Comité Agriculture & Consumer Affairs de la Cámara de Representantes, 5 de marzo de 2026

Transcripción

289 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:15:47

   Um, I'll call this meeting, whoa. I'll call this, um, meeting to order. Is that more volume okay? Okay. Um, thank you, committee, for being here on, uh, committee day. Uh, we're fast approaching, uh, crossover tomorrow. So we've got some other business, uh, that, uh, came back to us. Some bills that, uh, as Anna said, just keep on giving. So, um, uh, but I will, uh, ask, uh, Vice Chair, uh, Joe Campbell to open us up with a prayer.

2. 0:16:26

   I'll bow heads please. Father, we just thank you for this day. We thank you for this opportunity to, uh, represent you with the state and with the people. We pray your blessing on that, pray your blessing on this meeting today. Pray that we follow you in all, all the way that you lead us. In Jesus' name, amen.

3. 0:16:45

   Thank you, uh, Joe. Um, before we get into, uh, HB, uh, 947, uh, I wanna ask, uh, Secretary David Hudson, uh, what number are you?

4. 0:16:57

   Uh, 25.

5. 0:16:59

   Um, uh, to say a few words. I've seen some red, uh, jackets around this, uh, building this morning.

6. 0:17:04

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Yes, if, uh, y'all around the Capitol today, we got the, uh, Georgia Young Farmers Association in here visiting today. Uh, like I said, it's a great organization representing agriculture around the state. Uh, I had the fortunate opportunity to serve on the state board, getting to know a lot of these folks, uh, around the state. So please take time to, uh, just to have some good conversation and a handshake with them, and, and as we all do, support agriculture. But I'd also, uh, Mr. Chairman, if you allow me, uh, Representative Howard and I, we're fortunate today to have a guest with us. It's our, uh, Carroll County District Five Commissioner, Ben Hicks.

7. 0:17:36

   Back here, he, uh, he, uh, like I said, he's the one with the cowboy cap on. So like I said, I appreciate him being here with us today also. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

8. 0:17:44

   Well, thank you. I see, uh, my young farmer from Crawford County, Dale Baxley, over there in the corner. Thank you. And he brought a group from Crawford County in middle Georgia. A brand-new, uh, young farmer, um, from, uh, Bibb County was here earlier. I don't know if he's here. There he is. Thank you. And, uh, doing a great job there. Um, and, um, uh, Representative O'Steen.

9. 0:18:07

   Thank you so much, Mr. Chair. I just wanna recognize my young farmer here, he's Spencer Highsmith, and he brought a student. Got JT back here. Glad to have him here from Coffee County.

10. 0:18:18

    Okay. Great program. Appreciate, uh, my fellow colleagues supporting, uh, that program, uh, through the years. Um, um, so we'll get right to, uh, we got two bills this morning that were sent back to us, um, from, um, rules for some, uh, a little adjustment. And I will call on Chairman Momtahan to, uh, present, uh, HB 947.

11. 0:19:09

    Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, members. Um, y'all have been very generous with your time on this bill. I know that, uh, this bill's come up quite a few times. I learned something, though, about a certain type of produce, and that's an asparagus, and I didn't know this, but when you plant it in the ground, it takes a while to start your yield, to get anything out of it, but then it just keeps popping on up. So we may have to, uh, just name this the asparagus bill after a while. Uh...

12. 0:19:41

    So, uh, let's make sure what LC number we're working on that's in everyone's, uh-

13. 0:19:45

    Yes, sir. That's, uh, LC 46-1494S. Okay. So Mr. Chairman, committee members, we've been walking through this bill, I think, several times, and I think everybody understands both the impetus of the bill, the summary, the major, uh, parts and pieces and functions of this bill. But what I want to address a few key, uh, features that we've changed, uh, that I think are important to Georgians. Look, it's important that we get this policy right for the Georgians that need this help the most, uh, and make sure we don't, we don't, or we, we mitigate as many of, of the unintended consequences, uh, as are po- uh, possible.

14. 0:20:33

    I want to take you first to, uh, the number one. This is section 49-4-23. Uh, the bill includes now an exemption for households composed entirely of elderly or disabled individuals from the shortened certification periods applied to certain high-risk cases. So y'all remember, we had the, uh, the, the groups with net zero income. Uh, so under the bill, households with unstable circumstances such as those with zero income or able-bodied adults without dependents may be subject to shorter certification periods, so eligibility can be reviewed more frequently.

15. 0:21:10

    However, households where all adult members, uh, who are elderly or disabled typically receive stable income sources such as Social Security or disability benefits. And because their circumstances rarely change, the legislation exempts those households from the shortened recertification cycle. That is under, uh, 49-4-23. And now you'll find the line if you'd like.

16. 0:21:48

    That's correct. Page four, line 72

17. 0:21:52

    Okay. Uh, number two, under, uh, section 49-4-23(3). So this bill also strengthens the notice requirements that must be provided to households when verification documents are missing. Uh, under this provision, if eligibility documentation has not been submitted, the department must provide clear written notice identifying exactly what documents or information are required to complete the verification process. This notice has to be sent at least 15 days before the end of the verification period, ensuring the households have a good opportunity to respond and submit the necessary documentation.

18. 0:22:33

    This change will strengthen the procedural fairness while also protecting the state during federal SNAP quality control reviews where vague or incomplete notices can actually cause eligibility errors be attributed to the state, excuse me, rather than the applicant. And so let's kinda talk about that. If the state does not send a specific notice to a recipient before the recertification or verification, then that becomes a state error.

19. 0:23:05

    And so that's something we wanted to make sure that if we are sending notices to people about the recertification, uh, and their eligibility, that we are sending very specific notices to make sure that the state does not adopt, uh, that error, uh, on its, on its own accord. Again, remember that the impetus of this is to reduce the error rate. Number three, a pre-authorization accuracy checklist. Um, another administrative safeguard added to the bill is the creation of a pre-authorization accuracy checklist for SNAP eligibility determinations.

20. 0:23:40

    Before benefits are finalized, the department must verify key eligibility components through either second-party review or automated validation. These checks include gross, uh, gross earned and unearned income, household composition, shelter and utility deductions. So the purpose of that is to identify and correct eligibility errors before benefits are issues, issued, which helps prevent improper payments that would otherwise count against Georgia's federal SNAP error rate.

21. 0:24:13

    Very important, the legislation's now also ensuring that these additional verification pr- procedures do not delay federally required expedited service timelines like D-SNAP. Okay. Number four, under Section 49-4-24, the bill also improves the way the department uses certain government records to identify eligibility changes. Specifically, the department is authorized to treat death records from the Department of Public Health and incarceration records from the Department of Corrections as verified upon receipt.

22. 0:24:48

    Because these records reliably indicate when an individual is no longer eligible for SNAP benefits, this provision allows the department to act quickly to suspend or terminate benefits when it's appropriate. At the same time, the bill maintains federal compliance by clarifying that wage and employment data cannot be used as an automatic verification without providing the household notice and an opportunity to respond as required by federal SNAP regulations.

23. 0:25:17

    These administrative improvements ensure that, that the bill both protects taxpayers and operates within the federal program rules while improving the accuracy of eligibility determinations. With that, committee, Mr. Chairman, that is the changes to House Bill 947.

24. 0:25:37

    Okay. Um, got a question, um, Chairman, um, Representative Taylor.

25. 0:25:44

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and good morning.

26. 0:25:45

    Hi, good morning.

27. 0:25:47

    Um, so the amendments are not, that, not what's underlined. Am I understanding that correctly?

28. 0:25:55

    Th- that's correct, right. So, uh, as we work through this bill, everything that's underlined is new, so there are different sections as outlined by the section rather than the line number. We can go back if you wish. We'd have to do a little searching. But I, I did it by the section number.

29. 0:26:09

    Right. Well, I meant, you kinda... There's no way you covered all of the, the changes that I'm looking at. But specifically, on line 92, where you're saying that the ver- the verification requirement's not completed during... Can you define expedited? What would be an, an expedited case that would, um, impact that second month's of benefits?

30. 0:26:31

    Yeah, we can have DHS if they, if, if we could to... I wanna make sure I'm right on this, but I understand somebody's sick or loses a job and they need immediate assistance for food, they could fi- they could file for an expedited, uh, SNAP benefit.

31. 0:26:46

    Okay. So if... And, and moving on to that-

32. 0:26:49

    Right

33. 0:26:49

    ... if I may, Mr. Chairman. Um, again, and let's just say they don't provide all the documentation.

34. 0:26:55

    Mm-hmm.

35. 0:26:55

    And there's a written notice that giving them fif- 15 days of notice, um, to the end of the... Can you describe how you get 15 days to the 30-day when you're already in a month, when you're already receiving benefits in that month?

36. 0:27:10

    That's right.

37. 0:27:10

    I, I guess what I'm, I'm concerned about is if they, if you send... They're getting benefits the first month. They give it, take them 15 days to let them know that they have not provided all the proper documentation.

38. 0:27:21

    Mm-hmm.

39. 0:27:22

    And then they're just eliminated. They may get, they, they may be cut off before they even are notif- get to receive the notification that they're about to be cut off.

40. 0:27:30

    Yeah. So under the expedited, but they're under the understanding that they have to turn in those documents, right? So the 15 days is a reminder. It's, it's, "Hey, we're gonna give you this expedited. You have told us that you meet the qualifications. We're now giving you SNAP benefits," right? At, that's the point at which it starts the shot clock. It ain't the 15 days. The 15 days is a reminder, really, right?

41. 0:27:54

    Oh, okay.

42. 0:27:55

    Is, is a, "Hey, you need to get these documents to us." And Now in this bill, and I think the change that we've incorporated is, that it has to be very specific language. So for example, I could not tell you, uh, I see that you've got expedited benefits, but you don't qualify. And what are you gonna do? You're gonna say, "Well, what do I need to do? There's all these rules and there's all these types of documents that I need to provide. Which documents? And to whom do I need to provide them? And to whom do I, do I need to get them from?" And so I think what the legislation's saying is, we have to, and, and, and the onus is on the state in this matter, and that is that we must provide specific language, and that's federal law, to the recipient so that it does not become a state error in that case.

43. 0:28:47

    If we don't give sp- specific guidance, that actually becomes a state error. When they go back and review the case during the au- during that audit, uh, it's gonna say, you know, "Well, you didn't give them specific guidance, so now this is a state error." And we wanna avoid that.

44. 0:29:02

    I, I get that. I understand what we're, the goal is.

45. 0:29:05

    Yeah.

46. 0:29:05

    I'm just concerned about the loopholes in the communication between the recipient and the, um, the, uh, department issuing those benefits, because it seems like it's a little-

47. 0:29:18

    Oh, I wanna clarify-

48. 0:29:19

    Just on the expedited

49. 0:29:20

    ... right.

50. 0:29:20

    Just on the... But I'm fine.

51. 0:29:21

    Yeah.

52. 0:29:21

    Just, just in that expedited situation.

53. 0:29:23

    Again, I would say that it is incumbent upon the recipient at the time of application to provide that information. This is a bit of latitude that's given to that recipient so that we can both give them the, the benefits that they have, uh, that they're duly entitled to. But the same time recognizing that we do have to have this information at such time. Here's, here's the reality. If we give an expedited benefit and we can't verify that information, it's gonna create an error rate.

54. 0:29:58

    And again, I wanna kind of ground everybody in some truth, and that is, if we continue to have high error rates, it's gonna impact the SNAP program.

55. 0:30:07

    Mm-hmm.

56. 0:30:08

    So we can move and we can try to adjust this, that, and try to see where we can move the suspenders on this bill, but at the end of the day, rules are rules. And if we don't abide by them, it's gonna impact the SNAP program. And we just cannot afford that for Georgia families.

57. 0:30:26

    What happens to that recipient if they cannot verify that information? They've received two months of benefits.

58. 0:30:32

    If... Well, under this bill, if they do not verify those documents, if they're already given that leniency to say, "We're gonna give you expedited benefits," and they don't verify them, they're not gonna be able to get second month's benefits.

59. 0:30:45

    But there are no penalties? No- Will they have to repay or...?

60. 0:30:49

    Not that I'm aware of.

61. 0:30:50

    Okay.

62. 0:30:50

    No, ma'am.

63. 0:30:51

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

64. 0:30:52

    Okay. We got, uh, a couple more questions, and we'll move on. Uh, Representative Willis.

65. 0:30:57

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Good morning, Rep. Momtahan.

66. 0:31:00

    Good morning.

67. 0:31:00

    I just have a few questions.

68. 0:31:01

    Sure thing.

69. 0:31:02

    Thank you for the continued effort to improve this bill. We know how critical this is for the State of Georgia-

70. 0:31:07

    Mm-hmm

71. 0:31:08

    ... and whom these benefits impact.

72. 0:31:10

    Mm-hmm.

73. 0:31:10

    And, um, we've kind of rushed through the changes. I see the lines. I have specific questions-

74. 0:31:15

    Sure

75. 0:31:16

    ... uh, regarding the asset test. Is that language still included in this bill? And if so, could you point me to it?

76. 0:31:23

    Let's see. The asset test, I believe you're talking about broad-based categorical eligibility. Is that correct?

77. 0:31:28

    Yes, sir.

78. 0:31:28

    Okay.

79. 0:31:28

    Yes, sir.

80. 0:31:29

    So broad-based categorical eligibility is, uh, no longer, uh, admitted under the SNAP program. It is a very large part of our state's error rate. The reason for that is if right now I'll, I'm getting eligibility through another category, whether that be TAMP or whether that be WIC, um, we're finding that, that the folks who are applying to those programs, in a lot of cases, not all, but in a lot of cases, are not otherwise eligible for SNAP.

81. 0:32:04

    They just aren't. And so what ends up happening is that that becomes a state error. Now, as to the asset test, the assets are, the first two vehicles are exempt. So if it's a vehicle that's used as a primary way to get to and from work, it's totally exempt from, from this. That's under current DHS rules to date. Uh, and that is also reflected, uh, here in the policy.

82. 0:32:33

    And a follow-up if I may, Mr. Chairman.

83. 0:32:35

    Go ahead.

84. 0:32:37

    So in plain speak-

85. 0:32:39

    Sure

86. 0:32:39

    ... the asset test still exists within this bill? Yes?

87. 0:32:43

    For three or more vehicles.

88. 0:32:45

    Three or more vehicles.

89. 0:32:46

    Yeah. So if I have a third vehicle that's not, you know... Three or more vehicles, that's right. So if I have a vehicle that's used for work, if my spouse has a vehicle that's used for work-

90. 0:32:56

    Yes, sir

91. 0:32:57

    ... those are exempt. If I have a third vehicle, uh, for example, I have a vehicle, my wife has a vehicle-

92. 0:33:03

    Yes

93. 0:33:03

    ... I also have an '84 El Camino.

94. 0:33:05

    Yes.

95. 0:33:06

    Under SNAP rules, I could not have my '84 El Camino. It's got a ZZ4 350 high output motor in it. It's got a Corvette transmission and a locker rear end. Not permissible under SNAP rules.

96. 0:33:19

    Understood. Um, my constituents don't have that souped-up El Camino, but many of them that need these benefits live in housing where multiple people, uh, live in the home, and there are more than two or three vehic- vehicles that are utilized to get to work, uh, not an additional, um, appreciating asset of a collectible vehicle. That's one of my concerns. And then lastly from me, and thank you-

97. 0:33:45

    Sure

98. 0:33:45

    ... for entertaining me, um, the, uh, require- requirement for verification of citizenship and birth certificates, is that still in the bill? And if so, could you point me to that?

99. 0:33:56

    The verification and birth certificates?

100. 0:33:57

     Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

101. 0:33:58

     And what was the other question? I'm sorry.

102. 0:34:00

     Uh, that was it.

103. 0:34:01

     Representative Camp.

104. 0:34:03

     217?

105. 0:34:03

     Right.

106. 0:34:04

     Okay.

107. 0:34:05

     217. Yeah, so those are federal guidelines. We, we, you know, we've got to make sure that we are verifying the information, uh, that's necessary to make a person eligible. So the rules as to the eligibility are broadly set by the federal government.

108. 0:34:22

     Yes.

109. 0:34:22

     All we're doing is verifying that eligibility on the state level. If we don't, and they are not eligible, and we allow them to be on SNAP, it goes to the error rate. That error rate is gonna impact SNAP families, of which I was one growing up, as a child receiving a SNAP food stamps back then. It's gonna impact those families. And I'll just simply say that Georgia cannot afford to have those impacts on our SNAP families.

110. 0:34:53

     I receive that. My last question, and thank you so much.

111. 0:34:55

     Thank you.

112. 0:34:55

     And thank you, Mr. Chairman.

113. 0:34:56

     Absolutely.

114. 0:34:57

     Is, so there are federal guidelines right now that, that do this citizenship verification, correct?

115. 0:35:03

     That's correct. There's-

116. 0:35:04

     Is that accurate?

117. 0:35:04

     There's a, there's a, there's two, I think, categories. I think it is both Cuban and Haitian immigrants during a certain time period. Those are the two only non-citizens that may be, and I think they are technically citizens or some sort of

118. 0:35:17

     Yes, sir. So if I'm a citizen of Georgia, and I'm currently receiving SNAP benefits, I have federally been verified, correct?

119. 0:35:26

     Uh-

120. 0:35:26

     Already? If I'm receiving the benefits, just based upon what you just said, just for edification. If I'm in Georgia and I'm receiving SNAP benefits, I have already gone through the federal, uh, certification of my eligibility, correct?

121. 0:35:38

     So Georgia runs the eligibility, right?

122. 0:35:40

     Okay.

123. 0:35:40

     We don't set the guidelines onto who is eligible per se, right? Those, those are set by the federal government.

124. 0:35:46

     Yes, sir.

125. 0:35:46

     All we say is, do they fit within those guidelines?

126. 0:35:50

     Okay.

127. 0:35:50

     Yes or no. And if they don't, if they are, if they are not duly entitled to these benefits, and, and we make them th- our own error a recipient, it's gonna cause a calamity in the state budget. Let me explain that to you. Up to 6%, we don't have to pay any call backs to the federal government under the one big beautiful bill. Between 6 and 10%, we have to pay 10%, okay, of our SNAP benefits that we received through the federal farm bill.

128. 0:36:27

     It's about $3.4 billion. We'd have to pay 10%. Anything over 10% has a 15% callback provision of $3.4 billion. Estimated error rate today is 15.5%. Total impact to the state's budget is $500 million. Now, I don't know if you guys ever watched any of these doomsday movies where they see the meteor about to strike.

129. 0:36:54

     Yes.

130. 0:36:54

     We see it in the sky, and the skyscrapers have started to get impacted by the small meteoroids that are just starting to hit the ground. That's where we are. There's about to be a great wave that crashes over the state of Georgia in our budget. It's gonna impact SNAP families. It's gonna impact the state budget, and it's something that we simply cannot afford.

131. 0:37:18

     I thank you for the clarification. My concern is that-

132. 0:37:21

     Uh, look, look-

133. 0:37:21

     ... Line 217 is US citizenship, but lines 90 is citizenship or immigration status. And I just have constituents in my district that are elders that may not be able to put their hands on their birth certificate. You know? My, my grandmother wasn't even given a birth certificate. It was written in a Bible. Um, so tho- those are my concerns. Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

134. 0:37:40

     Just to just respond, if I may. That is, there are processes to make sure that you can get a birth certificate here in the state of Georgia. Those are not contemplated in this bill, but there are those services available here in the state of Georgia. I w- I would recommend that if you have a constituent that you refer them to the vital records in your county so they can get a, a certified copy of that record.

135. 0:38:06

     Okay. Uh, Representative Camp.

136. 0:38:08

     Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Chairman Momtahan, for bringing this bill. I attended a conference in November where this was discussed in depth, um, the SNAP impact on states.

137. 0:38:18

     Sure.

138. 0:38:18

     Uh, my question for you is, does this bill satisfy what would be required federally to keep us in compliance so we are not dinged in the farm bill and for SNAP benefits?

139. 0:38:31

     Yeah. Leah knows what she speaks. This is an important issue that must be contemplated and passed as soon as possible.

140. 0:38:38

     Okay. Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time, I'd like to make a motion.

141. 0:38:41

     Okay. Um, hold that motion just for one or two more questions from the committee. Uh, Representative Carter, uh, if you could, uh, ask, uh, one, uh, one question and then if anybody else who's got something directly related. We've heard this bill, uh, a couple of times, so, uh, Representative, uh, Carter.

142. 0:39:00

     Thank you, Chairman. Um, thank you, sir, for continuing to work on this. Um, I don't really feel like you answered her question. I'm a yes or no kind of girl. But my question is about can you... I wanna make sure that, um, lines, uh, 236 down to 246, 'cause I'm reading it and I'm contemplating in my head what that really looks like. Now, I, I don't usually do sodas and stuff, but, like, I know people go into QT-

143. 0:39:32

     Mm-hmm

144. 0:39:32

     ... and they may get a soda or a slush and they may mix different things. That's customizing. So, um, can you give me, uh, an example of what would work, what wouldn't work? So as we're communicating to our constituents, 'cause we've heard different things that we understand that. 'Cause at first it started out with Starbucks and Krogers-

145. 0:39:51

     Mm-hmm

146. 0:39:51

     ... and now it's different things. But I just wanna make sure that I'm clear 'cause this right here opens the door for a lot of different options for- specializes so that-

147. 0:40:01

     Yeah. Thank you, Representative. I think you're talking about line 239 where it says, "SNAP benefits shall not be used to purchase food or beverages in a food service establishment, or beverages customized on site for immediate individual consumption at the time of purchase, including those that are hot beverages which are prepared, mixed, or blended in a food service establishment, or cold beverages which are prepared, mixed, or blended in a food service establishment." Is that correct?

148. 0:40:23

     Yeah.

149. 0:40:23

     Those are already banned by the federal government.

150. 0:40:26

     No, I just wanted an example so that-

151. 0:40:28

     Okay. All right

152. 0:40:28

     ... 'cause again, I heard something about Starbucks inside a Kroger-

153. 0:40:31

     Yeah. Right

154. 0:40:31

     ... and that didn't make sense to me.

155. 0:40:33

     Yeah. So here's... Let me, let me kind of give you the, the idea. Um, I think maybe a... to color that in for you, and that is if I go into a Ingles supermarket-

156. 0:40:46

     Okay

157. 0:40:46

     ... okay, or a supermarket, I shouldn't say any names, a supermarket of sorts, and inside that supermarket there lies a, a beverage counter, which I think we put here, beverages customized on site. And that is a cold beverage that's made with ice. Okay?

158. 0:41:08

     Okay.

159. 0:41:11

     And it is made for immediate consumption at such beverage counter. That is not federally SNAP eligible.

160. 0:41:19

     Mm-hmm.

161. 0:41:20

     I think what we were seeing, though, was that if those beverage counters were not using their own point of sale system, but they were using the point of sale system of the store-

162. 0:41:30

     Mm-hmm

163. 0:41:31

     ... in and of itself, they were able to ring up items that were not otherwise SNAP eligible. Now, why does that matter? Is if it's not a SNAP eligible food, it could have impacts on the state because I think the federal government is looking down and saying, "Hey, guys, we're, we're offering you food." I, I... If I may, I'd like edification, Mr. Chairman.

164. 0:41:56

     Go ahead quickly.

165. 0:41:57

     Thank you. This program was made to, to deliver nutritious foods to families in need.

166. 0:42:06

     Mm-hmm.

167. 0:42:06

     Okay? And that was that at that point in time, that power for, for the homes who would be recipients for these was likely subsidized or reduced. Housing was likely subsidized or reduced. And so they were delivering food at a subsidized or reduced rate with one re-mandate, and that was that the person who was the recipient of this was putting the labor in to prepare such food.

168. 0:42:36

     And so I think having to go to a beverage counter to get a premium drink goes against the grain of what the contract was when SNAP was created in this country. You know?

169. 0:42:51

     So, so I think-

170. 0:42:52

     Like-

171. 0:42:52

     ... okay, I understand that, but what... I guess what I-

172. 0:42:54

     Okay

173. 0:42:54

     ... didn't understand was that is it the technology that's allowing people to be able to do that? That's what I was trying to understand and kind of get cleared up.

174. 0:43:03

     I think we make it very clear that they cannot buy those kinds here in this. We're, we're doubling down on that federal language that says you cannot provide those kinds of premium beverages to folks with SNAP benefits.

175. 0:43:15

     That's a different-

176. 0:43:15

     Of course, they're-

177. 0:43:16

     Okay

178. 0:43:16

     ... happy-

179. 0:43:16

     So it's the technology.

180. 0:43:17

     Sure it is.

181. 0:43:18

     Thank you.

182. 0:43:18

     Thank you.

183. 0:43:19

     Okay. Um, we, we, we are, we're halfway through this meeting, and, uh, I think it's time. Uh, we've heard this several times. Thank you, Chairman.

184. 0:43:28

     Thank you.

185. 0:43:28

     And, um, and thank you for your work to make sure Georgia, uh, improves its error rate. It's critical. Uh, change is hard sometimes, and, uh, I know this bill has some details that, that might be new and different. But thank you for your work. Thank you for, um, engaging with all the stakeholders and many others, uh, on trying to perfect this bill and, uh, and these changes, um, are, are in this sub. And so at the pr- at the time, I think, uh, Chairman Camp, did you, uh, um...

186. 0:44:02

     Would you like to make a motion?

187. 0:44:03

     Yes, sir. Thank you very much. I'd like to make a motion to pass.

188. 0:44:06

     We have a, uh, do pass. Uh, hear a second? Um.

189. 0:44:14

     Second.

190. 0:44:14

     Uh, any other, uh, discussion, uh, comments from the, um, from the committee? Hearing none, all, uh, in favor, uh, of do pass of HB 947 signify by signifying by s- uh, raising your right hand.

191. 0:44:36

     Opposed? Uh, two, three. Uh, messi- um, bill, uh, does pass. Uh, thank you. Thank you, Chairman.

192. 0:44:47

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

193. 0:44:47

     Uh, moves back to Rules. And, uh, good luck tomorrow, uh, or, uh... Does Rules meet today?

194. 0:44:55

     Yes, sir, they do. I, I don't have a copy on me.

195. 0:44:59

     See you anyway.

196. 0:44:59

     They do know of them, I believe, Mr. Chairman.

197. 0:45:01

     And tomorrow. Uh, so thank you, committee. Um, uh, at this time I'd, uh, we, uh, have one more bill. I'd like to ask, uh, my, uh, great interns that's here with us this year, uh, Owen, uh, to pass out a committee sub for, um,

198. 0:45:27

     for HB 1224. Representative Barrett, do you want to come to, um, the table mic? We'll get these passed out. Uh, committee, you've also, uh, seen this bill multiple times. Um, R- Representative, um, Barrett, i- if you could refresh the committee very quickly. Um, and, um, I don't think you have a copy of this, uh, committee sub.

199. 0:45:57

     Yes, sir. They'll give you one as well. Thank you. Um, but it, uh... This committee sub o- only has one, one small change.

200. 0:46:09

     Thank you.

201. 0:46:11

     Thanks so much. Okay.

202. 0:46:21

     Has everybody got a copy of, um, LC443509S?

203. 0:46:32

     Our consumer... Um, I see a question from, uh, Chairman Corbett. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, I'd like to call to question.

204. 0:46:47

     At the proper time, uh, Chairman. I, I'm sure, uh, Representative Barrett would, uh, would like to go ahead, but, uh, I, I think, uh, we need to hear. And, uh, we have some friends, uh, in the audience that, uh, agreed to come and, uh, and, uh, share a little bit about this, uh, about this bill. So, um, Representative Barrett. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman. And since I couldn't find my cloak of invisibility today, uh, I'm- ... here I am. Ladies and gentlemen, thank y'all for hearing, hearing this issue yet again.

205. 0:47:20

     Um, as you, as you may recall, this, this deals with automatic renewals of contracts and subscriptions. This is an issue I, I've been sort of keen on for about five years, um, uh, long before I ever got elected to this, to this body. Um, over time, I've tried to come up with some fundamental ideas, some very basic ideas that would bring some, some incremental relief to consumers. This is an issue that affects virtually every family in the state, frankly, the whole country, uh, especially profound impact on our seniors.

206. 0:47:54

     Um, what we have tried to do is come up... You know, when you get a subscription or if you sign into a long-term contract, frequently there's language out there that lets them simply set you up for an automatic renewal. You think you're buying something for a year, for example, and, but you're signing up for an automatic renewal, and they can simply notify you via email that you've got a, a renewal coming up, and your price can increase. Maybe it doesn't increase, maybe it does, and they notify you via email. And if you don't see the email, uh, you kind of get, get caught up in that, and you're, you're on the hook for the next term.

207. 0:48:31

     So I've introduced many different options to sort of bring some basic incremental relief to consumers. At first, I said, "Well, you can offer me automatic renewal. I'd just like to have the option to go ahead and terminate on the front end so I don't have to put it on my calendar. I don't have to remember it, and there's a window of opportunity to come in and, and notify you that I don't wanna renew." So that was an option. You know, just let me tell you on the front end. I want it to end at the end. Um, I came up with a second option that says, "If you automatically renew me, this is only for long-term contracts, a year or more.

208. 0:49:06

     And if you increase my price, you ought to have to get my consent." That's option two. I had another option. I said, "With a long-term renewal, a year or more, and a price increase," originally I said 50%, "you ought to give me a grace period, say 45 days, for me to come in and see my bank statement, see my credit card statement, and say, 'Oh, egads, I don't want that. I liked it at $100. I don't like it at $450.' So I'd like to r- get a, a pro rata refund for the month that I was there, but I'd like to get my money back." Some, some companies are, are...

209. 0:49:44

     They absolutely allow that. They say, "Okay, we'll give you a refund. And oh, by the way, here's another offer you might like," and they, they have the opportunity to resell me. It's really about opting in versus opting out, taking the onus off of you and your family or the 86-year-old, your 86-year-old grandmother who's not paying attention to these things. This has happened to me a lot. I mean, I've, I've missed these things often. We have a good friend in senior leadership in this, in, in the legislature who had a $250 renewal for Evite recently that they said, "Oh, I didn't know I was gonna get that." And, uh, and, and that $250 renewal and that annual contract, that would not even be affected by this legislation because, because there wasn't a price increase.

210. 0:50:33

     Uh, Representative Barrett. Yes, sir. I, I appreciate this, and, and this is... We've heard this before. Yes, sir. Let's speak to the bill. Yes, sir. Could you go and, and let's- This bill- I, I wanna be very transparent with, with the committee. They've seen it before. Yes, sir. Let's talk about what's in this bill, the, the, you know, and what it doesn't have. Yes, sir. What, what, what's in here, and then, uh, we got some friends in the audience that wanna speak to their concerns, so. This is a- Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. This is a very simple bill. The, the, uh, the actual law that exists today is right there in front of you.

211. 0:51:06

     The underlined sections on, uh, on page two, lines 32 to 39, simply, you'll notice that those lines look an awful lot like, look like lines from 21 to 31. Currently, the law says if it's a long-term contract over two years, over two years, uh, they have to get your consent. They have to notify you, but they also have to get your consent to renew you because it's a long-term contract. The problem is most business-to-consumer contracts are not over two years.

212. 0:51:38

     They're usually month-to-month or, or annual contracts. All this does is says, "For those contracts for a year or more, when you raise my price up, uh, th- then you've got to get my consent, just like you have to with contracts over two years." That's it. Okay. That's what I wanted to hear, and I know this bill is a compromise. It does... It's a first step, um, in, in helping our consumers out here, and in, and in a, um, intent to try to keep this bill moving.

213. 0:52:11

     Uh, uh, since it was, uh, sent back, uh, line 33 was changed to, uh, 50 instead of, uh, 25 as it left here, just to be frank to the committee, as y'all know this. So thank you. I won't hold any questions here a minute. I've got some folks in the audience that would like to give... I, I realized-

214. 0:52:30

     Over the course of the last couple of days that this committee had not heard from some interested, uh, business, uh, partners in our state about some unintended consequences maybe that this bill might pose. So I asked them to come this morning to say a quick, uh, few words if they could, uh, about, uh, about this. And I'd like to ask Mason, uh, Rainey from the, uh, Technology Association of Georgia to, uh, come to the, uh, podium, Mike.

215. 0:52:59

     Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I'm Mason Rainey with the Technology Association of Georgia, or TAG. TAG is a membership trade association representing a little over 1,200 technology and tech-enabled companies throughout the state. On behalf of our members, we just wanna thank the sponsor for engaging with all the stakeholders throughout this process, as well as Chairman Dickey's leadership, and we are here to express our members' support for this substitute, raising it from 25% up to 50%. And I believe I'm joined here by my colleagues from the Georgia Chamber as well.

216. 0:53:32

     Thank, Mr- Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I'm Kevin Petraccone. I, I represent the Georgia Chamber. In addition to the members we share with TAG, we also represent many other industries that may be affected, and many of our members had concerns with previous versions, but we are neutral on this committee substitute, and we wanna thank Representative Carter for his willingness to work with industry, and Chairman Dickey for his leadership on this issue. Thank you.

217. 0:53:56

     Thank you. And, uh, Misty Holcomb from, um, Entertainment Software Association. Thank you for being here.

218. 0:54:02

     Hi, good morning. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Uh, my name is Misty Holcomb, and I represent the Entertainment Software Association. I would like to thank Representative Barrett for w- for working with us and talking. Uh, we echo the sentiments of the Georgia Chamber and TAG on, uh, regarding the 50%, and, uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for your leadership on this.

219. 0:54:24

     Uh, we have one more. Uh, John Watson, would you like to say a few words?

220. 0:54:29

     Yes, sir. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Committee. John Watson represe- representing Amazon this morning, and our almost 31,000, uh, Georgia employees here. Thank you for everything you do, first of all. Um, uh, big picture, um, Amazon, I stand on behalf of Amazon because what my understanding and the, the many of the conversations that Representative Barrett and I have had have been around bad actors. Um, as you made reference, sir, just a moment ago, $100 to a $400 increase.

221. 0:55:00

     Um, and I think all of us, um, are consumers. All of us have parents. All of us have those that we're dealing with that for anyone, that's a big jump. Um, from my perspective and from my clients' perspective, that's not Amazon. Um, and in many instances, a committee like this, and all the General Assembly, v- very frankly, are confronted with situations whereby you are trying to cut out and hurt bad actors. Um, but that process also requires a balance whereby the broad brushstroke of an initiative or a statute does not bring in good actors.

222. 0:55:37

     And, uh, my pitch to you this morning on behalf of Amazon would be that a 50% threshold from our instance and our, um, perspective, a, is a balance between those of us that try to operate efficiently and effectively and provide good customer service while again weeding out those that, uh, have a different business strategy. So Mr. Chairman, thank you for the opportunity to speak.

223. 0:56:00

     Thank you for that input. Uh, I appreciate it. It is a process up here, and, uh, thank you, um, um, Representative Barrett for working, uh, with this group and, uh, me and, uh, others, uh, through this process, and the rules committee. Uh, Representative Mathis.

224. 0:56:18

     If it's the proper time, I'd like to make the motion please, sir.

225. 0:56:20

     Uh, that is the proper time.

226. 0:56:22

     I make a motion to do pass.

227. 0:56:24

     Uh, I hear the motion. Do I hear a second?

228. 0:56:26

     I second.

229. 0:56:26

     Have a second. Any other, um, questions or comments from the committee?

230. 0:56:32

     I would like to

231. 0:56:35

     Excuse me?

232. 0:56:35

     I would like to

233. 0:56:36

     Okay. Representative Donahue, uh, number 26.

234. 0:56:41

     Thank you, Chairman. And Kevin, John, thank you. Thank you for coming on record. I would like to ask, though, the... And my wife, we, it seems like Amazon is every day at our house, sometimes four and five times. Um, with that, how come 25 doesn't work in the business world over 50? I just wanna hear that answer from you guys 'cause I have a lot of constituents that I've dealt with with this, and I just wanna go on record of knowing this.

235. 0:57:09

     Would you-

236. 0:57:10

     Yeah.

237. 0:57:10

     Uh...

238. 0:57:10

     Okay.

239. 0:57:11

     Not a technologist, Representative.

240. 0:57:13

     No, sir, I understand.

241. 0:57:14

     Uh, but I will, I will answer this. The 25, for instance, a Amazon Prime account is approximately $19 a month.

242. 0:57:22

     Yes.

243. 0:57:22

     Um, a 25% increase is, round figure, is $4 a month.

244. 0:57:26

     That's right.

245. 0:57:28

     And so a change of, at the scale that Amazon operates, is real systemic engineering computer change to adapt to any statute that is created. Very frankly, this entire dilemma should be solved by our federal government, I think we all know that-

246. 0:57:46

     Yes, sir

247. 0:57:46

     ... so that there's not a patchwork of initiatives. But we, what 25, from 25 to 50%, to try to answer your question, is provides just some degree of variability that we know that we can have a more predictable outcome because we know our increases don't go frankly to 25, but certainly not to 50%. But it does enable, like for instance with Amazon Prime, we have stacking services whereby someone can go to Amazon Prime, and in that account they then can go perhaps buy HBO or other subscription services.

248. 0:58:20

     It's a fabric of subscriptions, and in this manner, 50% just protects us more greatly in terms of not having to have systemic operational computer changes.

249. 0:58:30

     And thank you very much. And, uh, Kevin, do you want to answer that too? Thank you very much.

250. 0:58:37

     Yeah, I will just say, uh, thank you for the question. On behalf of our members, you know, this affects such a wide range of industries from trash to pest control to newspapers to subscription contracts, that we just felt 50% is kind of a, a good threshold that covers everybody. It... To John's point, a lot of folks stack subscriptions on top of each other as well, so.

251. 0:58:57

     And thank you. And I... And the trash is, is one of the reasons when I first got into this, I had a restaurant that had signed a contract. Contract was $63 a pickup twice a month. With that, after three months, it went to $137. Then after three more, it went to 166. Then I got involved, and we got it back to a five-year $63. I don't get paid to do all this, but I did it because it was the right thing to do. I've done this over about 100 times, and I respect y'all, and I understand $4 isn't a lot.

252. 0:59:30

     I under- My... We're, we're Prime and, you know, all the things Amazon does. I love it, and the chamber, I appreciate where y'all stand, but I just wanna go on record. I mean, I've dealt with this over and over, and everybody doesn't have me or somebody in this committee to go fight for them every day, and that's what we do on this committee. So with that, I've won a lot more than I've lost, but it sure takes me a lot of hours for zero money. But thank you very much. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

253. 0:59:57

     Representative Hagan. Cameron.

254. 1:00:00

     Thank you, Mr. Ch- Chairman. Um, I... While I am going to vote in, in favor of due pass on this bill, I just wanted to go on record also to say that I haven't heard a really compelling explanation from anybody why 25% is not good enough, but 50% is good enough because I, I certainly wanna support our businesses, and I definitely have supported our businesses, but I'm also here to represent consumers and the people who $4 a month may be a very big deal, and I continue to not understand why that's a problem to notify b- them before their prices are increased.

255. 1:00:41

     But I do... I will be voting yes on the bill.

256. 1:00:44

     Representative O'Steen.

257. 1:00:47

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Representative Barrett, we are exhausted with this bill, and I, I yet have heard a, a sufficient reason to do this either because we're, we're here to represent consumers and their best interests. Consumers are constituents and our friends. And as I keep saying, when I signed up for something, I did not mean for them to have access to my debit card to charge me whatever they want to every time an, a renewal comes, a 50% here and a 50%...

258. 1:01:23

     Every year there's a 50% increase. I'm gonna support the bill, but I hope we can figure something else out. Thank you.

259. 1:01:33

     Chairman Jaspers.

260. 1:01:34

     Yeah, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I guess, uh, to the bill sponsor, you know, and the m- people, we are a pro-business state, and I don't think anybody voting against this bill should be deemed as anti-business. I think they'd be as, as, maybe as Chairman Hagan said, pro-consumer. But it's not true that going to 50% will still allow the bad actors to increase these fees at 49% with, with reckless abandon with no, no regard.

261. 1:02:09

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. That, that's absolutely correct, uh, and that's likely what will happen. Um, you... I have no better answer for you than that.

262. 1:02:22

     Well, um, w- we're, um... I'd like to move on to a vote right now. I think it's time. I, I think some, most folks have, have, um, uh, made it known through multiple meetings here. I, I appreciate the support and the patience of this, uh, committee and the process that we, uh, we're in, uh, here, uh, right before, uh... Representative Willis, would you like to say something shortly? One question.

263. 1:02:53

     I would. I would, and thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, we are here for consumer affairs. I wanna thank my colleague, uh, Rep Barrett, for his work on this issue. I have senior parents. We are all caregivers for others. $4 may seem minimal to a Goliath, but when it connects to overdraft fees and when it connects to, uh, more financial hurdles for an individual that's on a fixed income, I don't believe that the concerns of the big business supersede the concerns of our constituents and the consumers of this state, and I'd like to go on record as saying that I appreciate your efforts toward this.

264. 1:03:32

     25% makes a major difference for the majority of Georgians. We do not sit on this committee anti-business. We do not sit on this committee anti-big business. We sit on this committee pro-consumer, and that is what we are here to represent. So I will be voting for this bill, but 50% to protect big business interest and give them a sweet spot, I think is an abomination. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

265. 1:03:55

     Thank you for those comments. Uh, Subcommittee Chairman Cox.

266. 1:04:01

     Thank you, Chairman. Um, Representative Barrett, what's the name of this committee?

267. 1:04:08

     Agriculture and Consumer Affairs.

268. 1:04:11

     Thank you. And how many times have we heard this bill?

269. 1:04:15

     Subcommittee once, uh, committee three times. Yeah.

270. 1:04:18

     And how many times have we had anybody against the 25%?

271. 1:04:23

     None.

272. 1:04:23

     None. Do you know how much roughly the revenue is in the state per year on subscriptions?

273. 1:04:31

     I can only, uh, I, I can only estimate based on my personal things. I probably spend $3,000 a year on subscriptions.

274. 1:04:39

     Okay. So-

275. 1:04:40

     Uh, the ones I know about.

276. 1:04:41

     So last night I ran some numbers or exactly, the ones... So last night I ran some numbers, and then this morning I slept on everything and, and I'm supporting the bill

277. 1:04:52

     Um, because we've got to do something. But I forgot to add in numbers with businesses in the state and their subscriptions. We're talking close to $30 billion a year. 25% gets us at 37.5, 50%'s 45 billion. Each vote that's getting ready to be done here is a $20 million vote that you're each voting on. And I will tell you this, in the districts you represent, this could account for $2.5 million in your community, the district you represent, in increases from 25 to 50.

278. 1:05:28

     But the question I've got here, because this is agriculture and consumer affairs, are there subscriptions on produce?

279. 1:05:38

     No, sir. Not that I'm aware of. I, I guess there's someone out there who's probably w- willing to sell you some oranges every month.

280. 1:05:44

     Actually, there is.

281. 1:05:46

     Actually, there is.

282. 1:05:46

     So let me tell you this. When we're dealing with large businesses, we're taking... We're going to lose consumer confidence because we're taking advantage of people that already are struggling with property tax. This could help alleviate property tax costs. But you know who else it's going to hurt? The farmers in Georgia, because it will be subscriptions to produce that's being produced outside this state and outside this country that will be coming into here. Y'all keep that in mind, because this is also agriculture.

283. 1:06:17

     Thank you.

284. 1:06:19

     Mr. Chairman, I would say that this bill is designed to protect consumers, not to hurt consumers. So I, I, I certainly understand the opportunity cost of not going lower, but this is a consumer protection bill, which is why it's in, uh, consumer affairs. And, uh, let me be perfectly clear, I've been screaming to try to be a champion for consumers and seniors since the minute I got to this body.

285. 1:06:46

     Okay. Time for a vote. Um, all in favor, send this bill back to rules, uh, do, to pass, um, signify by, by saying I. I. Opposed? Nay. Nay. Motion passes. Um, thank you, Chairman Barrett.

286. 1:07:11

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

287. 1:07:11

     And, uh, back to rules.

288. 1:07:14

     Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

289. 1:07:14

     Thank you, committee. Appreciate you, uh, being here this morning.