Comité Banking and Financial Institutions del Senado, 24 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

305 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:03:56

   This is the Gold Rush Committee here, and we're glad to be here. And, uh, we understand that, you know, that, that, uh, the last time we had one of our senators present something, he said he had a coin for everybody. Y'all remember that little $5,000 coin? We're gonna put those on display today. We're gonna move th- and we're go- uh, we're gonna talk about this bill. Now, we've already had a hearing on this bill, so all those people listening out there in cyber world, there's no way I'm gonna be able to get to all of you all. There's too many signed up, uh, and we can't be here 'cause we got another committee right behind this one, and we got another committee right behind that one, till 5:00 this afternoon, and then it goes on till 6:00.

2. 0:04:29

   So where we're at here is, is I'm gonna ask, uh, Senator Harbin if he will to go up to the, uh, front there.

3. 0:04:34

   I'll stand up.

4. 0:04:35

   And you wanna come back and take your seat-

5. 0:04:36

   Yeah

6. 0:04:36

   ... and ask questions, you're welcome to.

7. 0:04:38

   Yeah.

8. 0:04:38

   Okay? And then I want you to bring us up to date, 'cause we had a hearing, and I'm gonna put you on number two right there in the middle. And anything you've got that you wanna add to, from, or the above, this is your chance to bring on in before we bring anybody in to- And y- I think you mentioned to me you had a two-minute video of someone you wanted to-

9. 0:04:56

   Well, ti- time-wise, we'll, we'll use the time. I don't know if it's as beneficial.

10. 0:05:01

    Okay.

11. 0:05:01

    We're good.

12. 0:05:01

    Okay, good. I think that works well as far as that. But, uh, thank you, Mr.-

13. 0:05:05

    The floor is, the floor is yours. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that. Thank you for your, your, your courtesy and your willingness to hear, uh, an idea I think that is, um, really, it's a constitutional issue. It's a s- it's an issue that's, uh, in multiple states already, uh, Florida, Arkansas, Texas, and, and Uta- uh, Utah, and Louisiana we mentioned as far as that. It's constitutional under Article 1, Section 10, which allows the states to declare gold and silver as legal tender, and it can be used for debt or payment of, of, and fees and obligations.

14. 0:05:37

    Uh, I think the thing that we talked about is we've lost, we lose value, and, and it's a, it's a commodity as far as that portion, but has 6,000 years of history. Uh, it has kept up with the S&P over the last 10 years, uh, as far as the, the portions that are there. But what it does, this transactional part with the fintech te- side to it allows a person that could not normally participate to participate in small denominations. They could put $50 or $25 or whatever they wanted to put in, and they can buy gold.

15. 0:06:10

    But they also have access with it, uh, my coin you talked about that I have with me. Uh, I ca- I can't spend it. I would have to go to a broker. I would have to pay the broker for that, and so it would make, it makes it hard to be able to spend that, that, that which I have as far as that portion. So this bill really kinda is economic freedom for, for people that could not participate in the process. Um, it's like any other commodity, if you will, that can go up and down. It's there. It also, if you look at, uh, lines 38, um, and it says this, is that, "The state shall not constitute transactional gold and silver as central bank digital currency, nor use transactional gold and silver as a mechanism to survey social credit scoring or behavioral conditioning." And, and what you see is this, is that it does not allo- it, it's Georgia-owned rather than, or Georgia-controlled rather than federal control.

16. 0:07:03

    It's a state. And always remember this, that the states created the federal government. The federal government did not create the states. Um, we, we talked about the depositories, what we're using right now. We have talked to Brinks. We would put this out on an RFP, but Brinks is one of the vendors we've talked to that would store the gold, uh, and that would be paid for by the, by the person who's storing it. They get a, a fee monthly. They would pay for that. Uh, we talked about the commission. That would be, uh, headed up by the treasurer, an appointment from the, one appointment from the governor, two from the Senate, and two from the House of Representatives as far as that.

17. 0:07:38

    Uh, w- and we, we would also have an electronic payment system, which what we've shown or what we've had out has been someone like Glint, uh, is already operational. They've got over a quarter of a million, uh, people already w- working, but they're in England, and, uh, I like my g- would like my gold here in Georgia and like it to be constitutional in its nature. Um, I think this is that, it's, it's another way to pay. It opens the doors for, for new business really here in Georgia that we would be also a, uh, a place that we could, how do you say, transact business in, in gold and silver.

18. 0:08:14

    And that would bring, I believe, jobs, and it would also bring business to the state that would not normally be there. Um, the, there's no cost. There's also a, a fiscal note, too, uh, in the file that's in your file. There's no cost that's seen as far as what's going on to put it, put it together, and then the fees would be paid by the users themselves. Um, I think it's a phenomenal way to pay, and it also opens the door for us to use fintech tech- technology that we're not using currently to have an asset that is an asset that has 6,000 years of history to it, and it makes it where every American that wants to could participate in it regardless of their economic positions pretty much.

19. 0:08:55

    It does not have a barrier in that respect, and that's why I think it's ab- ab- absolutely good for economic freedom for everybody.

20. 0:09:03

    Okay, let's reiterate just a moment here now. Let's make sure we understand this, so we all wanna put it on the record here since today I'll probably, uh, taking a vote. There will be no cost to the Geo- to the state of Georgia with this bill.

21. 0:09:14

    That's what the, it, we have a, if, in your file, you should have a copy of the, uh, fiscal note that has no cost to the state.

22. 0:09:24

    Right.

23. 0:09:24

    And that is, um, there because that's gonna be paid for mainly by the, um, parts, the treasurer's department said they believe that they could set up the RFPs without really any, uh, additional staff, things of that nature.

24. 0:09:40

    And in your own words, the reason we need this bill is why?

25. 0:09:43

    The reason we need this bill is why is because we need to be able to own an asset that has a, a, a, a value that can st- that's a stable, it's a stable value. It's a store of value that we do not have in our current currency. We're having inflation. You know, we've been talking about affordability. That's a big word that's been used is affordability, affordability. But what do you do, and I said this Inflation is the carbon monoxide that you don't see, taste, or smell. And when you go into a restaurant and you used to be able to spend $20 and buy a meal and no longer can buy a meal, you are experiencing fl- inflation.

26. 0:10:23

    Gold and silver have been hedges against inflation from that standpoint, and so it gives the average individual, the average Georg- Georgian, the ability to own something without a lot of sophistication and without having to qualify. I think it's just another way to pay with an asset that has 6,000 years of history to it.

27. 0:10:42

    And you're currently using an asset at that level right now. You're currently-

28. 0:10:46

    I have p- physical gold that I own, and then I also have a Glenn account that I can go to Chick-fil-A and I can buy my meal. I had a client the other day, I was with him, I said, "You wanna see me buy this with gold?" And the lady, I said, "Can I pay gold with this?" And she says, "What?" I took my Mastercard, swiped it through, it was approved. I could look at my app and see that that charge had been taken out in a fractional side of my gold. Uh, not the whole thing, just a fraction, if you will.

29. 0:11:13

    Okay, to follow up to that question then, and I'll, and I'll turn it over to committee after this.

30. 0:11:17

    Yeah.

31. 0:11:17

    Make sure you walk through the taxes, how the state receives the, the, the tax umbrella.

32. 0:11:22

    Okay. If we declare this as legal tender, that means that the increase in value, if I buy it at 3,000 and it's 5,000, I would not pay tax on that addition as far as that. The state, though, would pick up sales tax as I spend it, 'cause if I, just like when I bought something at Chick-fil-A, there's a sales tax that was paid through that process. So there's sales tax there. They would lose some capital gains that's there because it's being d- declared as legal tender from that standpoint.

33. 0:11:55

    If you were on an international basis, the dollar goes up and down against, like, the euro, and so there's, you can, there's times that are there that it goes up, it goes down. But this would not charge the individual when he s- he sells his gold or, uh, spends it through the app, a capital gains, because it's gonna be declared as legal tender.

34. 0:12:17

    Be treated like a dollar.

35. 0:12:19

    Dollar, yeah.

36. 0:12:19

    Be treated like regular currency.

37. 0:12:20

    Right.

38. 0:12:21

    Which it is regular currency.

39. 0:12:22

    It would be declared as regular currency, correct.

40. 0:12:25

    Questions from the committee before we open it up? That went by anybody? We're good?

41. 0:12:30

    I have one.

42. 0:12:31

    Oh, what number are you, boss?

43. 0:12:33

    10.

44. 0:12:34

    Recognize Senator Jones. Go ahead.

45. 0:12:37

    And thank you, Mr. Chairman, and Senator, thank you for bringing this bill. I've been trying to, you know, wrap my head around it. What I'm concerned f- about is that if you could just expand on how all of these transactions would recur, who are the vendors that would benefit from these transaction costs?

46. 0:12:57

    Well, what would happen first, we would do an RFP from the, from the committee that would be done, and we would choose, and it, and the bill allows for multiple vendors. It could be a Brinks, it could be a, uh, someone who has storage capacity. It could be a bank, technically, if, if they have capacity to store it, and that w- is where someone could take their gold and store their gold, and it would be there that it would be held safely. We'd make sure that they had adequate insurance, and that we've already talked to them about, that they do have in place.

47. 0:13:27

    Then you would be responsible to pay a rental fee, so there would be a fee to whatever organization we choose or is chose, it could be multiple, that would pay a fee to store that gold there. If you wanted your gold, you could go there. You could walk up and say, "I wanna b- get my gold," and they would hand that gold to you. The transactional part is, again, of an RFP, where we would ask for people to bid, and providing the service that they would be able to provide a transactional gold, just like a credit card or a debit card you have today.

48. 0:14:01

    You have credit cards and you have debit cards that are tied directly to accounts, if you will. And so there would be a fee that would be involved there. Now, one of the things that could happen is the state could actually have a piece of the f- uh, you know, a piece of, a fee. That could be another way that, uh, if the state wanted to do that or that committee wanted to do that, they could have a, a, a fee as part of the storage fee or the part of the transaction fee from that standpoint.

49. 0:14:29

    And who pay, uh, who pays those fees?

50. 0:14:32

    You as the individual, just like on a, well, on a, on a vendor, if I take my card to Chick-fil-A, I'm gonna use them there, you can tell I eat there a lot, but I put my card in, the, the vendor always pays the fee on that side. Um, and that's what, who would pay the fee on the card on the transactional side. The storage fee would be paid for by the owner of the gold or silver that was there.

51. 0:14:59

    And do you know or can you tell us what those fees would be comparatively to some of the other transaction costs on a typical Visa card, as an example?

52. 0:15:10

    As a general rule from what we are seeing, and this is, again, um, and, and we're, we're build- the rules are being built in other states as well, but if you think about it this way, cr- a credit card has credit risk to it. This card would have no credit risk to it because it's backed by gold. And so it would be more like a debit card against a, a, a, an account that's a debit card driven, if you will. So there v- should be a lower fee, and that would be part of our RFP is to ask, here's what this is if you're charging for credit, but maybe you should charge a lesser fee, is what I would negotiate, because there's not a credit risk involved.

53. 0:15:50

    And I mean, you understand credit risk. Um, just like anything else, I would rather have it backed by gold than backed by credit, and therefore my fee structure should be less.

54. 0:16:03

    Um, just one follow-up, Mr. Chairman.

55. 0:16:07

    Sure.

56. 0:16:07

    On a typical credit, uh, Visa or MasterCard, there's fees associated with that. I'm trying to figure out where would these, where would these monies go, these fees? Who's c- who's actually collecting the monies? What organization out there controls this process?

57. 0:16:25

    It could be any of our MasterCa- the, for instance, the card that I currently carry with Glint is a Mastercard, and so the fees go through that bank as far as the fees that are for that transaction. And the vendor pays for those f- fees via a Mastercard agreement. So if I come, I could come to your business, I could take that and pay for my servicing. You, you pay the fee at that end.

58. 0:16:55

    I would pay a fee for the storage of my gold, but you would pay the fee just like you do now for a regular credit card in that respect. I think the fees may be lower as we bid it out, and that's what the RFPs would be about, because it's a... It's not a credit transaction, it's really a debit transaction against an asset, if that makes sense.

59. 0:17:16

    And you said the fees may be lower, so you really don't know what the fees are.

60. 0:17:19

    Don't, don't know the... I don't think they're gonna be any higher than what we are in, in a current credit card situation, because we're dealing with credit. I would think that when we bid this out through the RFP, one of the things that would be my argument is that you're, you're doing this with an asset backed, just like it's easier to borrow money from a bank when you have cash on cash versus cash on credit.

61. 0:17:44

    Mm-hmm.

62. 0:17:45

    Other ones too, when I was having them, I loved them.

63. 0:17:48

    I agree.

64. 0:17:50

    There's other states out there doing this. Those other states are paying those fees. There's other entities involved. There's other transactions that occur. Considering that you're asking Georgia to get involved in this, it would appear to me that you should know exactly what those fees are and who's paying them and how much.

65. 0:18:03

    Well, what we're doing right-

66. 0:18:04

    So you could determine whether or not this process you're trying to set up is even comparable to that of a Visa or Mastercard.

67. 0:18:11

    Right. What we're asking the State of Georgia to do is not to be, to be an overseer like we- they are oversee other things, not to collect money.

68. 0:18:20

    I'm concerned about the fees being paid, so I'm just trying to figure out who is gonna be collecting all this money from these transaction costs. I'm sorry.

69. 0:18:28

    Right.

70. 0:18:29

    And, and, and other states have already done it, so you should have some history about how and how much those fees have been from the other states rather than we think it's gonna be lower or it possibly-

71. 0:18:39

    Right, right

72. 0:18:39

    ... could be the same or even less.

73. 0:18:42

    States are, the states have passed the legislation. For instance, Florida and Arkansas and Louisiana have passed the law that is in place. They are in, right now they are in process of building their rules and regs and also doing their RFPs as far as that portion. So I don't have those numbers from those particular states as far as that portion. But the vendor would pay for the, for the fees for the credit card, but then the storage is, is a storage. Now, there is a storage facility operational.

74. 0:19:12

    It's, and the Texas depository has been up and running for the last three or four years, and they charge a fee to store gold there, and that's operational. They just have gotten the last legislation, and the Texas meets every two years, so it's a little bit different there, uh, in their legislature, sl- legislation. So what they're doing is they are in the process to do the transactional side. They have the storage capability, and they're working on transactional. Uh, much like you tie Visa cards to stock accounts or to money m- money accounts, this would be tied to the gold account.

75. 0:19:48

    Okay.

76. 0:19:49

    Mr. Chairman, do, does this... A credit card, if, if I lose, for example, if I'm, I'm hacked or whatever, and I dispute a $1,000 charge on my credit card, the credit card company eats it. I mean, that's, that's one of the things-

77. 0:20:03

    Right

78. 0:20:03

    ... the beauty of it, 'cause I didn't make that charge, it was eaten. How does it work on this right here?

79. 0:20:08

    See, the interesting, you la- asked that last night. I, I was with a friend who has the card. He opened up... He couldn't find his gold card as we were eating dinner. He went in and he pushed a button and froze his account totally, and his account was froze. There's a limit to this in that I don't have the, the, the dollar amount, but there's a limit just like anything else on the card, but he had the ability to i- instantly lock his account. In fact, the screen shows up in a frosty capa- capability, and that's just one vendor, uh, from that standpoint.

80. 0:20:38

    The FinTech world is learning how, whether it's Zelle, whether it's... We're, we're transferring money in ways we've never transferred it before, and this is just really tying it to the gold account.

81. 0:20:48

    Would that vendor, though, and to follow what Senator Emanuel was asking, would, would that, would that vendor be responsible or make it, make the, the end user whole if they ha- if their account got hacked?

82. 0:21:01

    I believe they would. I don't have that contract before me right now. That's part what I see as an RFP, is that we would build a model of what we would say we wanna have a limited liability for the client if somebody hacks their account, just like we do with any of our other bank accounts or stock accounts. There should be regs just like that involved.

83. 0:21:22

    Okay. Actually, I may have the questions. Anybody wants to can chime in. You got one?

84. 0:21:26

    I would.

85. 0:21:27

    Hey, Will.

86. 0:21:27

    The backup.

87. 0:21:28

    Sure. Uh, number eight. Eight. Number eight. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Appreciate it.

88. 0:21:32

    Senator Jones.

89. 0:21:33

    Thank you, uh, Chairman Harbin, for bringing the bill. Um, several questions.

90. 0:21:40

    Yeah.

91. 0:21:40

    Number one, in the State of Georgia right now, without this bill, before this bill, can you open an account and purchase gold?

92. 0:21:52

    I can, sir.

93. 0:21:53

    Okay.

94. 0:21:54

    It's Dan.

95. 0:21:54

    And can you open an account and can you either leverage that gold or liq- liquify that gold?

96. 0:22:01

    You-

97. 0:22:01

    Can you spend against that gold?

98. 0:22:03

    These three, that's it.

99. 0:22:05

    You, you have an account, so-

100. 0:22:06

     I, I have an account that currently, and this is my part, is, is, is an, a, an English company, a company-

101. 0:22:13

     But, but you can do that.

102. 0:22:14

     But I can do that, and my gold is across the water.

103. 0:22:17

     I, I understand.

104. 0:22:18

     Right.

105. 0:22:18

     But without this bill-

106. 0:22:19

     Right

107. 0:22:19

     ... you can, you can own gold-

108. 0:22:22

     You can, you know, buy or sell gold. You can, um, liquefy that gold. You can do a credit card. You can use it to spend money because you're doing it at Check For Life. I could do the same thing if I wanted to.

109. 0:22:35

     Right.

110. 0:22:35

     And, um, and all of that now you're doing without the involvement of state government, without any expense to the state government, without any oversight from the state government, without any perceived guarantee of the state government, without any liability to the state government, without any lost tax income, because under your bill, if I own gold and used your account and sold that gold, I would not have, um, capital gains tax, which right now I would have.

111. 0:23:11

     Mm-hmm.

112. 0:23:11

     So the state of Georgia would lose that income, um, which makes me wonder why there's no cost in the fiscal note. But anyway, with no tax treatment and with no, um, giving any preferential tax treatment to anybody. Um, so the state of Georgia, you can do the things that you're talking about without any involvement from the state. That's my question.

113. 0:23:36

     Right.

114. 0:23:36

     And your answer is yes, I guess.

115. 0:23:39

     Well, my question i- is yes, but there's a couple of things that I see. Number one, is constitutionally for the state to be able to have this money under their supervision and control, is Article 1, Section 10 makes it a constitutional-

116. 0:23:54

     Right

117. 0:23:54

     ... that is unique, in my opinion, to any other asset that I would own.

118. 0:23:58

     I, I understand that, but I mean-

119. 0:23:59

     Right

120. 0:23:59

     ... but for my, my question-

121. 0:24:01

     Right

122. 0:24:01

     ... was can you do these things right now without any involvement of the state government? And the answer is yes.

123. 0:24:08

     Well, they st- they, yeah, they still get their tax as far as that portion.

124. 0:24:11

     Well, sure.

125. 0:24:11

     Right.

126. 0:24:11

     I mean, whereas they wouldn't.

127. 0:24:12

     Right.

128. 0:24:13

     But okay.

129. 0:24:13

     Right. And I think the other part is this portion, is that for many individuals, it opens up a door for investment opportunities that they don't have otherwise-

130. 0:24:23

     Okay

131. 0:24:24

     ... because of that. I think that's the part that opens up the door to the average Georgian that could not do it otherwise.

132. 0:24:29

     And I'm glad you said that because I was gonna mention also that you've been in the insurance business a long time, right?

133. 0:24:36

     Yes.

134. 0:24:37

     How long?

135. 0:24:37

     48 years.

136. 0:24:38

     48 years. I had 48 years in the banking business.

137. 0:24:41

     Right.

138. 0:24:42

     And during that time, I know I set up at least two, maybe three, but at least two commercial brokerage, stock brokerage operations in a bank, both Raymond James operations. And what I wanted to say was, in all that time, nobody ever asked for this product. I've never heard anybody ask for this product. So I'm wondering about the demand for this, as opposed to maybe vendor demand to offer this. I don't know. But, um, I appreciate you answering the questions, and I appreciate your work on this issue.

139. 0:25:17

     Okay. Thank you, sir. Appreciate it.

140. 0:25:20

     My Vice Chairman. And now our Secretary. If y'all hadn't met our new Secretary, Senator Dickerson's here today, and he made it to this meeting. We're so glad to have him here.

141. 0:25:29

     Appreciate that. Oh, thank you, sir.

142. 0:25:31

     Thank you, sir.

143. 0:25:31

     Chairman, I appreciate that.

144. 0:25:32

     In, in his first Bill and Rules today, and he did such a wonderful job.

145. 0:25:36

     Thank you. I appreciate that.

146. 0:25:36

     My word.

147. 0:25:38

     Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate that. Chairman Harbin, thank you for bringing this legislation here.

148. 0:25:41

     Yes, sir.

149. 0:25:42

     Um, I've just got a few additional questions that kinda goes on some of the other ones that we've got. You know, my concern really kind of focuses on really from the public safety from that standpoint. And, um, I know we've talked about, um, you know, this an, an asset, um, that it's, uh, creates an investment opportunity. But in my mind, it's, what I keep thinking about is this really should be, you know, this commodity, in essence, which is what it is, should be regulated by the Security and Exchange Commission. Um, it shouldn't be overseen by the, by the state government. And, and if we kinda think back to 2020, back during COVID, we had a lot of craze going on during the stock market.

150. 0:26:17

     A lot of it was, uh, some meme stocks, one of them being GameStop. A- and my concern is does this create, uh, an avenue for a couple things? Number one, does it, does it create an avenue for people to, um, look at this more an investment instead of a transactional type situation, like a debit card? Is it more of an investment to where they're, they're buying, putting their hard-earned dollars into this, thinking that it may go up? And we all agree, we, we've seen the, um, the, the return of, of gold over the last 15 or 20 years, and, and it's been exceedingly well over the last four or five years.

151. 0:26:50

     But my concern, if, if somebody, basically they're putting their hard-earned money into this account, they're buy- they're buying gold that's in a depository, and right now it's about 51 or 52, $5,200 an ounce. Well, then what happens if it drops to 31 or 3,200? And so for me, my mindset really kinda comes back to the, to safeguarding the general public. And, um, again, it's got some interesting, you know, pieces with this. But i- if, if we go back, a- and one of the things I wanna talk about as well is, um, we said that they w- this would not create a tax liability.

152. 0:27:23

     Uh, and specifically it circumvents kinda the capital gains from the federal tax law. Um, and one of the things, a- and I know a lot of people remember this too, is back in from, after we came out of the, the great, um, or, or the dot com recession back in '01 and '02, we had, one of the things that came forth was that you were allowed to, the first $250,000 on your house was tax exempt from capital gains on, from the federal standpoint. And so we saw a lot of house purchases, a lot of house flipping during that standpoint. And, a- and because there was no capital gains, it was to be paid up to $250,000.

153. 0:27:57

     And so, uh, for me, when, when you're looking at this, again, does it go back and try to, um, does it create a situation for maybe uninformed or misinformed investors, instead of opening up a standard brokerage account where they could buy gold as an asset through the New York Mercantile Exchange, the New York Stock Exchange. They could buy it multiple different ways. They could buy it through an ETF, even fractionals of it.

154. 0:28:22

     that they look at this more an investment instead of a way to transaction and, and to utilize money. And that's, that's my concern from the general public, because this is, um, you know, there's certain qualifications whenever you're investing specifically with the Security and Exchange Commission that everybody has to be a certain amount of qualified investors, there has to be a certain amount of disclosures go out.

155. 0:28:42

     Right.

156. 0:28:43

     And this may not provide that same amount of disclosure, and that's where I've, uh, um, I've got some reservations from that standpoint.

157. 0:28:50

     Could you shorten that question down just a little bit, just a little bit?

158. 0:28:54

     Mm-hmm.

159. 0:28:54

     Isn't it true?

160. 0:28:55

     Uh, isn't it true? No, no.

161. 0:28:56

     There you go.

162. 0:28:58

     It, it, it, uh, I, I think this is, uh, you, you know this, anytime you buy a security, uh, there's a statement that usually says, "Past performance is not a guarantee of, you know, future performance." Uh, and, and the same thing's true I think with this product, is that here's what we're talking a little bit different from ETFs and some of the other things. This is the physical gold that is in a state-regulated account, that is if you wanted it, you could do that. Some of your ETFs and some of your gold funds do not own the physical gold, they own a, you know, a right to the gold, if you will.

163. 0:29:30

     Sure.

164. 0:29:30

     And so what I think is this, is that part of our, our, our process of our board when we set this part up would be to say, number one, is that there would be a statement that this can lose, it can gain. It, yeah, a, a disclaimer that they understand that. It's like this, if they buy a mutual fund, they, they understand that it goes up and it goes down. Some of the minimums for some of the investment, you know this 'cause you're versed in the investment world, that some of the minimums just are, are, are higher than the average individual might wanna put $50 a week or $50 a month in from that standpoint.

165. 0:30:03

     So I think the first is from a safety standpoint, I would say yes, it's not a, it's not a, a, it's not a savings account at 3%, but also right now when we look at what inflation is doing to us, 3% is not even breaking even in that respect. But is it a way for a average Georgian that doesn't have a lot of money but would say, "I'd like to put some money away as an in- as an investment, but also have liquidity," that's the part that I think brings that, that they c- they have it with them and they have it instantly as far as that if they have the debit card system.

166. 0:30:38

     So I would say that part of our responsibilities of that committee when they did the RFPs is that there would be a disclaimer just like anywhere else, this could go up or down, and you check the box or you tell the person that from that standpoint. The idea that money, what is money? Used to all of our money was backed by gold or, you know, some was backed by silver. So we're really going back at a, a point to where our, our value, what is the value of a dollar today? Used to be say, as, as sound as a dollar. Sometimes that's there.

167. 0:31:08

     I think our continual, uh, inflation is caused by federal, uh, irresponsibility to not check debt, and you look at where we are, because they can tax you or tax me, or they can print money they don't have that makes your money and my money worth less. And I think that the gold gives the average Georgian that, bear with me, we got gold on the top of our Capitol. This gives them a way to own some of that, a, a piece of gold, if you will, and be able to spend it, and to be able to g- have it in smaller denominations.

168. 0:31:42

     Sure.

169. 0:31:43

     And I see this as a way to spend money as well. It's, it's, it's liquid, and there's not many assets like that that I see, um, that are, that are like that, even in a mutual fund, and you understand that too. Okay.

170. 0:31:55

     Appreciate that.

171. 0:31:56

     Thank you, sir.

172. 0:31:56

     Okay. Uh, we don't have anything. We got a couple of Zoom folks that wanna come in here. We can't, we had so many people call back in for Zoom, we just had to tell 'em we couldn't get to 'em, and a lot of people that testified last time wanted to come back on again and answer questions. I'm not sure where that came from, but in reality there, here we are. Um, I'm gonna ask, uh, Jackson, if you will, h- who can you get on there? You, can you get, uh, Robert on there? Is that- Yep. Robert, can't you believe? Yeah, once you call him, his name Robert, can you hear me?

173. 0:32:26

     Uh, yeah, I can hear you. Can you hear me?

174. 0:32:27

     Robert?

175. 0:32:29

     Yes.

176. 0:32:30

     I can't hear you, buddy. Unmute.

177. 0:32:33

     Yes, I'm here.

178. 0:32:35

     I'm gonna have to cut you, you have to go real, you gotta real fast, real fast, okay? 'Cause we're, we're gonna run tight here.

179. 0:32:39

     All right.

180. 0:32:40

     Go for it.

181. 0:32:41

     Up- yeah, I've-

182. 0:32:42

     Tell everybody where you are.

183. 0:32:43

     Okay. I, uh, live in Dallas, Texas. I represent the Sound Money Trade Organization, which is a nonprofit, uh, organization dedicated to promulgating, uh, sound money, uh, introduction of sound money across United States. I was part of the group that successfully passed legal tender laws in the state of Florida, and, uh, testified in front of the Senate Banking and Finance Committee, the Senate and the House there in Florida. And I represent industry interests for people that, um, um, dig up precious metals, provide precious metals, and sell precious metals.

184. 0:33:14

     Uh, I also have a 30-year history in cybersecurity, so I'll be speaking to some of the s- potential cybersecurity concerns that I have. I have a master's in cybersecurity from Norwich University, which is a private military college, and I am, uh, up to date on, uh, GovRAMP and FedRAMP standards because I helped Verizon's cloud unit get professional, uh, FedRAMP certification about 10 years ago as part of that team.

185. 0:33:36

     Robert, are you for or against this bill?

186. 0:33:39

     I am for parts of the bill, but I have concerns on the bill. Uh, my concerns specifically are two areas. One is the state bullion depository. Uh, I have concerns about the state bullion depository because there are private providers who already provide those services, who have been providing those services, uh, some of them for over 100 years internationally. They're fully audited, and, uh, have provided service, uh, billions and billions of dollars of transactions every year. And that I don't believe in, as part of this bill, that the state needs to participate in the actual, uh, providing of a depository and get involved in that.

187. 0:34:18

     Uh, I think it, uh, it would be involved in the private market. There's no need for it. There's no access problem for people. Uh, the private market solutions exist. As well as when the state tends to get involved in private markets, it tends to become the provider of choice, uh, thereby actually limiting competition and potentially limiting, uh, uh, actual price discovery in the market, which we do have a very robust commodities market here in the United States. In fact, the United States has the leading commodities pricing market in the US, uh, or in the world. And so we definitely, uh, don't necessarily need the state to get involved in that.

188. 0:34:52

     Uh, I think that-

189. 0:34:52

     So you don't want any, any state in the union, you wouldn't want any state in the union passing this bill is what you're saying, basically.

190. 0:34:58

     Well, not the portion around bullion depository. I am in favor of legal tender. Uh, like I said, I was on the team that we got that successfully passed in Florida, and I was also advising on the bill for Missouri, which we think are great legislation. I was also participating in ALEC, which did model legislation, which is now being proposed to many of the states. So I was involved with that entire process. And so, uh, what I can tell you is that the state, uh, it- I'm not in favor of the state participating in the bullion depository process. Uh, the State of Texas, my home state, has a bullion depository. It's run by a private agency.

191. 0:35:29

     Uh, they have a profit-sharing agreement, and regulation is provided by the comptroller for the State of Texas, but all the employees are private. It is kind of a state-private, uh, agreement, uh, for, and the State of Texas is not making any money on that. They do pay for a couple of employees. And it doesn't, uh, that depository has not been a raging success. Uh, the University of Texas and Texas A&M University originally had about eight hundred and fifty million dollars of gold in that depository. They have pulled their gold out of that depository, and the depository currently, according to their website, holds about four hundred million.

192. 0:36:02

     Uh, and they are on the hook potentially because the legislation didn't, uh, wasn't specific, and the legislation pro- you know, proposed in South Dakota also was not specific on the depository as to who would pay for cybersecurity, who would potentially insure transactions, and, uh, other things that the state would be getting involved with. So I don't believe that this would be a revenue neutral bill at all with a depository in there. I think it would, uh, compete with the private market. It would bring the state into financial services, which I don't, uh, believe that the state should be involved in.

193. 0:36:34

     One last concern I wanted to have-

194. 0:36:36

     Quickly. Quickly

195. 0:36:36

     ... around cybersecurity is that the current government standards for cybersecurity are based on NIST standards, National Institute of Science and Technology standards for cybersecurity. Uh, my master's degree is from a private military college in which that's what I was trained on. My, uh, focus was digital forensics. And I can tell you that none of the states are actually GovRAMP or FedRAMP certified. FedRAMP is the precursor to GovRAMP. GovRAMP is a solution in which private parties that want to provide state services must be certified according to the government's NIST standards.

196. 0:37:12

     So if we were to, uh, if, if the, the, the State of Georgia or any state, South Dakota or any, gets into an agreement to run a bullion depository, uh, you then have to become GovRAMP certified yourself as a state or at least adhere to those requirements. And to my knowledge, no states are, as far as I know, as far as their IT infrastructure goes. And again, there is a process called GovRAMP that certifies cybersecurity for third-party providers.

197. 0:37:37

     Okay. Thank you.

198. 0:37:38

     So for all of those reasons, I believe it would be best to leave the bullion depository part of this bill up to the existing third-party market, which is robust, uh, and is already has regulations on it, rather than the state getting into the bullion depository business. However, I do think that it'd be wise for the state, if they're gonna advocate that there be bullion depositories, uh, for people in states that wanna have legal tender laws, that you provide a regulatory framework for the private parties.

199. 0:38:08

     And those are my comments.

200. 0:38:09

     Robert, that was a lot of comment. Thank you. Very well. Thank you. Very, very well put together there. I hate to cut you off, boss, but I gotta go to, uh, is it Benjamin Schaefer or is it two people, Jackson? Who is it?

201. 0:38:20

     Um, Benjamin Schaefer is my name.

202. 0:38:22

     Ben, I'm sorry, Ben.

203. 0:38:23

     Sorry, Jim.

204. 0:38:23

     Now, k- kind of real quickly, if you will. Thank you.

205. 0:38:26

     You bet. Um, uh, my name is Benjamin Schaefer.

206. 0:38:29

     Where, where, where are you from?

207. 0:38:31

     I am from Utah.

208. 0:38:32

     Okay.

209. 0:38:32

     Citizens for Sound Money was first established in Utah. I'm the director of operations for Citizens for Sound Money. It continues as an organization advocating for the use of sound money, gold and silver, in everyday commerce and protecting the rights of American citizens to use, uh, sound money solutions in their transactions. Uh, we helped pass the very first legal tender law of, which is similar to this bill. The very first legal tender law in 2011, uh, was passed in, here in Utah. We've since then also passed a law, um, requiring Utah to place, uh, some of what we call our rainy day fund into, uh, gold bullion, um, for the state, and that has been a raging success.

210. 0:39:14

     It's been wonderful. It's helped us balance our budgets. It's helped us, um, uh, have a, a stable economy. And so all of those portions of this bill, I'm very much in favor of, and so I'm speaking in favor of that. We would like to see, um, that recognition, uh, that the Constitution, as, um, the senator pointed out, um, says in Article 1, Section 10, that it is, um, incumbent upon the states to recognize, uh, gold and silver as legal tender for the payment of debts. Uh, it, that portion of this bill, I'm very much in favor of.

211. 0:39:47

     Uh, I, however, I want to echo all of the same concerns that, uh, uh, Rob Keats, um, mentioned, um, from his organization, the Sound, uh, Money Trade Association. Um, we have, we have the same concerns. We don't wanna see the state, uh, attempting to become a participant in the private market. Uh, we don't believe that that's in the state's best interest or in the market's best interest. Now, the state, of course, I, I would strongly encourage the State of Georgia to do what Utah has done, uh, so successfully, which is to put a portion of your funds into sound money.

212. 0:40:20

     Um, gold is, uh, actually I'd like to point out for banking purposes, right? Gold is a tier one asset internationally, uh, right now Uh, m- almost all the central banks in the world hold gold, uh, as a reserve asset, and gold is held as a reserve asset at a larger proportion of the value of the reserve assets of central banks around the world, larger even than US Treasury bonds, uh, making gold the most important tier one reserve asset of all, all banking institutions.

213. 0:40:51

     And so, uh, of course, it's an important asset, but it needs to be done correctly. Uh, and, um, my- our concern is and why we're speaking against passage of the bill as it stands today here in Georgia is because-

214. 0:41:03

     Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. A minute ago you were for it, now you're against it. For what... What are these-

215. 0:41:07

     No, I'm for the legal tender status. I'm against the depository being run-

216. 0:41:12

     Oh, okay

217. 0:41:12

     ... by the State of Georgia, because if you do that, the State of Georgia will have to become a participant and competitor in the private market for vaulting, um, this asset. W- I believe that the State of Georgia should hold gold. It should not participate in the gold market by holding it on behalf of other people, essentially.

218. 0:41:32

     Okay.

219. 0:41:32

     Or selling it, buying and selling it with- in the private market to, to citizens. Right now, people already, in Georgia already, um, w- do transact in gold and silver. Uh, it- it's a small marketplace, but it does occur. Without the, the legal tender recognition, uh, in the State of Georgia, you, you're running into a, a serious conflicts with taxation and other things. Um, I think that it will, will help. For example, the, the constitutional capital gains...

220. 0:42:04

     Uh, constitutional money versus capital gains tax revenues was one of the concerns that was brought up by the committee. Um, capital gains taxes are not normally realized on transactions in gold and silver simply because they will end up, um, not being correctly reported or correctly valued. The problem is, is there is no nominal capital gain when you use gold or silver as money. Now, when it's circulating, it is not, um, it is not being used as a reserve asset. It's not being used as a security, for example.

221. 0:42:36

     You mentioned the Security and Exchange Commissions. Um, gold and silver aren't a security, and therefore, um, w- when they're used as money, money is, is embedded in its functions. And when it's used w- with those functions as a fungible, um, tangible form of cash, it simply cannot be taxed with capital gains, and creating a potential conflict. Uh, so w- I would strongly encourage, uh, a future bill to address the constitutional provisions, uh, the legal tender status of money.

222. 0:43:07

     But as it stands, I am speaking against the bill because it would make the State of Georgia a competitor in the private marketplace for, uh, vaulting and, uh, exchange services.

223. 0:43:18

     You know, we have a little gold mine up in Dahlonega, by the way.

224. 0:43:21

     That's excellent. Right?

225. 0:43:23

     We have a little gold mine up in Dahlonega. Never mind. Okay. All right. Now we gotta have... There we go. Let's, uh... Thank you for your Zooms. Guys, we can't take any more Zooms. We're gonna take a couple from the audience, if you don't mind. Wonderful. Uh, Brian Allen, you were here before. You didn't get a chance to speak. Would you take the podium, tell us who you are?

226. 0:43:45

     Brian Allen.

227. 0:43:46

     Hold on, let me get you on here. All right, go.

228. 0:43:48

     All right. Good afternoon. I'm Brian Allen, vice chair, Libertarian Party of Georgia. The subject of affordability has been coming up frequently lately, but you often don't hear why everything seems to be so expensive these days. There are n- many reasons to be sure, but the major one that doesn't get enough discussion is monetary inflation. I've heard concerns about what happens if people lose money on gold, but you're constantly losing money with dollars. When the Federal Reserve increases the supply of dollars with the press of a button, it reduces the value of the dollars in your pocket. Everything seems to get more expensive because your money is worth less.

229. 0:44:18

     Since the Federal Reserve was established in 1913, the United States dollar has lost over 96% of its value, while gold and silver have increased in value over the same period. The Transactional Gold and Silver Act would give Georgians the option to use gold and silver as an alternative to dollars, sound money that people can use to retain their purchasing power, shielding themselves from the whims of federal policy. It isn't just purely financial either. It incentivizes different behavior. Inflationary money tends to promote high time preference behavior, as people want to spend now while they c- can get the most bang for their buck. Sound money, on the other hand, enables a low time preference behavior, as people can save while having more confidence that their wealth won't be eroded over time.

230. 0:44:55

     Despite what some may say, saving is a necessary part of sustainable economic growth. Free markets are superior to central planning, and that certainly includes the choice of money. Making gold and silver legal tender would also enable the State of Georgia to limit re- the risks faced in uncertain economic times. With the dollar status as the world's, like, reserve currency being increasingly threatened, it's only prudent to take steps to not be completely dependent on it. Last but certainly not least, at the end of the day, people should just be free to use whatever they want as money. If I want to pay you in gold and silver, and you want to be paid in gold or silver, we should have the liberty to do that without getting hit with a tax just because we didn't use dollars.

231. 0:45:28

     While it's true this bill wouldn't eliminate federal taxes, eliminating state taxes would be a big step in the right direction. Letting people use gold and silver as money is both the ethical and economical thing to do. Is this bill the purely free market ideal that I would prefer? No. And if it mandated going through the state to use gold and silver as money, then I'd definitely be opposed to it, but it doesn't. Don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good. I urge you to make gold and silver legal tender in Georgia, and let the people decide for themselves what they want to use. Thank you for your time and attention. I'd be happy to answer any questions.

232. 0:45:56

     Brian, you've got down here that you are the Libertarian Party of Georgia.

233. 0:46:00

     Yep.

234. 0:46:00

     Uh, is that the- their position, Libertarian Party position, that this is a fundamentally sound program, uh, bill?

235. 0:46:08

     We, we-

236. 0:46:08

     Or is this you personally?

237. 0:46:09

     It's... This, this, our position is that we favor legal tender for gold and silver in the State of Georgia. And as long as... Like, our preference would be a pure free market, but if in order to have this bill pass, we're also taking the states getting personally involved in the market, then we'll take that deal.

238. 0:46:30

     Does the bullion depository cause you any heartburn?

239. 0:46:34

     So we would actually prefer if the State of Georgia invested in gold and silver, um, for like a enabling retirement accounts and stuff to be invested, uh, in precious metals markets.

240. 0:46:45

     Questions for Brian from the committee, anybody? We have, uh, Mike Cannon. Mike, where... Thank you, Brian. Uh, Mike Cannon with NSIC, is that right?

241. 0:46:56

     Yes, that's correct. Uh, Mike Carter with NSIC. We're a-

242. 0:47:00

     Mike

243. 0:47:00

     ... solution action tank focused on protecting America's economic security. Uh, we've been helping to facilitate legislation like this across the country. This is a grassroots movement, uh, and people, yes, are looking for ways to hedge against inflation. I wanted to answer some of the questions that I heard, uh, uh, from the committee members here. Uh, uh, one of them I heard was, "Who backs, uh, the, the, the, the, uh, the threat if, if a account is hacked? Who backs it?" That'll be the vendor themselves that do that. This runs on the rails of MasterCard. It runs on the rails of the current debit card system, all the money transmitter rails, all the anti-money laundering, all those pieces are in place.

244. 0:47:37

     Uh, it's a relatively, uh, seamless transaction in terms of banking. There is a difference between, uh, what we hear, the, the gold dealers and so forth that have coins or investment gold and so forth. That will all be handled just like it is today. However, if a gold dealer wants to act on, on, on behalf as a third-party agent to go buy a car, uh, let's say, uh, uh, Senator Jones, someone would buy a car from you and they wanted to pay for that in gold instead of dollars, you would want to know that that gold is real gold.

245. 0:48:08

     That's where the state has their constitutional authority to say, "We recognize it as legal tender. We're gonna set up the guiderails to make sure this has happen- that the, that the guiderails are in place, that the free market can compete." And if you look at the legislation itself, I don't believe it, it says it needs to set up a state bullion depository. It might give options, uh, but we see this as, as private vendors. I'll talk a little bit about Texas since I'm, I'm from Texas. Uh, the Texas Bullion Depository was originally set up improperly. Uh, it, uh, uh, was done to move gold into it, uh, for Texas A&M.

246. 0:48:40

     It was never moved in down there. And then it sat there as kind of a white elephant because people are like, "What do I do with this thing?" Uh, the, the reality of it is we just had a resolution in Texas where 1.7 million people said, "We want to be able to transact. We wanna make this, this, this, turn this into something that's actually useful." And that's what we're seeing happening there, and that's why we're seeing this passed in Florida. We're seeing it passed in Arkansas. We're seeing it passed in Missouri and Texas. Uh, there's a need for this. Uh, and, and, and the, the need is real, but the need for the government to be involved, because I think, I think those are the questions I keep hearing, is, uh, if you want to make this money, I need to know that the gold that I'm getting is gonna be pure gold.

247. 0:49:21

     There's gotta be custodial controls. We have to protect the consumer. If the vault, if the gold is in the depository, I need to know the gold is there. We've had private vendors out there, uh, that have said it was there and it was not there. This is no different than you, how you license a law firm or anything else. You need to have some guidelines if you're gonna make it money. And this is about making not just gold and silver legal tender. That was done back in 2011 in Utah, and they haven't been able to do anything with it. Now, with electronic technology, with the Constitution, we can make gold and silver legal tender, and I can pay for it in dollars, or I could pay for it in gold or silver.

248. 0:49:55

     And if you were to take it in gold or silver, you'd probably save on the transaction fee. All the fees are gonna work the same as the current banking system. It runs on the same rails. What we want is to make sure that there's integrity in the system, the state's taking advantage of their constitutional right in Article 1, Section 10, and you set up the financial r- guidelines to let the free market compete. Let them compete in the depository. Let them compete in the apps, in the financial fintech providers that do this. You've got a fintech industry in North J- north of Atlanta here. Uh, there will be plenty of opportunities for multiple vendors to compete, but we need to have the guiderails to make sure the consumer's protected and the gold is physically there.

249. 0:50:31

     I'll answer any questions.

250. 0:50:32

     All right. Thank you. Yeah, a question for you. You keep saying gold is legal tender, but isn't gold and silver a legal tender in America as, as we speak?

251. 0:50:39

     Uh, it, you have to recogn- as a state, the states have the right to, to have gold and silver as legal tender, but you need to accept that right and then say, "All right, how are we gonna do that so the consumer's protected there?" So I think there's about eight or nine states that passed gold and silver

252. 0:50:52

     Oh, right. But-

253. 0:50:53

     But they're found in-

254. 0:50:54

     ... Senator Harbin using his gold card, so to speak, whatever you wanna call it, his MasterCard, it's backed by gold. Isn't it legal to be using in Georgia his Chick-fil-A?

255. 0:51:02

     Uh, but he's paying for it in dollars. He's not paying for it in gold. He's not paying for it in silver.

256. 0:51:06

     Explain.

257. 0:51:06

     So what this would allow you to do is potentially, say, Chick-fil-A could say, uh, "You know what? We're gonna take that in gold and save a little bit on transaction fees," uh, 'cause gold is legal tender. So they, instead of converting from gold to dollars, they could at their choice say, "We wanna do that." Or employees could say, "You know, I'd like to get paid a little bit in gold." Uh, and there's legislation that states are fir- circulating out there now to say, "That, we'll pay part of your salary in gold if you wanna be paid in gold." Uh, people are saying, or they're passing laws to pay your taxes in gold. Uh, this is about making gold and silver legal tender, functional currency, functional money.

258. 0:51:42

     If you're going to do that, I think we all agree, uh, that we have to have the regulations in place to make sure the consumer's protected, the gold is there, and there's just some financial rails that make sure the system is clean.

259. 0:51:56

     Question on the committee? I know the lawyers are gonna have questions, my Lord and mercy.

260. 0:52:04

     Recognize Senator Jones.

261. 0:52:06

     Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman. I believe you mentioned that this bill, uh, does not particularly, uh, create a depository, a bullion depository commission, and I would draw your interest to-

262. 0:52:18

     A state, a state-run is, I guess, who I'm referring to. The state doesn't own and run it. Uh, i- it would, it would open it up to the free market, and then they would oversee with those little guiderails as I understa- as I understand the legislation.

263. 0:52:30

     I don't see that in what I'm reading online anyway.

264. 0:52:32

     Well, there might be... Y- you might wanna look at ways to potentially amend or clarify if, if that's not clear to what you guys want. I, I'm sorry, not, to the committee members, uh, uh, what, what you want. I don't know. Where, it, it leaves it open for private vendors, uh, to be the vault. I think it says one or more vaults, one or more, uh, on, on the, on- Uh, financial service providers-

265. 0:52:54

     The line you're on, Senator Jones

266. 0:52:55

     ... as it relates to the-

267. 0:52:56

     What line are you on?

268. 0:52:57

     On line 81.

269. 0:52:59

     Okay.

270. 0:53:03

     Yeah, got it.

271. 0:53:05

     So Texas is the only state right now, and I was involved in the Florida legislation he- he- heavily in that, a- and they're leaving it open to multiple vendors that wanna operate a vault. They're gonna have to follow certain guidelines, though.

272. 0:53:17

     And, and-

273. 0:53:17

     Uh, Texas is the only one that's built their own vault and operated that. I'm sorry, sir.

274. 0:53:21

     And, and I'm curious about something, 'cause I, I heard you say that you support the use of gold and silver as legal tender.

275. 0:53:26

     Mm-hmm.

276. 0:53:27

     What does-

277. 0:53:28

     Well, our Constitution does that, yeah

278. 0:53:29

     ... right. What impact would that have on the dollar?

279. 0:53:34

     I think it would b- provide potentially a safety rail on the dollar. I mean, we're, we're not doing ourselves any favor once we got off the gold standard. We've seen the dollar lose 90% of its value, uh, since we've gotten off of that. Uh, but people still pay for things in dollar. Dollar is still the measure of value. Uh, we are seeing central banks all run to gold as part of their portfolios. We think people should have that own, their own optionality to do that, and have their own rainy day fund in, in gold and silver. But do I see people taking all their money and putting it in gold? Uh, no, I don't.

280. 0:54:05

     Uh, they're gonna take a part of that and do it, and I guess the-

281. 0:54:07

     But you do see transactions occurring in gold-

282. 0:54:10

     Yes, I do

283. 0:54:10

     ... which means that that really is having an impact on the dollar. Do you agree?

284. 0:54:14

     N- no, I wouldn't agree. In fact, I, I would-

285. 0:54:16

     So if all the transactions in gold and silver, and none of the transactions are in dollars, you are saying that that would not have an impact on the dollar?

286. 0:54:23

     I, I, I, I'm saying that based on all the consumer feedback and what we're hearing from people-

287. 0:54:28

     No, I'm not talking about consumer feedback. You said in your statement-

288. 0:54:31

     Mm-hmm

289. 0:54:31

     ... that you prefer all of the transactions to occur in gold and silver, and I'm asking you-

290. 0:54:35

     No, not, I don't prefer all-

291. 0:54:36

     ... what have an impact on the dollar.

292. 0:54:37

     I did not say I prefer all of them to take place. I want optionality. I want people to have that optionality. And what drives that-

293. 0:54:43

     So your preference isn't to have transactions in gold and silver? Is that what you're saying?

294. 0:54:47

     It's to have the optional to do that. I want the, I w- I want a strong dollar, and we had, uh, uh, the former vice chair of the Federal Reserve look at this in Utah, in the Precious Metals Studies report there. He said, "Hey, the dollar's gonna be around for the r- uh, uh, in all of our lifetimes, but people should have the optionality to do that if they want to do that." Uh, and, and I'll, uh, I'll drive that home with this. In, in Texas, I got a 50... I, I met with your chief of staff earlier today. I have a $50 trillion Zimbabwe bill that was given to me. He says, "You gotta get this legislation passed." And I was like, "Well, we're working as hard as we can to help facilitate this." Every legislation has a little bit different way of how they wanna go about doing this.

295. 0:55:23

     He goes, "You don't understand." He goes, "They said there'd never be hyperinflation until there was." He goes, "I had to sell my truck for three loaves of bread." He goes, "If I could've had my rainy day fund in gold, I could've had a card like this. I could've gone to the grocery store and bought groceries at everyday low prices." I'm not predicting that's gonna happen here, but we can see the fiscal debt cliff. We can see people attacking the dollar, the BRICS nations. This is, I believe, more of a safety valve. There's a banker in Oklahoma who says, "I want this on my app in my bank." When Silicon Valley Bank failed, uh, a lot of people left because they were afraid, wanted to go to a bank that's too big to fail.

296. 0:56:00

     You know, I don't want that to happen. I wanna say, "Okay, I'm gonna move a little bit to gold over here. Once I feel things are comfortable, I'm gonna move it back, but I keep them in my business." And so we're seeing bankers, we're seeing gold dealers say, "How do we adapt? How do we grow into this?" Uh, we're seeing the industry happen, uh, and this is the big idea, and it's happening. It's happening in five states now. There's another, oh, I think we have f- there's 14 states that are currently looking at this now, uh, moving bills like this forward. Uh, and, uh, a- and it's a matter of how does Georgia lead and make sure that you got the financial rails to make sure this is a success in Georgia.

297. 0:56:34

     I think that's as much limited government as possible, and let the free market run.

298. 0:56:39

     Okay. Uh, Vice Chairman Hodges.

299. 0:56:42

     Good. Um, thank you, Mr. Chairman. One quick question. In a, a state where you establish gold and silver as legal tender, do you have to accept it?

300. 0:56:53

     No.

301. 0:56:54

     You don't. So, so if I don't think it's convenient, then I don't have to accept it.

302. 0:56:58

     Correct.

303. 0:57:02

     Okay. Okay, guys, time is gettin' run out on us, gettin' close here. Any more questions from the committee? No one here, and, uh, raise your hand out there in the audience so we'll know that we're here. Okay, here's the posture we're in. Uh, Senator Harbin, we are in a posture to, uh, take a motion on your m- bill to move your bill or not move your bill, so I'll open it up to the committee for action.

304. 0:57:27

     Motion to approve, pass the bill. Motion and a second. Senator Jones, Senator Emanuel. I mean s- uh, Senator Mangham. Okay, so you got the, uh, you got a motion in. Uh, all those in favor of passing this bill, please raise your right hand. One, two, three, four,

305. 0:58:28

     five. All those opposed. One, two, three. Your bill moves to rules. And let people understand something. There's a long way to go here. This process just begins. Rules can change things, floor amendments can change things, and I'm sure the House can change things. And if I understand correctly, Senator Harbin, there's a bill basically like yours coming from the House. There's a bill coming from the House. Committee, we are adjourned. And I will...