Comité Ways & Means de la Cámara de Representantes, 26 de marzo de 2026

Transcripción

196 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:18:49

   Yeah. Can you get that teed up?

2. 0:19:05

   Thank you, uh, committee members for indulging us these last few days when we were still kind of trying to look and see what, um, what our friends over in the Senate, and appreciate the hard work that they put into, um, property tax. But we'll go ahead and, and call the Ways and Means Committee meeting to order. And I... Chairman, uh, Smith, you mind?

3. 0:19:30

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If you would pray with me. Lord, you know there, there are a lot of people that need your healing hand today. We hear it each day in our communities. And, uh, as a great physician, we ask that you reach out to these people, comfort them, take care of them, and watch over our families and our children and our grandchildren. Take care of them. And watch over the committee here, Lord. We're trying to make some big decisions for citizens, and ask us to do the things that are in your will.

4. 0:20:01

   And thank you for all the people that are working in this arena, in this state capital. Uh, just lead, guide, and direct us, Lord, in everything we do and say. In Jesus' name. Amen.

5. 0:20:11

   Amen. Thank you. Uh, Representative Barrett, did you have... Your light went off. Did you have... Were you calling the question?

6. 0:20:22

   I was calling the question.

7. 0:20:27

   It doesn't. It was-

8. 0:20:29

   You're running that machine the wrong way.

9. 0:20:31

   Oh. I mean, the, the chair will entertain a motion. I mean, I, you know.

10. 0:20:36

    Y'all sent too far. I think close to the light.

11. 0:20:40

    Uh.

12. 0:20:42

    I'm eight inches, 10 inches away from that thing.

13. 0:20:48

    Oh, um.

14. 0:20:49

    You haven't come to Upper Dale.

15. 0:20:53

    Sorry, Representative Barrett. I... That's probably unfair of me. I... But you did hit the... It was blinking, in fairness. Now, your, your light was blinking, so. All right. Well, thank you very much. Uh, thanks again, uh, everybody. We, we did, um, uh, uh... And, and again, I appreciate Chairman Hufstedler and the work that he's put into, uh, our legislation over in the Senate. Uh, I think they have, have really made a strong effort, uh, to, to try to help our property owners. I think, um, you know, here in the House, we've r- really been laser focused, uh, on what, um, we're hearing from our homeowners as well.

16. 0:21:30

    And I think as different iterations, uh, have, have, have come up, we've, you know, we've seen less i- in, in the, the bill to help our homeowners. And I, I think we wanted to, uh, revisit that. And as we've had some more conversations with legi- legislative council and looking at the options that are on the table, you know, and knowing that, you know, again, our, our homeowners and property owners, you know, many across the state have gotten crushed i- in the last few years, uh, as we've seen, uh, assessments spike, um, across the state.

17. 0:22:04

    And that's not to say that there aren't those, uh, in, in certain parts of our state that are really doing a, a great job and working really hard to try to keep those down. But, uh, we have certain- certainly seen some of that, um, jump and spike. I was gonna run through these slides again just real quick, um, David, to...

18. 0:22:27

    You got it right here.

19. 0:22:31

    I think this is, this is, again, just, just, just to remind everyone, um, that when we talk to, uh, when we hear from and, and run into some of these roadblocks that we're getting, uh, on, on real relief to our homeowners, I think what, what, what we're seeing here is, is really abuse, uh, in some cases. But you've got, um... This is, this is what the local sales tax has increased, uh, I think from 19 to, to 24, so you've got a, a $3.5 billion increase there.

20. 0:23:08

    You see where our, uh, CPI and our median income has fallen roughly, you know, half or a- you know, just over half respectively. Um, you see where, where we're at on property tax at that 49%, uh, increase and spike, and that doesn't include 2025, so that's another six and a half. And if you include 25, uh, closer to $7 billion in, in increases. Uh, overall homestead property tax is somewhere between five and six billion.

21. 0:23:40

    And I would be happy to share these slides, uh, with anybody that is interested in them. C- do you have some, some more? Uh, just going and looking at some of the individual, uh, areas across our state, um, that is, uh, a, a few hundred million dollar increase there. Um, 68% increases in, uh, Gwinnett County. Can you go next? There's, uh, City of Atlanta, 409 million, uh, to 675 million.

22. 0:24:14

    You look at the, the median income and, and again, what the s- consumer price index has done. Uh, next slide. Uh, there's one of our... There's Athens-Clarke County Board of Education. We've got a 66% increase. And as you can see, the student population has, has steadily, um, kind of mildly declined. So, uh, again, uh, tens of millions of, of additional, uh, dollars, uh, on our, on our taxpayers. Do we have any?

23. 0:24:45

    Uh, there's in Floyd County, we heard that from Chairman Hufstedler. Very similar- Uh, Forsyth County Board of Education, 52%. Um, now they do have a, an increase in student population and I think some growth there.

24. 0:25:02

    That-

25. 0:25:03

    Uh, and I, I think latest, uh, numbers that we had w- were in Decatur. I think the Decatur schools were up 83% and, uh, 52% for the City of Decatur. So, um, I know some of their, their costs are going up, and we would certainly hear that, and we, we understand and we wanna be respectful as, uh, uh, of our local governments as, as those conversations go forward. But a- again, I think our intent is also knowing that, that government does not exist without the taxpayer, and, and how do we focus and help our, our taxpayers and our homeowners, which are not income-producing properties.

26. 0:25:43

    Um, so, uh, with the latest, uh, version of, of, of this, uh, 382, um, still very similar to what we have seen before. We take, um, the F lost and enable that to be used for homestead relief. Um, w- we, uh, we roll down our homestead property tax using the 581 provisions, um, and the ballot question that passed, uh, to, to cut pr- homeowner property tax in half, um, over the next five years.

27. 0:26:26

    We continue to provide that exemption, um, for schools and increase their, um, their reserve fund up to 25%, and then the, uh, truth in taxation is still incorporated here. We also include a, um, a non-binding ballot question so that we can hear directly from the, the voters on this particular issue. Um, be happy to try to address or look at any questions.

28. 0:26:58

    Um, I see a few, few lights, um, flashing up. I think number two came in first. Chair, Chairman Prince.

29. 0:27:08

    Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chair. And going back to your slides, and you talked about the, uh, population, I guess, in the public schools, 'cause that's public schools going down. Is that ... Is-

30. 0:27:18

    On those particular ones, that's correct.

31. 0:27:20

    Yes.

32. 0:27:20

    Yes, sir.

33. 0:27:21

    Is that, uh ... I mean, do we know why that, uh, could be? Is it 'cause of more private schools stepping up with, uh, s- uh, s- gold scholarships and things like that?

34. 0:27:32

    I, I ... You know, I think if that's, it, it, that, that's probably something that would have to be asked of those particular entities. We're kind of looking at the numbers here.

35. 0:27:40

    Right.

36. 0:27:40

    Yes, sir.

37. 0:27:42

    Okay.

38. 0:27:42

    Thank you.

39. 0:27:47

    All right. Representative Neal?

40. 0:27:52

    Yes. Thank you to the chair. Um, thank you to the committee. So, um, uh, I have been trying to, you know, work, uh, with you all, um, um, um, in private meetings trying to, um, come up with a solution. Um, and I know also I've submitted, um, I've submitted a few ideas related to a rentals tax credit that I think, you know, I've, I've submitted to you, Mr. Chairman, a few others, um, because people such as renters won't be able to take advantage of this even though they're occupying these homes.

41. 0:28:24

    Can we go back to the first slide? That, that might, might be of, of help.

42. 0:28:29

    Okay.

43. 0:28:29

    Yes.

44. 0:28:30

    Um, and so when it comes to other aspects of it, 'cause I, I know we're trying to, um, of course, you know, be very considerate of the, the homeowners, and I, I'm 100% with you, but, um, another part of my, um, recommendations I submitted was to, um, make an exception for certain sales or consump- uh, consumer items from the perspective of we wanna, you know, do the cost saving for the property taxes, but if their other consumption items go up, it's like the cost are being shifted from one thing to another.

45. 0:29:00

    And so I was trying to, you know, provide ideas that would provide a balance so we can help, um, on both sides of it instead of, you know, just shifting, um, the cost to another, uh, type of tax. And so, um, I just want to submit to the body that, you know, I, I, I, I have submitted items and wanted to try to find a good balance here. Um, and, uh, I hope we can kind ... I hope we can get there. My goal is for us to get there, um, and I've always been trying to work, uh, amicably, um, to find a good solution.

46. 0:29:30

    Well, thank you, Representative. I appreciate that question. I, I would reinforce that the, the five penny cap that's currently in place remains in place.

47. 0:29:37

    Mm-hmm.

48. 0:29:38

    Um, so you, you wouldn't see any, uh, any added sales tax in the version that's presented here.

49. 0:29:44

    Okay.

50. 0:29:44

    And I think that's something that I think you, you and others have made a strong point. Um, and even the it- different iterations that have been brought to us by different local governments, um, you know, may have varied from that sum. And when we tried to incorporate those, you know, we tried to, to get the feedback and then, then move forward. I think the rate, uh, that you've seen rent jump in conjunction with property taxes here-

51. 0:30:08

    Mm-hmm

52. 0:30:08

    ... is indicative of, of the problem. And I, I think that the caps that we put in place, if you look at what that would do over time, would probably trend more in that 24 to 29% rate over that same period of time, which would give, you know, increases that are, you know, modest, um, for, for local governments because, you know, the caps are exclusive of growth if you have new growth.

53. 0:30:31

    Mm-hmm.

54. 0:30:31

    And they allow for emergencies, and they give you the opportunity either through a local act or a referendum to raise that cap. So again, enough flexibility, but at the same time giving some predictability not only for homeowners, but for renters and for, you know, hopefully other property owners and income-producing properties alike.

55. 0:30:48

    So when you're thinking through the concept, you're, you're surmising that if you do something related to, um-

56. 0:30:57

    trying to, you know, cut the property taxes that you're thinking that they would then drop the rental rates? There's certainly a better chance of that- Yes ... but there's no guarantee of it. Yeah, that's correct. Yes, ma'am. I mean- Okay ... there, there, we w- we would hope. Mm-hmm. Um, let's see. Who was next? Chairman Carpenter. Thank you so much. Um, this, I've got another question, but my first question is, uh, as much as... Is it not true that as much as we're trying to do for property taxes, if we don't, if the local municipalities don't decide to control their budget and their spending, um, to me, that's the, the, the quickest and easiest way to solve the property tax issue, is to con- the locals to control their spending and make cuts when cuts are need to be made.

57. 0:31:41

    Is that not true? I think that's always an option, Mr. Chairman. I think that that is always an option. I, I think that, you know, the, what, what we hear, I, I think with these massive increases from our local citizenry oftentimes is that the services have not necessarily expanded or even improved. And so, um, you know, you know, it, it's kind of a, a head-scratcher at times, if you will. Yes, sir. Excellent point. And then my next, my next question would be, on section 22, the compilation of the sales tax data, um, is there, is this just to plant a seed for a future conversation about where sales tax are collected, how SPLOST is divided, et cetera?

58. 0:32:19

    Have those conversations moving forward- But you- ... but you wanna have the data first? It, it is, yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. Exactly. Okay. Thank you. Um, 26 is, uh, Chair Lady Camp. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you for your work and diligence on this. Um, one thing I do like that, very much like the original bill, it has the measured escalation. It's not all at once, so thank you for that. Um, one challenge that one of my school districts brought to me, I'm trying to find the section again, is the 3% cap, a limitation on increase.

59. 0:32:54

    Um, I have a district, a school district in my legislative district that has a very high instance of children w- who are IEP or 504, and, um, they were concerned that 3% might be limiting, um, because they do have so many students with special needs. Has there been any discussion or consideration on trying to figure out districts that might have e- economical needs that are above and beyond a, a typical school district?

60. 0:33:25

    Uh, I, I think if you, if you look at the, the s- study committee that, that we have just dropped, I think it will be read, um, tomorrow and that we've had conversation wi- with, uh, that, that that is designed to address, uh, what, what exactly you're speaking to. And now it's out of my lane a little bit, Madam Chair, but I, I think a lot of the, the money, there's a lot of federal money that does flow to our schools regarding, you know, special needs. Um, I would also indicate, you know, a- and again, I've had several conversations, as you know, trying to, to, to talk to, to some of the schools across the state.

61. 0:34:03

    And, um, as we've talked about the cap, and I've mentioned some of the provisions that I think are not always understood, sometimes misunderstood, what we found is, or what I've found to be the case, is that if they look back 10 years or maybe more, that they would find very few instances where that cap would've come into play. Um, in particular in rural Georgia, that has been the case. All right. Thank you so much. Thank you. I look forward to reading the study committee bill. Yeah.

62. 0:34:33

    Thank you.

63. 0:34:38

    Mm-hmm. They, they can, they can go to referendum too or, or by local act they can exceed the cap. So they can? Yes. Okay. Yes. That's insane to that.

64. 0:34:50

    Yeah. Uh, okay. 16. W- was it 16 or 17? 16. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I have a question about how this will affect the counties that are currently doing a good job and are already using rollbacks for their property taxpayers. Um, I can't quite be sure what to tell them about this bill and its impacts on the good work that they are currently doing.

65. 0:35:20

    I'm sorry. Do you mind restating your question, Madam Representative? I do not mind. I apologize. As many questions as I've asked you, I don't mind. My phone went off and I looked down for a second, and I'm sorry. Um, I have got a county that's doing a really good job, that has been doing rollbacks for years to their property tax, uh, um, payers, and they are really concerned that this will have an adverse effect on them and the activities that they have been doing. Whi- which, uh, w- which- And it- ...

66. 0:35:51

    which government? Meriwether County. Okay, so a county. All right. Yes. It's, it's a county. I di- I didn't mean to get specific. Okay. We're- And, and they, they, they are n- not one of the ones that gets a lot of complaints, and it was actually when I talked to Brett Harrell, he says, "This is interesting." So I'm concerned that this will have an adverse effect on them. Is there anything in here that you can point to that I can verify that they're gonna be okay? Can you, can you tell me what, what part they're concerns? They don't want their rollback adversely affected.

67. 0:36:23

    They wanna keep doing things the way that they're doing it. And, and they, they will still be able to, to do that the same way that they are currently doing. Um- So- ... it just would, it would prevent, you know, the, the spikes and increases, um, you know, the cap w- would, and then you'd have some relief that's spread out over time for homeowners included as well. They would- So they're getting relief every year with about... Because if, if they had opted in, for example, it was gonna cost, immediately cost their taxpayers 3% more instead of it being less with the opt-in, so.

68. 0:36:58

    Well, there certainly won't be anything to force them to increase taxes. Uh-

69. 0:37:06

    But will it mess up their plan? That's what I've got to go home and tell. So if you can find that and tell me where it is in here so I can point to it, I'd-

70. 0:37:13

    I'd, I'd be glad to. Yes, ma'am. Let me take a, a little- Let me get a little better understanding of where, where they're at and I c- I would, I can, I can probably dive into that particular county a little bit better.

71. 0:37:23

    Thank you.

72. 0:37:24

    Or we can. Thank you. Thank you. Yes, ma'am. Um, I think Representative Frye.

73. 0:37:32

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. And Mr. Chair, I gotta tell you, thank you so much for all your hard work, and this committee's worked really hard on this. It's, I know it's a contentious issue. There's a million different opinions here, and, um, but you've carried the weight of this state on your shoulders working on this. So-

74. 0:37:53

    Thank you

75. 0:37:54

    ... I appreciate that. Um-

76. 0:37:57

    Thank you

77. 0:37:57

    ... I do have a couple questions, if I may.

78. 0:38:00

    Thank you. Um, yes, sir.

79. 0:38:03

    Um, and you know, isn't it true that the State of Georgia were victims of our own success? When we... I got here 14 years ago, and I think immediately when I walked in the door, we were the n- I heard we were the number one state to do business. And when you focus a decade and a half of energy on making this the greatest state to do business in and attracting businesses to this state, then we're gonna have people come to this state, and people wanna be here.

80. 0:38:42

    And as a micro version of that, I see that in Athens, where people want to be in Athens, thus that drives up the costs for everyone else

81. 0:38:57

    in the city or the state where people wanna be. Then you combine that with a lot of our housing stock being bought up, whether it's corporate interest or private interest with Airbnb and Vrbo. When you got people from California buying property sight unseen just from pictures on the internet and paying list price, you're gonna see our costs of housing rise just by the nature of the market.

82. 0:39:33

    Um-

83. 0:39:34

    Through no fault of our-

84. 0:39:36

    S- through no fault of anybody-

85. 0:39:38

    Of our, of our-

86. 0:39:39

    Of our property owners-

87. 0:39:40

    ... our local homeowners

88. 0:39:40

    ... at all.

89. 0:39:40

    Yeah.

90. 0:39:41

    And, and I totally, uh, understand that. I'm just wanting to point that out, that if we wanna make a great place for everybody to be, people are gonna come here, and it's gonna cost more. Um, e- e- even our state budget from 2019 to the one we're working on right now has risen 62%. Our state budget has risen 62% in that same time period that all those graphs are showing,

91. 0:40:13

    which is something maybe we need to look at in general. Um-

92. 0:40:19

    I, I would, I w- I would, you know, probably reference the $10, $11 billion return to the taxpayer-

93. 0:40:27

    Absolutely

94. 0:40:27

    ... over that period of time

95. 0:40:28

    Absolutely.

96. 0:40:28

    But yes, sir, I, I-

97. 0:40:29

    I mean, it still-

98. 0:40:30

    ... point taken

99. 0:40:31

    ... it's the budget. The budget, even with those, um, monies returned, the budget has risen as much as the graphs are showing. Okay? And it is the situation that we really need to provide relief. I, myself, do not feel like I'm gonna be able to afford to retire in the home i- I live in if the prices keep rising, so I absolutely understand. Um, my q- my question regarding the bill is...

100. 0:41:07

     Well, after that soliloquy, I lost it.

101. 0:41:12

     Can I come back to you? I know we have some other questions.

102. 0:41:13

     Yes, please come back to me. I'll have another question, but I appreciate you entertaining the-

103. 0:41:17

     Yes, sir

104. 0:41:17

     ... the question that I had. I just wanna, want everybody to understand that it's not just a place that has a bad government or a bad school system that's assessing properties willy-nilly. There's a formula in which we assess properties that we're, assessors are supposed to follow, okay? So that formula can be looked at. And, um-

105. 0:41:41

     Some governments can roll back

106. 0:41:43

     ... they're just not, they're not wasting money as much as people are thinking. We just happen to have a lot of growth in the state right now. But I'll come back with my question. I appreciate you.

107. 0:41:52

     Well, I, I appreciate the gentleman's perspective. I think that's probably true in some places and not so true in others. Yes, sir.

108. 0:41:58

     Yes, sir. I agree.

109. 0:41:59

     Uh, is that, uh, uh, Chairman Martin?

110. 0:42:02

     Yes.

111. 0:42:05

     I'll come back to you, Representative.

112. 0:42:05

     How long do we have the, how, how long do we have the room, Mr. Chairman?

113. 0:42:10

     You have a soliloquy as well?

114. 0:42:12

     I, I do not.

115. 0:42:12

     Okay.

116. 0:42:13

     Uh, I do, and I will, I will hold that for later. Um, is, isn't it true, Mr. Chairman, that we, um, we, a number of people worked a, a great deal this summer on, on a plan, um, to, that we brought forward earlier in this year that included a constitutional amendment?

117. 0:42:35

     No, well, it was a question. I'll, I'll, I'm, I'm not in a hurry. I'll...

118. 0:42:40

     I had three people talking to me at one time.

119. 0:42:42

     Yeah. Yes, sir.

120. 0:42:42

     Sorry about that.

121. 0:42:43

     And you, you know, and you only have two ears. If it'd just been two, I'm sure you could've pulled it off. Yeah, I, my point was isn't it true that you worked all summer with a number of people and you brought forth a, a plan that involved a number of things, but included the need for a constitutional amendment, and we brought that before the, the, the body earlier this year?

122. 0:43:00

     That gentleman is correct.

123. 0:43:01

     And, and with respect to my friends on the other side of the aisle, f- I think to, almost to a man, um- An individual on the floor, uh, that was not supported and then, um, uh, by them. Uh, I don't remember exactly what the vote, but we failed to get the two-thirds vote.

124. 0:43:15

     That is correct. Last one.

125. 0:43:16

     A- after which you have done a yeoman's job of trying to put something together to give taxpayers relief, um, that we, that they so sorely need. Isn't, is that true, what we're trying to do here?

126. 0:43:30

     I, I, I think this has very much been a we thing. I mean, we have been-

127. 0:43:33

     Okay

128. 0:43:33

     ... we have been doing this as, as a body. I think we have been doing this, um, meeting individually and with others. And, uh, you know, the minute somebody suggests from, uh, one county or city to add a sales tax and somebody says, "You're raising my sales tax," and so it comes out. And the minute somebody says, "Reduce, you know-

129. 0:43:50

     Yeah. Yes, sir

130. 0:43:51

     ... homeowner property tax," we, you know, it, it has been a evolving thing. And I, I, I think we continue to try to strike the right balance.

131. 0:43:58

     Yes.

132. 0:43:58

     Mr. Chairman.

133. 0:43:59

     Yeah. Yes, sir.

134. 0:44:00

     You're correct.

135. 0:44:00

     And, and Chairman J- please understand, my, my, my reference to you was not a, a singular you.

136. 0:44:04

     No, no, no. I just-

137. 0:44:04

     I, I should say we, we there that you... And my, my point I was trying to get here is wh- while, while this, while this may seem to, to have to b- have been dynamic over the last few days and weeks, it was precipitated by the fact that the, the well-thought-out plan that was put together, uh, wasn't able to move forward because it was blocked. And, and i- isn't it further true that to the gentleman from Athens' point about education, you know, um, spending and, and so forth, you know, our budget going up in the state, that the numbers I'm looking at here had, had a $4 billion increase over that same period of time that we spend on K through 12 education in addition to the education money we get.

138. 0:44:43

     And that's not to say that some school systems aren't, aren't using that m- money well. It's just to say that this is costing our homeowners a, a lot more money than, than it was two, two or four or six years ago. So the, the question that, that I have is, isn't the difference in what y- you, what we are trying to do, I'm, I was about to use you again. What, what this legislature is trying to do is to provide the relief on someone for their home because to them, that is a place where they live, that i- that does not provide income for them.

139. 0:45:20

     That is, that is where they live. It might be worth more to a tax assessor by two times than it was five years ago, or in some cases three or four times than it was 10 years ago. But to them, it is the, the house they live in, and they're getting the same value for living in it they were when they bought it 10 years ago. But in s- in some cases, they're paying two, three, or four times more to live there. Isn't that true?

140. 0:45:45

     The, the gentleman knows where he speaks.

141. 0:45:46

     And I'll just, the last, the last thing I wanna wrap back around to. Isn't it true in your original proposal you had a way, and proposed that with a, in, in twined with that constitutional amendment, where you were gonna allow the cities and counties to provide for revenue sources on a fee for service that could have allocated those costs more proportionately to front doors without regard to taxing retired folks out of their homes? Isn't that the original plan that was thwarted by, uh, uh, the chairman of-

142. 0:46:15

     The chairman, chairman knows of what he speaks. Yes, sir.

143. 0:46:17

     Thank you.

144. 0:46:22

     All right. Uh, Representative Neal, did you have another question?

145. 0:46:25

     I did. Um-

146. 0:46:27

     Questions were complicated

147. 0:46:27

     ... and actually I was hoping that, um, uh, Chair Camp was gonna be here 'cause I, it, it was a follow-up to her reference. But your response is more so what I was interested in. So, um, you met- you mentioned the federal money for special needs, and I was trying to actually do the research while you two were talking through that. Um, but as we know about the Department of Education kind of being dismantled, and when I was looking it up, um, 30 million has already been taken away for special needs, um, and more is to come. And so when you referenced to her like, "Hey, the money coming from federal government to local governments for certain things," that's a special needs.

148. 0:47:03

     If that ends up not being something that's feasible that actually happens, like, do you have a solve for, like, like, what does that look like, um, like, when it comes to, to that? How do you account for that?

149. 0:47:15

     I appreciate the correction, and I, I would probably defer to the education folks-

150. 0:47:19

     Okay

151. 0:47:19

     ... you know, on that front, you know-

152. 0:47:21

     Okay

153. 0:47:21

     ... as a, as a, as a problem that we're not able to solve every problem with this. But we are trying to solve, you know, more on the property tax homeowner front with this.

154. 0:47:30

     Okay.

155. 0:47:30

     Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

156. 0:47:31

     Okay.

157. 0:47:32

     Um, Representative Frye, were you ready to-

158. 0:47:35

     Yes, sir.

159. 0:47:35

     Yes, sir.

160. 0:47:37

     Um, so this 3% cap, do we anticipate that our municipalities, government subdivisions will have trouble with their bond issuance for capital improvements based on the idea that their ability to collect income and service the debt would be limited? Um, a- and I say this in the idea that I think there was testimony of a neighboring city that actually

161. 0:48:18

     lost their, their bond company would not accept their sales tax as guarantee, and so they were having to put all of their digest into the deal instead of sales tax. And if we limit that, we're gonna limit our cities from being able to access capital potentially. Isn't it true?

162. 0:48:42

     I don't know. I've had a lot of mixed conversation along those lines, Representative Frye, and I would say the bond market does get very complicated and probably a little bit, you know, more so than I, I, I, I know of. And I think the way that it was most cleanly presented to me is that, you know, when I go get a mortgage from a bank, that they don't ask me if my income's gonna go up, uh, every year in order to secure that mortgage. Um, you know, I, I, I, it's based on my current income. And so if you, um, allow a replacement and, you know, you have a, a modest level of increase available, um, you know, I, I think, you know, that probably enters into the conversation a little bit with regards to those, those bonds.

163. 0:49:26

     And that was maybe the simplest and easiest for me to understand argument. Was there another ... Y- y- I know you said you had a couple of questions. I didn't wanna-

164. 0:49:34

     I got a couple, but, um, I'll, I'll go ahead and defer to other members right now.

165. 0:49:38

     Okay. All right. Thank you, Representative. Thank you for the question. Um,

166. 0:49:44

     14. Yeah, Chairman Martin.

167. 0:49:46

     Yeah, yes, sir. Just to follow up on the gentleman's question on the, on the revenue cap, and I, I'm not positive 'cause I was just looking at it this morning. Would a ... If, if the voters w- if they went to the ... If a city or county went to the voters with a $100 million general revenue bond, 'cause they have to go to the voters to get a general fu- a general bond thing, would that not function as the vote? If, if they said, "Hey, we're doing $200 million in revenue and that's gonna be a two mil tax increase," that would be a vote and it would be exclusive of the 3% cap, would it not?

168. 0:50:15

     The, uh, uh, of an e- e- extemporaneous amount there?

169. 0:50:19

     Yeah, if, if, if ... Yeah, if they, if they had a capital project they wanted to do and they took that to the voters in a general fund bond question-

170. 0:50:26

     Sure. You've got to vote

171. 0:50:27

     ... would that, would that bond question itself not function as the, the vote-

172. 0:50:30

     Part of the referendum

173. 0:50:31

     ... you're talking about here to exceed the 3%?

174. 0:50:33

     I would think so, Mr. Chairman.

175. 0:50:34

     And, and if not, as we move forward, we'd wanna make sure of that, I believe.

176. 0:50:37

     I think so.

177. 0:50:38

     Because they are going to the voters for the, the permission to do that.

178. 0:50:41

     And it's very much a part of the ...

179. 0:50:43

     Yeah. I th- I thought that was the gentleman's intent.

180. 0:50:48

     All right, 23. Chairman Williamson?

181. 0:50:52

     Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I'm on. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. And we keep talking about this cap of 3%, but it is not true. It's the greater of 3% or the rate of inflation.

182. 0:51:01

     It is true.

183. 0:51:02

     That is true. So just to clarify that. Um, but, uh, Mr., Mr., uh, Chair, I appreciate all your leadership on this and I make a motion do pass.

184. 0:51:14

     Second.

185. 0:51:15

     All right. Um, we have a, a motion do pass and a second. I did have one other, uh-

186. 0:51:20

     I was gonna-

187. 0:51:21

     Is that Representative Cannon?

188. 0:51:21

     I was gonna make a motion.

189. 0:51:22

     Make a motion. All right. Is there any further discussion on the motion?

190. 0:51:31

     All right. Uh, hearing none, all those in favor, uh, of passage of LC339912s on Senate Bill 382, please signify by stating aye. Aye. Those opposed, like sign. Nay. All right. Bill passes. I, uh, recognize, uh, Vice Chairman Kelley.

191. 0:51:52

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I just wanted to take this opportunity to thank you. Thank you for the leadership. Thank the Speaker for his leadership. We're sent down here to protect taxpayers, and throughout this entire process that's extended over half a year now, that's been the focus of House Republicans, you and the Speaker. At every turn, we've been met by opposition by the Senate Democrats, uh, at times by our local governments and certainly by Senate Republicans. That's a shame, and I appreciate the work that you're doing 'cause that's who we're here to represent, not some special interest group at any level of government.

192. 0:52:25

     And, um, I hope that we can get this over the finish line. Thank you.

193. 0:52:32

     Thank you, Representative Kelley. Um, is there any other ... Anybody have anything further for the good of the order? Seeing none, uh, I would ... We have a birthday in the audience today. Didn't we do this last time? We get to embarrass Austin Gibbons over there. Aw. Happy birthday, Austin.

194. 0:52:56

     What are you, about 27, 24, 23?

195. 0:53:00

     I'm old enough to drink the products we regulate.

196. 0:53:05

     I don't see any ... Thank you. Thank you, committee members. We stand adjourned.