Comité Finance del Senado, 25 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

413 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:16:33

   Have a seat and get everybody's attention. We're gonna get started with the, uh, finance meeting. Everything's running late today, so we will try to be as efficient.

2. 0:16:44

   Attention, everybody. Get everybody's attention here. We need to get going here. Uh, Senator Still, would you lead us in invocation today?

3. 0:16:53

   I will. Please bow your heads.

4. 0:16:59

   Heavenly Father, um, thank you for, a, a long day of productivity for, uh, for your people. Please, uh, continue to guide us in making the best decisions for the people of Georgia. And, uh, help us to just, um, be ever, ever mindful of you in all that we say and do. It's in your Son's name we pray. Amen.

5. 0:17:19

   Amen. So, um, Senator, uh, Robertson has found his way back to the Finance Committee. So we'll let him try again. Yes. Um, we're doing- Well. We're doing one of his two today. We've got a lot of bills, so we're gonna try to do this one, 'cause I think it can be very quick. We passed it last year. It's basically a certified notice when your COOVA is expiring. So, uh, with that, the floor is yours. And I, I'll submit to any questions from the committee.

6. 0:17:48

   Move to pass.

7. 0:17:49

   Second.

8. 0:17:50

   Got a motion and a second. Any other discussion? All in favor say, "Aye."

9. 0:17:56

   Aye.

10. 0:17:57

    Any opposed?

11. 0:17:58

    That's the way to pass.

12. 0:17:59

    Sounds like you're done. God bless Georgia and God bless the Finance Committee.

13. 0:18:06

    All right. Uh, again, same thing we passed out last year. I think with the shortened, uh, sine die, maybe it didn't make it over the finish line. Better luck this time. Senator Dixon. You wanna come up?

14. 0:18:27

    And I should add that, um, I've got my intern out sick today. Uh, Diego is trying to go to law school right now and eventually abandon me, so he's not here. But we have Elizabeth Bennett covering for him. Um, unfortunately she works for Senator Carden Summers and Frank Ginn, so we've had to do some retraining. But, um, I- I think she's, she's probably gotten an upgrade with this committee.

15. 0:18:56

    All right. Senator Dixon, go ahead. The floor is yours.

16. 0:19:00

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

17. 0:19:00

    And tell us your LC number you're reading off of. I, I think he had a late sub that, uh, took out about three second sh- sections of bonding to make it a little bit cleaner.

18. 0:19:10

    Yes, sir.

19. 0:19:11

    You had, been a little work done on this in the background.

20. 0:19:13

    Yeah. Nothing wrong with the bonding, but, uh, needed to work through, through some things on that, so took that, that out. But Mr. Chairman, committee members, uh, thank you for allowing me to bring Senate Bill 498 before you today, working off of LC 49-2723S.

21. 0:19:29

    And who have you got sitting with you there?

22. 0:19:32

    I'm Bonnie Holiday. I'm the president of the Georgia Charter Schools Association.

23. 0:19:36

    All right. Well, great. Well, I think Senator Dixon's gonna need all the help he can get from you, so I'm glad-

24. 0:19:40

    No doubt that

25. 0:19:40

    ... glad you're here.

26. 0:19:41

    But in case y'all have questions, I am here.

27. 0:19:43

    All right. Go ahead.

28. 0:19:44

    I do need, I do need all the help I can get, Mr. Chairman. And if it wasn't obvious, this is a charter school funding bill. Um, essentially Senate Bill 498 addresses, uh, significant challenges faced by Georgia's charter schools, uh, with, when they're faced with facilities financing. Uh, this bill creates a system including a revolving loan fund to provide charter schools with increased access to affordable capital. Uh, this ensures, uh, more dollars will be spent on kids rather than the buildings.

29. 0:20:17

    Uh, the provisions in 498 reflect the finding of ExcelinEd's, uh, 2025 analysis of Georgia's charter school facility financing, uh, landscape, uh, which was confirmed. Uh, the state covers less than one-third of charter schools' facilities expenses. Uh, the funding gap, uh, it represents about $2,400 per student, uh, which is about three times higher than, uh, neighboring states. Uh, unlike, uh, traditional public schools, Georgia charter schools receive little to no SPLOST funding to support their capital needs.

30. 0:20:52

    They cannot levy taxes, uh, to pay for their buildings. In the absence of these traditional forms of capital support, charter schools, uh, they must pursue higher costs of financing in the private sector. Uh, many states have addressed this market failure through creation of state affiliated revolving loan funds. Uh, first, what this bill does, uh, on lines 90, 92 through 128, it establishes the Charter School Funding Facility Authority.

31. 0:21:23

    Uh, second, it outlines the authority's ability to issue revolving loans and administer other funds in support of charter school capital projects, and that's line 129 through 260. And then the third part, uh, two, lines 262 through 267, uh, capping the loan amounts at 20% of projects up to 2 million, um, a $2 million. Uh, limiting the term to the length of the charter school's, uh, contract up to five years.

32. 0:21:54

    Um, it also enables the authority to set terms, conditions for loan issuances, repayments, and establishes a reserve fund, uh, to require schools to provide the authority with interest in real property, title, or other assets that can assist in securing the asset. Uh, allowing the authority to withhold, uh, school state funding in the event of a default. It's got that in the bill as well. Uh, but simply what this bill does is it keeps more money in the classrooms and allow charter schools to have access to funds, uh, to help build facilities or to remodel them.

33. 0:22:29

    Be happy to answer any questions.

34. 0:22:31

    All right. And let me, um, let me try to summarize that and y- you can tell me if I'm wrong. But we've got charter schools. These are public schools. They get state funding, the state part of it, but I guess maybe they get some of the local, or usually not. I don't, I don't know. Don't think they get the local. So they're, they're only getting part of the funds, and they also aren't eligible for the SPLOST in just about all cases. So but yet sometimes they take over some abandoned school buildings and have amazing results with these students.

35. 0:23:05

    And so, uh, they're another niche in the, in the system of not being, as I know one of my committee has referred to, one size fits all. But they are limited in getting capital for capital projects since they don't take SPLOST, so they would gotta take the, the, the state money and use it for that. This would set up a revolving fund, and it would say that you can have, uh, 20% of that total of the state, and I believe it was a 2 million cap was, isn't that?

36. 0:23:35

    That's correct.

37. 0:23:36

    And then they, they would get the other funding, the other 80% from, from other sources or have the money raised or whatever, depending on the case. So the state's not saying we're gonna take on the whole loan, but we will, we will help you set up this fund. And I think in other states, these revolving funds have taken on a lot of money from philanthropic groups and others and expanded the fund in that case. So, uh, did, did I say everything correctly so far?

38. 0:24:03

    You did.

39. 0:24:03

    Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

40. 0:24:04

    Okay.

41. 0:24:04

    You did.

42. 0:24:05

    All right, just trying to get the committee members maybe up to speed on what we're doing. Senator Albers?

43. 0:24:10

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, uh, thank you, Senator, for bringing this great bill. Love our charter schools. They do such a great job. And it's my understanding, in addition to what both of you have said, that also because we charter every five years, in typical financing when you go out to borrow money, they're looking for a longer term to that. So in the normal vehicle we would use to do that, you need that 20% down in order to secure those loans for capital projects. So this is part of the process with us helping our public charter schools and then doing it in a fiscally responsible way.

44. 0:24:41

    Is that not true?

45. 0:24:42

    That is true, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for that.

46. 0:24:44

    Thank you.

47. 0:24:47

    All right. Any other questions?

48. 0:24:50

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senator. Listen, I, I support school choice. I'm gonna have some problems with this bill. I just wanna tell you why. Put 292 million towards the charter supplement. I know it doesn't cover everything you want, but that, that's what it is. I think we actually earmark off about 53 million of it to be capital. I understand that's less than you would be making on your SPLOST. The 15 million, I mean, the 15 people of this board, do you think that's a lot? Do y'all think that's high?

49. 0:25:14

    What, what was that question?

50. 0:25:16

    Um, on page 97, you got 15 members.

51. 0:25:20

    Oh, we...

52. 0:25:23

    If you'd like me to respond.

53. 0:25:25

    Yeah.

54. 0:25:27

    We, so Leg Council modeled this after other finance authorities in the state.

55. 0:25:32

    Right.

56. 0:25:32

    And so that was the typical structure. Um, it's, so that, that explains why. That's the answer.

57. 0:25:40

    Gotcha. You're not married to that? Well, I guess that's the only time we get to change that. The 15 members is li- I'm not trying to kill your bill. I think you got the votes to beat me, but I wanna explain why I have signif- have an issue with it. And then the charter supplement that we pay. So those are my issues. Um, I don't want you to-

58. 0:25:58

    No, no, no

59. 0:25:58

    ... don't feel like you gotta respond, but I do want you to understand that I believe we do put 292 million towards the charter school supplement for, for things like this. Is there a cap on the amount that can be contributed to the fund?

60. 0:26:11

    No. From out, from external sources?

61. 0:26:13

    Or the state.

62. 0:26:14

    Um, no. There's no cap.

63. 0:26:18

    What is your model, I don't think it's written in here, and if it is, I missed it, for interest? Can it, can these loans be forgiven, or you expect that there'll be at an interest rate to be paid back?

64. 0:26:27

    Repaid.

65. 0:26:28

    Gotcha. Is that, is that in here?

66. 0:26:30

    It, the authori- there's powers vested in the authority for, to set the loan terms in, in, including repayment terms.

67. 0:26:38

    Gotcha.

68. 0:26:39

    And I think the state does withhold money if they're not repaying it. But then again, if they go bankrupt, then there's liability there, too. So it, it's, there's attempts to, to hold them, um, accountable, I guess.

69. 0:26:53

    The language in here does contemplate a loan, not a grant. So-

70. 0:26:58

    Okay

71. 0:26:58

    ... it would be typical repayment terms.

72. 0:27:00

    Uh, is it-

73. 0:27:00

    In, in fi- in a five-year time period.

74. 0:27:02

    Okay. Just want you to understand where, where I am and why, and don't want you to be surprised by it.

75. 0:27:08

    Would it, would it be all right if I responded to your question about the s- supplement?

76. 0:27:13

    Yeah. The 292 million?

77. 0:27:14

    Yeah.

78. 0:27:14

    Yeah.

79. 0:27:15

    Just a little old 292 million.

80. 0:27:17

    Well, 53 only, to be fair to you. Only 53 of it's our calculational capital.

81. 0:27:21

    Understand.

82. 0:27:22

    Right.

83. 0:27:22

    That, um, that piece is specifically for state charter schools. That's only 50% of the sector, and because state charter schools don't get any local supplement funding, to the chairman's point a minute ago, so to offset those lack of local dollars, they get what's called a state supplement. So that-

84. 0:27:38

    Right

85. 0:27:38

    ... is that supplement funding you're referencing. So it doesn't cover the whole sector. For the schools it does cover, including that 50-plus million in capital funding, those are not, um, while they're, they're contributed as a proxy for capital, the reason that's in the, um, funding formula is because the net total that the, the state charter school funding formula generates was not enough to keep schools viable without some sort of capital supplement. So while it is noted as capital proxy as part of the calculation, um, overall it generates numbers that are thousands of dollars less per student than, uh, local districts receive per pupil.

86. 0:28:20

    And so they're not at liberty to spend it on capital because they have to pay teachers with it. So the, I just wanted to, to make clear, it is a lot of money, and we're grateful for every red cent that you give a charter school. But it, contextualized, I just wanna to note that, um, the average capital cost that any school, public or char- public or public charter incurs about $10 million. And these charter schools, including state charter schools, spend about 12 to 18% of their operating budgets on capital.

87. 0:28:52

    So-

88. 0:28:53

    And we, I'm sorry.

89. 0:28:55

    No, that's not something-

90. 0:28:55

    We estimate that based on the attendance zone, right, of the charter school based on the capital contributions or the expected capital contributions for their traditional schools in that, that catch area for the charter school.

91. 0:29:06

    For high capital districts, there is a bump for those schools and, and for the state charter schools, the 50 that are in state-

92. 0:29:13

    I know

93. 0:29:13

    ... authorization.

94. 0:29:14

    Yeah. I still think you've got the votes to beat me. I just wanted you to understand why.

95. 0:29:18

    I understand.

96. 0:29:19

    Senator Dolezal.

97. 0:29:22

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, to follow up on Chairman Tillery's question, I didn't fully catch this. Would this funding only be available to local charters?

98. 0:29:31

    No, both.

99. 0:29:32

    Okay, both local and state.

100. 0:29:33

     Any charter, state or local, yes.

101. 0:29:34

     Okay. Um, I will, as we're kind of throwing out our thoughts on charters, l- like Chairman Tillery, I love them. I think that the fact that we have state charters is a little crazy because what we're allowing the locals to do is to put up fight on local charter approvals, knowing that they will get more money of their local t- uh, property tax dollars per p- student, and then the state steps in and doubles down because they've refused to approve the charters. I've heard more about charter issue approvals this off session than I have probably the three previous five years combined.

102. 0:30:09

     Um, definitely wanna help you all believe in what you guys are doing. I think that we need reform on the approval process, and I think that all of the state charters, maybe not all, because I know some of them have a statewide attendance zone, but I think the, um, I'll call it a scam. I think the scam of the local systems pushing their local charters off onto the state so that the state picks up the tab and drives the number up to the number that Chairman Tillery is talking about is something that we really, really need to look at how we reform that and fix that because that is, that's a number, that's a big number in our budget that frankly should be a local expense.

103. 0:30:42

     And I'm sure you agree with me.

104. 0:30:43

     We're with you.

105. 0:30:44

     Yeah.

106. 0:30:44

     And my colleague, Donovan Head from the State Charter Schools Commission, is here, and, um, I won't speak for him, but I know that, uh, the commission hopes that one day they work themselves out of a job and that locals approve all the charters and the state doesn't have to.

107. 0:30:59

     All right. Any other questions right now? We've got a number of people signed up to speak. Um, looks like about a half dozen, so we're gonna have to limit it just to a minute or two or, or else a couple of y'all can consolidate.

108. 0:31:16

     Whatever you wanna do.

109. 0:31:17

     They're all for it?

110. 0:31:18

     Yeah, I think everybody's for it here.

111. 0:31:20

     I'm gonna try and talk the Senate down at the bottom.

112. 0:31:22

     Yeah. And, and, and Senator Albers is favoring you right now, he said, but you might talk him out of it if you talk very much. So, um, Buzz Brockway.

113. 0:31:39

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and I, I will be brief. Um, Buzz Brockway. I'm with the Georgia Center for Opportunity, but I'm also one of Speaker Burns' appointees to the State Charter School Commission. And what I wanted to pass on to you all today, um, facilities costs are a continuous problem for our charter schools. The number one reason that our char- that charter schools fail in the state of Georgia is because of facilities costs and bad facility deals that they're forced to sign 'cause of the, as, as the author described, the short-term nature.

114. 0:32:09

     In fact, just today, uh, uh, earlier today in our charter commission meeting, we had to accept, uh, the, uh, surrender of a charter, of a charter school who the main reason they were giving up their charter is that they were in a bad, uh, deal, uh, high interest loan, uh, that's all they could get, uh, f- for their building, and they had to surrender their charter. They were doing fine academically. They, they had 200, 200 kids in that school who now are, are gonna have to go find another school, uh, to attend.

115. 0:32:41

     So I, I th- thank the, uh, uh, Senator Dixon for bringing this bill and appreciate the debate that y'all are having, and I, I hope that you all will pass this bill. So thank you, Mr. Chairman.

116. 0:32:50

     All right. Thank you very much. Bonnie Holiday with the Georgia Charter Schools Association.

117. 0:32:54

     I'll wait. I've already said more than enough.

118. 0:32:56

     Okay. We'll go on to, uh, Michael O'Sullivan.

119. 0:33:00

     I'll, I'll wait as well. I'm his lawyer.

120. 0:33:03

     Okay. Tiana Stevenson.

121. 0:33:12

     Good evening, chair and members. I'm Tiana Stevenson. I'm the founder of the Wright Community School, a 6 through 12 public charter school serving, um, Clayton, DeKalb, and Henry. We were approved to open in 2024, um, supposed to, um, open in 2025, but one obstacle stood in our way, um, that was facilities. Um, the challenge already forced us to defer one year, um, and without a realistic path to safe, affordable financing, it would force u- it could force us to defer again. Um, if that happens, it won't just, uh, delay our opening but delay our children's futures.

122. 0:33:45

     We already have more than 250 applications in our first year, um, and that ripple effect touches hundreds of families counting on a community school built around mastery-based learning, mentorship, dual enrollment opportunities starting in the seventh grade, um, wraparound support, and, um, just provide opportunities that our community needs. So this bill will give students like our, or schools like ours access to financing to build and renovate and open. This bill helps us to keep our promise to the community, so we hope that you vote yes.

123. 0:34:17

     Thank you.

124. 0:34:17

     All right. Thank you. Um, Kristi Beam.

125. 0:34:30

     Hello. Good afternoon, committee members, Chairman. Mr. Chairman, thank you so much. I'm Dr. Kristi Beam, and I'm the founder and CEO for the Academy for Innovation in Medicine. We are a new, um, public state charter school, um, designed to, we will be serving students in grades 6 through 12 opening this fall in Atlanta. Um, and we are partnered with Grady Health System to design, um, uh, students to prepare them for high-demand careers in healthcare.

126. 0:35:04

     Um, so at the Academy for Innovation in Medicine, our mission is very simple. Our mission is to equip Georgia students with the skills, credentials, and confidence to transform community health and to address our critical workforce shortage in healthcare. So our students pursue industry credentials, industry-recognized credentials, engage in hands-on laboratory learning, and build partnerships for healthcare providers. But like many charter schools, our greatest barrier has not been vision or demand. It has been facilities.

127. 0:35:35

     Securing an affordable facility has been our most difficult challenge. There is no funding specifically designed for facilities for charter schools. Finding a safe, functional facility large enough to house a school is a huge lift. We have toured facilities, or at least facilities that would cost us millions and millions of dollars to renovate to make them appropriate for a school. When you're trying to build a school focused on opportunity and workforce readiness, this is a huge burden. So s- s- ah, SB9, f- ah, 498, excuse me, will directly benefit schools like ours to give us access and, to responsible financing so that we can secure appropriate learning facilities, and that means more resources that can be invested back into labs, equipments, teachers, and student support, not into unsustainable financing costs.

128. 0:36:25

     So in Georgia, if we are serious about innovation in education, workforce development, and educational excellence, then we have to be serious about the facilities. Senate Bill, ah, 498 gives schools like ours a realistic path forward. On behalf of the Academy for Innovation in Medicine and the families that we serve, I respectfully ask for your support and a yes vote on SB 498. Thank you.

129. 0:36:48

     All right. Thank you very much. We've got one more, ah, China, and I think it's Cardresh or something. I'm not sure on the, the name.

130. 0:37:00

     Maybe not, or, or I mispronounced it so bad they don't think it's them.

131. 0:37:09

     All right. Um, Senator Dixon, you want to come back up?

132. 0:37:21

     All right. You want to wrap up or entertain any questions or, um... Are there, are there questions from the committee at this point?

133. 0:37:29

     I'd like to make a motion at the appropriate time.

134. 0:37:31

     All right, Senator Albers.

135. 0:37:32

     I would move due pass, uh, Senate Bill 498, LC 49, 2723S.

136. 0:37:38

     Second.

137. 0:37:39

     Got a motion and a second. Is there any discussion? All in favor, raise your hand. All right. Any opposed? It looks like you're unanimous.

138. 0:37:50

     Minus, minus one.

139. 0:37:51

     Oh, no, I'm sorry. You're not unanimous.

140. 0:37:52

     Yeah, minus one.

141. 0:37:54

     Oh. All right.

142. 0:37:57

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, committee members.

143. 0:37:59

     Thanks.

144. 0:38:04

     All right. Uh, Representative Chairman Carson, you want to come up here? We're going to do the, um, House Bill 1199. As you know, every year we update and in some cases conform to the IRS code.

145. 0:38:26

     Thank you.

146. 0:38:27

     And in some cases we don't. Um, and so this year, and you've got a little, uh, a little spreadsheet in there, the, the legal size page in your folder that lists the various items.

147. 0:38:43

     Um, and if, if you look down at the, the last, the next to last line on the big spreadsheet here, you would see that if we conformed to everything they did, um, it would be about 1.4 billion in the first year, another billion in the second year. So the Ho- the House wisely, um, didn't conform on some of these issues. So you'll see on that sheet some previously conformed, some that we didn't conform to.

148. 0:39:14

     Um, and then the, the Senate also, uh, didn't expand, um, on, uh, the, uh, LIHTC as well, so it's, it's slightly different. So the close to revenue neutral on all these items if you look at the bottom, total all conformed, adopted.

149. 0:39:39

     The floor is yours if you have anything you wanted to say on those.

150. 0:39:42

     Uh, I don't know if this... Is it mine? Um, thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. Did you, Mr. Chairman, did you say the House wisely? Did I hear that correctly?

151. 0:39:51

     I, I know. I, I hate to say that, but-

152. 0:39:52

     Can I repeat that to someone on the third floor?

153. 0:39:54

     But we, we did have to, we did have to perfect it, but you were, you were wise-

154. 0:39:58

     Thank you

155. 0:39:59

     ... in not, uh, not taking on 1.4 billion-

156. 0:40:01

     I understand

157. 0:40:01

     ... in costs this year.

158. 0:40:02

     Thank you, Chairman, members of the committee. This is the IRC Conformity Bill. As you know, we, uh, this is a bill that we, it's a housekeeping bill that we do every single year. Uh, there are some states that do automatic conformity. Uh, Georgia's not one of those. We, uh, uh, run the bill like this every single year to update our tax code in Title 48 in regard to what tax changes were made in DC that we are adopting in Georgia and which ones we are not adopting. Um, as the chairman said, I, well, I've got a letter size, but this is basically the spreadsheet that was put together by Fiscal Research Center, correct?

159. 0:40:34

     Yeah.

160. 0:40:34

     And you had it legal size.

161. 0:40:34

     I was going to say my, my font's small, but it's not as f- small as the font he in the Department of Revenue gives me.

162. 0:40:39

     Okay, fair enough.

163. 0:40:40

     So it's a little bit bigger in the handout.

164. 0:40:41

     I also had, uh, it may be a little bit easier to read, but I put together, I don't know if it was distributed, but I have a, I think-

165. 0:40:46

     I think it is distributed.

166. 0:40:47

     Okay.

167. 0:40:47

     Everybody's got it.

168. 0:40:48

     Uh, I have the, basically a two-page letter in regard to what provisions, uh, are we conforming to versus not for both individuals and businesses as well as which section of H.R.1, that's the big beautiful bill that was signed by the president in July, uh, and a, a description of

169. 0:41:07

     Those, uh, code sections. So happy to answer any questions, but this is a housekeeping measure. We have a number of my, uh, CPA brethren that are looking to get this done so we can process tax returns.

170. 0:41:20

     All right. Thank you. And, and as you said, um, some states conform, some don't, some modify like we do. I think it was South Carolina this year that instead of automatically conforming, they look at the cost of it and like, "Oh, we gotta change what we're doing this year-"

171. 0:41:36

     Mm-hmm

172. 0:41:36

     ... because it was gonna be a, a massive cost. Um, any questions on the bill? We've got a LC 59-0378S, s- uh, substitute to House Bill 1199. Senator Albers-

173. 0:41:50

     Motion to pass

174. 0:41:50

     ... got a motion to pass. Is there a second? Got a second. Any discussion? All in favor, raise your hand.

175. 0:41:59

     Got Blake back.

176. 0:42:01

     All right. Any opposed?

177. 0:42:05

     No, uh, uh, two opposed? We're not opposed. Oh, you're not opposed. Y'all were in favor. I'm not opposed. Okay, great. Then s- I think it's unanimous then.

178. 0:42:13

     Y'all get to get it open.

179. 0:42:15

     All right. Motion carries.

180. 0:42:17

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Members of the committee-

181. 0:42:19

     I'm, I'm covering it over in the Senate side if that's okay with you-

182. 0:42:21

     Okay. Very good

183. 0:42:21

     ... this time.

184. 0:42:23

     Who carries it? You?

185. 0:42:24

     I am, yeah.

186. 0:42:27

     All right. We've got one more bill. Uh, Senator Gooch, you can do that from your desk or from up there, whatever is your preference.

187. 0:42:35

     It's very quick, so I'll just sit right here if that's all right.

188. 0:42:39

     All right. Go ahead.

189. 0:42:40

     So Senate Bill 465 deals with a term called a large scale project. Georgia Develop- Department of Economic Development goes out and recruits big projects, uh, around the country. Manufacturing typically is what they target, and they bring them to Georgia, and they incentivize them by this tax credit. It's been on the books for many, many years. The minimum criteria is that they have to create 1,800 full-time permanent jobs, and they have to spend $600 million on that project.

190. 0:43:12

     So that's the, the minimum threshold to qualify for the tax credit. So tax credit is $5,250 per year for the employer or the business entity. This bill just simply requires that the employer hires Georgia and US citizens and not illegal aliens. If they hire an illegal alien, then that employee would not qualify, the company would not qualify for that tax credit for that employee. So it's all the bill does, it just disqualifies that tax credit if they hire an illegal.

191. 0:43:48

     All right. Senator, uh, Orrock.

192. 0:43:51

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, Senator, y- y- y- y- what about an alien that's legal? You, you did, you didn't cover-

193. 0:44:02

     I said an illegal alien

194. 0:44:04

     ... uh, uh-

195. 0:44:04

     There is no such thing-

196. 0:44:05

     You said that, uh, you know, Americans, Georgians, and then-

197. 0:44:07

     An, an-

198. 0:44:07

     ... illegal aliens

199. 0:44:08

     ... an, an-

200. 0:44:08

     There's another category of aliens

201. 0:44:09

     ... illegal, if they are not a legal citizen of the United States, they would not qualify for the tax credit with this change. Uh, the companies are already required to use E-Verification, and they're required to get proper government documentation to ensure that they're, um, citizens, but there's no, uh, repercussions if they fail to do so. This bill just basically claws back that tax credit if the company fails to follow the laws.

202. 0:44:37

     A- a- and the law, again, that they're required of, uh, i- in terms of the origin of the employee is what?

203. 0:44:44

     The, the requirement of the employer to qualify for the tax credit is to hire a bonafide US citizen, not an illegal.

204. 0:44:56

     Well, there's another category of

205. 0:44:59

     Not in this code section there's not. So the Department of Revenue's in the room. We can ask Joseph or Kenzie to come up if you'd like. But it's either you're either legal or you're illegal. I don't know of any quasi-legal status in employment. You've, you have E-Verify verification processes and other documentation requirements as promulgated by the Department of Revenue, and they have to follow those in order to qualify for this grant. This change to this code simply says, "If you hire an illegal, you do not qualify for that grant for that employee." $5,250 a year tax credit to the business should be not awarded, should not be awarded if they're hiring illegals that come to this country-

206. 0:45:41

     It w-

207. 0:45:41

     ... without permission.

208. 0:45:42

     So you have people over here on a, a worker's visa or something-

209. 0:45:45

     They, they would-

210. 0:45:46

     ... I would think they would be fine.

211. 0:45:47

     If they're full-time, if they have no end date. So it's not for temporary employees. They have to be a full-time employee-

212. 0:45:52

     Understood

213. 0:45:53

     ... with no end date codified or in the contract-

214. 0:45:56

     Right

215. 0:45:56

     ... for their employment. And they have to be provided health insurance. Either they pay for it themselves or the company prova- provides the insurance with partial payment. That's all part of the current code. We're not changing any of that. So this is a benefit to employ people that live in this state, and it's a good benefit. It's been v- very helpful to rural Georgia, creating a lot of manufacturing jobs. We're not trying to hurt the b- the en- the economic development community. We're not trying to hurt job creation in Georgia, but we are trying to ensure that everyone that's working and getting this tax credit is a legal citizen of this country.

216. 0:46:32

     All right. I think Senator Tillery was next.

217. 0:46:35

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I had a question for legislative council. When, when does this credit sunset?

218. 0:46:44

     It's a, it's a six-year program, and so there's literally no sunset because the next project-

219. 0:46:50

     And the question too is-

220. 0:46:51

     ... may not come for five years.

221. 0:46:52

     That's what I'm wondering about the major, um-

222. 0:46:57

     It's in the, it's in the current code.

223. 0:46:58

     Right. That's what I'm asking. We, we did a sunset provision on all the bills in 476. So I was wondering if this was one that does not have a sunset currently. If so, thanks to you for opening it up. We can now sunset it.

224. 0:47:09

     You wouldn't wanna do that, surely.

225. 0:47:11

     Yes, I would.

226. 0:47:11

     Oh, no.

227. 0:47:13

     Yes, I would

228. 0:47:16

     Doesn't mean it's ending

229. 0:47:17

     Doesn't, not

230. 0:47:17

     ... it means it gets looked at

231. 0:47:18

     ... it's not a category of your, in your bill.

232. 0:47:22

     Please, please.

233. 0:47:24

     We'll go to Senator Dolezal while we're looking at that issue. Go ahead.

234. 0:47:28

     Thank you, Chairman. Um, question for Senator Gooch.

235. 0:47:31

     Yes, sir.

236. 0:47:32

     Does this just remove the credit for the illegal alien or does this remove the credit for the entire business enterprise?

237. 0:47:38

     It would... Well, if you go s- some of these projects take multiple years to develop and to build out, and so the employee credits are accumulative. So year one, they may hire 200 employees, year two, 400, year three, 600, up to 1,800. They have this full five or six-year window to get the employment numbers. If they don't hit the target, then they have to, they have a claw back provision with the Department of Revenue. They would lose those credits. But if I... To get to your point, if you punish them for every employee, all 1,800 employees, because somebody gave falsified documentation, then you would put that company at risk of maybe millions of dollars over the course of five or six years.

238. 0:48:21

     And so this bill basically disqualifies that employee tax credit for the company. Does that make sense?

239. 0:48:28

     Yeah, I don't know how you could be against that really.

240. 0:48:30

     Say again.

241. 0:48:31

     I don't know how, how anybody could be against that.

242. 0:48:33

     Yeah.

243. 0:48:34

     All right. Senator Harbin.

244. 0:48:36

     Uh, yes, sir, Senator Gooch. Question, this is 1,800 employees. Does that also count, like, subcontractors or-

245. 0:48:43

     Only if they're full-time employees working 35 hours a week or more, and there's no end date through their performing contract. And so a subcontract employee may be hired to do a fixed job for two weeks.

246. 0:48:56

     Right.

247. 0:48:56

     They would not qualify.

248. 0:48:56

     They would not qualify.

249. 0:48:57

     These are full-time. Typically, the intent is full-time manufacturing jobs.

250. 0:49:01

     Gotcha. Okay.

251. 0:49:02

     And you can pick three or four around the state that you know of. There's less than 15 currently in the state.

252. 0:49:08

     Okay.

253. 0:49:08

     Maybe around 10, to be exact, so.

254. 0:49:10

     So subs don't count.

255. 0:49:11

     No.

256. 0:49:11

     It has to be a direct.

257. 0:49:12

     That's correct.

258. 0:49:13

     Okay. Very good. Thank you, sir.

259. 0:49:15

     I got a question.

260. 0:49:17

     All right, go ahead.

261. 0:49:18

     Uh, just a question for Senator Gooch. Senator, y- you may not know this. This is in the current code, but when a business gets this credit and that credit, it cedes their income tax liability, they're able to use that then to offset withholding.

262. 0:49:30

     There is, there is a carry forward for their quarterly payments.

263. 0:49:33

     Right.

264. 0:49:33

     That's right.

265. 0:49:33

     For the withholding.

266. 0:49:34

     That's right.

267. 0:49:35

     So does that mean they're able to take their employees' tax dollars and not submit those then to Atlanta?

268. 0:49:41

     Uh, that's a question for the Department of Revenue. I wouldn't want to give CPA advice on that. Billy might know.

269. 0:49:48

     Can't they then use that against withholding?

270. 0:49:51

     It's a, it's a credit toward the future quarterly estimated payments.

271. 0:49:55

     They'll have to do the what?

272. 0:49:59

     I- i- if you're gonna speak, come up to the mic, if you would. I know you're trying to hide back there.

273. 0:50:03

     Mr. Chairman, can I, Mr. Chairman, can I just remind everybody we're talking about-

274. 0:50:07

     I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure-

275. 0:50:08

     ... illegal immigrants

276. 0:50:09

     ... but I would need to verify that

277. 0:50:09

     No, I... S- sit down and get, and get the mic close to you.

278. 0:50:13

     Okay.

279. 0:50:13

     Tell it, tell everybody who you are. We know-

280. 0:50:14

     Uh, Kelsey Finn, DOR. I was gonna say, I'm pretty sure they can take against withholding, but I do want to verify that-

281. 0:50:19

     Right

282. 0:50:19

     ... 'cause there's certain credits that don't have that in the code.

283. 0:50:22

     Well, that's what it looks like on line 18 in the underlying code for code, code section 48-7-103, I think's withholding. Help me understand that correctly. That means that an employer-

284. 0:50:31

     Mm-hmm

285. 0:50:31

     ... can take an employee's portion of payroll taxes-

286. 0:50:36

     And apply it to-

287. 0:50:36

     ... and keep them? And-

288. 0:50:38

     Yeah, and apply it to the withholding tax.

289. 0:50:39

     What?

290. 0:50:40

     How is that possible?

291. 0:50:41

     Not the employee, not the employee portion.

292. 0:50:42

     Yes, the employee portion.

293. 0:50:45

     Their-

294. 0:50:45

     Yes, exactly.

295. 0:50:45

     They can apply the credit to their withholding responsibilities.

296. 0:50:49

     That's right. Yes.

297. 0:50:49

     I just think that, that breeds of the, the crony credits that we've talked about before, and I... Since Senator Gooch was so kind to open this code section, I, I would suggest that that would be something we look at striking since we're now in it.

298. 0:51:05

     All right, Senator Orrock, while we're looking over that.

299. 0:51:08

     Tha- uh, thank you so much. The, um, term illegal alien on 41, uh, as it's defined in the code section, w- w- you gonna have them answer that, Senator Gooch? I've, I've, I-

300. 0:51:22

     What section is it?

301. 0:51:24

     On line, line, uh, 40-

302. 0:51:26

     1611201

303. 0:51:27

     ... 4343. This is where the reference to the illegal alien. This is what's-

304. 0:51:31

     Sure

305. 0:51:31

     ... being added to the statute, uh, as defined in code section 1611201. Uh, do we, do we need to know how it's defined? Because-

306. 0:51:41

     No.

307. 0:51:41

     There are aliens that aren't illegal. Isn't that correct? Do, are, are we all on the same page?

308. 0:51:46

     So I'm gonna, I'm gonna have leg counsel come up and give you that at, at my mic here.

309. 0:51:50

     Thank you.

310. 0:51:52

     Talk into the mic please.

311. 0:51:52

     In code section 1611201, this is under paragraph two of subsection A, illegal alien means a person who is verified by the federal government to be present in the United States in violation of federal immigration law.

312. 0:52:08

     Right. Right. And so there are aliens that are not illegal, and, uh, I, I don't-

313. 0:52:14

     They, they are, but, but these are in violation of law. These are illegal aliens.

314. 0:52:17

     Oh, I, that, that, that's right. That's what I'm-

315. 0:52:19

     Yeah

316. 0:52:19

     ... uh, but I, I just under- Maybe I misunderstood you, Senator, about, uh, it's gonna be Georgians and American citizens. The, there's American citizens and there's illegal aliens, but there are aliens that are not citizens and they're not illegal.

317. 0:52:33

     They're, they're legal, legal-

318. 0:52:34

     Right

319. 0:52:34

     ... working residents. You're right. Okay. Senator Dole-

320. 0:52:36

     But that's my point

321. 0:52:37

     ... Senator Dolezal.

322. 0:52:39

     What's the answer to that then?

323. 0:52:40

     He, he just gave you the answer.

324. 0:52:42

     I, I'm just chuckling. Nobody over here has a problem identifying what an illegal alien is. I mean, it's somebody who's in the country illegally. All that he's doing is precluding those who are in the country illegally from getting the credit. So as it relates to-

325. 0:52:54

     I understand

326. 0:52:54

     ... either legal immigrants or United States citizens, it doesn't apply.

327. 0:52:58

     Right.

328. 0:52:58

     But-

329. 0:52:59

     But my, my, my, my, uh, uh, I may have confused what Senator Gooch said, that it was either an American, uh, that, that it was only American citizens. It can be people that are not American citizens, but they're not illegal aliens. They're aliens here

330. 0:53:17

     And the, and this is only dealing, this is only dealing with-

331. 0:53:19

     And Trump has declassified a lot of that information soon on the aliens, by the way. That's some of the news.

332. 0:53:24

     I didn't, I didn't hear that joke you just told. What'd you say?

333. 0:53:27

     There's about to be some declassified information on the other aliens that apparently have visited America.

334. 0:53:33

     This must be serious.

335. 0:53:33

     Chairman, I had a, I did have a question.

336. 0:53:35

     All right, go ahead with your question.

337. 0:53:38

     Um, the c- the ... And, and, uh, Chairman Tillery kind of was, I think, was in the same vein. This credit now has me intrigued 'cause I didn't know that we did this. And Senator Gooch, you may or may not know, the 5250's a one-time credit, or is it annual?

338. 0:53:53

     It's an annual credit for five years.

339. 0:53:54

     Okay. Um-

340. 0:53:56

     It's $25,000.

341. 0:53:59

     Okay. And it, it's per employee regardless of ... And, and did we get an answer on the sunset? 'Cause I do wonder if, while we're here, if we wanna sunset this thing.

342. 0:54:07

     The, the b- the-

343. 0:54:08

     Step up

344. 0:54:08

     ... the individual business-

345. 0:54:10

     Down below

346. 0:54:10

     ... gets it for five years, and so.

347. 0:54:12

     I've, I've just reviewed the entirety of that code section, and I have not been able to locate or identify a sunset provision.

348. 0:54:21

     And a- a- again, a sunset doesn't mean that it's being stopped. It means it's being evaluated on a periodic basis-

349. 0:54:27

     Uh-huh

350. 0:54:28

     ... similar to zero base budgeting or something like that-

351. 0:54:31

     Yeah

352. 0:54:31

     ... where every once in a while we wanna evaluate things. Um.

353. 0:54:37

     And to be clear, Mr. Chairman, we're not sunsetting the alien provision of Senator Gooch. We're sunsetting the provision of whether or not we should give $25,000 per job to these types of s- of, of investments.

354. 0:54:54

     All right. Um, Senator Harbin, you got one more comment here.

355. 0:54:58

     Am, am I cor- if I'm correct, if we go 1,800 times, uh, 52 five, we're talking about $9 million times five years. Am I correct? If they had 1,800 employees-

356. 0:55:10

     I, I, sounds, sounds like your math is right

357. 0:55:11

     ... a $2,500 credit. Is that, is that correct? So it's about $47 million, something like that.

358. 0:55:15

     He said yes.

359. 0:55:16

     I did the math pretty well.

360. 0:55:18

     1,800 jobs.

361. 0:55:18

     All right. Senator Albers.

362. 0:55:20

     I, I love your bill, uh, Senator Gooch.

363. 0:55:22

     Thank you.

364. 0:55:22

     I think, uh, good points are made up, though, about a sunset. It's always been the posture of this Senate that we have a r- rolling five-year sunset, and I'm hoping you might be amenable to putting that in there.

365. 0:55:30

     It's, it's not gonna hurt my feelings if you put that in there. Just make sure it doesn't impact the, the business that already qualifies for the credit. Let it run its course in the five years. So if-

366. 0:55:40

     Correct

367. 0:55:41

     ... if the sunset hits in year two-

368. 0:55:43

     Sure, they continue out.

369. 0:55:44

     Right, so.

370. 0:55:44

     No, that makes perfect sense. Yeah.

371. 0:55:45

     Yeah.

372. 0:55:45

     Great.

373. 0:55:45

     And that's fine.

374. 0:55:46

     We can, uh, word that, uh, appropriately.

375. 0:55:49

     All right. So, um, I don't think we've got any more discussion on this, so, uh, we've gotta see if, if there is a, uh, motion first.

376. 0:55:59

     Do pass.

377. 0:56:00

     We've got a motion. Is there a second? Second, Senator Hickman.

378. 0:56:04

     Amendment.

379. 0:56:05

     All right, an amendment from Senator Albers.

380. 0:56:07

     Thank you. I'm gonna ask our friends at the legislative council, uh, Mr. Alvey, to help me, uh, that, uh, this credit, uh, will be sunset effective July 1st, 2031, uh, with the exception of those who are currently receiving the credit will continue it through the end of the original term.

381. 0:56:27

     The business enterprises.

382. 0:56:29

     Business enterprises.

383. 0:56:30

     That'll go out a while then.

384. 0:56:30

     He, he will word that properly.

385. 0:56:32

     If I could have that a little bit more slowly so we can ...

386. 0:56:36

     Slow down.

387. 0:56:36

     Slow down.

388. 0:56:37

     Okay.

389. 0:56:39

     That's worth a chuckle.

390. 0:56:40

     We are going to sunset this bill effective July 1st, 2031, but allow an exception for those to continue to receive it, these business enterprises, if they are already in process. So if they are in the five-year process, they will continue it to the end of what we promised them to begin with. Does that make sense?

391. 0:57:02

     Yes, sir.

392. 0:57:03

     Great. So moved.

393. 0:57:06

     We've got a motion. Senator Tillery.

394. 0:57:08

     Second.

395. 0:57:09

     Second by Senator Tillery. Any discussion on the amendment? So first we'll take up the amendment. All those in favor of the amendment, raise your hand. And any opposed. Unanimous, so now we're back to the underlying bill.

396. 0:57:27

     Mr.

397. 0:57:27

     All right, we've got another amendment.

398. 0:57:28

     As it relates to the provision I talked about where you're having carryovers that can be used to literally, you're collecting money from your employees on their withholding, but you don't have to contribute that to the state, that, I have a fundamental problem with that. I think that that causes a problem, and honestly makes the job, the job feel like less of a benefit to Georgia because Georgia is not gonna make at least what currently is levied as an income tax about it. So I would suggest that we strike on line 16 after the comma, strike the comma, and then the words, "The excess may be taken as a credit against such business enterprises' quarterly or monthly payment under Code Section 48-7-103," and then it would just end with a period in line 16.

399. 0:58:16

     The, the purpose would be allow them to keep it, let it roll over, but they shouldn't be able to use that to offset the withholdings that they've taken from the employee-

400. 0:58:26

     Double-dipping

401. 0:58:26

     ... instead of paying in that money to Atlanta.

402. 0:58:29

     Second.

403. 0:58:31

     So we've got another amendment, and you're wanting to end on line 16 with a period after year and delete the rest of that sentence. Is that correct?

404. 0:58:47

     Is that correct?

405. 0:58:48

     Yes, and I'm sorry.

406. 0:58:49

     So, so you wanna end line 16 where it's got year there at the end, that would be a period-

407. 0:58:53

     Period

408. 0:58:53

     ... and then delete the rest of that sentence.

409. 0:58:55

     Yes, sir.

410. 0:58:55

     Okay. We've got a motion and a second on amendment number two here, I guess we'll say. Any discussion on this amendment? All in favor of amendment number two raise your hand. Any opposed? One opposed. Uh, motion carries. We're back to the underlying bill as amended. All those in favor of this bill, raise your hand. Any opposed.

411. 0:59:24

     Good job, Goochie.

412. 0:59:26

     All right. Motion passes unanimously. Uh, last item of the day. It went quicker than I could have expected, and meeting's adjourned.

413. 0:59:35

     Like it, man.