Comité Agriculture and Consumer Affairs del Senado, 25 de marzo de 2026

Transcripción

422 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:17:46

   And, uh, wanna start off, I think I would like to have, uh, president, senator, congressman, great American, uh, senator, Chairman Max Burns. What number are you?

2. 0:18:01

   13 always.

3. 0:18:03

   Lucky number 13. All right. Would you bless us with a word?

4. 0:18:06

   Absolutely. You know, uh, join me. It's been a long day, and we're gonna have a few more of those to come. So let's, uh, take a moment and pause. Father God, we are grateful. We're grateful, and we're humble, and we're blessed. The privilege of service, the opportunity to have positive things, uh, for our state, I'm grateful for that. I'm, I'm certainly grateful for our ag community. I want you to be with our farmers. It's planting season. Uh, they gotta make some tough decisions. Uh, they gotta try to survive and make a living for their families and their communities.

5. 0:18:37

   But, uh, Lord, help us as we, uh, work through this agenda. Give us your will and your patience and your wisdom. In Christ's name I pray, amen.

6. 0:18:47

   Well, thank you. Thank you, Senator. All righty. Well, we've got a quorum. Uh, we're gonna go ahead and start off, uh, with, uh, my dear friend, my brother, the House Majority Whip, James Boschett, has got a bill here in front of us that is a committee substitute. Um, James, the floor is yours.

7. 0:19:09

   Thank you, Mr. Chair.

8. 0:19:10

   You got me?

9. 0:19:11

   Yeah.

10. 0:19:11

    Yes.

11. 0:19:12

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman and, and committee members. Uh, what you have before you is House Bill 63, LC443564S, is what I'm reading from. And, um, what the bill seeks to do is, uh, address a, um, market problem, uh, we're having in the forestry industry without having, um... With the closure of all the mills that we have, we've got more than eight million tons worth of wood is not being moved now in the state of Georgia, and there's a lot of loggers, uh, out there that are trying to figure out a way to make ends meet. And, um, we've had some short-term help.

12. 0:19:44

    Uh, you, you may, may have seen a provision that come through, uh, um, both chambers so far already that allow for a manufacturer's tax credit. What this seeks to do is set up a long-term solution to the issue that we have because now we're in the, in, in the past, we've had ups and downs within the, uh, forestry industry. We've always had pulp to rely on. When, when, when the market would come back, um, you know, we'd have a, a slow year, uh, or two, but you'd al- always have pulp to rely on.

13. 0:20:14

    But pulp is gone now. We've gotta start looking to the future. And this bill, what it allows for is a, a maximum t- uh, tax credit of $200 million for the pine to power, uh, so a biomass energy facility to be constructed. What essentially you would be hauling logs, uh, to turn into power. And, um, in my opinion, uh, that is the, the future of, uh, forestry in the state of Georgia. If we c- want to continue to being the number one forestry state in the s- uh, in the union, then we are gonna need to find a long-term solution.

14. 0:20:49

    And I think this is one of those, um, long-term solutions, along with, uh, more exports of our forestry, um, uh, commodities. And with, um, I'll take any questions on the bill.

15. 0:21:02

    All right. We'll start off. We have, uh, Chairman Burns, is that right?

16. 0:21:05

    Yes.

17. 0:21:05

    Okay.

18. 0:21:06

    Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and, uh, thanks to the author for bringing the bill. I'm, I'm, I'm with you. Uh, we were down at Douglas together not long after those mills were closing around us, and we were talking about, uh, energy.

19. 0:21:19

    Mm-hmm.

20. 0:21:19

    And we were talking about biomass, and we were discussing the potential to generate the needed energy in Georgia through the use of, uh, timber products. Um, and I certainly applaud this and support it. I think part of the challenge we have is that at this point in time, um, um, this is not deemed a renewable resource.

21. 0:21:43

    That's correct.

22. 0:21:43

    And we need to, we need to find a way to get there. Is there, do you have any, any insights into that particular challenge?

23. 0:21:50

    So, uh, w- uh, uh, as you're aware, and, and thank you for being at that meeting, and thank you for bringing that up, we, uh, we have been, uh, working, um, both the, the S- Senate and the House with our counterparts in, uh, Washington to try and add back, um, the, the biomass as a renewable energy, 'cause that, that helps us out. So here, there's no secret to, uh, that biomass energy production costs, it costs more. Um, and, um, there's difference of opinion of how much it costs, but I can tell you that it is not, um, it is not...

24. 0:22:25

    Some of the numbers that have been quoted has been as high, uh, very high, and it is not that high. Um, I went over to Europe and toured several facilities that are doing this right now, and these facilities were started with, um, uh, European Union, uh, pushing, um, essentially credits, uh, for production credits, but those have long since, uh, expired. And, um, you got RWE over there running mills al- entirely off of pellets and, uh, running power off of pellets.

25. 0:22:56

    And, uh, it is a doable scenario. Even, even so, they're, they're not only taking our, our products, they, but they're shipping them across the ocean and still being able to find a way, um, to, um, utilize our pine to power. Um, I have touched base with the, um, the administration and our counterparts in, in DC to try and add us back to help us out. This measure would, uh, incentivize a, an operator to put in one of these p- uh, power producing facilities in Georgia.

26. 0:23:28

    Good. Uh, follow-up, Mr. Chair? There's one more.

27. 0:23:30

    Go ahead.

28. 0:23:31

    I think that with the demand, uh, power demand of the data center industry that's, uh, coming to our state, that one of the things we must do is, uh, as those, uh, uh, projects come, come, uh, become proposed and come online, they've gotta contribute to their own power needs. And a good partnership for data centers is to utilize a renewable, plentiful resource that's called the timber industry in Georgia. So I would hope that this credit would incentivize that type of activity.

29. 0:24:02

    It certainly would incenti- in- incentivize that activity. In an earlier version of this language, uh, did just that, um, Mr. Chairman. It, uh, um, essentially required a, a data center in the State of Georgia to put in behind-the-meter AP... a, um, biomass energy facility, uh, as a supplemental power. Um, the way I saw it was that you've got some of the largest companies in the world operating these data centers, and they, um, are also some of the most profitable companies in the world.

30. 0:24:33

    And so if they're gonna utilize our power, then at, the, at minimum they could, um, supplement their draw and also help another industry out.

31. 0:24:42

    I, I understand. Thank you.

32. 0:24:44

    Yeah, I really appreciate you bringing this, uh, Mr. Whipp. It's always still funny calling you Mr. Whipp, but that's how we have to talk to each other in these things. But, um, you know, where you and I live at, I mean, it's, I mean, it's really it, you know? And I, I tell people, um, if, if the Hyundai plant was the largest economic development announcement in the state's history, then these mill closures have been the largest economic contraction announcements in the state's history. And it's something like 120 logging businesses have, have gone out of business.

33. 0:25:15

    You and I have constituents that we share that are going out of business. I saw just the other day, uh, on Facebook Marketplace where a logger was, uh, um, having a liquidation sale in the Senate... in, uh, Chairman Watson's district. Uh-

34. 0:25:31

    Oh, yeah

35. 0:25:31

    ... it's, um-

36. 0:25:32

    Well, Mr. Chairman, I have to say, I, I, I can't, can't g- go without saying thank you for putting the bill on. You've, you have really moved a, moved a mountain to get the bill on. Uh, I think this is a good measure. I think this is the future of the forestry industry. Um, you know, I can envision, you know... And the initial language was $1.6 billion, and it was $200 million, uh, per facility, and that would put about eight million tons worth of wood being moved, which would, uh, that's only one mill closure, GP, um, that would put it back into production.

37. 0:26:04

    And, and, and my f- biggest fear is this, you know, not only did we lose the, the pulp, uh, industry, but our sawmills are burying themselves in, um, their byproduct, and there's nowhere for those byproduct to go. If there, if there is nowhere for those byproduct, byproducts to go, it's, it's a practical problem in that they're, they're covering themselves up. But secondly, they were... It was a revenue stream that they were able to, um, utilize, and now that's dried up. My, my expectation is that you'll see at least a couple more buil- mills close this year.

38. 0:26:37

    Uh, so this is just a, it's seeking to try and find a way, uh, to a long-term solution.

39. 0:26:43

    All right, we've got, uh, Senator, uh Howard.

40. 0:26:47

    Thank you so much. I appreciate you bringing this bill, and, um, learned a lot about the forestry industry and also the challenges. Um, I love the intent here. Uh, I do have a question about the, uh, line 36, about claiming these tax credits before December 31 of 2036. Um, can you talk more about that 10-year window versus maybe doing a five-year window?

41. 0:27:11

    Sure.

42. 0:27:11

    10 years just seems like, um, I don't know, may- A, a shorter window might help kinda speed things along because there's a sense of urgency that I, I, I'm sure you share.

43. 0:27:20

    Listen, I'm, um, I'm open to moving the, the, um, the date up if that's, if that's something you'd like to do. Uh, it's just giving as, as much flexibility as possible. I would like to see somebody, if this were to pass and get to the s- the governor's desk, I would like somebody immediately take up action-

44. 0:27:36

    Understood

45. 0:27:36

    ... and start building one of these. So I'm, I'm open to that certainly.

46. 0:27:39

    Yeah, just shared a sense of urgency, and I think this 10 year, um, just gives way too much time for folks to, you know-

47. 0:27:48

    Can, do you mind if I speak to that?

48. 0:27:50

    Please.

49. 0:27:50

    Um, the, uh, the only thing that gives me pause about that, Mr. Whipp, and, and you tell me what you think, but, um, the, uh... I don't know the word I'm trying to look for, but the process of getting this stuff approved does not happen fast.

50. 0:28:06

    Okay.

51. 0:28:07

    And, and sometimes there's litigation involved and everything, and I, I don't know that we wanna... This is my opinion now, but I, I, I would, I'd like to ask the committee to consider not moving it that way because it, sometimes it takes longer than... Y- you understand what I'm saying?

52. 0:28:25

    That, that's fair.

53. 0:28:26

    And I, I-

54. 0:28:26

    That's fair

55. 0:28:27

    ... if y'all wouldn't mind keeping that language, I'd, I'd appreciate it.

56. 0:28:30

    That's fair. That's fair. I mean, um, if someone were to start today, um, I don't think they can start construction for at least three years. Um, and the, the, the proposition that was proposed to me is that they can go... Someone that wants to do this, an operator that wants to do this right now, can go to the commercial market and find a portion of the money. Let's say it's $500 million. They can find $200 million from a commercial market, commercial bank, then they'll invest $100 million. The other remaining $200 million has to come from private equity, and the private equity interest is causing the pr- the project another, uh, an additional $100 million, which kills the, it k- essentially kills the project.

57. 0:29:10

    So, um, in having conversations with, uh, Chairman Tillery, he c- he, he talked about doing a loan. I don't know how to do the loan. I thought this was a, a way that the state does not have to put any money invested with a low interest loan. This is a transferable tax credit.

58. 0:29:26

    Yes.

59. 0:29:26

    It's where essentially, um, they'd be funding their own, um, um, construction.

60. 0:29:33

    And one of the things I really like about

61. 0:29:37

    measures that try to create new markets is it, it helps everyone. It, uh, you know, it helps the, not only the logger, but the guy that's running the cut down machine, and the guy that's driving the log truck, and the local parts store, and honestly, the tax digest and the local rural school systems. Because one of the fears I have of what we've seen in the timber industry, and I grew up during this time in the '80s, um, when, you know- Farmers bought land for $1,200 an acre in the mid to late '70s, and then by the time about 1983, '84 started rolling around, um, commodity prices were depressed.

62. 0:30:12

    And, uh, next thing you know, we started having foreclosures. And, um, that land that used to be worth $1,200 an acre was reevaluated at about six, $700 an acre. And that's one of the things that kinda exploded the foreclosures because, you know, these bankers would come in, you have your debt to asset ratio, and all of a sudden, you know, their land is what they're holding for, for equity, and it's devalued so much. And, um, I tell people all the time that in, in rural Georgia, what, what happens in the timber industry affects everyone because I can promie- promise you, if, if we s- continue to see these markets decline, not only are we gonna have more expense with, uh, with forest fires, but, you know, with forest health because you won't have the, the markets to thin the wood and, and everything else.

63. 0:30:55

    But when, when you, when that cycle starts, it's not, it's not that first time, and it's not the second time, but by the time it rolls around about the 20th time, and then this land gets reevaluated, um, everybody's property taxes, we still have to educate our kids in rural Georgia, we still have to grade the roads, and, uh, everybody will feel the pain of the, of the timber industry, um- Yeah ... going down, if you know what I'm saying. Um, so it's gonna cause everybody else's taxes to go up, too. So, uh, all Georgians have a, an interest in seeing our forestry industry be healthy and having healthy forest markets.

64. 0:31:28

    I, I couldn't agree more, Mr. Chairman. Do we, do we have any other, um, questions from members of the committee? We, uh, were, were you at Rose, uh, Senator Hatchett? Is the line still long? Uh, no. They're picking now. They're picking? Okay. So, um,

65. 0:31:47

    we, uh... Do you wanna... Have you, have you... Good Lord. Have you, um...

66. 0:31:58

    Do you want, uh, Whip Burchette to give you the cliff note version real quick? I move to be passed.

67. 0:32:04

    I think I would.

68. 0:32:05

    Okay. All right.

69. 0:32:07

    I think I'm good with this, Mr. Chairman.

70. 0:32:07

    All right. All right. We have a motion to pass. Do we have a second?

71. 0:32:11

    Second.

72. 0:32:12

    All right, we have a motion to pass from, uh, Senator Burns, and we have a, a second from Senator Kemp. Is there any further discussion? All right, seeing none, uh, all in favor signify by saying, "I."

73. 0:32:26

    I.

74. 0:32:26

    All opposed? All right, measure passes unanimously. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. All right. Thank you, Ben. Thank you, committee members. Appreciate you. All right, the next bill that we have on the docket is, uh, Representative Barrett.

75. 0:32:41

    If you wanna... And I think the, uh, members of the committee, you, you have a committee substitute in your folders. Um, and, uh, Representative Barrett, is it not, uh, LC- LC 44-35-48S?

76. 0:32:57

    Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. That's correct.

77. 0:32:58

    Okay. All right. Go, go ahead. The, the floor is yours.

78. 0:33:00

    Great. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, thank y'all for, uh, uh... Gentlemen, thank you for hearing this today. I'm, I'm beyond grateful. This, uh, the idea for this legislation was something that emerged probably five years ago for me. Uh, people have said, "Why are you, uh, uh... Where'd this bill come from?" I said, "Well, it came from me because I'd, I'd, I'd witnessed this time and time and time again, where you would have these automatic renewals on these contracts." In fact, when Congressman Rich McCormick was first running for office, I said, "You know, this is something you should take up. It's an important issue. It affects every family in the state." Um, the bill you have before you is the actual legislation.

79. 0:33:34

    The, the, the changes are sim- quite simple. They're on line 24 through 31. Um, last year, I presented HB 529 to y'all's committee. And you'll recall that, uh, when a business signs a consumer up for a long-term contract and sets the customer up for an automatic renewal, which is typically what they do, they, it's in the fine print, "We're gonna put you on auto-renewal. Give us your credit card information." And then they'll, um, all they have to do to, to renew it is to send you a little email, uh, which a consumer can easily overlook, and then it locks them in for another year, usually at a much higher price.

80. 0:34:08

    Um, HB 529, the original intent was that simply to give the consumer the right to notify the seller on the front end that, "Hey, at the end of the year, I just want this to end," um, and, uh, have the contract terminate rather than having to wait 11 months. Right now you have to wait. No, you can't cancel now six months out or five months or four months, but you gotta wait till, you know, 11 months. But you can't do it after 12 months. They've got you in a little window. If you're like me, and I love the Wall Street Journal, my subscription went from $65 to $450.

81. 0:34:40

    Um, they're actually a good actor. They actually will come back and say, "Oh, you don't want that? Okay. We'll, we'll refund your $450, but h- here's an offer you might like." So they're actually a good actor. They... And, and I appreciate the way they do business. But the truth is, they send you 400 emails a year, so you can easily overlook the one email you really need, which is on the renewal. And then, uh, if, if you, if you miss that email, you're c- you can be out of luck. Now, they're a good actor, so they, they come back and work with you. This bill is only intended to sort of catch that small portion of the universe that are really bad actors.

82. 0:35:15

    Um, we passed this bill in the House last year at 169 to two, and the idea was just, you can offer me the automatic renewal, but you can't make me take one. I just wanted to have the right to go ahead and tell you now, at the end of the year, I wanna be done. Um, we got excellent feedback from members of this committee, including Senator Estevez and Chairman Dolezal both, and they both said, "Carter, you know, we got a slightly better version that we would like to see." And what we'd like to see is if, if it's a long-term contract, like a year or more, where they really raise your price way up, in this case 50% or more,

83. 0:35:54

    th- they, uh, we would be very comfortable with the idea that you might have a little grace period if you miss that email or if it goes to your spam, where you can come back and say, "You know, I really didn't want it. I liked it at $100. I don't like it at 600." 'Cause they can literally raise your price from a, 100 to 3,000 And you got-- And there's nothing you can do about it. So what we agreed to with Senator Esteves and Chairman Dolezal was, "This would work pretty well. Just give them a little grace period." I worked, I sp- I have spent countless hours with industry on this bill, with the Georgia Chamber, with Amazon, with Tag, all these guys.

84. 0:36:31

    The leadership in the House, we've, we've gone around and around to come up with the language that you have before you. Um, I, I presented a buffet of options. I said, "Guys, I'm all ears. We should just bring a little bit of relief to families." Consi- I, every single person I've ever discussed this with has, has an example. We have one of your great friends and, and mine in the Senate who recently got an E-vite renewal for 250 bucks, and they went, "Oh, I didn't know that." And, you know, we were helping do, coordinate spousal events.

85. 0:37:04

    My wife watched, she said, "Well, I'll pay that this year." It was a $250 renewal. It was fine. Even that would not be triggered by this bill because it didn't have that significant price increase. So in other words, it, it only affects that small part of the universe. Long-term contracts, a significant price increase. We've worked so closely with industry. We gave them a buffet of options and said, "Tell us which one you like. We just wanna bring a little re- The consumer should at least have a fighting chance." And we had many people in industry say, "Well, okay, I like this one." Last week on Friday, we, we passed that through the, uh, s- uh, House Ag Committee, uh, overwhelmingly.

86. 0:37:45

    The videos are great fun. You should go watch them, watch how animated every single person on that committee was, and the people coming to speak, their, their steam was coming out of their ears. Um, shortly thereafter, a- and that was a bill, that was House Bill 1224. That was a bill that industry said they were comfortable with. They had spoken to leadership in the House, said, "We're okay with this. We're neutral on this." Last Friday, I was meeting with Senator Dolezal, and they said, "Well, d- uh, we actually like this other version slightly better, S- House Bill 1225." I said, "They're very similar.

87. 0:38:20

    One says for a long-term contract over a year or more, where you raise my price 50% or more, you gotta get, you gotta get my consent." I'd love to direct y'all to the contract in front of you, the law in front of you. If you were to look at lines 17 or, or let's say four- lines 12 to 20 f- 23. This is the actual law right now. This bill is, was well-crafted long before I got involved. Houston Gaines passed this bill, and it's an elegant bill.

88. 0:38:52

    The language says, "For long-term contracts that are two year, over two years, you've gotta notify me, but you also have to get my consent." That's what the law already says. The problem is, industry was very effective at neutering the bill by making it for contracts over two years. Business-to-consumer contracts are not for over two years. You generally will do month to month or a year at a time. You don't do over two years. So they were very effective at taking this elegant little bill and completely gutting it by putting that language in there like this.

89. 0:39:29

    What this bill is designed to do is to come back and say, uh, the, the House Bill 1224 that we passed in the Ag Committee said, "If you raise, if you go for long..." It's the same exact language. It says, "But for contracts a year or more, and you increase price 50%, you gotta do the same thing." Exact same language. I have that language right here if you prefer that. I personally like this one. It says, "Hey, you'll give me a little grace period. If I miss your email, if it goes to spam, if you slip one past me 'cause you send me 400 emails a year, you'll give me a little grace period so that when your 86-year-old grandmother misses that email, she has a little bit of a chance to see her bank statement or her credit card statement and say, 'Wait a minute.'" I discussed this ad nauseam with industry Friday, a couple of days ago.

90. 0:40:19

    They said, "We like this version better." I said, "Well, that's funny because the other version is the one you picked. I g- I gave them to you and you chose that one." They went, "Oh, we like this version better now." I said, "Okay, that's just fine. We'll see about making that the substitute." So they're kind of all over the place. I don't know much, Mr. Chairman. When I first got here, people like you and all of our other friends said, "You know, down here, your word's everything. When you say you'll do something, by golly, you ought to do it and stick to it.

91. 0:40:50

    Even when it's painful, stick to what you said you'd do." I could not work any harder with industry than I've worked on this bill. I could not be more accommodating, and the changes in this bill are not draconian at all. It's a little teeny move in the right direction to help consumers have a fighting chance, because the word of the year for all of us here in the legislature is affordability.

92. 0:41:22

    Inflation is roiling families everywhere, and this is one way, uh, uh, some of these unscrupulous actors want you to get it and forget it, and get stuck with it, and you can't get out of them. And I can get 1,000 grandmothers and grandfathers down here anytime you tell me to, to tell you all their stories about these s- situations. So I just beg your consideration on this. I've really, I've spent an inordinate amount of time. You can probably tell I'm sort of passionate about this bill.

93. 0:41:55

    I love looking after people. I think this is agriculture and consumer affairs, and I can't think of a more obvious consumer issue than this. But I just beg your favorable consideration. I've tried to, to be very accommodating for industry. I'm a business person. I was a founder and CEO of a bank. I work with business. It was a boutique business bank. I work with business. I am about as pro-business as you can get, but I'm also pro-people and I'm pro-Georgians, and I don't like it when Georgians get taken advantage of, and that is exactly what is happening right now.

94. 0:42:29

    And even that, I'm saying, let's just make a small, little incremental step in the right direction to protect these folks, and I just don't think that's asking too much. I've had industry tell me, "Today, I don't care what legislation it is. We're opposed to any of it." Today. It doesn't matter what we come up with. And I've literally laid out, like, umpteen examples, and I've said, "I, I've come with you, to you with this and this and this and this and this.

95. 0:43:00

    You come up with some ideas. I'm all ears." And it just... And, and I get this, this, "Hey, we're okay. We're neutral." And then it's, "Well, we're not," or there's a whisperer out there that's kinda, "Well, we'll just torpedo it over here," or it's a, "Oh, it'll never get out of rules." Well, okay, that's fine. But I'm proud to stand up and say, I am pro-consumers, I'm pro-business. I think this strikes a healthy balance for both. And, uh, and I'd just ask you to come along with me on this. I swear to you, I wouldn't, I wouldn't lead you wrong, and I wouldn't sell you a bill of goods, and I've got all the different versions.

96. 0:43:35

    I'd be happy to spend as much time as you'd like, and I'd love to ha- answer any questions you might have.

97. 0:43:41

    All righty. I think to start with, we have Chairman Burns. His light's been flashing for a while.

98. 0:43:46

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

99. 0:43:47

    Oh, there we go.

100. 0:43:49

     I appreciate the problem. I am not a fan of automatic renewals. I, like most people in this room, I have suffered the consequences of not reading an email in a timely manner or not reading the detail as carefully as I should. And I personally feel I've been taken advantage of by some of the industry players that I'm not comfortable with. But let's go to y- your bill. Let's look at your lines 24 through 31.

101. 0:44:23

     And you have to walk me through it. I'm a little slow. So more, a period of more than one year, an increase of 50% or more. Within 30 days I get a certain pro rata refund. Is that correct?

102. 0:44:37

     Yes, sir.

103. 0:44:38

     Please explain to me that equation. It seems rather complex and convoluted.

104. 0:44:44

     Well, I, I can give you a real world example.

105. 0:44:46

     Give me an example.

106. 0:44:47

     If I were-

107. 0:44:47

     So if I had a $100 contract and it went to $200 and I'm 30 days out and I, and I renew it 35 days, what's my refund?

108. 0:44:56

     Uh, my Wall Street Journal subscription is a perfect example.

109. 0:44:59

     Okay.

110. 0:44:59

     Let's say it's $200, and I'm a, I'm a month in.

111. 0:45:02

     Yep.

112. 0:45:03

     On the... The two... Let's say it's 240 for r- rounding purposes, just make it easier. Uh, uh, so I'm 240 bucks. I'm 20 bucks a, a month, right? So I'm, I'm a month into the contract. They rebate $220. I paid the, the, the one month equivalent. Now what they'll do, because I've got a lot of experience with them, is they'll come back and say, "But hey, we'd still like-"

113. 0:45:24

     They'll, they'll offer you an option, won't they?

114. 0:45:25

     "We'd still like to have you." Every one of you who, who has Sirius, I suspect, you get it for, for the year and, and that-

115. 0:45:32

     Cell phone folks do the same thing, don't they?

116. 0:45:34

     Yeah. E- every year they take your subscription from six bucks a month to 40 bucks a month, and you get to get on the phone and you go around and around and around, and they say, "Oh, we've got a special offer for you for eight bucks a month or six bucks a month."

117. 0:45:45

     I'm gonna interject here just one minute. B- both, both the representative and senator, um, I know there's some folks that wanted to speak to this, and so Elle, our wonderful intern from the University of Georgia, from Morgan County, is gonna put out a sign-up sheet.

118. 0:45:58

     Sign-up sheet.

119. 0:45:59

     So anyway, yeah.

120. 0:46:00

     Yeah. If you'd like to speak to the bill, please sign up-

121. 0:46:01

     Yeah, so, uh-

122. 0:46:02

     ... and we'd love to hear from you.

123. 0:46:03

     Uh, carry on.

124. 0:46:04

     All right. Yeah, yeah. Okay. Back, back to your example. I, I, I just see, um... I, I hear what you're suggesting. Um,

125. 0:46:16

     run me through the scenario where there's a, there's a point at which, or is there a point at which consent is required for renewal?

126. 0:46:27

     Well, if you look at the... Senator, if you, um... Mr. Chairman, if you look at the language above, it is required in the law right now. The problem is the law is only for contracts over two years, which really don't hardly ever exist in B2C. They do in B2B, but this doesn't speak to small business. That, that's already required. I have a version right here for you, sir, that just simply has that exact language. It says it, it, it... Consent is required versus a, a, a... And, and that's the bill that we passed in the House, was with a year contract or more, with a 50% price increase, you have to get my consent.

127. 0:47:04

     It's the exact same language you see above lines 24. You see where it says line 21, 22, the methods, uh...

128. 0:47:20

     I-

129. 0:47:20

     I, again-

130. 0:47:21

     I'm actually in the wrong place.

131. 0:47:21

     I think it's... I, I, I don't s-

132. 0:47:23

     I'm sorry. It's b- Look below. Excuse me, sir.

133. 0:47:25

     All right.

134. 0:47:25

     Um, lines 32 to 39.

135. 0:47:26

     All right.

136. 0:47:26

     You can see where it says on, uh, line 38 and 39, this is for contracts on line 33, more than 24 months, and then lines 38, an affirmative written or electronic response that the consumer does not intend, intend to terminate the ser- That means you've gotta get their affirmative consent-

137. 0:47:47

     Okay

138. 0:47:47

     ... that they're, they're sticking with it.

139. 0:47:49

     May I, may I ask a simple question?

140. 0:47:51

     Of course.

141. 0:47:51

     What if you change the number 24 to 12?

142. 0:47:55

     I think that was as, as elegant and wonderful as you can get. It's one of the options that I put out there. In fact, that's exactly what I said. But I said, "But I don't suspect that industry would go for that." That's why I took it more-

143. 0:48:07

     Why would they not? Why would they prefer your, your option B to that?

144. 0:48:14

     Well, option B is there's two triggers. It's 12 months or more, and a 50% price increase, which is what they a- asked for, and we accommodated that. A, a more conservative position from our perspective would be a year or more, you have to get my consent. But they said, "Well, we couldn't live with that. We'd like to see a year or more, and if we jack the price up 100%, then maybe we'd have to get your consent." And then we negotiated with them back and forth and ended up, and landed on 50%.

145. 0:48:44

     Thank you.

146. 0:48:44

     And, and what that does is really just eliminate a lot... the, the real bad actors. Most of these companies are not gonna raise your price more than 50% in any given year, but some of them might. Your trash service-

147. 0:48:56

     Yeah

148. 0:48:56

     ... the guys that come and, and do that, they, they act po- very positively good. This is designed to sort of... We're not trying to go for the sun and the moon and the stars. We're just trying to k- kind of close down. We don't want someone to be able to take you from $250 a year to $800 a year.

149. 0:49:13

     I, I get, I get it. Thank you. Uh-

150. 0:49:14

     But, but I, I prefer your version, Senator.

151. 0:49:16

     Thank you. Uh, let's, let's-

152. 0:49:18

     Do, do you, um-

153. 0:49:18

     There, here's to your conversation.

154. 0:49:20

     Yeah. If you don't mind, uh, Chairman Burns, uh, Chairman Watson's light's been flashing for quite a while there. Go ahead.

155. 0:49:28

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, so contract for service, uh, and these, this is... How would this affect... Is that defined anywhere? Or what, what defines a, a service contract? Is that... How would this affect... Does that affect utilities, banks? Um, what would, what would happen if my, if my power bill doubles, um, is that a service contract or a contract for a service?

156. 0:49:56

     Yes, it is. If you, if you have a... Do you s- do you do your power bill for a year or, or longer?

157. 0:50:01

     It's, it's on auto draft. I mean, uh, you know, they-

158. 0:50:04

     It probably, it probably bill you monthly

159. 0:50:04

     ... but it, it doubles during the summer sometimes-

160. 0:50:06

     But, but I, I-

161. 0:50:07

     ... and triples and-

162. 0:50:08

     That's usage-based

163. 0:50:09

     ... yeah.

164. 0:50:11

     Yeah. Th- th- the way this bill was crafted, see, the bill that I brought to y'all last year, the intent was right, but the bill was complicated. I tried too hard to work with industry m- lobbyists to, to be accommodating, and it just had carve-outs and all kinds of crazy things in it. But the spirit was good. It says, "I just want the right to go ahead and tell you on the front end I'm out of the back end." Uh, we have a version of that that is now very simple. This is the existing law. So that, in that new paragraph, th- those terms are already defined in the law.

165. 0:50:42

     Um, and what, and what we've done is just take a little teeny tweak, it based on the existing legislation that... I, I really did study the legislation. I thought it's an elegant bill. It's just ineffective because of that greater than two years.

166. 0:50:56

     So what about, like, uh, CDs at a bank that automatically renew? Would they be impacted by this?

167. 0:51:02

     That is not the intent of this bill.

168. 0:51:07

     Oh. Do we know if they would be impacted?

169. 0:51:11

     No, they would not be impacted. A con- a, a CD at a bank has a terminus, a termination point. You g- it, I, I'm assuming a bank-

170. 0:51:19

     But I mean, I've had them automatically renew on me, and, and if I don't go up and sign paperwork and withdraw my money out or let them know something, it'll automatically renew, and then once it automatically renews on me, I have to pay the penalty to get my money out of the bank.

171. 0:51:32

     Well, well, it should, it certainly should apply to that CD as a former CEO of a bank. In other words, I, when, when I just slip one past you 'cause you're 88 years old, now I've dropped your rate from 4.25 to .08, which happens all the time in banking, it absolutely should a- should apply. Now, I'll... To get you a specific answer f- from leg counsel, I'd, I guess I'd need to have them with me.

172. 0:51:56

     Hmm.

173. 0:51:57

     But it certainly needs to apply.

174. 0:52:00

     Okay.

175. 0:52:02

     Uh, we got, uh... Thank you. We got Chairman Burns. You go ahead.

176. 0:52:06

     Uh, uh, just to follow up on, uh, Chairman Watson's comment. You know, the, just, the intent is not to apply to banking, but I think it does provide an example. And, uh, my, my experience is when they're automatically renewed, I'm not given a notice that is sufficient to make an informed decision sometimes. Uh, and I would take away the sometimes. But my concern is automatic renewals at a grossly inflated number or in a, in the area of interest, a grossly reduced number, I have concerns.

177. 0:52:47

     So-

178. 0:52:47

     And I, and again, to the, to the author, your intent was not to address the issue in finance and the f- the banking industry. Is that true?

179. 0:52:55

     This is to, this is for those automa- the intent was, uh, let's look at those automatic re- contract renewals like your, like your, uh, like your Wall Street Journal subscription, uh, or your, or your-

180. 0:53:05

     Or like your phone subscript-

181. 0:53:06

     Exactly.

182. 0:53:07

     Or, yeah.

183. 0:53:07

     So if, um-

184. 0:53:08

     And, and it literally takes the existing bill and just adds some guidelines.

185. 0:53:10

     I'm, I wanna interject just real quick, but I wanna read something to you that, um, Ms. Lindsay, our, our fabulous committee lawyer just brought to me. This is 2024 Code of Georgia Title 13 Contracts. Um, "This chapter shall not apply to, one, a financial institution as provided in Chapter 1 of 2 of Title 7 or any depository institution as defined in 12 USC Section 1813. Number two, a foreign bank maintaining a branch or agency license under the laws of any state of the United States.

186. 0:53:43

     Number three, a subsidiary or affiliate of an entity provided in paragraph one or two of this code section. Number four, any electric utility as provided in Chapter 3 of Title 46. Number five, any entity regulated pursuant to Chapter 45 of Title 3, or number six, any county municipal corporation, authority or local government or governing body." So thank you for, thank you for sharing that.

187. 0:54:06

     So this does not apply. Thank you.

188. 0:54:07

     Yes, sir.

189. 0:54:07

     Thank you.

190. 0:54:08

     That's my understanding. Yes, sir.

191. 0:54:09

     Perhaps we'd have another conversation at another date.

192. 0:54:12

     Yes, sir. Um, do we have, uh-

193. 0:54:21

     Chairman Echols

194. 0:54:22

     I- I'm a little bit slow here. I'm getting confused. But some companies use subscriptions as a marketing, as a way to market their product. $25.99 for farmersonly.com, like Russ signs up to or whatever.

195. 0:54:49

     Chairman, Chairman Sims.

196. 0:54:50

     So you've seen my profile.

197. 0:54:52

     No, and if he don't find it, the, uh, on his initial contract that he signs for $25.99 a month, if he ain't found a date by the end of six months, it goes up to $50.99. He signed the initial contract at $25.99, and maybe they did send him some emails along the way. I, I mean, this seems to me like it's, seems to me like it's hard, uh, like it's, uh, it, in, in this particular instance, it would be skewed toward the consumer that, hey, we could take advantage of...

198. 0:55:27

     I, I could just cry wolf and say, "Well, I didn't mean to sign up for a year." W- I, I can't... We can't legislate people reading their emails. That's what, that's kind of what I'm getting to right here is, is this is, it's hard. It's hard.

199. 0:55:44

     I, I-

200. 0:55:44

     You know what I'm saying? I mean, it's ha-

201. 0:55:45

     I certainly understand your point, Senator, but, but the, the fact of the matter is, i- i- if, if you spend an hour on your computer, you'll see that these, these are in... These practices they're, are often absolutely unscrupulous. The fact is, I had one person in industry, and I sat there with a newspaper subscription last year and I said, "I tell you what, I just got this email on this renewal. If you can cancel this subscription for me on my computer, I'll drop the bill." And he messed around for 15 or 20 minutes and said, "I can't do it." See, the thing is, it's intentionally difficult.

202. 0:56:22

     There's no consistency. Last year, the argument from industry was, "Hey, we've got click to cancel, so we don't need this legislation." And then they promptly got click to cancel thrown out on a technicality at the federal level. So here's the thing. The, w- we're grownups and we're serious people, and we are here to protect consumers, uh, from, from only the unscrupulous business practices. We're not trying to make life difficult. Heck, I, this thing says you can raise my price 50%, and you don't have to do anything.

203. 0:56:54

     W- If you can't, if we can't see from the simple language in here as it says, "For contracts over two years," you can see how slippery these practices are. The type of th- natural tendency is to come in and deceive people, even legislators like us, and we're tuned. We're well-tuned instruments on baloney. But they slipped this one past all of us, y'all included, for contracts over two years. It's baloney.

204. 0:57:25

     So if we wanna put some basic guardrails in place for consumers, I'm all in. If that makes me not pro-business, hogwash. You ain't gonna find a more pro-business person than me.

205. 0:57:38

     I, if you don't mind, I'm gonna interject, Representative. I think, uh, Chairman Watson, uh... Is that right, Chairman? Okay.

206. 0:57:46

     Yeah, just all the conversation, uh, just thinking about this. So this, this happens, um, and you, you want a refund. Um, how do you go about getting it, and what's the timeline of you, the consumer, getting it back? If it's a company in California and you caught this six months later, how do you...

207. 0:58:13

     This, this bill, i- i- as you know with many bills, Senator, that we pass in the legislature, it's hard to, to anticipate every single thing and get everything right, but they are... This is intended to be intentionally broad enough. Again, we're not trying to put, uh, our foot on the throat of industry. We're just th- we're just establishing that we should be entitled to ask for a renewal. It doesn't go in and say, "And you gotta do it within seven days." It's just, I ought to have the right to ask you for a, a pro rata refund, and the idea again is not to be difficult for industry.

208. 0:58:47

     We love these companies. I, I love every one of them. I renew them all the time. I just don't like it when they slip one past me, and I can take care of myself. I try and imagine the 88-year-old version of myself. There's a reason why lots of seniors groups and people like Clark Howard and, and consumer advocacy groups support stuff like this, because there are a million, trillion... I b- I will bet you every single person in this room has an example of one of these. You know what this bill, the original intent was, was to simply take the onus off of the consumer.

209. 0:59:21

     Hey, I've got to go put a tickler on my computer to remind myself 11 months from now that I've got to take a look at this contract, and then if I see that, then good for me, because I'm, I'm, I'm that guy. I'm that orderly and that organized. Hardly anybody is, is the problem. Most people don't do that, and they count on that. I suggested one thing. I said, "W- how would you feel about in addition to an email, you s- you give an alternative method of contacting people, perhaps a letter in the mail or, or, or a text message to a verified cell phone number?" "No, we don't want to do that." It didn't matter what I came up with.

210. 1:00:00

     It, you hit a brick wall at every single turn. We all know what's happening. The question is, are we willing to take a little baby step to look after Georgians? I just think they deserve it.

211. 1:00:16

     Yeah, maybe somebody f- if we hear from the industry-

212. 1:00:18

     Yeah, yeah

213. 1:00:19

     ... or somebody maybe can answer how, how this would go down on the-

214. 1:00:21

     I was gonna suggest that if, if you wouldn't-

215. 1:00:23

     Of course

216. 1:00:23

     ... um, if you wouldn't mind. Who, you mind bringing me this sheet in the cell? Thank you

217. 1:00:31

     You know, uh, Mr. Chairman, today I had someone jokingly say, "Hey, if your bill doesn't get done this year, that's just job security for us next year." And it was all funny and a joke, but it's not really a total joke. It's kind... There's a lot of truth in that.

218. 1:00:46

     Yeah. We have, we have... I can promise you, we've all had a lot of bills that have not passed. Um, but that's, that's the nature of this, uh-

219. 1:00:54

     Yes, sir

220. 1:00:54

     ... that's the nature of this. I've had bills... Matter of fact, there's a bill over there right now that was one of my bills in the House that stripped out, that's coming back. It was in the Lapahol Judicial, uh, that I wanted to pass, uh, I wanted my good friend, uh, Representative Ford to have that be her first bill, and so it's kind of... I don't know what it is now, to tell you the truth. I th- Somebody stopped me in the halls... But it's got my name on it anyway, but, uh-

221. 1:01:18

     Well-

222. 1:01:18

     Anyway

223. 1:01:19

     ... all I can say, Mr. Chairman, is I'm glad that I've supported every single bill you've ever filed-

224. 1:01:22

     Well, I appreciate that

225. 1:01:23

     ... in my time here.

226. 1:01:24

     I appreciate it. We, uh, a- as, uh, as, as my dear friend, uh, uh, Senator Lucas says, this, uh, he said today when we were in the chamber, he said, "We making sausage now, boys." Uh, Natasha, is that right? Natasha, do you mind... Natasha Taylor, is that...?

227. 1:01:42

     Yes.

228. 1:01:42

     Okay. From, uh-

229. 1:01:44

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. I'm Natasha-

230. 1:01:46

     I'm sorry, dear. You're gonna need to come up here and, and speak into the microphone. It's-

231. 1:01:51

     Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair, members of the committee. I am Natasha Taylor, Deputy Director of Georgia Watch. We are the state's leading consumer protection and advocacy organization, and we are in strong support of this consumer protection legislation. Georgians should be able to click to cancel as easy as they sign up for a subscript- subscription. Um, and this is a common sense approach to protect seniors and others from the harmful trap of costly subscript- subscription renewals. So we're, we're in strong support of this bill.

232. 1:02:20

     Okay.

233. 1:02:21

     Thank you.

234. 1:02:22

     Thank you. Thank you. Is there anybody else that

235. 1:02:28

     want to speak? All right. We've got, uh... My, my light's lighting up again here. Um-

236. 1:02:37

     Just-

237. 1:02:38

     Chairman Burns

238. 1:02:38

     ... j- just a request, Mr. Chairman. I, I, I see we have two other representatives available, and I was wondering if either Representative Beth Camp or Representative Clint Crowe would like to speak to the bill.

239. 1:02:54

     I'm

240. 1:02:54

     As an invitation.

241. 1:02:55

     Um, my dear friend, uh, Representative Beth Camp is always welcome to address the Ag Committee.

242. 1:03:01

     Thank you so much.

243. 1:03:02

     Mm-hmm.

244. 1:03:04

     Am I on? There we go.

245. 1:03:05

     I, I, I've got your light on, dear. I don't know if it's on or not, but it, on my end, it's on anyway.

246. 1:03:10

     We'll try. How about that? Thank you so much for hearing this bill. This was, uh, a measure we took them in House Ag. I do believe I'm a co-signer on the bill as well. This is an issue that impacts a lot of different people, and the biggest component, I think, in a nutshell, is that canceling is so challenging. Um, and I, I had that happen. My daughter's in college, or was in college, and she signed up for Grammarly, which is something people use to make sure their papers don't have something that's gonna get kicked out in other formats.

247. 1:03:43

     And when it renewed, I was surprised because I thought it had been canceled. And it was, you know, $200. And I could cancel it immediately after it automatically renewed, but I was still out the $200. Um, that was probably my fault, but the reality is sometimes people renew and it does go up dramatically, and there's not a mechanism right now really to do it. 24-month contracts are not really realistic. Most of us have less than 12 month.

248. 1:04:14

     Most of us have a month-to-month contract. And when we don't always understand it's gonna go up in value or it's gonna go up in cost, being able to cancel it is really important. And, you know, we're talking about gym memberships, we're talking about trash pickup, we're talking about lawn care services. We're talking about things that we order online sometimes, like exercise, workouts, and a whole litany of things. And being able to stop something that you started really, really easy, um, and it's really, really challenging to stop it, I think protecting individuals in our state's what we were sent here to do, so I am in support of this bill, and I'll answer any questions you have about it.

249. 1:04:59

     Governor. Sorry.

250. 1:05:02

     I... All right. Senator Howard.

251. 1:05:07

     I was just in a posture to move to due pass when appropriate.

252. 1:05:11

     All righty. Um-

253. 1:05:14

     If we could, Chairman, uh, Camp.

254. 1:05:17

     Um, Chairman Burns.

255. 1:05:19

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Representative Camp, as, as you look at the language here in, uh, the proposed legislation, do you,

256. 1:05:30

     do you see an advantage to requiring consent as opposed to allowing for automatic renewal under certain conditions?

257. 1:05:41

     And right now the conditions are more than a year and more than 50%. And th- this bill right now says 30 days you can get a prorated refund. Is that right?

258. 1:05:54

     Well, it does. If we're looking at LC443548S-

259. 1:05:58

     Correct

260. 1:05:59

     ... um, it's saying for any contract, lines 24 and 25, for any contract for service to a consumer that automatically renews for a specified period of one year or more that the increase to the cost of the consumer by 50% or more, a consumer who fails to terminate a service contract before the automatic renewal concellation- cancellation date shall within 30 days have such a deadline. So if this bill had been enacted, I could have gotten some of my $200 back from Grammarly.

261. 1:06:29

     Uh-

262. 1:06:30

     But the, but even... If I could, Mr. Chairman.

263. 1:06:33

     Yeah, go ahead, Chairman.

264. 1:06:35

     E- even if, uh, you could have gotten a refund

265. 1:06:39

     You were not well informed about the automatic renewal, is that correct?

266. 1:06:45

     Uh, if, again, if I got an email about it, I was not aware of it. I noticed it when it was actually on my credit card statement. We get so many emails. I mean, just as House and Senate members, my goodness, I get 4,000 emails a day some days.

267. 1:06:57

     Yep.

268. 1:06:57

     And in my personal email, I've done everything I could think of to try to reduce that number so it's manageable, but sometimes, um, Google thinks it's appropriate or Outlook thinks it's appropriate to send it to a junk spam folder, and I did not have any intention of it going to those places. And so because I didn't find it, I don't know until my credit card bill comes in that I'm now on the hook for that money. But in this case, there are two mechanisms, Senator, um, my dear friend who used to live in Barnesville.

269. 1:07:28

     I do.

270. 1:07:29

     Um, the situation being it's the contract for 12 months or more and increases the cost to 50%. So if the price didn't increase by 50%, then this bill would not have applied to my specific situation.

271. 1:07:43

     Sam, I have a question. It's no, no, uh, secret that I'm a huge music fan, and so I've got Sirius, right?

272. 1:07:51

     Sirius.

273. 1:07:51

     And, uh, I, I'm really asking, I think y- the bill's author may be able to answer this, but, uh, if, uh, if I sign up for Sirius, and every time that I do, you know, they'll, I'll add a radio or we trade vehicles and all that kind of stuff, and you're always, you know what I mean, having to update it, and it's aggravating, and then, you know. Um, but they'll give you, you know, the first six months th- this, you pay for one radio, and the other three radios are free.

274. 1:08:22

     And then after that six months, then, you know ... And they tell you going into it that, you know, the first six months that you're gonna have this, and then after that six months, it's gonna be regular price for whatever else. Um, how, how is this gonna affect something like that? Would, would ... Because it, you know, you're, it's free for the first six months or whatever, but then it kicks in. I, I'm just-

275. 1:08:44

     Mr. Chairman, Sirius is a good actor, believe it or not. With Sirius, I can go in there and say, "I'd like you to bill me for my year," and at the end of the year, my, my radio turns off. And when I'm getting in my car to ride to the beach or wherever I'm going, and I can't listen to the, the, the news, I go, "Oh my goodness, I need to renew my Sirius." And so they're, they're actually pretty flexible. They, they do kind of hope that you'll go ahead and do that initial $6 a month, and that you'll just kind of forget about. You kind of go, you get complacent, which a lot of people do, 'cause we're so busy.

276. 1:09:18

     Uh, b- but when you do call them and say, "Ooh, I don't like this anymore. I'm, I don't, I like, I love it at $8. I don't love it at 45," they say, "Oh, okay. Well, you know what? We actually will, we'll work with you on that," and they'll give you a, an offer. But they're a great actor 'cause they'll let you term, they'll let you have a specific term. It's the ones that say it ... The original bill was, it's fine to offer me an automatic renewal, but you shouldn't have to be able to force me to do it and get my credit card. Last year, one of my great friends on this committee said, "I just canceled my credit card." And I, and I thought- ...

277. 1:09:51

     "Well, that's outrageous. I, what if you got an Amex-"

278. 1:09:54

     I think he's on lawmakers right now.

279. 1:09:58

     Yeah. You've had an Amex for 25 years, and you're gonna have to-

280. 1:10:00

     They don't know, they don't know what's about to hit them.

281. 1:10:02

     They don't know that.

282. 1:10:03

     But, but Mr. Chairman, for, for, uh, Chairman Burns, uh, I do have a s- a, a different version of the bill. I can give it to you-

283. 1:10:10

     Please. I-

284. 1:10:10

     ... as language. It's not about the refund, it's about consent.

285. 1:10:15

     M-

286. 1:10:15

     And that's, that was House Bill 1224 that was actually passed in the House Ag Committee overwhelmingly-

287. 1:10:21

     Yes

288. 1:10:21

     ... with great bipartisan support. And it just says, for a year or more with a 50% price increase, you have to get my consent. It's the exact same language as the language-

289. 1:10:29

     Yeah

290. 1:10:29

     ... in the bill for over two years. It's just one years, but with a big old price increase, you also have to get my consent.

291. 1:10:36

     Mr. Chairman, I would like to interject. He was not listening to the news. He was listening to Elvis Radio when he was going to the beach.

292. 1:10:44

     Yes.

293. 1:10:44

     As any good-

294. 1:10:45

     Well done

295. 1:10:45

     ... American would be.

296. 1:10:47

     Amen. Amen.

297. 1:10:49

     Um, I don't know who to pick first here. I'm, uh, I'm probably gonna have to go with my fellow farmer down there on the end, if that's all right.

298. 1:10:59

     What, w- I mean, with so much discussion about this, what, are, are there other states that, that have legislation like this?

299. 1:11:07

     Yeah, a- absolutely. In fact, this, the version I just gave to, the version that you have in front of you, I, I met with Chairman Dolezal, who supports the bill as it is, and, uh, three different lobbyists last Friday, and they said, "Oh, well, this state," and I think they were talking about New York, "New York does exactly this, except they give a 14 days, uh, for the consumer to go ask for a refund." My original bill said 45 days, and they said, "We could live with 14 days. That'd be better." I said, "No. It needs to be at least 30 days.

300. 1:11:38

     They need to have enough time to ru- a cycle on their credit card statement or their bank statement, and I think that's fair." And they were c- they were fine with that at the time. But that, that's, that's an example of where New York does exactly that.

301. 1:11:50

     A- any other states have, specifically have a refund?

302. 1:11:53

     Uh, y- m- well, New York, um, does. Yes.

303. 1:11:57

     Okay.

304. 1:11:58

     Uh, I'm sure there are probably others, but ev- the iron- the irony is industry will say, "Well, we just don't wanna have a patchwork of different l- laws for 50 different states," except they already do. It's, it's, the, the arguments are paper thin, and at the end of the day, it's just we just don't want to change anything. We want you to get it and forget it. Every state has their own version of, of how they're trying to do this. There really should be a national standard. Um, we all t- you know, the, the, at the national level, the FTC had click to cancel bec- because they, they sort of, uh, it was c- it was defeated on a technicality.

305. 1:12:36

     There needs to be legislation passed at the national level. But in the meantime, I love that the states are incubators for great ideas and good legislation that others in DC can follow. You know, we balance our budget here. I think we need a resolution that says, we need to balance our budget up in Washington, DC, and I hope that they'll listen to us. Same thing here. Basic meat and potatoes. It's a paragraph. It's a little teeny bill, but it does pretty big things as far as bringing some relief.

306. 1:13:07

     Chairman Burns.

307. 1:13:09

     Thank you. I really have a request for industry representation. If we have industry representatives in the room, I'd like to ask you to come share your position.

308. 1:13:26

     I need to turn my own microphone on there. My dear friend, Senator Kemp, can I... Before we start that, I would, I'd like to, uh... Well, go ahead, and then we'll get to... Is that all right, Senator Kemp?

309. 1:13:37

     That's fine. He's probably gonna need to respond to my question.

310. 1:13:39

     Okay, okay. All right. Go, go, go ahead.

311. 1:13:41

     Thank you, Chairman Goodman, members of the committee. I appreciate the opportunity to, uh, be with you today, and, and I'll keep it short and sweet because I'm not authorized, honestly, to, uh, testify on this piece of legislation. I represent the streamers, uh, movie and television streamers with the Motion Picture Association of America. Um, I haven't heard one thing about any of my seven member companies, uh, and I appreciate that. We're not, we're not the ones, uh, fortunately, and knock on wood, receiving the complaints.

312. 1:14:16

     I did some research over the weekend about how to cancel, uh, the streaming services that our members operate, and they're as simple as two or three clicks. Um, I talked with, uh-

313. 1:14:31

     Okay

314. 1:14:31

     ... Representative Carter today, and we spoke about six weeks ago. Um, you know, we are good actors. Uh, we oppose the idea of government trying to dictate terms between customers, contracts between our customers, uh, and our companies. It's really as simple as that. And it's not a, a big policy debate. Um, it's, uh, you know, it's something that the business community and, and state chambers of commerce, particularly in pro-business states, uh, you know, take positions on every time these bills come up.

315. 1:15:11

     But I do represent the Motion Picture Association. We, uh, employ thousands and thousands of Georgians. We, uh, provide popular streaming services, and again, I'm not authorized to speak on this. I'm, I'm really, really confused by what we've heard today, um, and confusion is not what the market needs. All of my member companies are competing with each other to make sure that we keep our subscribers. And so we're not offering predatory, uh, products.

316. 1:15:44

     We're competing with each other and trying to do the best we can.

317. 1:15:50

     Okay. Um, just one second here if you don't mind.

318. 1:15:52

     Sure.

319. 1:15:52

     Keep your seat.

320. 1:15:53

     Chairman Goodman.

321. 1:15:53

     I've been trying to get to my friend Senator Kemp here. We've- I start at one end and go to the other and just...

322. 1:15:59

     No, thank you, uh, Representative, for your persistence in bringing this back. I vividly remember sitting down there at this, that end next to Senator Esteves at the time when he was asking you questions. Um, my question is getting to what Representative Camp was speaking to, uh, because it's, does not address, which i- something I think is very common, and it was the situation she shared with her daughter and Grammarly. So would it be harmful to your bill on line 25 to say period of one year or more, or that increases the costs to the consumer by 50% instead of saying and?

323. 1:16:41

     Sir, uh, uh, that's a great question, and I think it's a tremendous idea. Um, I've learned through hard knocks, uh, and being pragmatic like I am that, that, that there will be an onslaught-

324. 1:16:56

     Okay

325. 1:16:56

     ... uh, of, uh, uh, it, the, the bill will be besieged from- ... 96 different directions the second-

326. 1:17:02

     Yeah

327. 1:17:02

     ... I leave here.

328. 1:17:03

     Yeah.

329. 1:17:03

     And, and only we'll never see it, but the bill will just sort of go away into the vapor again.

330. 1:17:09

     Yeah.

331. 1:17:09

     Um, you, you know, I, I, I have reached out to industry a lot. I've encouraged them to... I said, "You tell me. You bring your version." So I, I get a little blind-sided when it's 10 minutes before I'm supposed to show up at your committee with a, "I'm, I'm concerned about this."

332. 1:17:24

     Mm.

333. 1:17:24

     All due respect to my, my colleague whom I, I'm crazy about. Great guy. But 10 minutes before I'm supposed to come meet with you? We've... This thing has been out here for a year.

334. 1:17:35

     Yeah.

335. 1:17:36

     You know? There's no concern when there's tax credits for film industry and things like that, but, but there's all kinds of concern here for this. Uh, a- and, and they're a good actor. They are good actors. This won't affect them. Unless you're, unless you plan to become a bad actor and start jacking up people's rates and expect to slip it by them and not get their consent or, or at least be halfway willing to work with them, it's not gonna affect these guys. It's certainly not gonna affect the month-to-month contracts. That's the whole intent was if you raise my price on a month-to-month contract, let's say I go from $50 to $200, and you get into me for a couple months, but then I see it, I'm like, "Oh, whoa, I'm, I can cancel that.

336. 1:18:15

     It's month to month." It's for the long-term contracts where they get you. I f- I have apps right now that here's what they do. I'd like to cancel this 'cause I liked it for 100, but I don't like it at 200. Okay, great, you're canceled, effective next March.

337. 1:18:30

     Yeah.

338. 1:18:30

     You're not getting your $200 back.

339. 1:18:33

     Yeah.

340. 1:18:33

     Um, they're all shapes and sizes. There are really good actors, and there are a lot of less scrupulous actors, and this is just designed to say it's, it's just a teeny little tweak to give consumers a little bit of a fighting chance, and it's not gonna affect the good actors at all. It's only gonna catch those unscrupulous guys who, who know what they're doing. They, they, they set out to g- See, in our bank, we ran a very tiny little bank I didn't succeed by forcing people to bank with me.

341. 1:19:08

     We just tried to provide a good service at a fair price, and take really good care of people, and they kept coming back. I think that's a pretty good way to go in business. I didn't, I, I didn't force them to stay with me.

342. 1:19:26

     Um-

343. 1:19:26

     Mr. Chairman

344. 1:19:27

     ... I'm s- uh, well, just one minute here. Uh, would you like to speak?

345. 1:19:31

     I, I just would like to say that I commend, uh, the bill's author for his efforts, and I know where his heart is. And I, I, uh, do feel, uh, like he does on, on many parts of, uh, how these things work. There may be ideas that we, we come across where we offer a whole year for free, and then $200, uh, you know, the next year. I, I don't know what the future holds, and how we're gonna be able to maintain a subscriber base and make some money.

346. 1:20:02

     Um, I wouldn't have gotten up here if I thought that there wasn't a chance, and I've been told by attorneys that this bill would impact us. And, and I appreciate you saying we're good actors. And maybe I'm either the dumbest one in the industry sector, or the one with the most guts, but, you know, I'm the only one up here. I appreciate the, your kindness and, uh, for, for hearing us.

347. 1:20:25

     Well, I mean, that's what it's all about. We trying to... And I, and I told-

348. 1:20:28

     Thanks

349. 1:20:28

     ... um, I told Representative Barrett that, you know, we, um, we would, uh, we would have this hearing. And, uh, give him, give him opportunity, and I'm a man of my word, and that's why, why we're here, you know? Uh, we, uh, we had some members in our caucus that, uh, um, they, uh, had, had some interest in this bill, and we're trying to, trying to work through that, and gave them every opportunity to try to do that. Um, Chairman Burns?

350. 1:21:00

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, I just wanna thank the witness for coming forward and sharing his input. And I'd also like to state my disappointment in that other industry actors chose not to comment, and not to attend, and not to participate. Uh, and I want them to understand that this is a, a, an issue and a problem we need to address, and we need to resolve. But this evening is not the evening, and I know that, uh, Representative Barrett has been on this trail for two years.

351. 1:21:33

     Uh, but I, I move to table House Bill 529.

352. 1:21:49

     Give me just a minute-

353. 1:21:50

     All right

354. 1:21:50

     ... uh, if you don't mind.

355. 1:21:57

     Motion to table takes precedence over a... Okay. I was gonna ask the attorney. All right, we have a motion on the table. We have a... Is there a second?

356. 1:22:06

     Second.

357. 1:22:08

     Okay, we have a motion, motion, and a motion and a second, uh, on a motion to table. All those in favor, signify by saying...

358. 1:22:19

     Point of order.

359. 1:22:20

     Okay, go ahead.

360. 1:22:21

     Uh, just point of order. Just wanna better understand, is it true we have an opportunity here to, uh, really add some consumer protections for a lot of our seniors who are a big voting base, who, who want this, who want us to make an effort, and that no bill is perfect, and we have an opportunity to make it better in the future?

361. 1:22:41

     They, um... Well, I'm not the president of the Senate, but I appreciate you sharing that.

362. 1:22:46

     Yeah, yeah.

363. 1:22:46

     That's, i- isn't it true?

364. 1:22:47

     It is not true.

365. 1:22:48

     Uh, but, uh, okay. Um, we... These are the rules of the Senate, and that-

366. 1:22:55

     Thank you

367. 1:22:55

     ... are the rules of all of them. I mean, I think it's the same in the House, if, if I'm not mistaken. Okay. Um, so we have, uh, a motion to table by Chairman Burns, and a second by Chairman Watson. All those in favor, signify by saying aye.

368. 1:23:08

     I think he wants to say something.

369. 1:23:09

     Aye.

370. 1:23:09

     We got... Did you need to discuss, discuss-

371. 1:23:11

     I'm sorry. Is there any discussion?

372. 1:23:13

     Yeah.

373. 1:23:14

     Uh, okay. Uh, Chairman Watson. 14?

374. 1:23:18

     Yes.

375. 1:23:19

     Okay.

376. 1:23:19

     As, as this discussion, if, if this were to happen, I'm still confused on how, in your situation, Wall Street would refund you your money in any timeframe. Um, so we've told them they have to do it, but when do they have to do it?

377. 1:23:36

     They do it, and, and they do it, uh, in that case, they do it within days. It's electronic, and it goes right back to your account.

378. 1:23:42

     But this doesn't require them to do that.

379. 1:23:45

     No, no, it doesn't. We're, we're not trying to... Listen, when we-

380. 1:23:49

     So we, but we've told them to refund you your money, but...

381. 1:23:54

     I, I mean, I'm, and I mean, I'm just... Yeah, okay.

382. 1:23:59

     Okay. Um, Senator Kemp.

383. 1:24:04

     Yeah, can you, uh, please remind us the vote in the House?

384. 1:24:09

     169 to two.

385. 1:24:11

     Thank you.

386. 1:24:12

     And then, uh, uh, subsequent hearings in the, in House Ag were just overwhelmingly and bipartisan. Uh, I, I, I think there, there was maybe one dissenting vote in the, in the House Agriculture Committee a- after four meetings, because 50% was too high. The House-

387. 1:24:29

     Mm

388. 1:24:29

     ... version was trying to push it d- down to 10% or lower as the, the amount of the increase.

389. 1:24:36

     Mm.

390. 1:24:37

     Uh, and it was just overwhelming. One, one dissenting vote because the 50% was too high.

391. 1:24:42

     Got it. Thank you.

392. 1:24:43

     Thank you.

393. 1:24:43

     Okay.

394. 1:24:43

     Mr. Chairman?

395. 1:24:44

     Go ahead, Chairman.

396. 1:24:45

     Is it, is it not true that a bill that is tabled can be called off the table at any time when agreement is reached on moving forward?

397. 1:24:51

     That is true, Mr. Chairman.

398. 1:24:51

     That is true.

399. 1:24:52

     Yeah.

400. 1:24:52

     So this does not kill this bill. It allows us to reach consensus on this bill. So I'd ask to call question on motion to table.

401. 1:25:03

     All right, we have a,

402. 1:25:06

     we have a motion and a second. Uh, all those in favor of tabling

403. 1:25:16

     House Bill 529, please signify by raising your, your right hand. All opposed. Uh, the motion carries three to two. Um...

404. 1:25:31

     Mr. Chairman?

405. 1:25:32

     Mm-hmm.

406. 1:25:32

     Could I ask, uh, for consideration at the next Ag meeting? Uh, you know, I work very closely with Chairman Dolezal, and this is the bill he supported. Um-

407. 1:25:41

     Okay

408. 1:25:41

     ... and then so I'm actually kind of surprised, saddened by-

409. 1:25:46

     I understand

410. 1:25:46

     ... by the fact that we're tabling this. How do we, how do we proceed from here?

411. 1:25:50

     Well, I don't even know when our next Ag committee meeting is. Let's, let's, let's talk offline, and we'll see what-

412. 1:25:59

     Okay

413. 1:26:00

     ... what we can do.

414. 1:26:00

     Thank you.

415. 1:26:01

     Okay? I've, I've-

416. 1:26:02

     Sure.

417. 1:26:04

     I did what I said I was gonna do.

418. 1:26:05

     Yes, sir.

419. 1:26:06

     I just, didn't work out quite the way I thought it would. But anyway, um, I've got to get to Health and Human Services, so thank you. Um-

420. 1:26:14

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman

421. 1:26:15

     ... and that meeting is adjourned.

422. 1:26:18

     Thank you.