Comité Small Business Development de la Cámara de Representantes, 17 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

219 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:10:35

   Yeah, go ahead. Go ahead and sit down. We'll go ahead and call this meeting to order. All right, good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We're gonna go ahead and call the Small Business Development Committee to order. And the first thing we're gonna do is Chairman Tolliver, who's volunteered to do our, our, our opening prayer. So Chairman Tolliver, Tolliver. Yeah.

2. 0:10:55

   Thank you, Mr. Chairman. If I could take just a second to tell you, I, I really appreciate these meetings. They're very informative to me, and, uh, you guys are, uh, uh, help educate us, and we appreciate you being here. Uh, this is the busiest day I've had on the calendar, uh, since I've been here in 11 years. It's, it's wall-to-wall, and a lot of people who've got constituents in. And rest assured that w- your presentations are viewed by people because it's, it's recorded online and it's, uh...

3. 0:11:30

   But everybody's really busy from people coming in from, uh, high school groups and things like that. So let's go to the Lord in prayer. Heavenly Father, we thank you, uh, for this time we have here together, and we pray, Lord, that, uh, we would be better stewards of, uh, uh, of our time and our duties to our constituents, and that you lead, guide, and direct us, and that we would, uh, always do what's bless- best for the citizens and pleasing to you. For it's in Christ's name we pray, amen.

4. 0:12:06

   Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for those, those remarks and, of course, the prayer. All right, we'll go ahead and get started. Hunter, the microphone is yours.

5. 0:12:15

   All right. Well, thank you, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. I understand some folks will be filtering in and, like you said, folks are, uh, watching online, but it's great to be with you again. Uh, my name's Hunter Loggins. I'm the state director for the National Federation of Independent Business, the nation's leading small business advocacy association. Uh, in Georgia, we have roughly 7,000 members spanning across all industries, uh, some represented on this committee and some with me today.

6. 0:12:46

   Uh, we are a one member, one vote organization, so if you see me or you see our logo on something, that means it's vitally important for small business. So you see me, uh, down at the Capitol every day, but what you don't see are the hardworking members of our, uh, organization. They are the moms and pops, 20 or fewer employees, restaurants, small manufacturers, bus dealers, jewelry store owners, uh, everything. So when...

7. 0:13:18

   Y- you'll h- often hear me say it's tough for a small business owner to take 30 minutes away from their day for lunch, much less come down to the Capitol. So when, when our members come down, it, it, it's a source of great pride for me, and, uh, I'm glad you, you guys get to, get to hear what their issues are. Uh, like I said, it, it ranges from whatever industry they're in. So if the, there's an issue that has legislation that's pending, uh, in the General Assembly this year, I will be able to tell you about it.

8. 0:13:49

   They're not policy experts, and heck, ne- neither am I, but I do my best. Um, so if there is a bill going through that could help them, uh, with their issue, I'll be sure to, to tell you about it. And if not, it's a perfect opportunity for legislation to grow. Like you said, Representative Tarvin, this, uh, this, a lot of times in this committee, legislation blossoms from it. Uh, two years ago, we got an exemption for tangible personal property increased, uh, to 20,000. That was huge. So that's just one prime example.

9. 0:14:20

   Um, with me today, I've got Fritz Engelmann. Uh, he's gonna tell you a little bit about his business and the, the issues that's, I, I don't, I don't wanna say plaguing, but maybe you could choose a better word for it. So thank you.

10. 0:14:35

    Thank you. I'm Fritz Engelmann. I own Classic Bus Sales out of, uh, Clarksville, Georgia. We, uh, sell new and used, uh, vehicles to, uh, the commercial sector like the, um, hotels, daycare. Uh, we also bid on state contracts. Um, I've been a, uh, franchise dealer and used car dealer. Uh, I was both up until last year when all of a sudden they, they said I only could have one, which is understandable.

11. 0:15:06

    Um, so I can kind of speak on this. And I'm not gonna, I'm not here to complain or anything. I, what I'm really gonna speak on is, uh, things that the state may be able to do to help other dealers or curb, uh, fraud and wastefulness. Um, right now, used car dealer and franchise dealer are managed by two different state entities. Department of Revenue does franchise. Used cars under Secretary of State. Uh, absolute waste of resources.

12. 0:15:39

    One should manage both, and then there should not really be a franchise or used car dealer. You're a automotive retailer. Uh, franchise dealers sell used vehicles also. The difference is, uh, a franchise dealer has none of the, um, uh, inspections. They're self-governed, where a used car dealer, uh, since I've been on that side, is treated more of a, uh, it's like an investigation.

13. 0:16:10

    They come in looking. But the franchise guys don't have any of that. And, uh, it's really puts, uh, the used car guys kind of in a bad light sometimes. Um, they should be all under the same umbrella, should be managed the same. They, uh, it's all, we're all selling vehicles. Uh, uh, franchise guys, if they're only selling franchise cars, fine to be a franchise dealer, but you have a used car dealer or used car, um, division Why are they not held to the same standard as a used car, solely used car, um, dealer is?

14. 0:16:47

    Um, it's very confusing when you go and try to... Like, I went through it of why am I having to give up my used car dealer's license. I've maintained two to make sure I was compliant, and, uh, you, you can't get... It's basically, "Here's what you're gonna do," and no response. "Turn your, your tags in." It's, it was pretty, uh, uh, unprofessional in my mind. So that's one of the things I think the state could do by merging those together would streamline, uh, the process and put it all under one umbrella.

15. 0:17:19

    You wouldn't have to have multiple license plates. You'd just have automotive dealer license plate instead of one's a franchise, one's a used car. You just have one. Uh, have one division that's used to enforcing the, the rules, and, uh, that's like Secretary of State. I'm not sure why the Department of Revenue handles franchise. It's kind of out of their wheelhouse more than, uh, Secretary of State, 'cause Secretary of State has the inspectors out doing the onsite inspections. The, uh, the next side of it where state of Georgia is missing out on a lot of revenue is there's no law that allow, that, uh, restricts people from selling vehicles for profit.

16. 0:18:03

    Uh, you can sell all your vehicles you want as long as you're not making money. Once you for profit, then you, uh, uh, legally you're supposed to have a dealer's license. And I think upstairs right now they're meeting, which I'm gonna go to here in a minute. They're trying to put in some restrictions that you have to sell five or more, because they have hundreds of, or thousands of dealers that only sell a few a year. Um, they're, I think they're gonna make some changes on that. But right now f- there's people in Georgia, there's one particular guy out in Loganville, Georgia, since I've had my dealership, he's been selling vehicles and parts without a dealer's license or a parts license, uh, since 2010 probably.

17. 0:18:48

    Selling hundreds of vehicles, no dealer's license. I've called everybody and their brother. Uh, the association, um, will write him a letter, but there's no enforcement. There's no law that says he has to have it. Uh, the only law that restricts this guy is, uh, zoning. So for some reason the zoning just can't get him shut down. He's got vehicles laying out all over his property. Um, I've had people, churches come in from Texas to buy something, and what he represented wasn't there, and they didn't have the money to get back home except for gas money to drive a bus that they were gonna take back.

18. 0:19:25

    He is very, a lot of fraud going on, not just with him, but with a lot, uh, entities like that. Where the state's really missing out on that is he's not paying title ad valorem tax when he sells the vehicles. He's, the, if the person, uh, that he sells it to is in Georgia, yes, they'll pay title ad valorem tax. Um, but he, um, as a non-dealer, he should be paying TAVT on everything that he buys that he resells. He's just, as we call it, curbstoning.

19. 0:19:57

    And one of the reasons he's allowed to do that is because he buys vehicles from one auction company that's called, uh, GovDeals, which a lot of Georgia surplus equipment goes through GovDeals. And, uh, the, uh, um, entities that are selling these, uh, vehicles on GovDeals, uh, a county, city, state are not signing the titles over. All they do is, well, they sign them over, but they don't transfer firm into the buyer's name, which is state law.

20. 0:20:31

    It's $100 fine if you accept a, a open title, and it's $100 fine if you pass a open title, and state of Georgia is the most guilty of them of not transferring title. There's not a law that needs to be passed. Um, there just needs to be a memo says, "Do your job," basically. And where the state's missing out so much on that is they're selling, let's say they're selling a, a pickup truck. Somebody buys it on GovDeals in Georgia. They sell it to another guy, and he decides to sell it to another guy.

21. 0:21:04

    It never gets charged to TAVT until the final person, and they're not dealers. If you're a dealer, fine. But there's a lot of equipment that goes through there. When I did my last calculation, it was around a million three that I figured, uh, Georgia's missing out on TAVT because of people buying individually and reselling, um, equipment. I think, uh, Georgia sells, I didn't bring my notes, but probably 3,000, 4,000 vehicles through GovDeals every year. And you just think a percentage of those are getting sold and then resold without someone that has a dealer license collecting TAVT.

22. 0:21:39

    And all it is is just the, the city or county needs to, uh, do their job. I bought 26 off that, off a Georgia DOT auction, and n- none of them were transferred correctly. All they did is sign over their name, and I had open titles. Yeah, I'm a dealer, so it was no big deal. My competitor, the guy that's out there curbstoning vehicles out in Lawrenceville, near Loganville, he bought just as many, and he didn't re- r- went and resold them. No big deal. So there's a lot of things that we don't need laws passed, just have people do their job.

23. 0:22:14

    And, um, then also w- we moved from, uh, Lake City down by Forest Park about five years ago up to Clarksville, our business. And, uh, if anybody's ever started a business or changed address with a business in Georgia, it's, it's, uh, it's painful to change all that information. There should be one database that you go in and say- Here's my new information, and then it filters through the state system.

24. 0:22:48

    I, I, I, I searched for two months trying to figure out how to change one of my Department of Revenue, because they will not take your phone call. There's a lot of those entities that you only can email them. And I finally decided, "Let me try calling," and I called this one particular entity, and they said, "Oh, no. We're not online. You have to call us." Well, everybody else, you have to do it online, but that one part of Department of Revenue, "And I have to give you a special passcode to be able to get in." Well, it doesn't say anywhere on their website.

25. 0:23:21

    If I would've picked up the phone finally... I never tried calling, 'cause I didn't like being on hold for 30, 40 minutes a day. I don't have time for that. I just assumed it should go on there. So it would be nice if you do any kind of change with your state, um, certifications, uh, filings, we got the technology nowadays. You just ask, uh, ChatGPT, it'll write you a program probably, and it won't cost you anything. So that's so- I think something that'll help small business. And, uh, then last, um, I bid on a lot of contracts in, in Georgia.

26. 0:23:58

    DOS has done a great job of now consolidating a lot of purchasing through them, where it's a p- called a cooperative procurement, where they, um...

27. 0:24:12

    Most bidders, if you're within a, a percentage, a certain percentage of each other, you're gonna get awarded. And it gives the, the final end user a, uh, opportunity to purchase from somebody that has, uh, uh, maybe a product they like or a different type of service, things like that. But what's happened in the, since COVID is, um, our pricing has escalated tremendously in my industry, and a lot of dealers have taken advantage of it. And right now, state entities, instead of saying, "Hey, we're gonna buy, we're all gonna buy this 15-passenger vehicle.

28. 0:24:50

    Let's get three or four quotes. Well, let's get a quote from everybody that's on contract," they just go to one that they have a relationship with. And I'm dealing with a entity right now that, uh, in the past three years has bought 100, uh, almost 200 units a year. My price is $16,800 each less. Less. And they are still purchasing off that c- off... So it was, uh, about $3.2 million last year they overspent for the same vehicle, and I actually have a better product.

29. 0:25:28

    And I'm not just saying that 'cause I sell it. I am selling a substantial better product. But they chose to, because of relationship instead of buying, and their claim was that, um, uh, they had better lead time, which was two months better lead time, and they spent $16,800 per unit. Last year, they bought 194 units at a escalated price. And so, and you can't even get a meeting with them, is the hardest part. "Hey, I want to show you my product." They're gonna buy...

30. 0:25:59

    Basically, we're buying from who we want to, and we're gonna overspend by three to four million dollars a year in the past three years of state funds, federal funds, and, uh, not even giving other people opportunities. They'll call and say, "Hey, give us your price." There's no negotiation. There's no really, um... Uh, it came down to when we met with them, they had a better delivery. So you're gonna spend 16 grand more a vehicle 'cause of two months. Uh, I think the state should go in on any purchasing, I don't care if it's paper, vehicles, uh, toiletries, mandate that they get at least three quotes if, even if it's off DOS contract.

31. 0:26:40

    Who's got the best price? Do your due diligence. Spend our money in, in a correct manner. And, uh, uh, it's not happening. And there's a lot of entities that are overpaying where they could get a, a less expensive equal to product, and, uh, uh, they're not being good stewards of our dollar at all. And there's a lot of that going on. DOS has done a great job so that, uh, agencies do not have to go out to bid. They can just go and purchase off their contract.

32. 0:27:11

    But it has allowed for, uh, uh, a lot of over- expenditures where, uh... And a lot of them will be like, "Well, it doesn't matter. We get 80% from federal government, 10% is local funding, and 10% is state, only costing us, uh, really locally 20%, so what's the difference?" Well, it's, it adds up over time. So that's, uh, all my, all the suggestions I have, and I really appreciate y'all taking the time to, to listen to us, um, rattle on up here.

33. 0:27:43

    Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that presentation.

34. 0:27:46

    Sure.

35. 0:27:46

    Uh, Hunter, we'll be able to talk further, uh, uh, about some of these issues with Mr. Engelmann's issues, if that's okay.

36. 0:27:54

    Sure.

37. 0:27:54

    Okay.

38. 0:27:55

    Any, any questions before?

39. 0:27:56

    Do y'all have any questions? No. No? Bill? Awesome. Oh, we're good. Thank you.

40. 0:28:03

    Thank you.

41. 0:28:03

    Thank you very much.

42. 0:28:03

    And it, it warms my heart seeing active and engaged members, 'cause he's going right now to the Transportation Committee, um, while he's down there, taking advantage of it. There are a few things that, uh, I want you to look at that are, kinda have a bit of a relationship to what he was talking about. HB863, the Small Business Set-Aside Act, it's a bipartisan bill that, um, mandates agencies consider s- using s- 20% of their, um, procurements on small business. So-

43. 0:28:34

    8863?

44. 0:28:34

    Yes, sir. Uh, and there's one, I'm tr- I was trying to find it. Uh, it passed last year in the House and is sitting in the Senate by Representative, uh, Matt Reeves. It, uh, deals with quality-based, uh, pro- ... examination of, of, um, of contracts, and that could be some language you could work into that, uh, Mr. Engelmann was talking about.

45. 0:28:56

    And what was Matt Reeves's... Do you, do you know?

46. 0:28:58

    I'm trying to find out. If, once I f- find it, I'll let you guys know.

47. 0:29:01

    Okay. Super.

48. 0:29:06

    We ready to move on to the-

49. 0:29:07

    Yes, sir. Come on.

50. 0:29:10

    I want to introduce you to Michael Walker. He's the, uh, chairman of our Leadership Council, which is an advisory board for NFIB Georgia.

51. 0:29:19

    Mr. Walker.

52. 0:29:21

    Good morning.

53. 0:29:21

    Good morning.

54. 0:29:32

    It's a pleasure to be here with you this morning. I thank you for the opportunity to come and speak with you. As Horner says, I'm chair of, uh, the Leadership Council for NFIB here in the state of Georgia. In addition to that, I'm president elect of the National Association of Benefit and Insurance Professionals, um, with operations out of Washington, D.C. It's a 12,000-member organization of agents and brokers that, uh, advocate on behalf of consumers of healthcare and distribute that.

55. 0:30:07

    In addition to that, I serve at the pleasure of Governor Brian Kemp to the Board of Georgia Public Health. I'm here this morning to speak in favor of House Bill 1110. That is known as the Georgia Small Business Healthcare Affordability Act, and also is known as the ICRA bill, which is the Individual Coverage Health Reimbursement Arrangement.

56. 0:30:41

    Now, what's interesting about both of these is that it kind of correlates with a piece of legislation in a bill that President Trump has introduced, which is called the CHOICE Act. It's the Custom Health Option and Individual Care Expense. Now, we all are very much aware, unfortunately, of the rising costs of healthcare, and with that brings about exorbitant costs of premiums.

57. 0:31:12

    This year, for annual enrollment, there's a, there was a lot of chaos because of the expiration of the credits for what's affectionately known as Obamacare, but the ACA, uh, Affordable Care Act. Because of those expiration of credits, it caused healthcare premiums to rise extraordinarily, and there are a lot of people that have not been able to continue their healthcare. I'd just like to give you a little facts, a few facts about this.

58. 0:31:45

    Uh, first of all, the ICRA bill, it was introduced by President Trump in 2019 and made available in 2020. Then, um, President Biden continued that bill and the process of that because of the fact that during COVID, there were a lot of small businesses that closed. There were a lot of people that lost their healthcare. As a matter of fact, over the last five years, premiums for families have climbed 26%, matching trends in inflation and wage growth.

59. 0:32:29

    The rising costs are driven by expensive ex- prescription drugs, chronic health issues, increased use of medical services, and rising hospital prices. Kaiser Family Foundation did a study and found that the average of $6,000 for an individual employee and $14,000 for a family in 2019. However, they were able to f- determine that in 2025, that average for an individual had increased to 8,952, and a family from 14,000 to 25,000.

60. 0:33:13

    Also, it says that during the COVID time, it's estimated that between two million and three million people may have lost their employee-based coverage between March and September during that time period. The unfortunate part about that is that those people turned to Medicaid. That's the only place they could go, or they went uninsured. Now, I'm sure you all are probably well aware that President Reagan, he signed a bill back in the mid-'80s, which is primarily the Emergency Care Act, which says that if anybody is here in the US and they need medical attention in an urgent manner, they get to go to the emergency room.

61. 0:34:03

    The emergency room has to treat them because hospitals and clinics are federal contractors with the federal government, and it's because of that law that they have to be treated. Well, because of everybody losing their healthcare insurance and it's becoming unaffordable, we have a situation on our hands where there are people that are going without insurance, and whenever they have an issue, they go straight to the emergency room.

62. 0:34:33

    And I know we all are well aware of the immigration issue, and I know that we're making steps to take care of that, but they are covered under that Emergency Act. There were a lot of conversation that one party was trying to insure illegal aliens. Well, that's a little bit misleading because of the Emergency Care Act that was signed by President Reagan. It covers people that are here in this country, even as immigrants. And so you know more than likely they don't have insurance either, so they're going straight to the emergency room.

63. 0:35:10

    So I say all this to say that we do have a crisis on our hand, but here in Georgia, you know, I think it's 10 years straight we've been known as the best place to do business, and that's a very proud and distinguished acount- accomplishment, and we should be proud of it. On the other hand, though, there are small businesses here in Georgia that do not do as well. And it was funny, before I came up to speak, I was looking at your, uh, monitor up there and it talked about small business, the backbone of the economy.

64. 0:35:48

    We've all heard that before, and I agree with that. Small businesses employ more people than anybody else combined. But unfortunately, a lot of laws, regulations do not enhance small businesses. It breaks the back of small businesses. And here we are right now where you have a lot of small businesses in Georgia, people that are member of our association and what have you, that want to provide healthcare for their employees, but they can't afford to because of the rising cost of it.

65. 0:36:28

    This bill, which is called the ICRA bill, but it's the Georgia Small Business Healthcare Affordability Act, what it's asking is for legislation to be passed to allow small businesses with 50 or fewer employees, their employer be allowed to get a tax credit of $600 a year for contributing up to that amount to individuals that work with him, whether they are full-time employees or part-time employees or seasonal workers, 'cause they are part of it as well.

66. 0:37:05

    You know the one thing about healthcare, it's not a partisan issue. It's bipartisan. We all need healthcare, and at some point or another. But if we don't start to get ahead of the problem while we can with those of us that are in leadership, then those that are not in leadership, those that do not have a voice, do not have a platform, those that are not Michael Walker that can come down and talk to you, that's gonna be a problem and it's gonna continue to spiral, and it's gonna cost us more in the long run.

67. 0:37:40

    Sometimes, you know, as a child, they, they tell you to go ahead and take care of this issue now or spend a lot more money on it in the future. I think that's where we are. If you think about the tax credit, and I've heard people say that, "Why should we give an incentive or a leg up to somebody that's not doing the right thing?" Well, how do we know that they weren't trying to do the right thing or they didn't have a desire to do the right thing? We don't know the intent of that small business owner and why he hasn't. But what we do know, that if we were to support this bill, that would be an incentive for him to work and hopefully get some of his people some access to healthcare.

68. 0:38:21

    Because if we can do preventative healthcare, that'll go a long way in solving the problem and stop people going to the emergency room, which is clogging up and tying up resources for people that really need emergency care at that time. The other part, when you look at the dollars, $600 per employee on a annual basis is $50 a month. That's all we asking to help solve this issue.

69. 0:38:52

    Um, NFIB is dedicated to doing that. I've been working with, um, a lot of carriers around the state of Georgia. They're all in favor it. What it does is it helps an employer budget. It helps them control expense because the current situation now is, I know every year the carriers have to file in order to up- get approval for premiums.

70. 0:39:27

    And I understand that they are regulated. They have a, have a certain amount of reserves in order to pay claims. We understand that. But at the same time, because of the cost and the rising cost comes from providers. How many times you been to a hospital and you get a aspirin for $100? That's where a lot of the cost is. But they're having to try to keep up with that, but then they're squeezing out the little guy that can't afford 35% increase.

71. 0:39:59

    There are people that were on Georgia Access and it was able to be manageable and give them healthcare, but when the tax credits expired, it went from somewhere like, say, somebody may be paying $50 or so much to maybe $300 or $400. And so now you have people going without medication, without healthcare because they're having to make a choice between food or healthcare. So we're just trying to get to a point where we can kind of start to fix this problem.

72. 0:40:36

    And I know it's a big problem, and that old saying of how do you eat a elephant one bite at a time, this is just a bite. But it would be helpful and it could go a long way. So I'm asking you guys to look favorable at that piece of legislation. I'm open to questions.

73. 0:40:58

    familiar with the 81 on that bill. I'm sure we're gonna hear it in the Insurance Committee.

74. 0:41:07

    Oh, really?

75. 0:41:07

    So, um, it's actually being heard today at 1:30 in the subcommittee on Ways and Means, 'cause it, it's a credit. Um, you've got two of the subcommittee chairs signed on to that bill. Um, the chairman of the Insurance Study Committee last year, again, Representative Reeves, is on the, signed on to that bill. Uh, we think of it as a worker enticement program, essentially. It's a on-ramp for those small businesses that are, they just need to get over the hump. There's that gap between the n- not covered small businesses and those that are, uh, being able to pay individually or through a group plan.

76. 0:41:44

    Um, it's, it's just that small incentive. I, let's say I own a hardware store, right? I want to hire a middle manager to hopefully be able to expand my business, grow, and then eventually get into a, a group plan or a, a self-insured plan, but I just, I can't yet because I need that worker. If I can't offer that benefit, that worker might go to the Home Depot, w- who we love, don't get me wrong, but it's, a lot of people want to be part of a, uh, a local business and support locally.

77. 0:42:15

    So th- that is our thought, um, a- and our hope, that that credit could incentivize it. "Okay, now it m- finally makes financial sense for me to offer this benefit." And it's less onerous because it is, uh, uh, in the form of an ICHRA. I pay the employee, and the employee goes and, and shops. So, um, they have, then they have plenty of options at their disposal, much less than just something that a, a business can offer that's might not be as good. But then again, there's also stopgaps in the bill to say you can't offer less than y- what you already offer.

78. 0:42:50

    So it, it, it, it makes it so a business can't be like, "Okay, this is way better. I'm gonna offer, you know, worse benefits." So.

79. 0:42:59

    Well, basically, what he's saying is, if you're already on a plan that offers minimal essential coverage, which is by law what has to be done, even with Georgia Access or what have you. So if you have a plan like that, and it is basically about the same, you can't leave and go over here and do a ICHRA, because you won't get the credits for it. So there are some little checks and balances in there to keep people from just going totally the other way. Um, one other thing that, um, one of the reasons why the number of 50 is selected, and I know there some people say, "Well, we should do 10 or fewer," and all of like that, and I understand that, but I would caution them to think about this.

80. 0:43:44

    If you were to set it at 10, and a lot of small businesses have part-time employees. They also have seasonal employees. So you say if a small business, and this is just an example, if they have 10 employees and have 10 part-time employees, the calculations from the government is based on full-time equivalent of employees. So then that would take a calculation of those 10 employees that are part-timers and calculate how many hours combined they work on a given month, and then divide that by the hours of a, a full-time employee, and it would come in at about half of that.

81. 0:44:27

    So then instead of 10 employees, they now have 15 employees. That's the way the calculations work. So if you cut it off at something really small like that, then you could be excluding people that it's meant to help, such as part-time employees and seasonal employees. So that's why the number of 50 is set there. And just as a little bit more background, uh, in the Medicare, and this just kinda shows some alignment, when a small business has Medicare employees that are turning Medicare-eligible, if it's 20 or fewer, they sign up for Medicare, and Medicare becomes the primary, and the group benefit plan that they were on is secondary.

82. 0:45:09

    Whereas if it's above 20, then it's the opposite. So I'm just using that as an example that between 50 and 20, that's a really sweet spot, because you allow for other nuances and things to pick up. That's all.

83. 0:45:25

    Yeah, obviously, we want more people insured, because right now they're either uninsured or on a- ACA, like you said, individual coverages. So that's just driving up hospital costs in the first place. So we want people covered in general.

84. 0:45:40

    Yeah. And, and the, you know, the way insurance works is that the more people that are in it, the more the cost will go down. It goes up because we're not spreading the cost around. And so if we could get more people, and a lot of the people are young and healthy and feel like they don't need insurance, but when they really need it, they really need it because it's because of accidents or something else, so to speak, you know? So if we can get some access to coverage and get people in the mindset of, "This is like maintenance.

85. 0:46:13

    This is for my health. This will help me to become a better person," what have you, more successful. If we could get them in that mindset and they get used to that, as they grow up, we can continue to fix the problem. Thank you, guys.

86. 0:46:29

    Yeah, we appreciate it. I've, I've noticed, uh, excuse me, yeah, at, at our local hospital that, uh, a lot of times the, the patients do use the emergency room as just a, a, a, in doctor's office visit. And we're struggling, uh, locally to maintain ambulance service in the community-

87. 0:46:51

    Mm-hmm

88. 0:46:51

    ... um, because of it being abused by different individuals. Uh, we've actually had to let everybody know, uh, people were calling to get an ambulance to the hospital because they thought that they would avoid the lines in the emergency room. And so they were unnecessarily using the ambulance service, and, uh, now the whole community has to pay over a million dollars a year, and we're talking about a small community, to subsidize the ambulance service just to come to our community, and that's because of the abuse.

89. 0:47:30

    Uh, it's sad, but it's true.

90. 0:47:32

    You're absolutely right. The other part about that is that if someone gets into an ambulance, say, that's owned or operated by your hospital, then that person is now a patient-

91. 0:47:44

    Mm-hmm

92. 0:47:44

    ... of your hospital because they are now on your property.

93. 0:47:48

    Mm-hmm.

94. 0:47:48

    Or, and once they drive into there, you can't turn them away-

95. 0:47:51

    Mm

96. 0:47:51

    ... unless you treat them through-

97. 0:47:53

    Mm-hmm

98. 0:47:53

    ... the emergency room, and that's part of that, that same law.

99. 0:47:56

    That's true.

100. 0:47:58

     Well, Mr. Walker, again, thank you very much for your presentation. Hunter, we'll get together, you know, afterwards, either with members of the committee, uh, a- and, uh, speak further on this.

101. 0:48:11

     Right.

102. 0:48:11

     We'll see what goes, what's going on. I'm glad that Steve, Chairman Tolliver, knows what's going on.

103. 0:48:16

     Barely. We got, we got three presenters in 17 minutes.

104. 0:48:20

     Okay. I'm sorry. We gotta get going. Thank you.

105. 0:48:22

     Thank you.

106. 0:48:23

     All right. Um-

107. 0:48:24

     I, uh, if, if I may, Mr. Chairman.

108. 0:48:27

     Sure.

109. 0:48:27

     We've got another member that I'm really excited about. It's her first time presenting in committee, um, Mary Jo?

110. 0:48:34

     Yeah.

111. 0:48:34

     All right. I'm gonna s- get her this way.

112. 0:48:39

     It always brings me great joy when we have members, um, want to take an active and, uh, direct approach into... Here. Come around here.

113. 0:48:48

     Sorry.

114. 0:48:51

     And take advantage of their membership and what it all has to offer. And we'll invite folks to come down and-

115. 0:48:58

     Mm-hmm

116. 0:48:58

     ... like I mentioned, it, it's tough to get away for 30 minutes of, for a lunch-

117. 0:49:02

     Yeah

118. 0:49:02

     ... much less coming down to Atlanta. So thank you, Mary Jo, for coming and joining us today.

119. 0:49:06

     All right. Thank you, excuse me, to everyone for your time and attention this morning. I very much appreciate being here. Um, I, segue ... Not segueing. Uh, a- another comment about health insurance. I have a couple of examples. Um, back in 2013, and, and the healthcare issues have been looming for a long time. So believe it or not, my husband and I were laid off one day apart in February of 2013. So we decided to take our future a little bit into our own hands, and that we were going to open up a small business.

120. 0:49:45

     Um, but one of us had to have a corporate job because we had to have healthcare. So even back to 2013, we couldn't afford the premiums of a couple thousand dollars a year for the kind of coverage that we were used to. Um, right now I have, I'm a GC. I'm a designer first, a GC by necessity, and I do, um, remodeling, mostly interior. Um, and I have a lot, I work with a lot of contractors.

121. 0:50:16

     So when I say contractors, I'm talking, uh, plumbers, elect- electricians, tile setters, HVAC, et cetera. So all of these people need to rely on that spouse that can get a job in the corporate environment so that they can get decent healthcare, or they're gonna go uninsured, like Mr. Walker said, um, and, and kind of take the risk. I have one tile setter who has a family, and his son was just, um, diagnosed with sciatica in high school.

122. 0:50:50

     And he's got a future of very bad, they didn't catch it in time, um, very bad medical issues. And he's, um, only on catastrophic, which is not covered. So, um, so the healthcare crisis is something that probably can't be fixed by the State of Georgia, but I think that that, um, proposal for the legislation would be a great help to a lot of small businesses, um, including myself. So, um, the second thing I wanted to mention was the permitting process.

123. 0:51:22

     So because I do, um, mostly interior construction, I deal with permits. And, um, home improvement, it ha- really has been up since COVID, since the onset of COVID, and we continue to build less and less homes. And so the construction is, um, is up, thankfully for me. Most of what I'm going to speak about is probably pertains more to the bigger counties, Fulton, Gwinnett, Cobb, DeKalb, um, probably Chatham, and, you know, maybe down in Macon, um, area.

124. 0:51:55

     So, but basically the, the first issue is that, um, permitting is a disincentive to homeowners because they feel, um, that if they get a permit, the property taxes will go up. So, um, as an example, I'm about ready to do, hopefully, um, about a $250,000 dr- dollar job on a house that is going to, um, redo their, uh, uh, finish out their entire basement.

125. 0:52:27

     Um, and he doesn't want a permit because of that. So we're disincentivizing that. But now if you contrast that with me as a designer that could take a house, could paint the outside, do some landscaping, do drapes on the inside, paint it, tile, rugs, you know, I'm also going to improve that house by, you know, $100,000, $150,000 in terms of the, um, resale value, but yet that's not, um, going to touch the homeowner's property taxes. So I just think that, um, there's a lot of misconceptions out there.

126. 0:53:01

     It's a very difficult process, which I'll talk about next. And I think that, um, we really need to kind of evaluate the whole purpose of, um, what we're doing with the permitting process and if there are ways to make it, um, far more easier, um, for homeowners. Because I, I'm assuming that, um, I'm gonna make this assumption that the purpose of the permitting process is to help the homeowner get, um, quality work done to code so that they're not gonna have issues down the road when, if and when they do sell the house or if they have other structural problems.

127. 0:53:39

     Um, first off, I would say that there are a lot of people operating out there, I'm sure you know this, that are not, um- Uh, GCs, um, and licensed GCs. So, um, and, and there's no really enforcement, no stopping it. Um, if they... I had a, um, contractor who was helping a customer and he, um, the neighbor called, reported him, and they shut down the work. But I mean, no offense to him, but nothing ever happened to him that he was not licensed.

128. 0:54:15

     The only thing was is we went and pulled a permit, and we got the situation remedied. Um,

129. 0:54:25

     what needs to be permitted should be reevaluated in my estimation. If I call the City of Atlanta, they're gonna tell me if I replace my oven, I need to permit that. Is that really realistic? Um, people, you know... So I think that the level of what the people in the government want to have permitted versus what really happens in reality is, um, dramatically different. The entire permit process is differ- difficult to understand.

130. 0:54:58

     I've pulled permits in Johns Creek, um, Brookhaven, uh, Dunwoody, Sandy Springs, and the City of Atlanta. Uh, Sandy Springs is awesome. They have privatized it, and they've made it pretty simple. I can walk in and get it done pretty, pretty simply. Um, the City of Atlanta, if you call, um, you're gonna have people tell you that, "Oh, the information is on the website." Where on the website?

131. 0:55:29

     Um, it's extremely difficult to, um, get it done. Um, it's so difficult that, um, for big jobs I have to hire an expediter. So we have people that can make $1,500 or $2,000. Um, my expediter lives in Florida, out of state, and she makes her whole, um, uh, income is on expediting permits 'cause she knows the system and she knows who to call.

132. 0:56:00

     To me, um, that's a little bit of pay to play. I think the system should be easy so that if a homeowner wants to do it, the homeowner can, or if a lowly GC like myself can do it, that it should be pretty simple and I don't have to spend two weeks on the phone going back and forth with different people to say, "What is the next step? Where on the website is it? Who do I call? When do I do my rough-in inspect- inspection?" Um, the language is also difficult. Um, for example, when I file a permit, it's listed as a collection.

133. 0:56:33

     What is a collection? I don't know. Um,

134. 0:56:40

     I d- I recommend differentiating new construction from re- um, from remodeling and interior construction. So right now, if I'm building a home or putting on an addition, or if I'm outfitting a basement, it's all lumped together. So I think that that would help kind of separate it because it's far more complicated when you're, um, going from the ground up. Um,

135. 0:57:08

     oh, here's the other thing. Um, as a GC, when I pull a permit, my plumber, my electrician, my HVAC guy, they all need to pull their own separate, um, permits, but I cannot look online to see if they've done the rough-in, to see if they've done the final inspection. I don't really understand why. It seems like it should be under the umbrella of the GC. Um, as an example, last week I had a final inspection and he told me, he said, "Well, your electrician never called in a final." And I'm like, "Well, why didn't I know that?

136. 0:57:45

     Why didn't you call me before you did your final inspection that I couldn't pass?" I mean, this is just, like, baby steps, and it is a, a waste of our time. I, I just, I hate to say waste, but it is because you're sitting and you're waiting for an inspector, inspector, and you're gonna find out new information that should've been told to you online so I can remedy it. So I just, I feel like this, you know, w- we actually call it an aggravation tax because it's a tax on our money and it's a tax on our time.

137. 0:58:21

     So I, I highly recommend, um, maybe getting some end users together that would happily... I'd be happy. I don't work full-time 'cause I'm getting old, but I'd be happy to volunteer if you could get some end users together and say, "Let's streamline this. Let's make it easy. Let's, um, you know, put it, bundle it all together so that we could fix this process." And probably, I, I don't mean this as a negative, but probably, um, cut some payroll that, uh, is used to pushing paper.

138. 0:58:57

     Um, no offense to anybody. They're very helpful and kind, but, um, I just think it's an opportunity to, uh, for everyone, and probably an opportunity for homeowners to get better quality. Um-

139. 0:59:09

     Oh, we've got some legislation dealing with permitting now-

140. 0:59:13

     Okay

141. 0:59:13

     ... under house three. I don't know if it to- touches your particular subject, uh, but we're looking at it as we speak. And-

142. 0:59:20

     Okay

143. 0:59:21

     ... in the interest of time, um, uh, do we, is it M- Ms. Williams?

144. 0:59:26

     So, um, eh, I'm saddened by it, but, uh, i- it's probably good for, for timing and for Ms. Frazier coming up. But, uh, May was not ma- able to make it-

145. 0:59:35

     That's fine. That's fine

146. 0:59:37

     ... today. Uh, but her, her plight is similar to Ms. Alton's here and, uh, Mr. Engelman's from earlier, is the permitting and licensing process, um- I'm hearing more and more about it, how difficult it is to, one, get a permit, and two, get a license, especially in, in Atlanta. So if there's something we could look at, a streamlined process across the board, but the counties and localities are still able to be in control of it, uh, would be beneficial for us. But again, thank you for your time. It's always a pleasure to be here.

147. 1:00:08

     Uh, you guys have my number. Happy to, to chat anytime. I'm down here every day during session, so.

148. 1:00:14

     We'll talk further. Need your support on 812.

149. 1:00:17

     Can we have another speaker?

150. 1:00:18

     Yes, we do. We got it. Yes sir.

151. 1:00:20

     So, no, go ahead. Go ahead and get... I'm just gonna get him coming up and I'm gonna ask him something.

152. 1:00:25

     Okay.

153. 1:00:26

     Uh, the, uh... I don't know how we can, uh, tell Atlanta or a city or a county how they can regulate, but I'm, I'm willing to listen on- offline.

154. 1:00:38

     Sure. Absolutely.

155. 1:00:39

     I, I, I don't, I don't, I don't, you know, think it a bad, a bad area to be in, not allow them to have regulations like they see fit for their county.

156. 1:00:49

     Sure, sure. But if, but if it's, it's under the purview-

157. 1:00:52

     I'm, I'm not looking to have-

158. 1:00:52

     ... of the state in terms of what is up to code and whatnot, there could be a process where all of that is streamlined. And then, um, a- again, there could be a singular database, like she was, she was mentioning it. But it might come down to budget, which is, again, out of my purview.

159. 1:01:08

     Well, we need to move on because, Ms. Frazier, you're up. And Hunter, we can talk later. I'm sorry. It's gone overboard. We're not gonna take any questions at this time. We'll talk offline after the meeting is over. So come on. There we go. Thank you.

160. 1:01:33

     Well, thank you so much, Chairman, Vice Chairman, and actually Vice Chair isn't here today, and members of the committee. Good morning.

161. 1:01:40

     Morning.

162. 1:01:41

     And so in the interest of time, I may not use the slides, but we'll have them up. Uh, my name is Montina Young Frazier, and I am an executive board member with the Henry County Chamber of Commerce, where I'm honored to serve, and I'm also the chairwoman for the tourism board. And I do wanna acknowledge our president and CEO, Joe Henning, is also here today. And, uh, we have our advocacy day at the Capitol. I'm also joined by Judy McMurtrey, who is a consultant with our chamber, which we'll talk a little bit about some of our programs.

163. 1:02:14

     And I just wanna thank you for your leadership and for your continued commitment to Georgia's small business community. Henry County is my home and home to over 900 members. These are Georgia families, founders, job creators, and taxpayers. Our chamber has moved beyond traditional networking to build structured data-driven systems and programs that help our entrepreneurs build, scale, and grow right here in Georgia.

164. 1:02:45

     We were the number one chamber in 2022, and we had a membership director who was number one in the country in 2025. So we're proud of that as well. So I wanted to share some of our strategy here and how it aligned, but what I'll do is highlight, um, just quickly some of our impact metrics, and then I'll let Judy share more about our chamber. Uh, but we've been able to have a 93% retention rate, uh, over 516.2 million in visitor spending. We're number 10 in the state in Henry County, even with all our traffic.

165. 1:03:18

     $130,000 direct business investment, um, from our programs and support of 31,000 solopreneurs with our programming, which we're proud of. And we have had government contract growth with our small bus- business members, uh, mental wellness leadership toolkit in our Flex program that supports our youth entrepreneurs. So I'm just gonna pass it along, again, in the interest of time, to Judy McMurtrey to talk a little bit more about our leadership and mentorship programs.

166. 1:03:46

     Yes. And probably as you know, um... Well, I'm sorry. My name's Judy McMurtrey. Uh, my company is JM Excel Consultant. And I am a consultant for the chamber as well as for, um, small businesses. I focus on leadership development and training. My passion is because, as you may know, I wanna give you a little stat that's gonna make you a little nervous. By 2030, we have 45 to 55% of boomers are eligible for retirement, and Gen Z has the highest anxiety amongst the generations.

167. 1:04:24

     So we're walking out the door as far as a boomer generation without transferring knowledge over. So I just want you to understand that statistic as we look at small businesses. 87% of small business, uh, confidence within our United States citizens have confidence more in small business than they do in any other entity. So you'll know that we are extremely important, but we also have to look at the fact that we need more support, and we need you to understand how can we come alongside.

168. 1:04:58

     The chamber I love because Joe, as, um, Montina mentioned, has changed the focus to a focus on small businesses because we want to make sure our community stays strong, and we drive e- economic, uh, impact to our communities so that we don't lose businesses. And so with that said, we have, um, changed over to have, like, a core collective group 'cause collaboration is key, and it's extremely important to collaborate as chamber members.

169. 1:05:31

     So we do a core collaborative group. Last year, we did a mentorship program that we partner with larger businesses and brought in small businesses to work collectively together, and we had quite a bit of success with that as well. So we have quite a few initiatives. It's only thing I'm mentioning to you as far as the chamber, that we can work alongside the government to help you out. 'Cause we do this work every day, so we know how to improve and how to, you know, like, take that one bite at a time from the elephant.

170. 1:06:03

     And so if we partner more together- The chamber and the government and larger corporations, we will be able to weather the storm because it's 10 large industries that will be impacted, and they talked about the medical industry, that will be heavily impacted by 2030. Are we really paying attention to that? Because that's, like, less than four years away. What are we doing to get ahead of that? That's all I have to say.

171. 1:06:30

     And again, just, uh, just highlighting with some of the interests, we do have a Blue Ocean Advantage that we've created at, um, our chamber. And again, we like to do a lot to empower our solopreneurs or our smaller entrepreneurs. Our membership is 900 members strong. Um, we have recruitment and confidence. Again, we have the number one new membership coordinator in the entire country in 2025. We also have business stability. And again, tourism as our engine, we're a top 10 in the state. Uh, we also do tourism grants for our small businesses there to increase for our spending there for our businesses.

172. 1:07:07

     And again, the direct invest- investment I shared earlier. Um, and what Judy talked about was our mentorship delivering ROI. We have billion-dollar businesses in Henry County, one of which we're proud of, woman-owned, Bennett, who is supportive of our, uh, chamber, also in the leadership. And then, again, government contracting, uh, HIPAA compliance with this mentor, uh, that was able to increase her business. State Farm, we've had, um, this particular State Farm, let's see here, owner-

173. 1:07:36

     She's a owner

174. 1:07:37

     ... owner, and she expanded to state-

175. 1:07:39

     A year and a half ago.

176. 1:07:39

     Yes.

177. 1:07:40

     She is.

178. 1:07:40

     And then we've had, um, uh, again, members that were awarded Georgia Department of Education this Boost Grant, opened a new school site. And we have the Henry Hub, again, supporting our small businesses in the community. So with that, again, I just, um, want to sh- thank you all for, uh, the state environment. Again, DOS, I'm familiar with, the Georgia Procurement, the support there. I looked online yesterday. There were 631 opportunities available to our small businesses in the state. And the thing I say is, "They can't win if they don't bid." So we wanna make sure that our businesses have the fundamental foundation so that they can succeed.

179. 1:08:18

     And thank you for your time and for your partnership in keeping Georgia the best state in the nation to do business. And we believe excellence at the local level strengthens Georgia's competitiveness at the state and national level.

180. 1:08:31

     Also, we do partner with our county and city in Henry County. That's why we're strong.

181. 1:08:36

     Good.

182. 1:08:36

     So just trying to pass that on a little bit for you.

183. 1:08:39

     Well, thank you. Thank you for the presentation. You have a, a question, Chairman Todd?

184. 1:08:43

     Yes, sir.

185. 1:08:44

     What is the population of Hen- about the population of Henry County approximately?

186. 1:08:48

     Uh, probably about 289,000.

187. 1:08:51

     How much?

188. 1:08:51

     289,000.

189. 1:08:53

     W- wonder, wonder how that ranks in the state. In the top 10, sure?

190. 1:08:58

     Yeah, we're in the top 10.

191. 1:08:59

     We're probably in the top 10 in the state.

192. 1:09:00

     Yeah.

193. 1:09:00

     You know, we're the fastest, one of the fastest-growing counties, top five in the country.

194. 1:09:03

     Still, still, still see a lot of growth coming in.

195. 1:09:05

     Oh, absolutely. Yes, sir, we do.

196. 1:09:08

     Yeah. Thank-

197. 1:09:08

     That's working together, collaboration.

198. 1:09:10

     Mm-hmm.

199. 1:09:11

     Thank, thank you so much.

200. 1:09:12

     Thank you.

201. 1:09:16

     And we also, num, uh, Representative? Number 25? Yes,

202. 1:09:23

     sir.

203. 1:09:24

     My, my question is not to, uh, these ladies. It's actually a comment, uh, about the presentation on permitting. Uh, am I allowed to, to make that?

204. 1:09:34

     Mm-hmm.

205. 1:09:34

     Okay.

206. 1:09:37

     I have pulled permits for over 30 years as a licensed civil engineer. I'm concerned that if we water it down, it will be to the benefit of the contractors-

207. 1:09:52

     Mm-hmm

208. 1:09:52

     ... not the homeowners or the job owners, 'cause you're gonna get shabby contractors to do your job, do your work, and then people are going to pay, pay for nothing.

209. 1:10:08

     Mm-hmm.

210. 1:10:09

     I... If you do your designs well, that is the easiest thing to do, is pull a permit. I have done it for over 30 years. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

211. 1:10:20

     Thank you. Cool. All right. Well, good. Good. Thank you very much.

212. 1:10:26

     Thank you so much.

213. 1:10:26

     I appreciate you being here. Thank you for your presentation.

214. 1:10:29

     Yes, sir. Thank you.

215. 1:10:30

     It makes you wanna move to Henry County.

216. 1:10:33

     Hey, we have room.

217. 1:10:35

     Well, anyway, with that being said, meeting adjourned. Thank you.

218. 1:10:37

     Thank you.

219. 1:10:41

     My boot is in the way.