Comité Higher Education de la Cámara de Representantes, 2 de marzo de 2026

Transcripción

302 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:26:14

   All right, good afternoon, everyone. If we could go ahead and, uh, get settled in, uh, we will, um, shortly call this meeting of the Higher Education Committee of the House, Georgia House to order. Um,

2. 0:26:28

   Mr. Baskerville, would you get the door for us maybe?

3. 0:26:40

   Had to keep us from biting here.

4. 0:26:42

   Oh, my. Oh.

5. 0:26:45

   Good afternoon, everyone. I'm gonna go ahead and call this meeting then of the House Higher Education, uh, Committee to order today. We have, uh, a number of items on the agenda, um, including, uh, House Bill 1363, uh, 1379, and House Bill 1413. Uh, what I'd like to do is there's a lot of things going around as, as this is crossover week. What I would like to suggest we do is, um, we have two substitutes for the, uh, well, there are substitutes for all three bills that you should have received, uh, PDFs on, and they are now in your folder.

6. 0:27:19

   But on both the bills that we've heard before, HB 1363 and 1379, um, hear our presentations on those bills. Those would be available for action if the, um, the committee's ready. But we'll, we'll carry those forward, um, and, and give those, uh, time to, for you to continue to work on those. And then I will present 1413, and then we would come back if, um, we're ready to move on, on any other of the items. So with that, I think, uh, in our batting order, uh, this afternoon, we'll, uh, call Representative Houston Gaines from the 120th to tell us about his substitute to HB 1379.

7. 0:27:57

   And, and Representative Gaines, when you come, if you'll tell us, uh, the LC you're working for so we're all on the same page.

8. 0:28:07

   Sure thing. And, uh, as, uh, Representative Panitch is gonna be up next to me, if that, if that's okay. Uh, LC 610442S. And, uh, Mr. Chairman, I will be brief. We, uh, talked about this quite a bit on Thursday, but based on the committee's, uh, feedback and suggestions and working on this over the weekend, we have, uh, basically four main changes. Uh, the, the first one begins on line 23, which, uh, this pares down the legislation to no longer apply to every single country in the world.

9. 0:28:42

   Instead, it applies to, um, as Representative Fleming's bill did last year, foreign adversaries. Uh, but then on line 27 to 30, countries of particular concern, which includes countries like Burma, Cuba, Russia, Iran, Pakistan. Lines 31 to 34, which is special watchlist countries, that includes countries like Vietnam and Algeria. Lines 35 to 37 includes countries that have a sovereign wealth fund, uh, like Qatar.

10. 0:29:12

    So that, uh, is that change. On line 70, this only applies to, uh, monies over $10,000, uh, given because it's our belief that if they're influencing, um, in a negative way, it's gonna be at least $10,000. And that's if, if they gave nine- $9,999 twice, they would, they would be captured under this 'cause they're going over 10,000 annually. Also, based on what the committee suggested on line 73, we took it to annual instead of semi-annual to match Representative Fleming's bill.

11. 0:29:47

    And also to repres- uh, to match Representative Fleming's bill, line 100 through 102 would require, uh, reports provided to the House and Senate. And those are the changes.

12. 0:30:05

    You have a couple of questions. Um, representative number 9, is that, uh, Whitport?

13. 0:30:12

    Yes.

14. 0:30:12

    Yes, sir. You're recognized for questions.

15. 0:30:13

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, so what does this bill do that Rep Tim Fleming's bill does not do?

16. 0:30:20

    Um, the main thing is it adds a, a number of countries of concern that would be required for reporting purposes.

17. 0:30:28

    Okay.

18. 0:30:28

    And it applies to K through 12 and TCSG.

19. 0:30:31

    And, and, um, TCSG, USG, uh, the Public School Board Association, uh, where are they on this bill now, that your updated substitute?

20. 0:30:40

    I have not heard from them.

21. 0:30:43

    So, so I, I would be concerned if, uh, again, since we passed a very similar bill last year, you know, whether or not this would cause confusion or a- additional administrative burden. Um, you know, would you be able to reach out and provide us some sort of update before this bill moves forward?

22. 0:30:59

    A- And, uh, I, I say I've not heard back. I've, I've been, I've talked some with the university system. I don't wanna speak for them. But some of the tweaks that we made so that it doesn't, uh, become overburdensome is, is what we have here before you today, where it only applies to countries that we feel like are, uh, countries that are potentially trying to have an influence on curriculum and those sort of things, and by, uh, adding it to only $10,000 and above. Um, so we have incorporated those suggestions.

23. 0:31:27

    I, I appreciate you amending the bill, but if you could for- get a clear answer, uh, of, of where these other organizations who would have to implement these requirements would be, that would be very helpful.

24. 0:31:37

    Sure. Well, and, um, like I said, I've been in conversation to- with them. You're more than welcome to reach out to them as well.

25. 0:31:42

    Thank you.

26. 0:31:47

    Do you have some mirror from microphone one?

27. 0:31:50

    Uh, I don't know which microphone it is.

28. 0:31:52

    That one with the microphone.

29. 0:31:54

    It's, it's just not.

30. 0:32:00

    Oh.

31. 0:32:00

    Here.

32. 0:32:00

    Okay. Perfect.

33. 0:32:02

    You're recognized.

34. 0:32:02

    Um, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you for, uh- Some of, of these, uh, changes after the last, um, hearing. Uh, my question, uh, comes from the section that you all changed where with the foreign country of concern. Um, how much overlap is there between each of these? And for example, is there going to be a actual list that will be provided for ... Because some of these are written in a way that it sounds like it's very specific, but we're not naming actual countries.

35. 0:32:39

    So like for example, subsection D, like, how are we just gonna make sure that these schools know specifically which countries we're referring to because they're not already on some type of watch list like an A, B, and C?

36. 0:32:53

    Um, one, one potential idea, and I, I think it's, uh, maybe not a bad one, is have the Department of Audits before they, since that's who they're reporting this to, is, is compile the list based on the, the criteria in the legislation. Um, but these are set dates of what, what, what countries would be on each of these lists. Um, so, m- but I do see your point, and I think that's fair that maybe there's a, maybe there's a path to trying to have a clear list provided.

37. 0:33:18

    Thank you.

38. 0:33:22

    Are there fu- further questions for the gentleman? Um, we, we are trying to move along this afternoon, but, um, there, um, were significant changes to the bills that's new. Is, is there anybody in the audience that, uh, would wish to comment on that? I don't know if, I don't wanna put anybody on their, uh, on their toes from the ui- university system or TCSG, but, um, does anybody care to comment?

39. 0:33:50

    I'm, I'm

40. 0:33:51

    All right.

41. 0:33:52

    No, I don't. No.

42. 0:33:53

    Well, let me come back then. We don't have, no one, uh, wishes to speak to this, so I'll come back to the members. You had a question, yes, ma'am?

43. 0:34:01

    Yes.

44. 0:34:01

    What, question?

45. 0:34:02

    I don't see how it fits.

46. 0:34:04

    Number.

47. 0:34:04

    I think you said it would fit.

48. 0:34:04

    I'm gonna try to-

49. 0:34:06

    You have to have your mic on.

50. 0:34:08

    Thank you.

51. 0:34:08

    Yes. Yes, you do.

52. 0:34:09

    All right. Uh, maybe I did not hear you, uh, right, but one of the things that I was concerned about when we started talking about countries, oh, okay, countries and what have you, where I, I, I did not see any listing of, of, um, African nations or what have you as being a part of, of this. Um, that was something that I was worried about over the weekend. And so, uh, have we included other countries as well as in this, or made a presentation to them or what have you, and let them make a choice if they would like to be a part of this?

53. 0:34:56

    Mm-hmm.

54. 0:34:58

    These people come by after the 11:00 meeting. I don't think we have anybody that wants to volunteer to be on this list. This is like the naughty list.

55. 0:35:07

    The naughty?

56. 0:35:08

    This is the naughty list. This isn't like the team.

57. 0:35:12

    Well, we got some, we got some straight up African nations, too.

58. 0:35:17

    Well, I mean, and they may fit into these, these categories.

59. 0:35:19

    Okay.

60. 0:35:20

    Is that your question?

61. 0:35:21

    That was my question.

62. 0:35:22

    Okay.

63. 0:35:22

    But I, but I also want to make sure that we make an effort to try and let's talk about it, because we didn't get it. Well, I didn't see any in this.

64. 0:35:36

    Yes, um, I, I, I think m- I think, um, Representative Gaines, um, and I, I misconstrued the lady's question. I apologize for that. Uh, she was asking th- that there are some nations that might be in Sub-Saharan, in, in, you know, Africa and, um, countries that, that could be, they could fit in these categories. Do you know of any particular country that might? But, I mean, they would all be, be considered if they fit the, the description, yes?

65. 0:36:03

    That's, that's right. I mean, the, the, like, uh, list of countries of particular concern, uh, there, there's, I want to say about 15 countries that includes, but some examples are Burma, China, Cuba, Iran, Russia, Pakistan. Um, and then the special watch list, Algeria, Vietnam. There's about five on that list, uh, as well.

66. 0:36:22

    Thank you.

67. 0:36:23

    So in total, I want to say it's about 20 countries or so.

68. 0:36:26

    Thank you. Are there any other questions? If not, um, Representative Gaines, we're gonna, we're gonna hold, as I mentioned, we're gonna hold this over. Did you, uh, Representative Panitch, did you have anything you wanted to add? Are you, uh, there to, to back him up if he-

69. 0:36:41

    Just here for backup.

70. 0:36:42

    Okay. Um, well, we, we don't have any further questions, so we'll, we'll hold this, uh, over while we, uh, get the next presentation and the presentation of 1413, and then we'll see if the, um, committee is ready for action later on today. And, um, if, um, you have anything, you can, um, maybe send the chair, uh, relative to, um, TCSG and USG. I know the inquiries that, um, I had from them, you have addressed most of those in your changes. They were worried about the, um, if you will, first dollar to, to be reported.

71. 0:37:13

    Right.

72. 0:37:13

    And you've done that with 10,000. They were also worried about every country, and you've limited those countries. Those, those were the two main questions, but perhaps you can get some of that information for us as we're-

73. 0:37:22

    We will

74. 0:37:22

    ... as we're waiting.

75. 0:37:23

    We will.

76. 0:37:23

    Okay. With that, we'll move, we'll move-

77. 0:37:25

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman

78. 0:37:25

    ... we'll move on. If there, there's, uh, no further questions, uh, when without objection, we'll move on to, uh, our substitute for House Bill 1363. Um, House Bill 1363, um, Chair Lady Silcox, I, I'm coming. While you're coming, I'm working off LC 650083S. Is that what you have?

79. 0:37:47

    That's correct, Mr. Chairman.

80. 0:37:48

    Yes.

81. 0:37:48

    Thank you very much.

82. 0:37:49

    Yes, ma'am. Tell us about your, uh, proposition and the changes that you've made.

83. 0:37:53

    We so appreciate the committee's, um, so much testimony and input on this bill, and we have removed all references to, to the word antisemitism, so those have all been removed. Um, in addition to that, we, um, at the suggestion of a lot of the testimony, we basically added in section two, um, really starting at the top of page three- Um, just a basic policies and procedures, um, that they would follow. And this mirrors the language in section three that was provided by USG in terms of being parallel with their policies and procedures.

84. 0:38:32

    So those are the changes, and, um, I'm very excited about the prospect of having a K through 12 Title VI coordinator so that, um, none of our students in any of our K through 12 schools are discriminated against, um, on the basis of, you know, certainly race, religion, um, ethnicity, or national origin.

85. 0:39:04

    That conclude your-

86. 0:39:05

    Yes, sir

87. 0:39:05

    ... thoughts on it for now?

88. 0:39:06

    Thank you.

89. 0:39:06

    Yes, ma'am. Um, you have a question, uh, Dr. Clark? You're still down there at number one.

90. 0:39:11

    Yes.

91. 0:39:11

    Yes. Um, thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you so much, Ms. Bill. I, I really truly do love the idea of bringing civil rights protections to the state level, um, especially in education and, and protecting our students against discrimination. So I wanna start off by saying that. My question actually is on lines 81 through 84, um, we allow for public K through 12 schools that are basically, um, told they're going to lose state funding, um, if they don't, um, you know, comply with what the Department of Education asks of them to do.

92. 0:39:48

    But, um, in 81 through 84, we give the public schools an opportunity to, uh, bring a right of action against the board to superior court.

93. 0:39:59

    Correct.

94. 0:40:00

    Um, I, for whatever reason, and maybe I'm just completely missing, and that's very possible, I don't see a similar, um, right of action available to USG and TCSG. Is there a reason why we're only giving that to K through 12 and not giving our universities and tech schools an opportunity?

95. 0:40:21

    Well, because this is a more local matter. Um, uh, I think that the reason for this is, uh, because all of these claims will typically go to federal court. Um, but this is giving the K through 12 people another venue locally to try to resolve this before going to federal court.

96. 0:40:38

    Okay. But we don't want to give our universities, like, a local-

97. 0:40:42

    Well, I th- I just think they're working on a higher level already because they deal with so many more federal funding issues.

98. 0:40:48

    Thank you.

99. 0:40:49

    Yeah, and D- Dr., if I might, if, um, I might hop-

100. 0:40:52

     Of course

101. 0:40:54

     ... be part of your conversation here. I think the, the, s- the local school systems are, are governed by a local board that may have a, a different, uh, view o- of how they're handling this. The, the TCSG and the university system, um, TCSG directly, because they're not constitutionally separated, but the university system, while they are, are, are a single group running, run at the, a, a single point, the state level. And, and, and so we would, essentially, we're making this as a state, state body and, and instructing them to do this.

102. 0:41:26

     The, I think giving the locals who are in 159 counties and independent school systems a, an action if they felt like they are, um, being, you know, unjustly, uh, accused of not following and so forth, I mean, giving them, uh-

103. 0:41:42

     A local option

104. 0:41:42

     ... an, yeah, giving them-

105. 0:41:43

     Absolutely

106. 0:41:44

     ... a local avenue-

107. 0:41:44

     Mm-hmm

108. 0:41:44

     ... in the court is probably more important, where at the state level, we'd be a, a bit, a one state organization would be litigating against another, which is not unheard of in this, uh, state lately, by the way. But, um, I, I think that's probably the differentiation. But you bring a good point if, if the university system or TCSG thinks they, uh, need some reason. I don't know who they would litigate against, um-

109. 0:42:07

     Right

110. 0:42:07

     ... in the-

111. 0:42:07

     Well, and y- and they take students from all over the state and all over the country, so it's a whole, it's just a different population. This is really, uh, local to me versus university level.

112. 0:42:17

     Can I just-

113. 0:42:17

     Y- yes, ma'am. Please continue. Yes. Continue with this.

114. 0:42:20

     So I hear what y'all are saying, and I guess the, the question I'm asking is, at the K through 12 level, if they don't agree, they do have a way of saying, "I don't agree with that. I would like to take this to superior court." And I guess my question is, if a school in the university system says, "I do not agree with this," but the Board of Regents or, um, whomever, uh... Yeah, so the Board of Regents is being allowed to take corrective action. If the school says, "I do think that we fixed the issue," or, "I, I, I don't agree with this and I don't think we should lose our state funds," who is the person that they, at the state level, that they can say, "No, I disagree with y'all's findings and I, and I..." Like, who is the person?

115. 0:43:07

     I, I, I would... And I have somebody from TCSG. I don't know if we have USG here. But I think in, in, uh, you bring it, br- bring up a good point. But in, in the lines of the code that, to which you're referring, it's the state board telling a school system. In the, in the, in the USG system, it is the, the U- the, the system office telling the school system. The, the president of, you pick a university, I'm not gonna pick on anybody 'cause I, I don't have a, a president in mind. He, he works for the chancellor and the, the Board of Regents. If your boss says you're not doing it right, y- you, you have a, um, th- there's a management structure within that.

116. 0:43:46

     Nobody at the Board of Education of Dooly County or Fulton County or Gwinnett County has a direct line that they report to anybody at the State Board of Education, and thus, I believe that's the reason for the cause of action. But again, if you're not comfortable with that, we, we can continue, you know, we can continue to talk about that and work around it, 'cause it, it's a fair, it's a fair point.

117. 0:44:05

     I just wanna make sure that we have an appeal process for every school that might get corrective action. I want... My point is that- I wanna fight for students who or, you know, who have been discriminated against or feel they have been discriminated against. But I also want to make sure that these schools, um, if they are at jeopardy of losing funding, that they at least have some type of appeal process, and I see a very clear one for K through 12, and I don't see a clear one for USG and TCSG.

118. 0:44:36

     That's the concern.

119. 0:44:37

     And, and I think that what the chairman's trying to say is because constitutionally the State Board of Education and the schools are governed by the legislature, whereas the university system and the, um, technical colleges are governed by the Board of Regents. And so since we have different bosses that we answer to, that's why it doesn't mirror exactly.

120. 0:45:02

     All right.

121. 0:45:02

     But they both have an avenue for appeal, for sure.

122. 0:45:06

     Got it. I, I think that's where I was unclear on what the avenue was-

123. 0:45:09

     Thank you

124. 0:45:10

     ... for USG and TCSG.

125. 0:45:12

     Um, let me go in order here. Whip Bart, number nine.

126. 0:45:21

     There we go.

127. 0:45:21

     There you go.

128. 0:45:22

     Does that work? Thank you again, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Representative Silcox or Chair Lady Silcox, uh, thank you for, um, taking into n- uh, taking into consideration the feedback provided from, uh, the committee members. Um, I, I certainly appreciate, uh, the amendments made to the bill. Um, with respect to implementation along the lines of Representative Clark, um, will there be any... Uh, j- just to clarify, this only applies to K through 12, not to USG and TCSG anymore.

129. 0:45:51

     Well, section three applies to USG.

130. 0:45:54

     Thank you.

131. 0:45:55

     Section two applies to K through 12.

132. 0:45:57

     So with respect to section three, given that USG and TCSG already have this process or something similar to it, um, on the books, um, how will this interplay with existing law to ensure there isn't, um, confusion or, you know, additional administrative burdens that may result in a student who's discriminated from receiving justice in a timely manner?

133. 0:46:22

     How will this play, what did you say?

134. 0:46:24

     How does this play with the existing statutes and the existing rules and regs from USG and TCSG if they already have this sort of discriminatory, uh, process, a process to address discrimination on those?

135. 0:46:36

     This, this, their, this is their language in section three.

136. 0:46:39

     Oh, okay.

137. 0:46:40

     So this is their, this is their language. This is their structure, and even though it's redundant, they were very kind and very humble to share this language with us. Um, and so I don't think it'll, I don't think it'll be an issue at all. If anything, I think it will be a help to K through 12 because if they need a guide, there's, there's one at the university level.

138. 0:47:03

     Thank you for that clarification. Um, and then at the, uh, local level, uh, the Department of Education, um, do they have any concerns? Are they ready to implement this, uh, come its effective date?

139. 0:47:17

     Yeah, I think they will have to be if we pass it. I hope you'll vote for it.

140. 0:47:22

     Thank you.

141. 0:47:22

     Thank you.

142. 0:47:27

     If I might, uh, Whip Bart, that was a, the good line of questioning. I would think from the university system, they are doing this now. That's in their policy. I think it's important if, if I might, you know, um, editorialize here, that, that we take that, that policy and put it in statute because the current administration at the Board of Regents won't be there forever, and they could change that policy. I think it's important to, to reinforce it in state statute. While again, we are constitutionally separated from their policy, this is a, a, a strong reminder that the work they're doing is appreciated and, and that we back it, um, through stat- through statutory language, even if it is questionably, uh, uh, questioning to enforce, uh, due to the constitutional separation that we're aligned with that.

143. 0:48:08

     Number... Well, we had number 12 there for a second, and then it went away. Did, uh-

144. 0:48:13

     Do you have a question?

145. 0:48:15

     Did, did you have a question?

146. 0:48:15

     Yes.

147. 0:48:15

     Yes, ma'am.

148. 0:48:16

     I was just wanted to ask, is this also inclusive of private schools and colleges?

149. 0:48:23

     No, it does not.

150. 0:48:25

     Mm.

151. 0:48:25

     Mm-mm.

152. 0:48:25

     Either co- it's not private schools nor private colleges? Okay, just all public.

153. 0:48:31

     Just the public.

154. 0:48:32

     Okay. Thank you.

155. 0:48:33

     Thank you, Ms. Representative Glaize.

156. 0:48:35

     Are, are there further, uh, questions from the committee? Further questions? We, we also had, um, you know, there were some changes here. I'd, I'd give, um, folks an, an opportunity to speak to this briefly if they'd like. Anybody? Did you have a question? I'm sorry. Okay. Um, touch your mic-

157. 0:48:54

     We see you

158. 0:48:55

     ... see if that does it. There you go.

159. 0:48:56

     It does.

160. 0:48:57

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, for all of your help. Um, Representative Silcox, just thank you for the substitute to the bill. I think this is clarifying a lot. I'm trying to read through, I guess, starting on lines 43, what the process looks like when these complaints arise K through 12, and I wanna make sure I'm understanding correctly. Once there is a complaint, that goes directly to the state level DOE. There's not any mechanism that is at the school level or school district level first. It immediately goes to the state level at DOE.

161. 0:49:26

     Well, again, we, we inserted this language, Representative Holland, because we had, we had, um, testimony that we didn't have any process in place. And so we tried to listen to the testimony and put loosely a process in place, but I think this is gonna all have to be worked out in, with logistics.

162. 0:49:48

     Okay.

163. 0:49:48

     Just like any new law, when it's implemented, um, you know, rules and regulations will have to be adopted to comply with this language, but at the same time, it, it's establish a framework, so, 'cause this is a brand new idea.

164. 0:50:02

     Thank you.

165. 0:50:03

     So...

166. 0:50:08

     Any other committee, uh, any other committee members? Um, we're having trouble with buttons. Yes, sir. Whip Bart.

167. 0:50:14

     Ju- just one additional question that comes to mind, a- and I know we've had this conversation before, but, um- W- why are we not applying these sorts of protections to private school students as well?

168. 0:50:27

     Um, I think it's kind of the definition of a private school. Um, I mean, people may choose to educate their children different ways, and, you know, we really, as a state legislature, we have authority over the public schools.

169. 0:50:42

     I, I, I hear that, but certainly if we want to protect all K through 12 students, whether they're in public or private schools, given this body's decision to provide choice and tens of millions of dollars, um, of public dollars now subsidizing those going to private schools, um, I'm, I'm still having a difficult time understanding why, y- you know, i- if this body feels that these protections are so important, private schools essentially are permitted to discriminate, uh, which I think would not be, uh, aligned with, with the, you know-

170. 0:51:14

     If you, um, it...

171. 0:51:16

     Just help me understand that.

172. 0:51:17

     If you could step inside some of the private schools that I have, um, I would tell you that it's a very, it's a very, um, litigation-oriented group of people. So those private schools have to stay on their toes, trust me.

173. 0:51:32

     All right. Thank you.

174. 0:51:34

     And, and, and again, if you'd allow it, uh, the chair here, I, I think one of the things, the, these protections are provided through federal law. Private schools have to abide by federal law. We're, we're putting this, a- as I see it, you know, isn't it true? I'll, I'll do that 'cause we're supposed to be questioning, and I, but, you know, isn't it true? We're putting these protections in state statute because these are institutions over which we, we, we are tasked, um, to, to oversee. Um, and, and it's, this is our management structure.

175. 0:52:04

     This is what we do to hold ourselves accountable. We, we are all accountable for the, for the, uh, civil rights violations and the civil rights laws that, that exist in, in federal statute. And so we, we're not, um, um, taking anything away from federal law. We, we, we can't create federal law on these things, but we're acknowledging that that exists and that we, um, have s- statutes in Georgia to provide a, a structure and a framework for people to bring a claim to us directly in addition to the one that they can bring in federal law.

176. 0:52:37

     All of those things, federal courts are available-

177. 0:52:40

     All the time, of course. Yeah

178. 0:52:41

     ... to private, to private, uh, people at the private level in K through 12 or higher, I believe. You had another question? Yes, ma'am. Um, yes, ma'am. Lydia. Representative Glaize.

179. 0:52:52

     Mr. Chairman?

180. 0:52:52

     Yes, ma'am.

181. 0:52:53

     Ask you to clarify what you were saying. Are you saying that if a private school accepts, uh, public funds, that they are, um, subject to Title VI? Is that what you just said?

182. 0:53:07

     No, no, no. Th- and again, r- remember, I'm not an, an attorney, um, several s- semesters shy of it, but what I was saying, and I'll, I'll look to Ms. Forester over there, our, our staff attorney, is, uh, private schools, whether they, whether or not they accept any state dollars, are subject to the same federal laws that all of us in this room are subject to relative to dis- discriminatory acts. And, you know, and they, uh, the people have, um, due process options and relief from that. What I was saying is the ones that we are s- tasked with overseeing, TCSG, the university system, we are providing a framework here to provide those citizens, um, direct state access to that because that's what we wanna do in the institutions that we oversee.

183. 0:53:52

     Um, and, you know, cer- certainly could be a conversation if we wanted to delve into that, but we could also provide this whole thing that you could have those reports come to the state level for private business out there, for a trucking company, for a transportation company, for Uber. But the, the state, um, doesn't do that because the federal discrimination laws apply, and those typically go to federal court. We're just trying to take care of the things that we oversee, our, our institutions. I believe I'm saying that correctly. Does, is, is that not true, Anna, that all, the federal discrimination laws apply to you regardless of whether you receive state money?

184. 0:54:30

     Is that not correct? Pr- press a button and I'll... 27? Yes, ma'am. 13.

185. 0:54:38

     I would, I would have to check the specific laws to be sure, um, but some, from my understanding and recollection, I think some of the federal laws apply if you receive federal funding. Um, so it would, I think it would just depend.

186. 0:54:52

     Okay. Thank you. All right. We're back to... We'll quarter, we'll go to quarter back, and then we'll come back to you, Will. Rep-

187. 0:55:05

     Thank, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Chair Lady. Um, for this straightforward bill that, that picks up and, and covers an awfully broad section of our population out there in K through 12 and, and in TCSG and USG, would you say that this is a quantum leap forward, at least, or a really meaningful step in the right direction?

188. 0:55:30

     I would, and I really appreciate that because I do think that this is a huge step in the right direction to making sure that every child in Georgia does not go to school and be discriminated against. But thank you.

189. 0:55:44

     Representative Martin. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, I don't want to belabor the point or to unnecessarily litigate the matter. Um, ju- just, you know, the, the fact that, a- and I would agree with, you know, all the comments made i- in that, yes, there may be a federal cause of action, uh, for private school students, that this is a good step forward. Um, however, I think if we're going to ensure that, as the author of the bill stated, that we want to ensure all kids in Georgia have these protections and provide perhaps some litigious, overly litigious folks additional options to ensure that their students are, are protected from discrimination, uh, regardless of whether they go to public or private school, um, I, I think it's just something for us to continue to consider, um, a- as this bill moves forward.

190. 0:56:30

     And, and again, I hope that, you know, we, we do take into consideration that, you know, if we're gonna apply these requirements to public schools, that, again, at least in my mind, makes the only sense that we pro- uh, apply them to private schools as well. But thank, thank you. Is that not true, Mr. Chairman, and thank you. Yes, sir.

191. 0:56:48

     The senator got wide, I mean, the rep- the whip got wide latitude. I appreciate you, uh, uh, Whip Park. I, we, we, uh, for those that listen here, the, the whip and I, um, come back and forth at each other from time to time, but I appreciate his membership in, uh, this committee, and he's a v- valid por- portion of, part of it. Uh, I don't see any further questions at this time, um, so we're gonna, we're gonna hold this, uh-

192. 0:57:11

     Thank you

193. 0:57:11

     ... we're gonna hold this over, and, uh, I'll, I'll tell you under advisement if we'll bring it back, uh, today or tomorrow for, for action. Yes, ma'am. Um, we're gonna go now to, um, present. I'm going to, uh, ask, um, the vice chairman of the committee, Carter Barrett, if he would come forward, um, and, and, uh, turn over the chair to him. And then if he'd be kind enough to recognize me to present, uh, House Bill 1413.

194. 0:58:21

     Okay. Uh, we are ready to hear House Bill 1413. Um, H- at the under- Mr. Chairman, uh, you have the, you have the floor at, at, when you're ready to present LC 610441S. Is that corre- the correct bill?

195. 0:58:41

     Yes, ma'am. But yes, sir.

196. 0:58:43

     Thank you.

197. 0:58:43

     Yes, sir. I was looking at, I was looking at Anna beside you when I said that, I promise you.

198. 0:58:48

     Thank you, sir.

199. 0:58:49

     No, I, I appreciate the, the, the committee and, uh, I'm excited to bring, uh, before you, um, what, uh, we will refer to as the Dream Scholarship, uh, i- in House Bill, uh, 1413. Uh, this is a substitute bill. The, the, the, um, bill that was out has changed briefly. I will assume that, uh, the committee members and, and those, um, in the public have seen this before. So I'll give a, a q- quick overview of the bill and then explain the changes, uh, that were made in, in, uh, this LC 04441-- 0441S.

200. 0:59:27

     Um, the, the crux of this is to implement through the Georgia Student Finance Authority, um, what is, we will refer to as the G- Dream Scholarship. Um, the scholarship was originally, um, put together, uh, and, and funded in the budget, has gone through several i- iterations and, but, uh, completed its final passage, uh, and I believe the governor plans to sign that budget, uh, tomorrow morning, that places the money in the Georgia Student Finance, uh, Commission for dispersal.

201. 0:59:57

     It will be, uh, uh, the first pass, uh, portion of money would be to use for the first few years and then an initial deposit that we hope will be matched with fundraising through the technical college system and the university system of Georgia to help our students, um, achieve more, uh, financial success. The scholarship is in place to be up to $3,000 per year, up to $3,000, uh, per year to fill the financial unmet need.

202. 1:00:30

     Um, that's, that's a bit of an, an open term, and it was, um, the governor's idea to do that on, on purpose because we don't know exactly what that need may be. But, um, he, uh, has put that before us, and this is, uh, the implementation language in order to provide that. You will see, um, even as we work today through this bill, uh, probably some additional language before the committee is actually a-asked to vote on it that, um, speaks to, um, the financing, uh, how, how the money will be distributed on an annual basis, uh, limitations of amounts to make sure that the endowment money is not, uh, spent, uh, prior to d- it doing what it's supposed to do, and that's to raise an ongoing, um, uh, funding f- uh, source in perpetuity.

203. 1:01:22

     So with that, let me, uh, mention the changes that were made into the bill. Um, the f- the first one that, uh, we changed seems small, but I, I believe, uh, makes, uh, quite a bit of difference, is on the original bill in the fin- financial aid definition, we struck the word loans. Uh, we want students to have exhausted financial, uh, means, scholarships, grants, awards, and so forth to meet their financial need. But we felt putting loans in there was just telling you you have to go into a debt in order to get this scholarship w- when the governor's idea and the idea of, of this committee in the past and, and other members of the legislature was to help reduce student debt to, to say you had to have debt before you would qualify for this was not necessarily, um, the, the right message to send.

204. 1:02:15

     That is not to say that this would completely answer all the unmet needs and a loan would not be necessary for some students, and, and that's okay, uh, to have for some students. But we did, uh, remove that in the, um, financial aid description. Um, there were a couple of other definitions, uh, that were removed. One of the things that, uh, we've done with eligible post-secondary institutions, you will notice that, um- The non-public, uh, post-secondary in- institution definition has been removed, and they have been removed on line 26.

205. 1:02:51

     Basically, we have gone back to the governor's, uh, original wish that this would be for TCSG and the university system, um, Georgia students, uh, at this point in time. Um, I know there are some in this room, and there are, are students all over Georgia that go to our non, uh, public partners, um, and that, uh, does not allow them to be available, this money to be available for them at its first, uh, pass at the beginning, but there's limited funds.

206. 1:03:23

     The funds are gonna be matched by TCSG and USG Foundations, and as we spin the program up, we just went back to the governor's original, um, thought o- of how that distribution would be, um, provided for. So those institutions, um, the eligibility will not be in, in this version, uh, which, which leads to another change later on in the bill which spoke to, um, grants to students with, in non-public institutions being matched, uh, but the match was not, not defined.

207. 1:03:57

     So that's something that we would look at defining going forward. But, um, those post-secondary institutions are not included in the initial rollout of the Dream Scholarship. Also, due to the funding at the beginning, um, in, uh, what is on the original bill in lines 38 and 39, um, what is in the, is, is, is a little bit further down, 37 now in, in, uh, 37 and 38 in this bill, we basically, uh, have changed, um, well we, we've actually inserted the word undergraduate degree, so this would be for undergraduate degrees, not professional programs or master's graduate degrees, and we have stricken, uh, diploma or certificate.

208. 1:04:45

     This is for degre- undergraduate degree programs is what this would be available for. Um, one of the things we did, there was a limitation later in the bill that only allowed this to be available for fall and summer semesters. Um, in, in discussions with leadership at TCSG and USG, um, along with the governor's office and leadership in the House and Senate, uh, we removed the exclusion of a summer, uh, summer quarter or semester.

209. 1:05:20

     Uh, we believe that as long as you keep the annual limitation on the amount of money the student, uh, in, in conjunction with the financial aid office should be able to meet their unmet financial aid need with this scholarship, and if that takes them through the summer, uh, s- semester or summer quarter, that, that's fine. It's, um, the, the, the annual amount stays, uh, limited, but they are able to use it in the summer. We felt like this would help people graduate sooner. Um, there was some discussion and, and will no doubt be ongoing discussion, uh, later in the bill about the work requirement.

210. 1:05:57

     Um, there is a part-time work requirement. It, it is rather, um, loosely defined, and we are going to, uh, and I'll talk about this later, uh, but we are going to allow the financial offices at the universities work with the students to define that. Would, they would do that, um, w- under the, the rules and regs and recommendations of the Student Finance Commission, and those rules and regs would be set by the board of the Student Finance Commission.

211. 1:06:28

     So we want to give flexibility here, um, and, and do that with monitoring. There'll be reporting, so the work requirement will be, uh, defined in, in rules and regs, uh, to be reasonable, workable, um, but, uh, a valid part of the scholarship. Um, then you will also see that, uh, in lines 83 through 88, uh, there will be a reporting requirement annually so that we can make sure that this, um, scholarship is working and that it comes back before, as, as did the completion grant before the legislative process to be refined and to be, uh, in the best interest of the students.

212. 1:07:13

     Um, this would, we would hope to, uh, have effective July 1st and, uh, start applying in the fall. I, I see Mr. Chris Green in the back of the room, the president of Georgia Student Finance. Um, this is not a small task for, for he and his organization and their board to set up, but we feel like it's important, uh, to Georgia and Georgians, and we wanna ask him to, uh, to do that a- and to stretch, um, their opportunities. One of the things I did wanna mention is the, um, completion grant will continue to be available for all of, uh, our, uh, Georgia students, that would be public and, uh, private institutions, and could work in conjunction with the Dream Scholarship.

213. 1:07:58

     There's nothing in the Dream Scholarship that says if you had the Dream Scholarship and you're still right at the end of your last semester that you couldn't qualify for a portion of the co- completion grant. The idea is to, uh, help people across the finish line, help people, in this case with Dreams, get started and to cross the finish line. One of the things I probably failed to mention is the eligibility for this is one must be eligible for the Hope Scholarship. You do not have to attain the Hope Scholarship, to be clear, but you have to be eligible to attain the Hope Scholarship.

214. 1:08:33

     So you have to be a citi- citizen of Georgia, you have to graduate from a Georgia high school, um, those things that the committee is, is familiar with. I believe they're in the section 519.1 of, of current Georgia Code. So that is the eligibility, uh, for a student to, to stand, uh, and be eligible for Dreams. With that, uh, Mr. Chairman, if there are questions, um, I will try to answer them. I will try to get with members, uh, between now and, and either t- tomorrow or Wednesday when we would, uh, look to take action on, on this bill if, uh, um, if you would allow me.

215. 1:09:06

     So I'll, I'll an- answer questions or, or stand a- aside and let you hear testimony.

216. 1:09:12

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, we do have a few questions at this time. Uh, Representative Clark? Um, thank you, Mr. Chair, and, uh, to my other chairman. Um, so just very quickly, um, uh, I just have like three very quick questions. Um, one, do we have work requirements for Hope Scholarship or Zell Scholarship right now? Do we, do we... I, to my knowledge, we do not. Okay. Um, and then the second question is, um, we're kind of one of the last states to do this. Do any other states require work requirements for their needs-based scholarships?

217. 1:09:44

     I, I, I couldn't tell you if, if... I, I'm, I understand not all do. I couldn't tell you that one does not. I'm, I'm not sure. Okay. Um, and then, uh, the last question from a professor perspective, um, are there any concerns about students' academic success if they're having to do extracurricular stuff just to keep their scholarship? Because I assume these are students that are already academically, um, not eligible for Hope Scholarship, and so they probably need a little more time on their work.

218. 1:10:17

     So as a professor, is there any concerns about just the, uh, student academic success by making them or requiring them- Well- ... to do extracurriculars? That, that's a fair question. And, and I, I can't... I'm not a, a college c- counselor and, and, you know, I, I can't answer that question directly and, and for everybody, Dr. Clark. But what I would say, and, and I'll just read this, 'cause it, it's a fair discussion to have. But it says, "Be engaged in paid or unpaid, um, work at least part-time for which, which may include but shall not be limited to employment, internship, externship, volunteer work, or military service." It's fairly open to what that may be.

219. 1:11:01

     It could be, and I was speaking, if, if the whip doesn't mind me invoking his name, we were speaking beforehand about it and, and he had some concerns as well. And I believe, and I take your point, but I believe this gives the financial aid officer at the, you, you know, the university or the technical college the opportunity to look at individual situations and say, "You know what? There's a work requirement to get this. This is good for you. We were able to work it out. You know, you don't have a job. You don't have a, a, a, a thing you're working at.

220. 1:11:32

     What I... your, your work requirement is going to be we're gonna ask you to come in this office a couple hours a week, I don't know what that would be, a- and help us process forms for other students that may wanna get this." And, and I can't think of anything more fulfilling. I... That, that's just a one-off. So I mean- Yeah ... there, there may be other things. But I think it, the way this work requirement is written, it gives the, the ultimate flexibility to those that are on the ground, and quite frankly, normally here, we're over-prescriptive and, and then we have to loosen things.

221. 1:12:04

     If, if we're anything here with this work requirement, we're probably... it's a bit too loose, and then we may find it, it needs to come down, but maybe not. Maybe it'll be just right. Maybe people will have the personal responsibility and fit it in the right way. So if they find a student that has this and, uh, what they were asking them to do was putting them behind, they can, they can, um, lessen it some and make it fit the student. I think we want to with the work requirement, and I'm long answer your question, but it's very important that, that, that we all understand this. I think we want them to have a sense of community in that university and, and it means something and you got this, and, and if, if your work requirement is helping other students see it and get it or mentoring a student, I, I think that just lifts, lifts, uh, that student up and it'll lift others.

222. 1:12:50

     And, um, so would you be open, uh, Mr. Chair, uh, last question, to, um, adding something like study hall, um, or, or, uh, going to a tutoring center for some of these students? I'm just, again, from my professor perspective, making sure, like if we do wanna make sure these students... 'Cause we don't wanna give scholarships to students that are gonna fail because- Well, I, I guess what... And, and I cut you off, but, but I guess what I would say is volunteer work g- is, is very wide to do.

223. 1:13:20

     Okay. And I w- I'm- That's fair ... I would, I would think we could leave that to interpretation and look at the reporting we get on that first year and see what kind of... Because I think we, we've all been very pleased with the 95, 96% passage rate we've got on cl- classes we've paid for with a completion grant. When we see folks that are getting this doing well in school and moving forward, I don't think anybody on this committee or anybody in the second floor of the governor's office or in the Senate is gonna pick at somebody and say, you know, "Your work requirement was two hours too short." As long as you're progressing through school, I think it's just...

224. 1:13:56

     So w- w- w- you know, we all qualify today. Maybe we'll get invited back and we'll get to look at this next year and, and see some success. All right. Thank you. I won't be here next year, but- Thank you ... I agree. Thank you. Well, we will have to come see you where you're, where you're teaching. Agree. Thank you, Representative. Uh, Representative Glaize? Thank you so much, Chairman, um, for sharing the bill. I'm really excited about the opportunity for students with unmet needs, um, with additional needs to have this.

225. 1:14:30

     So can you just, um, zero in on unmet needs, or does it meet the, meet the qualifications that unmet need means in any of the federal grants such as the Pell Grant? Well, the... Yeah, yes, ma'am. Um, and Representative Glaize, that's one of the, the requirements that, uh, to be eligible a, a student, um, seeking a grant. I keep looking at the, the, the original bill, so let me direct you back to the, the new bill. Um, meet, it meets require...

226. 1:15:01

     Starting on line 39, you, you have to, you know, fill out a FAFSA. Perhaps I should've, have gone through this, but it, it's on the, um, it's in the bill, so I was trying to be a little brief. But you, you have to be enrolled, you have to do these, these various things and, and again, have an unmet financial need. I think that is

227. 1:15:21

     Purposefully, um, open to, to the financial officers. I mean, there's a, there's a place where we're driving this out to the financial officers at TCSG and the USG system that we have to look at those individuals that work with students to determine that. And then we have to look back to Mr. Green back there who, who's, who's looking at me with all the work we, we may put on him and, and let them determine through rules and regs what those, what those are.

228. 1:15:51

     And then we'll get an opportunity to b- to be part of that, and his board will help set those. Well, I ag- I agree with what you said, that we should just continue to keep parity in unmet need in the, um, post-secondary, um, education sphere. So that would include some things like you and I know, um, that were books. It could also include transportation and housing. So I'm, I'm glad you said that it leads up to the interpretation. Last but not least, I wanted to ask if it's okay with you to ask one more question, Chairman, um, a- a- around, um, work.

229. 1:16:30

     Uh, I know it's open, but we've got students who are athletes, full-time athletes, um, and some of them may be on a partial, um, scholarship and may have a need for, um, some additional fundings. Would a volunteer or, or be open to the athletic training of a student who is on like a partial scholarship? And, and I know you don't know the answer, but I- I, I would- ...

230. 1:17:00

     want to find that out ... yeah, I would, I would be happy to give the, the lady my opinion. Um, and, and then again, if the chair doesn't like, if, if Mr. Green might come and give us two minutes of, of what his process would be to create the rules, just to tell us how that would look. But I, I would tell you having been, been fortunate enough to, to get to walk on at the University of Georgia and, and, and play over there, um, a l- a little while ago, and it's a lot harder today than it was then, uh, to tell you that if they're getting some scholarship for that work they're doing in the gymnasium or on a basketball court or if they're cheering or if they're, whatever they're doing at, at a college, that, that, that would ev- that would absolutely fit a work requirement where I come from because they're doing things and the compensation may not be in terms of dollars, but it's in terms of, of their scholarship, and I would think that would, would fit as a work requirement.

231. 1:17:55

     And perhaps again, they would mentor some other, uh, folks on the football team in addition to that or on the basketball team, the cheer team, uh, in, in order to, to do that. Again, we have to have some level of trust in these folks at our institutions and our financial officer working with these students, um, to do this because we just can't be everywhere. And if we try to tighten, be too tight on it, we'll, we'll, we'll find out that the, the, the search for perfection is the enemy of the good, and it won't get to the people it needs to get to, in my opinion.

232. 1:18:28

     Isn't that true?

233. 1:18:34

     Very good. Uh, thank you. Uh, Represe- uh, W- Park.

234. 1:18:40

     Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, Chairman Martin, thank you for the bill. Um, I think it's incredibly important. I just had two questions, if I may. Uh, first, the, uh, $3,000 amount, um, can you help just, um, educate us in terms of, you know, is that kind of the most, uh, up to 3,000 of course, but, but will that cover the vast majority of students who kind of fall into this category in which, um, they have a need and haven't been able to otherwise meet it? I, I wish I could give you statistical information, really operational in- information on that, Mr.

235. 1:19:11

     Webb, but I, I am, I am told w- with anecdotal information that they think that will cover a lot of the people. Will it cover everyone? No. Um, but it, it was, you know, the right number, uh, you know, that they had done with research. That's what was originally talked about by the governor, I believe, in the State of the Union, up to 3,000. I do know that we have up to 2,500 on our completion grant. So I mean, if you would, a, a student in their last year might have up to 5,500 available to them for, for the last two semesters.

236. 1:19:43

     Uh, I'm not saying everyone would, but we've also understood that up to 2,500 on the completion grant, I believe, has been an average of about $1,200, um, is what the average award has been. Some have been as little as four, five, $600 to help folks o- over. So I think it goes, um, a long way with a lot of people. Does it meet every need? N- no. Is it the best way to start in order to distribute the money to get the, uh, impact the most Georgians possibly? I believe so.

237. 1:20:13

     Uh, one last question. I know, uh, every member here on this committee, uh, voted in favor of the amended Fiscal 26 that appropriated about 300 plus million dollars for this purpose. If this bill does not pass, what happens to that money?

238. 1:20:28

     I suspect the way, I think it's in two tranches. Um, the, the, the one tranche, I believe, and I, I would, I'm gonna actually, uh, yield to Mr. Green 'cause it's gonna be under his purview, but I believe the one group, the, the one deposit stays in a non, um, it would stay until a bill is passed. I believe the 300, the 300 or so million would stay in there. The 25 could, might, might be able, might roll back in and be recaptured at the end of the year.

239. 1:20:59

     But I'm, I'm, I'm saying that from having not looked directly at the line items in the budget. Uh, just one- Well, one of, if I can just follow, the 300 million is going into a non-lapsing fund for this purpose. And so I believe if that's the fund it went in, it would stay in until there was such time as, uh, we, we got an appropriate, uh, bill. So if there are no statutory parameters with respect to how those funds would be dispersed, would USG or, um, would they be able to provide by rule?

240. 1:21:30

     Uh, parameters for this need-based program? Uh, again, just hypothetically if we're not able to get this across the finish line, my understanding as to the importance of this bill.

241. 1:21:40

     I, I believe that Mr. Greene is going to need, um, and he can te- um, testify this if the chair will allow, but I believe he would, um, it would be best for him to have statutory authority. I can't stand here today and tell you that a governor couldn't do that through an executive order. Uh, I just don't know the answer to that. But I think it would be, it would be best. I mean, a number of people, uh, expressed concerns, as did I, quite frankly, for, for that amount of money going to a private, uh, foundation to do it without legislative control.

242. 1:22:12

     So for us to, uh, fail to come to some agreement to do this with the House and Senate, I think would, in my opinion, be an abdication of our, our, our duties to, to the people. I mean, the governor has put a- put aside this money, um, that, that came from the taxpayers of Georgia and expecting us to, to deploy it in a pur- in a purpose, in a manner that will be good for Georgians and good for Georgia, and we have the opportunity to do that. If not, with this exact language today, I look for your input to get, get, get where we need to go so we can do, do good for Georgia.

243. 1:22:44

     Thank you, sir.

244. 1:22:48

     Representative, uh, Barnes.

245. 1:22:52

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, for this bill as well. Uh, just on line 63, we have a mandatory, um, financial literacy course. I'm just trying to understand, are we going to, uh... Who's giving the course, and, um, are we going to, I guess, see if they take it? Like, do they have to take it in a certain amount of time, or do they need to take it before they get the money?

246. 1:23:17

     Um, I'm gon- I think, um, I'm gonna yield to, to, uh, Mr. Greene on that. But I, I think that would probably be handled in, in rules and regs. The idea for that financially l- financial literacy course is to be a positive thing for the student, not to be a, um, a hardship. Um, and I know that, um, Mr. Greene, uh, will have to, um, determine again through, um, the acquisition process or through, um, rules and regs how, w- what that course will be and h- how that course will be offered. But I know that the intention of that is to be good for the student, not to be, uh, something that's hard for them to complete.

247. 1:23:55

     I appreciate that line in the bill.

248. 1:23:56

     Yes, ma'am.

249. 1:24:00

     Chairman Carpenter.

250. 1:24:00

     Thank you, Chairman. Uh, two questions. First question, or one's a suggestion. Uh, as they go through the process, JA offers a pretty great financial literacy program they could probably set up for, um, for this purpose. The, the question is, how dead set are we on line 44, the six semester hours? Um, I, I just have a little bit of heartburn, uh, setting the base so low because what's gonna end up happening, I'm afraid, is when they get to the eighth, eighth semester, they're not gonna have enough hours if they're only hitting on six.

251. 1:24:33

     So, um, at least nine, something to, to move that bar a little bit because otherwise they're gonna, they're gonna need your completion grant plus some more probably to finish up. So that'd be my heartburn. But other than that, I appreciate the legislation.

252. 1:24:47

     Um, I, I'll take that under advisement. If, if in an answer to that, uh, Chairman Carpenter, um, I think that the six semester hours is some... Not, not everyone does school at, at a full-time basis and, and we wanna be able to pro- provide help for them as well. But I do take, uh, I, I do take your point as if, if you do six semester hours and then there's a limitation on how many semesters you can get it, um, th- there again, they need to work with a financial advisor and, and realize that, you know, maybe you, you don't take it for every, uh, e- every semester, um, if you do that because it, it won't go, it won't go as far.

253. 1:25:24

     I take your, I take your point.

254. 1:25:29

     Uh, Representative Jackson.

255. 1:25:34

     I think it's a wonderful idea. Uh, when I spoke out earlier, I was mixing things up, and I, I apologize. I have seen a program like this work that was built by one of the university schools, and it was because of that, that particularly our athletes and our other students that needed additional funding. If you work it out, it really helps students, particularly the athletes, because they're the ones, they're playing ball, and then but they're not being paid, and all of those things are going on.

256. 1:26:13

     But it has to be a well-oiled program. So I, I just wanted to apologize. I feel s- I felt kinda stupid. But, uh, this is a program that has long been needed. Some schools were doing similar programs, and then you had some that had none, uh, in the financial aid, uh, arena. So I change. I did. I change. I have to because having worked on a campus that dealt with financial aid, you know that these young people need even more money than what they're getting from the Pell or this and all those other things.

257. 1:26:52

     So thank you, Mr. Chairman.

258. 1:26:55

     Representative Jackson, please don't ever say, "I felt kinda stupid." It's a great honor to be sitting next to you on this historic occasion. So thank you for that.

259. 1:27:05

     Thank you.

260. 1:27:06

     Um, Representative Glaize.

261. 1:27:09

     I, I just wanted to bring in the discussion that I would hope that we would come back and include private colleges, um, um, to-

262. 1:27:19

     Being able to accept, uh, the $3,000. And I do wanna say that many, many, many years ago, five plus decades, there was something called the Supplemental Opportunity, um, Education Grant, and I was one of those who was poor enough to be able to get that grant, and that grant did help me, um, finish undergrad. So this is important to those students who it's directed at and targeted for, and those are the students who have this great need.

263. 1:27:54

     And so I do know that some of them will be part-time, and so I do agree that we should allow the students and the financial aid, um, members of the college to help work out how they use these grants and in, um, the completion grant as being also usable. So I really do thank, um, Chairman Martin for just doing a great job and kind of showing how this grant would be applied throughout Georgia, and very appreciative of our governor for bringing this dream scholarship for such a time as this.

264. 1:28:35

     Thank you, Representative. Uh, uh, Representative Barnes. Um, I don't, I don't have anything. What?

265. 1:28:44

     Representative Stinson.

266. 1:28:47

     Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Chairman, uh, Martin, for your work on, on this legislation. And again, just to echo what my colleague stated, uh, thanks to Governor Kemp for, for providing, um, the, the appropriations for this, 'cause we've been talking about and working toward this effort for quite some time. And so is today, are we voting on this, or this is a hearing? 'Cause if we're voting, I'm ready to make a motion.

267. 1:29:11

     Well, I'm not sitting in that chair now, but I would re- re- remind the lady that we, we hear things twice, and this is the first time, and I wouldn't expect, uh, us, us to change that but because of the first name on the bill. So we, we'll, we'll have you back, uh, li- very soon.

268. 1:29:32

     Thank you.

269. 1:29:32

     Okay, we have a couple of people who would like to speak to the, to the issue themselves. Is Jenna Colvin here? Ms. Colvin, please come up. Chairman, I'm gonna, I'm gonna step back here, and I would, would just like to close after the, the speakers if I could. Yes, sir.

270. 1:29:55

     All right.

271. 1:29:55

     You ready for me? Okay. Uh, good afternoon. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this bill. I'm Jenna Colvin with the Georgia Independent College Association. We represent the state's 24 private nonprofit colleges, and we hope that this important program will be extended to benefit all Georgians, and that student-- the money will follow the students wherever they choose to go, and so that they can go to the school that's a right fit for them. HOPE works that way.

272. 1:30:27

     The student, if the student earns HOPE, they can go to whichever college is the right one for them. This should work the same way for our students that are struggling financially.

273. 1:30:39

     So Georgia has the lowest home state college attendance rate in the Southeast, meaning compared to our neighbors, fewer students stay home for school. We can be, we, the private schools, can be an important partner to change that and make sure that Georgia's workforce is, uh, in as best a position as it could be. Um, when we think about financial need for students, I think there's a perception that students that go to private schools are, have a lot of money.

274. 1:31:13

     As a percentage, the Independent College Association serves 40% Pell students. That's the same as the university system. In terms of numbers, though, it's different, 'cause there's a lot more schools at the public schools. It's about a nine-to-one ratio. Or the in-state Pell rate is 11%, uh, of, of the in-state Pell students will go to a private school. So adding us is not going to be a significant burden financially, because the numbers aren't huge.

275. 1:31:48

     And then I'd also just note that we've done an analysis of the graduate debt, 'cause I think there's kind of this other idea that it being, that the amount of debt for students at private schools is so much higher than at the university system. The average debt at graduation from a GICA school is only $2,500 more than a s- graduate from the university system. So this $3,000 number could make a huge difference for many students who want to go to a private school, and that could be because they want to study in a community with a religious affiliation.

276. 1:32:29

     It could be because they want to study at a college that serves histo- you know, that's a historically Black college and university. It could be because they want to study at a women's school, right? The, our schools offer something different, and it's something different and unique that's of importance for many Georgia families. And if the students aren't allowed to choose the school that's the right fit for them because they c- can't have this dream scholarship go with them, then we're hurting students in our community, and we're forcing them into a school that may not be the right fit for them.

277. 1:33:07

     And generally, we don't do that. And so my hope is that you would consider including, um, adding back in the language that was in the bill as dropped, not in the substitute. Thank you.

278. 1:33:23

     Thank you, Ms. Coleman. Uh, Chris Greene, Georgia Student Finance Authority, would you join us for a minute and give us the benefit of your knowledge?

279. 1:33:37

     Uh, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, thank you. Uh, my name is Chris Greene. I serve as president of the Georgia Student Finance Commission. Um, as has been said, thank you to the governor and to this body, uh, for this historic investment. $325 million, your support in the amended budget, uh, will absolutely be a game changer for students. Uh, Representative Glaze, to your question about, uh, unmet need and the cost of attendance, the way we read the bill currently is that this would allow us to meet both direct and indirect costs. So thinking about not only tuition and fees, but housing, food, transportation, materials, those types of things.

280. 1:34:12

     Um, and so, uh, Mr. Chairman, I'd be happy to respond to any questions, uh, if I can.

281. 1:34:26

     Rip Park.

282. 1:34:28

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, th- so the $3,000 amount, um, about how many students currently in our public institutions would that cover? Um, and based on the testimony we just heard, if we were to include private institutions, what would that look like?

283. 1:34:44

     To- to my knowledge, I have not seen an estimate on the number of students served. The way the vision is currently, 300 million will go into an endowment to be made for future awards, uh, and we'd start with that initial $25 million investment. Be- because I know this is a priority for you all and for the governor, I fully anticipate the expectation that we will make awards this fall. Um, but I'm sorry, I don't have a student estimate just yet.

284. 1:35:08

     And, um, could- could you speak to, you know, what, if any, additional, um, issues would there be if we added private, uh, colleges and non-profits at this time?

285. 1:35:18

     Uh, you know, thank you for the question. We serve about, uh, 82 institutions currently. Uh, longstanding great relationships with all of our post-secondary partners. Uh, one of the things that, uh, you all are contemplating with this is, uh, perhaps a campus allocation model. So we would, uh, allocate essentially a pool of money to the institutions based on the student need on that campus. And then as you've heard, the financial aid administrators could help target those dollars to the students with the most need. Uh, but we would follow your lead as far as which eli- uh, institutions are eligible to participate, uh, at the beginning.

286. 1:35:52

     Thank you.

287. 1:35:56

     Representative Glaze.

288. 1:35:58

     And, um, one other question around, um, the financial literacy course. Um, would it be possible to do more work on that to make sure that each, um, college, TCSG, USG, or if we include private, that they offer that, um, course, um, to the students so that they can actually have the course on campus?

289. 1:36:23

     Yes, ma'am. Thank you to this committee for your focus on financial literacy. Uh, the great news is there are several, uh, external partners in this space that offer vigil- video modules online, uh, in-person learning. I know our campus partners already deploy many of these types of modules to assist students. And so whether it's, uh, a resource that we have on the website or we give a, a list of, um, uh, acceptable programs to the institutions, I think anything is possible and, uh, just what a great opportunity for students.

290. 1:37:00

     Okay, Mr. Greene, thank you very much, uh, for that. We have no further questions. Mr. Chairman, would you like to-

291. 1:37:07

     Yes, Your Honor. I- I wanna, uh, be brief here and, and again, just thank the, the, the governor. I don't think I have mentioned, and, and I'm remiss in doing this, uh, Chancellor, uh, Sonny Perdue has been very, uh, a very big, uh, part of this and, uh, has been raising money toward this goal, uh, for over a year. And, and so we thank the chancellor. Um, also Commissioner Dozier I know is very, uh, impressive. And I would just say, you know, if, if, if we, we can continue to look at things, but one, the, the, to the whip's point in, in the private, um, college is not being in this version, we went back to the governor's original plan, and I think there's two things, not that we don't trust our folks at the private college, we certainly do, but we're, we're having to refine how this money is, is given out based on the, the institutions, and there's gonna, there's a lot of flexibility in the work requirement and determination and needs.

292. 1:38:00

     The TCSG financial aid offices, the, and the USG financial aid offices report to us. The, the private colleges don't. So I think we, we can use a couple of years to refine what the unmet need looks like, what that defines, what the work requirement looks like, and, and perhaps we will get to the point with Ms. Coleman talking about those private partners because again, these are, these are students that are eligible from Georgia. So with that, uh, I'll continue to look forward to, uh, working with my colleagues here, and we'll bring this back and, and, uh, have something for you to, to vote on here very soon.

293. 1:38:44

     We're gonna hear it twice, I guess. Okay. There, uh, there being no further questions, we will, uh, bring this one back, um, very, very soon. Uh, probably, uh, in the morning, I guess, or p- hopefully this afternoon even, or even in ten minutes.

294. 1:39:01

     Not quite, but... Not, not quite. Um...

295. 1:39:07

     Are you really listening?

296. 1:39:10

     Um...

297. 1:39:11

     Getting wild.

298. 1:39:16

     Um, we, I, I thank everyone, uh, for the, uh, positive, uh, comments on that and look forward to working with you. We're gonna go back. We had two, uh, two items before us, um, that I gave you, um, some more time while we were looking to, to look at. But we have substitutes where many, um, uh- Um, things have changed, uh, to, to work with the folks. And so we have before us two items, uh, this afternoon. The first one I'm gonna go to for action is HB 1379. This is HB 1379, LC 61-0442S.

299. 1:39:53

     Um, we had testimony on that. We have a, a substitute that answered many of our questions, uh, from Houston Gaines. LC 61-0442S, HB 1379. What's the pleasure? Do pass. Do pass. I have, I have a motion do pass. Is there a second? Second. I have a motion and a second. Is there a discussion? Discussion on this? Hearing no discussion, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed, no. No. Motion passes.

300. 1:40:24

     Mr. Chairman. Yes, sir, you can. Gentleman wishes a, a division. All those in favor of the motion, the motion is to move forward do pass recommendation 1379, LC 61-0442S, uh, signify by raising your right hand. Got it. Okay. Reverse.

301. 1:40:47

     Got it? Mm-hmm. And you have, have that as? Hmm? What'd you have as 11- It was, uh, pass. I know, but do you have the number, 11-2? 11-3. 11-3. Uh, that moves forward with do pass recommendation. Uh, we have also HB 1363, LC 65-0083S available for action, uh, from Chairman Silcox. What's the pleasure of the committee on this item? Do pass. I have a motion. Is there a second? Second. I have a motion and a second.

302. 1:41:19

     Is there a discussion? Discussion? Hearing none, all those in favor say aye. Aye. Any opposed, no. Hearing that, we move that, uh, on to rules, 1363, LC 65-0083. We have a couple of, uh, items we are gonna bring back later in the week. So, um, right now, I think we're scheduled at 1:30 tomorrow. If there are no further action before the committee, we'll stand adjourned without objection. I see everybody's ready to go, and we are adjourned.