Comité Education and Youth del Senado, 23 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

389 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:22:03

   So if y'all would, uh, Senator Still, you mind doing a prayer for us?

2. 0:22:10

   Yes.

3. 0:22:10

   Oh, I'm sorry. Which number?

4. 0:22:13

   12.

5. 0:22:13

   12. Yes, sir. Go ahead.

6. 0:22:17

   Heavenly Father, thank you for this glorious day. Thank you for the cold weather to remind us that you are in control of all things, whether it's 80 last week or 20 today. And, uh, it is, it is good that, um, that we are ever mindful of you and just reminded of your grace, your strength, and your love. And we ask you to please be with us as we consider these education bills and the good of our children. In your name, we pray. Amen.

7. 0:22:42

   Amen.

8. 0:22:43

   Thank you, Senator. You know, I don't, I don't really know how to operate this thing without Senator Payne sitting there. Oh, there he is there . I was like... He always helps me out so much. Um-

9. 0:22:56

   I'm gonna grab a seat.

10. 0:22:58

    Thank y'all. We, we're gonna start off with, uh, Senator Harbin. Um, if you would please come and present your bill, Senate Bill 425. So if you'd just give us the LC number and all to make sure we, we're all on board with you. So-

11. 0:23:12

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir.

12. 0:23:13

    Oh, hold on just a second. Let me turn you on.

13. 0:23:15

    You got me turned on.

14. 0:23:16

    I think you're on now.

15. 0:23:17

    Thank you. I appreciate it. Uh, Senate Bill is 425, and it's LC 492516. It's a pretty simple bill, but it's one in which, uh, sometimes we forget the basics. And what this bill really does is this. It requires schools that receive state funding to provide instruction in cursive handwriting by no later than the third grade. Um, many students cannot read cursive writing at all. Uh, they're limited in their ability in historical documents, personal correspondence, handwritten notes.

16. 0:23:49

    Uh, cursive i- i- is not nostalgic. It's there today. Uh, I had a teacher who said I gave a, a student a handwritten note, and he came, she came back to her and says, "I can't read this." And I think we've really lost it. And the ability to even read our Founding Fathers' documents, documents that are, I'd say, lost long ago. Uh, I actually have some, uh, documents in our file at, at home, written notes from my, my grandfather and one from my grandmother. And not to be able to read those, in my opinion, is a handicap.

17. 0:24:21

    Even though we've got a lot in digital technology, uh, you know, one of the things even myself I've learned, I can key, I can do a lot of things, but when I write it, it sticks with my mind a whole lot better than it does if I'm just digital. And in the digital age, I believe this, we need to make sure that our young people are learning not only the technology side of it but also the ability to communicate in a written format. It's a real simple bill if you look at it. Uh, and, and it's four lines. It's the shortest one I think I've ever done.

18. 0:24:51

    It says, "All schools with students of any grade three through five will re- that receive in any manner funds from the state shall provide instruction in cursive handwriting to, uh, students no later than third grade. Such instruction may be provided within the framework of the existing coursework offered by the school." Also interesting that we do do some things I was unaware of as I did some research on this, is if I asked you the one signature, in fact, I, I gave, uh, Chairman, uh, Hickman my, uh, Senate card.

19. 0:25:22

    I have my signature on the front of the card. And I said, "That's an important part of what you do, is you sign things." I will tell you that when I signed the, the, the bill, I did sign in cursive. I didn't print my name. So I wanted y'all to know that. But we are doing a couple of things that are not mandated, but under the current, um, uh, board of education is that if 90% of the students can write their name in cursive, the school receives a John Hancock banner in proficiency. If they can do their name in r- both their name and the preamble to the US Constitution, the school gets a John Hancock banner and a ribbon of distinction.

20. 0:26:00

    So I'm glad to see that we're doing that, but that's something that needs to be consistent throughout all of our grades as far as that, because I believe it's important. I believe it was important to John Hancock. When he signed his name, he did it with a purpose. When we sign our name, it's for a purpose as far as that. And the important things in life that you do, I don't know about you, marriage, buying a house, all came f- with a signature required. And so I think this is a really good basic bill to bring us back. Uh, what ha- what happened to us is, uh, some of the Common Core issues did not believe that we needed to stay with the basics but that we needed to go more digital.

21. 0:26:37

    I think we need to bring this back so that people can sign their name and be proud of it.

22. 0:26:44

    Thank you. Thank you, Senator. Number 12 is who?

23. 0:26:49

    Me, Chair.

24. 0:26:50

    Oh, okay. Senator Still.

25. 0:26:54

    Senator, I, I think this is a good bill. Um, one thing I'd just maybe as a cleanup for consideration, um, starting around line 16, um, "Students starting grade five shall be taught the weights and measures of gold as a currency." I didn't see that anywhere in the bill.

26. 0:27:11

    Uh, if you would like me to make that amendment, I can make that amendment. I'll be glad to do that, sir. Thank you. I appreciate that endorsement there. Uh, you're absolutely correct. At the time when, uh, they were teaching handwriting, they knew what the price of gold and silver was. Absolutely. Thank you, sir.

27. 0:27:26

    Senator Still, please do not, um-

28. 0:27:31

    ... confuse the issues. Here we are so serious. Um, Senator, is it Dixon or-

29. 0:27:41

    It's me.

30. 0:27:41

    Oh, oh, okay. Yes, sir.

31. 0:27:43

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Chair, for bringing the bill. Um, I'm curious i- in, in doing this, as you capture every school that receives state funds, I'm thinking about Orton-Gillingham schools, um, that are targeted specifically for dyslexia students, um, and other schools perhaps similarly that are dealing with students that have some, uh, challenges learning, uh- I- is there a reason why the hard and fast third grade is in here? Um, and I don't know whether Orton-Gillingham schools would teach their kids cursive in third grade or not.

32. 0:28:15

    I just, I, this ... I, I know what you're trying to do here. I'm just a little concerned if there's any unintended consequence to kind of this one-size-fits-all mandate.

33. 0:28:24

    I would say since there's not a pass-fail issue, it's kind of like this, is if you don't try, you will never accomplish it, and I think that's a part where, uh, we had one of our grandchildren who were taught just printing and had never learned cursive writing, and we've kind of had to work that through at home. Uh, I, I don't know. I, I don't want to create a hardship on somebody from that standpoint, but they should at least be, I think, introduced to it as far as that portion.

34. 0:28:51

    Appreciate that that's your opinion. I'm, I'm just concerned neither you nor I are education experts. I was more so trying to figure out if you've had conversations with institutions, um, about the bill or if this was just kind of, uh, something that you brought forward, uh, due to your conviction, which I respect and admire. Is there ... And, and perhaps we'll hear testimony from other folks today. But, um, I would request that before this bill comes to the floor, if you don't mind reaching out to some of the schools that deal with-

35. 0:29:18

    Yeah

36. 0:29:18

    ... the students that have a hard time reading, um, to ensure that we're not ... But, you know, unbeknownst to us, placing a burden on them that may not be age appropriate for those particular students.

37. 0:29:27

    Okay. Be glad to reach out to them and make sure that that's done. Uh, mo- most of my input has been from some teachers that they agree that that's something that needs to be taught and, uh, they were supportive, but I will check into that. Thank you.

38. 0:29:40

    Thank you.

39. 0:29:40

    Thank you, sir.

40. 0:29:42

    I believe Senator Hatchett.

41. 0:29:44

    Yes. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I like this bill. I'm in favor of it, but I have questions because I know for a while, like you said, cursive writing was not taught in schools, and now we're gonna try to require it again. Do you, and you may not, but do you have any data to suggest that those kids that didn't learn cursive writing, I mean, are they just not signing their names with a signature or do they still teach signatures but just not a full course on cursive writing?

42. 0:30:17

    Could you expand a little bit into that?

43. 0:30:19

    In the little bit that I've been able to get from people, if they never were taught, they printed their name. In fact, I had a cl- a client the other day, and he printed his name out because he had never been taught cursive writing. So I think what we do is going forward, we can't go necessarily backwards from that standpoint. I think we say, "Hey, we're gonna teach you how," from that standpoint, and I think that's a, a, um, an issue that's one that we've, we've to some degree we've caused, if you will, but how do we fix that?

44. 0:30:50

    I think everybody should be taught, and I was really pleased when I found out that the Board of Education was doing just a signature. That's all it took, is have that, because that's personal. I think that's a personal part of ... You know, I don't know about you, but when we get autograph books, I think autograph books are signatures. I've got some signatures of famous people. Uh, that, that is a part of the person, and I think just at least at minimum is to teach the signature side. It's a, it's sad that we've got a g- a generation or a block that have never learned that cursive was a part, and I see that in how people operate even from that standpoint.

45. 0:31:27

    Uh, I'm open to your suggestions on how we might could, uh, better it from that standpoint because that's really going forward rather than trying to deal with what's coming behind us.

46. 0:31:38

    And Mr. Chairman, if I can, and I, and I think my pause in this is just, you know, we're seeing a lot of bills right now that try to catch our criminal code, our civil code up to technology because when the code was written, a lot of these technologies didn't exist. My understanding of cursive writing was it was necessary for the technology we had at the time because people used ink pens that you couldn't pick up, and so you had to learn how to draw without dripping ink all over your, your page.

47. 0:32:10

    Now we require, to my knowledge, we require that kids learn how to type. Um, with this, I appreciate the tradition of cursive writing and I appreciate, you know, receiving a handwritten note and, you know, I'm glad that I can decipher most people's handwritings. But I just wanna make sure we're not going backwards necessarily and impeding our teachers from being able to teach literacy at the basic level, which I know we're struggling with.

48. 0:32:47

    Is this just another hurdle? And like I said, I'm playing devil's advocate here, and I'm just looking at the policy in general, but I do feel like the question needs to be asked to make sure, you know, we're making great strides in literacy. And I'd love to see if there's any data that show if a child learns cursive writing it can help with reading. Um, y- and these are just thoughts. It's not necessarily a question, but just something that I wanted to get out so that we can have the conversation.

49. 0:33:18

    There, there's an article called Looping Letters Are Back in Style: Georgia Schools Reintroduce Cursive, and one of the comments that I had marked in the article that I thought was this, is cursive education is entangled with literacy. Research shows written information down helps, helps your mem- writing it down helps your memory. It gives you a visible reminder. For example, written notes are greater chances of being remembered than typed ones. So it has a connection to the brain that typing does not have from what this article was talking about, and it was dealing with educators that are talking about just this issue, and that's where this, uh, John Hancock stuff came from, is they're taking schools and are w- rewarding them for teaching them how to do their signature, and then if they're willing to write the preamble to the, to the cons- uh, Constitution as well.

50. 0:34:10

    So Senator, um, in the Department of Education standards, it's cursive writing, as you stated. So you're, you've, you've got a concern that not all schools are participating in this cursive writing. That's correct. Okay. That's correct. Senator Halpern.

51. 0:34:28

    I, I was just gonna offer a couple of anecdotes, um, because I too would like to see everybody know how to write their name in cursive. I've got three kids. My oldest is 22. He did learn how to write in cursive. My middle is 18. He does not. So even on his passport, he has written in print his signature for his passport. And I have a daughter who's 10, she's in fourth grade, and they're just now learning cursive. So that's kind of my own, in my own family, a little anecdote about how different it's been kind of through time.

52. 0:35:06

    I probably, a- and I am for this, I think I'm even one of the sponsors on this bill, I, I probably share the concern about the third grade piece, um, 'cause you've got third through fifth, and I do think probably it'd be interesting to understand k- kind of in the, in the, from the reading to the writing to the s- writing in cursive, like, what does that trajectory usually look like in terms of early childhood development and when are they actually even developmentally ready to try to do that work and see where it lies in that third to fifth grade range.

53. 0:35:42

    Okay. I'll do that. Senator Still.

54. 0:35:47

    Uh, just to land the plane on this and on a serious note, um, so th- this bill is just gonna codify the current standard. So I mean, this is already being done. It's, they're already... This is being-

55. 0:36:00

    Some are and some aren't. Yeah

56. 0:36:01

    ... Right. So this is just making it mandatory for all schools. Um, Senator Dolezal asked a really good question about the Orton-Gillingham, um, program as it relates to it, and actually this is from their own website, is that it, um, the, uh, "OG cursive is typically introduced between ages five and eight to build fine motor skills, automatically improving reading, spelling through a multisensory approach." So Senator Hatchett, your question about literacy and what this does, so for kids with reading disabilities, this a- cursive is actually an enhancement to help with that.

57. 0:36:31

    So it, it's not gonna make it more difficult. I, I think that, um, making this compulsory to all kids is a lost art if we don't make it mandatory. I, I think this is a great bill. I'm, I'm glad you're doing it.

58. 0:36:46

    Good. Um, just to, would anybody would, would like to make a motion? Chairman, I'd like to make a motion to, uh, pass LC 492516, Senate Bill 425. Okay. And Senator-

59. 0:37:01

    Second.

60. 0:37:01

    People are a little bored on this thing. Okay. We got a motion by Senator Still, a second by Senator Kemp. Any discussion? Seeing none, um, all in favor, please raise your right hand. Right hand.

61. 0:37:22

    Okay. Uh, Senator Dolezal wanting to be a little bit different.

62. 0:37:28

    It's for good luck. Um, congratulations. Thank you. Thank you for carrying this. Um- Appreciate it ... I know when we talked, when I was talking to our two grandsons that graduated from, um, school down in southeast Georgia, and I showed them some stuff and, um, they said, uh, they called me B. They said, "B, I can't read that. I can't read that." It really kind of, pretty pitiful, so thank you for bringing this bill and, um, appreciate it. Thank you so much. Thank you. Okay. Thank you. Appreciate the committee. Thank you very much. Okay. We've got...

63. 0:37:59

    Are we ready for Senator Kemp?

64. 0:38:01

    Mm-hmm.

65. 0:38:02

    We are?

66. 0:38:07

    Are you ready?

67. 0:38:07

    Yeah.

68. 0:38:12

    Okay, Senator, if you would, um-

69. 0:38:14

    Thank you

70. 0:38:14

    ... please tell us what bill number and LC number. And if, I think we've got a substitute, correct, sir?

71. 0:38:23

    Yes, sir.

72. 0:38:23

    Got a substitute that, that we just received a few minutes ago, so we will, we will need for you to, um, detail that for us.

73. 0:38:31

    Yes, sir.

74. 0:38:34

    All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and committee members. I am reading from LC492717S.

75. 0:38:45

    And what is the difference between... Start off, please, tell us the difference-

76. 0:38:48

    Yeah

77. 0:38:48

    ... 'cause I, I read your bill and I'm sure everybody else did, as it was before 10 minutes ago. So tell me what the differ- tell us what the difference is so we can be straight on this.

78. 0:38:56

    Yeah, so this new substitute adds some language that is supported by the president pro tem's office. Uh, under current law, if a municipality or independent school district that operates its own locally funded public school system wants to dissolve that system and join a county school system, right now the bar is set at 25% of qualified voters to get a petition to get it on the ballot, and this just lowers that threshold to 10%, and so that is what is now in the first part of this bill. Um, so it would change that requirement from 25 to 10, uh, and it lowers the barrier to voter participation and encourages civic engagement.

79. 0:39:34

    So please, uh, go back and repeat that for me, please.

80. 0:39:36

    Yeah. So right now, if a school district wants to dissolve and join, for example, a city school district wants to join the-

81. 0:39:43

    A lo- a local, local charter school.

82. 0:39:44

    Right.

83. 0:39:45

    Okay.

84. 0:39:45

    A local school district.

85. 0:39:46

    Okay.

86. 0:39:47

    Yeah, traditional school district.

87. 0:39:48

    Okay.

88. 0:39:48

    If they want to dissolve and join the county school system-

89. 0:39:51

    Oh, okay. Okay. O-

90. 0:39:51

    ... right now the requirement is you have to get 25% of the-

91. 0:39:54

    Okay

92. 0:39:54

    ... electorate to be able to make it on the ballot. This just lowers that dress- threshold to 10%, but the district, the co- county still has to approve that measure via the ballot box.

93. 0:40:07

    So th- this came from the pro tem?

94. 0:40:09

    Yes, sir.

95. 0:40:10

    I imagined that. I think I, I think I knew. I think we all knew the district-

96. 0:40:13

    I let you connect dots

97. 0:40:14

    ... think we know the district-

98. 0:40:15

    Yeah

99. 0:40:15

    ... this refers to.

100. 0:40:17

     Yeah.

101. 0:40:17

     Thank you. Okay, now I'm with you. Okay.

102. 0:40:19

     And, uh, any... Do you want me to go on to the second part of the bill?

103. 0:40:23

     Yes, please.

104. 0:40:23

     So the second part of the bill, uh, is a bill that I brought to address fairness. Um, it's a bipartisan issue, uh, demonstrated, uh, by some changes that have been made in Texas, Colorado, and Washington, DC. Specifically here, this bill will honor the choices of parents that they make for their children, and holds our school districts accountable for using public funds to support-

105. 0:40:44

     Yeah

106. 0:40:44

     ... all public school students. And so what this does is add language, adds language into a code to say that in regards to ESBLAS funding, a local school district shall treat a charter school that is approved by the district no less favorable when they are considering allocation of those E plus, ESBLAS funds. And so this was brought to me because we, uh, have some areas where, you know, we're doing good. Like in APS, uh, $546 million that was approved, $32 million of that have gone, has gone to locally approved, uh, charter schools.

107. 0:41:18

     Uh, but in another metro county, $850 million was approved with $0 going to support locally approved charter schools. And in another, 1.1 billion was approved, and none of that money wa- went to the seven locally approved charter schools out of almost 140 traditional schools in the district. So we have some disparities, and this will help to bring some parity to, uh, local, locally approved charter schools, uh, in these, uh, districts. And with that, I'll-

108. 0:41:49

     No, that's all

109. 0:41:49

     ... answer any questions.

110. 0:41:51

     Senator Dolezal.

111. 0:41:53

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Senator, uh, the pro tem's floor leader.

112. 0:41:57

     I'll take it.

113. 0:41:58

     Thank you for bringing this bill. What does section three do? Is that, uh, uh, just a variant of section two on the ESBLAS funding?

114. 0:42:08

     No. So section three is still regarding the adjustment for the local school districts to be able to join with the, um, county school system. Um, so, uh, it's some cleanup language. You'll see at the bottom, uh, the very end of it, it says, "Including the authority of to levy taxes." Well, that is already a authority of a school district, so that language is no longer necessary. Because you'll see that it says, "If such territory is located and shall enjoy the same privileges, and shall be governed by the same laws as the existing parts of the county school system." So they already have the ability to levy taxes, so that language is no longer needed.

115. 0:42:47

     Gotcha. Do you know... Uh, I wanna talk about the charter stuff for a second, 'cause I got a couple questions on that-

116. 0:42:52

     Yeah

117. 0:42:52

     ... before we do that on this independent, like, uh, essentially dissolving a city school system and rolling it up into the county. How often has that happened in the last 10 or 20 years? And then do you know the impetus to lower the threshold? I, I haven't observed that happen, so I'm kinda curious what happens to the buildings and that kind of thing. But can you, as y- I know that this came somewhat from someb- someone else, but do you know, is this something that is working to achieve a specific goal?

118. 0:43:18

     Uh, I cannot speak to anyone's specific goal. What I can say, it has been done. I know Macon Bibb consolidate- consolidated, uh, in the past. So I don't know. I can't speak to a specific goal or... I, I just think, you know, ultimately what we're doing is making it easier for folks in the community to say, "Hey, this is something that I want us to consider." And it still has to be approved by the overall elected on the ballot, so it's still just making it easier to get it on the ballot.

119. 0:43:46

     Okay. On the charter side-

120. 0:43:48

     Yeah

121. 0:43:48

     ... walk me through s- some specific examples. I, I, I know you gave some examples.

122. 0:43:51

     Mm.

123. 0:43:51

     Let me ask a different question. What is the explanation by these local school boards other than just they feel that charters are comp... Like, what's the, what's the-

124. 0:44:01

     Yeah

125. 0:44:01

     ... sense of why they're not wanting to fund their charters with these ESBLAS dollars?

126. 0:44:04

     I mean, yeah. Yeah, sorry to cut you off, but you have to think about these schools are locally approved, right? So at some point, the school district decided to approve this charter school. Uh, I believe what happens is sometimes politics or ideology gets in the way, and so a new superintendent or a new personnel may come in and not be as favorable to charter schools, and they tend to see them as other versus seeing them as, "Hey, this was a school that was approved by our local school system, and so we should be including them, including them in the decisions that we make as it relates to, you know, doling out, uh, ESBLAS funding."

127. 0:44:36

     One more comment, Mr. Chairman, if it's okay. Um, Senator Kemp, I appreciate your passion for charter schools. I, I... You know, this session seems to have been more people reached out to me about charter schools than my previous seven sessions in the general assembly. And I, I guess more broadly for the committee, I would just say that it seems like these local approvals, which I know you're downstream of the approval in this bill-

128. 0:44:56

     Mm-hmm

129. 0:44:56

     ... but these local approvals essentially are getting more and more difficult. I think the locals have figured out all that we have to do is say no. The state will at some point in time come in and make it a state charter. If the state makes it a state charter, they pay the full freight. We get to keep all the money for our locals. Um, and, and I would like to see, uh, us tackle the challenge of compulsory charter approval at the local level, where they're not getting a free ride off of the state, um, for these kids who are, who are obviously well-served in these charter schools. Um, but right now I think that you've identified one area where they're treated as second-class citizens, but I frankly think they're treated as second-class citizens oftentimes from the very start.

130. 0:45:30

     So, um, I, I, I'm appreciative of what you're getting at here, and hopefully we can do more work as well in the future.

131. 0:45:35

     Great. Thank you.

132. 0:45:38

     Senator Hatchett.

133. 0:45:39

     I see Senator Payne on the-

134. 0:45:40

     I believe, not Hatchett. Oh, Senator Payne. Excuse me, sir.

135. 0:45:44

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, uh, uh, going off of what he just said about local charters versus state charters, and on line 60, that's, um, and I was hoping perhaps counsel could kind of fill us in on this. But that line, you got, "A local school board of education shall treat a local charter school." And is that, uh, definitive? Because you're talking about whether it's a state charter or a local charter, but it just happens to be local in proximity to the school system, right?

136. 0:46:15

     No, sir. So this is specifically for the locally approved charter schools, because we can't require the school districts to give ESBLAS funding to state-approved charter schools because they are not- It would go against the Constitution because-

137. 0:46:29

     Right

138. 0:46:30

     ... tho- those were locally approved. So this is, that's why it's in there. It has to just be for the locally approved charter schools within that school district.

139. 0:46:37

     Okay. Thank you.

140. 0:46:37

     Yeah.

141. 0:46:37

     I just wanted to clarify that.

142. 0:46:38

     Yeah.

143. 0:46:38

     Thank you.

144. 0:46:40

     And of course... Excuse me. Um, my only concern on that is the, is the, the money for ESPLOST right now all goes to the local board of education.

145. 0:46:52

     Mm-hmm.

146. 0:46:53

     The local charter school is owned by the local charter school and not by the local board of education, correct?

147. 0:47:00

     So they're still part of the local school system. They're operated separately.

148. 0:47:05

     Right.

149. 0:47:05

     But that s- that school system is still, the authorizer of that charter school is the local school district. So they have the authority over that school, that charter school. In addition to that, it's only for buildings that are public buildings. So they can't say, "Okay, well, this is a privately owned building. You have to invest in this." This is for the public buildings within that school district that the charter schools occupy. It's saying that, "Hey, you know, if you're going to give funding for, you know, replacing an air conditioner, uh, and you're considering it for some of the other traditional schools, then you should give that same consideration to the charter schools." And a lot of times what's been happening is they've just been totally excluded from the list.

150. 0:47:47

     Even though that local charter school is not owned by the board of education of, of that community.

151. 0:47:53

     Yeah. I, I wanna be careful of not using the word owned. I, I would say operated, because technically, you know, nobody owns a, the charter school. It's-

152. 0:48:01

     Right

153. 0:48:01

     ... you know, the school district has approved that charter school to be under the authorization-

154. 0:48:05

     Mm-hmm

155. 0:48:05

     ... of the local school system. Um, so that school is still within their-

156. 0:48:09

     Mm-hmm

157. 0:48:09

     ... purview of-

158. 0:48:10

     Right

159. 0:48:10

     ... responsibility.

160. 0:48:11

     And those are still obviously students of that county, no matter whether they're in the public school system or local school. They're still citizens and students of the county. Okay.

161. 0:48:20

     That's absolutely right. Yes, sir.

162. 0:48:21

     Um, we're gonna go all the way to the end. Senator Sims.

163. 0:48:25

     Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. My first question would be, are the local charter scho- charter schools subjected to the same rules and regulations as the state charter school, i- including test reporting and other data that the, um, other charter school, the, the local charter school would be responsible for? What is the difference?

164. 0:48:57

     Yeah. So the only difference is who their authorizer is. So for local, locally approved charter schools, for example, APS. APS would be the authorizer, and so they're, they're overseeing to ensure that the charter schools are, you know, abiding by their charter and have some success. They get to decide if that school remains open, if they are renewed. Um, they still have to do the same reporting requirements and same testing as the state charter schools. It's just with the state charter schools, it's the State Charter Schools Commission that is making those, um, decisions.

165. 0:49:31

     Thank you.

166. 0:49:31

     Mm-hmm.

167. 0:49:33

     Thank you. Senator Bearden.

168. 0:49:37

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, just have a couple questions. Going back to line 18. But before I hit that, let me ask you, you mentioned Macon-Bibb consolidated.

169. 0:49:47

     Yeah.

170. 0:49:48

     Do you know when that was?

171. 0:49:49

     I do not know. Do not know.

172. 0:49:50

     Do you know if that was by local legislation?

173. 0:49:52

     I cannot remember. I don't know.

174. 0:49:54

     Because when you look at line 18, and maybe I'm misreading this, and please correct me if I'm wrong. When you get to the struck out language, it says, "Whenever..." Let's read the struck out portion. "Citizens of a municipality or," then you got your new language, "independent school system." So it seems like at current law, it was either the citizens or the school district, and now we're taking out, it's just going to the, uh, citizens only.

175. 0:50:20

     Yeah, so it's saying the qualified voters of that territory included in the school system.

176. 0:50:25

     So, so the-

177. 0:50:26

     So still the voters. It has to be 10% of the voters.

178. 0:50:30

     So if a independent school district wanted to join the county school system, what would that look like?

179. 0:50:37

     I'm sorry, say that again.

180. 0:50:38

     If a independent school district wanted to be part of the county school system, what's in place currently?

181. 0:50:44

     So it would be 10% of the qualified, qualified voters in that county that have to make that decision.

182. 0:50:52

     Under the new, under the new language.

183. 0:50:53

     Under the new language. Yes. Yep.

184. 0:50:57

     Okay. Thank you.

185. 0:50:59

     Thank you. We're gonna go all the way to the other side. Senator James.

186. 0:51:04

     Mr. Chairman, uh, at the appropriate time, I'd like to offer a due pass.

187. 0:51:09

     Thank you.

188. 0:51:12

     Any other questions concerning this bill from the author?

189. 0:51:19

     So we got a motion from Senator James-

190. 0:51:22

     Yes

191. 0:51:22

     ... to due pass. Do I have a second?

192. 0:51:28

     Second.

193. 0:51:28

     Second from Senator Dixon. And looks like we got some questions from Senator, Senator Bearden before we go further.

194. 0:51:35

     Appropriate time, I would like to make an amendment.

195. 0:51:38

     Say that again please, sir.

196. 0:51:39

     I'd like to make an amendment-

197. 0:51:40

     Okay

198. 0:51:40

     ... at the appropriate time.

199. 0:51:41

     Okay.

200. 0:51:45

     Okay. Um, go with it.

201. 0:51:50

     Just not real comfortable with the sections one, two, and three, so my amendment leads to strike sections one, two, and three of the bill.

202. 0:51:57

     What?

203. 0:51:58

     Strike sections one, two, and three of the bill.

204. 0:52:04

     I'm just not comfortable with this independent school system being replaced like that.

205. 0:52:08

     I think that section two is that. Section two is the ESPLOST.

206. 0:52:11

     Okay.

207. 0:52:11

     Are you saying strike the whole section two?

208. 0:52:15

     Of section-

209. 0:52:15

     I think you are section, strike sections one-

210. 0:52:17

     Okay. One and three, I'm sorry.

211. 0:52:20

     One and three.

212. 0:52:20

     It's two dealt with ESPLOST. Thank you. Chairman, that was all.

213. 0:52:25

     Strike section one-

214. 0:52:26

     One and three

215. 0:52:27

     ... and three of the bill

216. 0:52:32

     It's still two also, if that's what you're trying to do.

217. 0:52:34

     Leave it two.

218. 0:52:35

     You're fine with two?

219. 0:52:37

     Two.

220. 0:52:38

     I'll second for discussion.

221. 0:52:41

     So section one-

222. 0:52:43

     Yeah, I won't

223. 0:52:43

     ... as I understand, was the sub- mainly the substitute that you brought, correct?

224. 0:52:48

     That's right.

225. 0:52:51

     And section three.

226. 0:53:02

     Section three is part of the substitute also?

227. 0:53:07

     One, two and three.

228. 0:53:07

     One and three is part of substitute, correct?

229. 0:53:10

     It's one, two, and three.

230. 0:53:11

     One, two, and three.

231. 0:53:14

     Mr. Chairman,

232. 0:53:15

     Yeah.

233. 0:53:15

     I'll have a little bit of side conversation here, but yes, after further review, one, two, and three.

234. 0:53:23

     So then that takes it back to the original bill.

235. 0:53:26

     Correct.

236. 0:53:27

     Is that correct?

237. 0:53:38

     Okay.

238. 0:53:43

     I wish I'd known a little later, right?

239. 0:53:47

     Um.

240. 0:53:48

     Why would you thank him for that?

241. 0:53:49

     So back with your-

242. 0:53:50

     Yeah. Okay. Go on.

243. 0:53:54

     I said, "He heard me say that?"

244. 0:53:56

     Okay, let's see. I have some discussion from... Can we take the discussion?

245. 0:54:03

     I've got a question for Matt.

246. 0:54:04

     Okay, let's go back to, I think Senator Steele may have been ahead of you, so let me go to Senator Steele first. Oh, you, you were not. Oh, who's, who's left?

247. 0:54:13

     That was me.

248. 0:54:14

     Oh, I'm sorry.

249. 0:54:14

     That was me.

250. 0:54:15

     Yes, ma'am.

251. 0:54:15

     But I was moving on to a different amendment, so if we wanna finish up with this one-

252. 0:54:19

     I'd love to finish-

253. 0:54:20

     ... then come back to me.

254. 0:54:20

     So we can finish on this first.

255. 0:54:21

     Thank you.

256. 0:54:22

     So go back to Senator Bearden. You're talking about section one, section two-

257. 0:54:28

     Three

258. 0:54:28

     ... and section three, which goes back to what we first had when we first came in the room.

259. 0:54:33

     Mm-hmm.

260. 0:54:33

     Correct.

261. 0:54:34

     Okay.

262. 0:54:37

     Can I ask a question?

263. 0:54:38

     Hold on just a...

264. 0:54:38

     I'm sorry.

265. 0:54:38

     Okay. And I think we had a question from, uh, Senator Dolezal.

266. 0:54:44

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I- to the author, I just wanna make sure we understand what all we're striking here, so let me say it in my words, and you tell me if I'm correct.

267. 0:54:51

     Mm-hmm.

268. 0:54:51

     Under current law, if a city school s- if, if a city school system had voters that wanted to s- to dissolve the city school system, and it's, and then by default, that those students would then enroll in the county school system-

269. 0:55:04

     Yeah

270. 0:55:04

     ... you need to get a 25 per- you need to get a referendum with signatures from 25% of eligible voters in the independent school district's attendance zone.

271. 0:55:12

     That's right.

272. 0:55:12

     This would change that to 10%.

273. 0:55:14

     That's right.

274. 0:55:15

     Walk it, so I get, I think we all get that. So it's essentially making it easier to get it on the ballot to dissolve a city school system or an i- independent school system.

275. 0:55:23

     That's right.

276. 0:55:26

     If you don't mind, I know you've, we've talked about this, but can you tell us again what sections two and three do? I know that it's, it, it's kind of flows downstream of that decision. Is that accurate? If that lever is pulled.

277. 0:55:38

     I'm sorry, say that again.

278. 0:55:38

     Is that, are, are sections two and three related to section one, and if so, how?

279. 0:55:42

     Yeah, and so I would actually turn to legislative counsel to give me some explanation on the legalese, uh, for this, uh, just simply trying to accomplish the goal of lowering the threshold from 25% to 10%. So I would ask for legislative counsel to give some, you know, clarity on that. But do want to remind, this is supported by the president pro tempore.

280. 0:56:04

     Oh. Number six.

281. 0:56:08

     I think section two and three just clarify what happens if a school is moved from a city to a county in an election. It, it just cleans up what occurs.

282. 0:56:25

     Okay.

283. 0:56:25

     So can you pass two and three without one? Yes. If we pass two and three without one, then if a city school goes to a county school based on the old system with 25%, two and three are still applicable 'cause it just references that code section.

284. 0:56:41

     Great. Mr. Chair, I've got one more question for the author, if that's okay.

285. 0:56:44

     Uh, yes, sir.

286. 0:56:45

     And this is on your section four.

287. 0:56:47

     Okay.

288. 0:56:48

     It's my understanding, I've been texting with some charter school experts in the room.

289. 0:56:52

     Yeah. Yeah.

290. 0:56:53

     It's my understanding that you can have a state charter that has a local attendance zone, and I believe the way that that's triggered is if a local charter is denied, and then the petitioner goes and tries to get it as a state charter, then it becomes a state charter that sits within a local attendance zone, as opposed to someone who applies for a state charter with a statewide attendance zone. I don't wanna make the change here. I would ask you to think about when this bill makes it to the floor, if we want to capture those state charters that have a local attendance zone in your leveling of the playing field that you're doing in your bill.

291. 0:57:23

     So think about a state charter that's functionally a local charter. I don't think your bill currently captures them. You may or may not want to. I'm just putting that out there for discussion.

292. 0:57:31

     It doesn't, because my understanding is that we cannot then require the local school district to provide E-bus funding to a s- a state approved school, even though it does have that local attendance zone. I would need to check with legislative counsel on that. But my understanding is that we can't do that, and that's why it's not in here.

293. 0:57:47

     Got it. Let's bring a bill just to make all these things local then. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

294. 0:57:50

     Yes, sir. We, um, we have another bill-

295. 0:57:54

     Yeah

296. 0:57:54

     ... that needs to be presented. So what I'm gonna ask is, 'cause there is some confusion on this, especially-

297. 0:58:00

     Mm-hmm

298. 0:58:00

     ... and, and of course I understand where the amendments are coming from, and I understand the reason for the amendments. So I, we got another meeting. Our last meeting will be tomorrow-

299. 0:58:09

     Mm-hmm

300. 0:58:09

     ... at 2:00. So I'm gonna ask you to work with the appropriate people on the amendment and all and, and then come back-

301. 0:58:15

     Yeah

302. 0:58:15

     ... come back to us again tomorrow.

303. 0:58:17

     Yeah.

304. 0:58:17

     Okay?

305. 0:58:19

     It's fine.

306. 0:58:19

     Yes, ma'am.

307. 0:58:19

     Can, can I just mention the amendment that I was gonna ask for?

308. 0:58:22

     Oh, yeah, I'm sorry. I'm sorry.

309. 0:58:23

     Which is-

310. 0:58:24

     Yeah, I'm sorry

311. 0:58:24

     ... maybe kind of similar.

312. 0:58:25

     I'm sorry.

313. 0:58:26

     I, I was gonna go back to line 60, where it just says, "Shall treat a local charter school," to say locally approved.

314. 0:58:34

     Yeah.

315. 0:58:34

     So we, we can work on that language too.

316. 0:58:36

     No, that's fine. Yeah.

317. 0:58:36

     But I wanted to make sure that-

318. 0:58:37

     Hmm

319. 0:58:37

     ... we captured that it was locally approved-

320. 0:58:40

     Yeah

321. 0:58:40

     ... charter schools-

322. 0:58:41

     Yeah, I'm fine

323. 0:58:41

     ... from that local school system.

324. 0:58:43

     Yeah.

325. 0:58:43

     Thank you, Mr. Chair.

326. 0:58:44

     Yeah. Thank you. And remind you, okay, we got, um, Senator Dixon coming up, but, uh, remind you that we will meet again tomorrow- Yeah ... at 2:00, and you'll be on the agenda- Yep ... for tomorrow. Okay. Cool. Sounds good. I'll wait. Oh, Senator James, you wanna rescind your motion?

327. 0:59:01

     Uh, yes.

328. 0:59:02

     Yes.

329. 0:59:03

     I do rescind my motion. Uh, but I really wanted to know why we couldn't just send it and let it be moving to make one change.

330. 0:59:13

     Well, I think there's some confusion on, on the amendments, and I wanna make sure that everybody on this committee understands fully what we're dealing with, rather than just, you know, an amendment came in at the last minute.

331. 0:59:23

     Yeah.

332. 0:59:24

     And, and so-

333. 0:59:25

     Well, I'd like to ask, um, if you think that if we do look at it tomorrow, that it can pass.

334. 0:59:34

     I'll, I would love to get it passed. I, 'cause I've, I've, I've-

335. 0:59:37

     Is it enough time?

336. 0:59:38

     Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. Yeah. And tomorrow will be our last meeting. If we can get it worked out, and you got- Yeah ... 24 hours. Yeah, I'm fine with- 124 hours ... waiting till tomorrow, 'cause we can talk- Okay ... to some of the members- Okay ... to get some clarity on- Good ... the amendment. Thank you, sir. Yeah. Yeah. We appreciate it. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for... You did a good job. Yeah. Thank you. Um, our next bill is, um, Senate Bill 497, Senator Dixon.

337. 1:00:02

     And we did have some people signed up to, um, speak on 475, and, um, we'll, we'll ask you to please come back tomorrow. Senator Dixon, please, uh, tell us the bill number and the, uh, LC number.

338. 1:00:14

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Senate Bill 497, working off of LC 499009.

339. 1:00:29

     The floor is yours, sir.

340. 1:00:31

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, this bill, uh, we're calling it the, the Parent's Bill of Rights. Uh, it's one of Lieutenant Governor Burt Jones' uh, priorities. Um, and it's to ensure parents are notified when their minor child seeks non-instructional medical, nursing, or therapeutic counseling services. Therapeutic services are defined as those focused primarily on mental and emotional health, uh, not academics.

341. 1:01:01

     Section one of the bill, um, it amends OCGA, uh, 20-2-786 to create the Parent's Bill of Rights. Uh, it affirms that parents have the right to direct the upbringing of their children, and important information, uh, relating to the child should not be withheld from their parents. It creates a pathway for parents to appeal to a local board of education if a principal or superintendent denies a parent's request, uh, for information on their child or does not respond within 30 days.

342. 1:01:38

     It also requires schools to document each time an employee, teacher, nurse, or counselor provides non-instructional services to a student that become a part of the student's record. It requires written notification to the parents within 48 hours of a student, uh, being provided that service. Uh, a very important part of the bill, uh, in section one, employees acting in good faith to provide written notification in cases where a student is to believed to be in immediate danger of self-harm, harm to others, or there's suspected child abuse.

343. 1:02:16

     Uh, in these cases, uh, the parents would not be notified because it would be in the protection of the child. Uh, and in these cases, the, uh, employee, teacher, or, or, um, counselor, uh, would need to provide written, uh, notification to the principal within 12 hours. Section two makes the bill effective upon the governor's signature, and section three just repeals any conflicting laws. Uh, with that, Mr.

344. 1:02:46

     Chairman, I'd be happy to answer any questions.

345. 1:02:53

     I think everybody's still thinking about a previous bill.

346. 1:02:59

     I believe you're right, Mr. Chairman.

347. 1:02:59

     We apologize for not... Senator Kemp had all of our attention. Um,

348. 1:03:09

     Senator Hatchett?

349. 1:03:10

     Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, to the author. Would this require notification if a kid went to the nurse for, like, a splinter or just needed a Band-Aid or something like that? 'Cause I think the definition here is pretty broad. And I'm not saying I'd be for that or against it, but I'm just curious if that was the intent, to capture those minor trips to the nurse's office.

350. 1:03:38

     No, that would not be the intent.

351. 1:03:40

     Okay.

352. 1:03:47

     So I guess, or s- I guess my concern is some of these children, and you can... I'm, I'm sure you've cleared this up, some of these children may not have anybody else to talk to but that particular person at school. They may not have a parent that's cooperative. Is that... I- is there anything to k- to protect that... I don't, I don't... not to protect the child, but I, I, I know you said there's sexual abuse and all that, it's not the case. Is there anything else to protect the child, and if they don't have anybody else to talk to?

353. 1:04:18

     Yeah, it, you know, it does state in there, you know, it goes into, you know, if it's self-harm, harm to others, uh, suspected child abuse, um, but then also suspected danger to the child if notification was provided to a parent.

354. 1:04:33

     Okay. Thank you.

355. 1:04:34

     Yes, sir.

356. 1:04:35

     Any other questions or concerns? Um, seeing that we got a couple people wanting to speak up, speak on it, um, so Ms. Darlene Lynch

357. 1:04:53

     And then Mr. Roland Behm

358. 1:04:57

     Behm like Baum

359. 1:04:58

     Okay. Okay. Thanks, sir.

360. 1:05:00

     Thank you, Chairman. And thank you, Committee. Um, my name's Darlene Lynch. I'm the legal and policy director at Georgia Appleseed Center for Law and Justice. Um, Appleseed is a 20-year-old nonprofit law center that works across the state to ensure every child has a safe and supportive school environment. This year, we have served 200, uh, more than 200 parents from 60 plus counties who have sought help getting their children the school supports that they need. Um, as a parent and someone who works with parents every day, I appreciate the intent behind this bill, but I'm here because I think in its current form it actually could infringe, not protect parents' rights in really significant ways.

361. 1:05:47

     Um, non-instructional services include medical, nursing, and therapeutic counseling. This bill moves a child's otherwise private counseling and health records into the school's education file. Records in that file do not have HIPAA protection. They become property of the school, and they can be accessed by any school teacher or certain school teachers and staff over the entire course of the child's school career. And we know from last year's HB 268 that those, those records get transferred from school to school to school.

362. 1:06:22

     So I, I really don't imagine any parent or child who would wanna take advantage of school-based services if they knew their records would no longer be private among the family and the clinician, but would belong to the school and that school employees could view their files at any time. So this body has worked really hard to bring mental health and medical services into the schools in order to identify and address problems early before they become serious for the child or a safety issue for the school.

363. 1:06:56

     Um, we've seen mental health grants, the APEX programs, school-based health centers, and telehealth, which is a lifeline in the rural areas. Under this bill as written, private telehealth sessions where a school counselor connects a child and a parent to a clinician online would be put in the education file. Sessions with APEX and school-based health center providers, which already require parental consent, will go in the school file. Because SB 497 is written broadly enough to cover situations where schools contract with outside clinicians to provide services on behalf of their students, and that language is at lines 156 to 160.

364. 1:07:41

     In 2024, 20,000 Georgia sixth graders reported seriously considering harming themselves, and 11,000 considered suicide. If one of them had confided in someone at school, a record of that conversation would follow that child until she graduates or leaves the state, and there would be nothing a parent could do to protect their child's privacy. Indeed, this bill doesn't give parents a right to know when school staff access their child's non-instructional files.

365. 1:08:11

     So while we appreciate the intent of the bill, we believe it has serious unintended consequences, including on parents' rights to protect the wellbeing of their children, and we urge you to vote no.

366. 1:08:21

     Thank you. Thank you, ma'am.

367. 1:08:25

     Mr. Roland?

368. 1:08:37

     Good morning, Chairman Hickman and members of the committee. My name is Roland Behm. Uh, I volunteer and served as past president, uh, of the Georgia chapter of the American Foundation for Suicide Prevention. And, uh, I just wanted to take this opportunity to express some concerns over the bill as currently drafted. Georgia's Constitution is clear. Protection of the persons is the paramount duty of government. Georgia's child welfare system exists because we know a difficult reality.

369. 1:09:08

     For some children, home is not the safest place. Schools need enough flexibility to protect those childrens before a rigid notification rule unintentionally turns a cry for help into a dangerous escalation. Schools are often the only institution that sees a child on an almost daily basis. They are the front line for disclosures of self-harm, abuse, coercion, and mental health crises. Research on school connectedness shows that even one trusted adult in school is one of the strongest protective factors for student wellbeing, help-seeking, and violence prevention.

370. 1:09:48

     The challenge is that schools do not know every student's home situation in advance. Often, the conversation itself is the first warning sign that something may be wrong. For most families, parental involvement is appropriate and beneficial. The issue is what happens in cases where notification increases risks, where there is a fear of retaliation, intimidation, or escalating conflict at home. In those situations, narrowing confidentiality at the front end may shut down the only safe path the child has to seek help.

371. 1:10:24

     There's also a broader school safety concern. When non-academic conversations trigger reporting requirements, staff may become more hesitant to engage in quick stabilizing check-ins that often prevent a crisis. Students may speak less. Adults may intervene later. Warning signs are missed, conflicts escalate, and problems surface in more serious crisis-driven forms. That makes schools less safe for everyone in the building, and it is in tension with the General Assembly's recent school safety efforts focused on prevention, early identification of risk, reporting pathways, and faster intervention.

372. 1:11:07

     This is not a parents versus schools. It is whether we preserve a safe first point of contact for vulnerable children. Mr. Chairman, thank you.

373. 1:11:17

     Thank you, sir. Thank you for your time. Okay. We've heard, heard author. We've heard people speaking, uh, for the bill, uh, on the bill. So I guess now we would entertain a motion on the bill or anybody.

374. 1:11:36

     Move to pass, Mr. Chairman.

375. 1:11:38

     Who, who said that? Oh, Senator Dozall, do pass.

376. 1:11:42

     I'll second.

377. 1:11:43

     Second by Senator Payne. Okay. Any further discussion? Seeing none, all in favor of the bill, raise your right hand.

378. 1:11:57

     You got it?

379. 1:12:00

     Mm-hmm.

380. 1:12:00

     The, what was count?

381. 1:12:04

     Seven.

382. 1:12:05

     Okay. Bill passes. Thank you, sir. Appreciate your time.

383. 1:12:09

     You didn't, you didn't-

384. 1:12:10

     You gotta excuse me.

385. 1:12:12

     Do I now?

386. 1:12:15

     Yeah. Did y'all vote no?

387. 1:12:18

     Yeah.

388. 1:12:18

     Yeah.

389. 1:12:19

     Yeah. Thank y'all for your time. We will again, as I stated earlier, we'll meet tomorrow at 2:00 for our last meeting before crossover. Thank y'all.