Comité Regulated Industries and Utilities del Senado, 19 de marzo de 2026

Transcripción

457 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:20:08

   People or members are tied up downstairs in judiciary, but I expect to have a quorum very soon. Um.

2. 0:20:19

   Representative Lim, if you wanna just take this seat in front of the, the mic and be prepared. Soon as I get another member in here, we'll take yours, uh...

3. 0:22:14

   politician.

4. 0:22:15

   Might lose that quorum.

5. 0:22:16

   Don't got it, right?

6. 0:22:17

   Okay, we now have a quorum, so we'll call the Senate Regulated Industries Committee to order. We have two things on our agenda tonight. The first one we already heard briefly was House Bill 641, Representative Lim, uh, and we have already heard testimony. Nobody additional has signed up for that. I'm gonna allow action on your bill today. You and I have disco- discussed one potential change, but, uh, we're not working off a substitute. We're working off your original bill, um, that's in our folders.

7. 0:22:49

   House Bill 641, would you wanna just give a little final summation what you're trying to accomplish and, and with the bill?

8. 0:22:56

   Thank you.

9. 0:22:56

   Can we get you on here? Okay.

10. 0:22:59

    Thank you, Mr. Chair and Committee. I am back here presenting HB 641. We are working off LC56-0591S. To reiterate very quickly, the bill simply states that electric utility suppliers have some written policy regarding handling disconnections for those residential consumers with serious life-threatening conditions that could be aggravated by disconnection, i.e., as I mentioned last time, those with LVADs, ventilators, oxygen concentrators, and those who refrigerate their medicines. We also heard last time the testimony of at least one of these people with LVADs.

11. 0:23:31

    That's Ms. Tina Marzen, who's in the back of the room today. As she testified, simply having a policy and being able to communicate that to the consumer can make a world of difference, as it would have in her case. Georgia Power, Georgia EMC, and Electric Cities remain good with this version of the bill, which I will also reiterate, does not dictate the specifics and allows each supplier to determine the best version of the policy for them. Again, I wanna say thank you to each of them for working with us to, to perfect this language. And with that, I will stand for any questions.

12. 0:23:59

    Okay. And I, I went back and looked at your original bill, which very closely tracked the Georgia Power rule that the Public Service Commission has. And your original version said that the person had to suffer from a serious illness that would be aggravated by the discontinuation of electric service to such consumer. This version before us that passed the House doesn't have that disclaimer.

13. 0:24:30

    You just said somebody with a serious life-threatening conditions.

14. 0:24:33

    Correct.

15. 0:24:34

    Okay. But you're really talking about one of those conditions that would be dangerous for them-

16. 0:24:40

    Yes

17. 0:24:40

    ... to have their electricity cut off, right?

18. 0:24:43

    Correct.

19. 0:24:43

    Okay. Uh, the, the rule that the Public Service Commission has for Georgia Power also requires the person that has the illness or sickness to provide a written statement from a physician, county board of health, hospital, or other medical clinic that identifies their illness and provides the estimated duration that they're gonna suffer from it. So you can't just say, "I'm sick. I don't wanna pay my power bill." You, you would have to have some documentation establishing that, right?

20. 0:25:16

    Correct.

21. 0:25:16

    Okay.

22. 0:25:16

    And that's the... We didn't draft it that way, but that is certainly, per the original language, the underlying intention. And it goes to Senator Summers regarding, um, guardrails and people not taking advantage of the system.

23. 0:25:28

    Yeah, I think that's what, what we're looking to make sure that even your version now that just doesn't require any such policy at all, but just that you would have to provide your written policy to anybody that requested it. Are you okay if that is limited to people that have provided written documentation from a doctor or somebody that they do have a condition that would be threatened by the loss of power?

24. 0:25:56

    Certainly, I would consider that a very friendly amendment.

25. 0:25:57

    The lady that you had the other day was a absolute perfect example of that-

26. 0:26:02

    Exactly

27. 0:26:03

    ... because she had all the devices that she would have some very negative consequences.

28. 0:26:08

    Right.

29. 0:26:09

    Okay.

30. 0:26:09

    And I watched, she was, she certainly had the documentation from-

31. 0:26:13

    Right

32. 0:26:13

    ... medical doctors, et cetera, so it would fit perfectly with the proposal.

33. 0:26:16

    You're fine if they, if these, any company that did, uh, have their written policy did not have to provide it unless somebody showed them written notice that they had such a condition, medical proof of it?

34. 0:26:30

    Yes.

35. 0:26:30

    Okay. Senator Summers, you're recognized for a question.

36. 0:26:32

    And I appreciate that. We, we go with... My, I guess the last thought I had today when we got out was the fact, thank you, Mr. Chair, the last, that, that, um, I know this sounds crazy, but you don't want a bunch of people living in the house getting free electricity. I guess that was my caveat to gaming the system also. That was, and I don't, I think what he just said would probably cover it with a written thing, but I mean, that's, uh, good for 30 days, right? Every 30 days, would you have to renew that, or how would you wanna do that on that amendment?

37. 0:27:02

    I, p- personally, unless the committee feels differently, I still would defer, while adding the language, would still defer to the specific, uh, supplier, the specific utility to determine that. I would imagine most of them would say 30 days. Some might go-

38. 0:27:18

    They could do that

39. 0:27:18

    ... even longer. Some might be shorter.

40. 0:27:19

    It'd be up to them.

41. 0:27:20

    But I, I think the, the-

42. 0:27:22

    No requirement

43. 0:27:23

    ... the utilities have been-

44. 0:27:24

    No requirement.

45. 0:27:25

    Right, have felt pretty comfortable, and we felt pretty comfortable allowing them to do that. So I think saying you have to be able to provide the documentation, I consider that-

46. 0:27:33

    Okay

47. 0:27:33

    ... friendly, and I think that would address-

48. 0:27:35

    Sounds good to me.

49. 0:27:35

    Okay.

50. 0:27:35

    As, as you, as I interpret your bill now, the electricity provider would have to have a written policy, but it could say, you know, "I'm gonna give you five days grace period."

51. 0:27:47

    Or they come along and put whatever.

52. 0:27:49

    That's correct.

53. 0:27:49

    Or they could, could say, "We'll, we'll let you run for six months." It's just whatever they want to.

54. 0:27:54

    That's correct.

55. 0:27:54

    Or they could say, "Our written policy is that we make no, uh, consideration for somebody with health problems. You just gotta realize if you're on our service, you better have your bill paid or..."

56. 0:28:05

    That, that's correct. And just for, for those listening, we feel, a- as Ms. Marsden's example showed, that even being able to produce that and say, "This is our policy," helps consumers to be able to make the right decisions for them. But yes, the answer is yes.

57. 0:28:20

    Yes.

58. 0:28:20

    Senator Ginn, you're recognized for a question.

59. 0:28:22

    Uh, uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Hey, uh, Representative Lim, let me ask you this 'cause one of the things I wanna make sure, you know, there's... Anybody that's in the utility business knows there's always a, a potential for interruption of service-

60. 0:28:35

    Mm-hmm

61. 0:28:36

    ... due to storms or a- any other, uh, m- matter. The, uh, your bill doesn't in any way, uh, you know... And, and I'm always wondering what happens to that person like Ms. Marsden when, you know, we have an ice storm that comes in. You know, we, you're out of, out of service for a week.

62. 0:28:54

    Like what's better.

63. 0:28:55

    The, uh, what, what happens? What does she do to provide for that, that emergency type thing? Because her power consumption for her medical devices would be very small. I'm just kinda curious, you know, and I wish I... She was here to ask, but, you know... Oh, she is here to ask. Okay. Perfect. So the, uh... Oh, you know, d- Ms., Ms. Marsden, would you mind, uh... If it's okay, Mr. Chairman.

64. 0:29:19

    Yeah, no problem.

65. 0:29:19

    The, uh... Have Ms. Marsden come join you at the table here. If you can, Ms. Marsden.

66. 0:29:25

    Kate, I'm bringing the mic to you.

67. 0:29:33

    You can sit right there next to him.

68. 0:29:37

    Is it hard to get through security downstairs?

69. 0:29:39

    Actually, no, they're really good.

70. 0:29:41

    The, uh, M- Ms. Marsden, on, um, I'm curious, if there's a extended power outage, you know, no utility provides perfect service, and we'd all like them to. But the, uh, do you have a standby generator or something that you can, uh, charge your devices with?

71. 0:29:56

    Ironically, after the tornadoes hit Griffin in, what was it? 2023, um, a Griffin firefighter and his wife brought me their generator. Um, we learned during that time period there were not, um, unfortunately, emergency preparedness plans that considered individuals with disabilities under Title II of the Americans with Disabilities Act. Um, I know the city is working now to hire an emergency preparedness awareness officer, um, so that's one of the positive things that came out of that. Um, and the city does not prioritize individuals that require PowerToLive, and that's, you know, that's not something that they're required to do that, um, I don't even think Georgia Power does.

72. 0:30:37

    So if you need PowerToLive, your utilities are turned on just like anybody else that needs power. So they do, um, recommend that you, you know, have an alternative source, um, like the generator, um, because you're right, there can be natural disasters and things that happen where they, you know, they can't control everything.

73. 0:30:57

    Beyond their control.

74. 0:30:58

    They can't control the weather.

75. 0:30:59

    That's, that's what, that's what I wanna make sure is that, you know, and I was just kinda curious 'cause I thought, I thought about your situation and I'm like, you know, you can, you can buy one of these little small, uh, inverter generators for, uh, $500 or less. I, I've seen those. So the, uh... Just wanted to, uh, check. But I, Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time I move do pass.

76. 0:31:19

    All right. Any further questions?

77. 0:31:20

    Second.

78. 0:31:21

    All right, then we have a motion to do pass, and that-

79. 0:31:24

    Withdrawn

80. 0:31:25

    ... that is, um, House Bill 641, which came out as a substitute from the house, LC 56-0591S. Uh, I am going to propose an amendment to that, uh, before we take action on it. Uh, Ben, are you prepared to give me the language?

81. 0:31:45

    Give me two seconds.

82. 0:31:47

    I'm just gonna let you read it because I think it addresses what we've discussed.

83. 0:31:53

    Okay. Uh, the amendment will replace with serious life-threatening conditions-

84. 0:32:01

    What line is that?

85. 0:32:02

    Line 15

86. 0:32:02

    ... on line 15-

87. 0:32:02

    15

88. 0:32:03

    ... with who have a serious life-threatening condition and have provided the electric supplier with a written statement from a physician, county board of health, hospital or a clinic identifying the illness, its expected duration, and certifying that the illness would be, uh, aggravated by a discontinuation of electric service.

89. 0:32:25

    Second.

90. 0:32:26

    Y'all got that?

91. 0:32:27

    Yep.

92. 0:32:27

    That is verbatim from the Public Service Commission rules that apply to Georgia Power.

93. 0:32:33

    Okay.

94. 0:32:34

    A portion of it.

95. 0:32:35

    All right.

96. 0:32:36

    That's the councilor amendment. Is there a second?

97. 0:32:38

    Second.

98. 0:32:38

    Second.

99. 0:32:38

    All right, lots of seconds. Good- ... good work. Any discussion on that? That is a friendly amendment.

100. 0:32:43

     Yes.

101. 0:32:44

     Thank you.

102. 0:32:45

     Okay. All in favor, raise your hand. Don't even get to vote on my own amendment. All right, that passes unanimous. Okay. Now, the, uh, the 641 committee substitute as amended, LC 56-0591S.

103. 0:32:59

     Pass.

104. 0:33:00

     It, yeah, it's already moved to pass, is that-

105. 0:33:02

     I'm, I'm waiting, waiting to go vote.

106. 0:33:04

     All right. Well, let's raise your hand. If you're in favor, raise your hand. All right. It, again, is unanimous. Do you know who you'd like to carry that in the Senate?

107. 0:33:12

     Uh, the chairman or whoever he designates.

108. 0:33:15

     Well, I'm gonna... You got a pick?

109. 0:33:17

     I'll be glad to.

110. 0:33:17

     Frank Ginn is a wonderful senator. He'll do it.

111. 0:33:19

     Thank you, Senator.

112. 0:33:20

     He's very knowledgeable in these matters. We'll make a note of that, and, uh, we'll have you a copy of the amended version so you'll know exactly-

113. 0:33:28

     Yeah

114. 0:33:29

     ... what, what you passed out of our committee. All right. Thank you for being here with us.

115. 0:33:32

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you, committee.

116. 0:33:33

     Mr. Bragg, I've got you here. Jason.

117. 0:33:36

     Yes, sir.

118. 0:33:37

     My understanding, it may have been our offline conversations, is that all of the EMCs but two of them have written policies for addressing these circumstances already.

119. 0:33:47

     About 75% of our... Oh, excuse me-

120. 0:33:49

     Okay

121. 0:33:49

     ... 83% of our members either have a written policy or handle on a case-by-case basis.

122. 0:33:53

     Okay. So this wouldn't really require much effort, and those that don't have one, it would only apply now to people with these life-threatening conditions that have provided documentary proof of that.

123. 0:34:07

     Yes, sir.

124. 0:34:07

     Okay. Y'all good with that?

125. 0:34:09

     Yes, sir.

126. 0:34:09

     Okay. All right. Next on our agenda today is House Bill 1027. Representative Anderson, you are free to either use the podium or the witness chair, whatever you're most comfortable in. All right?

127. 0:34:22

     All right.

128. 0:34:23

     This is our first time hearing the bill. It's a hearing only today. I have reviewed it and had some conversations, uh, with you and, and certain members of, of MEAG about it, so I think we're, we're pretty close to knowing what we wanna do. I didn't want to surprise you with any kind of committee sub before you and I sat down and we discussed the parameters. So if you would just, uh, explain your bill to the committee and, uh, answer any questions. We do have a couple people signed up to be heard as well.

129. 0:34:52

     Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

130. 0:34:53

     All right.

131. 0:34:53

     Thank you very much. I appreciate the opportunity to come before the committee. This is House Bill 1027, LC473866. This is a, a ... It is truly a simple bill. It's a rate protect, uh, rate payer protection bill, and, uh, and if you will, a competitive equity bill. Currently, the 49 members of the Municipal Electric Authority of Georgia are limited to being able to enter into contracts for a duration of only 10 years except for two exceptions.

132. 0:35:26

     Those two exceptions are utility scale solar and wind power generation. Those they can enter into contracts up to 20 years. What we're doing with, uh, 1027 is we're adding a third exception to allow them to enter into retail electric sales contracts for up to 20 years, and this is basically designed to allow them to structure their rates so that their rate payers are protected when they serve large load customers, uh, should that be a, a situation that they, uh, wish to participate in and compete for.

133. 0:36:02

     And, and like I say, the, this restriction is not, the 10-year contract restriction does not exist for the other two large members of the, uh, ITS and, uh, that are governed under the, uh, the acts in Georgia. So we're just, just looking to try to protect the rate payers.

134. 0:36:20

     So y- so is data centers the issue? Or if it's somebody, a large user like that, that you were gonna provide power to?

135. 0:36:28

     Data centers is a category under large load customers. It covers a lot of other large load customers too, but that is kind of the, the category, uh, that is very contemporary. Now, one thing I will point out, uh, the, the contract can only be entered to if it's validated by a superior court pursuant to Code Section 46-3-131 as to its reasonableness and enforceability. So there are protections in here for, uh, for the, uh, the MEAG participant, but also for the customers and the rate payers.

136. 0:37:01

     So do you have the definition of a large load customer?

137. 0:37:06

     The-

138. 0:37:06

     Or is that just some generic term we're using, or is there something that lets us know?

139. 0:37:11

     There's nothing in... That, that's, that's a term that I use. Uh, having a, a utility background, large load customers, we would typically refer to as those customers that, uh, would fall under the customer choice category of a territorial act, uh, which is 900 kW connected or larger. Uh, data centers, of course, are significantly larger than that in most cases, so it would cover those, but it also covers other industrial, uh, customers, air separators, pretty much anything that requires a larger infrastructure to provide the amount of power they need.

140. 0:37:41

     Mr. Chairman.

141. 0:37:43

     Acceptable. L- let's, let's let him finish going through this bill. Are you through? Or-

142. 0:37:47

     Yes, sir.

143. 0:37:47

     Okay. Go ahead. Uh, Senator Ginn, you're recognized for questions.

144. 0:37:50

     Hey, uh, maybe I'm, I'm missing it, but is there anywhere i- in here where it spells out large load customer in your, uh, bill? Uh, 'cause it's ... I know it's not spelled out in code. I went through that when we were working on some, I was working on some legislation the, uh, oh, earlier this year that, uh, fortunately the, uh, oh, Secretary Wright took care of for me on the federal level, so I didn't need it. But for me, the, the, uh, uh, d- does it need to be described, or do we... Why don't we just say any customer choice, uh, load, you know, if, if you, if you want to, because we, we all know it's in law, and, you know, over 900 kW is customer choice or something along those lines.

145. 0:38:30

     Right.

146. 0:38:30

     Do we need to describe that, or is it, is it in here?

147. 0:38:33

     It, it is not in here, and really, again, that's a, a phrase that I'm using because that's typically where we run into the stranded investment issue, okay? Uh, this bill is not limited to that particular type of customer, but, uh, for example, uh, I don't, I don't have a MEAG s- uh, participant in my district, but I've got some areas in my district where there are, uh, smaller customers that require a lot of infrastructure to get to, and in many cases it would be good to be able to have an extended contract up to 20 years, doesn't have to be 20 years, that would allow for the standard rate base recovery of that investment.

148. 0:39:12

     Yeah. It, it, this bill, as I see it, the, uh, would not only protect, uh, the, uh, municipal city, the, and, and their s- uh, rate payers, but also would protect the customer because you'd have a long-term contract that they could know, "Hey, here's what we're doing."

149. 0:39:29

     Exactly. And in that particular case, it would, you know, anything other than something that would require significant upfront capital reimbursement to the utility, then it would allow that to, to fit in within the standard rate structure, so when the utility is doing their cost return analysis on serving a customer, they can actually extend that contract, and it allows them to do more service without giving the customer a big bill up front.

150. 0:39:52

     The reason I also know that is, is municipalities can't go over 10 years on a, on a water service contract, water sewer service contract, and that's one of the things that y- you know, uh, you could see somebody could take advantage of that. After 10 years, they got a customer locked in, you know, it's, it's a good thing, so-

151. 0:40:10

     Yeah

152. 0:40:10

     ... appreciate you bringing the bill.

153. 0:40:11

     Thank you.

154. 0:40:12

     But we wouldn't want you to be able to require smaller customers to have a long-term contract with you unless it's under one of these large load exceptions already, customer choice type thing.

155. 0:40:25

     A- a- and that is true, and there's nothing in the bill that would require that, but it would allow that as an option, uh, should there be a unusual circumstance. And there's ... A- a- at this moment, I'm not ... You know, the, the, the folks sitting next to me may could, could refer-

156. 0:40:39

     We'll give, we'll give them a chance

157. 0:40:39

     ... to answer that.

158. 0:40:40

     Chairman.

159. 0:40:40

     So.

160. 0:40:40

     Yes, sir. Senator Summers, you're recognized for a question.

161. 0:40:43

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, this may be a question for you, Mr. Fuller, if you don't mind. You know, there's 158 counties in Georgia that fall under customer choice. There's one that does not fall under customer choice, and that's Crisp County. Would ... How would we be able to make sure Crisp County would be protected at the same level that we're doing in regards to the 158 counties since it's not a customer choice county?

162. 0:41:08

     If you would use that microphone please. Just pull it over.

163. 0:41:10

     Yeah. Yeah, I think if, if, if it's a customer choice and it's less than 10 years, they can only contract for 10 years.

164. 0:41:20

     Well, it's not a customer choice county.

165. 0:41:21

     Yeah.

166. 0:41:21

     Crisp, Crisp County is not customer choice.

167. 0:41:23

     Yeah. Or if we, if we were to have a large, uh, load customer in Crisp County, it would give us the ability to do the contract for 20 years, and I think it protects the rate payers.

168. 0:41:35

     I mean, it, it, it ... My, my point to you is, and I know where you're going with this, is, is I know there's a data center looked at my area, and we use the word large load customer, and I love the bill, don't get me wrong, but I'm just making sure that they have the same ... All rate payers understand they have the same protection in Crisp County as they do as your 39 other MEAG areas.

169. 0:41:51

     Got it.

170. 0:41:51

     You guys with me on that?

171. 0:41:52

     Yes, sir. If I could ... I'm Pete Daigneault. I'm general counsel for MEAG. The way, the language we are proposing, it would ... the ability to enter into a retail contract would apply to any customer for whom we have to build new generation to serve that customer, and it would apply to Crisp County as well as to anybody else.

172. 0:42:14

     That's what I wanted. Thank you.

173. 0:42:15

     And, and, and what that will allow us to do, by having 20-year contracts between a city and the customer, it allows us to finance a new plant, require the customer to pay 100% of the cost of that plant, pay a margin for the power, but we need to be able to provide the power for 20 years in order to get, in exchange, 100% payment of the cost of that new plant.

174. 0:42:40

     Yeah.

175. 0:42:40

     And then at the end of the 20 years, it comes back to our cities. The plant's paid for. They'll have it for another 30 or 40 years at no cost, and we think it's a tremendous opportunity available right now in the market. But we need to get the ability in these limited circumstances to go up to 20 years to make the business deal work for the lar- for the customer willing to pay for the plant.

176. 0:43:02

     But you, you understood where I was on the, on that, on Crisp County-

177. 0:43:05

     I do

178. 0:43:05

     ... anywhere.

179. 0:43:06

     I do.

180. 0:43:06

     Right.

181. 0:43:07

     I do.

182. 0:43:07

     But that would cover it.

183. 0:43:08

     This is not limited to customer choice.

184. 0:43:09

     That's right. That's, that's-

185. 0:43:10

     Yeah

186. 0:43:11

     ... what I wanted to hear. Thank you.

187. 0:43:11

     Yeah.

188. 0:43:12

     A- and if I may, Mr. Chairman-

189. 0:43:13

     Yes, sir

190. 0:43:14

     ... just to, to kind of further answer that. There, there's really two sections to this bill, section one in title 36, chapter one, section two in title 36, chapter 30. The reason there are two sections of this bill are, uh, well, basically is Crisp County. Crisp County is-

191. 0:43:29

     That one

192. 0:43:29

     ... a member of MEAG. Yes.

193. 0:43:30

     Yeah.

194. 0:43:30

     A member of MEAG, absolutely.

195. 0:43:32

     And there are 49 members of MEAG, if I remember right.

196. 0:43:34

     Correct. Yes.

197. 0:43:35

     49. I said 39. I apologize.

198. 0:43:37

     But you get demerits for that.

199. 0:43:38

     Thank you. Demerits. You done?

200. 0:43:42

     That's what you think.

201. 0:43:43

     You through? Thank you.

202. 0:43:44

     Yes, sir. Thank you. All right. Let's go ahead and hear then from Jim Fuller now, if you want to. I, I could barely hear you last time. Can you just ... Yeah, there you go.

203. 0:43:53

     Okay.

204. 0:43:53

     You walk up with that mic. Give us your ... You signed up to testify about the bill. Tell us your thoughts why you need it, why you want it.

205. 0:44:01

     Yeah. Typically, uh, right now the load to serve the 49 communities that we serve, we're pretty well in balance, and we're getting a lot of requests from, uh, large load customers to, uh, build extra facilities. And the MEAG, uh, power sales agreements, the cities pledge both the revenue of the utilities and their taxing power. And if we were to build a facility, uh, you typically have to finance it over at least 20 years.

206. 0:44:32

     And if we only got the ability to contract for 10 years, that leaves our cities exposed for the back end. And if they were, uh, the large load customer were to, uh, not follow through and vacate, uh, the need for the power, it could be on the backs of our communities. So we want to mirror the debt that we issue with the term of the contract, and that will protect the, the customers. And we've, you know, we've talked to our cities that we're not gonna go out and build new plants unless, uh, we do it in a way that is risk adverse to the community members and the retail and commercial customers.

207. 0:45:08

     So this helps us achieve that objective to do this on a risk-free, free basis. And, you know, we can do this in a way where a small city that wouldn't otherwise have the ability to get involved in a large load customers, we can put it over a bunch of cities. They can jointly finance it, and they'll make the margin. So cities in South Georgia, uh, it's a good opportunity to make good margins and improve their economic viability.

208. 0:45:39

     So who's the contract with?

209. 0:45:42

     Well-

210. 0:45:42

     Just one of the different 49?

211. 0:45:44

     Yeah. We need a s-

212. 0:45:45

     In or out

213. 0:45:45

     ... a sponsoring ... MEAG can't sell retail, so we'd need one of the sponsoring utilities. And, you know, we're, we're hopeful to, to go out and, uh, do a reverse RFP and give people the option to bid in on it. And the ones that's willing to do it with the least risk and the, the most, uh, margins to help our cities, uh, will likely move forward. But this is an important part to get the ability to contract for 20 years.

214. 0:46:13

     Is there anything in the current law that prevents you from require, requiring one of these large load users to pay for the generation cost, the, you know, the new plant that you're gonna have to build?

215. 0:46:27

     Yeah. Not that I'm aware of, but I'll-

216. 0:46:29

     You could do that now if you wanted to.

217. 0:46:30

     There's, there's a practical limitation. In order for the large load customers to agree to pay for the entire cost of the plant plus a margin, we know from talking to them for the last six months they need a 20-year contract. They need the benefit of the power for 20 years-

218. 0:46:48

     Right

219. 0:46:49

     ... for the economics to work.

220. 0:46:50

     So it's on their-

221. 0:46:51

     That's right

222. 0:46:52

     ... for their benefit.

223. 0:46:53

     Yeah.

224. 0:46:53

     Even if they paid the full cost of the building out your new gas-fired plant-

225. 0:46:59

     They, they-

226. 0:47:00

     ... they still wanna make sure that you'll sell it to 'em for 20 years at least.

227. 0:47:02

     Exactly. They, they pay the full cost of the plant. They'll have a contract with a city, uh, that will be a retail contract for 20 years where they'll-

228. 0:47:13

     Yeah

229. 0:47:13

     ... get the energy for 20 years. They'll pay that city market plus a margin, and all of our other cities will be able to participate and take a piece of that transaction. And so the language we're proposing would include that it pertains only to those retail contracts that includes language, um, requiring the new customer to pay for the cost of any new generation required to serve the customer. It's not limited to customer choice.

230. 0:47:44

     It's not limited to size. It's any customer, um, that requires new generation to serve that customer's load, they pay for the new generation. That actually improves our bargaining position with large load customers. We can say, "Hey, you may think we're striking a hard deal here, but it benefits our cities, and it's required by the Georgia Senate." Um, it, it help, helps us in that bargaining position.

231. 0:48:11

     Okay. What's the demand out there? Are you having a lot of potential-

232. 0:48:17

     We're getting-

233. 0:48:17

     ... large load customers inquiring?

234. 0:48:19

     Every week. Every week for the last three months, we probably have scheduled-

235. 0:48:23

     Wow

236. 0:48:23

     ... two phone calls-

237. 0:48:25

     Okay

238. 0:48:25

     ... with different large load customers. But we have held up on moving forward because we wanna make sure we do it right, and there's so much demand that we do a RFP process, and we'll tell every one of those customers, "Give us your best shot," because you only got-

239. 0:48:43

     Yeah

240. 0:48:43

     ... one shot at it, and we'll pick the best deal and offer all 49 of our participants the opportunity to participate in that deal.

241. 0:48:51

     Yeah.

242. 0:48:52

     We see it a- as, as something that we haven't had the opportunity to do in a long time. I mean, this-

243. 0:48:57

     Yeah

244. 0:48:57

     ... could be tremendous for our cities.

245. 0:48:59

     Okay. So you would send that RFP out to Amazon, Google-

246. 0:49:05

     Absolutely. Absolutely

247. 0:49:06

     ... Meta, whoever else is building-

248. 0:49:07

     Yes

249. 0:49:08

     ... AI, open AI, and whoever-

250. 0:49:09

     Give 'em one shot at it

251. 0:49:10

     ... made the best offer.

252. 0:49:11

     We can tell 'em what we've got to offer. We could have up to 1,200 megawatts of power to offer that we can build at Plant Monticello, the retired, um, coal plant. We've got all the natural resources. We've got the pipeline. We've got transmission. It's a great facility to do two new gas-fired plants, and we think we have a tremendous product we can offer to the large load customers and strike the best deal the cities have ever seen.

253. 0:49:37

     Once you build that one or two new gas-fired plants, they could, could, uh, because of the grid, could be giving power to any place, any MEAG city?

254. 0:49:49

     Any MEAG city can serve this load.

255. 0:49:52

     Okay.

256. 0:49:52

     Any MEAG ci- because it's customer choice or large load, any MEAG city could serve it, but it isn't, that isn't the key because whatever MEAG city serves it, they're gonna need backup contracts with all our other cities who wanna participate. And so both the serving city with the retail contract for 20 years and all our other MEAG cities who have participated in this project will share equally-

257. 0:50:18

     Yeah

258. 0:50:18

     ... in the financial terms we negotiate.

259. 0:50:20

     How, how do they share in the contract, share in the, uh, cost of building the new facil- new plant?

260. 0:50:26

     Okay. The, it, it... I've explained this a lot, and I've tried to get it down to-

261. 0:50:31

     Well, it's, it-

262. 0:50:31

     ... just a few sentences. Okay?

263. 0:50:32

     I've got you.

264. 0:50:32

     So bear with me. The way we will do this, we'll strike the deal, MEAG, with the best proposal we get, and then we'll go to all our MEAG cities, and we'll explain what the business deal is. And we'll say, "Y'all have an opportunity to participate. You need to tell us how much you wanna sign up for." And-

265. 0:50:51

     You how much sign up for investment or sign up for providing power?

266. 0:50:53

     Sign up for contracts with MEAG. Yeah, that's how we always operate with new plants. We'll have full faith and credit 50-year contracts with our cities.

267. 0:51:02

     Okay.

268. 0:51:03

     They'll sign up. Let's say a city takes 10% of the project and signs a contract with us for 10%. They're responsible for 10% of the cost. Then that city will enter into an inner participant contract with the city serving the large load customer, and they'll agree to provide their 10% of the output to the sponsoring city in exchange for 10% of the profit of that transaction. That way, we can give our small cities in Georgia an opportunity to participate in this.

269. 0:51:35

     Everybody gets a chance to participate so that one city does not get 100% of the benefit of this deal. It, it might get the tax base if it's located within the city, but on the sale of power, all of our s- we're gonna spread that among all of our cities who want a piece of this-

270. 0:51:53

     Okay

271. 0:51:53

     ... and give 'em all an opportunity. They'll tell us how much they want. We'll structure all the contracts. They'll then convey what they take to the sponsoring city, and as long as that sponsoring city can enter into a 20-year cus- contract with the large load customer, this will all work.

272. 0:52:09

     So, um, w- When's the last time y'all built a gas-powered plant or any kind of power generating facility?

273. 0:52:17

     Well, we built a gas power plant, um, at Plant Wansley about the 2004 time period.

274. 0:52:22

     2004.

275. 0:52:22

     And of course... Yeah, of course, we just have come off of, um, Vogel 3 and 4, where we're-

276. 0:52:28

     Right

277. 0:52:28

     ... a 22.7% owner of Vogel 4. Our efforts, frankly, in the last 10 or 15 years, um, I meant to retire 15 years ago, but Vogel 3 and 4 has kept me here.

278. 0:52:40

     Digging the hole.

279. 0:52:41

     Abso- exactly. Um, but Vogel 3 and 4 turned out to be a great project, and w- that power's gonna be available for 80 years. This comes close in terms of the value.

280. 0:52:53

     Even though your cost was way more than you bargained for up front?

281. 0:52:57

     Yeah, but you know, we laid off 70% of our cost to JA and Power South for 20 years. They're paying 20% of our sh- they're paying 50% of our share of the cost, and they get the power for 20 years. It comes back to our cities in year 21. 50% of the cost has been paid for, and our cities will get it for the next 60 years. Plus, we were able to get the production tax credits, um, approved. We're getting the benefit of that.

282. 0:53:28

     Um, plus when we wound up in litigation with JA, they tried to break that contract. We won, and to settle our claims against them, they agreed to increase the margin they would pay us above 50% of the cost for the benefit of our cities. So frankly, and, and the cost of the debt, which is a big piece when you're, uh, take construction that, for 10 or 12 years and you're financing that, the debt that we incurred was significantly less than what we had projected.

283. 0:53:59

     Hmm.

284. 0:54:00

     And we're really in the kind of the extraordinary position where because of all of that, we can layer in the new cost of Plant Vogel, and our rates stay relatively flat because the existing cost of the older projects are coming off. That's a story we haven't gotten the chance to tell very much, but our cities understand it. We think it's turned out to be a terrific deal.

285. 0:54:23

     Okay. Uh, they ought to be glad you stuck around with them. It's, I don't know that I would want to negotiate against, across the table from you.

286. 0:54:31

     I appreciate you saying that.

287. 0:54:32

     That's, uh-

288. 0:54:33

     Because I gotta get a pay raise tomorrow, so

289. 0:54:35

     Okay. I'll, I'll put in-

290. 0:54:36

     That helps

291. 0:54:36

     ... a good word for you if you think it'll help. Um-

292. 0:54:39

     Mr. President

293. 0:54:40

     ... so let me ask you what a new, um, gas-powered plant cost.

294. 0:54:45

     Rod

295. 0:54:46

     If you're gonna build you one starting tomorrow, what, what would you budget on it?

296. 0:54:50

     You know, it'd be in the neighborhood of a, a billion to a billion two-

297. 0:54:55

     Okay

298. 0:54:55

     ... for a 600, 600, 700 megawatt plant.

299. 0:54:57

     So what if Amazon comes in and says, "We'll give you 1.2 billion to build this plant if you'll build it now and have us online in two years, and then we'll give us a 20-year contract." Then would any of these cities be allowed to participate? There wouldn't be anything to, to-

300. 0:55:14

     Yeah

301. 0:55:14

     ... to have to sign up for as far as the cost, right?

302. 0:55:18

     Well, we would, we would do it in such a way where they take the construction risk so that if the cost went over, uh, a, a billion two, the, the estimate, that they'd be responsible, and they're gonna pay the full freight of the O&M and the fuel cost no matter what it is, and then we get a margin on top of that. So we're trying to do this in a way that none of the risk on the transaction, 'cause we wouldn't build this plant otherwise, comes back to our incumbent cities. 'Cause they're pledging their tax base.

303. 0:55:48

     Yeah, but they wouldn't need to if they didn't have to incur any cost.

304. 0:55:51

     Yeah, but-

305. 0:55:51

     If Amazon's paying the cost...

306. 0:55:53

     But nobody will give you a fixed price contract to build it for 1.1 i- in this market.

307. 0:56:00

     Okay.

308. 0:56:00

     You know? And-

309. 0:56:01

     And no Amazon will give you a blank check saying, "Just tell us what the-

310. 0:56:04

     Yeah

311. 0:56:04

     ... total cost is."

312. 0:56:06

     Yeah.

313. 0:56:07

     'Cause you ought to be able to get a good-

314. 0:56:08

     We don't, we don't anticipate that, but I think I know where you're headed. We're nonprofit. We don't get a dollar profit out of any deal we do. Every dollar that we gain goes to lower the cost of the power we provide to the city. So no matter what deal we structure, no, you know, they pay cash up front, whatever, the benefit of that goes to only the cities that participate in the transaction, and they will have to participate because for us to build a plant, we have to have contracts with our cities.

315. 0:56:41

     Even if somebody else, the customer, is paying the cost-

316. 0:56:44

     Right

317. 0:56:44

     ... we have to have those contracts.

318. 0:56:46

     So they gotta agree for their share of the cost even, even in the hopes that it's zero.

319. 0:56:50

     Exa- exactly.

320. 0:56:51

     Okay.

321. 0:56:52

     Exactly.

322. 0:56:53

     All right, and you have to allow them all to participate.

323. 0:56:56

     We give them all an opportunity.

324. 0:56:57

     What if you're oversubscribed?

325. 0:56:59

     We thought of-

326. 0:57:00

     What if you got 200% demand and you say, "Uh-uh, can't"?

327. 0:57:02

     We thought of that. It's a good question. We had that concern with Vogel 3 and 4 because we gave all the cities an opportunity to participate in our 22.7 interest, and we determined that since this plant is gonna be a Plant Wansley and our cities have been paying for Plant Wansley for 50 years, that we will do a calculation of the amount of the debt that each city has paid over those 50 years as a percentage of the total debt paid by all our cities over the 50 years. And we'll put that as the cap, that they're entitled to go up to that amount.

328. 0:57:38

     If they want more than that amount, then they'll have to wait until we go through the first round of subscription. And if there's leftover amount because pe- people haven't signed up for 100%, then we would re-offer it. But we think that's an equitable way to do it.

329. 0:57:53

     So this deal is for MEAG as the organization, not for any individual members of, of the 49 cities.

330. 0:58:02

     It, because the way we worded it, this deal is for projects that MEAG puts together for the benefit of the cities.

331. 0:58:14

     Okay.

332. 0:58:14

     That's what this deal is for.

333. 0:58:15

     And that's why you have to allow them all to have a shot at it.

334. 0:58:17

     That's right.

335. 0:58:18

     And if they all wanted a piece of it, 'cause it's a real sweet deal that you've negotiated- Then you got to give them an equal share, or d- or is it based on their size?

336. 0:58:27

     On that percentage.

337. 0:58:28

     No, I mean, but let's say do they each get one forty-ninth?

338. 0:58:31

     No.

339. 0:58:32

     Yeah.

340. 0:58:32

     We're saying we would do it by the percentage basis. So let's say a city paid 5%.

341. 0:58:38

     Okay, well, they could get at least one forty-ninth unless they wanted a bigger-

342. 0:58:41

     That, that's-

343. 0:58:42

     ... piece of the pie

344. 0:58:43

     ... yes. Yeah.

345. 0:58:43

     Okay.

346. 0:58:43

     Yeah. They could not exceed-

347. 0:58:45

     Yeah. You can't let-

348. 0:58:45

     ... the percentage unless-

349. 0:58:46

     You can't pick your five favorites and let them-

350. 0:58:48

     Uh

351. 0:58:48

     ... gobble up 20% each.

352. 0:58:50

     We would not last long. Uh, uh, we have to treat all our cities equally-

353. 0:58:55

     Right

354. 0:58:55

     ... regardless of the size, regardless of where they're located. That's what our statute requires us to do, and as a nonprofit, it's, it's easy to do that because we don't get anything out of this other than the service to the cities.

355. 0:59:11

     Okay. Would this give you a competitive advantage over the EMCs if, if a data center was shopping, you know, their customer choice customer and they're looking at Georgia Power and we just passed a bill that impacts them and-

356. 0:59:26

     We-

357. 0:59:26

     ... you know?

358. 0:59:27

     Yeah. We'd have a competitive disadvantage if we're not allowed to finance over the 20 years.

359. 0:59:32

     Okay. They can do that now?

360. 0:59:35

     Not yet.

361. 0:59:36

     Okay. Any other members have questions?

362. 0:59:40

     I do.

363. 0:59:40

     All right. S- Senator Williams, you are recognized.

364. 0:59:43

     Thank you. Uh, my, my-

365. 0:59:45

     Can you just identify who you ... Just identify who you want to answer the question here. You've got Jim and Pete, uh.

366. 0:59:53

     Any, any of the above. If Amazon is going to pay all of the money to build this thing, why don't they just buy the land and build their own power station and build their own building, and wouldn't that be cheaper on them?

367. 1:00:11

     They want power from the grid. If they build their own station, it's behind the grid, so those plants go down, they don't get anything. If it's power coming from the grid, they have backup in case one plant goes down. In fact, what we're offering is power that will not just come from these n- two new facilities. We're offering system power, which means that whatever we offer to the large load customer will be backed up by our fleet of generation units, including the six nuclear power units that we have a share on.

368. 1:00:44

     Now, to do that, we have to increase our total, um, amount of power that the new plants will do, but then we're s- we're making it a good deal to the large load customer. We're saying, "Listen, even if these plants go down, we'll provide you the power from our fleet of, of plants." But to do it themselves, they have to, number one, get into the utility business, and they have to operate those plants behind the grid, whereas any malfunction in that plant, they get nothing.

369. 1:01:14

     Okay. Thank you.

370. 1:01:15

     You can run your own generator and generate all your electricity you want to. You're not-

371. 1:01:19

     Right

372. 1:01:19

     ... limited.

373. 1:01:21

     We'll let him ask you questions in a minute. Do you have other-

374. 1:01:23

     No, sir. No, um, thank you. But thanks.

375. 1:01:26

     Senator Ginn, you're, uh, recognized to respond to the question.

376. 1:01:32

     You know, one of the great things about, about the, uh, power business is, is, uh, any customer, residential, commercial, industrial, can provide their own power if they want to. They, uh... That's in, in federal statute actually, so they, uh, ah, but you do it, ah, at your peril. The reliability, the great thing about the way that, uh, and, and I, I applaud, uh, the legislature back in 1973 for setting up the Territorial Service Act. It makes us a model for any, any state in, in the country that we have the ability to, uh, have an integrated transmission system with parity ownership by all of the, whether it be MEAG or the EMCs or Georgia Power, City of Dalton, to the, uh...

377. 1:02:16

     But that's where, for me, w- we, we got the best of both worlds and, and, uh, you know, I'm, I'm happy to have investments from data centers or other large load customers that want to help in that generation cost, but that's, that's where I applaud the, the bill and I, I'd, I'd love to see us move it today, but it's up to the chairman.

378. 1:02:34

     Well, we're not going to today. This is a hearing only and it's noticed as such. Um, and this doesn't include the provision they have re- they have asked for some changes to the bill to make sure they can recoup the, the, uh, cost of construction up front. So I'm, I'm wanting to make sure, you know, a lot of our discussion earlier this session involving, uh, Georgia Power and their long-term contracts, et cetera, revolved around making certain that we didn't end up putting the burden, the cost of building the new facility and taking on these large loads on your residential customers.

379. 1:03:13

     Would your rate that you charge, uh, for your power be the same for these new large load customers, higher, or lower?

380. 1:03:23

     Well, the, the cities will... It, the way we're, the language we're proposing for your consideration would require for these 20-year contracts for 100% of the cost to be paid by the large load customer. So if you transfer that into a rate, it's going to be a very high rate, um, for that 20-year period.

381. 1:03:49

     Higher than a residential customer?

382. 1:03:51

     Oh, uh, well, you know, i- in a different stratosphere than the residential customer because they're gonna be paying the, the city, the host city, you know, maybe a, a billion point four million dollars to get 600 megawatts, plus they're gonna pay a margin above market-

383. 1:04:14

     Right

384. 1:04:14

     ... for the energy for 20 years. I mean, we're so excited about the opportunity to do this. It's, it, it keeps me up at night to get this done, uh, for the benefit of the cities.

385. 1:04:27

     Well, I, I just, I want to make sure the- Residents of the cities don't get stuck holding the bag. I mean, that's the whole point-

386. 1:04:34

     Yeah

387. 1:04:34

     ... of this entire session, it feels like, for us, is to protect existent current rate payers from some jolt or shock or, you know, somebody leaving them holding the bag, um-

388. 1:04:47

     And that's why we're proposing the language that for any contract of this length, if the legislature approves this contract, that the new customer has to pay, uh, for all of the costs of any generation required to serve that.

389. 1:05:05

     Right. But the question is, when do they pay it? Do they pay it annually over the 20-year period, or do they pay it before year one? That's what I'm trying to get at, 'cause if you got them in a 20-year contract and they go bankrupt or there's... I mean, I remember the dot-com bust, and I know you've got as much gray hair as I do.

390. 1:05:22

     Oh, we don't know who-

391. 1:05:22

     We don't know if this industry can disappear.

392. 1:05:24

     Yeah.

393. 1:05:25

     You know, and before your 20 years is gone, and so, you know.

394. 1:05:28

     And w- and we've, we've worried about that, and our approach is to do the, any debt on a non-recourse basis, just like we did in p- uh, Vogel 3 and 4. For the first 20 years, the bondholders accepted only the credit of JEA and Power South. If they default, there's no responsibility on the part of our cities. The bondholders can only look at JEA and Power South. We will structure this the same way, where the bondholders, if we issue bonds, will look only to the credit of the large load customer under that 20-year contract.

395. 1:06:06

     And if that customer defaults, it's a battle between the bondholders and the customer, but we're, it's non-recourse to MEAG Power, and therefore non-recourse to-

396. 1:06:14

     So who are the bondholders gonna be? The bonds are issued by somebody other than MEAG?

397. 1:06:18

     No, we'll issue the bonds, but they'll accept the credit of the large load customer under that 20-year contract.

398. 1:06:26

     Yeah, so the, uh, large load customer goes bankrupt. Then what do they do?

399. 1:06:30

     They sue the large load customer.

400. 1:06:32

     They in bankruptcy court, and they get nothing. And so what happens to you then? You s-

401. 1:06:35

     Then the bondholders are out of luck. They have no re- if we structure it with no recourse-

402. 1:06:39

     But you're, you're-

403. 1:06:39

     ... they have no claim against us because it's no recourse to MEAG Power, and that's our intent.

404. 1:06:43

     So whoever buys the bonds that you sell is-

405. 1:06:47

     Yeah

406. 1:06:47

     ... okay.

407. 1:06:47

     The bonds that we sell that would be backed up just for the first 20 years by the large load customer. Ch- and we did this in Vogel 3 and 4. We issued the bonds, and the bondholders bought them accepting that if there's any default in the first 20 years by JEA and Power South, they could go only against JEA and Power South because their credit, they were acceptable with that. But they had no backup responsibility in MEAG. We will do the same thing on this project.

408. 1:07:18

     Okay. Other questions, Buck? Senator Summers.

409. 1:07:23

     Follow up what, uh, Chairman Cowsert was saying. Would not, and you may have said this, it may be codified already, would not the large load customers help push the rate down for homeowners?

410. 1:07:35

     Sure.

411. 1:07:36

     So that's already-

412. 1:07:36

     Sure. The more money the city has-

413. 1:07:38

     Yeah

414. 1:07:38

     ... the less money they need, they need to charge the, the, the, um, residential people.

415. 1:07:43

     Same.

416. 1:07:44

     A lot of our, our costs related to the nuclear plant's debt service.

417. 1:07:49

     Right.

418. 1:07:49

     And the more kilowatt hour sales that we have, it spreads the cost across more kilowatts and drives down the marginal cost. So there's a, there's a benefit to the underlying cities if we have a good volume of additional sales, and we can spread these fixed costs over more kilowatts.

419. 1:08:07

     And one follow-up. I mean-

420. 1:08:08

     Go ahead

421. 1:08:08

     ... if you, if what he said, the scenario Chairman was talking about in regards to a company bankruptcy or whatever, one would hope that there'd be others in the, in the line to pick up the-

422. 1:08:20

     Oh, I, I can't imagine that would not happen.

423. 1:08:22

     Right.

424. 1:08:22

     We'd immediately take away the power that had been provided to the large load customer and resell into the market, and it would be very valuable power.

425. 1:08:29

     Very val- yeah, usable power.

426. 1:08:30

     In addition to it being non-recourse to MEAG Power.

427. 1:08:33

     Right. Right.

428. 1:08:34

     Is there anything that requires you to pass the savings along to the other customers rather than the cities just putting it in their bank account?

429. 1:08:43

     It, no. No. I- our relationship with the cities, we don't control the cities. We, we have a contract relationship. We have to comply with our obligations. They comply with theirs. But once the city has the power, let's say they, they get 50 megawatts from us under all of their long-term contracts, the city council then has the discretion to really determine what to charge for the power. The lower cost we can sell that power to the city, the more flexibility the city has to decide what rates they want to charge their retail citizens, try and still stay below the Georgia Power rate, but still the city makes a margin.

430. 1:09:28

     And a number of our cities have no ad valorem tax. They operate the cities based upon the margins they make on the sale of enterprise services, the largest of which is us. We get calls, um, almost every year from different cities in Georgia wanting to be a part of MEAG, and we have to explain to them, you know, the Territorial Act limited it to, to our, our current cities, plus the city of Hampton that we're, we're talking to. Um, so I hope that answers your question.

431. 1:09:59

     I, I know I'm probably talking too much.

432. 1:10:00

     Well, it does a little, but it sounds like if a city wanted to, they could take the savings that you're possibly gonna generate from the high rates that you can charge a large load customer subsidizing the rates you're charging the city, and they can gouge their s- residents if they want to and just fluff their coffers up. They're not required-

433. 1:10:20

     Yeah

434. 1:10:20

     ... to pass it on.

435. 1:10:21

     That, that's correct. The Georgia Supreme Court addressed that issue back in 1937 with the city of Albany, and they said the recourse of the rate payer is at the ballot box.

436. 1:10:30

     Got it. How do they know? Do you, are you required to disclose somewhere what you're selling the power to the cities at?

437. 1:10:37

     We're, you know, we're a, a public entity. We're subject to the Open Records Act. Um, uh, we're pretty much of an open book.

438. 1:10:46

     Okay. Senator Ginn, do you have a question, or you wanna educate us?

439. 1:10:50

     Well, the, uh, in actuality, uh, the great thing about, uh, the MEAG structure is those elected officials that set those rates also pay those rates. They have to live inside those, ah, jurisdictions. So it's kinda like the EMCs are guided by a board of directors. Those are members that have to be there. So, uh, it's, it- it's, it's a little different world, but it works very well.

440. 1:11:16

     Right. Would you like us to change the law to allow more cities to join MEAG, change that territorial act? You seem to have the demand.

441. 1:11:23

     Let's make it up.

442. 1:11:27

     We better pass on that one, uh, or we're gonna get a, get out of, uh, sorts.

443. 1:11:33

     We don't want to battle with Georgia Power right now.

444. 1:11:36

     All right.

445. 1:11:37

     Just a small battle.

446. 1:11:38

     A small battle with a big company is a big battle to us.

447. 1:11:43

     I have, uh, learned a lot today, and I appreciate y'all coming-

448. 1:11:46

     Yeah

449. 1:11:46

     ... to explain it so we can get the policy right. Our meeting time was very limited today. We, uh, have other committees that begin in about two minutes.

450. 1:11:54

     Okay.

451. 1:11:54

     So we're gonna adjourn for the day. You will be on our agenda Tuesday morning at 10:00. I am going to take the language that you guys gave me, uh, in advance to, to talk about the cost of the power generation, and I'm gonna probably tweak that a little bit and run it back by you, um, and your lobbyist, and, and you as, as well.

452. 1:12:17

     Well, we appreciate your time and attention.

453. 1:12:18

     Before we do anything. Won't blindside you. We make a point to have any committee subs available the day before a meeting, so it might take me some time over the weekend. I'm pretty whipped, and we've got 13, 15 bills on our floor tomorrow, so it's not gonna be till the weekend where I can really look at it. But y'all been very helpful. If you would just put it on your calendars to be back, uh, Tuesday morning, 10:00.

454. 1:12:42

     Thank you.

455. 1:12:42

     Thank you.

456. 1:12:43

     Thank you.

457. 1:12:43

     We are adjourned for the day.