Comité Insurance and Labor del Senado, 19 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

424 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:20:27

   Here. Uh, thank you for being here. And, um, um, Senator Harbison, could I get you to bl- uh, pra- say the prayer for us, please, sir? You're number 14.

2. 0:20:39

   Thank you, sir.

3. 0:20:40

   Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

4. 0:20:41

   If you bow, Father God, we thank you for the blessings of the state to get it right once again. Thank you for giving us open minds to deliberate for the people of the State of Georgia in a justly, Godly way. These things we ask in Jesus' name. Amen.

5. 0:20:58

   Thank you very much. All right. We have, um, we're gonna see, uh, SB 230, uh, Senator Still. And then, uh, I have a bill, SB 324, and Senator K- Kirkpatrick will take over. And then SB 503 is gonna be next week because there are some people that need to be here that are not h- were not able to make it today. So, um, Senator Still, uh, we'll let you... You wanna do it from right there, sir?

6. 0:21:25

   Yes, sir.

7. 0:21:26

   And this should be fairly easy, I think.

8. 0:21:28

   Thank you, Chairman. Yes. Uh, we are working off LC 461447S.

9. 0:21:34

   You got the right one .

10. 0:21:35

    We do have the right one.

11. 0:21:36

    All right.

12. 0:21:36

    And it's so exciting to be able to work off the right one, you know? And you gotta shake off 11 months of cobwebs sometimes when you look at these bills. Um, page one, the same. The language change from our amended version from the 2025 legislative year changed, uh, rather than just h- not having any cap at all, we changed line 29 to, to not exceed 5,000, changed that to 25,000.

13. 0:22:12

    And then, um, as a, a very welcomed and appreciated addition, we added the amendment, um, the language that's in lines 33 through 38, which has to do with notification. And I believe that this satisfies the questions that were being asked in committee. Um, there, there were certainly a lot of questions because we didn't have the language in there. I knew that we had, but as I said, we were, uh, we were a little slow to catch that we didn't have, um, that version in the folder, so I apologize for that.

14. 0:22:45

    But happy to take any questions if anybody has any.

15. 0:22:50

    He has something.

16. 0:22:51

    You want to say

17. 0:22:54

    something?

18. 0:22:54

    Okay. I was...

19. 0:22:54

    You may wanna grab that chair. Okay. Excuse me. Sorry. Senator Kirkpatrick. Yes.

20. 0:23:00

    Thank you. I'm trying to, uh, understand this complicated structure. So what I understand now is that if the, uh, insurance on the shell, the common areas, whatever, that deductible is what we're talking about raising from 5,000 to 25,000.

21. 0:23:21

    Correct.

22. 0:23:21

    Good so far?

23. 0:23:22

    Yes.

24. 0:23:23

    Okay. So then if I'm the condo owner and, uh, something happens to the shell, I've got insurance on my unit-

25. 0:23:34

    Individual policy

26. 0:23:35

    ... on my unit, and let's say I have a $1,000 deductible or whatever, then would my insurance policy pick up the remaining part of the deductible for the... Am I saying that right? For the 24,000.

27. 0:23:55

    As someone who does not write insurance, that is my understanding as well, is exactly what you s- described. We do have two agents sitting right here, I believe, can answer that from a real world experience.

28. 0:24:06

    And the second question.

29. 0:24:07

    Want me to take it, or would you like to take it?

30. 0:24:09

    I, I'll try to.

31. 0:24:11

    I'll, I will let our, our, our, my, my illustrious vice chairman and pro tem answer the question.

32. 0:24:18

    So I, I first wanna have a disclosure that I sell very few condo policies where I live, and they're called a HO6 policy. And my understanding is the policy is gonna indemnify the in- the, their, the insured. So the HO6 insures from really the Sheetrock in.

33. 0:24:43

    Right.

34. 0:24:43

    So any changes the, the insured made, any, like, enhancements to the cabinetry or plumbing or what- I, I mean, the fi- plumbing fixtures, et cetera, uh, and their personal belongings. But it's, there's a... Generally in these HO6 policies, I think there's a, a... It kind of mirrors, it gives co- extends coverage for assessments or for the, really kind of mirrors the deductible of the master HOA policy so that there's not a gap for the individual HO6 policy holder.

35. 0:25:22

    So because our law restricts that deductible in code to $5,000, even though the HOA might carry a $25,000 deductible, the HO6 is not gonna bridge that gap. If we remove the 5,000 or if we put it at 25,000, then it, it, it will then mirror that, the HOA policy and indemnify the individual condo owner.

36. 0:25:53

    I, I think it's a good measure. Um, but again, I, I, I have to tell you that I'm not an expert on HO6s 'cause I just really don't... In my areas, we don't have a lot of condos.

37. 0:26:07

    So-

38. 0:26:08

    Mr. Chairman, can I ask-

39. 0:26:08

    Yeah, just-

40. 0:26:09

    Oh, okay

41. 0:26:09

    ... just, um, just to finish up my train of thought. So if that d- if my deductible is $1,000 and the deductible for the, um, homeowner association or whatever is $25,000, then you're saying- That she would pay her, or I would pay my $1,000 and her insurance company... It's my daughter, that's why I'm asking that. Um, uh, the insurance policy for, the HO6 policy would pick up the remaining portion, which is-

42. 0:26:43

    40

43. 0:26:43

    ... would now be 24,000 rather than-

44. 0:26:46

    Yeah, that's my understanding. So the, the HO6, the $1,000 deductible that your daughter has, is on losses to her property.

45. 0:26:56

    Oh, right.

46. 0:26:57

    This is talking about losses to the, uh, whole complex or that, you know, that building where the owners are responsible. Then it, it, it mirrors that for those kind of losses for the... It's my understanding. So if we have it capped at 5,000, that's all the insurance company, you know, they're gonna not pay the difference between the 5,000 and the 25. But if we remove that or raise it, then it would pay the full for that individual.

47. 0:27:30

    That's my understanding. Am I... Does anybody-

48. 0:27:33

    No, that's, that's correct.

49. 0:27:35

    Okay.

50. 0:27:35

    Subsequent question or follow-up to that would be, if we do this, would it im- have any impact on the premiums for the e- existing HO6 policy, since they're now gonna be liable for an extra $20,000 if there was a shell damage and replacement?

51. 0:27:57

    So my, my intuition is if it had any, it would be very nominal, but I don't even know that it would have really hardly any.

52. 0:28:06

    I mean, somebody the other day said that the, you've got water damage limits that are different now anyway than the 5,000. So we, there, there was already coverage for that-

53. 0:28:18

    That's correct

54. 0:28:18

    ... and it shouldn't.

55. 0:28:19

    This is for fires.

56. 0:28:19

    I just don't want to do... We're talk- we're thinking about unintended consequences.

57. 0:28:24

    Yes. I mean, a HO6 policy, the ones I've seen, I mean, they're $250 a year. I mean, it, they're... 'Cause-

58. 0:28:33

    Yeah

59. 0:28:33

    ... you know, maybe on the coast they're probably a li- a li-

60. 0:28:37

    5,000 vary, yeah.

61. 0:28:39

    And Atlanta, they're probably more than that too.

62. 0:28:41

    Yeah. If I could-

63. 0:28:42

    Okay

64. 0:28:42

    ... speak to that. Number six.

65. 0:28:44

    Okay.

66. 0:28:46

    Just like with a healthcare policy, when you have a higher deductible, you usually have a lower premium, so it's gonna have the same effect on that.

67. 0:28:51

    Oh, sure.

68. 0:28:51

    The, the models show that this would bring the premiums down by having a higher deductible option.

69. 0:28:57

    Okay.

70. 0:28:58

    'Cause they can't find insurance at that lower deductible.

71. 0:28:59

    Well, for the premiums down on the, on the big policy.

72. 0:29:02

    For the big policy.

73. 0:29:03

    On the shell coverage.

74. 0:29:03

    For the big policy.

75. 0:29:03

    On the shell coverage.

76. 0:29:04

    Okay. Hang on, hang on a second. Ed, uh, uh, Senator Harbison.

77. 0:29:08

    Yeah. I, i- if, if I may, Mr. Chairman, and going back to President Pro Tem. I, I, the, the, the whole thing, this HO6, how does that fit in as opposed to what the comparative ha- Is there such a thing as HO6 and now that's, will not gap between what the $5,000 is, and that's the problem to the 25,000. Is that the problem?

78. 0:29:34

    Yes, sir.

79. 0:29:34

    It, I, I, it, I just really have a problem. I know that the homeowners associations represent the homeowners, but it seems it be- got some kind of adversarial thing there. The five... What, what if we don't pass the bill, what happens? And I don't wanna hurt anybody's business, I'm just saying, what if we say no? What-

80. 0:29:55

    So this is my understanding, 'cause I did deal with this bill last year too when I was chairman. So the, the master policy for the whole property-

81. 0:30:08

    Right

82. 0:30:09

    ... that is commonly owned by all the condo owners-

83. 0:30:14

    Right

84. 0:30:14

    ... is they're s- telling us that they're unable to find any coverage with-

85. 0:30:20

    Uh

86. 0:30:20

    ... a $5,000 deductible.

87. 0:30:22

    I understand that.

88. 0:30:23

    It's not even available. Um, and so they're having to buy a higher deductible. And the fact that when you do end up having a claim in the in- if it's a fire claim, and the insurance company realizes that Georgia Code limits the, uh, exposure for the individual on that claim to $5,000, and then the, but they, the master policy's at 25. You got this gap of $20,000.

89. 0:30:53

    Okay.

90. 0:30:53

    So then they have to just basically assess to, to recoup that $20,000, 'cause you're all in this thing together.

91. 0:31:01

    I got you. I understand.

92. 0:31:01

    It's like being, being in a partnership-

93. 0:31:04

    Right

94. 0:31:04

    ... when you are in a, own a condo. So they've got to recover that money, and they just assess all the condo members, uh, even though it might be something that just happened to one building-

95. 0:31:16

    In, in one area, right

96. 0:31:17

    ... or one unit.

97. 0:31:17

    Right.

98. 0:31:18

    So everybody has to then share.

99. 0:31:20

    Right.

100. 0:31:20

     It's, it's a partnership, and it's just, I think it makes sense to, to have the insurance company on the HO6 pay more, uh, s- rather than having to assess across the whole body of people that are-

101. 0:31:36

     But consequently, the homeowners pay more too, right?

102. 0:31:42

     Well, it, I used to own a condo. Y- you're gonna-

103. 0:31:45

     You said used to.

104. 0:31:47

     The, the homeowners pay one way or the other. Um-

105. 0:31:51

     Yes. Yes

106. 0:31:51

     ... because it's like a partnership.

107. 0:31:54

     Yeah.

108. 0:31:54

     So if you, if you are paying higher premiums because you have, trying to have a lower deductible on the master policy, that's spread among all the homeowners.

109. 0:32:03

     Okay.

110. 0:32:03

     If you can get a higher deductible and save money on the premium, that savings is spread over all the homeowners.

111. 0:32:10

     I get that point. Right.

112. 0:32:10

     This is a gap that the HO6 would pay.

113. 0:32:14

     Yeah.

114. 0:32:14

     The insurance company on the HO6 would pay that gap were it not for this in our code is my understanding.

115. 0:32:23

     Well, anyway, I, thank you, sir.

116. 0:32:24

     I don't, I mean, it's hard to explain.

117. 0:32:25

     A, it, it's just really-

118. 0:32:27

     I just get a feeling about that. It just-

119. 0:32:29

     So we're not talking about renters

120. 0:32:30

     I understand

121. 0:32:31

     ... we're talking about owners

122. 0:32:32

     I understand

123. 0:32:32

     These are all partners, they're all owners

124. 0:32:34

     I understand the difference, right. It's just- It's just something about it that just... But anyway, I yield, Mr. Chairman.

125. 0:32:42

     Very good. Senator Merritt

126. 0:32:44

     Okay, I have a question. Um, so we're back to this HO-6. Do we know, like, what their limitations are? Like, if the homeowner has this HO-6 policy, let's say it is, is, is capped at, it's $10,000, right? Do we know what the limit is of the HO- S- HO-6 right now? Like, how much is that amount? 'Cause where I'm getting at is what if the HOA deductible, we're gonna raise it to 25, but let's say the homeowner's HO-6 only covers 10. That homeowner's still gonna be out, what, like, uh, 15.

127. 0:33:19

     So-

128. 0:33:20

     So I don't think there is a limit on this

129. 0:33:22

     That's, that's what I'm trying to get at. Does the-

130. 0:33:24

     I believe there is

131. 0:33:24

     ... HO-6 have some type of-

132. 0:33:26

     So there's a limit on your personal pr- Like, if you buy an HO-6, you have to say, "You know, I want to insure my personal property-

133. 0:33:33

     Got it

134. 0:33:33

     ... under an HO-6," and the value is $25,000.

135. 0:33:38

     Right. So it could be more than 10.

136. 0:33:39

     It could be $1,000

137. 0:33:40

     And, yeah

138. 0:33:40

     And, but then there's another coverage in that form that gives coverage for commonly owned property-

139. 0:33:47

     Mm-hmm

140. 0:33:47

     ... and I don't think there is a limit.

141. 0:33:49

     Okay. That, that is my question

142. 0:33:50

     And the limit is in the law, but the, what the restriction is, is we have in code that it's, uh-

143. 0:33:56

     And I'm talking about the HO-6 coverage. You're saying there's not really a limit, like it's not like 10,000 and that's it?

144. 0:34:00

     I, I don't think so

145. 0:34:01

     Yeah. Can some-

146. 0:34:02

     But-

147. 0:34:02

     Is, is it 100,000? Like, what is that?

148. 0:34:04

     I think we have-

149. 0:34:05

     I don't-

150. 0:34:06

     We, we have somebody-

151. 0:34:07

     Want to speak

152. 0:34:07

     Michael, you want to speak to this? 'Cause they say you know all this information, so we're gonna- ... we're gonna ask you.

153. 0:34:13

     I wish I knew more about-

154. 0:34:15

     Okay

155. 0:34:15

     ... uh, how to

156. 0:34:16

     Yeah, I'm, this is new information

157. 0:34:18

     Okay.

158. 0:34:18

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, my name is Michael Sheldon and I work for, uh, McGuireWoods Consulting and we represent CAI, which is the Community Associations Institute, which is essentially a association of homeowners associations. Um, and to answer, uh, Senator Barrett's question, I'm not an expert on insurance, but I don't, I don't... The, if there is a limit, the limit would be fairly high on an HO-6.

159. 0:34:42

     Okay.

160. 0:34:43

     Yeah. I'm gonna give you just kind of my, my side 'cause I do, I do some of it. Usually an HO-6 has an li- a limit that is stated in the policy for assessment. So if I've got 10 units and I have $10,000, each one of them are assessed $1,000. So what I would say is, I say this to each, each one, they're different among companies, so State Farm, Allstate, Chubb, whoever, may have a different limit for assessment coverage. But what's happened is that the, because the condo association can't buy the $5,000 deductible, just the market won't do it, it, that's why they're asking for the raise.

161. 0:35:19

     And then each individual condominium owner needs to look at their policy for the assessment, and that would be the part... And I wi- I will say this, most of the condo associations that I see let their members know that you need to cover it for a certain amount because they know that that's gonna be the maximum. Uh, and that's usually how I've seen that work in the past. And I didn't mean to kinda jump in, but that's how I've, I've, I've worked 'em in the past. Does that make sense?

162. 0:35:44

     No, I lived in a condo for a lot of years, and you're correct.

163. 0:35:46

     Okay.

164. 0:35:46

     And not only will the condo association let you know, but your, if you have a mortgage, your, your lender's gonna require that as well.

165. 0:35:53

     Your, yep. Those, the banks do a great job of that. Uh, I'm gonna ask, uh, 'cause he's blinking over here, uh, Senator Hodges, you have a, a comment on that.

166. 0:36:02

     Well, yeah, usually, I mean, if a bank finances a condo, they, you know, they're gonna make sure there's a master policy to rebuild the condo if it, if it burns down. But I don't think that banks require an HO-6.

167. 0:36:19

     Mm. My, my loan did. Did it? Okay. Yeah. I mean, we, I guess it would depend on the bank, obviously, but I mean, when you think about what the HO-6 covers, furniture and, and floor covering, and, you know. I mean, that's not really the banks anyway. The banks is the, is the building. It's the, and the common areas, and everything that I bought when I bought my condo and got a mortgage on it. My question, though, that I was gonna ask after addressing your con- Is there, if, if, do, is there any, is there any research or d- is there any knowledge of how many condominium owners don't have HO-6s?

168. 0:37:03

     'Cause if you don't have one and you have this problem-

169. 0:37:08

     Well, as, as a whole what I've seen, as part of your condo association rules and regs to be a member-

170. 0:37:14

     Yeah

171. 0:37:14

     ... you have to provide-

172. 0:37:15

     You, it-

173. 0:37:15

     ... evidence-

174. 0:37:16

     So-

175. 0:37:16

     ... that you have coverage in place in order to be a part of the condo association. Like a homeowners association many times will require that. They're not only concerned about property, they're concerned about liability-

176. 0:37:29

     Of course

177. 0:37:30

     ... that if you-

178. 0:37:30

     Yeah

179. 0:37:31

     ... have a, somebody fall down your steps, they wanna know your policy's going to respond liability-wise, and then the property of-

180. 0:37:38

     Yeah, I guess it depends on the condo docs.

181. 0:37:40

     Yep, it does.

182. 0:37:41

     Okay. All right.

183. 0:37:45

     All right.

184. 0:37:45

     And, and each... Forget my remote

185. 0:37:47

     Okay. Okie dokie. One more.

186. 0:37:48

     For instance, every instance such as this right here, the board of directors would have to vote to approve. The people would have, the, um, homeowners and the board would have to vote to make this particular move anyway. Is that correct? Is that a fair question?

187. 0:38:02

     Yes. Well, the, well, the board is gonna be charged with going and negotiating the master policy.

188. 0:38:07

     Okay.

189. 0:38:07

     So-

190. 0:38:08

     Mm-hmm

191. 0:38:08

     ... they're, they're gonna, and the, and the members would elect the board.

192. 0:38:12

     Okay. All right. What is, what is the committee? Any, any movement from the committee?

193. 0:38:28

     I'll make a motion do pass LC461447S

194. 0:38:35

     Okay. Second, have a second? Senator Hodges. Any further questions? Discussion?

195. 0:38:46

     All in favor, raise your right hand. All opposed, raise your right hand. Okay, we got one negative. You got that? One positive. We got six. One, two, three... Is that right? All right, we got that. All right.

196. 0:39:04

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

197. 0:39:04

     Thank you. I thank, thank you for stepping in. And, uh, Senator Shawn St- Senator Still, S- Shawn. I'll get it right. Senator Still, you are on your way. All right, the next one is actually mine, and I'm going to ask our vice chairman, who is very qualified to be able to, uh, take over the chair to run things for a while. Is that fair?

198. 0:39:27

     Yes, sir.

199. 0:39:28

     Okay, I'm gonna take my stuff with me and phone.

200. 0:39:35

     Bear, bear with me just...

201. 0:40:04

     All right. Our chairman is gonna speak to Senate Bill 324, and it looks like we're working off of LC529008S, which should be in your folder.

202. 0:40:21

     We got that. Let's see. I'm working

203. 0:40:30

     520967S. Let's see. Hang on. Okay. It's, it, it-

204. 0:40:36

     9008S.

205. 0:40:39

     8S, yes. Okay. He's made just a little change. We made a change there. Okay.

206. 0:40:43

     All right.

207. 0:40:44

     I w- I've got a copy right here.

208. 0:40:46

     All right.

209. 0:40:46

     I just had the other one highlighted, and we made a, a date change as far as that portion, so that's what it is.

210. 0:40:50

     The floor is yours, Chairman.

211. 0:40:51

     All right. Thank you for the floor. I appreciate it. This is a bill that we've passed out of here a couple of different times, but, um, this has got some amendments to it, or, or changes to it that I think are interesting. Um, I'm, I, I title this as a Policyholder Bill of Rights, and life insurance is a different insurance from any other insurance that anybody has, 'cause it's for life. It's not just for one year or two years. You can change auto, homeowner's insurance, and it really doesn't matter because, but a life policy is usually for the life.

212. 0:41:22

     If you will look at, um, page two and look at page, uh, item, uh, six, uh, 26, here's one of the things about it that we see happening. Life insurance companies get sold. Companies change names, things of that nature. Well, this case, I wanna show you. If you look in your file, there's an exhibit one and an exhibit two. In 2011, I, and this is an actual policy that I sold, 2011, uh, sold a policy with the Hartford Insurance Group.

213. 0:41:53

     Hartford Insurance Group's known very well, everybody that, but Hartford sold the Hartford Life company to another company called Telcot. Well, what happened, if you look at this, exhibit one, you see in 2023, they sent me an annual statement and an annual report on that policy, which I had been used to getting every year with the Hartford. Telcot takes them over on exhibit one. You, you see that I'm there, the date's there and, um, all.

214. 0:42:23

     Then I come to the next one, exhibit two, and April of '23 or '24, no longer is my name present, but Telcot's service center is present. Now, what's interesting is that if I make a call to Telcot, Telcot will not tell me anything about the policy. They will not allow me to run anything, run any information. They will not talk to me at all about a policy that I sold 11 years ago. And the client has no one really to represent them, or the c- policyholder has nobody to do that.

215. 0:42:56

     So what's happened here is the company has been sold, and that's where you see that, and they've changed the servicing agent, and I no longer can get any information on a policy that I sold 11 years. I can't represent the client, and that is, in my opinion, not a good situation. So if you look at the first one on 26, it says, "The policyholder has the right to retain his or her original agent of record for a policy, even if the insurer sells or is, tr- uh, transfers the policy to another insurer." So that my client here should ha- have the right for me to represent him if I want to represent him, and currently, that's just not true.

216. 0:43:39

     They cut you off completely, and I have to get the insurer to request information, and I will tell you that you have to sit on hold for 20 or 30 minutes sometimes to even get through to the service center. That should not be, and that's where I think the first right is that you should be able to have representation by a licensed insurance agent, uh, in that respect, and so that's the first part. The second one is on line, um,

217. 0:44:08

     30. The policyholder has a right to receive important, uh, insurance policy documents, including company illustrations, projected values, et cetera. If you look in here, there's a p- a policy that was written with American National Insurance Company. This policy was written in 1966. It's a 20 pay life, was bought by a grandfather on his daughter, and his daughter is the beneficiary. This policy, he was dead for 15 years. They found the policy in his m- his- Uh, stuff and said, "Is this policy in place?" Well, it was a 20-pay policy that no annual restatement that we can find was ever being sent at all.

218. 0:44:51

     And so what I had looked at is that in this portion is that you would have the rights to get a, a report annually dri- driven, understanding that it's probably not gonna change because it's a paid up policy, but the company still should have the responsibility to let the policyholder know that it exists and that it's there. Interesting this one. Uh, this actually was on, um, um, one of the ladies that works for me found the policy, and it was on her mother. Her grandfather had been dead for 15 years, and so that's a part that we see for older policies, and I just think that the company needs to be able to do that, and we have ways to do -- find names and things of that nature.

219. 0:45:32

     The next article or next thing you'll find in your folders is a news release from NAIC. This is the National Association of Insurance Commissioners. They have done a great job of, of, of helping us in some ways of what we call a policy locator. Uh, here's the part I always ask someone, "Do you know what policies your mother and father have in life insurance?" Some of those could be paid up or otherwise. Well, the National Association came out, and they did a great job. They created a website.

220. 0:46:02

     In fact, you can go to our commissioner and, and link into it. You can find the National Association s- website for policy locator, and when you click on it, you can actually put data information in that's there, and that data, there's a sample of what you're required to put in is there's three pages. And so what happens is they search the database and come back and say, "Hey, we have a policy." I had a client that had a, a $150,000 policy that we found that was on the person that nobody knew anything about.

221. 0:46:36

     Understanding that with life insurance, the beneficiary is required to file the death claims. So this is in place, but what this does, the National Association has no authority over the states because the states are ruled state by state. I have a letter, and you'll find also in your file that I had, and this is 21, and it's not changed from the Insurance Commissioner's offices. There's currently no require- requirement in Georgia, uh, law for a life insurers to review the National Association of Insurance Commissioners policy locator.

222. 0:47:10

     We believe only four states in the nation have mandated this. However, there is a legal requirement under the Unclaimed Life Insurance Benefit Act found in OCG 33-25-14 for life insurers to check the Social Security death master file against their in-force policies on at least a semi-annual basis to identify a potential death master file matches. So what happens is they get the Social Security death benefit list. They know their insured is dead.

223. 0:47:41

     But contractually, the beneficiary has to be the one who files the claim, and if he does not know about it, it's very hard. Now, the insurance company has a period of time in which they can do it, and if they don't find it, they send the check to the state to unclaimed property. That's where some of this ends up. What I have proposed, if you look at, um,

224. 0:48:11

     uh, th- line 38, the policyholder has the right to beneficiary protection. The insurer sure shall conduct a search of the National Association of Insurance Commissioner policy locator systems at least quarterly, no later than January the 1st of 2027, and annually thereafter. Every insurer that reports to the commissioner these results of their search. The commissioner, uh, will put that in place. So what I'm asking is this, is if you're an insurance, a life insurance company that does business in the state of Georgia, you at least look at the search engine that is provided by the National Association and that the state is requiring you if you sell insurance to, uh, search for the policy.

225. 0:48:53

     Because if not, because they match it with the Social Security death benefit list, it's then gonna go to the state to unclaimed property. And I will tell you that I've worked with this. There are clients that have policies they don't know exist, and I'm saying more and more it, it needs to be required by our law that our companies that do business in our states check that locator that's put in, and the commissioners probably would do it, but they don't have the authority to do that because each state is governed by the state that it's operating in, if that makes sense.

226. 0:49:30

     Um, I've worked with this. Helping people find policies on especially older people that are paid up is a real, real challenge, and I think this is it. Uh, this at least operates a framework. I will tell you that, um, if you go back about six years ago, Florida had, uh, a, a settlement of about seven point, I think, $7.5 billion in which the insurance companies knew they were dead, but no notification was given, and even some of those policies would lapse because after six months, the bills and all, you know, d- get returned from that standpoint.

227. 0:50:07

     But I will say this, in the indus- industry's defense, what we are seeing on new policies, we are seeing third-party notification. This one that I showed you that was written in 1966 had no address, no Social Security number, no date of birth for the beneficiary, so it was really it, it's harder to find. But I think that at least the ability to, um, search that if, if that's Your mother or father and know that the insurance companies in the state of Georgia are at least required to look at that and report annually back to the commissioner.

228. 0:50:41

     I just think that our policy holders have a right. The one that really, and I say bothers me, is when a company can be sold. I will tell you, I wrote a letter last year to the president of the company. I got no response just asking for that, uh, because I do think that my client in this case had $100,000 and a million dollar death benefit, and it also provides a long-term care benefit to him. I need to, if I sold that to him, I need to have the, the ability to know that, what's going on, and to just turn off that, that.

229. 0:51:12

     Lot of times, not always, a book is sold only. They're not selling any new business. They're just ru- have, we call it runoff, and they're just letting the policies lapse. So I just believe this, this is a consumer bill. I believe that the policy holders of Georgia, my clients, and the cl- all the clients in the state of Georgia that are represented need some protection from that standpoint, and that's a part of my bill, and I hope y'all don't think I preach too much.

230. 0:51:40

     All right. We got some questions.

231. 0:51:42

     I figured.

232. 0:51:44

     All right. We got some questions. I think the first one I saw lit up was, uh, Senator Kirkpatrick.

233. 0:51:51

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, first of all, I was gonna thank you for being so persistent 'cause that letter's from 2021, and I'm glad that you're staying with us because some of us have dealt with this in our own families, not knowing where the policies are, bank accounts, things like that. And I was gonna ask you, isn't it true that that's why we have $8.8 billion in Georgia unclaimed property? Isn't that a big contributor? But you answered that. So the only question I have is people move around, so they're, they may have bought the policy in another state, and then they end up in Georgia.

234. 0:52:28

     How does that work? Are there other states that are doing the same thing?

235. 0:52:32

     At that, at the time we did this, there were four states that had done it when we had seen this. But here's the part. They key off of Social Security numbers, and if you put the data in here, most of these companies are multi-state operations in that respect. The way we've drawn this is that if, if you're, if you are a Georgia company and do business in Georgia, you will look at the, the, uh, policy locator at least quarterly and report annually to the commissioner, if that makes sense.

236. 0:53:03

     And they know the policies are there. You've just gotta find them, and sometimes... I'll, I'll give you one i- idea that, um, the company name had changed three different times, and the only way, way that we found it was it was an automatic bank draft on a checking account, and we found the checking account. We didn't know who it was being drafted for or what it was being drafted for 'cause the name didn't match anything we had, but we finally found it, and there was $150,000 in a policy that was in place at that time.

237. 0:53:31

     Thank you.

238. 0:53:32

     Yeah.

239. 0:53:34

     All right. Senator Still, do you have a question?

240. 0:53:39

     I do. Thank you, Mr. Pro Tem. Um, Chairman, thank you for the bill. Uh, interesting that you used a couple of examples of policies, um, that were universal life.

241. 0:53:53

     Mm-hmm.

242. 0:53:53

     Um, you know, I talked a little bit about this. So when it talks about, um, on line, um, 38, policyholder has the right to beneficiary protection, um, you include your fees, interest deductions, et cetera.

243. 0:54:11

     Oh.

244. 0:54:11

     Um, there is a growing, uh, industry segment that is selling universal life as an investment, uh, type of product where the fees in the, um, uh, management of the policy often can exceed the value.

245. 0:54:32

     Mm-hmm.

246. 0:54:33

     And so there's no accountability for people writing these policies where, um, they can charge exorbitant fees without any regulation or, or, um, really any, any guardrails to it. And i- in the case of, um, several people, uh, in the State of Georgia are defrauded the entire policy value because they're drained empty because of said fees. Um, I know your bill doesn't speak to that directly, but that line 38 really speaks to that, that, that policyholders, they have a right to protection.

247. 0:55:12

     What protections are there for, um, consumers that are buying these products in good faith as an investment, but then after just a couple months or years, then they end up being zeroed out and their entire investment is absorbed due to, uh, the management of the product, and then it's, it's just wiped out?

248. 0:55:31

     Okay. I'm, I'm gonna probably take you to line 30, is the policyholder has the right to illustrations. This particular pol- Well, let me, let me address. First was universal life that came out, the first version of universal life. If I showed you page three and four of this co- contract, they should show at current rates and at guaranteed rates the, if you pay no premium or if you pay premium. That's how you monitor a policy. It would say it will run for 10 years with no premium. It'll run for 20 years at current.

249. 0:56:02

     So it at least gives you that there's more than just this one page to most universal life policies. First generation universal life policies were at a time when interest rates were high, and you have to really monitor them very closely because interest rates came down from what they were projected. I will call gen two of universal life had premium guarantees. This particular product, because I sold it, had a pr- premium. If you paid it to age 65, it was paid up from a standpoint of death benefit and benefit that was there.

250. 0:56:35

     So the agent and client should get this annually, and it usually will show here's your current, if you ke- current, how long it will run under current, guaranteed how many years it will run with and without premium. Here's why I say this. When they cut the agent off, and I d- I'm, I'm working on three right now, they've said, "How long will this run?" And without this and without some assistance, they're lost because it's a, it's a more complicated product as far as that portion.

251. 0:57:07

     So what I see is this, is that I like my, for me, where there's a guarantee, I want guarantees, but if I don't have a guarantee, I've got to have a report annually to be able to evaluate the status of the k- of the policy, if that makes sense.

252. 0:57:23

     It does.

253. 0:57:23

     And, and like I said, there's variations of products, but w- when the company turns this off from the agent that sold it or anybody and says to the client, "You're on your own," that's where I see this as really wrong. And what, if you look at this, I would say this, is that if you wanted me to... Let's say you bought a policy from someone and you wanted me to be your agent, whether I represent that company or not, you should be able to assign an agent to represent you just like a, an attorney can represent you and he doesn't necessarily have to work for or whatever.

254. 0:58:00

     You need professional guidance as far as that. And, and, and if that, let's say I- I'm dead or I'm retired or whatever, non-active, you need to find somebody that can hel- help walk you through these processes. Uh, I'll give you an example. My mother was 96 years old. We didn't expect her to live that long, but we had to monitor her policy to make sure we were paying the premium to keep the death benefit in place. And then without an a- And I was, I was pulling annuals because I wanted to know where, where I was.

255. 0:58:31

     I don't know if that had answered your question, but I gave you a lot more probably than you asked for. But 30 is really where I would go. 38 is dealing with the beneficiary being able to find the policy, that there is a policy in place, and that's where I see the ability to find that policy. People don't realize it. And what, uh, what, um, Senator Kirkpatrick, you said 8.5 billion?

256. 0:58:54

     8.8.

257. 0:58:55

     8.8 bill- in unclaimed, and some of that is life insurance policies that they can't find just going to the state.

258. 0:59:02

     Thank you.

259. 0:59:03

     Okay.

260. 0:59:05

     S- Senator Merritt.

261. 0:59:06

     So yeah, this is a similar question. Maybe, you know, you answered it or maybe not, but my concern is, um, will this cause... I mean, this is, uh, administrative cost 'cause you have to go back into the database. That's one thing you have to, um, report. So there's some workload to your company.

262. 0:59:25

     Oh.

263. 0:59:25

     Does that get... So do- does that get passed on to, to the actual consumer, the administrative fees that it's gonna require?

264. 0:59:33

     Where I request a illustration or a repro- we call it reprojection.

265. 0:59:37

     Mm-hmm.

266. 0:59:37

     I said, "Tell me how long this policy would run with no money, with the current premium, or what kind of money do I have to put in it to keep it wa- let's say to my age 100."

267. 0:59:45

     Mm-hmm.

268. 0:59:45

     They don't charge for that.

269. 0:59:47

     Mm-hmm.

270. 0:59:47

     But what they do, they cut me off where I can't even get that information. That's why I think that's wrong, is that if you wrote the policy, you should be able to get it. But then even if you're not one of their agents, I should be able, with the authorization of the insured, be able to... You follow what I'm saying? Be able to... If you call me and said, "Hey, I've got a policy. My agent's not in business anymore," or whatever.

271. 1:00:10

     Mm-hmm.

272. 1:00:11

     Somebody should be able to represent you, and that's the part that I think is critically important, um, i- is to have representation, and that's why I look at this. When I get cut off, I'll be honest with you, it does not make me happy because I feel like I have a responsibility to my client. And I'll be honest, life insurance makes a different in people's lives. It makes a difference whether they keep the house, they educate their children, and I believe it's an important part of our whole structure in that respect. I will tell you that when we ran this before-

273. 1:00:42

     Mm-hmm

274. 1:00:42

     ... before even this, some of the companies said that, "Well, just to, to check the Social Security..." Or excuse me, "... to check the, um, policy, uh, listing for the National Association is gonna cost money." Well, yes it does, but that's, that's a part of your responsibility in my opinion of doing business, and I don't, I don't buy that because the National Association recognizes it. This is all the commissioners recognize it, but that has to be done state by state, if that makes sense.

275. 1:01:10

     Mm-hmm.

276. 1:01:10

     And so what we're saying is that if you do business in this, you just simply set it. If they get a death benefit notice from Social Security, they have to do it under, under the law. But then if they can't find the beneficiary, they send the money to the state.

277. 1:01:27

     Okay. So what you're doing, the work that you're doing, you're taking over on their behalf.

278. 1:01:33

     Right.

279. 1:01:34

     My question is just doing that and taking it over and doing all the administrative stuff, will that cost them more or...?

280. 1:01:41

     For my clients, I don't charge any fee from that standpoint. That's just what we call it, it's an ongoing cost of service to the client.

281. 1:01:47

     Okay.

282. 1:01:48

     And so that's what we do. And, and I mean, here's the part about it. Uh, you, you sit there and said, "Hey, we may can buy something cheaper." Don't know. It depends upon health. But what I see is this, and he, uh, uh, Senator Still, Senator Shawn Still, I'll get it right, uh, mentioned Universal-

283. 1:02:06

     Universal Life

284. 1:02:06

     ... Universal Life. And Universal Life is a very interest sensitive product that needs monitoring. It just does not put it on hold and let it run. It's got to have a monitoring to know where it's going and what it's doing, and that's why this also is very important.

285. 1:02:22

     All right, we got, uh, one more question and then we're gonna see if anybody wants to speak-

286. 1:02:27

     Maybe get-

287. 1:02:27

     ... to the bill. I don't know if the sign-up sheet got put out or, or not, but Senator Hodges.

288. 1:02:35

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Mr. Chairman, the, what rights do beneficiaries have in Georgia? I know that I've, I've seen several times where somebody would have a beneficiary die. Beneficiary might, may or may not have known they were beneficiary to a policy. And, um, so do they have any rights? And if they don't, should part of your bill, if you're asking to be the agent and keep up and have information, I mean, sh- should you also then keep up with who the current beneficiary is and make sure that they get what's due them if your client, the owner of the policy dies?

289. 1:03:21

     Normally, in a life insurance policy, you have, I'm gonna call three people that are involved, or four if you count it. You have the company, you have the owner of the policy, you have the insured, and you have the beneficiary.

290. 1:03:32

     Right.

291. 1:03:32

     And technically, there's a fifth, which is a contingent beneficiary. Many times-

292. 1:03:36

     Mm-hmm

293. 1:03:36

     ... we will use a contingent beneficiary, which could be children or could be the estate. I don't like the estate. I would rather have it to a person, if you will, because then we tie the money back up. Any beneficiary designation passes through and bypasses probate, which is what I'm attempting to do most of the time. The newer policies or new applications are asking for Social Security numbers, addresses, and information that were not asked, I'll say five and 10 years ago. We're, we're much better at that. But the other part is we've got technology today to find people that we've never had before, too, and that's the part that I think that, how do I say, having this, this...

294. 1:04:15

     We have the, the framework of the nationals-

295. 1:04:18

     Do, do, does the beneficiary have the right to be found? I mean, is there an obligation on the part of the insurance company to find the beneficiary?

296. 1:04:27

     No. No, not that I know of.

297. 1:04:30

     So it-

298. 1:04:31

     The o- And so the beneficiary, to your point, Senator Hodges, the beneficiary doesn't even necessarily know they're the beneficiary.

299. 1:04:40

     Right.

300. 1:04:40

     They have no rights within the policies-

301. 1:04:42

     Right

302. 1:04:42

     ... between the owner of the policy and the-

303. 1:04:45

     The c-

304. 1:04:45

     ... insurance company, and the beneficiary can make no changes to the policy.

305. 1:04:49

     Right.

306. 1:04:50

     Can make no-

307. 1:04:50

     No, I get that.

308. 1:04:52

     So-

309. 1:04:52

     But after, after the owner or the insured, say the owner and the insured, usually the same person. Usually.

310. 1:04:58

     Usually.

311. 1:04:59

     If they die, then the only person that's got any standing is the beneficiary, but they don't have any rights to be notified. Nobody-

312. 1:05:09

     They really have to follow-

313. 1:05:09

     Nobody owes them anything

314. 1:05:10

     ... follow the death claim to get... They, they have to file a death claim.

315. 1:05:14

     They have to file a death claim.

316. 1:05:15

     I, I get that, but if they- Okay. But-

317. 1:05:18

     And, and understanding if they don't file it, the, n- under the current Georgia law, they have to match it against the Social Security death benefit list, and that money, if they can't, that, they don't-

318. 1:05:28

     They being who?

319. 1:05:30

     The company.

320. 1:05:31

     Company.

321. 1:05:32

     And so they don't have a beneficiary-

322. 1:05:34

     I'm gonna see if there's any-

323. 1:05:34

     ... that they know about or can fi-

324. 1:05:35

     Uh, that's their other te-

325. 1:05:36

     ... that's their. The money goes directly to the state.

326. 1:05:39

     All right. Thank you, Chairman.

327. 1:05:41

     I'm sorry.

328. 1:05:41

     Is there anybody... I'm not, I don't think we got the sign-up sheet out. So Mr. Potter, you wanna s- speak to this bill?

329. 1:05:51

     I will.

330. 1:05:52

     And I believe you represent State Farm, but state your name and-

331. 1:05:56

     Yes, sir

332. 1:05:56

     ... your law firm and-

333. 1:05:58

     All that stuff?

334. 1:05:59

     Yes, sir.

335. 1:06:02

     So I'm not positive I want to speak to this bill- ... but I am here and I, and I will. I'm, uh, I'm Bobby Potter, and I do represent State Farm here, and also represent the American Council of Life Insurers. Most life insurers are members of the American Council of Life Insurers, including State Farm. Um- ... what's been discussed is a lot, and it's, uh, there's, it, some of it is deja vu. Um, I've had, uh, part of this conversation with Senator Harbin, now Chairman Harbin, many times over these last half dozen years or so, something like that.

336. 1:06:37

     Um, let, let me respond to this in maybe three buckets. Um, and I saw the sub here when I came up. I wa- I was looking at something before that, but the first is, uh,

337. 1:06:54

     the thought of, of the policyholder going and picking an agent because his agent has died or is no longer there. Um, that I think is a foreign concept to the whole process of agency insurers and contracts between insurers and agents. I think that would be true with State Farm. It would be true with independent agents like the chairman and this chairman, um, that would have contracts with various insurers.

338. 1:07:28

     So it's, they, they're bound by that contract. The policyholder has bought that but is, uh, doesn't have a,

339. 1:07:41

     a, a, has that contract bought from that, uh, insurer. But for the policyholder to go pick another agent and say, "This agent has a, is mandated by the State of Georgia to have a relationship with an insurer," that he or she doesn't have, that's, that's, that's a foreign concept. And the, and when I say deja vu, we, we, uh, I'll talk about buckets two and three in a minute. But this, this part to me is new, and I think it, it is different than anything I've seen over time.

340. 1:08:18

     That would, and it's, it's, it's a bit challenging. If the agent, for instance, was, that sold the policy was a State Farm agent, State Farm would take care of the next successor agent. But under this scenario, that policyholder could go pick an independent agent, his brother-in-law or sister-in-law, and there would be a kind of a forced relationship that didn't otherwise exist. So it's kind of outside the bounds of contractual relationships that are the norm in an insurance agent relationship.

341. 1:08:56

     An agent that owes obligations to the insurer, this, this, this would just be entirely different. So I'd now, I've expressed concerns relative to that, that, and that's lines 28 and 29 and 33 and 35. That's just different than anything that exists in, that I know of in, in normal insurance law. Um, the second bucket I would mention is, is kind of part of the deja vu, but that is the requirement, uh, to, for the insurer to send, where is that number?

342. 1:09:34

     Um, the annual report detailing the status of his or her po- policy, an insurer shall provide the annual report even if the policy is fully paid. I understand that concept, uh, that Chairman Har- Harbin has indicated that that will be sent out. But there are some very low limit policies where the, the profit margin is small, and for the State of Georgia to require that insurer to send out an annual statement that they might not otherwise send just will diminish that to the extent that there may be some insurers that would choose to take their business somewhere else and not sell that policy.

343. 1:10:19

     So availability may become an issue. That would not be an issue with larger insurers, I don't think. And, and another thing I would say about that is, in this realm, there are insurers that sell Cadillac type policies, and there are insurers that sell less expensive policies that don't cover as much. Right. In fact, uh, the chairman mentioned there is a variation of products, and there is a variation of products. Um, but to require all of them to do certain things changes that variation and makes some of the, that uniform and maybe not necessarily a good idea because it could impact availability.

344. 1:11:00

     And then, um, the third bucket I would mention is the policy locator service. Uh, we have discussed this, uh, before this committee a number of times. There are big numbers, but the folks that, uh, provide me with this information indicate a couple things from that perspective, and that is, some of that's been brought up. Um, in terms of the policy locator service, uh, what I'm shown is $13.18 billion in life insurance and annuity benefits have been located for consumers.

345. 1:11:32

     Over 1.17 million search requests processed. Over 611,000 matched policies. And the indication here is the NAIC policy locator portal works. It's in existence, and it works for Georgians already. The second piece of that is insurers are required, and Chairman had mentioned the Death Master File. Sounds a bit like Darth Vader, but the Death Master File is, uh, tied to Social Security. Uh, it is referenced in the Georgia Code in 35-25-14.

346. 1:12:07

     So insurers are required, uh, on a semi-annual basis to compare the Death Master File to their policies. And if they identify a match, then within 90 days, uh, Senator Hodges, you asked about what rights a beneficiary has. Uh, th- this may be one, actually, that the, um, the insurer is required by Georgia law to try to find that beneficiary. If there's a match, then within 90 days they're required to make a good faith effort, documented by the insurer, to confirm the death of the person against other available records and information, and pursue that and try to find the beneficiary.

347. 1:12:51

     That is outlined in 35-25-14. So that is done and required by Georgia law already. Uh, the-

348. 1:13:03

     It's fine

349. 1:13:04

     ... insurance department is, is part of the NAIC and very familiar with the NAIC policy locator service. I'm not sure they want to have, uh,

350. 1:13:17

     an annual report from each insurer showing that they have checked the N- NAIC policy locator service when that's part of what they would do anyway after the requirement of checking the Death Master File. And the Death Master File and this combination has worked. Um, clearly there would be an exception from time to time, uh, as, as referenced, uh, by the chairman. But that's the concerns that I would express on behalf of ACLI, um, particularly the first part with the agent-insurer relationship that is, is shifted when the policyholder can pick somebody that has no contractual relationship with the insurer.

351. 1:14:03

     You have a question, Mr. Potter, uh, Senator Hodges?

352. 1:14:06

     I just, I wanted to ask a question about, um, your comments about, um, line 28 and 29. If an insurance company sells a book of business to another insurance company, you're saying that, that the concept of, of keeping the original agent i- is foreign to you, is, is new, is hard? Because you're gonna have to pay them residual premiums anyway, aren't you?

353. 1:14:36

     I mean, you're gonna, not premiums, but commissions.

354. 1:14:39

     I think, uh, and, and somebody and others m- may speak to that. I think in a, a number of these cases, the commissions have already been paid. The commissions have been paid originally.

355. 1:14:49

     Oh, they're pa-... Oh, okay. All right.

356. 1:14:51

     The term of art or the term utilized here Um, is assist. That a policyholder designates a local agent to assist him or her with a policy

357. 1:15:03

     That, that's where, that's what you have trouble with.

358. 1:15:05

     Yes, sir. And if-

359. 1:15:06

     If y- if, if Marty retires, if he's not around, and then the owner can say, "I don't want the State Farm agent that you just assigned to me. I want some, I want somebody else."

360. 1:15:18

     Somebody from Prudential. They, they, they could, um, and-

361. 1:15:23

     I get that

362. 1:15:23

     ... the chairman equated it to an attorney, but the attorney, pick one, whether it's the billboard lawyers or, or otherwise. They don't have a relationship with the insurer, the insurer. Um, that would be, that would be different if somebody hires an attorney to pursue something on their behalf. But to require an insurer to deal with a, an agent selected by the po- policyholder, that's what I would say is, is foreign.

363. 1:15:55

     But, but Marty sells a policy. The company sells their book of business. Company A sells it to Company B.

364. 1:16:08

     Company B can still deal with Marty or not?

365. 1:16:14

     Well, in the example we gi-

366. 1:16:15

     Yeah

367. 1:16:15

     ... he gave, that Company B had a hard time dealing with him. I, I would, uh, uh, I would say the solution seemed to me to be the policyholder that had the connection with that company-

368. 1:16:26

     Okay

369. 1:16:26

     ... can make that request.

370. 1:16:30

     Thank you. Any further questions for Bobby?

371. 1:16:33

     Just for clarity.

372. 1:16:34

     What, what's your number, Chairman?

373. 1:16:36

     I'm 86.

374. 1:16:36

     Yes, sir.

375. 1:16:38

     For clarity and just, uh, for my, uh, correction in my mind. In the first place, if you approach a client in the first place, the question you ask, uh, and the question the company would ask, uh, does this person already have coverage? Is that correct? And be- beyond that, they wouldn't, they, they didn't ha- If they had coverage already, they would have to say, "Was this changed policy," or something to that effect. Isn't that a line of questioning you have to go through in the first place? Not, not the sale, I'm just saying that initial contact for the first agent even, you would have to inquire as to whether or not, uh, does this poli- to the company that's gonna cover, uh, does this, is this a change?

376. 1:17:22

     Is this a new, um, policy for this person or are they already covered? There's some questioning along those lines, I believe.

377. 1:17:29

     What I gave you as an example has happened.

378. 1:17:32

     Yeah.

379. 1:17:32

     Is the company's been sold, and they no longer recognize the agent that sold the policy as the agent to even ask questions.

380. 1:17:40

     Yeah.

381. 1:17:40

     Bear with me. When you're dealing with older insureds especially, they do not have the mental tenacity to really understand-

382. 1:17:51

     Okay

383. 1:17:51

     ... all the questions that are there. And I'm just saying, without representation of some kind, it's very hard. And I work many times with policies that I don't make anything off of. I help the client do the best, what's best for them. But when n- I can't get information, and I'm not a- alone, as any agent can't. Uh, just like this, I know that State Farm will not recognize me as an agent with them because I'm not licensed with them. But if I hire an attorney, and the attorney ha- request information, or the policyholder request information, what it, it, uh, what, what happens in these cases is that I have to write the letter for the insured.

384. 1:18:30

     The insured has to send it. It has to go through the situations, and it's just really, it, it handicaps the policyholder, who shouldn't be punished. And, and my second part that it's interesting that we can require them to check the Social Security death benefit list, but it's too hard for them to check the commissioner's list or to respond to that. That I don't understand totally in that respect because that was the position of the National Association of Insurance Commissioners. And since it's theirs, I think that's the on- that's why, how I see that.

385. 1:19:02

     Okay?

386. 1:19:04

     Uh-

387. 1:19:04

     I don't know if I've changed positions. Do I get to ask questions?

388. 1:19:07

     Chairman Harbin, um-

389. 1:19:08

     No

390. 1:19:09

     ... it's a little after 5:00.

391. 1:19:11

     I know.

392. 1:19:11

     We've got, uh, Senator Still has another meeting he's gotta get to. Do you want, what, what's your desire? I, I have a que- let me just ask my question. I'll try to be quick.

393. 1:19:24

     No. No.

394. 1:19:25

     I'm a little concerned, if you look at lines 23 through 25, where you define policyholder.

395. 1:19:34

     Mm-hmm.

396. 1:19:35

     So a policyholder can be an individual who is insured under a policy, the owner of the policy, personal responsible to pay the premiums of a policy, or the individual designated as the beneficiary. And oftentimes we sell pol- and then you go on to say the policyholder that's been defined there has all these rights. We oftentimes sell life insurance policies on a mom or dad.

397. 1:20:08

     Mm-hmm.

398. 1:20:08

     The beneficiary m- might be the spouse. Um, they might get a divorce. The spouse is then the, the spouse is the beneficiary, so then they are defined as a policyholder. Then the spouse can then have all these rights and start controlling the policy. That could, in a divorce situation, that could be very problematic. A lot of times people get divorced, and they don't change the beneficiary-

399. 1:20:41

     Oh, yeah

400. 1:20:41

     ... for ever or quite some time.

401. 1:20:44

     Until death occurs.

402. 1:20:45

     Another example is a ch- a child could be the beneficiary. They're now defined as a policyholder. They, the child, has all these rights. I, I, I just believe we might wanna- clean that up a little bit. That concerns me, and, um, I don't ... I'm conceptually, I'm, I'm an independent agent like you. I think agents bring a tremendous amount of value to the client and to advocating for the client. I j- I just think we maybe are, are opening up some unintended consequences with defining the beneficiary as the policyholder when that's not, I don't think, what you really intend.

403. 1:21:29

     Am I ... Do you ... Am I reading it right? Or-

404. 1:21:33

     I get as broad as I can, sir- ... because of that. If you would like to do this, and, and as, uh, let's ... We- we'll c- we'll c- go wait for our, um, our next meeting, unless you and I, and, and, um, m- M- Mr. Potter talk, but I do think this. I think that Georgia, the, the policyholders of Georgia need to have protection, and there is evidence that you and I should not be limited in what we can get for that, fr- from that person. And I believe this, is that we shouldn't have $8 billion in unclaimed money.

405. 1:22:06

     We need to find a way that that goes to the right people. And I'm gonna tell you the ones that I personally think are hurt the most. It is the smaller policyholders, like this 20 pay life that was paid from nine- and from 1966 to 1986, and nobody even knew it existed.

406. 1:22:23

     All right. We got one more question-

407. 1:22:25

     Yeah

408. 1:22:25

     ... and then we're gonna probably-

409. 1:22:26

     I was, I was just gonna say, I think it would be beneficial to have some further conversations before we vote on this, because we know that what's happening now is not working as well as it could, and that's how we end up with all this unclaimed property. So I, I like the concept, but I think it needs some more work. So, um-

410. 1:22:48

     Okay. We'll come back-

411. 1:22:48

     Yeah

412. 1:22:48

     ... and we'll

413. 1:22:48

     Is that okay with you? All right. Thank you.

414. 1:22:51

     I'm good. Thank you, sir.

415. 1:22:54

     Okay. You and I.

416. 1:22:56

     Yeah. Your father, he had to find $250,000 worth. Didn't he, your father? Did he have trouble finding policies?

417. 1:23:02

     Yes.

418. 1:23:06

     Okay.

419. 1:23:07

     Thank you.

420. 1:23:08

     Okay.

421. 1:23:09

     And, and the, the insurer had to agree, right? So, at this point, I think it's a hard ... I, I understand. I just think that they've over... I do. That's great.

422. 1:23:25

     All right. So we will, uh, meet again t- is it, our meeting's on Tuesday, so-

423. 1:23:32

     Yeah, Tuesday. That's right.

424. 1:23:32

     Thank you. We stand adjourned.