Comité Education de la Cámara de Representantes, 23 de marzo de 2026

Transcripción

1,118 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:17:21

   All right. I think we have a core members. Let me call this Education Committee meeting for the House to order. See if we can talk about some Senate bills here, if we could. Um, let me first welcome all visitors here, and as, uh, our practice is, we like to look, 'cause we know we've got great educators out in front of us. If you're a teacher or educator, raise your hand, or have been. How does that sound, too?

2. 0:17:51

   Let's recognize the educators in the room. Thank you, educators.

3. 0:17:58

   We call you daily heroes from this podium up here. Uh, all our teachers and educators are, so thank you for what you do. Members, uh, I know it's been a furious morning and early afternoon. Let's see if we can, uh, continue our success at doing some good things for our young people here in this state. Let me take the liberty here, uh, before I ask somebody to say a prayer for you, to please include, uh, my admin, Shirley Spencer, uh, in your prayers, as she is in the hospital right now as we speak today.

4. 0:18:39

   So, uh, w- would want the Lord touching her very closely today and would like you to say prayers for her as we think about her and her efforts, um, to getting better and feeling better, please. Uh, all the way down at the end, Floor Leader Wade, do you mind opening us up in prayer? Are you 29?

5. 0:19:03

   I am. Not any longer, but technically the number in front of me is 29. Heavenly Father, thank you for this day. Lord, just watch over us, and especially our friend that Chairman Erwin brought up. We know that you can help her and heal her and just provide comfort and, and healing. Bless the children in this state. Bless us to have good, good work today on their behalf, and for those educators that are charged that high calling of serving the next generation. In all these things we ask in Jesus' name. Amen.

6. 0:19:33

   Amen. Thank you, and well, I'll continue myself throwing prayers up for Ms. Shirley. Um, we are honored, members, to have the Chairman of Education sitting right in the middle of the room. We're gonna put him, uh, uh, on stage here for us. And matter of fact, we're gonna have him present two bills in a row for us. So, Chairman Hickman, uh, thank you for up here, and what you do at this Capitol, and for your attention to literacy for multiple sessions now, and, uh, your drive to improving the educational abilities of teachers and learning of children, so thank you for that.

7. 0:20:17

   What I would ask you, as I do everybody, would you read your LC number, and then I'll turn the, uh, microphone over to you.

8. 0:20:25

   Yes, sir.

9. 0:20:25

   Let's start with SB 472. Is that okay with you?

10. 0:20:29

    Yes, sir. That's, that's the bill. Uh, Senate Bill 472, uh, LC 49-2813S, as in Sam.

11. 0:20:39

    We've got it correct. Uh, um, my admins do a good job with that, so go right ahead then. Microphone's yours.

12. 0:20:47

    Mr. Chairman, I'd, I'd like to first of all, um, mention, uh, since you mentioned about the lady that helps you, um, many of y'all probably know that, uh, uh, a great advocate of education in the Senate, Ms. Freddy, Senator Freddy Powell Sims resigned this morning. Her husband is in hospice, and so she felt like that was the right thing to do. So she has been a great inspiration to the Senate, and especially with her background in education. So if y'all, same situation with her, keep her in your prayers please.

13. 0:21:15

    Great. Thank you, Chairman. We will.

14. 0:21:17

    Yes, sir. Um, yes, yes, we got a, we got a, uh, the 2813S has a, had a small, um, change to it. I'll mention that so we'll know that, then, then I'll get into the bill itself, uh, 472. On line 55 of, um, of, of, of the substitute, the st- it says, "The state auditor shall notify the State Board of Education in writing within three business days of making such designation." That in the original bill was the s- the, uh, school superintendent shall notify the State Board of Education.

15. 0:21:50

    And through working with the state, um, uh, the, uh, um, School Superintendents Association, we changed that to the state auditor. So that's the only, in, in the, uh, substitute bill, that is the only change in that bill. Okay, sir. So we were very happy to present in the, um, Senate earlier today of, uh, Floor Leader, uh, Wade's, uh, bill on, that's, uh, a lot of a mirror of this, and, uh, it actually passed 48 to two? 48 to two. And very good. I appreciate his, his notes and all on that.

16. 0:22:23

    So let's, let's, let's get into it. This bill, Senate Bill 472 protects students. And against w- again, we hate to say, but we, I think we all know the school system that created this bill, and we hopefully this situation will never happen again because we will have greater monitoring over school systems going forward. So Senate Bill 472 protects students and families by holding local school districts accountable for financial mismanagement. This legislation strengthens the Georgia Department of Audits and Accounts, and, and Accounts, and it gives them tools to support local school systems by identifying issues early and creating a statewide fiscal monitoring intervention system by July of this year.

17. 0:23:04

    Several, only a couple months from now. Senate Bill 472 authorizes the governor to suspend local school board members upon recommendation of the State Board of Education if the local Board of Education, a member thereof, a local school system, or a local school superintendent, superintendent is the subject of a finding by the state auditor. ... of fiscal mismanagement and misconduct following an investigation. So let's kind of get, get into a little bit of an overview. Um, as I stated, this, this clarifies that, uh, this replaces, th- this applies to local school board members who were serving at the time of the incident.

18. 0:23:41

    It does not, does not apply to school board members that are serving after the incident happens, who were serving at the time the school system was the subject of defining or loss of accreditation. Senate Bill 472 has two triggers that are tied to state audit results. The first trigger is if the state auditor designates a district as needing the highest level of monitoring intervention, suspension proceedings may begin. And the second trigger is if the state auditor finds financial wrongdoing after an investigation, suspension, suspension proceedings may begin.

19. 0:24:19

    When either of the triggers above occur, the local school center superintendent must notify the State Education Department. And now, as I stated a few minutes ago, that has now changed to the state auditor must notify the state, uh, um, department, state, state education department. The state board must then hold a hearing within 10 to 90 days and make recommendations to the governor, who ultimately decides whether to suspend the board members with pay. The key shift on this is that previously audit findings primarily triggered corrective actions, now they can trigger removal of board members.

20. 0:24:58

    But s- but suspended members must show their return would likely help improve accreditation. So they, they can apply to come back if they can show that it would appro- improve their accreditation.

21. 0:25:13

    Also in this bill, when a local school district is designated as a high-risk school system by the Department of Audits, the contract for the superintendent may not exceed 12 months. Starting July 1, '26, any new contracts for su- for school superintendents must include this provision, that if the local school superintendent is subject of a state auditor finding of financial mismanagement or misconduct following an investigation, or has knowingly failed or refused to comply with a material requirement of the intervention plan, that shall be, sha- shall be cause for termination of the employment contract.

22. 0:25:52

    You know, we talk about advanced distributions and all about receiving, um, property taxes ahead of time and that type. And we know in some cases that's very necessary because of, because of the digest not getting filed on time and that type of thing. So we got, we got some provisions in here on th- on that.

23. 0:26:11

    So, a school system can request early distribution of state funds to manage cash flow before local tax collections arrive. This legislation places a cap on these advances. Payments hit 50% of the prior year's state funding for the school system. School districts can exceed this cap, but only under the following circumstances. The state auditor must formally say... As you see in this bill, there's a lot of responsibility put on the state auditor, and that's what is, I think, in, even in the, um, House bill, they take a lot of responsibility put on the state auditor.

24. 0:26:46

    State auditor must formally say that the extra advance is necessary, and it will improve conditions. The state auditor must create a formal monitoring and intervention plan. The local board must pass a resolution committing to strict compliance with the plan. Importantly, the state auditor maintains final authority over the contents of the plan, any modifications, and when the plan is considered complete.

25. 0:27:16

    Now, under current law, if a, if an independent school district that operates its own locally funded public school system wishes to dissolve that system and join the county school system, at least 25% of the qualified voters in the area must submit a petition in the government authority. The substitute, or in this bill now, would change the petition requirement from 25% to 10%. The rest of the process, that the issue must then be placed on the ballot in accordance with state election law, and that a majority of voters required for approval would remain unchanged.

26. 0:27:58

    Let me read that again. The, the rest of the process when dr- uh, down to 10%, that issue must then be placed on the ballot, where all voters in that particular city district can vote on in accordance with state election law, and the majority vote is required for approval. That remains unchanged.

27. 0:28:21

    The change, the change changes from the citizens of municipality to the voters of the territory. It's simply a cleanup language. The qualified voters are still those voters who would be in the specific independent city school district.

28. 0:28:40

    Policy reasons for why this is beneficial, it preserves a barrier to entry without making it u- unusually high. 10% is still a sizable percentage required for a referendum vote. Additionally, this does not change the fact that the measure would still have, had to be placed on the ballot and approved by the electorate. It also lowers the barrier to voter participation. Reducing the requirement to 10% makes it more realistic for citizens to place an issue on the ballot, ensuring that communities have a meaningful opportunity to consider consolidation through a democratic vote.

29. 0:29:19

    And it also encourages civic engagement. A lower threshold empowers residents to initiate dis- discussion and debate about the future of their local school system without requiring unusually high upfront, um, showing.

30. 0:29:38

    So, so we, we, we ... This bill creates a statewide fiscal monitoring intervention system. Department of Audits, as I stated earlier, and Accounts must implement this, this by July 1 of '26. And we've talked to Greg Griffin on this, and it's gonna require probably two or three years for him being able to interview and hire additional ... I think, Mr. Chairman, he told us, like, 30 to 40 additional auditors in order to implement it, so it's gonna take some time. Um, and we've also s- put some money in the budget to help him do that. In general, the Audit Department must create a system to monitor fiscal health of every school system and state charter school, applying escalating interventions, report the fiscal condition regularly.

31. 0:30:20

    Department must also produce regular fiscal condition reports. Districts must maintain audit-ready financial records.

32. 0:30:29

    The auditor may authorize CPA firms to perform required audits, but only with state-approved standards. Right now, the, the outside firms can perform audits, but if a, but if a school system goes to the point of high risk, they cannot, that audit cannot be done by an outside firm. It has to be done by the State Department of Audits. And even if a, even if an outside firm does the audit, Mr. Chairman, they have to comply with the standards and all that, that Mr. Greg Griffin and State Department of Audit apply.

33. 0:31:02

    All the, all the, um, work papers, audit programs, and that kind of stuff has to be, has to be w- uh, approved by him. The state auditor may initiate full investigation when warning signs appear, such as financial irregularities, governance concerns, and evidence of misconduct. This legislation authorizes state to make a full investigation of any local school system or s- or state charter school. Mr. Chairman, that, that's, I mean, it's a pretty heavy bill, but Chair, this is something that, that you and I and several others have been living with since, um, probably August of last year.

34. 0:31:38

    And we've labored over this, and we worried about it, and, and we prayed about it, and then so we just need to make sure that this type of situation does not happen again. And 'cause we've been concerned about the students in this particular district, we're concerned about the teachers in this district, we've been, we've been concerned about renewal of, of, um, of, uh, contracts with teachers, so forth and so on. So, uh, this is a very important legislation, and, uh, I appreciate y'all hearing us today.

35. 0:32:04

    Great. Thank you, Chairman. And, uh, let me, let me state this. Your background as, uh, as a CPA gave you another good insight into this bill. And I men- I heard some names mentioned. Do you mind, uh, telling us, not individuals' names, but departments you have worked with-

36. 0:32:26

    Oh, we-

37. 0:32:27

    ... to develop this bill?

38. 0:32:28

    Well, we've obv- we, we definitely have worked with the State Department of Audits, uh, Mr. Greg Griffin. We've worked extensively with the House. We worked with, uh, Department of Education. Um, you and I were on Zoom, uh, every Friday from, like, August through December with Department of Education giving us updates on, on this particular system. Um, we worked extensively with the, uh, with the Senate on, on this also.

39. 0:32:54

    Great. Well, thank you, and thank you for this work and, uh, months of work trying to put this together. Now, we are in the third quarter of the day.

40. 0:33:03

    Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

41. 0:33:04

    But you, you've lit up the screen here.

42. 0:33:06

    Oh, Lord, I've done too much.

43. 0:33:06

    So, uh, we- we're, we're gonna try to go quick through some questions, and I'm gonna go in order here. Number two.

44. 0:33:14

    Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

45. 0:33:15

    I got you on.

46. 0:33:18

    Still breaking.

47. 0:33:19

    Hold on. How's that?

48. 0:33:21

    Thank you, Chairman.

49. 0:33:22

    Yeah.

50. 0:33:22

    Chairman Hickman, uh-

51. 0:33:23

    That's right

52. 0:33:23

    ... thank you for the bill, and appreciate you-

53. 0:33:26

    Thank you

54. 0:33:26

    ... uh, lifting up, uh, just a, a stronger focus on accountability, but also supporting our local school districts. Um, lines 74, 174 through 180, um, I just wanna make sure I'm understanding this correctly. Anytime a local school system is designated as high risk, um, I do understand that any current contract would be, uh, restricted in terms of the length of time that they could extend it to, to a max of 12 months.

55. 0:34:00

    What if a school district is designated as high risk, they terminate the, um, superintendent? Does it make it harder to attract, like, a new, a newer candidate if they're bound to that shorter contract? I just, I just wanna be sure that we're not limiting our options or pushing away good people who may not run toward a 12-month contract versus the standard two, three-year contract.

56. 0:34:33

    Thank you, sir. That's a great question. Um, the, the provisions that will apply to board members that come in after this particular situation happened, when we said to the board members i- if, it only applied to board members when the, when the, um, malfunction happened. It would also be the same situation with superintendent. So if a superintendent was let go for, because of this situation, the new superintendent could have the three-year contract. He would not be subject to a one-year contract.

57. 0:35:01

    Thank you, sir.

58. 0:35:01

    Yes, sir.

59. 0:35:02

    Thank you.

60. 0:35:02

    Thank you, sir. Great question. Thank you.

61. 0:35:05

    Vice. Let me get me back on. Vice Chair, number 21.

62. 0:35:11

    Thank you, Chairman. I appreciate this bill. I appreciate-

63. 0:35:13

    Thank you

64. 0:35:14

    ... uh, the action that you're taking, make sure that we, uh, move forward and, you know, prevent, um, further problems down the road. Um, just for clarity for people at home that might be watching, can you, um, review, like, the severity of an audit finding that would ... We spoke of the, you, you spoke of the trigger, which is, uh, financial wrongdoing. What would be the severity of the wrongdoing that would trigger a course of action and a, and a plan That I assume since some would be using an independent audit and then some would use the Department of Audits, what is the severity ver- versus an audit finding that's a technical error and wrongdoing?

65. 0:35:55

    Is that defined in here?

66. 0:35:57

    Well, I think it, it, it is, it is not defined except that the judgment is based on the state, the, in this case, Greg Griffin, the State Department audit person. And I think that we have in, um, um, probably the wage bill that we passed out of Senate a few minutes ago, there were several things that triggered, is if, if, if they were not making the s- their, um, state health plan benefits payments on time, if they were not making the TRS payments on, uh, teacher retirement system on time, if they were not paying Department of Labor, uh, payments on time.

67. 0:36:29

    There was four of them, and I, I know that's three of them, but they got to do an annual survey, not in this bill, but in the bill is they got to do an annual certification of that. So, so the triggers that you're referring to would be set up by... And, and the tier situation that's by this bill is based upon the recommendation of the state auditor.

68. 0:36:49

    Okay. I appreciate that, 'cause I do think having that clarity in there is very important.

69. 0:36:53

    Mm-hmm.

70. 0:36:53

    I know we have some discretion with it, sounds like Department of Education on the moving forward and the action. But yeah, having the clarity of what exactly constitutes, you know, more of a disciplinary action and not, um, I appreciate you elaborating on that.

71. 0:37:07

    Yeah. Yeah, it, it, again, it would not be determined by me or, or the Senate or the House. It'd be determined by, by the state Department of Audits.

72. 0:37:17

    Okay. Next one, number 14. Representative Glaize.

73. 0:37:22

    Thank you so much, Chairman, for bringing this bill.

74. 0:37:24

    Yes.

75. 0:37:24

    And we know how important it is to-

76. 0:37:26

    Yeah

77. 0:37:26

    ... safeguard our school systems. But again, I was the one who asked you guys to look strongly at the percentages before we can get some information to, the parents can actually, uh, put together a petition to actually move an independent system into the county. And I just want to read this, 'cause I know you are an accountant, but 9% of our cities host 45% of the total state population.

78. 0:37:58

    Right.

79. 0:37:59

    And three quarters of Georgia cities have a population of 5,000 or less, and 4% of our cities in the state have more than 50,000. That's a huge d- huge difference in population. That's coming straight from GMA. And so I was, again, would like us to consider somewhere a friendly amendment w- uh, that would give us tiered percentages based on the size of cities.

80. 0:38:32

    As you have heard, the majority of our cities, three quarters of them have 5,000 or less people. So that means that they can actually, um, and the voters would be less than that. So maybe they could have 300, um, people on a, one petition and move a town system vote to be moved from independence to, uh, part of the county. And then you've got most of our population in 9% of our cities.

81. 0:39:05

    That's way, you know, a large percentage. And I just thought, just for parity sake, if there's an opportunity to do this in a way that's really more county effective, where we have small cities with 25%, and then those larger cities, 50,000 and above, 10%. It just gives us some kind of parity on the num- and the percentage based on the numbers of folks in those cities. And so I, I had asked if we would consider that, but I don't see that we did.

82. 0:39:39

    Is there a reason why?

83. 0:39:41

    Yes, ma'am. I, I appreciate, I appreciate your thoughts.

84. 0:39:44

    Yes. I would say that, uh, excuse me, I don't agree with the percentage situation, but I do know that it's gonna be based, you know, no matter if we cho- if we had 25% or 30% or 5%, it's still gonna be based upon how many people go to the ballot box and vote on it. So I, I'm not, I'm not as concerned about percentage, but because I believe that the, the people would, when they go to the ballot box to vote, they'll determine whether it's the right thing to do or not.

85. 0:40:14

    Okay.

86. 0:40:14

    At the proper time, I still would like to make a friendly amendment.

87. 0:40:19

    Let, let me do this, okay? Let, we've got quite a few more questions to go through on this one. Um, uh, members, I'll tell you, I saw an interesting button for the first time, even though I've been doing this for years. It's called Clear Queue.

88. 0:40:35

    Push it.

89. 0:40:35

    I have never paid attention to that button, so I might be using that Clear Queue.

90. 0:40:42

    Oh, all right.

91. 0:40:43

    I like it. Number 12, I believe, all the way in the corner.

92. 0:40:46

    Thanks, Mr. Chair. Thanks, Chairman-

93. 0:40:48

    Yes

94. 0:40:48

    ... for this bill. Just a real quick question to follow up with what the representative was talking about earlier, I think. Representative Wade helped me out. So if I'm a superintendent that messes up, uh, become on that list, I'm at the end, toward the end of my contract, the most I can get on the contract is one year. Now, if they wind up firing me and they said, "Hey, Representative, uh, Ballard, uh, would, I mean, would be a great superintendent," and they hire her for three years, that's, that's okay because she's coming in from the outside.

95. 0:41:18

    That is, that is correct, sir.

96. 0:41:19

    Thank you very much.

97. 0:41:20

    Thank you, sir.

98. 0:41:20

    And at the appropriate time.

99. 0:41:22

    It's basically getting the person out of the system that was a part of the problem.

100. 0:41:26

     Let's go to number 18.

101. 0:41:31

     Thank you, Chairman. And, um, thank you for, for, uh, this legislation and understanding what you're, um, attempting to do, and I know it's really important. But my concern is, um, I know we had at one, at least one school district, and I don't know if you addressed this already, that was in trouble last year, and I'm assuming there must be quite a few or we wouldn't be, um, looking at this legislation. But what was already in place, um, that- would have allowed, or what wasn't in place, that would have allowed a school district to get in a financial situation that this now is, um, going to fix?

102. 0:42:11

     I think part of this, ma'am, is that, that, um, I think the COVID money caused a lot of this situation to happen in a lot of schools. And I think we got several other school systems that if, um, uh, Greg Griffin was here, I think he would tell us that, that they may be on the verge of this. They got used to spending the COVID money and did not make the tremendous cutbacks when that happened. This also happened as a result of the one that we know about that, that caused all, caused these two bills, that they did not have a audit for '6/30/23, '24, or '25.

103. 0:42:44

     Um, and the J- '6/30/23 audit was just, um, completed or accepted within the last two weeks. Um, so those- We feel like those, if those audits had've been done on a timely basis, then they would've, they, they would've, um, uh, cooperated with them. That some of the... You know, one, one of the big things that created this bill was when we found out that they had missed 14 payments of state health plan benefit payments, which is a little over $6.5 million, Mr. Chairman, something like that. $6.5 million, that they had received the money from the state for those payments, but had not sent it back to the state health plan.

104. 0:43:20

     So there was a little bit of a, there was a little bit of issue with the state health plan benefit not, not raising their hand and say, "Hey, what's going on here?" You know? So, so a lot of this was created because, because of the audit not being done timely, and now we've got things in place here that, that's gonna stop that. Um, and then I, I think the fact that, um, that the state health plan bene- or other payments were not made. Typically, typically when we see people that... When we, in our, in our world, when we see people not make payments like that or IRS payments, that's normally when they're in financial trouble.

105. 0:43:56

     And so they didn't miss one, two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight. They missed 14 payments.

106. 0:44:02

     Gotcha. So-

107. 0:44:03

     14 payments

108. 0:44:03

     ... just one, and just to clarify one thing for me. So annual audits are due every year.

109. 0:44:09

     Yes, ma'am.

110. 0:44:11

     And so, and I guess there was no one at the Department of Education that-

111. 0:44:14

     Yes, ma'am

112. 0:44:15

     ... were monitoring or tracking, and then we are gonna have that in place now if this bill passes.

113. 0:44:19

     The, the state board, my, as my understanding, the State Board of Education has a list of schools that are, are at different levels of risk. But that, that, that, that report is based upon the annual audit.

114. 0:44:35

     Mm-hmm.

115. 0:44:35

     The fact that this annual audit was not completed over here, it didn't make it over here to state board to put them on the, on, on the... So it all started by the, by the, I won't say it all started that, but a big part of it started by the fact of not having the annual audit. And it, and it still, like I said... And, and I know that when we, when Mr. Chairman and I was on, on, on the, um, on Zoom for so many weeks, there was a lot of, uh, other internal, internal situations like that, too, that... But it basically started with the audit not being completed.

116. 0:45:06

     Thank you.

117. 0:45:06

     Yes, ma'am. Thank you.

118. 0:45:08

     All right. I believe number four, you were flashing.

119. 0:45:13

     Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Chairman, for the bill.

120. 0:45:15

     Yeah. Thank you, sir.

121. 0:45:16

     Accountability is vitally important. You may have just answered my question. I wanted to know, uh, were there some sp- specific examples of financial mismanagement by board members that, that... You, you alluded to s- some examples, and I, I'm not aware of those. Uh-

122. 0:45:32

     No, sir

123. 0:45:33

     ... I, I know we can't call names or anything like that, but, uh, there are-

124. 0:45:35

     No, sir. I'm not aware of any specific examples. I, I... Again, thi- this bill came about mainly, mainly when we found out about the, um, state health plan benefit payments not being made, and then that's, that's what... And, and then, then we said, "Well, if those are not made, why weren't they made? And then how didn't somebody know they were made?" And that's what started tracking it back. And then we found out the audit wa- audit was not prepared. And in this case, the audit was, um, not, not, not, not poking fingers at a particular firm or anything, because I got a lot of respect for the firm that, that does the annual.

125. 0:46:07

     But, uh, but by, by the annual audit not being prepared by the, by the accounting firm, the information was not ready according to them. This, this kind of kept everything off the table.

126. 0:46:19

     Okay. M- Mr. Chairman, can I follow up?

127. 0:46:21

     Yes.

128. 0:46:22

     W- w- would these standards and provisions apply to public charter schools or private schools that receive the Promise Scholarship?

129. 0:46:29

     They would, they, they, they were, they would apply to, to public schools and charter schools, but not private schools.

130. 0:46:41

     Thank you, sir.

131. 0:46:42

     All right. Let's go to number three.

132. 0:46:46

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I, you know, the auditor was mentioned, the state auditor, but it... Systems are already required to get an audit. So, like, in '22, up through '22 it looks like everybody was doing their audit.

133. 0:47:03

     Yeah, that's right. That, that's right.

134. 0:47:04

     And then in '23 you had three, now you got... '24 you got six. So we know they're not doing them, and we also know that there's a shortage of CPAs around the state. And so my concern is that as we do this-

135. 0:47:17

     Yeah

136. 0:47:17

     ... that all we're doing is creating more work that we may not be able to do. Because again, we have the requirements. We know who's not doing them. Just by saying you double have to not do, you now double have to do them, I guess that's my only concern, is we're creating more government, we're creating more agency bureaucracy, we're creating more paperwork, we're creating more everything, and I don't know what it's gonna solve except firing a bunch of people that aren't doing their job potentially, that we say. Um, it... That's my only concern. I, I don't...

137. 0:47:47

     That's not a question. Maybe it is a question. Is that not true? Um, but yeah, I guess, um, I, I, it's already the law right now and I don't know what we're gonna do right now besides tell them they have to do what they're already supposed to do. Like, that's my only, that's my big concern, I guess. That's why I'm just raising the objection, so when you see no, that's why.

138. 0:48:04

     Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Thank you, sir. Well, you know, from your background and my gra- background, um, I- I think we both see that it starts, it probably starts with au- with audit. But, you know, we also understand that, you know, in order to, to, in order to, in order for the outside firm to, to perform the audit, the records have to be ready to be, to be audited. And so we also got in this from, just from our background that, that, that, that if, if they had to hire somebody, another outside firm come in and get the records ready, that firm cannot do the audit.

139. 0:48:36

     So there is a separation there. I, I, I, I just thought about that.

140. 0:48:40

     Okay.

141. 0:48:40

     Yeah, thank you.

142. 0:48:41

     Number 12.

143. 0:48:42

     Thank you for the comment.

144. 0:48:43

     Motion to approve, Mr. Chairman.

145. 0:48:46

     Okay. Seeing no others, we got a motion to approve. Do I have a second?

146. 0:48:51

     Second.

147. 0:48:52

     We have a second. We got discussion number 18.

148. 0:48:57

     No. Okay. Thank you, Chair. But I'm, I'm perusing through this 'cause I'm trying to make sure that there is something in place that is going to trigger an action, and it may be in here, and I, I just haven't been able to find it, that there is something that's gonna trigger action if a school district misses an audit. I ju- I didn't know if that was in here. Is that-

149. 0:49:20

     The, the, the trigger is now the, um, the responsibility is on the state auditor. And then, and, and again, if it do- they, two things would, would trigger that. The state auditor would trigger, and then also the annual certification by the superintendent, by the, by, by the chairman of the board, and the chief financial officer if there's any payments being missed.

150. 0:49:42

     Okay, and they should do that every year.

151. 0:49:44

     Yes, ma'am.

152. 0:49:45

     So what-

153. 0:49:45

     Yes

154. 0:49:46

     ... is the consequence if the board doesn't, uh, validate that these audits are not done?

155. 0:49:54

     Then, then, then the governor can step in, a- and under, under, under this bill, uh, the governor can then step in and remove the board members.

156. 0:50:03

     The state school board members?

157. 0:50:05

     Uh, the, the local board members.

158. 0:50:08

     Okay, 'cause what I'm trying... So I get that part, but if the, if the governing authority is not managing-

159. 0:50:16

     Mm-hmm

160. 0:50:16

     ... the responses, and these school districts are missing it, and it's the responsibility of the state auditor, what is the consequence for the state auditor if they are not communicating that these districts did not fulfill their audit?

161. 0:50:30

     Oh, okay. Okay.

162. 0:50:31

     Okay.

163. 0:50:32

     I don't think that's addressed in the bill.

164. 0:50:33

     Okay.

165. 0:50:33

     I think it, it, it all goes back to the, puts the res- You know, at some point in time, we gotta be able to point a finger at somebody, and that, that's what we found in, in this particular... I almost said the word. That's what we found, found in this su- particular situation. Nobody was e- willing to accept responsibility. So but so now we said, "Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna point a finger and put the responsibility on the state auditor." And that's why he, that person, he or she, has got a huge responsibility in reference to these school systems going forward.

166. 0:51:04

     Thanks. Okay.

167. 0:51:04

     Thank you, ma'am.

168. 0:51:07

     We have a motion and a second.

169. 0:51:11

     I'm gonna withdraw that motion. Um, and I do wanna make the statement of, uh, 3/4 of our cities in Georgia, population 5,000 or less, I hope that this will just go forth and do what it needs to do without having those tiers, but that is a concern.

170. 0:51:29

     Okay. Can be addressed by paying attention in future legislation.

171. 0:51:33

     Yes, ma'am. Yeah. Yes, sir. Excuse me.

172. 0:51:36

     Okay.

173. 0:51:36

     Yes, sir.

174. 0:51:37

     Seeing no more, uh, questions, let's, uh, see if we can vote on this, members. Uh, we have a motion and a second, and this is, uh, SB472. And 472 is LC492813S before us. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, like sign. Nay. The ayes have it on the yes side. How does that sound?

175. 0:52:09

     Um, the, uh, thank you.

176. 0:52:11

     Thank you, sir.

177. 0:52:12

     Um, Senator-

178. 0:52:13

     Yeah

179. 0:52:13

     ... thank you for this work. I know it's been a lot of months, and let's get this on to Rules, if you would. And I know you have another bill, but your trump card was played right behind you.

180. 0:52:24

     I saw it coming behind me over there.

181. 0:52:24

     And, uh, so if you don't mind-

182. 0:52:27

     No, for the way it was

183. 0:52:27

     ... let's let your chairman of Rules step on up, present his bill, and then we'll call you back up-

184. 0:52:33

     I'll be happy to

185. 0:52:33

     ... if you want.

186. 0:52:33

     And I'd like to say that, uh, Floor Leader Wade's gonna carry this bill for me.

187. 0:52:36

     Wade.

188. 0:52:37

     Yeah.

189. 0:52:37

     Thank you.

190. 0:52:37

     Thank you, sir.

191. 0:52:48

     See here, the power.

192. 0:52:49

     I, I... Yeah, here we go.

193. 0:52:52

     Chairman, thank you for being here with us. I know, I think you were just hosting a meeting, were you not?

194. 0:52:56

     I was. I was.

195. 0:52:58

     Good, good job.

196. 0:52:58

     And I came in here at 1:00. We missed you.

197. 0:53:02

     We were, uh, we, we, we were hosting another meeting-

198. 0:53:05

     You were

199. 0:53:05

     ... in another place ourselves.

200. 0:53:06

     A big meeting, big meeting.

201. 0:53:07

     But-

202. 0:53:07

     Very important meeting.

203. 0:53:08

     Yes. Uh, but, uh, we have you, uh, first on our agenda here at SB589. Chairman, if you'd read our, our URL C number, and I know it's a substitute, and, uh, we'll turn the microphone over to you.

204. 0:53:24

     S- so I, I just grabbed this off the table. I think it's LC395111S, but there may be a new substitute.

205. 0:53:39

     Uh, n- wait a minute.

206. 0:53:39

     Is that what we're working off of?

207. 0:53:41

     Let, let's check our packet here. We currently...

208. 0:53:49

     Huh, I used to have it. Now...

209. 0:53:52

     It's the one I have.

210. 0:53:57

     Do y'all have copies?

211. 0:54:01

     Mr. Clerk.

212. 0:54:03

     Is that it or one page?

213. 0:54:05

     One page.

214. 0:54:09

     Read that LC one more time for us. Make sure we all have it, since I did not.

215. 0:54:14

     I've got LC3951-11S.

216. 0:54:18

     Perfect.

217. 0:54:19

     As in Sierra.

218. 0:54:19

     That's what we do have.

219. 0:54:20

     Okay.

220. 0:54:20

     That's it. Mike, the floor is yours.

221. 0:54:22

     So this one's simple. I had a mother come to me with this issue, uh, who actually came with one of my school board members. Um, but under current law, if your child turns four before the, uh, date of September 1st, then your child is eligible for pre-K. If your child turns five before September 1st, your child must go to kindergarten, unless your local school board would allow them to go to pre-K if they did not attend a, um, a lottery sponsored pre-K before that.

222. 0:54:57

     So what this bill simply does is it actually, um... So the local school board, they have the option to either let that child go to pre-K or, or continue, um, go ahead and go to kindergarten. Some schools do it, some school districts do it, some do not. Um, so anyway, when I've, I had this school board member and parent come to me with the issue, and then actually saw it happen to a couple other, um, constituents online who were trying to give fair warning to, to other parents out there, um, I reached out to my school superintendent and asked him, you know, what was going on.

223. 0:55:36

     And anyway, uh, what we decided was to, uh, take the ability of the schools away and put the, put that back into the power of the parents, letting them decide if their child did not, uh, get into pre-K, that, then they could try to go to pre-K. That's simply what the bill does. And it's, it doesn't increase the number of lottery spots. We're only really talking about a, a small handful of kids per district.

224. 0:56:08

     You know, in my, uh, I've, my county, we have 150,000 in my county, and, 150,000 population. My school superintendent thinks on a high year this might be an extra five year, uh, five kids that would be eligible for, um, for the pre-K. So it's not gonna be a huge burden. Again, we're not increasing the slots. Would it make it a little bit more competitive? Yes. Um, but at the same time, if a parent decides that child is just not quite ready for kindergarten, they can make that decision on their own.

225. 0:56:43

     Great. Thank you, Chairman. I'm gonna work around the, uh, lights blinking here, and if, get you to answer a few questions. Number 22.

226. 0:56:52

     All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, uh, Chairman Bass, for bringing this. Uh, less of a question, more for the committee. Uh, you'll notice this is a sub. Um, I'll tell you guys, you've seen the entire language of this bill within the literacy bill. So this bill mirrors almost exactly lines 144 through 156 of House Bill 1193, the literacy bill. Um, the chairman was kind enough to allow me to add lines 22 through 26, which is a great segue onto his bill, because as he had constituents come to him, uh, especially for those of us in Gwinnett, we've had thousands of parents come to us with concerns around, uh, the age at which they enroll in either kindergarten or first grade.

227. 0:57:39

     Uh, lines 20 through to 26, again, already voted out in the literacy bill. We are putting it in, in this, uh, language as well. Uh, allowing, again, empowering parents to decide age of enrollment when they first enroll, they get that one-time choice, and then they're on the track for the rest of, the rest of that time.

228. 0:57:57

     Great. Thank you. Uh, number two.

229. 0:58:03

     Thank you, Chair- Chairman. Thank you for the bill. My wife and I are literally having this discussion on our four-year-old, uh, summer birthday, and so appreciate the option, uh, appreciate the choice, and at the appropriate time, Chairman.

230. 0:58:18

     Thank you.

231. 0:58:18

     Thank you for that.

232. 0:58:19

     Number 18.

233. 0:58:23

     Thank you, Chairman. And, um, and Chairman. Okay.

234. 0:58:28

     Thank you.

235. 0:58:29

     Um, my... I had a concern with the bill when it was in the other bill, 'cause for me, I just couldn't fathom why a parent would not allow their child to go to school. But, uh, the bigger concern is, is you're saying in your district where you're from, that there may be five students, and we just heard, uh, my colleague over here says thousands in Gwinnett. Now, I don't know how valid that is. Could be a little exaggerated. But if we are, if we are going to allow this language into law, we are gonna have an increase in the number of s- children who could potentially be in pre-K.

236. 0:59:07

     Is there an additional funding, an additional slots? How are we gonna address it from a workforce development standpoint?

237. 0:59:13

     Right.

238. 0:59:13

     And then the four-year-olds who really need to be in pre-K, is there gonna be a chance that maybe there isn't a slot for them because the five-year-olds are taking it?

239. 0:59:22

     We're not touching any of that. It's all done. However they do it now is how they're gonna do it moving forward.

240. 0:59:28

     Right, which is my concern, which means we may not have seats-

241. 0:59:31

     Mm-hmm

242. 0:59:31

     ... for the four-year-olds who really needs them.

243. 0:59:33

     Okay.

244. 0:59:34

     All right.

245. 0:59:34

     Duly noted.

246. 0:59:38

     Number 29.

247. 0:59:42

     Mr. Chairman, at the appropriate time.

248. 0:59:44

     We, we, we've got one-

249. 0:59:47

     I got one

250. 0:59:47

     ... here. Um, number 22 or...

251. 0:59:50

     Yeah, just to my colleague's, uh, point of concern, I would refer to line 19 where it says, uh, "Permit a child to be enrolled in such a program for more than year..." So they are not allowed to be more than one year.

252. 1:00:05

     Yeah, let me clarify. This was... So this is for s- Five-year-olds that did not get into pre-K the first time around, and the parents saying that they're not ready for kindergarten. That's, that's what we're doing here, and it's really dealing with kids born between August 1st and, and the end of August.

253. 1:00:25

     I have two children born at the end of August. I'm real clear with what you're doing.

254. 1:00:29

     There you go.

255. 1:00:30

     I still want my statement built in.

256. 1:00:32

     I understand.

257. 1:00:33

     Okay. The, you know, e- exhausting questions for a minute here. Members, we have three bills today that did not go through our normal process of subcommittee due to the lateness of this session, so we're gonna allow some public input. We have had, uh, it appears to me to be one sign-up for this one. Um, is it Ron Mayo?

258. 1:01:02

     Ron.

259. 1:01:03

     Ron? There you go, Ron. Come on. Let me turn your podium mic on. Introduce yourself, Ron. We'll give you a, a good solid minute if you think you can get it done that fast.

260. 1:01:14

     Ron Mayo, Georgia Charter Schools Association. We support the bill.

261. 1:01:18

     Okay.

262. 1:01:18

     And appreciate the effort.

263. 1:01:20

     Perfect. Thank you, Ron.

264. 1:01:23

     That's how you do it.

265. 1:01:24

     Good lead off, Ron.

266. 1:01:25

     That's how you do it.

267. 1:01:25

     I like it, man. Good lead off hitter. We'll put him up to bat every bill now. Um, let, let, let's do this. Uh, not hearing any more public input there, make sure I saw that correct. Um, number two?

268. 1:01:46

     Thank you, Chairman. I'd like to make a motion, do pass, uh, SB 589 LC 395111S.

269. 1:01:55

     Second.

270. 1:01:55

     We got a motion and a second. Number 25.

271. 1:02:02

     Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman, I'd like to make an amendment.

272. 1:02:04

     Yes, sir.

273. 1:02:05

     Yes, sir. Uh, I've spoken with the bill sponsor, uh, and also with you. You should have with you at your desk right now AM 610034. Mr. Walker, if you could keep me honest, I would appreciate it. We would insert from AM 610034 after line 26 on the bill line nine through 21 of the amendment. Line nine would become section two, and as we push down line 27, it would become section three, and as we push down line 30, it would become section four.

274. 1:02:42

     That would be the amendment, and I would just ask for clarification from legislative counsel if I've articulated that correctly.

275. 1:02:52

     Yes.

276. 1:02:52

     Correct.

277. 1:02:53

     Thank you. That's the motion, Mr. Chairman.

278. 1:02:56

     And let's explain, members, what you're looking at there on the amendment is to add, uh, 988-

279. 1:03:06

     That's correct. Um-

280. 1:03:08

     ... to the back of the badges of the students if they produce those badges. And that 988 call, as I think many of you are aware of, is a suicide crisis, emotional distress.

281. 1:03:22

     And also substance abuse, and it was originally brought to us by Representative Herring.

282. 1:03:26

     Oh, yes.

283. 1:03:30

     And Mr. Chairman, if you'll allow, sh- she actually spoke with me on the floor today and, um, asked me to help her-

284. 1:03:36

     Yeah

285. 1:03:36

     ... find a, a vehicle for her good legislation. And, um, so I support it 'cause now I don't have to find one. Y'all found it for me.

286. 1:03:45

     And, and Mr. Chairman, I appreciate the rules chairman's flexibility in allowing us to use said document as a vehicle.

287. 1:03:53

     Well, good. It, it is nice when we play good in the sandbox together.

288. 1:03:57

     That's right.

289. 1:03:57

     Do you notice that, members?

290. 1:03:59

     We're gonna do kumbaya right after this, sir.

291. 1:04:02

     Can you make a second on his amendment?

292. 1:04:04

     Okay. N- we have amendment before you. Do we have a second for this amendment? And I do see it. Do we have further discussion? Uh, we got a second on this end, too, so, uh, oh, let me... Let's vote on the amendment that we are voting on that has been passed out to you. I believe it was AM 610034. All in favor say aye.

293. 1:04:32

     Aye.

294. 1:04:33

     All opposed, light sign. Your bill passes. Oh, no you don't.

295. 1:04:38

     Amendment.

296. 1:04:38

     Your amendment passes. Let's get your bill passed now. Seeing no other questions from you, let's, uh, vote on the bill, which is SB 589 LC 395111S. We have a motion and a second. All in favor? A- you're right, as amended. All in favor say aye.

297. 1:05:04

     Aye.

298. 1:05:05

     All opposed, light sign. Your bill passes.

299. 1:05:09

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

300. 1:05:10

     Thank you very much. Great job-

301. 1:05:11

     Appreciate it

302. 1:05:11

     ... getting that one moving for your community.

303. 1:05:15

     All right. Thank you.

304. 1:05:16

     Thank you, sir. Uh, didn't I-

305. 1:05:19

     Which one now?

306. 1:05:20

     Oh, wait a minute. Who's carrying your bill?

307. 1:05:22

     I can't remember. So-

308. 1:05:24

     Hilton

309. 1:05:25

     ... Hilton?

310. 1:05:26

     Yeah.

311. 1:05:26

     All right. We'll put Representative Hilton on that one.

312. 1:05:31

     Thank y'all.

313. 1:05:32

     Thank you, Chairman. Let's, uh, get Chairman Hickman back up here for his second bill before you, which is Senate Bill 515. We have a sub for this, too, I believe, so Senator, if you'll read your LC number, we'll get microphone back on for you.

314. 1:05:53

     Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, let me double check. LC 492750S is in-

315. 1:06:01

     That's correct

316. 1:06:02

     ... second.

317. 1:06:02

     Microphone's on for you.

318. 1:06:03

     Thank you, sir. Um, thank y'all so much for hearing this. This is a great bill. Again, as y'all well know, uh-

319. 1:06:09

     The General Assembly has had a tremendous passion over the last several years concerning our students not reading on grade level. And we all know that if we don't have teachers in the classroom, we're not gonna have students reading on grade level, and that's, th- that's another part of this bill. This bill actually came, uh, came out as a, uh, as a, as a recommendation out of Senate Resolution 237 that the Senate and the House were very, uh, involved in, uh, the Teacher Tax Credit Bill. This bill actually, though, is a extension of y'all's House Bill 32 that actually, that will expire, uh, December of this year.

320. 1:06:48

     So we, we've, we've looked at that bill. We made some modifications to it and I'll, I'll give those modifications, but let me give you some statistics first. In December of '25, according to Jodi, Dr. Jodi Barra with the, uh, Professional Standards Commission, there was 5,358 vacancies for teachers in Georgia. And I've had some people ask me about that and say, "Well, this has gotta be concentrated in this area, that area," whatever it is. But I asked, um, Dr. Barra to give me a, give me a list of all the, all the school districts and the, um, and, and, and where the vacancies are, and I think you'd be very surprised.

321. 1:07:22

     It's really spread throughout all of Georgia, anywhere from some having zero to the, uh, Atlanta, Fulton, um, having 1,051, I think it is, vacancies for, for teachers. If you drill on down to my, my area, uh, Evans County, one of the counties I'm so fortunate to represent... Makes me sound like a politician, don't it? Uh, fortunate to represent. Um, when they started out at school in, um, August of this year, according to, um, Dr. Anderson, uh, the superintendent, they had six vacancies in K through six.

322. 1:07:57

     K through five school, had six vacancies. That... And I said, "What does that mean?" He said, "We had no degreed teacher in the classroom." Well, about three weeks ago, um, I called Dr. Anderson again. I said, "How many vacancies do you ha- or do you have any?" He said, "I still have two vacancies." I said, "What does that mean?" He said, "I still have two classes that we do not have a degreed teacher in the classroom." You know, we can imagine if your c- your child or your grandchild was in those classrooms, you probably would be trying to find another school to put those kids in.

323. 1:08:30

     Well, that's not fair. That's not fair. So let's find ways to bring teachers into the classroom. So I, I, I like to always quote a b- a, a quote that Dr. Barra put in the Senate Resolution 237 that says two quotes, "Educators are the only workforce, and educators are the only workforce whose performance determines the quality and size of all future workforce." It starts with the teachers. Well, really it starts with the families, but the education, and it starts with the teachers and family.

324. 1:09:01

     Georgia cannot deliver on its commitment to students without a strong, stable educator workforce. So again, as I said, um, House Bill 32 expires 12/31/26. Uh, this bill looked at that bill and it made some modifications to it, and these are the modifications. Uh, House Bill 32 is a $3,000 tax credit for five years, which, um, for a thousand educators, which equates about three, not about, equates to $3 million. We talked to the Department of Revenue, Austin Gibbons, and Austin told us over the last three years that tax credit of $3,000 has not been used, uh, to its extent.

325. 1:09:42

     In '22, the amount that was used was 2,000, average was 2,294. In '23, the average was 2,486. In '24, it was 2,225. So what we did, we looked at that and said, "Well, if it not, it's not gonna be used, let- let's reduce the credit down, but extend the, but extend the amount of people that will qualify." So what we did, we reduced the credit down in this bill to $2,500 from 3,000, and we went from 1,000 people that would qualify to 1,200.

326. 1:10:15

     So the dollar amount's still $3 million. That's why we don't have a fiscal note on it. Nothing's changed. Still, still $3 million. We also, on line 70 through 73 of the bill, we also said that, that the State Board of Education along with DOE is, is, needs to take a more active approach in promoting this, this, uh, this bill and this tax credit. We need to get teachers to the rural, to the rural parts of Georgia. Also, the qualifying schools are the bottom 25%. We always look at those, and then we ask the Department of Education to identify 100 schools that will, that will qualify.

327. 1:10:53

     Now, Beth, excuse me. I didn't, almost said it. I didn't mean to. Um, Representative Ballard and I are very adamant in wording that on, um, line 129 through 133 that students in the area, these sh- these are teachers that qualify, students in areas of mathematics, special education, career technical and agricultural education, or reading, writing, or English language arts, provided, however, that such teachers in the areas of reading, writing, or English language arts shall hold a current dyslexia or reading endorsement approved by professional standards.

328. 1:11:30

     Now, I think that mirrors, mirrors several other bills that we've talked about. House members, this is a recruitment tool to these schools that qualify. It's not a retention tool. It's a recruitment tool. A vote for this bill will be a vote for the students. And again, this bill is effective January 1 of '27. There was a little bit of concern from our side in finance about that teachers that qualify for $3,000, um, in December of, or in '26, and we got $2,500 the next year, would it, would we exceed the three, $3 million limit?

329. 1:12:06

     So on line twen- 207 through 210- We put in there, in the no event shall the total amount of tax credits under this ta- code section exceed $3 million in any fiscal year. In event that such amount is not sufficient to pay the full tax credit to each eligible recipient, the tax credit for each eligible recipient shall be reduced on a pro rata basis. But again, this is a, this is a, a bill that's actually a continuational house bill with some modifications that we feel like it's a very good bill, and was identified out of a Senate Resolution 237 as to get, ways to get teachers into classrooms.

330. 1:12:48

     And I would be open for questions.

331. 1:12:51

     And, and another tool-

332. 1:12:53

     A tool for rural areas

333. 1:12:54

     ... for rural areas to recruit-

334. 1:12:55

     Yes, sir. Very much so

335. 1:12:56

     ... teachers, correct?

336. 1:12:57

     Yes, sir, very much so.

337. 1:12:58

     Okay.

338. 1:12:59

     And I'm not saying that the, like I said a few minutes ago, Mr. Chairman, up here in Atlanta, there was 1,051, but, you know, it's basically the 25 schools, 25% of the schools, the bottom 25%.

339. 1:13:10

     Bottom 25%.

340. 1:13:11

     Yes, sir.

341. 1:13:12

     That need the help.

342. 1:13:13

     Yes, sir.

343. 1:13:14

     Okay. Great, great job. Always appreciate you looking at, uh, our, our need for teachers and retention of our teachers, number one.

344. 1:13:25

     Thank you, Mr. Chair.

345. 1:13:26

     Yes, sir.

346. 1:13:28

     Uh, thanks, Mr. Chair.

347. 1:13:29

     Yes, sir.

348. 1:13:29

     Um, I'm always for finding ways to retain teachers and also recruit, so definitely interested in this bill. I just need some clarification, because with the cost of living going up today, I've been thinking we should go the other way, right? And I, I know you're trying to skip to the three million. I would like to go the other way to increase it. But I guess the question I have, just for clarification, you're saying right now that that benefit isn't being utilized?

349. 1:13:57

     No, sir. Well, well, yes and no. What we're saying is that the, um, the credit as exists right now is a, is a $3,000 credit, and, um, for 1,000 teachers. And so we looked at it with the state, with the, um, Department of Revenue, and over the last three years, it was 2,294 average, 2,486, and then, and actually in '24, it was 2,225.

350. 1:14:23

     Okay.

351. 1:14:24

     2,225. So what we did, we looked at it and we said, "Well, if we're not fully utilizing the credit, let's reduce the credit down, but extend to people that qualify."

352. 1:14:33

     Okay. And follow-up question: did we... So we did, um, exclusively 1,000 people qualified and used it, and we had-

353. 1:14:42

     No, sir, it did not. I think it wa- it was significantly less than then, and that's why we put the wording in here that, that said the State Board of Education esta- shall establish a teacher recruitment and retention program in lines 72 through to 73. We think that they, we really think if people, it's probably not, not a good assumption on my part, but if people knew about it more and it was promoted more, we believe that people would take effe- it'd take effect. I j- we just don't believe enough people are aware of it, and it's been, hadn't been promoted like it should be.

354. 1:15:14

     And last question. In, in promoting it, and that would be great, is there any possible way we can keep it at 3,000?

355. 1:15:21

     Well, if we, no, sir-

356. 1:15:22

     Let, let me explain a little bit. See, well, they're not using it, Representative, using the 3,000 now-

357. 1:15:28

     Right

358. 1:15:28

     ... so there would be no reason to keep it at 3,000.

359. 1:15:30

     Definitely.

360. 1:15:30

     He's getting down to more of an average of what is being used.

361. 1:15:34

     Definitely.

362. 1:15:34

     You might only have one person that maxes out now. Uh, being a teacher myself, we're, we're not buying the houses that are paying the taxes that are costing 3,000. It's more like 2,200.

363. 1:15:46

     Yeah. Okay.

364. 1:15:47

     That, that, that is correct.

365. 1:15:48

     All right.

366. 1:15:48

     That is correct. That's r-

367. 1:15:49

     Thanks

368. 1:15:49

     ... and, and we would, in order to do that, we'd have to have a- a- another, another fiscal note on it, too, so that, that would just slow down our process-

369. 1:15:56

     Okay

370. 1:15:56

     ... or maybe stop our process.

371. 1:15:57

     All right. Thank you.

372. 1:15:58

     Thank you.

373. 1:15:58

     Let us keep working around. Number 21.

374. 1:16:00

     Thank you, sir.

375. 1:16:02

     Thank you, Chairman. Again, I do appreciate this bill, and I did want to say for clarity, in addition to this bill, you had mentioned that, um, we have a lot of teachers that are not currently participating in this, and also want the people at home to know your efforts and how you have worked and talked with Department of Education, our teachers associations, um, our EPP programs and making sure that the knowledge that this program is out there, um, is utilized to the maximum, and it will help us in fact, you know, recruit and retain our teachers.

376. 1:16:33

     So thank you very much.

377. 1:16:34

     Thank you. And I think you and I actually talked about that on our panel discussion down-

378. 1:16:39

     That's right

379. 1:16:39

     ... back in October or November. Thank you.

380. 1:16:42

     All right. Let, let's work to get into a higher gear here with our questions. So number 14.

381. 1:16:51

     Representative Glaize.

382. 1:16:56

     She's waving.

383. 1:16:56

     No. Waving. Number 18.

384. 1:17:01

     Thank you, Chairman. Uh, Chairman, I heard what you said, but in my, uh, my brain is trying to calculate. So you're saying that even though it was 3,000, and that would have allowed for 1,000 teachers, but we've had less than 1,000 teachers who have applied for the credit?

385. 1:17:23

     Yes, ma'am. I think it was actually in, in 20, the last year I, I have the numbers on, 2024, and I think there was only, like, 600 that actually applied for it. And, and I think it's a matter of communication. I just don't think our departments have, have, have let the people know that this is a, you know, $3,000, $2,500 is a big amount of tax to a person that makes $45,000 a year.

386. 1:17:47

     I was about to say, yeah, then that's why I was trying to understand why were we reducing it. But my more technical question is, um, how is this credit applied? Is this a true tax credit when they're filing for their taxes, or is this an offset to their tax liability?

387. 1:18:04

     Well, it, I guess the question is the same, 'cause it would be an offset against the tax liability.

388. 1:18:10

     So-

389. 1:18:10

     It's not a r- it, it, it's only, it, it's, it's only a refundable credit to the extent. If, if a person has a, has a $2,500 tax liability Th- this credit would offset that tax liability dollar for dollar, so they'd end up getting all the money back.

390. 1:18:26

     M- may we further-

391. 1:18:28

     Yes, ma'am

392. 1:18:29

     ... uh, okay, so, and I'm only being technical 'cause-

393. 1:18:31

     No, I

394. 1:18:31

     ... this is where I live.

395. 1:18:32

     I'm fine.

396. 1:18:32

     Um, so if you have a teacher who has a zero tax liability, then this credit won't benefit them.

397. 1:18:40

     Mm.

398. 1:18:40

     Do we have any data to d- to identify whether or not we've had teachers who maybe applied for this, but because they had zero tax liability, they weren't able to take advantage of the credit?

399. 1:18:52

     No, ma'am, I do not.

400. 1:18:53

     Okay, and is there an opportunity to amend this, that it is a true tax credit and not an offset to their tax liability?

401. 1:19:02

     I don't know the answer to that.

402. 1:19:04

     Okay.

403. 1:19:04

     I don't know the answer to that.

404. 1:19:06

     Okay, where would we get that answer? 'Cause I would love to be able to do, to, um, if we're gonna do a tax credit, I would love for it to be a true tax credit and not an offset to their tax liability.

405. 1:19:16

     You actually, you talking about a, a, actually, if they have zero tax liability, they would still receive the 20-

406. 1:19:22

     Well, if they have a zero tax liability, they wouldn't have anything to offset the credit against.

407. 1:19:26

     Mm.

408. 1:19:26

     So they, even though they apply and they qualify, they would get zero because their tax liability is zero.

409. 1:19:32

     Right.

410. 1:19:32

     Let, let me do this. I'm gonna ask legislative counsel to weigh in on this, to your, your questions, representative. Let, let me state that this is in current law and being practiced. This isn't something we're developing.

411. 1:19:46

     Mm.

412. 1:19:46

     He's amending that current law with this language. And so there are teachers, and he estimated about 600 maybe, that are taking advantage of this.

413. 1:19:56

     No, no, clear. That's why I was asking, 'cause if, if it's something, if it's amendable, I wanted us to be able to amend it. That's why I was asking the question.

414. 1:20:06

     It, it does. Currently, it does reduce the tax liability. That's, that's what the, that's what the bill says.

415. 1:20:12

     Yes, that's why I wanted clarity.

416. 1:20:13

     Let me let-

417. 1:20:13

     And that's the current law

418. 1:20:14

     ... legislative counsel see if, uh-

419. 1:20:17

     To, to be frank, uh, Mr. Chairman, I don't know that it's amendable. Converting this to a refundable tax credit, uh, that is something that I would actually want to consult with my ways and means experts in the office, uh, to know whether there would need to be any particular language that's included or a fiscal study that's done. This would change the, the, um, the implications of the bill-

420. 1:20:40

     That's right

421. 1:20:40

     ... for it to be a refundable tax credit rather than just a tax credit. So I don't know. At this, at this moment, I don't know that I would be capable of amending.

422. 1:20:49

     Okay.

423. 1:20:49

     Okay, thank you. There. I do not see any other questions, so let me ask the will of the group. What's, what's your number?

424. 1:21:00

     24.

425. 1:21:00

     24, gotcha.

426. 1:21:01

     Yes, yes, sir. I move due pass for House Bill 15, 515.

427. 1:21:11

     Senate Bill.

428. 1:21:11

     Senate Bill 515. Thank you.

429. 1:21:14

     And it's LC49275OS. Do we have a second?

430. 1:21:20

     Second.

431. 1:21:20

     We do have a second. Seeing no other questions, let's vote on this one then. We've just read out the numbers. Um, all in favor say aye.

432. 1:21:33

     Aye.

433. 1:21:33

     All opposed, like sign. All right. Your bill passes. Who's gonna carry this one, Senator?

434. 1:21:40

     Representative Rice is gonna do it for me.

435. 1:21:42

     Okay, right here, Representative Rice.

436. 1:21:44

     Yes, sir.

437. 1:21:44

     Thank you.

438. 1:21:45

     Thank you.

439. 1:21:46

     And thank you for your attention to education and working-

440. 1:21:49

     Yes, sir

441. 1:21:49

     ... with this committee here on their bills coming over into your committee.

442. 1:21:53

     Will do.

443. 1:21:53

     I know y'all have been working hard with many of these members.

444. 1:21:57

     Yes, sir.

445. 1:21:58

     So.

446. 1:21:58

     As I, as I've said many times, it's always been a pleasure. Both education committees, Senate and House, work very slo- closely together, and we appreciate it. Thank you.

447. 1:22:07

     Thank you.

448. 1:22:08

     Y'all have a great day. Appreciate it.

449. 1:22:12

     Thank you. Um, let me see here. Let's get, uh, didn't I see Senator, uh, Kirkpatrick come in the room earlier, and she had to go out of the room?

450. 1:22:27

     She did. She had to go back to help. They, they were short on numbers, so.

451. 1:22:31

     Is she gonna come back, Representative?

452. 1:22:34

     If she's not, I can cover.

453. 1:22:36

     Well, could you text her and find that out for me?

454. 1:22:39

     She's right here.

455. 1:22:41

     I don't think she is.

456. 1:22:42

     Yep.

457. 1:22:43

     She was here.

458. 1:22:44

     All right. Let's go to, uh, uh, Senator Harbin. I think I see you sitting there. If you'll come up, read your LC for Senate Bill 425, members, right in the middle of your agenda, 425 here. And then read your LC number, Senator.

459. 1:23:05

     Okay. Thank you.

460. 1:23:05

     And welcome to our committee.

461. 1:23:07

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee. LC 610497S, uh, should be, and it ch- it, it is-

462. 1:23:16

     Okay, that's the one in front of me, members. I-

463. 1:23:19

     Good

464. 1:23:19

     ... it's 610497S. So.

465. 1:23:24

     Okay. Got that. We're good.

466. 1:23:25

     My phone's on and yours.

467. 1:23:26

     Very good. Very good. Started out as a very simple bill, and that is requiring cursive writing for our, to be taught in our schools, which sounds kind of, you know, simple in that respect, but yet it's not required to be taught. And one of the things what we're finding out is there, well, how about this? California and New Hampshire have become m- most recent states to add that to their, a requirement. And what we find out is that when young people cannot write in cursive, uh, it creates issues that they can't read historical documents, they can't read personal correspondence, uh, handwritten notes.

468. 1:24:01

     Uh, cursive is not nostalgic. It's really literacy in that respect. Surprisingly, the other thing that we found out during that time is that it also helps young people with dyslexia. It actually ties the brain to, to what they're writing with their hand, and handwritten actually helps remembering things far better than taking notes. And we've moved a lot to technology. So that's really what the bill does there. Now, since this morning, the bill has changed in a few other ways, which I think are good.

469. 1:24:33

     Don't laugh about that. You gotta know what's going on. It moves. Uh, the, the second part, and I think it's really a good part, and I was very open to it, is Stop The Bleed. Uh, I don't know if you know this, but I, I was able to hear a, a general in the Army talk about when they put the Stop the Bleed kits in the field with the soldiers when they were shot, it actually decreased the mortality rate by a third or more. So that these Stop the Bleed kits are very, very important, and the bill does this. It strengthens the school's emergency preparedness by addressing both the cardiac emergencies and severe bleeding incidences and ensures that schools are equipped not only with AEDs, which I guess I'm famous for in that respect, but also the bleed control kits is closing a critical safety gap for our schools, which is one of our priorities, I believe.

470. 1:25:23

     Requiring a sort of, uh, coordination with EM, uh, EMS and clear communication protocol ensuring s- uh, responders can quickly act in life-threatening situations and emphasizing immediate action during the first critical moments of an emergency, and that's where these Stop the Bleed kits are very, very important in doing that. The latter part was something that was added to my bill, and I'm, like I said, I'm learning as I go, but bear with my learning. Uh, but I think it also is this. It provides, this is a protection for educators that it provides a pathway for sc- uh, school employees who are victims of physical violence to transfer within their district, explicitly prohibits retaliation and reinforces a safer working environment for educators.

471. 1:26:07

     I found that to be very, how do I say, disturbing, but yet I can understand that if there has been a, a, an event like that, that teacher may not want to be in that place. And so that's really, those were added on to, uh, my wonderful closing, cursive writing bill this morning. I have to be careful. You say cursive, you kinda come curse. But no, nevertheless, don't worry that. But, uh, I will tell you this. One of the teachers that I talked to said this, "I gave a t- teacher... I, I gave a student instructions in cursive writing and gave it to him and said, 'Would you do this?' And he came back to me and says, 'I can't read this.'" And I believe that's a handicap that we need to deal with and we need to address and require that.

472. 1:26:46

     And, you know, uh, it's interesting. In my Senate card, I did something different. I, my Senate card has my signature on it, and that's what I give to everybody is my signature. It's my John Hancock, if you will. And I believe that's important for every individual to be able to sign their name and take pride in what that's going on. So that's what the bill really came into play and what it does. Great. Well, thank you, Senator. Um, I'm gonna go around the room for a few questions. Number three. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

473. 1:27:16

     Uh, to, to the senator, so I'm gonna focus on, I guess, y- your bill. Um, the, the, the part, anybody that receives funds, so that would include private schools, charter schools, online schools, anybody that receives state funds, right? If they receive, if they receive funds, they will comply starting in third grade as far as that portion. What happens if they don't? Like, how are we gonna make sure a char- a private school teaches cursive? Are we gonna pull away the scholarship or homeschool? I think that would be what would happen. I don't know. Is homeschool a school? I've not addre- I've not addressed that.

474. 1:27:46

     I will say this, currently in the pri- in the public school issue, we are doing a program that is called the John Hancock. Mm-hmm. And if the students can sign their name and write the, uh, first parts of the declaration in cursive, they actually get an award from the current, uh, program. That's not in this bill, but that's what's going on right now because it's optional in that respect. Gotcha. I like it. Yeah. I'm just curious if DOE- Right ... is gonna put it in their curriculum. We need to find a way, we, we need to maybe address that, is how do we, how do we enforce that? Um, but I'm like this, if we make it law, I think from what I'm getting from most of my teachers, it's that something that they really think will help.

475. 1:28:23

     And even I was surprised is the dyslexia issue is that, you think about it, we've gone to tablets on everything, if you will, and I really think that the tying the b- the brain to that handwritten note, I can think about this. I know where things are, where I've written them down, and I think it's good for our students. Okay. Okay. Again, trying to get in high gear. Number 24. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Senator, I've studied overseas. Other countries teach cursive, and I applaud this legislation at the appropriate time.

476. 1:28:59

     It is the appropriate time. Nobody else is flashing. Good. I move, let me get my glasses. Uh, I move that Senate Bill 425, let me find the LC number. Uh, LC610497S receive the due pass designation. Second.

477. 1:29:25

     Well, let me check on that. Correct here. What, what was your LC number? I've got an LC610497S. 97S. Okay. Okay. Just making sure we, we had the right one in front of you. All right. We have a motion. Do we have a second? Second. Yeah. We do have a second. We got a little discussion. Number 10. Yeah. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Sorry, I didn't get my... I just had a clarifying question, uh, in regards to the question over here, uh, in regards to private schools.

478. 1:30:02

     So say a private school receives Promise Scholarship funds, so then they, because they receive that, they then would have to provide cursive? I think so. I think so. That's your understanding? Okay. Because here's what I'll say. If they receive money from the state, they would be... And I will say this, most private schools that we saw- Yeah, most already do it. Yeah ... they already do it. It's, it's almost a requirement, if you will. I guess it just gives me a little heartburn. I always like to kind of make sure- Okay ...

479. 1:30:32

     there's a bright red line between the two.

480. 1:30:35

     Yeah. I may abstain, I don't know. Okay, we've got a, uh, motion and a second. Members, let's vote on this. Uh, we've already read the LC number on Senate Bill 425. All in favor say aye.

481. 1:30:52

     Aye.

482. 1:30:52

     All opposed, like sign. All right, your bill passes. Thank you, sir. Thank you. Who is gonna carry your bill? I was gonna ask Lee Hawkins to do that. That'd be a very good idea, I think. We'll put Hawkins down. All right, Senator. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you, committee. Appreciate it. Thank you. Um.

483. 1:31:16

     Okay, let's see. I think I saw her come in and she was sitting there. Um, Senator Kirkpatrick, would you come up there, read your LC number to me, and then we'll turn the microphone over to you. I think it is 431, members.

484. 1:31:36

     Uh, that's correct, and the LC I have, Mr. Chair, is 492837S.

485. 1:31:45

     Okay. I do not have 37S, members. I have 34S.

486. 1:31:50

     34S.

487. 1:31:57

     34S.

488. 1:31:57

     Stand by till we can make sure we're looking from the correct sub.

489. 1:32:04

     That's what we have.

490. 1:32:06

     This one should be later, right? 'Cause it's got a higher number. This is the one that-

491. 1:32:11

     Senator

492. 1:32:11

     ... had the IPSE.

493. 1:32:13

     Okay. Um, it's, uh, 37 should be the last two. 37. Let me, let me see another.

494. 1:32:18

     Yeah, there was another section.

495. 1:32:20

     You wanna hold onto that- Let's see if that happens ... just in case?

496. 1:32:23

     Sure. Um, I think this one is where w- it's been amended twice, once with a sort of cleanup for 268 that Representative Persinger is way more of an expert on that part of the bill than I am, and then there was a second addition for the IPSE grants.

497. 1:32:45

     And then we can-

498. 1:32:46

     And that's what's in this.

499. 1:32:48

     Okay, let's do this. We have it. We'll give you, uh, gi- give our admin here a moment to make a copy to pass these out, and then we'll cover that one you're talking about. They're gonna run, take care of this straight down the hall.

500. 1:33:05

     Do you want me to stand by, or do you want me to go ahead?

501. 1:33:09

     Can you stand by? Stand by. We think we can move very quickly. There's a copier right there, and she'll make it very quick for everybody. I'd just prepare, and Representative Persinger, if you wanna step up here for the school safety part and the federal regulations for this bill.

502. 1:33:27

     Yes, Senator Camp-

503. 1:33:27

     Is that okay with you, Senator?

504. 1:33:28

     Yes, Senator Camp is actually, I know she's presented this bill to you already, because I was, I couldn't-

505. 1:33:35

     Right

506. 1:33:35

     ... be here, and she is now presenting a bill at this moment in the Senate Health Committee that I just walked out of to come here. And when that bill is finished, I'm sure she'll be back. So-

507. 1:33:46

     Yeah

508. 1:33:46

     ... anyway, it's a team sport around here-

509. 1:33:48

     Yes

510. 1:33:48

     ... these days, isn't it?

511. 1:33:49

     Absolutely. Well, thank you. And we, we can go ahead and ask you, if this bill passes, is, are you expecting, uh, Representative, uh, Camp to carry this, Chairman Camp?

512. 1:33:59

     Yes, she's agreed to carry it.

513. 1:34:01

     I'm gonna go ahead and put that down, if it passes.

514. 1:34:17

     Representative Persinger, we're gonna, um, make you get up and down a couple of times. Um, let, let's do this. We, we, we're notified here, it'll probably take 10, 15 minutes for the copies to get done to us now. So if you could, while we're making the copies, just wait on us, Senator, right here. Senator Camp, we're gonna put you up to bat here, if that's okay. Is that okay? I know you need to probably get back to your committee.

515. 1:34:45

     I do, whenever it's, I can.

516. 1:34:47

     Would you like this gentleman to present for you?

517. 1:34:51

     He would, I think he's well qualified to present for me, if that's okay-

518. 1:34:55

     Okay

519. 1:34:55

     ... with you, Mr. Chair.

520. 1:34:55

     We, we could cover if you need to go back. I'll be happy to. He's willing to be up for you when the copies get here. Thank you, Senator.

521. 1:35:02

     Okay.

522. 1:35:02

     And thank you for the look at this-

523. 1:35:03

     Yeah

524. 1:35:03

     ... for the foster kids that you put in this bill.

525. 1:35:07

     And if you need me to come back, someone text me, please.

526. 1:35:10

     We'll, we'll notify you.

527. 1:35:12

     Okay. Thank you.

528. 1:35:12

     Senator Camp, if you would come up to the podium. We're looking at, uh, SB 475. Read your LC number. So members, we're gonna switch right now, while we're making the copies, to SB 475.

529. 1:35:32

     And yes, sir. Mr. Chairman, I have LC492848S.

530. 1:35:37

     That's correct.

531. 1:35:38

     All right.

532. 1:35:39

     You got it. It's yours.

533. 1:35:42

     All right. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and committee. Uh, today I bring Senate Bill 475, which passed out of the Senate with ba- broad bipartisan support. Um, and this does include a committee sub, uh, and so what is included is a minor change, uh, in the c- from the committee, uh, amendment that was, uh, a late amendment to clarify some language, and I'll speak to that here in a second. Um, so this bill has a couple substantive areas of focus. First, it lowers the required electorate threshold.

534. 1:36:13

     We've talked about that today. This is an important matter to the Senate, uh, for independent school districts to consolidate with school systems, uh, in their area. Uh, and then secondly, ensures that the same equitable standard that is currently applied to charter school QBE funding is also applied to charter school ESPLOST funding by requiring local boards of education to treat local charter schools no less favorably than other public schools with respect to ESPLOST expenditures And so I'm gonna speak to the need for Section 4.

535. 1:36:48

     We've already, uh, discussed, I've sat through and heard you all talk about the first section. Um, so the ESPLOST provision, it is illustrated in the findings of ExcelinEd's 2025 analysis of Georgia Charter School Facility Finance Landscape, which confirmed the following. The state currently covers less than one-third of charter facility expenses. This funding gap rep- represents $2,400 per student, and is three times higher than that in Tennessee and other neighboring states.

536. 1:37:19

     So to put it in practical terms, if Georgia eliminated the fa- the facility funding gap altogether, every charter school could hire 20 additional teachers. But unlike traditional public schools, Georgia charter schools receive little to no ESPLOST funding to support their capital needs, and they cannot levy taxes to pay for their buildings. So in the absence of these traditional forms of capital support, charter schools must pursue higher cost private sector financing. Section 4 simply ensures that as local boards consider capital needs within their respective districts, they must also consider the needs of all public schools, including their charter schools.

537. 1:38:03

     And so I'm just gonna speak a little bit about the tweak that was made for the amendment at the end of Section 4, um, that clarifies that districts are not expected to spend ESPLOST funds on any building that is not owned by local district or the charter school. Um, so that makes sure that it stays within, uh, our public space. And so with that, that is the bill and I'm happy to answer any questions.

538. 1:38:29

     Great. Thank you, Senator. You do have a, a couple of questions. Let me start with Vice Chair 21 here.

539. 1:38:36

     Hi, Senator.

540. 1:38:36

     Hi.

541. 1:38:36

     Thank you, thank you for this bill. I appreciate this. Um, and I wanted to ask you, I know, like, it was pretty late on Friday when you did the last amendment, and, um, I had some, uh, language on our charter school cleanup bill, and it did, it was attached to another bill, but to confirm that we were able to, and it passed out of this committee, um, on Senator Stills' bill. But to confirm that we have these provisions, just so add that cleanup, uh, would you consider a friendly amendment to add that back in, just as we try to get this, these bills through the finish line to make sure that we have that part covered, um, this session?

542. 1:39:12

     Absolutely. And you're speaking of the SESC, uh, cleanup language?

543. 1:39:16

     That's correct.

544. 1:39:16

     Yes, ma'am. Absolutely.

545. 1:39:18

     So if I could ask legal counsel, that would be the... Basically, that would be the same version that it was Friday prior to that request, correct?

546. 1:39:26

     Yes.

547. 1:39:28

     We would need to continue if the bill gets a, a due pass, w- we, we could talk about amendment at that time, Vice Chair. Let's try number 18.

548. 1:39:40

     Thank you, Chairman. Thank you, my friend.

549. 1:39:44

     Hi, friend.

550. 1:39:45

     But, uh- Anyway. Sir, okay.

551. 1:39:49

     Yes, ma'am.

552. 1:39:50

     Um, I know you said that this was discussed, but I, I, I may have missed that discussion and I'm processing, 'cause, you know, I'm a numbers person, and this is not computing. Um, so this first section, uh, 18 to 31-

553. 1:40:03

     Mm-hmm

554. 1:40:03

     ... uh, current law, I guess, has one fourth, which is 25%, I'm just trying to see if I got my math together, of qualified voters. But what you're, uh, this language wants 10%. That brings me a lot of pause, um, because, um, in some of our municipalities the, uh, turnout is low. And, uh, to make this even lower, we could be disenfranchising the majority of the students in, in that district.

555. 1:40:39

     So can you just help me understand the rationale from lowering the percentage of voters when, uh, we're looking to what this says, a null, a local s- a local law establishing such independent school?

556. 1:40:54

     Yeah. So the 10% requirement is for 10% of signatures, and that is just to get it on the ballot. So you have to... So one would have to get 10% of the ele- electorate to sign a petition to get it as a referendum, and then it's put on the ballot, and that's when the whole city can take a vote.

557. 1:41:16

     Mm.

558. 1:41:19

     It's still kinda low, but I hear you. Thank you.

559. 1:41:24

     Yeah. Uh, number 29.

560. 1:41:29

     Uh, right here. Uh, thank you for bringing this legislation. Just clarifying with, uh, ESPLOST, um, having been voted on and have specific funding uses targeted, they have to list it, um, is there any concern about how this language is written? I just wanna make sure. Obviously can't change anything that's already been voting on, so it'd only be future ESPLOSTs, and they would have to specifically outline which project at, at, at that locally owned property or that local charter.

561. 1:42:00

     Would this also include state charter schools not approved by the locals? Or it's only those local charters that are approved by the locals?

562. 1:42:07

     It's the latter.

563. 1:42:08

     Okay.

564. 1:42:08

     They cannot include state charters in their ESPLOST determinations.

565. 1:42:14

     Okay.

566. 1:42:14

     It's only for the locally approved schools that are in that district.

567. 1:42:17

     Okay. All right. And then I just wanna clarify something. Sorry. The language that you had, s- line 17 through 31, that was actually in another bill that we just heard.

568. 1:42:28

     That's right.

569. 1:42:28

     Is, is it necessary to have them both? I'm just asking the question. I don't... Okay.

570. 1:42:37

     Depends on if one of them doesn't pass, the other one does.

571. 1:42:39

     I gotcha. Okay, I'll let it fly. I don't wanna be in ti-

572. 1:42:43

     And we're gonna go all the way to number two

573. 1:42:47

     Thank you, Chairman. Senator, thank you for the bill. Um, the lowering the requirement, I know Rep Carter just mentioned, um, the, the uneasiness she has with that. Mm-hmm. Uh, similar to the conversation we had with Chairman Hickman, every city's not created the same. Right. And these are big, significant decisions. Mm-hmm. And so, um, while 10% might not be much, um, in my city, uh, someone else's city, that might be a pretty low bar to clear- Yeah ...

574. 1:43:19

     in order to start this process. Mm-hmm. And so I know you and I have had a, a great conversation offline about- Mm ... um, my concern around this. And Rep Glaze, I'm, I'm not sure if you had a specific amendment, um, in mind. I, I don't. But I still have the same concern in reference to the percentages and the different sizes of our cities. Um, but I didn't do enough to know- Talk into the microphone, please. I actually didn't know enough about how many cities have, um, charters that are locally, local charters.

575. 1:43:55

     So I don't know if I have enough information. Um, does anyone have the information on how many local charters we have- So- ... around the state? If I may, it's two different issues. So you're speaking about the referendum language, right? Yes. So it's important to point out that, you know, this is, in my view, the ultimate form of accountability. If there is an issue, a major issue in a school district, as we've seen recently, this allows for the community to say, "Hey, we need to make a change." And yes, it is a big change, and so that is still put up to the full electorate in that city to make that determination if that is what they want to do.

576. 1:44:40

     They can vote it down. Even if I get the 10% of the electorate to sign a petition, it's still up to the whole city to make that decision, and they can vote it down if that's not a change that they're comfortable making. Okay. Thank you. Okay, back over to 28 on this end of the room. Thank you, Chairman. Um, section four, line 60 through 66, so I, I need some clarification if you could help me here. Yes, sir. Um, is the intent, um, in line 64 that local systems shall have no obligation, is the intent that, um, they're not required to, or are you trying to restrict it?

577. 1:45:23

     What we're trying to do is make sure that this stays in the public space. So if, for example, a charter school facility is owned by a private company, we would not be putting funds into a private facility, but if it is owned by the local district or the charter school, which is a public entity, they can be included in the East BLOS, uh, allocations. Okay. Follow-up, and I may need help from Leg Council on this one. So is, is the language, "Shall have no obligation to," doing what he is- Give us a line number.

578. 1:45:57

     Line 64. I'm just curious if, "Shall have no obligation to," that doesn't sound like we're trying to restrict it. It sounds like it's, uh, they can do the other. Am I misreading that?

579. 1:46:14

     Uh, yes. Uh, Representative, that is correct. This is not a prohibition against the expenditure of those proceeds for such purpose. This simply says the obligation, uh, provided for in this subsection, um, does not apply to the private entities. So in other words, it does not create an obligation, but it also does not, uh, provide for a prohibition. So should... A- and based on the intent of what you're- Yeah ... trying to do, I, maybe this language should be adjusted.

580. 1:46:47

     That's just a s- question. Yeah, I'd be fine with an amendment. I just don't know what word would work better, so I'll leave it up to- We, we will come back- ... Legislative Council to amend ... any amendments we do to it. I wanna keep the discussion going. Number three. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, quick question. When the voters inside that city decide to do away with the school system, what happens to the debt that they have? Does that go to the county school system? So I don't know the exact answer to that, so I don't want to profess that I'm gonna give you the correct answer.

581. 1:47:18

     So I- Does anybody know? I'm just curious if- For, for- ... if a city runs... 'Cause I'm assuming we're talking about city schools. Right, yeah. I know it's been- And you can't create any new ones. So if a city school runs it into the ground- Yeah ... does the county then pick up the obligation? Yeah, I know we had, we've had consolidation before, but I don't know if somebody from Department of Ed or Leg Council can- I think the answer is y- yes. So I mean, because, because at the end of the day, the city gets to decide, not the county, so the county has to take them back and all that debt and obligations that happened before then.

582. 1:47:48

     And so that would be probably one of the only concerns that I probably have is, is just that liability they'd have to take on, so. Yeah, that's correct. Okay, thanks. Yeah. Number four. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Thank you, Senator. The, the, for, for sake of a definition, what is a, the terminology no less favorable? What, you know- Yeah, so that is the language that's been used for over two decades as it relates to charter school funding. And so school districts, uh, should be very familiar with how to apply that because that has been the history of the state, and so that is what is used for title funding already for charter schools.

583. 1:48:31

     It's already precedent. I had to look it up, but... Yeah. Okay, number 29. Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Just clarification. Uh, my understanding is that currently if a local charter has been approved, that school boards can include those local charter, locally owned facilities in existing East BLOS. That's right, and there are- So- Oh, sorry. Go ahead, I'm sorry ... but just for clarification-

584. 1:48:56

     why are we, why are we bringing that language if they already can do it?

585. 1:49:01

     Yeah. So there are districts that are not applying this same understanding to ESPLOST, and so this bill would clarify that to make it s- clear that it is not separate from the fact that you don't treat them no less favorably with QBE funding. The same applies to ESPLOST funding.

586. 1:49:19

     Okay. All right. And then just, Mr. Chairman, I think that the Department of Education does have somebody here to a- if the chairman has a question that he wants clarification. I know there was some mention, and I saw our friend Matt is here in case.

587. 1:49:30

     Okay.

588. 1:49:31

     Thank you.

589. 1:49:31

     And, and just a minute. Let me do this so that we get the will of the committee. We don't have any flashing lights. What is the will on ... And, and we do have speakers to the bill.

590. 1:49:46

     We have to get them first.

591. 1:49:47

     Yep, you're right. We do have speakers here. Before we check your will of this, um, and I count one, two, three, four-

592. 1:49:59

     Wow

593. 1:49:59

     ... speakers to this. Let's, uh, let- let's keep that to as close to a minute as you can. If you absolutely gotta go over, I'll let you. Let me, uh, ask you to stick tight to guard the next couple of bills we've gotta talk about. First one up is Donovan Head. Donovan, I saw you sitting out there. If you would, introduce yourself. Don- Donovan, I got the mic on, and, uh, it is yours.

594. 1:50:26

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee. Donovan Head here with the State Charter Schools Commission. Appreciate all that you do for our, our students around Georgia. Um, we just wanna say that we, uh, have been actively engaged with Senator Kemp with this bill. We are very interested in it. Um, it would definitely s- uh, help our charter schools. I did wanna answer, um, uh, Representative Wade's question on why the language is needed. Uh, next, a very few of our local charter schools are actually, actually currently receiving, uh, ESPLOST dollars, so that's why the clarification's needed.

595. 1:50:58

     But thank you.

596. 1:50:59

     Okay. Good job, Mr. Head. Let's go to our second one, Mike Ty- M- Mike Tyson. Listen, Matt Tyson. I don't know if you've been a boxer before-

597. 1:51:09

     I'm out of topic, but that's okay

598. 1:51:10

     ... Mike. Uh-

599. 1:51:11

     Thank you, all. I will not take all day. My name is Matthew Tyson. I'm the CEO of Tapestry Public Charter Schools. Our goal is to service a neurodiverse population. Half of our kids are autistic, half are not, middle and high school. We're small. We care about our kids. All we want is equal funding. We are in very much support of this bill. We make do with less than other schools, with a more challenging population, and we do it because we love the children, because we love what we do. It is hard being subject to harder scrutiny than your district schools, and then everybody else jumping through more hoops than they do, and still not receiving equal funding.

600. 1:51:44

     All we're really asking for is to be treated the same way as other district schools so that we can have more money to provide to our children so that they can have a better experience. Thank you.

601. 1:51:54

     Stay right there just a second, uh, Mr. Tyson.

602. 1:51:58

     Yes, sir.

603. 1:51:58

     Uh, do you have a question of Mr. Tyson-

604. 1:52:00

     Me?

605. 1:52:00

     ... Representative Glaize?

606. 1:52:01

     Yes.

607. 1:52:02

     Oh, we probably do.

608. 1:52:03

     Yes.

609. 1:52:04

     Yes, ma'am.

610. 1:52:05

     So where are your schools located? What systems in? Are they a part of the county system or the city system?

611. 1:52:11

     That would've been a great thing to mention, thank you. DeKalb County is where our first campus is. We were, thanks to amazing legislation passed, we are opening our second campus in three months down in Clayton County. Both are district authorized schools, and the Clayton one will be the first authorized in seven years, so we're really excited to, uh, do that work.

612. 1:52:28

     Is any of them at this point receiving any ESPLOST money?

613. 1:52:32

     We do not.

614. 1:52:33

     Okay, thank you.

615. 1:52:34

     Thank you.

616. 1:52:35

     Stay up there. I think you have another one, uh, Representative Carter.

617. 1:52:40

     Thank you, Chairman. I didn't realize you were about to ask quest- So, um, you mentioned Tapestry, and so I'm assuming both schools, even the new one, is a Tapestry sc- Tapestry school, and these are specialty charter schools, just not general charter schools.

618. 1:52:55

     We're a, we're a district charter school. We are, we don't have any, um, there's no, uh, we're, we're for a special reason, but there's no, like, our lottery is open and random so anybody-

619. 1:53:04

     Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I mean. So, like, your school is focused on, um, did you say autistic or s-

620. 1:53:09

     Uh, yes, autistic.

621. 1:53:10

     That's what I meant by a specialty school. So it's not just like a traditional charter. There's, like, a specific purpose that you're meeting a need that maybe, um, because of the special need. That's where I was going with the specialty school.

622. 1:53:22

     We have a different, yeah, we have a different-

623. 1:53:23

     Okay

624. 1:53:23

     ... population.

625. 1:53:24

     Thank you.

626. 1:53:25

     But it is a charter school.

627. 1:53:26

     No, I know.

628. 1:53:27

     Yep.

629. 1:53:27

     Yeah, thank you.

630. 1:53:28

     Thanks.

631. 1:53:28

     Number three.

632. 1:53:29

     Don't, don't leave, sorry.

633. 1:53:30

     Wait a second.

634. 1:53:31

     I got a question. Thank you.

635. 1:53:32

     Sorry. I'll just stand here.

636. 1:53:33

     Do you own the building where you are, or is it leased?

637. 1:53:36

     We, luckily, we own our current building, but the one that we're looking at is a lease agreement, and we're looking at trying to make that affordable and still stay within what-

638. 1:53:44

     Okay

639. 1:53:44

     ... a school takes.

640. 1:53:45

     Because your bill says they have to own it, so that'd be the only concern. I don't know how you address that or if you can, but you would not be able to use those SPLOST dollars for your leased building. You're good with that?

641. 1:53:54

     And I can say what we're trying to do as every charter, we want stability. We fight to be able to own, because with the rents increased, the only way that we can serve our children the best that we possibly can is to ideally own our buildings.

642. 1:54:06

     Great. Thank you.

643. 1:54:08

     Thank you. That, that, they've exhausted their questions to you-

644. 1:54:11

     Thank you. Appreciate it

645. 1:54:12

     ... Mr. Tyson. All right, Dr. Miller. Where is Dr. Miller at? Had signed up for this one. Do not see.

646. 1:54:21

     Oh.

647. 1:54:22

     Might have stepped out.

648. 1:54:23

     I think he's right there. Uh-

649. 1:54:24

     Um, Ron Mayo, you're back up. Ron?

650. 1:54:26

     You said Dr. Miller. Oh, he's right there.

651. 1:54:28

     Oh.

652. 1:54:28

     Miller's right there.

653. 1:54:29

     There you go.

654. 1:54:30

     Good afternoon, everyone. Uh, my name is Dr. Artesius Miller, founder and CEO of Utopian Academy for the Arts Charter School Network. I'm very proud to say that I've watched this, uh, bill go through the entire process with Senator Kemp. Uh, we're in a unique position. Utopian Academy for the Arts has four schools, uh, three of which are locally authorized and one is a state charter school. Um, it's so important that you get a chance to hear from the local charter community. Uh, we actually have all three of our, uh, locally authorized schools housed within Um, facilities that are district facilities.

655. 1:55:04

     However, as a locally authorized charter school, the question was asked, you know, are charter schools, uh, that are locally authorized eligible for SPLOST funding? It's never been offered, and I think that there is a gap with understanding that charter schools are still public schools. And it's highly critical that there is language that not only is defined for charter schools to have those same opportunities, because the reality is we have so many expenditures that we're responsible for, and we understand that as a charter school, but when you're in facilities that have repairs, that are capital costs, um, things happen when you're in older facilities, and some of them are unanticipated.

656. 1:55:48

     And so it's really important that when dollars are made available to the traditional public space, charter schools are also at the table because the needs are real, they're very consistent, we're all serving the same population, and it would be, um, detrimental if locally authorized charter schools that are operating in district facilities were not given the same opportunities as traditional public schools. It would be great if we had a, a new building that was constructed, but the reality is East SPLOST covers repairs and modifications that are necessary for the maintenance for public education.

657. 1:56:25

     And so I'm more than welcome to answer any questions that you might have, but I've watched this bill, um, specifically, and I'm speaking on behalf, I'm sorry, for Section 4, uh, but more than willing to answer any questions that you might have.

658. 1:56:35

     You do have a couple of questions. Number 12.

659. 1:56:38

     Thanks, Mr. Chair. This may be for the author, I'm not quite sure. But for it to be included, like, within East SPLOST, uh, it would have to be directed in this East SPLOST referendum, correct?

660. 1:56:49

     That's correct.

661. 1:56:49

     To make sure it'd be approved or whatever else.

662. 1:56:51

     That's correct.

663. 1:56:51

     So the voters will know what they're voting on when they, when they see it.

664. 1:56:54

     That's correct.

665. 1:56:55

     Okay. Thank you.

666. 1:56:56

     Yeah.

667. 1:56:56

     And you got one more, so stay up there, Dr. Miller. Number 14.

668. 1:57:02

     Yes. Thank you so much.

669. 1:57:03

     Yes, ma'am.

670. 1:57:03

     I'm, I'm trying to understand, how are you going to get the facility support in the East SPLOST that usually is coming from the county?

671. 1:57:14

     Right.

672. 1:57:14

     So how does that work, that you're gonna be able to... If this bill were to pass, then how would the process work? How would you get the bill? Maybe this is for the author. I'm not sure.

673. 1:57:27

     I, I, I can chime in. So just as, as, as a practitioner, I think the biggest thing is first setting a standard for the facilities department with all of our local school systems that charter schools are eligible for SPLOST funding-

674. 1:57:39

     Right

675. 1:57:39

     ... because we now have it, you know, built into the law. I think that there would be assistance, um, that would be offered from the State Charter Schools Commission now that it governs both state charter schools and locally authorized charter schools, so that there is an understanding for what gratuities are now extended to charter schools. So we, we had somewhat of a transition in, in recent years where the Charter Schools Division of the Georgia Department of Education transitioned to, um, the State Charter Schools Commission, and the State Charter Schools Commission has done a really great job of being able to identify, um, the, the understandings of public charter schools, locally and state authorized.

676. 1:58:17

     Um, but I think that would be really the first step, the State Charter Schools Commission with the Office of Charter School Compliance, I believe that's the name of the department, working very closely with local authorized charter schools and the-

677. 1:58:30

     Okay

678. 1:58:30

     ... and local authorizers.

679. 1:58:31

     Let, let me move us along quicker here.

680. 1:58:34

     Sure. Okay.

681. 1:58:34

     Members, I, I want you to go quick with your questions. Let, let me state to you here that, um, we need, and would love, to have my whole team back next year, all of us. Uh, we need to understand what's the difference between a local charter, a state charter, a charter system, a private charter, and it, I'll take it on as my task-

682. 1:58:57

     Okay

683. 1:58:58

     ... to be sure that we get you the information so that when these issues come up, that you know the difference between a local, private, state charters, and, and understand it.

684. 1:59:08

     Great.

685. 1:59:09

     Number 18.

686. 1:59:11

     Thank you, s- we, some of us, we, we do know the difference, but we still have questions. Uh, hey, thank you. Uh, but you said you have four schools.

687. 1:59:19

     Yes, ma'am.

688. 1:59:19

     One is a state charter, so the one that's a state charter absolutely is not eligible for this conversation.

689. 1:59:24

     Yeah.

690. 1:59:24

     The other three, where are they located?

691. 1:59:26

     All three are located in Clayton County.

692. 1:59:28

     So the... Okay, so the schools that are located in Clayton County-

693. 1:59:32

     Yes

694. 1:59:32

     ... in the East SPLOST... Oh, okay. So the question I was gonna ask, are all the students that are at your schools residents of Clayton County?

695. 1:59:40

     For all three schools that we have in Clayton County, all of them are, are residents of Clayton County.

696. 1:59:45

     Thank you.

697. 1:59:46

     Are absolutely. Absolutely.

698. 1:59:49

     Okay.

699. 1:59:52

     Um, okay. Thank you very much, Dr. Miller.

700. 1:59:55

     Thank you so much, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, committee.

701. 1:59:56

     Appreciate-

702. 1:59:57

     Yes

703. 1:59:57

     ... what you do for our children. Um, Ron Mayo, I believe you are up.

704. 2:00:03

     Yes, sir. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. You, you moved your leadoff hitter to cleanup, but I'm gonna try my best to go two for two.

705. 2:00:09

     That's good.

706. 2:00:09

     And I, I would love to, uh, just share with my friends here, the members on the committee, if you would like for us to convene a meeting with any of the school leaders, we would be happy to, to, uh, keep that conversation going and answer some of your good, good questions. Uh, thank the author. We support the bill. We're in favor of a measure that would i- increase facility funding. Uh, the senator rep- mentioned the facility funding gap, and we believe wholeheartedly charter schools, Representative Wade, should be included, uh, while they are currently able to.

707. 2:00:40

     And there are a couple of examples. City of Atlanta and Savannah both have schools that receive East SPLOST funding, but it's not nearly enough. And, uh, we, we, uh, applaud the effort, so thank you.

708. 2:00:51

     Thank you, Mr. Mayo. Um,

709. 2:00:58

     Matt Cardoza, do you want to say anything? Was there a question that you could clarify from the DOE? And, and introduce yourself at the podium, please.

710. 2:01:08

     Sorry. Matt Carters, um, uh, Department of Education. Sorry, I just put a meth in my mouth.

711. 2:01:14

     Just put a meth-

712. 2:01:14

     Um, this is a, the question related to when consolidation happens, who owns the debt, I think it was the...

713. 2:01:22

     Yeah.

714. 2:01:23

     Yeah. So I hate to, uh, potentially defer here to, uh, Mr. Walker, but we've talked about this extensively during some of the, uh, issues in the fall. Um, my understanding is, yes, that the debt would, uh, indeed fall to the, the county school district-

715. 2:01:41

     Okay

716. 2:01:41

     ... if consolidation were voted on.

717. 2:01:43

     Okay. All right. Thank you. Okay, we have exhausted the sign-up sheet here for, uh, HB475. Let's hear the will of the committee.

718. 2:02:05

     Do pass.

719. 2:02:06

     Second.

720. 2:02:08

     Do pass, is that what I heard?

721. 2:02:10

     Yeah, and now with discussion.

722. 2:02:11

     Okay. And then discussion. There we go. We got a do pass. Do we have a second? We have a do pass and a second, and we've got some discussion. Let's start with number three.

723. 2:02:24

     Uh, thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, I guess my, uh, uh, my concern is, is, is related to how do you consider equitable? Because anybody that's been through a SPLOST knows that certain parts of the county will say it's not equitable. And does this give the ability for that charter school to sue the district? Um, and then two, if the school... And this is a question, I guess. It says the district or the school has to own it.

724. 2:02:50

     Mm.

725. 2:02:51

     So what happens if that charter school closes? Where does that building go? Does it go to who... Like, who does that building go to after if they close?

726. 2:03:00

     Yeah, so I don't know the specific answer to what happens when a charter school closes, who technically now owns that building. That'd be a question for Donovan or Matt.

727. 2:03:10

     Yeah. The school system.

728. 2:03:13

     All right, there we go.

729. 2:03:13

     So it goes back to the school system.

730. 2:03:14

     So it goes back to the school system.

731. 2:03:14

     So we're talking school buildings.

732. 2:03:15

     Right. That's right.

733. 2:03:16

     The, okay, so the only concern then really is kind of like-

734. 2:03:18

     That's right

735. 2:03:19

     ... does that give them a, a, a ability to school, sue the school system? Or are they just treated like everybody else, get in the room and make their list?

736. 2:03:26

     I mean, the expectation is that they're now considered. So right now what is happening is school districts are arbitrarily excluding charter schools from even consideration to be put on the list, which then goes to the voters to decide. Okay. Number 28.

737. 2:03:44

     Um, I would like to, uh, propose an amendment. Hopefully it's a friendly amendment.

738. 2:03:50

     Okay. Um, state your amendment.

739. 2:03:54

     Line 64 says that a local school system shall, and then the following words, "Have no obligation to," strike those and change it to "not expend." So have no obligation to becomes not, so shall not expend.

740. 2:04:14

     Does that defeat the whole purpose of the bill?

741. 2:04:20

     I understand. Okay.

742. 2:04:21

     Shall not expend proceeds.

743. 2:04:22

     Shall not expend proceeds of such sales tax for the purchase of improvements owned by an entity other than the local school system or a local charter school.

744. 2:04:35

     Okay, so what I'm seeing on line 64, you're proposing in an amendment, and, uh, Senator Kemp, for your purposes on friendly or not, shall have no obligation is struck out, and in its place you're putting the word not. Is that correct, Senator?

745. 2:04:55

     Yes, sir. If our purpose, and ledge counsel, if the purpose is to restrict the monies going to only the local school system or local charter and not outside. Mr. Walker, would you?

746. 2:05:15

     Yes, I, I would agree if the objective is to prohibit the expenditure of these proceeds. Um, this is a policy call more than a legal interpretation. I would note that on line 65 you are talking about both the purchase and the improvement of, uh, property and facilities. So the, in other words, the school systems would now be prohibited from using SPLOST funds to do anything that might improve-

747. 2:05:43

     Yeah

748. 2:05:43

     ... a school facility. Not only would they not be able to use the funds to purchase, they also would not be able to use funds to do any type of, uh, improvements to that facility.

749. 2:05:52

     That are outside of the local school system or local charter? Is that what we're saying?

750. 2:05:57

     No, these, all of these schools are local charter schools, so they are part of the local school system regardless. The question is, is it possible for a local charter school management company to own their building? That, they're still a local charter school. The, the question really would be then could the, could the local school system also use any SPLOST funds to provide for any kind of improvements to the facilities, including IT, uh, services or safety services that would be considered improvements to the facilities?

751. 2:06:31

     That charter school may still own that building, but the school system might want to use these SPLOST funds to provide for some facility improvements that they are making district-wide. This would prohibit them from doing that.

752. 2:06:43

     Yeah.

753. 2:06:43

     Listen, Senator, were you, was your goals to restrict this? 'Cause that was my earlier question.

754. 2:06:47

     So I just didn't want to obligate them to it. So the, you know, shall have no obligation, that gives the local school districts to make that determination if they want to or not if the building is not owned by the school district or the charter school. But I am okay with making the change if that is going to get us, uh, forward. Uh, but I, uh, to Michael's point, I don't want to totally exclude it, if you're okay with that.

755. 2:07:15

     Well, if there's a better way to word it, I was trying to come up with some language, uh, Mr. Walker, unless you have some better language that would work.

756. 2:07:27

     Let's have a little more discussion.

757. 2:07:28

     And let's have a little more discussion about this amendment, um, number three, or can we do that with you?

758. 2:07:37

     Yeah. Yeah, it's about this amendment. Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I, I think i- if the intent based on the author is what I think it is, the, the no obligation is probably better language because I was thinking the same thing-

759. 2:07:49

     Yeah

760. 2:07:49

     ... that ledge counsel said, that if you wanted to... Say your, whoever is starting a new charter school and is renting, and you want to put in Wi-Fi so the students have access to Wi-Fi, et cetera, you would not be able to do this-

761. 2:08:00

     Right

762. 2:08:00

     ... under this, but I would leave that up to the local district to decide, um, make that decision. Um, yeah.

763. 2:08:09

     Yeah.

764. 2:08:09

     So it's-

765. 2:08:11

     I agree.

766. 2:08:12

     What about the property piece?

767. 2:08:16

     The, the property piece?

768. 2:08:17

     So, s- i- i- so the reason I pause is because I-

769. 2:08:25

     We, uh, we have made the policy decision by the state to allow parents to choose how those dollars are funded. So for example, we use public dollars to buy computers, to buy different things that go to private schools. So I want to make sure that if we have a locally-owned charter school, that they have the same ability to make that decision in their local community. Um, God, I'm arguing this point, but, um- But yeah, I think that that would make more sense to give that local community... I have to get the charter school award of the year or what anyway.

770. 2:08:57

     I'm, no, just kidding. But, but yeah, I, I would say leave the no obligation because doing it that way, I think basically takes away startup charter schools that are trying to move into the facility, if that is the intent-

771. 2:09:08

     Yeah

772. 2:09:08

     ... from a policy perspective.

773. 2:09:10

     Okay. Hold on. Let me, let me handle it this way, 'cause I'm seeing a lot of, lot of questions going here. We've got an amendment. Do we have a second-

774. 2:09:22

     Mm

775. 2:09:24

     ... to this amendment?

776. 2:09:29

     Okay, not hearing a second. Representative, I'd go back and work with that wording you were working with then, and I'm gonna move on. Um-

777. 2:09:38

     Ledge Council, I think, has something maybe.

778. 2:09:44

     Thank you, uh, Mr. Chairman. It, it, to... If I understand the objective, uh, of the earlier amendment, uh, if it is limited to the purchase of property, then you could essentially bifurcate and say there... And I can provide the language, but there would be no obligation to expend proceeds for improvement of property, and the shall not expend proceeds for the purchase of property. So you could set it out separately and achieve both goals, and I would need to fine-tune that a little bit, but that would be an option so that the existing language would apply to improvements of properties and facilities, and the prohibition would apply to the purchase of properties or facilities.

779. 2:10:32

     I believe that's something that I would like to pursue. The question is, do we have time to do that?

780. 2:10:37

     I think so.

781. 2:10:37

     Or is it something we can... I mean, I ask you, Chairman, what route you would like to go?

782. 2:10:44

     Um, let- let's leave this one just sitting where it's at for the moment. Let me check some of these other questions. To be honest with you, members, you know very well we could come back at another meeting.

783. 2:11:00

     No.

784. 2:11:02

     They could bring you back on this issue tomorrow morning. We might do one of those 6:30 in the mornings, uh, if it's that important. Um- So just, just stand by, Representative. I, I'm gonna go around to see, number 29, was it regarding this wording?

785. 2:11:22

     Uh, no, just a separate question, um, but I think it kind of leads to his point. Um, do you know, uh, Senator, if current, if these current facilities are included in the local district's facility plan, like their five-year facility plan, as well as, do you know if all of these schools are also complying with the school safety plans from prior legislation? I just want to make sure.

786. 2:11:44

     So they do have to, you know, meet all obligations in terms of school safety.

787. 2:11:50

     Okay.

788. 2:11:50

     They're not all being included in the-

789. 2:11:54

     Facility plans

790. 2:11:54

     ... facilities plans.

791. 2:11:55

     Okay.

792. 2:11:55

     That's right.

793. 2:11:55

     All right. I, I, I like that conversation-

794. 2:11:58

     Yeah

795. 2:11:58

     ... um, and understanding, and then I'll, I'll just have my one-off questions with you later on.

796. 2:12:03

     Thanks.

797. 2:12:03

     Thanks.

798. 2:12:03

     All right. Number two.

799. 2:12:07

     Thank you, Chair. I, I'd like to make a motion to offer another amendment if possible.

800. 2:12:12

     Let me, let me check one more flashing light, 'cause it's the only one I got on my tree-

801. 2:12:17

     All right

802. 2:12:17

     ... lit up right now, and then I'll come back to you, number two. Number 12.

803. 2:12:21

     Thanks, Mr. Chair. I was just gonna say, I kind of like the language of leaving it up to the s- the school or system itself. I'm involved where if there's definitely, if they're part of that five-year facilities or whatever else, it- it's, it's a... If it's a system charter, I think it just makes it a little bit different. I, I, I like the, the way it's worded myself. That's just my thoughts.

804. 2:12:43

     Okay. Well, what I want to do at this moment then, we're gonna go back and entertain this amendment and see if we can get a second. Do you want to state it another way?

805. 2:12:53

     I, I'm, I'm gonna leave that up to Ledge-

806. 2:12:55

     Uh, Mr. Walker's expertise.

807. 2:12:59

     Okay.

808. 2:13:00

     Um, Mr. Chairman, I would... If this is consistent with the representative's objective, on line 65, we would delete the purchase or.

809. 2:13:15

     And at the end of line 66, after charter school, we would insert, uh, provided further that a local school system shall not expend proceeds of such sales tax for the purchase of property or facilities owned by any entity other than the local school system or a local charter school.

810. 2:13:46

     Yes, that's what I'm asking.

811. 2:13:47

     That's your amendment?

812. 2:13:48

     Yes, sir.

813. 2:13:49

     Mm-hmm. Okay. On those lines, member, members 65 and 66, and then obviously adding a 67, possibly a 68 line there.

814. 2:14:02

     Ledge, we've got-

815. 2:14:03

     We've got an amendment. Do we have a second with, for that language?

816. 2:14:08

     Can, can you repeat the amendment one more time, M- Mr. Walker?

817. 2:14:13

     Okay. On line 65, the words the purchase or would be deleted, and on line 66, after local charter school, we would insert-

818. 2:14:25

     Provided further that a local school system shall not expend proceeds of such sales tax for the purchase of property or facilities owned by any entity other than the local school system or a local charter school. Okay, you've heard the amendment, members. I'm gonna ask if there is a second.

819. 2:14:54

     Hearing none, it'll, that, that amendment will die. Then we'll leave the bill the way it is. Let us see. We had number two, I believe you were gonna amend. Yes, sir. Um, on line 25, I would like to make a motion to strike out 10. I know there was some concern around dropping that, uh, petition requirement too low, and in an attempt to meet the author more or less halfway, like to replace 10 with 20, if, uh, the author is open to it.

820. 2:15:37

     Senator, would you view that on line 25 from 10 to 20 as a friendly amendment? I'd be open to it, and it could be friendly. My only question would be for us now having competing language and what- Tell the governor to send you a second.

821. 2:15:59

     I don't have that much favor with the governor. I don't have a Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I'm with you. All right, Legislative Council? Yeah, just to answer the question, it would be whichever bill the governor signed last- Signed last ... would be the operative language. That's correct. Well, I can't control how he signs, so. No. Yeah. I would rather leave it just to be safe. I'll withdraw the motion. Yeah, I don't want to put you in that conundrum. Okay. He's withdrawn his motion.

822. 2:16:30

     Yeah, yeah, yeah. All right. Seeing no more questions, so we can move along here. Let's get prepared on this one to vote, members. We have Senate Bill 475, which is reading from LC492848s. Okay. All in favor say aye. Aye. All opposed, light sign. Aye. We're gonna do a count.

823. 2:17:02

     It was close, but I- ... I can see the ayes have it again, but we all said aye. All right. All in favor, raise your right hand.

824. 2:17:16

     11. All opposed, raise your right hand.

825. 2:17:24

     Five. Okay, it carries. Your bill carries. Who is gonna, uh, carry this for you in the House, Senator? Your esteemed vice chairman. Okay, Representative Rice. She's getting a workload for her- ... set up for this week. Fantastic. Good job. All right. Thank y'all. Be sure to get your rule sheets signed. Appreciate you. Thank you. Okay, we're gonna keep going and try, members, is move quickly if we can and, and get into that higher gear. Um, there we go. We got Beth Camp, uh, Representative Camp come out here.

826. 2:17:57

     Chairwoman Camp and Persinger. Let's see. We've got Senate Bill 431. I know y'all have been through some changes. If you would, I think we had to make a copy to put before you, members, for this one. Read your LC number you're working from, Chairwoman. All right. Thank you so much. I've got LC492837s. Great. Perfect. Mic's yours. Wonderful. Thank you so much. Um, this bill came to fruition from a study committee, which, um, Chair Kay Kirkpatrick had last year.

827. 2:18:33

     Uh, one thing that came to light was there was challenges in some districts not enrolling students based on federal law, um, ESSA, um, Ensuring Educational Stability and Success for Children in Foster Care. Um, and so I, I'm, uh, very appreciative to rep- to Senator Kirkpatrick and to Representative Persinger. We've worked together on this to establish some definitions, not to be contrary to the school safety bill, but to be an accompaniment to the school safety bill.

828. 2:19:05

     So, um, the first part of the bill goes through a litany of definitions, um, I, including charter schools, um, is on there actually, and, and then it kind of talks about the def- definition of a school day and a school business day. And I think it's important on line 42, a school business day includes, but is not limited to, school days. It means any day except Saturday, Sunday, and a legal holiday. So in doing further research on this, um, in this document, Ensuring Educational Stability and Success for Foster Children, which is put out through the Department of- federal Department of Education and the Department of Health and Human Services, on page 26, and I'm happy to give any member of the committee a copy of this, or you're welcome to look at this, it clearly states that, um, immediate, which is what it says a foster child's to be enrolled in school, immediate means process, um, indicates that a student in foster care's best interest in changing schools, the student should be enrolled as soon as practically possible, i.e., within three business days.

829. 2:20:12

     So this actually aligns with all of our information that we had in the school safety bill. Also here it's ensuring that these children who are in foster care are enrolled within the three-

830. 2:20:25

     school business days. Um, also it defines in section three the documents which could be requested and the educational documents on line 82, 83, and 84, um, relating to FERPA. So there will not be extraneous documents required that are not congruent with, um, with what it takes to enroll a child in foster care. Um, and then it gives the provisions in the next section, um, line 111 through 120, on what happens if a child is not enrolled, what, what steps do you take?

831. 2:20:57

     And it goes to the RESA resource officer, and each RESA has to prepare a quarterly and an annual report, or a quarterly report and then the Department of Education does an annual report, which will be delivered to the lieutenant governor, speaker of the house, and chairpersons of the education committee in the House and the Senate to ensure that we know that they are following through with what's required. Um, and then lastly in the bill, um, we did add a piece in subcommittee, um, about the EPSE, um, the scholarship for those who, um, are disabled, to be able to use that scholarship in a private, um, school within the State of Georgia if that particular school had the program and the resources they need to move forward.

832. 2:21:46

     And that's the gist of the bill. Mr. Chairman, I'm open for any questions from the committee.

833. 2:21:52

     Great, Chairwoman. Thank you, and thank you for picking this up. I know this is at least the second time in front of us you've been discussing this, and, uh, digging into the federal regulations and making this bill better. Number 14.

834. 2:22:10

     Thank you so much for bringing the bill at the proper time. I move to do pass.

835. 2:22:15

     Number 24.

836. 2:22:17

     I was about to say the same thing.

837. 2:22:18

     Same thing. Number three.

838. 2:22:20

     I just, uh, just want to thank you for adding the language about the members of the committee getting the, the, the, the reports. Thank you.

839. 2:22:27

     Thank you.

840. 2:22:27

     Great. Seeing no more questions, number 14.

841. 2:22:33

     Uh-oh. We'd like to, uh, have a do pass for, uh, 430- SB431.

842. 2:22:41

     Second.

843. 2:22:41

     And we have a, a motion and a second for SB431, which is LC492837S now, the one we had to go make copies of, members. So that's what we're voting for at this time. All in favor say aye.

844. 2:22:59

     Aye.

845. 2:22:59

     All opposed like sign. There you go. You got it.

846. 2:23:04

     Thank you.

847. 2:23:04

     And I'm sure you're carrying it. She's already told us, so thank you, Chairwoman.

848. 2:23:08

     I am. Thank you so much.

849. 2:23:09

     All right, members, you've got down to the last one here, and I apologize to Senator Dickerson. We have, have, uh, we've worked you over a couple of times this committee, and

850. 2:23:24

     let's hope our members are tired, but not angry.

851. 2:23:28

     Angry.

852. 2:23:29

     They're hangry, that's right. Senate Bill 513, which has gone through some changes. If you would, on 513, read your, uh, LC number, and Senator, we'll turn the microphone over to you.

853. 2:23:44

     Okay, thank you, Mr., uh, Mr. Chairman, members of the committee, um, for being here today and allowing me to come present this bill. Uh, we're looking at Senate Bill 513. The LC number that I currently have is 492845 S's and Sam. Um, I just want to verify that that is the correct one-

854. 2:24:02

     No, no

855. 2:24:02

     ... we're working off of.

856. 2:24:03

     No.

857. 2:24:04

     Okay.

858. 2:24:04

     Here we go again.

859. 2:24:05

     Hold on. There's two 513s in our folder.

860. 2:24:07

     Oh.

861. 2:24:10

     Mr. Chairman.

862. 2:24:12

     Standby, members, while we get...

863. 2:24:25

     I had two 513s.

864. 2:24:36

     Ma'am?

865. 2:24:38

     Uh, 492845 S's and Sam. Now, there was another one circulating this morning, but I don't have a copy of that one.

866. 2:24:46

     Leave the Sam.

867. 2:24:47

     Yes, we have the 49.

868. 2:24:55

     I've got 492845 S.

869. 2:24:59

     Let me show you what that is.

870. 2:25:01

     Yeah. Um, I called your office earlier- Okay ... to make sure you were aware and fine with that. Okay. Um, are you aware? Um, we heard it was floating around, but haven't seen all of it, so, okay. This morning. Okay, give me one... Chair, if you'll give me just one minute to look over this, uh, if you would, please, sir. Thank you.

871. 2:25:26

     Set this down. Okay.

872. 2:25:30

     The antagonist of that is- Okay ... just the S and SB. Okay. Yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm good.

873. 2:25:38

     Okay.

874. 2:25:39

     Mr. Chair, uh, I'm ready whenever you are. Yes, sir.

875. 2:25:43

     Uh-

876. 2:25:43

     Yeah, I'm not sure. Well, so, um, I would prefer not. Um, based upon the committee meeting we had last week and on the information we got back from our committee members here in this committee, uh, we, um, in LC492845S, we incorporated all four of the, uh, requested changes from last week. Uh, but from quickly looking at LC610498S, none of those changes were implemented. So-

877. 2:26:10

     Okay, let's leave it at-

878. 2:26:10

     So I will leave it up to the committee

879. 2:26:11

     ... let's go to the one that you just corrected after our subcommittee meeting-

880. 2:26:17

     Okay

881. 2:26:17

     ... which was the first number, members. Hold on one sec.

882. 2:26:20

     Okay.

883. 2:26:20

     We're gonna go back to the one that was corrected.

884. 2:26:23

     Okay.

885. 2:26:24

     And that was LC492845S. Does everyone have that one before?

886. 2:26:32

     No. But I'll, I'll, I'll share with them because I care.

887. 2:26:39

     On this side of the room, do we have 2845S?

888. 2:26:44

     Yeah, so we didn't make that recommendation-

889. 2:26:46

     No.

890. 2:26:47

     Request.

891. 2:26:48

     Yeah, that's the one I got.

892. 2:26:50

     Yeah. So that's why they were floating, so it's, um, I'll leave it at the will of the committee, whatever you want to do. I just want to make you aware that none of the requested change from this committee is on LC610498S. But we'll work off whichever version the committee wants to work off of.

893. 2:27:06

     Uh, you know, members, I know you're gonna have to take a deep breath. Let's make copies of LC492845S, which was your original corrected sub-

894. 2:27:16

     That is correct, Mr. Chairman

895. 2:27:18

     ... from your work with this guy, or with this senator, excuse me, and, uh-

896. 2:27:23

     Mr. Chairman

897. 2:27:24

     ... we will ask you to discard the 610498S for the time being. We're gonna go to this one. LaShawn, if you would, would you make the copies? That, that one you don't want to make copies of. I have notes in here. She's got notes. She's trying to find the right recommendation. Just stand by, members-

898. 2:27:47

     Yep. Mm-hmm

899. 2:27:47

     ... while we run a quick few copies.

900. 2:27:51

     I do not.

901. 2:27:51

     Okay.

902. 2:27:52

     I, I do not. I'm sorry about that.

903. 2:27:53

     All good. A lot of six sevens.

904. 2:27:59

     Stop it. We don't say that anymore.

905. 2:28:04

     It's

906. 2:28:09

     not political?

907. 2:28:12

     It has been already.

908. 2:28:18

     Uh, yes. Yeah. Yeah, so we made the co-curricular changes that you guys requested. We made the, uh, Department of Education and the DMV change. Uh, we changed the date, and we changed, uh, the definition of extracurricular activities, interscholastic activities. Um, and then we changed the way that that process works as f- Sorry.

909. 2:29:16

     Whoa, whoa, whoa. She wasn't here. What? So I, I looked at the office, I was like, "You guys need to sit back down." The thing is, she's helping me. She's helping me. Well- I know, but she's helping me. I mean, you probably shouldn't, but it's whatever. Point that up here. Which one? Miriam. Miriam is. I defer to the knowledge of others. Hey, Shane, look. Oh, yeah. Right now. I'm told. Mm, did they take out that weird one?

910. 2:29:47

     It's already been, it's already been- Yeah. It's already been

911. 2:40:01

     All right. Senator, if you'd come back. Members, if you'd come back. Luckily, we still have a quorum. Let's continue the meeting.

912. 2:40:14

     Thank you.

913. 2:40:21

     Members, if you would come on back and have a seat. Let's see if we can now go over, Senator, did, have we given you a copy there too?

914. 2:40:31

     Yes, sir. Chairman, thank you.

915. 2:40:33

     It is 513, Senate Bill 513. I'm gonna ask you to read your LC number again.

916. 2:40:41

     I will, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Senate Bill 513, LC492845S.

917. 2:40:48

     That's correct. We are good. Go ahead, Senator.

918. 2:40:51

     Mr. Chairman, I'll go ahead and provide the committee with a quick summary again, even though we did it, um, last week. Uh, this is known as the Everyday Counts Act. Uh, the Everyday Counts Act seeks to provide, uh, K through 12 public school students who are chronically absent for unexcused reasons with multi-tiered support systems and personalized attendance intervention plans. This legislation requires that every local school district has at least one attendance review team. Uh, individual schools with chronic absenteeism rates of 15% or more must also have an attendance review team.

919. 2:41:22

     This legislation makes chronically absent students ineligible to participate in extracurricular and interscholastic activities. Students ages 15 to 17 who are non-compliant with their attendance intervention plan may be prevented from obtaining a driver's license or permit. And this legislation, just to reiterate, this legislation does not suspend active driver's licenses or permits. Now, in our meeting last week, uh, we had three or four, uh, comments that came up, and we took those, uh, back to legislative council this weekend.

920. 2:41:52

     We incorporated all those changes. Um, and I'll kind of work through a couple of those. Um, just, and then we'll go by the line n- line items, and we'll answer any questions the committee may have. Uh, we further defined extracurricular activities. We removed the examples that people spoke about. Uh, so now, um, we define extracurricular activity as, uh, public school-sponsored activities in which students take part in on a voluntary basis, which do not offer or provide school or course credits, which are generally conducted outside school, regular school hours or- If conducted in whole or in part during regular school hours, at times agreed to by the participants and approved by a school official, and which are managed and operated under the guidance of a teacher, other school employee, or other adult approved by a school official.

921. 2:42:40

     Such term shall include any activity designated by the local school system or public school as a co-curricular activity. That was by request of the committee last week. We further defined interscholastic activity to mean extracurricular activities, public school-sponsored athletic programs, and other public school-sponsored programs are sanctioned or supported, uh, by statewide interscholastic activities governing body, including but not limited to an athletic association. We further, um, the committee requested for the, uh, state board of education to provide some model guidance, which we included that as well.

922. 2:43:15

     So by two, um, by Jan- uh, July the 1st, 2027, the state board of education shall approve model policies and guidance materials to assist local school systems and public schools with establishing policies and procedures that meet the requirements of su- subsection B of this code section. Such guidance material shall address common scenarios and frequently asked questions for attendance review teams. We also further clarified, uh, the process of how the, this information gets shared to Department of Driver Services.

923. 2:43:47

     Um, as most of you are aware, there's a, um, there's a current DDS-1 form, uh, that's a notarized certificate of school enrollment that, uh, each child when they go to get their permit or driver's license has to be no- um, notarized by the school itself. So we, um, we worked with, um, this language to say instead of, uh, going the previous way that was gonna go from, that the, um, unexcused absence would go from the school district up to the, uh, Department of Education back down to the Department of Driver Services.

924. 2:44:17

     Uh, now, since the schools will have this information, we're gonna add some additional language, uh, on the certificate of school enrollment, the DDS-1 form, that they are, that the, uh, school currently fills out, and then the student then can take that to the Department of Driver Services just as they have done so in the past. And then the final, um, adjustment that we made is that we make this act effective July the 1st, 2027, by recommendation of this committee. Mr. Chairman, I'll be, uh, open to any questions that any members may have.

925. 2:44:44

     Mm-hmm. Senator, thank you, uh, for working on trying to help the chronic absenteeism at schools here. Let me state, members that were not part of the subcommittee, uh, senator worked very well with the subcommittee group, and then going back to DMV and a few other groups to, uh, further perfect his bill. Let me, uh, start with 21. You were flashing first.

926. 2:45:15

     Um, I want to say thank you for your work, you know, since the subcommittee that you've worked on this, and at the appropriate time.

927. 2:45:21

     Number 14.

928. 2:45:23

     I'm sorry that, um, I'm gonna ask this question. It may be redundant, but I wasn't, I'm not that familiar with this bill. Um, are there any unintended consequences that you might see, especially with, um, dropouts who we're trying to get to drop back in and be a part of, um, some of these completion high schools? Do you see that affecting them negatively?

929. 2:45:51

     Uh, thank you for the question. Um, personally, we, we do not. We've looked at a lot of information. Uh, you know, when whenever the Senate did a study committee on chronic absenteeism in our schools, there was about 14 or 15 different metrics. They looked at different possibilities. Uh, we knew that, um, there was no way we could implement all 14 or 15 of those. We pulled out the top three or four that we felt like would be the most beneficial. Uh, we also know that this is not a silver bullet. Uh, it's not gonna correct any, uh, you know, every and all issues it may have out there. Uh, but we also know that by, um, making this, uh, putting this, um, voting on this and getting this through the legislature now, it basically gives, uh, you know, a good period of time, uh, almost, uh, about 15 months for the schools to look at it and see what they need to do, uh, to c- continue to work through this process if they have any guidance that comes up with it.

930. 2:46:38

     So we also know that whenever we did the study committee, we, it was very apparent that every school district, every school itself, and every county is different on the requirements of what they need. And so that's why instead of taking a heavy hand from the, the state standpoint, we want to push a lot of this down to local legislation, local schools, and let them kind of make some of those determinations. So, um, if, uh, to answer your question, uh, I, I think realistically it comes down to the individual schools themselves, and if we get some feedback, uh, we can always adjust this in the future.

931. 2:47:09

     But we don't anticipate any, um, undue consequences at this particular, this particular point in time with the legislation that we have in this current bill.

932. 2:47:17

     Mm. Could I ask a follow-up question?

933. 2:47:19

     Yes, ma'am.

934. 2:47:20

     Um, did you guys consider the c- um, completion high schools that were just voted in, um, that we're building out? Those students usually have had chronic absences, and they are moving into those new spaces to try to come back and finish high school. They may wanna, we're making a, a space for them to even come back and play a sport, um, at their home school, um, while they're in a completion school.

935. 2:47:52

     So I'm wondering if that then flies in the face of those students who may have to come to school at, at, at night, who have jobs, who need transportation to get there. I'm wondering if that group of students would be adversely affected by this. Did we strongly consider them? It doesn't sound like it, and therefore I'm concerned about this including that one target group, that we're trying to target them to come back to school.

936. 2:48:27

     Okay. Yeah, uh, thank you for the question. I think it's a great question. Um, you know, we, we've researched and thought about it. One of the reasons that we thought about pushing this, uh, effective date out to July the 1st was for any of those type issues. Um, a- and I think, a- and I said this previously, and I really think it's, um, while we did consider some of that, we think it's gonna be a, a very small percentage of the population this may particularly affect. Uh, and at the same time, the, it's up to the schools themselves to determine what is unexcused absence and what's just an absence.

937. 2:48:58

     Uh, so, you know, if we have some of those situations, it would be, uh, the school's determination, uh, if they wanted to mark these as unexcused. Uh, so we, while I understand, uh, you know, what, um, uh, the point of the question kinda working through that process, I just don't think, basically what we've seen a- and the study committee that we've worked through, that we're, it's really gonna affect that, uh, amount of the population. It's gonna be a pretty, pretty small mandate in all aspects. Thank you, ma'am.

938. 2:49:24

     Number 15.

939. 2:49:26

     Well.

940. 2:49:27

     Number 15, Representative Paris.

941. 2:49:29

     Thank you, Chairman. Thank you. Um, Senator, I, I, I don't like your bill. I think it's too punitive. I think it's not taking into consideration some of the vast reasons why children are missing school. You know, back when I was a kid, wasn't as tough as it is now.

942. 2:49:51

     Mm-hmm.

943. 2:49:51

     Right? So children were missing school because they were just shooting the hooky. But today, there are socioeconomic problems that children are facing that they are not responsible for.

944. 2:50:03

     Mm-hmm.

945. 2:50:04

     And if we're going to just lump everybody into this one big basket that, "Oh, you're chronically missing school, um, so therefore you can't play sports, you can't do this, you can't do that," I'm like, "Are we the politicians of no?" Or, or I, I don't understand where the heart of all of this is coming from. That, that's my question to you, please.

946. 2:50:32

     Yeah. Uh, yes, ma'am. I'll, um... Thank you for that question. So one of the reasons that, that we pushed it down to local legislations, we know that every school is different, the requirements. What, what's in Dooley County, the requirements there, and the, uh, the demographics are much different than what's in Cherokee County, and so really it comes down to each school. And, uh, and to be clear, uh, I know we spoke about the other day, um, is it's up to the school to come up with the, um, work through that intervention plan. And, and it takes the student and the parent in consideration.

947. 2:51:02

     They have to come in and sign off on the form. So whenever, whenever they deem a student is chronically unexcused, um, what happens is then the school would, would request, uh, the student and the parent to come in where they could evaluate that process. Um, if they, if the, right off the bat, the student is not penalized from that standpoint. Uh, the penalty ones are coming in if they don't come in a- and at least hear the intervention plan and sign off on it. Um, and then there would be a, a, again, this is a multi-tiered approach. So then the second tier would be if they came in and they, um, and they signed off on the intervention plan, but they didn't follow it at all.

948. 2:51:39

     So the, the thought of this bill is not to be, um, is to penalize them right off the bat. That, that's not the, the plan at all. But at the same time, we also know that, uh, you know, the, the current absenteeism rate in the state of Georgia statewide is 19.5%. It's over double what it was before COVID. We've tried a lot of different measures since then, it's been six years, to get that rate back down, and it really hasn't come down back to, back to where it was pre-COVID. Um, and with that, we, we also know that when we're looking at a lot of these students, you know, these are our future educators, legislators, doctors, lawyers, um, you know, leaders of the free world.

949. 2:52:14

     And so at the end of the day, you can't learn if you're, if you're not in school. And so we have to, while in all aspects, I'm always more of a carrot person than a stick person, but also know that we've been working on this for six years to try to lower that, that absenteeism rate, and it just hasn't gotten down below where it was pre-COVID. So for me, I'm trying to look out for the students of the state and to make sure that they get the proper education and time and materials that they, that they need to do to be successful in life.

950. 2:52:40

     We're gonna keep working around the room. Number 12.

951. 2:52:44

     Thanks, Mr. Chairman. Uh, Senator, thanks for this bill. I just want to say thanks for the changes. I think you made some good changes over the weekend. Uh, I, I do like the flexibility for the different school systems 'cause you may have different thoughts throughout. But still, it, what I've read in there, it looks like you do give some, especially for the teams that are convened, uh, some options for them, and so that's where I think you can state your case for them to be a little more active if they make an agreement or sign another contract or something like that. So I, I do like the flexibility.

952. 2:53:14

     Thank you.

953. 2:53:15

     Okay. Thank you, sir.

954. 2:53:16

     All right. Number three.

955. 2:53:18

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Um, what is the penalty for driving without a driver's license?

956. 2:53:23

     You know what? It's been a long time, and I have no clue.

957. 2:53:27

     Okay. I mean, because I guess they can't get a driver's license if they are chronically absent and not on a plan, right? Is that the intent?

958. 2:53:35

     Well, it, what it would do is it would, uh, temporarily suspend their availability to do that.

959. 2:53:40

     Okay. Okay. Do you think, and this is just a question, do you think they're gonna stop driving if they're not in school? Are they gonna... I mean, are they g- is this gonna stop them from driving, or is this gonna make them go to school?

960. 2:53:53

     Oh, well, okay. So let's, so, uh, I'm assuming your question, and let me clarify this, um, are we talking about a student that currently has a driver's license or one that does not have one yet?

961. 2:54:03

     A student, let's say a student that doesn't have one yet.

962. 2:54:06

     Okay.

963. 2:54:07

     So they, they are about to get their license. They're whatever age.

964. 2:54:10

     Okay.

965. 2:54:10

     Are they going to not drive, or are they going to drive even with this bill? Because if they're not going to school, we've tried everything. Is this going to keep them off the road, or are we just gonna make it so that students that are not in school are now meeting with law enforcement because they're doing something illegal because they, they weren't at school in the first place? Is this gonna spiral them out of the, out of the way?

966. 2:54:30

     Um, well, and great question. From that standpoint is it does allow us to continue to get some data, uh, over the n- you know, again, we've said before, this, this bill is not a silver bullet. This is, if we enact this bill, it's not gonna take absenteeism down to zero W- w- we know that. W- that's not gonna happen. But what we've looked at is over the years is the various approaches we can take in implementing one thing here and one thing there to try to, again, continue to kind of get that process down. Um, and so I, again, I will, um, I, I would recommend to, to go ahead and wait and let's just see what the data shows us over the next, you know, 12 to 18 months and kind of go from there.

967. 2:55:06

     And if we need to make some changes, nothing says we can't come back in, in 27 or 28 or 29 and make some additional changes to this. This is the real flexibility.

968. 2:55:14

     Last question, I'm sorry. What has been shown to improve absentee rates?

969. 2:55:19

     Well, so the, the most effective ones that we have that based upon the Senate Study Committee were the three or four that we implemented here. That, that's from what we saw. Um, th- there's a lot of other ones that, that you can look at. Um, but again, these are all, uh, singular issues we can look at. And every, e- every situation is different for every single child from that standpoint. And what may, uh, a plan or a situation, or like, let's talk about the driver's license. That may help, call it 21% of the students out there that are chronically absent.

970. 2:55:50

     Is it gonna help, is it gonna make every single student that's chronically absent go back to, to school? Probably not.

971. 2:55:55

     But it's gonna send 80% to jail.

972. 2:55:58

     Oh, well, that's their own personal choice. I mean, if we're talking about that they don't have a license yet, then I'm not really sure how they'll be driving without a license if they didn't have one to start with.

973. 2:56:07

     Let's go to number 26.

974. 2:56:11

     Thank you, Mr. Chairman, and thank you, Senator, um, for making all of the changes that we asked you to make. Um, is it, is it fair to say with the multi-tier framework that's on page four, um, that the intent of this bill is to grab up these kids and their parents and get them the services they need to help them get to school before any punitive measures, um, go into effect?

975. 2:56:41

     That is correct.

976. 2:56:41

     Okay. Thank you.

977. 2:56:43

     Number 16.

978. 2:56:48

     Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thank you. Thank you, Senator. I can almost see you.

979. 2:56:52

     Oh.

980. 2:56:52

     Um, I'm looking at lines, um, 102, 103. Um, I don't know when, and y- you'll have to educate me, when in the school year are absentee rates decided? Like, i- is it after a school year has passed and you say, "Okay, for the past school year you had an absentee rate of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah." When are, when is that actually-

981. 2:57:15

     Let's see

982. 2:57:15

     ... what point in time is that decided?

983. 2:57:17

     Yeah, if you will, if I will direct, um, the representative's, uh, attention to line, uh, 46, 47, 48, 49, and 50.

984. 2:57:26

     Okay.

985. 2:57:26

     Uh, that's when it will stipulate of, of when that... I- it's a, it's a rolling snapshot of time. It's not one specific date.

986. 2:57:33

     Okay. Okay, gotcha. But if the whole school system has a, or the whole school has a chronic absenteeism rate of 15% or higher, so that would be determined by that, you know, five absences after 50 days, if 15% of their student body at that 50 day into the school?

987. 2:57:53

     Yeah, well, yes, ma'am. Um, the, the thought behin- behind this legislation and the, and the spirit of it would be that would be just a rolling number as throughout the school year.

988. 2:58:02

     Okay.

989. 2:58:02

     Um, that they, the schools would... And it would really kind of be up to their choice. Uh, we would recommend every week, no, um, no less than once per month to look at that rolling average for their particular school and make that determination.

990. 2:58:13

     And a, a follow-up, if I may. The, at what point do they roll off of it? Like at, like if for a couple weeks they get better, do they, do they disband the review team? Or at, at what point do they, at what point have they hit the mark?

991. 2:58:29

     Yeah. Understood, and I think that's a valid question. From my understanding, a- and the way that we drafted it, was that they could, um, roll off at any particular point in time once they get under that 15%.

992. 2:58:39

     Okay, so, uh, no like, "Hey, you have to hit this mark for X many weeks or months."

993. 2:58:43

     That, that's right.

994. 2:58:44

     Okay.

995. 2:58:44

     That, that's not, um, that's not exactly the thought process of how we drafted it. Um, again, we kind of leave it up to each school itself. Uh, and I would a- assume based upon just, uh, my past work history, you know, if you're at 15.1% today, you're not gonna drop to 14.5 tomorrow.

996. 2:59:01

     Right, right.

997. 2:59:01

     I mean, it, there's, there's gonna be a period of time-

998. 2:59:03

     It's gonna take some time

999. 2:59:03

     ... because of the number of students that are there, the average you're looking at, it's just gonna take a little bit to kind of, you know, move and turn that ship around.

1000. 2:59:09

      Right.

1001. 2:59:10

      Yep.

1002. 2:59:10

      Thank you.

1003. 2:59:11

      Number 25.

1004. 2:59:14

      At the appropriate time, sir.

1005. 2:59:16

      Number 14.

1006. 2:59:17

      Thank you.

1007. 2:59:19

      I'd like to make a friendly amendment. I, I just don't see where we have made, um, provision to help our students that have already been out of the school system and are coming back into our completion high schools, um, and making sure that we don't, um, cause more problems for them as they probably work now, um, and need a driver's license. And I don't see where we made any provisions for even students who might have chronic illnesses.

1008. 2:59:57

      Um, so I'm, I'm not sure, but I certainly wanna make sure we protect those students that we've just made a way to come back to school given completion schools all around the state, um, and I don't want them to be affected by not being able to drive, go to work, and be online to go to school.

1009. 3:00:19

      Be, be thinking that. If we get a motion and a second, we can discuss an amendment. Number 22.

1010. 3:00:25

      Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, yeah, I wanna ask you kind of a friendly question to sort of tease out, what I'm, what I'm hearing are some concerns here, uh, and, and potentially valid concerns. You know, students nowadays are under a lot of different stress and pressure than maybe we were when we were kids, some having to work to not only support themselves, but maybe even work to support their families. And so the concern is, um, if you, their, their license is on hold or they're not able to access, as I say, they don't have a license, they can't get a license to drive to work and all that stuff, um- I, I guess what do you, what do you say to that concern?

1011. 3:00:59

      Or j- just maybe address that more directly.

1012. 3:01:02

      Yeah, you know, so the, the reason and, and the way that we have it drafted is a lot of these decisions come down to the school district or sc- school system itself. And that was one of the main reasons that we wanted to make sure that it wasn't just a student, and it wasn't just the, the, the school itself. We wanted to make sure that the parent was involved, because every child's home life is different from, from one house to another. And so it really comes down to the school itself. There is no hard and fast rules on this basically saying, "Hey, every time they're out, it's gonna be unexcused." That, that's not the case. The, the point of the, the, uh, attendance intervention plan is to make it a personalized plan.

1013. 3:01:34

      This is not one cookie cutter plan that fits every student and every home situation. So whenever they come to the school, that's why we've, in the language we drafted to say that we want the parent present and we want the, the, uh, student present as well with the, the intervention team to where they can kinda hash out these details and really kinda find out why, why aren't they, why haven't they been absent? Is it because, um, that they've been overly sick? Is maybe it's because they're trying to, um, they've gotta work a, a part-time job to help support their family. And all those things are taken into consideration. So again-

1014. 3:02:05

      So as, as long as them, the student and their parent are involved in that process, none of the other punitive stuff kicks in, right? Like, they don't have to-

1015. 3:02:14

      That, that would be correct

1016. 3:02:15

      ... they don't have to solve the absenteeism. They simply... It's, it's a very low permissive threshold. They just have to engage, just engage with the sc- You know, all we're asking is work with the school.

1017. 3:02:26

      And that's right. And the way that we have it drafted in here again is, um, is they just have to come sit with the school and go through that attendance intervention plan. Nothing says that they have to immediately b- go from, like, be chronically unexcused to, um, you know, to not being unexcused. I mean, again, every, every student's home life is different. We understand that. And, you know, um, one of the things I, I could not even imagine, I, I s- I see a lot of my nephews and nieces and everything, uh, that are in grade school nowadays, and ele- and, um, and middle school. You know, what they face nowadays is unlike anything that I had to deal with when I was in high school, I'll be honest with you, even middle school.

1018. 3:03:01

      So, you know, we wanna make sure that all those factors are taken into consideration. And that's why, again, we didn't wanna play just a heavy hand from the state level and say, "This a requirement, this the rules, and if you're X, then Y is gonna be the punishment."

1019. 3:03:15

      Yeah, and-

1020. 3:03:15

      We, we want it to be down to every school system and school district itself to make that determination.

1021. 3:03:19

      We always say we can't legislate good parenting, but in some respects, we're just asking parents to do the minimum amount to be engaged.

1022. 3:03:25

      To, to be involved. And, and we know that, you know, s- in order for anybody to be successful, specifically students, uh, at those, um, elementary and middle school ages specifically, is, you know, that we want the, the parents to be involved in the process. We want them to be an integral part o- of their, their child's life and, and to help them through the educational process. So I think it would be unfair, uh, to say, "Hey, it's just a student and, and the, um, and the school itself have these discussions." Uh, that's why we've particularly dr- drafted the language that s- said the student and the parent needed to be there to where the school can get the full understanding and scope of what was going on.

1023. 3:04:00

      Okay, board or members, at this late hour, I'm gonna call the question. What is the will of this-

1024. 3:04:09

      Move that

1025. 3:04:10

      ... committee? Number 25.

1026. 3:04:12

      Mr. Chairman, I make a motion do pass of SB 513 LC492845S.

1027. 3:04:19

      We've got a motion and a second. Number 14.

1028. 3:04:23

      I'd like to make a friendly amendment that it does not, that we exclude the students from, uh, the completion high school. We know they have to drive to school. They don't have buses and all of that. So I would like to not, um, put any unintended consequences on these students. Yeah.

1029. 3:04:56

      Let's state that one more time for the members.

1030. 3:04:59

      So I'd like to exclude, uh, the students who are in the completion high schools that we have already, um, put into law, and allowing those students, um, not to have this as a part of, of their, um... They already have enough on them to try to get to school and get back into school and to fi- finish. So...

1031. 3:05:24

      So I am, uh... Thank you for the question, uh, committee. I am slightly unfamiliar with the exact process and, of, of how the completion schools work. So I would, since this is your area of expertise, I would defer that to maybe part of the committee itself.

1032. 3:05:39

      Yes. Let us have some discussion with you. I'll add to that in a minute. So stand by on this amendment. We've got a... Let, let me, uh, let me... We got a second. Let me go to what I saw on number 12.

1033. 3:05:54

      Thanks, Mr. Chair. You may know better than I do. I, I, I don't think the amendment would hurt because I think they're gonna have attendance contracts there anyway at the school, and most of them usually don't go at 16, they'll go at 17 or 18. I don't think it's gonna be, it's gonna hurt the bill at all if that was on there. I'm not sure if it's really gonna help or do what you're thinking it might do either, Representative.

1034. 3:06:14

      Uh-

1035. 3:06:14

      I just don't think... I, I think that's gonna be kind of a moot point just based on what, what's happening now at the completion schools.

1036. 3:06:22

      Number three.

1037. 3:06:23

      Thank you, Mr. Chairman. Uh, I believe if you are at a current school and you have that intervention plan, that, a- and then you move to an attendance, like a completion school, will that automatically transfer? I think that's the concern, is that we have said that our primary goal is to make sure kids can graduate, and I think anything that puts in s- that in the way could be a potential issue. So I think it makes sense to have that amendment.

1038. 3:06:49

      Okay, number 29.

1039. 3:06:51

      Thank you, Chairman. I think just, uh, clarity for the sponsor. I, I typically think that what we've done on completion schools and not- To be a Hilton over here in brown-nose, but Chairman Erwin has led on that issue. I'm tired. I know y'all are. But that's actually one response to absenteeism for those students that have the compelling reasons in their family household where they're the breadwinners or they're contributing to that family. I think it's a fair request to consider. Um, so I, I, I don't know the language, but I think it's actually not a, a terrible policy idea.

1040. 3:07:26

      I think what I've heard, is this true in your belief, that you're not just worried about absenteeism in high schools, you're actually more worried about it at elementary and middle schools, and that the vast majority of the kids that we're seeing with these chronic la- absenteeism is more at earlier ages. Is that true?

1041. 3:07:43

      That is true.

1042. 3:07:44

      Okay. Thank you.

1043. 3:07:49

      Okay, members, uh, in the light of a late hour, we could discuss this part on completion schools for quite some time. You are excluding one group of, of students that attend a- another option for kids that are, um, needing another option to be able to complete their course of study, and I understand your reasoning why. I'll entertain one more, number 18, year flash.

1044. 3:08:20

      Oh, thank you. I, I think in the line of this thought that we're having, that if the clock restarts with the students, uh, that are going to a completion school, maybe that helps us get there. The attendance clock restarts.

1045. 3:08:39

      Okay. Um, we, we could get way into the weeds of what an MOU is- ... way into it for how those students go there, what school they are coming from that holds the accountability for that child. So, um, it is not real clear cut.

1046. 3:09:03

      Yeah, I would agree.

1047. 3:09:03

      Um-

1048. 3:09:04

      I would agree with you on that

1049. 3:09:04

      ... is, is what I would say. However, you sure, even in one child, not wanna hold them back from getting their schooling 'cause they could not drive to the completion school. So, um, if the wording was correct and we could allow the schools to, um, say, "Hey, if this is your option, we're not going to hold your license back for a chronic absenteeism.

1050. 3:09:35

      We're gonna let you drive to the completion school and go get your license."

1051. 3:09:39

      Okay.

1052. 3:09:40

      Now, remember the kid that is going to get their license in most cases are 16 years old, maybe 17, not 14, 13, 12.

1053. 3:09:52

      Yeah.

1054. 3:09:52

      The kids going to the completion schools are 16, 17, 18. Most of those are gonna have their license already. So again, we're talking about a small population.

1055. 3:10:04

      Right.

1056. 3:10:04

      Michael, do you wanna propose some- or excuse me, uh, legislative counsel?

1057. 3:10:10

      Um, I, first, I should... I think it's appropriate to distinguish that we do have two categories of students who attend completion special schools. There are the students who are enrolled students, and there are the students who we call program students who remain enrolled in their resident school system. The language that I have proposed contemplates the enrolled students. This may not be the policy objection- objective, but it- if you wanted to provide for completion special schools, you could add a new subsection E after line 118 that simply says, "This code section shall not apply to students enrolled in a completion special school established pursuant to Article 31C of this chapter." And then you would make a conforming change in the title on line nine to provide for an exception.

1058. 3:11:09

      Any such completion schools that we generate.

1059. 3:11:11

      Mm-hmm.

1060. 3:11:12

      Okay. Le- let's go back to the amendment. That language that was just proposed, Representative, are you good with that for the-

1061. 3:11:21

      I am good with that

1062. 3:11:22

      ... for the-

1063. 3:11:23

      Yes

1064. 3:11:23

      ... the program kids?

1065. 3:11:27

      Yeah.

1066. 3:11:27

      Yeah.

1067. 3:11:27

      It does recover the enrolled students.

1068. 3:11:29

      The enrolled-

1069. 3:11:30

      Yeah

1070. 3:11:30

      ... not the program kids.

1071. 3:11:31

      Program students would continue to be enrolled in their resident school system-

1072. 3:11:35

      Correct

1073. 3:11:35

      ... and be credential advanced there.

1074. 3:11:36

      Yeah.

1075. 3:11:38

      The diploma school systems-

1076. 3:11:39

      Yeah

1077. 3:11:39

      ... would still be operating.

1078. 3:11:43

      Mr. Chairman, I'd be agreeable to that. It makes sense.

1079. 3:11:47

      Mm-hmm.

1080. 3:11:47

      Okay. Um, and we're good with that amendment, what we talked about?

1081. 3:11:52

      Yeah.

1082. 3:11:52

      You, you got a comment?

1083. 3:11:53

      Yeah, just a quick question. This wouldn't interfere with any attendance contracts the school would wanna do, would they, with the program kids or anybody else?

1084. 3:12:01

      No.

1085. 3:12:01

      Okay. Perfect.

1086. 3:12:03

      I, I don't believe so. Good question. Now, we've got an amendment-

1087. 3:12:08

      Second

1088. 3:12:09

      ... and we've got a second.

1089. 3:12:10

      Okay.

1090. 3:12:11

      Seeing no further discussion, do we understand the amendment, or do we need to get it read again?

1091. 3:12:17

      Mm-mm.

1092. 3:12:17

      We got it.

1093. 3:12:18

      We got it? All right. We're voting on the amendment as read by legislative counsel down there to this bill. All in favor say aye.

1094. 3:12:29

      Aye.

1095. 3:12:29

      All opposed like sign. Okay, that, that, that amendment carries.

1096. 3:12:34

      Okay.

1097. 3:12:34

      Seeing no further discussion and getting close to past dinner-

1098. 3:12:38

      Motion to pass as amended.

1099. 3:12:40

      I amended.

1100. 3:12:40

      Wait.

1101. 3:12:42

      Oh, yeah.

1102. 3:12:42

      As amended. Okay. We got a motion. We got a second for that.

1103. 3:12:46

      Second.

1104. 3:12:46

      Yes, we do. We got a second. All in favor of, uh, this amendment, uh, or, uh, this, this bill as amended, say aye.

1105. 3:12:56

      Aye.

1106. 3:12:57

      All opposed like sign.

1107. 3:12:58

      Aye.

1108. 3:13:00

      Okay, your bill carries. Thank you, Senator.

1109. 3:13:03

      Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

1110. 3:13:03

      Thank you for the good hard work.

1111. 3:13:04

      Thank you, members of the committee.

1112. 3:13:04

      See y'all Wednesday, unless I see you tomorrow at a committee meet.

1113. 3:13:10

      No, I won't.

1114. 3:13:11

      Thank you. Y'all have a safe evening. Safe drivales- driving. We are adjourned.

1115. 3:13:18

      We are.

1116. 3:13:19

      Good job, Mr. Chairman.

1117. 3:13:27

      We appreciate it.

1118. 3:13:28

      Adjourned at 5:00. Adjourned at 5:00.