

234. 0:59:15

     Well, and, and back to what, uh, uh, Chairman Ridley was saying, and, and it's federal law, you know, tampering with odometer and, and, uh, counterfeit plates is already a felony, uh, uh, on a federal level.

235. 0:59:26

     Okay.

236. 0:59:26

     Uh, I can't speak to what the other states is, is calling a, a felony or not.

237. 0:59:31

     Thank you.

238. 0:59:32

     I, I can speak, we got a problem in Georgia.

239. 0:59:34

     Thank you.

240. 0:59:36

     Thank you. Representative McClain.

241. 0:59:39

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess, and, uh, thank you for the bill too, and I guess I have a few questions. But I guess, um, I'll start with the easy one. On, on line 863, you say 10 business days. Are, is that... I mean, excuse me, is that business days or that just 10 days? I just wanted to know. On line 863, I didn't-

242. 0:59:58

     Let, let me get there. I, I, I think it's business days or should be.

243. 1:00:02

     But, um, I don't-

244. 1:00:04

     May- maybe not listed, but, uh, I, I think we can, if we need to make that change, which won't be a problem.

245. 1:00:15

     Right now, it's just within 10 days of the receipt of the notice. Uh, it's just what's in there. So if we-

246. 1:00:19

     Okay

247. 1:00:19

     ... if it, 10, 10-

248. 1:00:20

     I mean, I'm just trying to, you know, think, you know, I'm just saying 10 business-

249. 1:00:24

     10, 10 business days, possibly add-

250. 1:00:25

     Okay. I just-

251. 1:00:26

     ... you know, a couple more days to it. But that's not, that's not a-

252. 1:00:28

     That's not... Okay.

253. 1:00:29

     Not a violation.

254. 1:00:30

     And then I, I guess where I'm at right now, then I have, uh, Mr. Chairman, if you don't mind, just, uh, on 547 and 548, you said, uh, five, to display five motor vehicles. I'm, I was just wondering, I mean, I just wonder what that was about on line 547 and 548.

255. 1:00:51

     Yeah. That's, that's the definition of a E-dealer, and that's somebody that doesn't have a place. They don't have a lot.

256. 1:00:56

     Okay. I mean, so but if you rent a building just like, uh, they were renting buildings, and so now y- y- you're saying that when they have to, uh, they gotta find a, a place that'll say you gotta have a, a parking spot for, for five cars-

257. 1:01:12

     Yeah

258. 1:01:13

     ... or... I, I'm just asking.

259. 1:01:14

     No, right. This is not changing anything. This, this, uh... Today, they operate out of them buildings without a, a, a lot, and this is not change, changing that. It's not requiring them to have a lot.

260. 1:01:25

     But just, but it, you, it's requiring them to have a place for five vehicles.

261. 1:01:29

     No, no. It, it, if you, if you, if you do not have a space for five vehicles, then you're an E-broker, is what we're saying. It's not saying you don't have to have a space. If you, if you don't have a space, then you're considered a E- E- E-dealer.

262. 1:01:47

     Okay. So E-brokers have to have a... So when they, when they go, the E-broker goes and rent, get his building, like I guess what the TV guy did. He went and buy. So they need, each one of those, each one of those dealers would've had to have five spaces?

263. 1:02:04

     To, to be a independent dealer, they would.

264. 1:02:07

     To be an E-dealer?

265. 1:02:08

     Not, not an E-dealer. To be a used car dealer, you'd have to have a lot.

266. 1:02:12

     Okay. All right. I, I want to... I guess I need to, to find out more-

267. 1:02:17

     Yeah

268. 1:02:17

     ... because I'm just, from what I saw, he went to a building, and when he went to the building, you know, he did, it, that was just like a, a office building.

269. 1:02:26

     And, and that's all it is. They, they do not have lots now. They, there'll be hundreds of these operating out of these offices and-

270. 1:02:32

     And they, but they would need to have a place to have, to display five cars?

271. 1:02:37

     No.

272. 1:02:37

     Oh, okay. All right. Well, that... And then I guess my last one, you know, is on 509. I'm just concerned about that 1,500 to 10,000. Um, I mean, that's six times, almost six and a half times is... I mean, it's a penalty, and I just didn't know if-

273. 1:02:54

     Well, it, well, it, well, it depends on, uh, the actual damages. Depending on what actual da- If the actual damage is, uh, in the bill now, if they're $10,000 worth of damages, they have to hire a lawyer and go to court, uh, that can run up in a hurry. Uh, so right now, they, if it was, if they got $10,000 worth of damage, they could receive 10, uh, 30,000 now.

274. 1:03:16

     So-

275. 1:03:16

     Three, three times the damages sustained or $10,000. Depending on the amount of damages they are claiming, it, it could be a lot more than 10.

276. 1:03:28

     Hmm. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

277. 1:03:31

     Representative, uh, Chairman Momtahan.

278. 1:03:34

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Chairman, I have a question for you. I was just talking with my colleague here. We're trying to dial down on this, uh, felony statute. Would you be willing to just mirror the federal statute on this? It seems like some of the penalties and enforcement are slightly different, I think. Uh, I don't know if the intent was to mirror the federal statute, or what was the, what was the intent there?

279. 1:03:55

     The, the intent was to crack down on the fraud and abuse we're having in Georgia. If we, be willing to talk offline, we've got till, a few days to work on that.

280. 1:04:02

     Let's talk.

281. 1:04:03

     And I'll, I'll work with you and, uh, Chairman Ridley, and we'll-

282. 1:04:07

     Thank you.

283. 1:04:08

     Not a problem.

284. 1:04:08

     I have another question for you on the bond statute side of it. I know you said they only had to have a bond every two years.

285. 1:04:14

     In Georgia.

286. 1:04:15

     In Georgia. So, um, and that was for the 50,000. Or it, and I've never dealt with that. I've always bought a bond every year, renewed every year. Is that something that they can buy a bond for 50,000? Is there a cost savings to that, being able to do every two years versus one year? Can you kind of t- talk me through the mechanics of the two year versus the one year?

287. 1:04:38

     Uh, I, I'm, and your-

288. 1:04:40

     Tell them what-

289. 1:04:40

     ... your, your colleague right there by you probably can, uh, attest to that. But I would think it would be cheaper, uh, less paperwork. Uh, usually the cost of that bond's 1 to 2% of the cost of that bond.

290. 1:04:49

     And is that, is that-

291. 1:04:50

     Of the size of the bond

292. 1:04:51

     Yes, sir. Is that, uh, is that a new piece of language? Uh, are they- No ... required to do it e- every year right now, or we just added that they have to have it every two years now? No, that's, that's the law, it is now. So they have to have one every two years right now for different now? And, and, and I'm sure if you have to surrender that bond, they have to buy a new one. I see. Okay. Thank you. Okay. No, we make it annually if you prefer. I think it... I mean, talk to your colleague there. Representative New.

293. 1:05:18

     Thank you, sir. I appreciate the conversations today. The reason why we do it, if I may answer the question. Yes, please. So we have continuing education every two years, and so we get a, a certificate every two years. We get the bond every two years. We send that into the state. And so it's a two-year cycle, just like we are a two-year cycle. And those customers are covered under two years, is that correct? Correct. That's correct. I just wanna make sure the customers are covered for the two, the two amps. Yes, sir. Okay. It is. Uh, Chairman, on page 18, line 436, it says felony.

294. 1:05:56

     We go on down, um, 450 is good. We don't want anybody messing with an, an odometer, and we don't want anybody messing with a certificate of title. But on the next page, 19, which is 454- 454 ... line 454, for a certificate of title assigned in blank, is there any way you would consider building that up so it would be a fine, then a misdemeanor, then a felony? And, and, and you and I talked about that last night, and I would be amenable to that as, as well to make it- That would be great ...

295. 1:06:26

     if somebody could accidentally not sign it, uh- Right ... then, then, you know, first, first time, you know, a fine, then step it up to a felony. Perfect. Thank you, sir. Yeah. And then I have one more question on page 39, um, lines 975 down to 983.

296. 1:06:47

     So does this, uh, the advertisement, uh, the communication via text, does that have to be in every text, the VIN number? I, I don't think intent's on every text, but when you texting on... If, if I ask you about a certain card and you send me back a quote with that VIN number to make sure we're, we're talking about the same car. Okay, so somewhere in the text. Somewhere, somewhere in the text. Okay, very good. Not every text. And my question, uh, uh, next question is, um, so this, this is for used motor vehicles, so this is the spectrum of, um, used, used motor vehicles.

297. 1:07:22

     Um, should we include franchise dealers as well? Because this is just good practice. Yeah, I, I... We can, we can have a conversation. I, I think that's maybe being done now, but we can have that offline if that's... We can absolutely. Thank you. Appreciate it. Chairman Powell, did you have a question or...? He probably gonna tell you we're not going far enough. I think this is probably a good time for me to weigh in. I wanna thank the chairman for this. And, and it's been a, an interesting ordeal, uh- To say the least ... both during the hearings that we had this past summer on this.

298. 1:07:56

     And probably the most telling was the law enforcement and to the members of the committee that's asked questions about felonies and misdemeanors. You know, the, unless you put some teeth in it, it's not gonna stop. Uh, the felonies on odometer reading, that mirrors the state law. A lot of people thought that we still had that law in the State of Georgia. We didn't. So if you're tampering with an odometer, that should be a felony. People used to go to prison for that.

299. 1:08:27

     You get into the tags. Uh, tags are the key component to criminality. The guy from, uh, the Dunwoody squad on motor vehicle stuff, you know, when they showed on the flop cameras, uh, the same identical tag number on three different, uh, vehicles on three different days. That tells you how serious this has gotten. Technology. You know, when we started all of this, I thought I'd been on this committee long enough that I still thought that the, uh, uh, the qualifications to be a legitimate used car dealer was that you had a building and a lot.

300. 1:09:07

     I didn't know about the businesses up here on Belt Road that basically found it was good real estate to have a building to put drop boxes and such as those things so that people could get these tags. Can you tell us how many used car licenses there are today? I think all total, what we found out last year, there are about 7,500, I think, total. And out of that 7,500, how many are on record as having sold vehicles?

301. 1:09:38

     Well, well, what we have this list here, uh, there's over 43%, uh, that sells less than four. And by selling those, they also have access to tops tags. Tops and dealer tags. And dealer plates. Is it not true that during that, uh, during that, uh, period of those hearings that we had members of the legislature who'd made it their duty to take pictures of these? I, I think- And we're talking about $200,000 and $300,000 vehicles riding around with a dealer plate on them.

302. 1:10:11

     And I think that gets back to the 644 that sold only one, and that's, that's probably that, that- Which is probably a lot easier to have a used car license and a dealer plate to put on your wife's high-dollar car so that you're also- Her car, your car, and your, your kid's car, I guess, can make him a- Which is not the reason that we went to great deal of, you went to a great deal of time to put, uh, language in there in case the insurance is dropped. There has to be proof of insurance on those dealer plates, or what we call shop insurance.

303. 1:10:43

     Yeah. And if it's ever dropped, then those vehicles are out there driving without insurance. Is that not true? Is that not... Yes. You know what you... Yes

304. 1:10:56

     This is only my opinion, but what has happened over a period of time is that with this new day that we live in with technology, that all this has done is increase the criminality about some people that are using this and gaming this system, which is an insult to the legitimate used car dealers that are out there to have this kind of, uh, to have this going on. Um, but-

305. 1:11:23

     A- absolutely. I would think the legitimate dealers would want to root out the ones that are the bad actors. Yes, sir.

306. 1:11:28

     That's exactly should be. And, uh, one last question when I talked about these folks and the dealer plates. Is it not true that, uh, one of the guys that owned one of those buildings wheeled in a, a set of hand trucks full of D- tops tags?

307. 1:11:47

     They, uh, apparently just out of, just sort of like your prescription, you're coming every, every month whether you need them or not. You know, it kept, kept coming. He had-

308. 1:11:54

     Yeah

309. 1:11:54

     ... I don't know how many boxes, but it was, uh, you know-

310. 1:11:58

     Thousands of tops tags

311. 1:11:58

     ... thousands of tops that had been, been sent to him. And, and what I understand now from the, the, some of the ones that are in this business say that the number that they're seeing is, is, is being down. That, that the, uh, JRDA is sending out is down. But who knows how many they, uh, got on hand already. They might have tens of thousands that was sent to them, and they're just sitting there on the shelf. Uh, they, they can use them and not, not ask for any new ones right now, so.

312. 1:12:23

     Further question. Is it not true that this tops dilemma that we've been working on for a couple years now with Revenue, that if you go up into the northeastern states, that the number one tag that's run on vehicles up there, temporary tags, are Georgia tops tags in the state of New York, Pennsylvania, and New Jersey, and places like this? So these things have become quite the handy tool for profitability in an illegal market.

313. 1:12:51

     Uh, y- absolutely. The Department of Driver Services commissioner in New York told our commissioner here that Georgia, uh, is, is the most, uh, illegal stu- activity going on with Georgia plates that he's seeing in New York. We're, we're now, we're number one for business, but this, this, we're number one for this as well, so.

314. 1:13:09

     Switching gears on a couple of things, and we'll talk about consumer protection. And you're absolutely right. I have said it for years that the second biggest investment that people make is the purchase of a vehicle. And some of the language you put in here, and the reason that, um, I s- that I, it's my belief that, uh, you and others have gone into detail was because of the, the business itself has gotten out of hand, that, uh, people can go get a used car license for no other purpose than to circumvent the law, to circumvent the TAVT taxes, and to sell tops.

315. 1:13:47

     Absolutely.

316. 1:13:49

     And the consumer has been the, to the lesser of it. When you've got odometer tampering, when you've got this e-commerce type deal that folks are selling things that nobody can track back. One of the reasons you put in here was that on any advertising, there's got to be a process, a, an address, a phone number so that folks can process instead of finding, going around and, are you David, are you John, or whoever it is that sold this car.

317. 1:14:19

     That, that, that is correct. That way you can, you've got someone to trace it back to. And it's not pl- playing whack-a-mole where just, you know, you show up in a parking lot one day, you know, and you shopping mall the next day.

318. 1:14:28

     And finally, if I might, there's a lot of, there's a lot of stuff in this bill.

319. 1:14:33

     Um-

320. 1:14:34

     And that's typical of motor vehicle bills. We've dealt with this, uh, for years. But quite frankly, we'd let things get out of hand because we didn't know all of it until all of a sudden things have the revelations. But the whole issue about changing this was because the folks who were using that quote broker title and things like that, that weren't an actual legitimate used car dealer.

321. 1:14:59

     Absolutely.

322. 1:15:00

     So that's what lent to changing the composure of the board and a multitude of things to make this system start working better.

323. 1:15:10

     I- I- it is. And, and I, I don't think any other state around us even allow, uh, for brokers or e-dealers. So we, we've tried to work. We've, we've got ones that are legitimate, so we, we tried to accommodate them. At the same time, we, we, we, we, we're trying to get rid of the bad actors.

324. 1:15:26

     One last question since you brought up the e-dealers. Is it not true that this is a product of our society today, that everybody thinks that you can do business online, that, uh, there doesn't need to be any responsibilities, and there's where the fault in is the system for both the consumer and public safety?

325. 1:15:47

     Absolutely.

326. 1:15:48

     Thank you.

327. 1:15:51

     And Representative Taylor.

328. 1:15:54

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I may have missed this, but I just wanted for clarity purposes. Is there a difference between the, the top permit versus the top tag? I think I've heard both, but I know-

329. 1:16:09

     No, no, it's just, it's just...

330. 1:16:11

     Same thing.

331. 1:16:11

     It's interchangeable.

332. 1:16:12

     Same thing.

333. 1:16:13

     Okay. Thank you.

334. 1:16:13

     Temporary operate permit or-

335. 1:16:15

     I can't remember.

336. 1:16:15

     Okay. I j- I kept hearing both and-

337. 1:16:17

     It's got the top tag and it's the same thing

338. 1:16:17

     ... okay. Thank you.

339. 1:16:20

     I need to speak at the next meeting.

340. 1:16:22

     Do what?

341. 1:16:23

     Can I make a statement?

342. 1:16:28

     Representative Vance.

343. 1:16:29

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, just asking a question. Could, on Friday, could we have, uh, Department of Re- Revenue make a comment about the bill and, uh, since I know we're running late today, but, um, I'll just make that request.

344. 1:16:43

     And, and I think that's a, a, a good posture to be in right now. I think we're, we're running overtime, is to have everybody come back Friday and continue testimony, uh, Friday. 'Cause I know we've got quite a few here that wants to testify, but, uh, I, I know we're, we're on overtime now.

345. 1:16:57

     Okay. So everyone should just come back and speak on Friday?

346. 1:17:02

     Yes.

347. 1:17:02

     All right. Well, thank y'all for coming and appreciate it. The meeting is adjourned.