Comité Veterans, Military, and Homeland Security del Senado, 23 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

324 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:12:25

   Today, uh, just a quick announcement. Today we are hearing an agenda we put out last week, had HB 108 and HB 8- 985. We are not gonna hear those at the request of the author s- uh, today. They're still working on some language on those two, so today we're just gonna hear Senate Bill 190 by Senator Wicks. And so, um, if you would, I would ask, would you please just invoke a prayer? What number?

2. 0:12:51

   Eight.

3. 0:12:53

   Freddie.

4. 0:12:54

   Let us pray. Lord God, you've given us another great day here, and if you'll give us another day to honor you, Lord, and work for the heart of the people of Georgia. Lord, we just ask you to provide us with the wisdom, moderation, and justice, Lord, to do the right thing. In your Son's name we pray. Amen.

5. 0:13:09

   Amen. Thank, sir. Well, I have, uh, just as, as our first meeting convenes for the year, just say welcome to everybody, and it's good to have all of our community back together again. And um, I really appreciate the work this committee does because it's, it's amazing how when it comes to our veterans, everybody's focused. And I've always appreciated that about our community, to make sure we're doing the best thing in the interest of all the men and women who serve our nation. And also representing the interest of the state as well.

6. 0:13:39

   So just say welcome, welcome to everyone. And Senator Wicks, you're the only g- show we have today, so if you would like, you can present your... If you wanna go to that, the middle one, and we'll go... present your bill.

7. 0:13:52

   She wanna go to the podium.

8. 0:13:53

   I, I think the major rates to go to the podium, that she wants to go.

9. 0:13:56

   Or you can go to the podium if you'd like to.

10. 0:13:59

    I got some presenters with me.

11. 0:14:00

    Okay.

12. 0:14:01

    Yeah.

13. 0:14:06

    Good morning.

14. 0:14:09

    You wanna pull that mic and that mic towards y'all too? Or y'all might need to share that one.

15. 0:14:15

    We can share.

16. 0:14:19

    There we go.

17. 0:14:20

    Well, good morning, Senator Wicks. Go ahead and present your bill.

18. 0:14:23

    Good morning, Mr. Th- oh, wow. Good morning, Mr. Chairman, Committee Members. I am Senator Wicks, a- along with...

19. 0:14:30

    I'm Steven McNeel II. I'm the deputy campaign director for the Sierra Club's Military Outdoors campaign.

20. 0:14:36

    Raquel Durden, retired US Army combat veteran and nonprofit leader for veterans.

21. 0:14:42

    Media Barnett, US Air Force veteran, nonprofit leader of the VetSpace.

22. 0:14:47

    Okay.

23. 0:14:48

    And basically, we just wanted to present, uh, Senate Bill 190. Basically, this bill encompasses just a discounted rate for, uh, service member Gold Star families, um, and their families to just enter not only historical areas, mem- uh, memorial areas and state parks, just at a discounted rate. Um, just collaborating with, uh, Natural, uh, Resources to find out what the, the discounted rate would be. But just wanna give back to our service members for all the hard work that we have done and sacrifice.

24. 0:15:21

    Um, just not only for us, but for our mental health. Using these natural resources and just entering these, these parks, um, just, uh, collaborates with our wellbeing and our, um, our mental health. And I wanna give, uh, some of the, the team that I have been working with for the last two years a, a chance just to, just to share their thoughts. Go ahead, Sherman.

25. 0:15:44

    Good morning again. Thank you, uh, for your time. Thank you, uh, thank you members of the committee for your service to Georgia. Um, so again, I'm Sh- I'm Sherman Neil. I'm a Uni- United States Marine Corps veteran and a resident of John's Creek. Um, talking about this bill in the past two years is really important to me because, uh, I know that it saves lives. In prep- in preparation to talk today, I brought a letter that, uh, I wrote to my daughter who's here, in 2017 when I was deployed in the Middle East in support of operations against the Islamic State.

26. 0:16:14

    Two of the things that were in that letter, um, to her, a daughter I hadn't met yet, 'cause she was born four days after I deployed, were, "I can't cry," and the words, "I'm glad this is over, but I doubt things get easier." Both of those things ended up being true. One of those things almost wrecked me, like it does many veterans. Uh, not knowing how to cry, not knowing where to go, not knowing who to talk to, obviously, is a problem that many of us face. And, uh, the outdoors became a place where I with, you know, brothers, sisters, and service people I'd never met, were able to bond and come together.

27. 0:16:46

    Uh, that bonding matured into an opportunity to serve others in this position in the outdoors, and to see the scientific, uh, uh, help, the tangible changes that it makes in people. And see the careers, and how it can keep people here. And what we can do in Georgia and across the nation as we create jobs. We have thousands of Georgia in places like Fort Stewart, Moody Air Force Base, uh, Fort Benning, you know, the list goes on, that are gonna be exiting and in transition. We have an opportunity to use these parks to not only, uh, buttress their, their resiliency in the outdoors in a safe space, but also keep them here and create these opportunities for them to serve our communities and, uh, really become champions for conservation and the ecosystem.

28. 0:17:31

    Uh, the, the last comment I would like to close with on that is, you know, this is, um, a lot of learning in real time and a lot of opportunities. I took inspiration today, uh, for this work from, um, a soldier, an airman, a Tuskegee Airmen named John Lloyd Atkinson. John Lloyd Atkinson was the first Black superintendent of a state park in Georgia, known as George Washington Carver State Park. That was created from Red Top Mountain State Park. We are able to take veterans out to that space and imagine what it took at that point in time during desegregation to create a space for veterans to have a space led by veterans, and then see it merge together with Red Top Mountain.

29. 0:18:11

    And we see today what is, what it's, uh, done for that c- community, uh, for, for, for other veterans. And, and just it's a, it's a, a vision that we can replicate here. An inspiration that if we, you know, look past some of the numbers and the how do we do this and, you know, bean counting, um- That we can realize the real change and the real lives that'll be sa- saved. So I appreciate it, thank you for your time, and I appreciate the opportunity to speak with y'all today.

30. 0:18:37

    Thank you.

31. 0:18:40

    All right. Good morning chairman, members of the committee, brothers and sisters in service and attendees. Thanks for allowing me to speak for the roughly 700,000 veterans who currently reside in the state of Georgia, and approximately 75,000 personnel stationed in Georgia. I'm Raquel Derdan, Army Lieutenant Colonel paratrooper. Hooah.

32. 0:19:02

    Hooah.

33. 0:19:02

    Hooah.

34. 0:19:03

    Combat veteran, published author on wellness, holistic wellness. Founder of Humble Warrior Wellness and Yoga Nonprofit, and I was honored as the Georgia Woman Veteran of the Year for 2025, last year. Annually, our nonprofit hosts a gratitude walk in one of our beautiful state parks each year. We intentionally choose state parks because they're safe, structured environments with clear entrances, designated parking, and a security presence.

35. 0:19:33

    That matters to the women who serve, and that we serve. We make it accessible by covering the admission fee, and once they experience it, many return with their family and friends. And we are out of the way. We find some gorgeous parks, and many say to us, the majority say to us, "I've never been here." So they return, and State Bill 190 would remove that barrier and support enhanced wellbeing, physical and mental health. The National Park Service reports that spending 120 minutes per week in nature significantly supports physical and mental wellbeing.

36. 0:20:10

    What does that look like? That's lower stress hormones, reduced blood pressure, improved symptoms of anxiety and depression. So for many veterans, nature is not simply recreation, it's restoration. Nature, nature immersion. Passing this bill also achieves parity at the federal level, which already provides free national park admission. Currently, only four other states, Alabama, New York, Michigan, and Maine, offer park passes.

37. 0:20:43

    Let's let Georgia be a leader in veteran appreciation and holistic wellness by voting yes. I recognize the DNR's concern about lost admissions. I was a finance and accounting officer in the Army for 11 years, but increased visitations leads to spending on shelter rentals, campsites, concessions, and local businesses. Um, the Georgia State Park system generates more than a billion dollar annually in statewide economic impact.

38. 0:21:16

    So now that they've increased and literally doubled admission price in the last year, went from $5 to 10, this number will increase and the veteran offset significantly reduced. Increasing the number of veterans using state parks means an increased economic impact in local communities with simple purchases such as gas, snacks, souvenirs, and goodies, as well as longer stays, lodging, restaurants, and commercial venues. Plus, the whole mental health aspect here.

39. 0:21:46

    If you factor in the potential men- mental health emergency department visits and treatments, this bill could save the state money. In summary, State Bill 190 is fiscally responsible way to promote preventive health, strengthen families, and tangibly honor and show appreciation to those who've served and Gold Star families who sacrifice the most. I respectfully ask for your support. I thank you for your time and attention, and I'm available for any questions.

40. 0:22:18

    Thank you.

41. 0:22:19

    Welcome.

42. 0:22:21

    Good morning, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. I ask you, what is the price of even one more Georgia veteran dying by suicide because they don't have access to healing? How many of you have buried someone you loved because of suicide? My name is Vidia Barnett. I am a disabled US Air Force veteran and the founder of The Vet Space, a Georgia nonprofit dedicated to empowering women veterans through nature-based activities and sisterhood.

43. 0:22:54

    After a life-altering stroke at the age of 47, I fell into severe depression and became suicidal. When I called the Veterans Crisis hotline for the third time, one of the counselors suggested that I get outside, get some fresh air, get some sun. That small act, stepping into nature, interrupted my mental spiral. It gave my body something steady to hold onto when my mind felt like it could no longer survive.

44. 0:23:27

    This is why Senate Bill 190, the Military and Veteran State Park Fee Waiver Act matters. According to the US Department of Veterans Affairs, more than 6,000 veterans die by suicide each year. That is over 17 per day. Veterans face higher suicide rates than the general population, particularly those navigating disability and invisible wounds. There has been discussion about potential fiscal impact of this bill.

45. 0:23:57

    I respectfully ask that you weigh that against the true cost of losing even one more Georgia veteran to suicide. Beyond the immediate tragedy, a single loss carries significant economic consequences, emergency responses, lost family lifetime earnings, and the ripple effects on families and communities. But more importantly, the human cost cannot be measured in dollars. The loss of a parent, spouse, community leader, or a neighbor leaves a void that no budget line on a spreadsheet can capture.

46. 0:24:35

    Research shows that time in nature reduces depression and anxiety, lowers stress hormones, and strengthens protective factors against suicide. For many veterans, like those of you sitting on the committee, access to the outdoors is not just a recreation, it is preventative mental health care. Senate Bill 190 removes cost as a barrier to accessing these healing spaces. It is a modest investment with potentially life-saving returns.

47. 0:25:06

    This is not about politics. This is not about money. It is about wellness, prevention, and honoring those of us who served our country with dignity and respect, including those in the audience as well. I respectfully ask you to vote yes on Senate Bill 190 and to leave it in its, an original form. Thank you for your leadership and your consideration on this bill.

48. 0:25:33

    Okay. Number five?

49. 0:25:37

    Yeah.

50. 0:25:37

    Senator Kirkpatrick.

51. 0:25:38

    Thank you, Senator Wicks, for bringing this. I'm fully supportive, but I do have one question. In reading the definitions and then the language in the bill down on line 41-

52. 0:25:50

    Mm-hmm

53. 0:25:50

    ... um, a- am I to assume that this includes the National Guard?

54. 0:25:55

    Yes.

55. 0:25:56

    Which, I'm a little selfish, I'm in the Defense Force- ... which is part of the National Guard. So I'm just wondering about that. But, um, I'm sure the, the Department of Veterans Services will do a great job of, uh, writing the rules and so on. So thank you very much for bringing the bill.

56. 0:26:12

    Thank you. I appreciate that.

57. 0:26:13

    Any other questions?

58. 0:26:15

    Chair?

59. 0:26:16

    Yes, sir.

60. 0:26:17

    To you. Thank you.

61. 0:26:20

    You're welcome.

62. 0:26:20

    Um, Senator, I've got a couple of questions on this. Apologize, I was a couple minutes late coming in, uh, coming from an 8:00 hearing on another, uh, matter. I'm looking at the Army MWR website. For those in the audience, that's Morale, Welfare, and Recreation. Um,

63. 0:26:39

    I don't see a single campground rec on Eisenhower-Stewart-Robins, um, Lake Allatoona Army Rec Area at Fort McPherson, uh, Hunter Army Airfield. There is a small fee charged, even on our military bases, to active duty, to veterans, et cetera. And it's not to make money, it's just the simple cost of management. It's the simple cost of waste removal.

64. 0:27:12

    Well, you got pump-out stations, you got RVs, you got... Somebody's gotta deal with the stuff, right? Um, and I grew up at Mayport Naval Station in Jacksonville. Um, I have used these services literally my entire life. If we waive this, I mean, if... I know we say that we, we want to say there's no economic impact. There is an economic impact. If the US military bases are charging a small management fee to veterans to use the services on the bases, MWR has to charge some small fee.

65. 0:27:52

    It's, it's not a profit, right? But it, but it is a management cost. Do we know what the management cost is? If, if veterans are already getting a, I think on average about a 25% discount in, in Georgia, um, what is the, um... I- if we're, if we're using state parks and they're already getting a discount, but... You know what I'm saying? Like, we have to know what the economic impact of this is because otherwise DNR parks are gonna have to absorb that cost to handle waste cleanup, handle all these other things.

66. 0:28:36

    So we, we do have to know what that is.

67. 0:28:39

    Do, do we not have a fiscal note on this?

68. 0:28:42

    Ma'am, I would like to address this question.

69. 0:28:44

    Go ahead.

70. 0:28:45

    So I was a brigade administrative officer at Dobbins for the Georgia National Guard, so there's a small number of us that are on active duty to run the whole, um, reserve component. And one of the key reasons that nominal fee is charged, $25 a campsite, is really to prevent people from living there, from staying extended. They call it geo-batching, and there, there are quarters and things set up for that, but people would be, "Oh, I'll take my camper and I'll park," and then they're interrupting recreation for living expenses.

71. 0:29:19

    By raising that price to $25, which came to, like, 750 to someone on 30-days orders, it reduced it and it freed up campsites. And I also like talking about capacity. So minimal costs come into play when you're at capacity. So the park's own study in 2017, it showed that it generated a billion dollars. Those num- economic impact. So those numbers were used to support the price increase of admissions.

72. 0:29:51

    So now fast-forward, let's look at a situation like Bryce Canyon or Mount Zion. When you start getting a facility, a nature, a park at capacity level, that's when you can actually do accurate budgeting, you can put in a reservation system in place, you can surge with security forces and have that access. But until you're at a capacity level, the fees are nominal, and that's what the manforce, manforce studies and powers, and that's how you get, "That's what we need, X amount of people working." So I respect the question, but until we're at capacity, it's not a issue at this point.

73. 0:30:30

    That doesn't answer the question about cost. What, what is... If... And, and if, if we wanna talk about RV sites of veterans using that as- Temporary duty housing, I, I, I don't know that that really a- addresses the, the question respectfully. I mean, it... But I, I mean, I do have to ask. I mean, the, the question becomes, and, and this is really directed to the bill's author, you know, if we're...

74. 0:31:04

    I- i- if our bases that are not Mount Zion, that are not the Grand Tetons, that are not these big, beautiful federal parks, right? We're, we're talking, you know, state parks.

75. 0:31:15

    Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

76. 0:31:17

    And you used the example of we charge a fee to our active duty military to prevent them from using these RV parks for temporary housing. That's not what this is for, but we certainly wouldn't want the unintended consequence of that happening either, and this should be for recreation. It should be for enjoyment. It should be for, you know, encouraging veterans to, to get outside more.

77. 0:31:39

    Or to be on these.

78. 0:31:40

    But if, if, if we don't know what the economic impact is, every bill that we do here has to have some sort of a, a, you know... If, if it is a discount of something, it's an offset. Nobody has ever once suggested that DNR is a, is a money maker, uh, for our state. Um, you know, their, the fees they charge are to, to manage our resources. So do we, do we know how many veterans are using? Do we know how many veterans are not using because the 25% discount's not enough?

79. 0:32:14

    What, what, what does that number look like to you?

80. 0:32:17

    It-

81. 0:32:17

    I'm asking Senator Wicks. Sorry.

82. 0:32:19

    Go ahead. You can answer it.

83. 0:32:22

    Excuse me. Yes, sir. If I may just, uh, to make sure that we're talking about the right content, this 25% discount does not apply to all veterans currently. So what we know is that, um, Georgia has a policy where veterans with a service-related disability of at least 25% redu- receive a discount at Georgia state parks. Only 44% of veterans get their healthcare through the VA where they would get that rating in the first place. So people like myself would not rate that, not because I'm healthy, but just because I don't receive care through the VA.

84. 0:32:55

    And-

85. 0:32:55

    You're at Total and Permanent.

86. 0:32:56

    Correct. So they're permanent. So what, what sets Georgia apart is that even for veterans that have a disability, we do not give them a, any type of, uh, benefit, um, unless they reach a ther- certain threshold. That puts us behind the curve of just, you know, courtesy to the veteran community in many states regardless of a fiscal, uh, implication. Uh, when, when we're talking about the, uh, state parks themselves, again, like I, I, I hear us getting into talks about RV, RVs and other amenities.

87. 0:33:28

    There are other states such as Florida and Alabama who have gone above and beyond and applied the discount to those types of amenities. That's not what we're doing in this case with this bill. All we're doing in this case is talking-

88. 0:33:40

    Okay

89. 0:33:40

    ... about the annual fee and, and the parking fee. So while I would love to entertain those c- other, you know, discounts to encourage people to stay longer, it's like that's a good thing.

90. 0:33:51

    Mm-hmm.

91. 0:33:52

    Uh, right now we're just talking about the annual fees waived at, to, to put us at a, a baseline where people can get to the parks and have basic access.

92. 0:34:00

    Thank you.

93. 0:34:02

    All right. Thank you.

94. 0:34:05

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

95. 0:34:06

    Senator Harbison.

96. 0:34:08

    Senator Wicks, I just wanna take this opportunity to thank you for bringing this forward. Uh, your consistent efforts to make sure that we recognize, continue I should say, recognize our veterans, our National Guard, and people who serve our country, uh, in the various services, including the Marine. I know you were Army, but I'll, I'll recogni- I'll, I'll recognize that. But I have to stay simplified most of the time.

97. 0:34:38

    Sure.

98. 0:34:39

    So there you go. But, but o- on the, as it relates to this bill, let, let me say this very clearly. I think Georgia leads the way. Georgia leads the way in making sure that we try to ramp up what we do to recognize our veterans, and I just wanna commend you for this effort to bring this forward in an attempt to bring us into that area. But frankly, I thought that we were, uh, that we were not charging veterans at all to get in any of the parks. I, I didn't realize. I thought last year we had dealt with this, but apparently it didn't make it all the way through, Mr.

99. 0:35:13

    Chairman.

100. 0:35:14

     I don't know.

101. 0:35:14

     Yeah, but I, but, uh, but anyway, this is something that I think is worthy to take a look at. We can crunch the numbers, but in the final analysis, I wanna make sure that we can push forward in recognizing, whether it's 25%, 50%, uh, whatever we need to do to make it happen. Look, look, there, there are low-ranking people in the military, uh, Private E-1s. They got families. They got children, young people, and things like that. So I wanna make sure that we reach out and embrace them to make sure they understand that they're welcome.

102. 0:35:48

     The families sacrifice a lot to have their soldiers go off, and their Marines go off, their sailors, the airmen go off to, to serve their country. So I wanna make sure that we stay in that tone, and, and Georgia is good about that. Georgia has raised last year, uh, as it relates to your pension, another 35%, so we at 70% now. So I wanna make sure we stay in that tone, and whatever we need to do to forge this forward, uh, find a way to make it happen, and I didn't get a chance to look this up yet, but look this up yet, but, uh, what we need to do, whatever we need to do, I certainly hope we can find a way without putting a, a crushing, fail, uh, kind of system in place to crush our DNR.

103. 0:36:32

     I wanna make sure that we find a way to try to help them, okay?

104. 0:36:34

     And I'm okay with that.

105. 0:36:35

     All right.

106. 0:36:35

     I mean, and that's, and, and I'm trying to figure out, um, this 25%, 35%, um, let's sit down and work together to make it happen. I mean, I don't have a problem with that. And if you look at the bill, it just says, uh, on line 23, "Fees mean a charge of, a charge or a fee established by, uh, the Board of, uh, uh, Natural Resources." So, um, let's sit down and we can work, work through it and go from there. So I don't know-

107. 0:37:04

     Well-

108. 0:37:04

     ... a way, um- Senators-

109. 0:37:08

     And, and like I said, that's why we're having a hearing.

110. 0:37:10

     Yeah, yeah.

111. 0:37:10

     'Cause I, I wa- I wanna-

112. 0:37:11

     So we know what senators feels, you know, how they feel

113. 0:37:12

     ... I live in North Georgia-

114. 0:37:13

     Yeah, exactly

115. 0:37:13

     ... and I can't tell you how many times I use our state parks and, and our... And, and, you know, when my kids were little, after I got out of the military-

116. 0:37:20

     Okay

117. 0:37:20

     ... my kids came along and I said we were always at one of the parks camping, primitive camping, and, you know- ... and, and primitive camping up on Grassy Mountain. And if... That's one of the best-kept secrets in North Georgia, so you didn't hear it from me. But it's- ... it's federal land.

118. 0:37:35

     Mm.

119. 0:37:35

     Um, and it's just, and it's just... But it, it's... You know, they still charge a fee.

120. 0:37:39

     Yes.

121. 0:37:39

     But, uh, it's, but it's, um, just... It was just really respite to me to have that time just to have my kids up there in, in, in what, what I love to call God's country.

122. 0:37:50

     Yeah.

123. 0:37:50

     Um, because Moses went to the mountain, Jesus went to the mountain, so it's gotta be God's country in the mountains.

124. 0:37:55

     Right. Um, but we need to do something for our veterans, and not to do anything is, uh, absurd.

125. 0:38:02

     Senator McLaurin.

126. 0:38:04

     Number 10. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you so much, Senator, for bringing the bill, and thank you to the witnesses and guests today for your testimony. Um, I think that we don't discuss enough how much of an emotional toll the treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress that most veterans find themselves in. I say treatment-resistant because it's one thing to have post-traumatic stress, and it's another thing to not be able to treat it using a wide variety of pharmaceuticals and other interventions that have been tried.

127. 0:38:36

     I'm really proud of this committee because, uh, last year we had a study committee to look into housing and mental health issues for veterans, and one of the recommendations that we made in that committee was to, to dedicate seven figures in the state budget, millions of dollars, to research, not even necessarily the administration of treatments, but research into breakthrough therapies on the hope that it will develop some so- sort of a solution to treatment-resistant post-traumatic stress. And to the lieutenant governor's credit, he put in a million dollars in the budget for the first time in history in Georgia for research into breakthrough therapies, um, for treatment-resistant, uh, post-traumatic stress.

128. 0:39:15

     So that's, that's a seven-figure commitment that this committee has already caused, not, again, not even to treat post-traumatic stress, but to research possible treatments for post-traumatic stress. So when I look at the cost issue, the fiscal impact of this bill, I think a, a number of things. Number one, I think we've already committed a lot more money on the prayer, on the hope that we can do something about veterans' mental health and suicide. Number two, I think, to the comments we've heard earlier, that this fee is set by DNR, and if in the worst-case scenario here, veterans are getting a totally free ride, which I fully support the entire fee waiver, uh, even if that happens and it increased costs for the rest of park attendees, and the fees have to go up for people who aren't veterans, I fully support that.

129. 0:40:04

     And the reason I fully support that is because we so chronically underrate the impact that this post-traumatic stress is already having. And if we, and if we add up those costs, the way that they multiply through society, through ER visits, healthcare costs going up, violence in some cases, I mean, whether it's domestic, self-imposed, violence against others, those costs are innumerable. So again, talking about funding a prayer of a chance that we can solve the mental health crises of veterans- ...

130. 0:40:35

     I couldn't be more on board, uh, for this bill. And I just wanted to say all that, and thank you for being here. I will say if we are in the posture of passing the bill, there is a small cleanup amendment. I don't know who's gonna make it, but, um, to, to give the bill its intended effect. And I can identify it for you now. On line 50-

131. 0:40:53

     Okay

132. 0:40:53

     ... the, the word disabled I don't think should be in the bill, 'cause I, I believe the intent of the author is to remove the restriction that you have a rated disability. And in fact, the disabled veteran definition is struck earlier in the bill, so I think-

133. 0:41:06

     Yeah

134. 0:41:06

     ... that's just a typo. So if we wanted to make an amendment, we would just take out the word disabled from 50, and I think that would give full effect to the bill. But yeah, not to, not, not to be repetitive, but I think, you know, y'all are doing God's work here today, and I think, you know, the, the support we see in the audience and from folks outside just underscores this is really the smallest possible thing we could do for veterans experiencing mental health crisis. So thank you very much.

135. 0:41:29

     Thank you. And then to go back on line 43, it already scratches out the discounted 25%, so it just says waive. But I also wanted to acknowledge to make sure that we, um, make sure that our National Guard is in here. I didn't see that it was or was not, but I wanted to make sure. It does, it is.

136. 0:41:48

     The definition.

137. 0:41:49

     Yeah. It is in, yeah. It is.

138. 0:41:50

     It is in.

139. 0:41:50

     Yeah.

140. 0:41:51

     It is in the definition for-

141. 0:41:52

     Mm-hmm. Yeah. So I wanted to make sure that we honored Space Force and everybody in there. And, and just to piggyback on, um, my fellow colleague, somebody that has 90% PTSD, which I do, and, um, serving 30 years.

142. 0:42:19

     And somebody that

143. 0:42:23

     has seen war three times, combat three times, mental health is important to me.

144. 0:42:33

     And you can't put a, a dollar

145. 0:42:39

     value on veterans.

146. 0:42:46

     And this is why I'm a champion, and been working on this bill for two years with my fellow service members.

147. 0:43:00

     This bill is not about

148. 0:43:08

     a Democrat or a Republican.

149. 0:43:22

     Just take your time, senator

150. 0:43:22

     This bill is about service to our country.

151. 0:43:28

     Senator Wicks, we, we certainly appreciate where you're coming from, and I'm sure the chair and the other members of this, uh, uh, committee understand that and appreciate that in how deep your emotion, our emotions run with this. So it is- it's just we're going through the process, and I don't see anybody who's saying, "No, no, no." They're just trying to fi- find a way forward so we can deal with this in a, in a way that will make it work for everybody, okay?

152. 0:43:57

     And just to add to that-

153. 0:43:58

     Yeah, yeah

154. 0:43:58

     ... you know, there's a reason why this is the only bill we're hearing today 'cause-

155. 0:44:01

     Yes

156. 0:44:02

     ... it's something, it's, it's, it's a bill that n- we need to look at. And, and I just... But I also wanna make sure we get it right, so.

157. 0:44:08

     So I wanna thank you so much to my colleagues and to Chairman, and to the dean, of course, 'cause, you know, we battle the m- uh, our, um... Of course, the Army is only one branch. The Army is the best. Um, but I just wanna say thank you all for just hearing these bills and hearing our, uh, fellow co- uh, fellow service members, for just hearing it. I just wanna make sure that it's right, and that we, we scratch out what is not conducive to making sure that it's implemented for over the 700,000 veterans or Gold Star family members.

158. 0:44:43

     And just active duty, National Guard, but whatever we can do to make this move forward and just working together, um, but we just can't put a price tag on, on our freedom. Thank you.

159. 0:44:56

     Thank you, Senator Le- and I appreciate you presenting this bill.

160. 0:45:00

     Steel.

161. 0:45:01

     Uh, w- we've got one pr- we've got one signed up to speak to this, and, and I asked DNR just to come be here.

162. 0:45:08

     Okay, take your time.

163. 0:45:09

     And I have, uh, Trevor Santos from DNR who's going... Um, you, you wanna just come to the podium, or you can come, have a seat.

164. 0:45:18

     But listen, y'all need him here.

165. 0:45:21

     Yeah.

166. 0:45:21

     Good morning, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee. My name is Trevor Santos, serve as deputy commissioner with the Georgia Department of Natural Resources. Here to answer any questions, but did wanna provide, uh, just a little bit of information. So, uh, within our state parks and historic sites division, we operate more than 60 properties throughout the state. That is anywhere from just your standard state park to historic, uh, sites, golf courses. We've got different partner facilities. Um, and then just as a bit of background on, uh, some of the fees that are, and discounts that are currently offered.

167. 0:45:54

     Uh, as was mentioned earlier, last year, uh, the Board of Natural Resources did vote to double the c- the price of the parking pass for our state parks. That was the first time in 16 years that that fee had seen an increase. It went from $5 to $10. Again, last time was 2009. I think we can all agree that, uh, the price to do business and the cost of goods has significantly increased since that time. Um, so again, t- in order to continue to provide the best positive visitor experience, we saw the need to increase those price, those prices.

168. 0:46:28

     But in doing so, we maintained a discount for active duty military and veterans. So the cost for, uh, active duty or veterans, and not just disabled veterans, for all veterans, the discount is 25%, so they are paying $7.50 for an annual day park pass. That is not just for one individual, that's for an entire vehicle. If they wanted to purchase an annual pass, it's $52.50. Again, not for an individual, but for an entire vehicle to go enjoy one of our state parks for a day.

169. 0:47:00

     Now, when it comes to the disabled veteran language, that is in statute. That is a 25% discount that is offered for cottages, campsites, RV sites, and I believe golf and, and other recreational, uh, opportunities. That right now is extended at 25%. If you are a senior over 62, that is stackable, so it's an extra 20% discount. Um, so you're looking at a 45% discount for a senior disabled veteran to enjoy a cottage, campsite, RV site, golf at one of our state parks.

170. 0:47:36

     Happy to answer any questions that y'all may have.

171. 0:47:38

     Any questions, committee?

172. 0:47:42

     Go ahead.

173. 0:47:43

     Hey, good morning. Good morning. Thank you so much. Um, I've got a quick question. So with the, the numbers that you just gave, do you... Does the DNR actually keep record of, um, how many individuals they give a discount to th- uh, throughout the year, uh, in regards to our veterans and/or, uh, the actual dollar amount?

174. 0:47:59

     So based on the records that we do have, uh, we estimate 20% of our daily park passes, um, are discounted for veterans and active duty military, and about 10% of the annual passes, uh, are discounted for active duty and veterans.

175. 0:48:18

     Okay, quick follow-up. When it comes to your cabins and cottages and things of that nature, do you have any records as far as how many veterans have been u- lu- utilizing those over the past year and/or how much of a monetary discount that comes to?

176. 0:48:29

     I don't have those numbers-

177. 0:48:30

     Okay

178. 0:48:30

     ... but can certainly follow up with you.

179. 0:48:32

     Okay.

180. 0:48:36

     Okay. Come on. Senator Wicks.

181. 0:48:38

     Um, how much does a E-3 make?

182. 0:48:40

     Excuse me?

183. 0:48:41

     How much does a E-3 make?

184. 0:48:43

     I, I-

185. 0:48:43

     A private first class

186. 0:48:44

     ... I do not know. You would probably m- be more familiar than I.

187. 0:48:48

     But that's too high. It's too high. That, that... And that's the point that we... I'm not gonna go back and forth, but that's the point that we're trying to make, that these lower enlisted service members don't make and compensate in reference to, uh, what the gentleman is saying. That was the... And that's the reason why we wanted to put this bill in place, because when you have a private first class or a PV2, they don't make enough money to sustain, um, in reference to, uh, what, um, what the gentleman is saying, and that was the reason why we wanted to implement this bill.

188. 0:49:19

     Okay. Thank you.

189. 0:49:21

     So I've got a quick, couple quick follow-ups. So, and it, and this may vary park to park, um, what is the average cost per night for a campsite, and what's the average cost per night for one of your cottages?

190. 0:49:33

     So a campsite can be anywhere from $30 to $50 for an RV campsite. The primitive campsites are much less than that. And then for a cottage, it can be anywhere from $100 to $250, depending on the size of the cottage, the location. Um, we've got some properties that are a little bit more expensive. Uh, and our cottages can range anywhere from one to four bedrooms.

191. 0:49:56

     Okay. Thank you so much.

192. 0:49:57

     Mm-hmm.

193. 0:49:57

     Mr. Chair, one, one more.

194. 0:49:59

     Sure.

195. 0:49:59

     How does this compare to federal, uh, national parks, or is this a combination? Are our parks in com- combined, federal and national, or how does that work? Can you give me an idea of the-

196. 0:50:11

     No, sir. Our, our parks are completely separate.

197. 0:50:14

     Okay.

198. 0:50:14

     Um, with our 60-plus properties in the state, they encompass about 88,000 acres. Um, we're almost at 100 years with our parks system. We've got a lot of deferred maintenance. Any money that is coming into the parks, um, revenue-wise, is, is being, uh-

199. 0:50:31

     Being pumped back in

200. 0:50:32

     ... being pumped right back into the parks-

201. 0:50:33

     Mm-hmm

202. 0:50:34

     ... from maintenance to enhancements. Uh, again, we wanna continue to provide the best possible experience. We're proud of the properties that we have. Uh, I feel and, and we feel that we have the best state park system in the country. Um, but again, it, it requires ongoing maintenance.

203. 0:50:50

     Right. Sure.

204. 0:50:51

     Um, and again, we have only one dedicated piece of funding for that maintenance, and that is the revenue from our park passes, which right now is about $7 million per year, and that's going right back into the parks to make sure that they can be the best that they possibly can.

205. 0:51:06

     Are we meeting that threshold?

206. 0:51:08

     Sir?

207. 0:51:09

     Are, are we meeting that? Does that balance out? Are you ahead of the game in that regard? And secondly, can... Uh, what is the cost for visiting a national park as an exam- compared to what our prices are for our state parks?

208. 0:51:24

     I, I-

209. 0:51:24

     You got a rough idea on one-

210. 0:51:25

     I don't have the national park number

211. 0:51:27

     ... in the category?

212. 0:51:27

     I can tell you that the south, other southeastern states, um, we provide a b- a better value than a lot of our neighbors do. Um, and it varies across the board. Uh, so in Florida it may depend on which state park you're going to and the cost you're gonna pay, and it may be paid per individual. Whereas in Georgia, if you were to go to Vogel State Park and pay, um, as a non-military or non-veteran, that $10, you could then go to Unicoi using that same pass in the same day.

213. 0:51:58

     So it's a one-day pass, good at any park that you may visit, and same goes for that annual pass.

214. 0:52:04

     Yeah, and one more question, Mr. Chair, uh, if I may. Uh, so if I visited the park, would I have to show a Purple Heart, my Purple... Something like that, or, or ID of veteran's, a card or something?

215. 0:52:16

     So, so the... Yes, sir. There would be some sort of identification that, that you would need to show, um, in order to receive that discount. And, and even a little bit further, uh, with receiving the discount for the disabled veterans on the, the cottage rental, the campsite rental, um, there is a requirement to go through the Department of Veterans Affairs to get that information that you would then provide to our agency.

216. 0:52:38

     Thank you, sir.

217. 0:52:39

     Yes, sir.

218. 0:52:39

     Mm-hmm.

219. 0:52:42

     Any further questions of DNR? Thank you, sir.

220. 0:52:47

     Thank you.

221. 0:52:47

     Appreciate you being here.

222. 0:52:49

     Absolutely.

223. 0:52:54

     Uh, Senator Anderson, did you ha- you had... I think you had a question a moment ago.

224. 0:53:02

     No.

225. 0:53:03

     Okay.

226. 0:53:06

     All right. Um-

227. 0:53:08

     I just have a regular question. Are we, um, uh, taking a vote on this today?

228. 0:53:12

     I plan to.

229. 0:53:15

     Okay.

230. 0:53:15

     Uh-

231. 0:53:15

     I move we make a motion.

232. 0:53:16

     I'll second.

233. 0:53:18

     Okay, I have a motion and a second. Any further discussion?

234. 0:53:22

     Isn't there an amendment? Isn't there, isn't there an amendment?

235. 0:53:25

     We do have an amendment.

236. 0:53:26

     Yes, yes. We'll come back to the amendment. I got a motion and a second. Senator Still.

237. 0:53:32

     Just asking if the chair would, um, talk to OPB about doing an economic impact, ju- just so that we know, right? We, we do need to know, because I think that a lot of great questions have been asked, and it'll come out at some point, so probably good at the beginning stage of this if this bill does pass, which I suspect it will. If, if we can just know that, because that, that will hang it up later if we don't get that answered early.

238. 0:54:04

     So if the chair would-

239. 0:54:05

     No, that, that is a good point

240. 0:54:05

     ... make that request.

241. 0:54:06

     I'm sorry, what? An impact study?

242. 0:54:09

     The economic impact. We have to know a fiscal note-

243. 0:54:12

     Write the fiscal note

244. 0:54:12

     ... and what this will cost.

245. 0:54:14

     Oh, okay.

246. 0:54:14

     If you don't have that-

247. 0:54:15

     All right

248. 0:54:15

     ... it will get hung up.

249. 0:54:17

     What-

250. 0:54:17

     Can you... And, and then I have a, a-

251. 0:54:22

     Yes.

252. 0:54:22

     I have another thing, too, in reference to, um, uh, 66% of the veteran population is not included due to the fact that some of the veterans do not, uh, you know, go to the VA for care. So some of those numbers are not included in, um, in, um, the gentleman's, uh, numbers. Just so that's, that's pointed out, too.

253. 0:54:48

     Well, I also, but I also wanna make sure that we're doing the right thing-

254. 0:54:51

     No, no, no

255. 0:54:51

     ... fiscally-

256. 0:54:51

     Yeah, yeah

257. 0:54:52

     ... and we're not putting DA, DNR-

258. 0:54:53

     Yeah

259. 0:54:53

     ... 'cause I mean, we all remember 2020 when COVID hit, how our, our, our state parks were just slammed, overrun from people coming from all over the country to stay at our state parks, and there's a reason for that, 'cause we by far were famous for having the best state parks in the nat- in the southeast, certainly.

260. 0:55:11

     Mm-hmm.

261. 0:55:12

     Um, so I wanna make sure that we're doing this in responsible ways. So I mean-

262. 0:55:15

     Oh, yeah

263. 0:55:16

     ... even, even if, you know, I promise you, Senator Wicks, even if we don't... Uh, 'cause I would like to have a fiscal note on this to find out what the expense of this is going to be before we make a, uh, uh, take a- ... vote on the bill, the underlying bill, 'cause I think that that's just, we need to make sure we're doing the right thing, not only because, like I said, I know DNR operates on a very taut budget for as far as expenses and money going right back into our state parks that keeps us, our state parks the best in the nation.

264. 0:55:46

     So, um, it, so, Senator Anderson, did you have-

265. 0:55:52

     Yeah, I, let m- I'm number four. My, my mic. It's number four, thank you. Um, how long will it take to get a fiscal note?

266. 0:56:04

     Uh, that would be, the fiscal office wouldn't take long.

267. 0:56:07

     Okay.

268. 0:56:07

     I wouldn't anticipate.

269. 0:56:08

     So when can we- There's time for another meeting. Yes. When can we have another meeting- There's time for another meeting ... to vote on this?

270. 0:56:13

     Yeah.

271. 0:56:13

     There's time for another meeting. Okay.

272. 0:56:15

     Yeah.

273. 0:56:16

     And I, and I say that because everybody has not served. People, and everyone has not raised their hand. And the fact that we can still enjoy, someone was serving, now they're a veteran. Someone is serving, they'll soon be a veteran. Next generation serving, there will be veterans coming forever because we will enjoy, continue to enjoy what we enjoy now in the United States. People move here because they have to fight where they are. They move here because we have the best armed forces, and we need to, um, be very careful how we either do or don't support.

274. 0:57:02

     Um, because it i- it is a continual cycle of serving and then a veteran, serving and then a veteran. It's a continual cycle of peace. It's a continual cycle of, of, of, of, um, benefits that we enjoy daily, and I know you understand 'cause you're a veteran. But we should not, um,

275. 0:57:23

     we should not overlook or not come back and, and, and act on this in a way that is beneficial and rewarding for those who have allowed us, including me, to be in this space in the United States where there's peace and quiet. And that's all I'm gonna say, and I'm gonna leave that to meditate, that to meditate my job. Day and night.

276. 0:57:45

     Thank you, Senator.

277. 0:57:46

     Mm-hmm.

278. 0:57:46

     Um, is there anyone here from the fiscal office? Okay. Well, um-

279. 0:57:53

     You'll just have to request one.

280. 0:57:54

     Yeah. I think what we'll do is I'll bring this bill first to the top of our next meeting, and, but I would like to talk to the fiscal office and just get an idea of the, of the, of the annual cost of this, of, and, and before we make a decision because I want to make sure that we're not, I don't want to leave DNR in a hole. That's m- that's my m- main focus right now because, like I said, we have by far the best state parks in the Southeast, if not the nation, because they do invest that money right back in to...

281. 0:58:26

     I want to make sure that we ma- doing this, we ma- we continue to be the best state parks in the nation, so.

282. 0:58:33

     We can find the money, Mr. Chairman. We can find it. We can research, and research is a whole lot, a whole lot of something and nothing.

283. 0:58:42

     Okay.

284. 0:58:42

     So we can find the money. And I think we-

285. 0:58:45

     But I, I, I, I do want-

286. 0:58:45

     ... the veterans desi-

287. 0:58:46

     Well, and I do want to thank the committee.

288. 0:58:47

     I, I hear you.

289. 0:58:47

     I thank everyone in this committee.

290. 0:58:48

     Mm-hmm.

291. 0:58:48

     Would love to make sure that we're doing th- we can do this, but we want to make sure we're also doing it in a responsible manner.

292. 0:58:53

     Mr. Chairman. If, if you're gonna speak for everybody, I mean, I just, I'm, I'm a little bit stunned, I guess. I think, you know, and, and I appreciate the committee wants to be careful. I just, I, I have a hard time thinking that there are veterans who are watching this who are not gonna ask the question why this level of scrutiny is being applied to a handful of dollars that veterans are paying for state park access. I mean, we pass 100 bills per year-

293. 0:59:18

     Mm-hmm

294. 0:59:19

     ... that don't have a fiscal note, that have the, uh, fiscal impact in the seven, eight, nine figures. And, you know, I, I get that the committee wants to be careful, the committee does, but I, I don't, I don't think it's accurate to say that everybody on the committee wants to wait for a fiscal note to do this.

295. 0:59:34

     That's your opinion.

296. 0:59:34

     That's the only, that's-

297. 0:59:34

     I didn't say that.

298. 0:59:35

     Okay.

299. 0:59:35

     I said everybody wants to do what's best for our veterans.

300. 0:59:37

     And I, and that, that I agree with, Mr. Chairman. I just, I-

301. 0:59:39

     Well, that's what I said.

302. 0:59:40

     Okay. I apologize.

303. 0:59:41

     Let's, let's be best-

304. 0:59:42

     I, I misheard.

305. 0:59:42

     And best

306. 0:59:42

     ... I misheard you.

307. 0:59:43

     Let's be better and best.

308. 0:59:44

     All right. Thank you.

309. 0:59:46

     And, and then I just have one more. I'm just trying to figure out how we can do an assessment when a lot of the veterans don't use the VA services, so how are we gonna implement those numbers into that figure that, that he is speaking on?

310. 0:59:58

     Well, the, the fiscal note would basically look at what would be the anticipated cost if we do this. And then that, they can, from that, we can, just based on the numbers as they are today-

311. 1:00:08

     Mm-hmm

312. 1:00:09

     ... and then we can know whether, you know, the, make sure that we're... 'Cause if we need to fund DNR more so that we can do this, we need to make sure, but I don't want to put DNR, because they are, literally are, do, in a very tight bring money in, but they also keep us the best state, state parks and facilities in the, in the Southeast, if not the nation. So I would just want to make sure we're keep, we're gonna maintain that top... Y- yes, sir.

313. 1:00:32

     With the surplus, we have enough.

314. 1:00:34

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I've got one additional question for the DNR, for the gentleman, if you don't mind please, sir.

315. 1:00:38

     Mm-hmm.

316. 1:00:40

     So, thank you so much. So whenever it comes to your reservations now, when it comes to campsites, RV sites, and the cabins, um, I'm assuming that that's all booked online, uh, via online?

317. 1:00:50

     Yes, sir. That's correct.

318. 1:00:51

     Okay. Is there a limitation on how many days at a time that one reservation can take up? Is it limited to five days, 30 days, 14 days?

319. 1:00:59

     For- 14 days.

320. 1:00:59

     14 days.

321. 1:01:00

     Yes, sir.

322. 1:01:00

     Okay. All right. Thank you, sir.

323. 1:01:02

     Mm-hmm.

324. 1:01:06

     All right. Um, so I will just go ahead, and we've already got a motion and a second on this. Um, so but at this point I think we'll hold this bill and c- bring, come back, first bill when we come back for our next meeting, and we'll see, and we'll go from there and see. We'll maybe get an update with the fiscal analysis, and then we'll, we'll make a decis- make the best decision, not only for our veterans, but also for our state and our park system. So having no other business on the agenda, I will call this meeting adjourned. Thank you.