Comité Higher Education de la Cámara de Representantes, 11 de marzo de 2026

Transcripción

431 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:00:02

   Guys, I remember this is my normal attire. This is my Mr. and Mrs. Smith shirt.

2. 0:00:19

   Sorry, I've been trying to get through the questions as quickly as I could today. That's a much better way of having saying it.

3. 0:01:06

   Is that the best professional colloquialism for that?

4. 0:02:30

   Is it the best I

5. 0:02:49

   can get?

6. 0:03:12

   Thank you.

7. 0:03:18

   Hello. I think you dropped all your stuff earlier, but good job.

8. 0:03:29

   Well, the-- I heard him say that before heading out. He was like, uh, Alex from the governor's office is coming down here to bring us something. And then you came in, and you brought it. So I was like, "Oh, that feels like she's Alex." Yes, that's right. That's right. How you doing?

9. 0:03:45

   Good. Senator Walker, how are you?

10. 0:03:46

    I'm good. You good today?

11. 0:03:47

    Can't complain. It's a beautiful day outside.

12. 0:03:49

    Yes, it is.

13. 0:03:50

    All right, well, I'll stop.

14. 0:03:51

    I'm good, baby, baby.

15. 0:03:54

    Yes, I am endlessly appreciative of that. So I'm gonna sit down. I just had a walk with my son. Trying to leave right now. Little visits, a lot of visits. Yes, I need to get it checked today to make sure my class never reached out to us. You know, I'm worried that he's like, "Oh, yeah, the forty percent grade on it," very, very, very high school grade. It's not professional at all. It's really bad. Yes, but how? Um, he was fine at ECU, so I just told him to tell me what he learned and what he returns. That way I know.

16. 0:04:25

    But he should be good. He's, he can handle a lot of pressure.

17. 0:04:37

    But, so hopefully it goes well now. Everything will get-- I think the semester breaks, so like maybe it's fair it has to be because we're not here as much. Yes. Like, my knees will be back, right? Well, no, I do go on a clinic right after. This has to be your goal today. You have to focus. Although I did tell Alison, I was like, "Hey, what are you doing this weekend?" And he's like, "What are you doing this weekend?" And I'm working. I wasn't even working. I just sent me an email. I was like, "I don't know what I'm talking about." I just seemed to know that this is my wall.

18. 0:05:22

    Hey, Butch, how you doing this evening?

19. 0:05:24

    Doing good. Yourself?

20. 0:05:25

    Good to see you.

21. 0:05:25

    Yeah, it's a pleasure.

22. 0:05:44

    We got our, our program this afternoon.

23. 0:05:49

    Yes.

24. 0:05:49

    So we just, uh-

25. 0:05:50

    It's just perfect timing for us

26. 0:05:51

    ... um, just got to consult Dr. Smith to-

27. 0:06:00

    Good to see you, sir.

28. 0:06:03

    So-

29. 0:06:03

    Star of the roost. Yeah, I know. But you're not-

30. 0:06:06

    So we, we dropped, uh, dropped that news.

31. 0:06:09

    Well, hopefully it'll He'll be here tomorrow. Yes. He said he'll be here.

32. 0:06:18

    Mark entering. Talk to him. State filing. Oh, I

33. 0:06:38

    am not so sure. Microsoft.

34. 0:06:48

    I'm really pleased about where we are right now. Did a good job. Yeah. And then she, she had, she had this in her background, so it's like, you know, you're gonna do fine. We can't be everywhere at once. Well, I'm trying to be where I can. I've got really good people. I've got a skill set.

35. 0:07:23

    I'm very fortunate to have somebody who thinks like I do. Once we kinda curve this. So exactly. Once we get on G, that seven

36. 0:07:38

    years. And so I didn't

37. 0:07:44

    even. That's what it currently is. Oh, fantastic.

38. 0:08:19

    How you doing? Good to see you. Good. Carter, Carter's moved out. He's mo-ma-- He's got a lot of good stuff coming over your way. You gonna need some help, partner. Yeah. I told him the first step was to be kind today. And that helps to help, helps the blood flow probably in that arm. Yes. Yeah. I'm working hard. It's usual, I'm sure. Sure, I'm working smart. Um, I gotta figure that part out. Oh, you're good. Never mind.

39. 0:08:54

    But we're getting there. Still run off? Yeah. I like it. I like it. Very different, you know, than what I was used to. But, uh, I like it. I think, um, I think the time is right. I really feel like I'm right, right time because there's so much chaos. And I'm, I'm pretty, I'm pretty, uh, level-headed, I think. And don't get too excited and don't get too down either.

40. 0:09:25

    So it's kinda...

41. 0:10:20

    Hey, good to see you. Good.

42. 0:10:24

    How are you? Good to see you.

43. 0:10:32

    No worries.

44. 0:10:36

    No worries. No worries. In a way, it's, in a way, it's less pressure, right? No pressure. I have my, one of my most important constituents sitting by me. I'm like, "I don't want to screw this up." Well, I really appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you. You're welcome. Thanks again.

45. 0:11:32

    Hey, man. Good to see you. You, uh, were busy yesterday. I saw you on the TV monitors.

46. 0:11:41

    Got one hundred percent funded.

47. 0:11:48

    That's good. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad.

48. 0:11:55

    If I can get my phone, uh, some aerial views revealed route through there, I'd

49. 0:12:03

    appreciate it. Just transfer. If you get a non-new but just get it photographed, please send them to me.

50. 0:12:14

    Give them access to...

51. 0:24:50

    Good, good afternoon, everyone. I'm gonna go ahead and call this meeting of the, uh, House Higher Ed, uh, Committee to order. We'll get started. Um, there's a lot going on around, uh, the Capitol today. Um, we do not yet have a quorum to take action on legislation, but we will go ahead and, and get, uh, started with, um, our hearings and, and information. So at the, at this point, the, the chair, excuse me, the chair will, uh, go through the legislation, and we'll hold, um, the items if we wish to take action, and we'll do, do all of that, pardon me, at the same, at the same time.

52. 0:25:26

    So we'll, we'll go ahead and do that. Um, uh, to the, the Pro Tem of the Senate, or Senator Walker, if you wanna get ready to come on up here. And while, while you're doing that, I'm gonna ask, we have some folks from C- Columbus State. I'm gonna ask who- whoever wants to be in charge of, of that august body, if you'll come over to the podium mic and, and introduce your, uh, your folks. I'll give you just a minute while the senators are settling in.

53. 0:25:57

    Welcome. Tell, tell us all good things about Columbus State and the area down there.

54. 0:26:03

    Good evening. My name is Undra Walker. I serve as the student body president of the Columbus State University Student Government Association. Um, thank you for having us here today. I'm having a great time here. Um, and I'm just grateful for the experience. Thank you.

55. 0:26:15

    Do you want to introduce any of your colleagues, or are they traveling, traveling incognito?

56. 0:26:19

    No. So with me, I have my speaker of the senate, Anaya Wilson. She's also our incoming SGA president for next year. And then our press secretary, Avery Hammond, who is our incoming vice president for the upcoming school year. Then I have our chief ex- chief executive officer, um, John Lester, and our advisor, Carly Henson.

57. 0:26:35

    Okay. Thank you, and welcome to you all.

58. 0:26:37

    Thank you.

59. 0:26:37

    Thank you for being here.

60. 0:26:39

    Absolutely.

61. 0:26:40

    Um, Senator, we're gonna go ahead and, and get, uh, to you. We're gonna let you tell us about your proposition, uh, Senate Bill 432, um, working off LC 610395S. Is that what you have, Senator?

62. 0:26:55

    Let's see.

63. 0:26:56

    Just-

64. 0:26:57

    Yes, sir.

65. 0:26:58

    Yes, sir. F- fire away. Tell us about your proposition.

66. 0:27:02

    All right. Senate Bill 432 addresses what is called strategic reserves for the university system of Georgia and the technical college system of Georgia. Strategic reserves refers to the authority of the university system of Georgia and the technical college system of Georgia to carry forward all or a portion of unspent revenues from one fiscal year to the next with, with certain limitations. Um, I have the ... I'm blessed to have a number of high-profile constituents that I represent, and one of them happens to be the chancellor of the university system of Georgia, and he asked me to carry this important legislation for him, and I'm proud to do so.

67. 0:27:50

    Uh, I've often heard the chancellor, when he was governor and in his other roles, say that government is not a business, but you can apply good bres- business principles to government. Um, and so that's what this, essentially what this bill is about. Uh, under Governor Perdue's leadership, then Governor Perdue in, in 2003, this was first established as a practice, uh, allowed for in law, uh, for the university system of Georgia to carry forward part of their, uh, basically net revenue, um, into future fiscal years.

68. 0:28:33

    And it's been reapproved by the General Assembly six times since 2003. It does have a sunset, uh, in July, I mean, June 30th of 2026, so I'm here to ask you all to extend that sunset another five years. Um, and- So it was first done in 2003, and then the Technical College System of Georgia was added to this ability to carry forward funds in 2007.

69. 0:29:11

    Um, the reason it's important is think about a college or university or technical college that wants to build a parking deck for their staff and students. Uh, this parking deck would be, uh, financed by parking fees, and the revenue for that, uh, would come into them, and they would need to maintain the parking deck and, uh, provide for any unexpected things that might happen to the parking deck.

70. 0:29:43

    And like in i- like a business or your household, they would not want to spend down every penny that they take in for the parking receipts in a fiscal year necessarily. Um, think about the, our research institutions that, especially our research institutions that get so much outside grant funding to work on, uh, technology or new developments or, or, you know, seed development, for example, at the University of Georgia, or Department of Defense contracts at, at Georgia Tech.

71. 0:30:19

    Um, those are long-term, uh, grants, long-term projects, and if they get the grant money and they aren't able to carry any of it forward, that, that would not be sustainable or practical to, uh, fulfill the, the, the grant requirements. So those are just two examples, um, on ... I do wanna make a point that they are not asking to carry forward any state appropriations. It is just tuition revenue, and that's capped at 3%, uh, for the university system and, uh, 15% for the technical college system, or it's this, uh, outside, uh, funding like, uh, grants or if they, let's say the Carl Vinson Institute does continuing education for an outside group.

72. 0:31:10

    They get fees. So that money is able to be carried forward. So that's essentially, we're just wanting to take, extend the, uh, sunset five years on a practice that's been going on since 2003, working well. Uh, and also, the other little thing this does is for de minimis amounts of money that are owed to the university system or technical college system from, basically from students, uh, they want to be able to, after endeavoring to collect the money, anything under $3,000, 3,000 or less, they want to be able to write that off so they can clean up their books.

73. 0:31:51

    Um, they would continue to try to collect the money, but the example that was given to me is oftentimes maybe a student, uh, comes and they, um, maybe they're on a Pell Grant, for example, and they drop out and they leave. Somehow money is owed back to the f- federal government for the entire Pell Grant, but the student has been there for some period of time, so there's tuition due, and they don't want to s- spend an inordinate amount of resources trying to collect small amounts of money.

74. 0:32:26

    So that's, that's what the bill does. Mr. Chairman, I'm happy to try to answer any questions. There are folks from the Technical College System of Georgia here and the University System of Georgia if there are detailed questions that I'm unable to answer.

75. 0:32:40

    Thank you, Mr. President. Uh, I appreciate you doing that. And to be clear, the, the write-off amounts has been in current law, uh, for a period of time as well. You're, you're just extending the sunset on that day. You're not, uh, we're not adding that. Um, I wanna tell you, your constituent must have a great deal of, uh, faith in you as, uh, the chancellor normally, you know, comes and, and speaks his mind before this body, uh, uh, you know, hi- himself, so he must have great faith in you as, uh, as, as his senator. You have a couple of questions if you would, uh, take them.

76. 0:33:11

    Yes, sir.

77. 0:33:12

    Dr. Clark, you have one, number four.

78. 0:33:15

    Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, my first question, you said that this, um... And first, thank you for the bill. You said that this has, uh, been going strong since twen- 2003. Uh, we've approved it six times every five years. Why do we have a sunset? Why is this not just law?

79. 0:33:35

    Well, as a, as a legislator and an appropriator of state dollars, I like the idea of the legislate, the general assembly having a part in this process and having the ability to have discussions and accountability, and I don't have any qualms that it's not being handled properly. I'm, I have, I'm really, really proud of our technical college system and our university system.

80. 0:34:06

    I think we all are. But as a practice, I just think it's a good practice for the general assembly to remain, uh, involved in the process. And by having a sunset, it requires, uh, every five years for the general assembly to review this, see if it's still working properly, and have an opportunity to have a s- you know, a say so in how it goes.

81. 0:34:33

    Um-

82. 0:34:33

    Senator, uh, number 28

83. 0:34:35

    Uh, yes, sir.

84. 0:34:36

    So real quick, do you think it would be fair to say that the ability to roll these funds over enabled the university system to make sure they held tuition rates flat when everybody in, else in the country was, uh, raising tuition?

85. 0:34:49

    I certainly think it helps. It helps them to be able to, um, pay for projects within their own, uh, budget and their own finances that they don't have to come to the legislature for every little thing to. If they had a major ac- HVAC system go out unexpectedly, they would have, uh- the, uh, funds available to handle that instead of having to wait till we reconvene and, you know, appropriate the money. And these HVAC systems can cost several hundred thousand dollars.

86. 0:35:24

    It kind of blows my mind what some of this stuff costs. I mean, it just gives them, like a business, like your household, some emergency funds and some flexibility. And yes, I think it helps keep, uh, a downward pressure on tuition.

87. 0:35:40

    Thank you.

88. 0:35:44

    Number 27, uh, Governor's Floor Leader, Matthew Gambill.

89. 0:35:48

    Thank you, Chairman. At the appropriate time, uh, subject to your discretion, I'd like to make a motion.

90. 0:35:54

    You're not recognized at this time. We might get back to you. We'll see. We, we don't have any speakers signed up for, for this. Um, this is the first time we've heard the bill. The bill is fairly straightforward. Um, the Rules Chairman has asked us to send, send some work to, to the Rules Committee. Um, if we can, I would, I would ask, uh, is, uh, is there an objection to, uh, waiving our policy here and then move, moving on Senate Bill 432 today? Does anybody have pause with that? Any pause?

91. 0:36:24

    Only for the-

92. 0:36:25

    We- we, I'll do them one at a time. If, if I ask later on, I'll, I'll ask the same question. But for, for this bill, does anybody question that? If, if not, then, uh, I would, if, Senator, unless you have anything further, and it looks like you may have a winner, I would, uh, cau- caution the overselling. But do you have anything further you want to close with?

93. 0:36:43

    No, sir. I would appreciate that very much.

94. 0:36:46

    Yes, sir. Uh, you're recognized this time, the Governor's Floor Leader.

95. 0:36:50

    Chairman. Uh, I motion do pass on Senate Bill 432.

96. 0:36:54

    I second, sir.

97. 0:36:55

    I have a motion and a second to move forward to the Rules Committee with do pass recommendation. That's Senate Bill 432, LC61-0395s. Is there any discussion? We are. I said that we have a motion and a second to move it forward to Rules. Is there discussion? Is there discussion? Hearing no discussion, all those in favor say, "Aye." Aye. Any opposed, no. It moves forward to Rules.

98. 0:37:20

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

99. 0:37:21

    Dr., Dr., Dr. Clark's keeping me honest, ma- making sure we voted. Yeah, thank you. Uh, who, who's gonna, um, be your-

100. 0:37:28

     Speaker Pro Tem Jan Jones.

101. 0:37:30

     Oh, that could hurt you. But no, I'm, you, that's a, that's a pretty good choice. Pretty good choice, Senator Walker. Yes, sir.

102. 0:37:37

     Thank y'all.

103. 0:37:37

     Thank, thank you, Senator.

104. 0:37:38

     Hey, don't forget us poor House members out there in Senate. We got plenty to give you.

105. 0:37:43

     Senator Walker, I'm gonna need an appointment later today. I'm just kidding. There you go. Thank you, Senator. Uh, we're, we're gonna move on now to Senate Bill 523. Senator Goodman, uh, want, wanna come forward? L- allow me, uh, while they're coming forward to, to set the stage here. We have, uh, Senate Bill 523 that comes to us from the Senate. Th- this was a, I guess, a companion bill to, uh, a, a bill this committee had heard before, House Bill 1363. You have in your packet, is LC61-0474s, a substitute to Senate Bill, uh, 523 that the senator and, um, um, Representative Silcox have worked on.

106. 0:38:23

     This is the language, is it not, uh, Representative Silcox and, and Senator, that, that passed this committee previously-

107. 0:38:30

     Yes, sir

108. 0:38:30

     ... in, in, the Bill LC, and I'm working off LC61-0474s. So-

109. 0:38:36

     I've got 6204A.

110. 0:38:38

     No, we're, we're, we're gonna work off-

111. 0:38:40

     Oh, I'm sorry. The old one

112. 0:38:41

     ... S- LC61. I'll, we're gonna talk about the, the one more change you have after that. But since this one is formatted in the, as, as the substitute to Senate Bill 523, this is, uh, LC61-0474s. This is the language that passed this, this committee, uh, previously, and the senator and the representative have worked for with that. If you'd tell us about the proposition, one or both of you. Senator?

113. 0:39:06

     I'd, Mr. Chairman, if it's okay, I, uh, I'd just like to say a few words and then go to my ag appropes. Um-

114. 0:39:13

     It's your time.

115. 0:39:14

     Okay. Thank you. Um, well, first off, I wanna thank Representative Silcox for, for, for carrying this bill and all the work that she's done on it, and you and the members of this committee. Um, this is something that I've been proud to be associated, uh, with. Uh, the lieutenant governor and his office brought it to me and suggested that I carry it. Um, it started several years ago, uh, when I was in Israel, when October the 7th hit. My mom and I were there on a, uh, on a trip, um, to the Holy Land, and, uh, needless to say, it was a pretty surreal experience being at the Ambassador Hotel in Jerusalem.

116. 0:39:49

     We could hear the Iron Dome rockets going off and machine guns off the balcony at the Ambassador Hotel there. Had to leave the country through, uh, through Jordan, and of course, our tour guide was a young man by the name of Foté. And Foté stayed with me and my mother, uh, even with, uh, rockets landing within 300 yards of his home. Uh, he stayed with me and my mother and helped me get out of, of the country. And, uh, as we were leaving, I, I, I was telling him about some of the legislation, uh, that we've been working on in Georgia. And, uh, you know, we hugged one another, and he asked me to come home and to try to help, uh, pass legislation, which w- what we were talking about that time was House Bill 30.

117. 0:40:27

     Um, going forward now with this bill here, you know, we're creating this Title VI coordinator. Um, 70% of all religious hate crimes are inflicted upon 2% of the population. And I would just say this, I think that even w- w- with the amendments we have here, we have protections, uh, for discrimination against, uh, our Jewish communities. But I don't, you know, we have protection for everyone in this bill, and that's, that's the most important thing.

118. 0:40:59

     But I think that there are extremes on both ends of the political spectrum that, in today's climate, condone antisemitism. And I'll just say this, history has shown us what happens when we allow antisemitism to take root in our society Because the last time that it happened and it, and the leaders of our grandparents' generation didn't stand up to it, and before it was over with, 60 million people died around the world, 6 million European Jews were slaughtered, and 435,000 Americans died before we got the genie back into the bottle.

119. 0:41:31

     And so as for me, I'm gonna always try to stand on the right side of history on this. Uh, this is not a red state or a blue state issue. New York and Connecticut, Tennessee, Arkansas, Oklahoma have s- uh, similar Title VI coordinators. And with that, I get long-winded, Mr. Chairman, and I'll, I'll, I'll just close with that. And if it's okay with Representative Silcox and with you, Mr. Chairman, I'll go on to my AG Approps meeting. But, uh, thank you for hearing this bill. Thank you for the work that, that we're, uh, have done on this collaboratively. And I just hope that we, the members of the General Assembly, when history judge us, judges us for our time here, that we stand on the right side of history.

120. 0:42:07

     Thank y'all.

121. 0:42:08

     And Senator b- b-

122. 0:42:10

     Thank you.

123. 0:42:10

     Senator, this is a serious matter and, but, but I, I do wanna rib you a little bit 'cause that House and Senate thing is- Yep ... Chairman Hatchett said y'all just vote the budget out. He did a good job. So I'll just leave it, leave it with you at that. Yes, sir. All right. Now thank, thank you much for your work on that, and you, you feel free to go about your business. All right. If we need you, we will call. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you very much.

124. 0:42:29

     Thank you.

125. 0:42:30

     Um, Representative Silcox, do you wanna tell us, uh, a- anything more? And then there's, there's a couple of questions that we'll have.

126. 0:42:35

     Certainly, certainly. This, there, I will say that there, there's been one small addition to the bill, um, since y'all saw it as a committee. Um, but the bill as you see it, we took out all references to antisemitism. Um, and there, like I said, there's one small change, and on my version, um, it is on, uh, line 66 of the bill. Is that correct, m- Mr. Chairman?

127. 0:43:01

     Yes, ma'am. And if, if I can, if the lady will let me pause here. M- members, what you have before you is the exact bill that we passed out of here previously written as a substitute to Senate Bill 523. What the lady is gonna suggest and what she actually had a sub prepared for, but it was inadvertently prepared as a sub to House Bill 1363.

128. 0:43:22

     Yes.

129. 0:43:22

     So I believe what she is gonna suggest is inserting on line 66, after the word complaints, um, you're gonna say, "and appeals." Is that not correct?

130. 0:43:33

     That's correct, Mr. Chairman.

131. 0:43:34

     Okay.

132. 0:43:34

     And the reason for that is if you look up above, um, at line 43, we, we delineate very clearly, "establish, maintain, and publicize a uniform complaint submission process available electronically in writing where everyone can report violations." Um, but I did wanna make sure that this included federal appeals, um, and, you know, because they, people still have that venue available to them to go to the federal courthouse. But I wanted to make this broader so that this encompasses, because, um, there has been some language suggested on, by others that would set up specific procedures, um, for, for all, for the whole state, and I would maintain that we have many, many different sizes and shapes of school systems in Georgia.

133. 0:44:26

     And so I think that this language is broad enough that they have to cover this. But, and yet at the same time, I think that this gives each area of the state, um, the flexibility to develop their own procedures, um, and how they wanna handle this with their school system for their area of the state. So, um, so that is the only, um, addition to the bill, and I'm grateful to the committee for perfecting this bill. I'm grateful to, um, Senator Goodman for, um, for accepting the changes that y'all made to the bill and, um, would so appreciate your favorable consideration.

134. 0:45:03

     Okay. You have a couple questions. Um, Dr. Clark.

135. 0:45:07

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Actually, uh, one of my questions was what was the difference between the two. Um, and so with that difference, um, has the State Department of Education, um, weighed in on how they, uh, would be able to implement this law, you know, in practice?

136. 0:45:26

     There have been discussions with the DOE. Um, but again, I think the language here is broad enough for them that they, they would be fine with, with it as is because it gives them the flexibility in the rulemaking process to, to vary that, um, per the area of the state and the school system involved.

137. 0:45:46

     All right. Um, but they'd have it made, like a...

138. 0:45:49

     No. They haven't given me a letter or anything.

139. 0:45:50

     Okay, got it.

140. 0:45:50

     There wasn't time to do that.

141. 0:45:52

     All right. I understand. Thank you.

142. 0:45:53

     Thank you.

143. 0:45:54

     A couple more questions, Chris, um, before we run out. Go ahead.

144. 0:45:59

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. The person is here from the State Superintendent's office if he wanted to comment for, um, Representative Clark. Um, the one thing I want to know is does the State of Georgia have a civil rights division?

145. 0:46:17

     Does the State of Georgia have the s- a civil rights division? No.

146. 0:46:21

     Okay. Because I noticed that-

147. 0:46:23

     No, this would be the first time that we are putting any of the civil rights law into Georgia law, um, would be to include Title VI in this. And so it would be a, it would be a major step forward for the state, in my opinion, in terms of handling discrimination.

148. 0:46:38

     Okay. But who would handle it?

149. 0:46:40

     Again, there would be a statewide coordinator that would, um, that would be the head of this for the state, and they would develop the framework within the different school systems as to how everybody makes their way through the process, um, up to that point.

150. 0:46:57

     So is this person legal? Is that a judge, a lawyer? I mean, what qualifications would they have?

151. 0:47:03

     You know, I think the great news is we have already this system in place with our colleges and universities, and so I think we have a great model that they could follow, follow-

152. 0:47:14

     Thank you

153. 0:47:14

     ... in terms of who is chosen, but that's a great question.

154. 0:47:17

     Thank you.

155. 0:47:18

     Thank you, Representative Burnough. O- one of the things I wanna make clear here, and I'm, I'm gonna look at our attorney down there, and I believe I'm saying this right, there is already a federal process for these discrimination claims.

156. 0:47:28

     Yes.

157. 0:47:28

     Nothing we're doing today circumvents that. That's always available. It was available yesterday, it's available today, and it'll be available tomorrow. What we're doing is adding the opportunity at the state level. What, what we read and what we've gotten advice on in, in line 43, when it says, you know, "Establish, maintain, and publicize a uniform complaint process," that, that is a, a wide-reaching thing. That, it then included, as the lady suggests down in line 66, to specifically say, "Complaint and appeal," to make clear we are doing this in deference to the aggrieved party so that they can complain locally.

158. 0:48:07

     They, they, they might be able to complain directly to the state. They can always complain to the federal government so that they can get the best, um, and most timely, uh, response to that. Uh, number 26, uh, Representative Washburn.

159. 0:48:20

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. I do not have a question, but at the appropriate time, I'd like to make a motion.

160. 0:48:24

     We'll, we'll come back to that. Um, Representative Park.

161. 0:48:31

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, so, uh, Representative Burnough brought up an excellent point that I just wanted to follow up on. Um, so it is true that Georgia's one of three states that does not have, um, comprehensive state-level protections with respect to discrimination. Is that correct?

162. 0:48:45

     That's correct.

163. 0:48:46

     Uh, but could you speak to, um, whether or not you're aware as to whether or not antisemitism is worse in Georgia as a result of the failure to have comprehensive state-level anti-discrimination protections compared to other states?

164. 0:48:59

     Y- you know, I don't have any stats on that, um, Mr. Webb, but I will tell you that it is a problem in my district.

165. 0:49:04

     Yeah. A- so hopefully, you know, we'll, we'll be able to... Hopefully this body will be able to move forward, along with passing this bill, but also including broader protections for all communities that continue to face discrimination. Would you agree with that?

166. 0:49:15

     I would agree with that. Thank you.

167. 0:49:17

     Thank you.

168. 0:49:19

     Dr. Clark, do you have something?

169. 0:49:20

     Yeah.

170. 0:49:20

     Mr. Clark.

171. 0:49:23

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. You actually, um, brought up something that br- sparked a question. Um-

172. 0:49:31

     Hey, it's not me

173. 0:49:32

     ... Um, so we have a federal... This office already exists at the federal level. We're trying to basically bring this down to the state level. Is there now, like, an order of operations for a person that is aggrieved? Like, do they have to start at the local level, then go to the state level, and then eventually go to the federal level? Or do they get to choose? Is it like a menu? Like, I would like to just file a federal one-

174. 0:49:57

     Everybody gets to choose. We're all about choice.

175. 0:50:00

     Okay, so it's a, it's like a menu. Okay.

176. 0:50:01

     Yes.

177. 0:50:02

     Thank you.

178. 0:50:03

     My, my understanding of that, Dr. Clark, is, a- again, I'm gonna go back to nothing we're doing today circumvents your ability to... The, the fact that you would file a complaint at the state level doesn't mean you have to wait for that to be adjudicated before you could file a federal. That, that is, I mean, we can't... I mean, quite frankly, we can't preempt state law. I mean, I'm sorry, we-

179. 0:50:20

     Federal law

180. 0:50:20

     ... we with state law can't preempt federal law.

181. 0:50:23

     Right.

182. 0:50:23

     Uh, and then at the, at the state level where the rules and regs come out, we'll get a chance to look at that should this pass the, the, the House and Senate in the same form and is signed by the governor to make sure that the rules and regs come in. In, in my mind, that could be a dual pl- it could also be a parallel path because one might get a faster investigation by making the local folks aware, then sending it up to the state and waiting on an investigator to come down to the state. So the idea here is to, to make this the best possible remedy for an aggrieved party.

183. 0:50:56

     Yes, ma'am.

184. 0:50:56

     My follow-up to that would just be, are all of these people talking to each other? Because let's say I feel like I have a complaint, and I'm like, "I'm gonna do every level. I'm gonna go to the local level. I'm gonna go to the state level. I'm gonna go to the federal level." Now I've got three Title VI complaints out there. Are they talking to each other? Or-

185. 0:51:16

     Again, uh, this would be, on the state level, it'd be, it would be a coordinator that would hopefully be able to say, "Well, are you gonna address this, you know, locally? Are you gonna... You know, what is your, what is your plan?"

186. 0:51:27

     Mm-hmm.

187. 0:51:27

     "Or do you have, do you have an appeal filed in federal court?"

188. 0:51:30

     Okay. Thank you.

189. 0:51:31

     So that's the idea is to, to give people choice, but, um, make everybody aware of their selection.

190. 0:51:39

     And I, I can't answer, answer that question if they're talking 'cause they don't exist today. So I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm not, I'm not being flippant with that. It's just we, we would hope they would work together, and then we, you wouldn't be carrying on parallel investigations. Normally, when a state and a federal agency is investigating a crime that... If, if a kidnapping happens across state lines, local folks may be helping with the investigation, but it's, since it's across state lines, it's a federal case. So we would hope those folks would be working together. Um, Carter Barrett, um, Vice Chairman of the committee.

191. 0:52:08

     Thank you, Chairman Silcox, for this very nice bill. I, I've received just tremendous, uh, positive feedback from my constituents already about this bill. I'm curious if, if you're, in the district you represent, are you already hearing a lot o- on that bill?

192. 0:52:20

     I have. I actually included this, um, in my recent newsletter and, um, or email to my district, and I got some very nice comments, and I think people are most appreciative.

193. 0:52:34

     Representative Burnough.

194. 0:52:36

     Um, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Unfortunately, I have not received a positive. I've received more, um, negative comments, um, and not that, you know, I just read what people ask me. But now this is no longer geared towards one particular-

195. 0:52:55

     It is not

196. 0:52:56

     ... faith.

197. 0:52:56

     It is all faiths.

198. 0:52:58

     All faiths. Okay.

199. 0:52:59

     Yes, ma'am.

200. 0:52:59

     And so, and, and, and I say this and I don't mean it in a negative, but just like that, the teacher who lost his life and his families doesn't want them to be charged, and, uh, they have that right as, um, because that is their loved one. S- I just wonder, could something happen with this where someone starts to say, "Oh, so and so, he's such a nice kid," or, "She's such a nice kid. I know they didn't do that," and those. And so then you kind of, the waters get murky.

201. 0:53:31

     And so then some children are kind of pushed

202. 0:53:35

     and they're okay and nothing happens to them, and then others, the hammer is on them. That's one of my concerns.

203. 0:53:42

     Well, the problem now is right now these kids are being discriminated actively in the, in the schools, and there's not a person in charge to deal with their grievances. And so the, the, you know, the, the principal doesn't know what, what to do with this, and the administrator, the teacher, doesn't know what to do with this. And they may try to work out if it's just a bullying situation or something, but some of these things are, are more ongoing, um, and it's a pattern of behavior that's really a problem. And so they, I do think that it warrants a new position where there can be a coordinator for these complaints, um, and it's addressed hopefully, hopefully locally, um, and things are settled without a lawsuit.

204. 0:54:25

     But if necessary, you know, they encourage them to go to the federal courthouse.

205. 0:54:29

     I just still think we need to have a legal person, a legal person, not just a coordinator. I don't think that's sufficient.

206. 0:54:37

     And I, I feel certain that that person would be a legal person. But like I said, this is not in the bill, and, um, but we have a great model with the colleges and the universities-

207. 0:54:46

     Okay

208. 0:54:46

     ... and those are legal people.

209. 0:54:48

     Okay. Thank you.

210. 0:54:49

     Yes, ma'am.

211. 0:54:50

     Yeah, Representative Burnough, that, that's an excellent point. I, I think the coordinator doesn't say that they have to have a law degree-

212. 0:54:55

     Right

213. 0:54:55

     ... but I think in, in practice when they advertise for that, the person that sits in that position would, would absolutely have one. Um, uh, we had a number of p- speakers to sign up, uh, to the bill. Um, uh, this is a new, new bill to the Senate, same bill to us. Uh, we, we have about four. Um, do you still have, uh, a wish to comment given the fact that, that they were, um, that we have changed it out? 'Cause I know some of the questions were making sure that we changed out the bill. Uh, if you do, I'm gonna give you a coup- couple minutes each to, to do that, and, um, then we will, uh, move forward.

214. 0:55:29

     You, uh, Chairman Silcox, you're welcome to sit there or walk to the podium.

215. 0:55:34

     Okay.

216. 0:55:34

     You were the first to sign up. Yes, ma'am.

217. 0:55:35

     Sure. Thank you, and thank you again, Chairman, uh, Chairman Silcox and members of the committee. Uh, my name is Micaela Arteaga. I've spoken to you all on, uh, the House version of this. Um, we do support this bill. I wanna be clear about that. Um, we think this is objectively a, a step in the right direction to protecting kids who would be vulnerable at all of our K-12 schools. Um, our concern is rooted in some of the procedural hurdles that we've seen with the Office of Civil Rights, the federal version of this, where you have limited resources, even with federal resources, and an extensive backlog of students who are not having their complaints heard and addressed.

218. 0:56:12

     Um, that, the way the process is laid out in this bill for K-12 replicates that response even with the addition of the appeals language. Um, there's a couple of reasons why. The first is that, uh, the Department of Education does not have the authority to dictate school system policy. That comes from the State Board of Education. Um, if a sc- That being said, m- a majority of our school systems do have a Title VI investigation and complaint resolution policy, but that is not rooted in any state or federal code. That is based off of guidance from the federal, uh, the federal government, which could change at any point.

219. 0:56:47

     Um, tying it to an actual established code that reflects what is attempted to be adopted at the d- at the department level would clarify that and give a appropriate legal anchor point to cross-reference when you are saying, "We want systems to be able to appeal, or individuals to be able to appeal these complaints up to the state level." Um, I would... Our final concern would just be that, uh, because the penalties that are laid out in this bill have to do with, uh, withholding funding from school systems, we would once again urge the body to consider requiring the complaints system, or complaint process, to start at the local system.

220. 0:57:26

     That would require school systems to adopt a policy, which again, most of them already have. So that will feel redundant for y'all, but it provides a legal anchor point for cross-reference, again, to create a true appeals process. Um, I believe this bill already has language that protects any individual's right to bypass straight up to the federal process. As many of you know, the federal process is, um, substantially reduced right now. Um, those are our major concerns. Again, uh, I, I would defer to the expertise of the department here.

221. 0:57:59

     They know what their capacity is. But we want to just flag that if we are serious about trying to make sure kids get help, distributing that responsibility across all 1, I guess it's like 250 sy- uh, systems if we include charters, and allowing that to be addressed at that level before escalating it up to the state makes it much more likely that students can receive the care and services, uh, that we all want them to have and that I, and I know this body also wants to them to have. So thank you very much.

222. 0:58:25

     Thank you. Uh, Asku,

223. 0:58:30

     Uh, Aska? We, we have to get that right.

224. 0:58:33

     We got it this time.

225. 0:58:33

     I can't ever know if that's a U or an A.

226. 0:58:35

     No, no, that's... Thank you. Um, I had a friend write down my name, so I'll blame it on her. Um, thank you for letting me speak to all of you again. Um, my name is Aska Mahmood. I serve as the executive director at CAIR Georgia, the Georgia chapter of the Council on American Islamic Relations. Um, I thank the sponsors and this committee for considering the amendment to make sure that this bill is more equitable and includes all faith groups equally. I appreciate that the sponsors and the authors have, um, accommodated our concerns. Um, like I had mentioned last time, we have recorded a 520% increase in anti-Muslim incidents, um, in this state over the past five years.

227. 0:59:10

     And, you know, this delay in addressing Title VI complaints is very close to our hearts. So we really look forward to benefiting from the efficiencies that this, uh, bill and law will provide to our communities as well. Thank you again.

228. 0:59:23

     Thank you. Um, am I right here, Eulean?

229. 0:59:34

     Thanks, everyone. Um-

230. 0:59:35

     Chairman, um, I w- I'm gonna keep mine short because my main things that I was going to be speaking about have already been removed and addressed, and really appreciate that the, um, committee specifically is going to be amending, the sponsors are going to be amending it to include all faiths and making sure that that's Title VI prohibition on race, color, national origin discrimination, um, is going to be addressed by, for everyone under that umbrella. So thank you.

231. 0:59:57

     Thank you very much. Noor? Yes, ma'am.

232. 1:00:02

     Hello. I spoke to some of you, uh, last time. I'm Noor, I'm a student at Georgia State University. I've been in the public university system since I was a freshman. I'm now a second-year master's student. Um, last time I testified, I had the same recommendation and hope that the language will be amended to include all faith groups. As someone who has faced this firsthand in, um, the university level and has never been addressed adequately, since the concern is that all religious groups and any form of discrimination must be addressed adequately.

233. 1:00:32

     Uh, s- one of the speakers earlier today also mentioned experiences of anti-Semitism and how it's rising, and just as anti-Semitism is rising, Islamophobia is rising, as well as anti-Hindu sentiment. All forms of hate are things that need to be taken into consideration, so we just wanted to reiterate, and I wanted to echo, to thank you all for considering this amendment, and to just remind you that it is not just one faith group that suffers from this, and there are the same consequences when it comes to mass genocides, when it comes to violence, when it comes to the way that students like myself have been called names.

234. 1:01:06

     We have been threatened with violence. It's a- applicable to all faith groups and all forms of discrimination. Thank you.

235. 1:01:16

     Um, Representative, uh, Burnough, did you have another question?

236. 1:01:21

     Um, yes, um, Mr. Chairman, thank you. I do, from one of the speakers said that if it was in code, that it would carry more weight, and I just wanna... You know, I don't know if you can do that now, but it does make a bigger difference when it is a code, as opposed to just, um, uh... What did, what's the person called?

237. 1:01:45

     Coordinator.

238. 1:01:45

     What's your per- the person-

239. 1:01:46

     Coordinator.

240. 1:01:47

     Coordinator. It does make a difference. I had a piece of legislation and, um, when the person found out it was a code, they treated me differently than just, um, just the wording. So code, codes carry a lot of weight, and then they're there for longer periods of time. Thank you.

241. 1:02:05

     Thank you. Um, I have n- no further questions. I'm gonna, uh, recognize Whip Park. He-

242. 1:02:13

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, be- before making, um, a motion at the appropriate time, uh, Chair Lady Silcox, I d- I did just wanna say I appreciate you being receptive, uh, to the amendments, um, a- and addressing the concerns that, uh, a lot of us were, uh, emailed about. Um, I do not, uh, frankly, uh, appreciate the comment with respect to choice of discrimination, uh, certainly when at the state level we don't have comprehensive civil rights protections. We're one of three states that does not, and of course, you passed legislation, the majority passed legislation, uh, last year that undermined a lot of nondiscrimina- nondiscrimination ordinances at the local level.

243. 1:02:48

     And so because this would be a step in the right direction to ensure comprehensive civil rights at the federal level, uh, Mr. Chair, at the appropriate time, I'd like to make a motion to do pass as amended with, um, the words and appeals-

244. 1:03:00

     Let, let me just, just from a procedural standpoint, give you, if, I'll re- recognize you a second time for your amendment if we can get a, a motion just to pass, and then we'll, we'll come back to you for the amendment. Do you have a motion do pass?

245. 1:03:11

     Motion do pass.

246. 1:03:12

     On, on LC61-0474s. Is there a second?

247. 1:03:17

     Second.

248. 1:03:18

     All right, I have a motion and a second, uh, that this do pass. This is the Senate, substitute to Senate Bill 523, LC61-0474s. Under discussion, I recognize Whip Park for an amendment.

249. 1:03:30

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, on line 66, after the word complaints, I would move to add the words and appeals.

250. 1:03:39

     Is everyone clear on the amendment? The gentleman wishes to add, after the word complaints, on line 66, and appeals. So it would read ensuring complaints and appeals are handled in a timely manner, kept confidential, and investigated. That would be the entirety of the new line 66. Everyone clear on the amendment? Is there objection to the amendment?

251. 1:04:02

     Second.

252. 1:04:03

     Uh, is there a second to the amendment? Well, it, uh, I'll go with is there a second?

253. 1:04:06

     Second.

254. 1:04:06

     Hear a second.

255. 1:04:07

     And, you want-

256. 1:04:09

     Yeah, just, just 'cause I don't like Park.

257. 1:04:13

     Well, well, you're not recognized for that objection at this, at this moment. So I have a motion and a second. I'll, uh, if there's no further discussion on the amendment, all those in favor say aye.

258. 1:04:21

     Aye.

259. 1:04:22

     Any opposed, no? The amendment passes. We now have before us the main question, uh, LC61-0474s, as amended. Is there further discussion? Is there further discussion? Hearing none, um, all in favor of bringing LC61-0474s, as amended, out with a do pass recommendation by committee substitute, signify by saying aye.

260. 1:04:47

     Aye.

261. 1:04:48

     Any opposed, no? It moves forward with a do pass recommendation. Thank you very much, uh-

262. 1:04:53

     Thank you very much

263. 1:04:54

     ... Ms. Silcox. Senator, come see us. Um, we, uh, now are moving on to Senator Payne's proposition,

264. 1:05:06

     Senate Bill 556. Senator, you gotta get a lower bill number next time, and you won't have to wait as long.

265. 1:05:14

     Senator Payne, tell us about your prep- uh, preposition. Tell us your, with prepositions, tell us about your proposition.

266. 1:05:19

     Uh, yes, Mr. Chairman, thank you, and committee. This, uh, this bill has a high c- bill number because it came late in the session because it was not, uh, realized by the Department of Education that they had this need until, and once they realized the need, they, it was kind of a rush to get this in to us before, while we were in session, to take care of this. So, but this is, uh, just adds the addition of fine art courses to Hope Rigor course list. Um- The bill will add advanced placement AP International Baccalaureate, uh, and upper level Cambridge fine arts courses to the Hope, Georgia Hope Scholarship rigor course list in OCGA 20-2-157, allowing them to be considered in this, in the calculation of grade point averages for determining Hope eligibility.

267. 1:06:09

     Uh, beginning July 1, 2026, this bill would c- include the following coursework subjects on the rigor course list for the students in grades nine through 12. It'd be English, mathematics, science, social studies, foreign language, and the, with the addition of fine arts, um, to meet the Cambridge. Uh, the Georgia Department of Education had requested that these courses be added to the Georgia p- Student Finance Commission. However, the Georgia St- Student Finance Commission is unavailable to do so. Do this change without statutory change required new legislation, and that's why we brought forward this bill in the last hour before crossover.

268. 1:06:50

     You have a couple que- you, you have generated a couple of questions, uh, Senator. Uh, Dr. Clark.

269. 1:06:56

     Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, so on line 30, um, where we add Cambridge to the list of, um, programs that, uh, Georgia Student Finance will need to, you know, calculate grade point averages for, for Hope, we're adding Cambridge. So are you saying today, right now, these Cambridge courses in English, math, science, uh, social studies and foreign language, if they exist-

270. 1:07:23

     By adding fine arts, we're meeting all the curriculas for all three of those. And, and that, that fine arts is not already in there for the baccalaureate and so we're just adding that so it's all one size fits all for all three.

271. 1:07:37

     So fine art ... So fine arts is English, math, science, and social studies. Is that what you're saying? No, that's not what you're saying.

272. 1:07:47

     It's, it's with English, mathematics, science, social studies, fine arts, and foreign language.

273. 1:07:52

     So the way I'm, I'm reading this, it's only fine arts courses that will be looped into, um, eligibility for Hope Scholarship. What if you take an Cambridge course in English or a Cambridge course in math or ...

274. 1:08:13

     It's already in there.

275. 1:08:14

     It's already ... That's, that's what I was trying to get to on-

276. 1:08:16

     The only thing that's not in there is the fine arts.

277. 1:08:18

     Got it. Thank you.

278. 1:08:21

     Representative Burnough.

279. 1:08:24

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you for the bill. Um, is there a AP exam and a, um, baccalaureate exam in fine arts already?

280. 1:08:34

     I would have to-

281. 1:08:36

     I can, I can

282. 1:08:37

     ... refer to the Department of Education on that.

283. 1:08:40

     Yeah. L- let me, let me t- let me try this if I can. W- uh, Representative Burnough, will you hold that over and we'll, when we have the other speakers come up, we'll ask it again to them?

284. 1:08:49

     That's fine.

285. 1:08:49

     J- just so we can go, in case they have, uh, your, your other members have questions of, of the gentleman. Uh, the governor's floor leader, Matthew Gambill.

286. 1:08:58

     Thank you, Chairman.

287. 1:08:59

     Representative

288. 1:08:59

     And mine is really more of a clarification just to make sure I understand. Um, if a student was in AP art fa- uh, art class, um, that is already covered. No, that would be covered by this legislation.

289. 1:09:15

     Right.

290. 1:09:15

     So that if that student, if this doesn't pass right n- uh, as is, then that student is not going to be receiving the same level of recognition for that AP art class, uh-

291. 1:09:27

     Correct.

292. 1:09:28

     Okay. All right. That, that's good to know. Thank you.

293. 1:09:31

     And Mark, Matt Cardoza's here if you would like him to come to the table with me, that'd be fine.

294. 1:09:36

     I'm sorry?

295. 1:09:36

     I said Matt Cardoza's here and he, he can speak to this.

296. 1:09:39

     Well, uh, it's, it's your, your time at the table.

297. 1:09:41

     Okay. Okay. I'm, I'm-

298. 1:09:41

     If you wanna invite him up, I'm, you're welcome to do that. I'm gonna go to, uh, Representative Barnes over here and she's got a question about ... Mr. Cardoza, you're welcome to join the, the senator if you'd like.

299. 1:09:50

     Yeah. Absolutely.

300. 1:09:52

     He, he, he, uh, he has used a lifeline. Representative Barnes.

301. 1:09:56

     Phone a friend.

302. 1:09:57

     Well, some people just bring the lifeline with them. I just thought I would ask if we need it.

303. 1:10:00

     That's right.

304. 1:10:00

     Representative.

305. 1:10:01

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, my question is kind of on along the lines of Representative Burnough. Um, if, if there is a AP test already formulated for this class, and has it been measured against the other AP tests? And also, I see your head shaking, so I guess that's the answer. And then my next question is, what are the fine arts class that are included in this? Like photography, or is it just art, or ...

306. 1:10:33

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, a couple of responses to that, and I know there are people in the, in the audience who could get even more specific than that. But there are a handful of courses that relate to fine arts within, um, that College Board has with AP, International Baccalaureate, as well as Cambridge, and they determine what those, those rigor courses are. Uh, and that's what would fit into this for the purposes of Hope, uh, courses of rigor. Specific to fine arts, as your, to your question earlier, uh, Cambridge courses that are in other disciplines are already included for Hope course of rigor.

307. 1:11:11

     Did that get what you needed, uh, Representative Barnes?

308. 1:11:14

     Um, I will-

309. 1:11:15

     You gonna wait?

310. 1:11:15

     I don't think she knows the list of fine arts programs.

311. 1:11:18

     Okay. She, we'll, we'll, uh, we have a couple of speakers. That may be one of them. Um, number 28. Chairman Carpenter waves. You've worn him out. Um, I, I have, I have no further questions, uh, this afternoon. We have a couple of folks that, uh, uh, signed up to speak. Ms. Haslett, do you wanna come and ... Been chomping at the bit there to, to get, to get ... No, I'm ... Thank you for being here, and thank you for waiting. Yes, ma'am.

312. 1:11:41

     No, I appreciate it.

313. 1:11:42

     You're, you're recognized. Tell us about this proposition.

314. 1:11:44

     So first I wanna thank you very much. Thank you, Chairman, um, and thank you, Committee, for meeting with me today. My name is Marya Haslett. I am the Georgia Art Education Association, uh, president, and also provided, uh- A lot of the research for this particular bill. So I am very versed in what is, um... And I've been teaching AP visual arts for about 24 years, so, and I've been a reader and, and all those, those sort of things. So I am standing here to basically stand on behalf of about 467,000 fine art students across the state.

315. 1:12:19

     Um, currently, there are no AP, IB, or Cambridge fine arts courses that count towards the HOPE Scholarship. So what ends up happening is we have about 39% of students take fine arts classes, and less than 1% are actually able to stay through AP, because they have to have prerequisites in order to stay to, for AP. And one of the things to think about is when you're supporting AP at the top, you're supporting a framework of 475 fine arts courses across the state, and that's, that's music, that's chorus, that's theater, that's everything, and we have a lot of crossover as well.

316. 1:12:54

     And when we can keep them for three to four years, we also are kind of a safety net. We keep them in school. Um, almost 100% of our students graduate. And when we can be with them, we're also their mentors. But a lot of them are pushed to other courses because they need the rigor courses in order to get the HOPE Scholarship. So what we end up seeing is that we end up losing kids and not keeping them as long as we want to. They lose that opportunity. And understand, too, that not everyone's gonna go into an art field. Now, we do have a, like a 62 or billion dollar creative industries in, in the State of Georgia.

317. 1:13:31

     Um, a lot of those industries hire from out of state. We're trying to increase and open up the pipeline of our Georgia kids to be able to get to these industries so that they can stay in Georgia, and they can be a part of that industry. Um, and if they, uh, don't end up going into the industry, then they're patrons, and those matter too, because that all contributes to the economic impact of the creative industries. So it's a huge thing when we can keep them for all four years. We can also mentor them. And one of my favorite things to do personally is to sit down with kids and to problem solve about what their next steps are, no matter what direction they're gonna go in.

318. 1:14:08

     And a lot of kids, to answer your question about the, the different courses, when they're not able to earn the HOPE Scholarship, either 'cause they can't get the fourth, uh, rigor class that they need for the HOPE Scholarship, or we're the only AP, we kept them in school, we're the only AP that, that they ended up graduating with, but it doesn't help them get the HOPE Scholarship, it ends up hurting either way, and there's a lot that we end up just losing in the mix. Um, and so we are asking that you consider it is, uh, five AP, six IB courses.

319. 1:14:43

     And the, all of the courses that are, that are taken, they all end up with a test. They do get the college credit when they pass the test, but it doesn't count towards the HOPE. And also, in talking to professors at UGA recently, they were saying that this would also help them a great deal because they want the art students to help them get into UGA so that they can go to... UGA has one, one of the top visual arts departments in the country, um, as a public university, and they would love to be able to grow their program as well, and this would help them, and it would help other university programs across the state.

320. 1:15:18

     And I'll be glad to answer any questions about any of it.

321. 1:15:21

     I, I cut the lights on here. Um, Representative Burnough, is, you're gonna get to, uh, your, back to your question. Yes, ma'am.

322. 1:15:28

     Oh, thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you. Um, at one time, I was the instructional lead teacher at a high school, so I was in charge of giving the AP exam. Um, how does their AP exam work for the fine arts?

323. 1:15:43

     So for visual arts, we have, we actually have four tests. We have AP art history, which is a straight history test, and, you know, written multiple choice type of test. For the visual art side, uh, they submit a portfolio, and they have to show writing evidence. So it's very similar to an AP research or AP seminar class, where they are researching. They have what's called a sustained investigation that they research throughout the year, and they're showing their visual documentation as their portfolio, and then they have to present it digitally, and then that is scored. Um, and then on the scoring end, it may seem like it's, that's a, a weird thing to score, but, um, when you talk to the College Board, visual arts has one of the fewest discrepancy rates, which means that they're, the people who score are very much even across the board.

324. 1:16:28

     And, uh, and they do a really good job grading these, um, based on rubrics and so forth.

325. 1:16:35

     Okay. Thank you.

326. 1:16:36

     Yes. Mm-hmm.

327. 1:16:38

     Representative Barnes, did you have something, have something else?

328. 1:16:41

     Yes, I was interested in, um, you have visual arts, and what else is, is categorized as fine arts?

329. 1:16:48

     So visual arts and music, theater, dance, chorus, and this would also include, like, AP music theory. It includes AP art history. You know, IB has, has dance in addition to all of the areas of fine arts as well in the schools that have IB. And then Cambridge has fine arts classes as well. So it would count, it would give all of those kids a chance to have that count. And they're the only AP, IB, or Cambridge courses that don't count towards the HOPE Scholarship.

330. 1:17:17

     So we'll have a AP dance final comparable to other AP courses?

331. 1:17:24

     So for dance, I believe it's mostly IB, but yes, it would be, um, and they still have to... It's a very rigorous process to do either A- AP or IB or Cambridge, because they're, they're working at a college level for sure.

332. 1:17:37

     Okay.

333. 1:17:37

     So it's giving them that credit.

334. 1:17:38

     I'm not taking it away from the dancers-

335. 1:17:39

     No, you're good

336. 1:17:39

     ... if y'all are listening.

337. 1:17:40

     No, you're, it's all good. It is a smaller percentage, but they-

338. 1:17:43

     Mm-hmm

339. 1:17:43

     ... they do count too.

340. 1:17:46

     We have, yeah, a couple more.

341. 1:17:48

     Vice Chairman Corbett. So e- for either of you, um, my, my kid, uh, West Forsyth High School- Yep ... took a crazy number of classes- Yep ... and did very well on them. I'm assuming that most kids who are doing AP, a lot of AP and IB, et cetera, they're not missing out on HOPE, but rather in the absence of this legislation, they're having to take more classes. Mm-hmm. Is that a fair assumption? I mean, it is in some cases. There are a lot of kids who do earn HOPE in other ways, but we also have, uh...

342. 1:18:18

     So I teach at Forsyth Central, so you're, you know, very familiar with that. And so for instance, at Forsyth Central, there's a film academy and there's humanities academy, and there's different things as well. So w- I've had students who, for instance, were in the film academy, and they had me for two years, and they took AP art history, they took additional film classes to satisfy that. But none of those counted towards their rigor classes, and so they were short one class. And also another thing to consider as well is that now we have a lot of kids who are, who are taking classes that are at the high school level in eighth grade, and so there's multiple classes that kids can earn credit.

343. 1:18:55

     Physical science is probably the most well-known, but now there are additional ones, too. And so it used to be when they set up the rigor list, it was like, "Oh, well, they have to have these core classes every year, so we know that it's covered," and that's why there were four. Well, now they're coming in with that, but nothing in eighth grade counts towards the HOPE Scholarship. And so if they don't earn it in other ways, then they are going to miss it. And so a lot of times it's that rigor class, that fourth rigor class, that is the preventative, um, aspect. So if they're with us, then it hurts, it can hurt them.

344. 1:19:27

     It doesn't hurt everyone, but they do end up having to take additional classes, and some people do it online or do it in the summer, but others can't do that, so... Representative Clemmons. Thank you so much for bringing the bill, and as a former high school college and career director- Mm-hmm ... um, this is immediately something that I know for sure our kids and parents need. Mm-hmm. Um, and it's not just HOPE that they might miss, it's the Zell part of the HOPE- Right ... that our kids who really are highest achievers in those areas would miss.

345. 1:20:00

     And so I'm glad to see this, but I would like to talk about what's behind that. Mm-hmm. And that is teachers who have the credentials to teach AP- Sure ... whatever it is, whatever the subject, and the fact that we pay them more in order- Yeah ... for them to be able to teach our students at a higher level, and then when we don't give our students the support that they need inside of their GPA, then we lose all the way around. So I hope this sounds like a win-win situation, and I want to thank you for bringing it, Senator.

346. 1:20:32

     We appreciate it. Yeah. Thank you very much. Dr. Clark, you're recognized. Um, thank you, Mr. Chair. Um, and this probably is not a question for you because it sounds like you're more experienced with AP. Um, again, I'm just, it's very glaring to me that we're adding Cambridge to the code here, and so I don't know if there's anyone present. We have that next. We, we have a speaker next. All right. I'll wait for my question then. Okay. Uh, in- Allow me if I can. I, I, I too have a, a question.

347. 1:21:05

     And, and thank you. You have no further questions. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. I, I do have that question and, and for that reason, we're, we're gonna, you know, hold this over today. We won't slow the Senate down long, which would, to make sure that we might be able to find generic language that fits Cambridge, but might, if there were another person, another group that could teach that, we wouldn't have to be back, uh, again. And, and we can, um, maybe look at that. But we might get the answer to that soon from Sherry Reach.

348. 1:21:31

     Yes, ma'am. Thank you so much, Chairman, and the rest of you committee members. I appreciate the opportunity to be here today. I'm Sherry Reach. I'm with Cambridge International. I've worked with them for the past 26 years after starting the first course in the state of Florida back in 1996. So I'm very pleased to be here, and I was asked to come primarily to answer your questions. But I would like to mention before I start that we are currently in two school districts. We started in Clayton County, and, um, that was five years ago, and we're very pleased to say Elite Scholars has been doing very well with this program.

349. 1:22:06

     And then we also have moved on to another district, um, and it's Troup County, and we are working with Callaway High School. They just adopted this program a couple of years ago, so they're just getting started, but they're really doing well on the exams, I will say, and they are quite rigorous exams. We're having conversations right now with another district, and that's, um, Wheeler County, so that's just underway. Um, we're very excited about providing more opportunities. I've heard numerous questions come up about the Cambridge courses as they pertain to fine arts, and I would be pleased to share with you that in other states, we have about nine fine art courses available at the highest level that are being taught.

350. 1:22:44

     So when we say fine arts, for example, that includes a lot of different areas. It includes, um, painting, it includes photography, it includes drawing, it includes, um, all sorts of different things that you can imagine. And we have individual courses for each of those, and one exam that's tailored to whatever they are using, because they have to do a lot of projects to demonstrate mastery in addition to taking a traditional test. So there's a very wide range of courses available. Drama is available right now in this state.

351. 1:23:17

     Um, we just introduced that class a year ago, so it's just, uh, getting ready to get started, so we're excited about that. I will mention that in addition to all of those courses, we have pre-advanced courses that get students ready for the college equivalent level, which we would call the advanced courses. So a point was made very eloquently earlier about how you do have a pathway you have to go through in order to prepare for that level of rigor. I'm pleased to say that SCAD actually does give credit for our Cambridge exams in art, and so we have a lot of students that come out of these programs, and they are ready to go to SCAD, and when they arrive, they thrive because they are very well-prepared.

352. 1:23:57

     Um, I'm going to pause there if I may for just a moment and see what questions you may have for me.

353. 1:24:03

     You have one. Dr. Clark.

354. 1:24:05

     All right, thank you.

355. 1:24:06

     You're welcome.

356. 1:24:07

     So, um, the way I read this bill right now is that, um, currently Georgia Student Finance Commission is considering coursework for AP, dual credit, and IB, and we are adding Cambridge. And so you mentioned that, um, there are nine being offered around the country, and you mentioned drama is being, um, offered in Georgia. Outside of drama, what are the ones that are being offered at the schools in, like, Clayton and Troup County?

357. 1:24:40

     Right now, not any others, but we are in the process of adding additional courses to the directory for their, uh, review at the DOE, and then adoption if approved, and I haven't had any reason to think it would not be approved.

358. 1:24:52

     Okay. Thank you.

359. 1:24:53

     You're welcome.

360. 1:24:57

     If I may add something to your question.

361. 1:24:59

     Mm-hmm.

362. 1:24:59

     Cambridge has 70 courses at the pre-advanced level, and that typically means grade nine and 10, and then 50 courses at the advanced level. That includes all the different languages and things like that in that number of 50. So I just want to share with you, when we did come into Georgia, we did not put all of those courses in the directory. We were focusing more on what the individual schools were requesting right then and expanding that opportunity. Does that help you?

363. 1:25:24

     Um, so in the schools, like, are there... There are more than just the fine arts, is that what you're saying? Or-

364. 1:25:33

     Oh, yes, ma'am.

365. 1:25:33

     Okay.

366. 1:25:33

     Yes, ma'am. Would you like a list of what they just tested in?

367. 1:25:36

     Um, no.

368. 1:25:37

     Okay.

369. 1:25:37

     I- I'm just trying to, um, get some clarity-

370. 1:25:39

     Okay

371. 1:25:39

     ... because it sounds like this is something that has been brought to Georgia. We're starting this up, and so earlier it was said that this is already included in HOPE, and I was just-

372. 1:25:50

     It is

373. 1:25:50

     ... trying to get some, some clarity on that. Okay.

374. 1:25:52

     Yes, ma'am. It started five years ago, and we are included in the different measures of accountability. We are included in the HOPE Scholarship. Um, we're included in all of it.

375. 1:26:00

     Okay.

376. 1:26:00

     And we have been for a few years now.

377. 1:26:03

     And are the grades weighted like they are with AP-

378. 1:26:06

     Yes, ma'am

379. 1:26:06

     ... and all the... Okay. Thank you.

380. 1:26:07

     We're sort of the trilogy, if you will, AP, IB, and Cambridge.

381. 1:26:10

     Got it.

382. 1:26:11

     So, sorry.

383. 1:26:12

     Thank you.

384. 1:26:14

     Um, we have a question. Uh, Representative Jackson.

385. 1:26:20

     Yes. I'm just amazed because you're talking about so many courses here, there. How do you dec- how do you decide whether or not you're gonna continue with this one, drop that one out? 'Cause c- it seems like that could be very confusing, confusing, uh, to our young people, and how is that managed?

386. 1:26:39

     Thank you. That's a... Oh, go, please.

387. 1:26:40

     Go ahead.

388. 1:26:41

     Oh, thank you. That's a great question. We actually do a lot of professional development with all of our districts and schools that we work with, and that includes not only with the teachers on how best to, you know, teach the skills and things the students need to be s- successful, but also with the counselors, the guidance counselors in the schools. They come to training as well to learn all about our different courses, what the options are, where that might fit into different programs they're already offering, like if they have magnet schools and they have certain areas they'd be interested in offering.

389. 1:27:13

     So we, we have a very close relationship. We have individual people at Cambridge in the United States assigned to each school, not just the district, but each school, and they have quarterly meetings with them. So we are very, very hands-on on appropriate implementation that gives students an optim- optimal chance for success.

390. 1:27:33

     Mr. Chair, may I ask another question?

391. 1:27:35

     Yes, ma'am.

392. 1:27:36

     How do you reach the parents? Because with all of these changes, I know that sometimes that can be very complicating with them because they would have to go back to school as well to realize what is happening with the s- you know, with their students as well.

393. 1:27:52

     Yes, ma'am. Thank you for that question. We primarily work with the actual s- um, teachers and counselors at the schools, and then they have the relationship... Oops, sorry. They have the relationship with the parents, not us. We do not directly, um, work with the parents. We let the schools and the districts do that.

394. 1:28:16

     Okay.

395. 1:28:16

     I will say that all of our information is on our public website, every course, every course outline, what the exams look like. All of it is on our public website. Anybody can go look at it anytime for every subject.

396. 1:28:28

     Okay, we're gonna keep moving along. Did you have some further, uh, Representative Barrett?

397. 1:28:32

     Uh, yes, sir, Mr. Chairman. Your brochure, uh, your handout-

398. 1:28:36

     Yes, sir

399. 1:28:36

     ... says in over 700 schools across the US and in over 160 countries. How many schools in Georgia?

400. 1:28:42

     In Georgia, we just have the two right now, and actually it's at the high school and the elementary school level. So the high school, um, elite scholars, they have grades 6 through 12, and then we also have two elementary schools that feed into them. That's in, that's in, um, Clayton.

401. 1:28:59

     Did your s-

402. 1:29:00

     Oh, they'd love to have you.

403. 1:29:02

     Okay.

404. 1:29:02

     They would love to have you.

405. 1:29:03

     I don't mind.

406. 1:29:03

     Mm-hmm.

407. 1:29:04

     We're, we're, we're gonna move, move on. I, yeah, I have no further questions. Thank you, ma'am. Um...

408. 1:29:10

     Thank you.

409. 1:29:10

     A- Alan Fowler. I wanted to make you Alan Foster, sir. I'm so sorry.

410. 1:29:15

     Thank you.

411. 1:29:16

     I know an Alan Foster, so we were, we were going to, uh, promote you or demote you-

412. 1:29:20

     Look at that

413. 1:29:20

     ... de- depending on how, how much you appreciate your family name. Mr. Fowler, please, uh, go right ahead.

414. 1:29:25

     Yes, I am Alan Fowler, and I serve as the executive director of the Georgia Music Educators Association. And thank you for allowing me to, to speak about this bill. Uh, GMEA supports including AP, IB, and Cambridge fine arts courses within the HOPE GPA calculation. These calculation, or these classes follow rigorous academic standards, just like other weighted courses. I appreciate the questions that address that. The, the AP music exam is, is, is quite rigorous. Um, and as such, they merit equal consideration.

415. 1:29:56

     Simply put, i- including these courses promotes fairness, supports student choice, and acknowledges that the fine arts are a vital component of a well-rounded college-ready education. So we encourage thoughtful consideration of this issue to ensure equitable opportunities for all Georgia students.

416. 1:30:18

     Yeah, I have no questions, sir. Thank you very much.

417. 1:30:20

     Appreciate it, Bill.

418. 1:30:21

     Uh, Superintendent Woods.

419. 1:30:24

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and again, members of the committee. Again, just want to, uh, appreciate Senator Payne for bringing forth, uh, this bill. Uh, you know, the, the big thing for me is that it gives our kids choice. Uh, prior to this, uh, bill, uh, being initiated, uh, if a child, uh, did really want to pursue something in the fine arts, they were pushed into math, English, social studies. This was not an option for them. Uh, I would be remiss that i- if you look and if you were to travel over to Georgia Tech, that most of those individuals over there have a music background.

420. 1:30:55

     And I think that this, you know, gives them, you know, an option to pursue this, um, and, uh, really to have something, a pursuit of passion. Uh, all these courses, courses, as mentioned, are very rigorous. Uh, in fact, some of the fine arts, uh, courses, when you look at, especially the AP area, are some of the toughest to pass, and they have some of the highest rigor ra- rating there. So I, you know, would encourage you to, uh, continue to pass this along, uh, you know, for our sake of our kids, giving them as much choice as they possibly can. And if you have a op- opportunity today, across at the Twin Towers, uh, later this afternoon, we have the Capital Art Show.

421. 1:31:32

     So I would appreciate that. And of course, it was mentioned Elite Scholars. Uh, I just awarded that school with a bunch of recognitions in both literacy and math. They are one of the highest performing, uh, schools in the state of Georgia. So thank you very much. If there's no questions, I will yield the floor.

422. 1:31:49

     Tha- thank you, Representative. I will, uh, not, but, um, tell the young man's name since, um, I don't have his permission or his parents, but I will be seeing a representative from my district in Sweet Apple Elementary over at that capital art exhibit later on today. So thank you for reminding us all that. I'd encourage the members, if you get a chance, stop by there. It, it is a really neat and exciting, uh, afternoon.

423. 1:32:08

     Thank you.

424. 1:32:09

     Thank you, Superintendent. Um, we have no further questions. Um, Senator, uh, and, and, um, Matt, if you would like to, you know, close us out here, we, you, we are gonna hold over here just to get a couple questions answered from the committee, but we'll have you back right straight away, Senator. We're not gonna hold, hold you up. We just wanna answer a couple more questions. Normally, we hear everything twice. We just, uh, we're in a good mood, I reckon, earlier today. So, uh, we will, we'll invite you back to see us. Yes, sir.

425. 1:32:34

     Just one quick thing I want to point out that might, uh, make it look a little confusing. The, the Cambridge add there, they, they have been, uh, receiving credit in many of those other, uh, core content areas. Uh, we had to actually do a substitute bill because that was just inadvertently left out. So it does look like it, it jumps out for just adding them. That was not the, the intent. They've been in there for other core areas. Just the, the overall intent here, as, uh, superintendent and other speakers have said, is, um, to add fine arts for those courses of rigor so the kids who are taking any of those, uh, three, uh, particular providers, um, can stay in those pathways, and we don't lose them in, into some other pathway.

426. 1:33:14

     Thank you. Did you have anything, Senator?

427. 1:33:16

     If you're cured, Mr. Chairman, I'd just, uh, add that, uh, the question had come up about the fine arts and the definition. This bill defines fine arts to mean advanced placement, international baccalaureate, or Cambridge fine art courses in which Department of Education has designated as unique course number and name indicating that such course is classified as advanced placement, AP, international baccalaureate, or Cambridge. So, it, it, it's, you know, it's something they're trying to do. And I, the reason I had the urgency to jump for this bill was because I'd spent a lifetime as a probation officer working with the kids who were falling through everybody's cracks, quite honestly.

428. 1:34:02

     And they were just kids that people didn't understand. And so many times because they didn't fit a certain mold, they weren't ever destined for a certain path. And so those kids, so everything we can do to give a new avenue in education to these kids, we should be doing everything we can to make sure that we're serving their need, not ours, Your Honor. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

429. 1:34:24

     Thanks, Senator. And, and again, my, my personally and, and we'll, uh, obviously, always at the will of this committee hear about moving legislation, but my personally to hold it over is not to, to slow it down or to, to, uh, stop your legislation. I would ask this because while this is with us in higher ed because it affects Hope, it, it has a lot to do with, uh, K 12 e- ed and our colleague, uh, Chairman Erwin. And, and so the, the thing I want to ask and what I want to work on is that definition of fine arts is, can, can we make sure we're, if somebody else offers one of these later, that we don't have to come back and do that again or somebody, um, you know, where, where...

430. 1:35:02

     Can we be more inclusive as long as they pass the rigor that the Board of Education does, um, and, and make sure we... I don't know if this reads something like including, but not limited to subject to the approval of the Board of Education. Something along those lines just to make sure that the gentleman's getting what he's after. I think what the, our teacher from Central Forsyth offered us that we, we want to give the, the folks the opportunity to get credit for what they're doing. So with that, I thank you, Senator. We'll, we'll get you back on s- straight away. Uh, is there any, uh, further business before the committee this afternoon?

431. 1:35:33

     Anything further? We, um, you may see a meeting notice because I wasn't sure how we were going to be moving on some of these bills. Uh, you may see something, uh, for 8:00 in the morning. Right now, we will not, I will not wake you up at 8:00 in the morning. We got pieces of, uh, our work pointed out there, and, uh, so look for a meeting early next week. Uh, we will probably meet before next Wednesday because the days are getting short. But with that, if there's no further business before the committee, we'll stand adjourned without objection. I'm seeing no objections. We're adjourned.