Comité Urban Affairs del Senado, 26 de febrero de 2026

Transcripción

663 turnos. Seleccione un tiempo para reproducir ese momento del video.

1. 0:23:53

   Here. We were waiting for other members, but, uh, they're in different, uh, meetings right now, and two have gone home. We got out of early from the session. And so we are going to get started now. I'd like to call the meeting to order. Senator Donzella James and our, I'm gonna call you secretary today, is g- Have you, uh, called the roll or you want to?

2. 0:24:29

   Or you wanna just-

3. 0:24:30

   I think we can probably get right into it

4. 0:24:31

   ... say it.

5. 0:24:35

   Hi, everybody. I'm Diego, the legislative assistant. Uh, we're currently joined by Senator Rahman and Senator James of the committee.

6. 0:24:40

   Yeah.

7. 0:24:41

   And, uh, we are also joined by our Senate press officers, Zach Pachak, our Oakland analyst, and our legislative council, so.

8. 0:24:48

   Thank you. You can stay at the handout.

9. 0:24:57

   It's been a long time getting to this point, but, uh, we don't have very much time to pass too much else because crossover day is next week. It's fast approaching. I'm going to, uh, tell you that our update today, uh, we'll do first. Uh, first we're gonna let, uh, Senator, uh, Rahman give us one of the bills that he turned in, Senate Bill 580, and I don't think that's one that we have discussed.

10. 0:25:40

    So 580, and, uh, y- I'll let you tell them everything, you wanna tell them about the, it's a condominium. Yeah.

11. 0:25:48

    Thank you, thank you, Madam Chairman. Uh, Chairman. Uh, this bill, what it does, you know, that, you know, an HOA can foreclose your properties a little bit over $2,000 and they, they can go to, to the court.

12. 0:25:59

    I can't hear you, sir.

13. 0:25:59

    I'm sorry.

14. 0:26:01

    We got you on.

15. 0:26:03

    Sorry. On six?

16. 0:26:05

    Mm-hmm.

17. 0:26:06

    Got it? Okay.

18. 0:26:06

    Yeah.

19. 0:26:06

    Okay. Okay. Got it. Uh, and we have a lot of, you know, we have multiple HOA bill, uh, but this is one just han- you know, to handle one specific problem that I see or, you know, have some complaint. Um, nowadays, you know, in under current situation, HOA can foreclose a, a house, you know, with just $2,000, you know? So what this bill does, 580, is you gotta have that, you know, the amount from 2,000 raised up to 20,000.

20. 0:26:37

    You can't really foreclose a property just, say, you know, a couple of thousand go and it's happening, and they happen, you know, in Georgia, file for, you know, uh, uh, foreclosure. So this is gonna stop that. Basically, that's what it is, and everything was gonna, uh, the procedures, everything will be same. There never gonna be no change how it's done, everything else, but the major focus is on the amount. You can't just, you know, threaten someone else. You get a few thousand dollars, says, "I'm gonna file a foreclosure." Sometimes not necessary they all file it, but that, you know, we just wanna make sure we alleviate that, uh, that, you know, the tension or, you know, uh, that, uh, that threat.

21. 0:27:15

    That's, that's what it is pretty much right now. So thank you, Madam.

22. 0:27:19

    Oh, I, I'm gonna take, uh, there's nobody to take questions from on, on the panel up here, but I'm gonna take questions from you. I just wanna repeat what he just said briefly, and that is that right now, you know, the lien amount that a HOA, COA, and et cetera can, uh, be only $2,000 and then they have rights to sell your, your home, foreclose on you, and do other things that are terrible.

23. 0:27:49

    So, uh, his bill would, uh, make, uh, $2,000, uh, change to $20,000. So you, they'd have to have $20,000 worth of liens on the property, and they still would have to go before the board, uh, before they can, uh, get foreclose on their property. So it is, uh, since many of the legislators now realizing, uh, that it's serious problems because many of them who, uh, live outside of Fulton and, and Douglas and, uh, what, the 13 counties that they call metropolitan Atlanta, those, uh, people stay in hotels or now they're buying condominiums or renting properties too.

24. 0:28:46

    Most of them are buying property. And you might be one of them that has, has gotten a place very close by. So he can see what problems they are having right here within 10 miles of the capital or less, and, and that's why he has brought this to us. And of course, he can introduce bills all the way up to the last day of the session. However, of course, they will not have a chance if they are introduced so late.

25. 0:29:20

    So we do have some, some people who have a question, and I'll, uh, please, what's your name and for the record, and we'll go on with it.

26. 0:29:29

    Hi.

27. 0:29:29

    He's gonna ask you a question.

28. 0:29:30

    Hi, I'm Mel Keaton. I'm the president of my association here. I have notes. Oh, I have notes. I'm sorry. Um...

29. 0:29:36

    I don't know why he didn't do this down here.

30. 0:29:40

    I got the minute, I got the notice at the last minute, so I didn't change clothes, but I, I'm Mel Keaton. I-

31. 0:29:45

    You don't have to change clothes for us.

32. 0:29:47

    L- I know. But, um-

33. 0:29:48

    We take-

34. 0:29:49

    I'm the president of my association and, um, we, as you know, you probably saw Me on the news, uh, about a year and a half ago about a squatter situation.

35. 0:29:58

    Yes.

36. 0:29:58

    The only way we were able to get them out was using the HOA and our covenants to get them out, and it was because they were breaking the covenant. But the issue that I'm having with this $20,000, um, is, is very high because what we have, we have insurance, uh, amenities. We pay, we have five light bills, two water bills, two gas bills, electricity. We pay a lot of stu- we have to pay a lot of stuff. So what we found out is we had people that were playing the system, and what they would do is, the, the, the, the, the law says that you have to have at least $2,000 to foreclose on somebody's house, and we weren't, we not in the business of foreclosing.

37. 0:30:37

    We don't do that. And the, the attorney wa- is what makes that, that foreclosure amount go up and exceed the amount that is... 'Cause the attorneys is what is ripping it and causing the confusion in the HOAs. So what we did, we, you can only, you can get a lien on a house, but after four years, if you don't get a judgment on that lien, you can't do anything with it. You have to write all of that stuff off. Now, imagine you have an HOA with a, we have a budget of about $360,000, and only 50 people are paying, only 50 people are paying.

38. 0:31:10

    So after these 50, if 50 people are paying, you have to go up. We don't wanna go up on the rest of the association and, uh, everybody else, and we have a lot of investment companies like Home Partners, Divvy, uh, American Homes 4 Rent, Vivid, Invitation Homes, that are not paying the HOA fees. So if they, if our fees are only $600, it, you know, uh, and your, your lien amount according to state law is that you have four years to get a lien on a judgment, and it has to a- at least it has to reach $20,000.

39. 0:31:42

    You're never gonna reach $20,000 because... And then everybody's gonna play the system like that, and these big corporations are actually gonna take over and not, and run the community down. The same thing happens to, imagine living in a high-rise condo where you got electricity, wa- one water bill, uh, um, amenities, the elevator, insurance, and all this other stuff that you have to pay for. The, the bill, it, it kinda, it goes against what state policy is an- a- as far as what the lien amount and what you can foreclose on and what you have to write off after four years on your lien judgment.

40. 0:32:20

    It, it does not, they clash with each other, so how are you gonna make something work saying you're gonna raise it $20,000? You're never gonna reach $20,000. You're never gonna reach it, and it, you got four years to do it. How you gonna reach that?

41. 0:32:36

    Are, are you, uh, are you thinking that, uh, $20,000 worth of liens against them, but do you know what those liens, uh, consist of? And he's just talking about for foreclosure.

42. 0:32:54

    Oh, yeah. I, well, we have, we have people that owe us, we have companies that owe us 20, 30,000 right now that, that will not pay. We have, uh, residents that won't pay, you know? So-

43. 0:33:04

    Well, why do you let them stay there if they're not paying their bills?

44. 0:33:06

    Uh, we, we don't, we don't, we just can't foreclose on somebody's house. We just, you have to go through-

45. 0:33:10

    Yes, you can. That's what everybody else is doing.

46. 0:33:11

    You have to go through a pro-

47. 0:33:12

    But I'm not saying homes

48. 0:33:12

    ... we have to go through a process first.

49. 0:33:14

    Uh, excuse me?

50. 0:33:14

    A- a- we have to go through a process before we do that. We have to send a, a letter to them first, but that's not the first course of action. But after that money goes, after we, the, we, we do everything we can. The last thing is to do a foreclosure, and most of the time people come and say, "Let me make a payment arrangement," and we always say yes. So, but-

51. 0:33:34

    But everybody else doesn't say yes.

52. 0:33:36

    Yeah.

53. 0:33:37

    You're, you're one they-

54. 0:33:37

    Yeah. But after-

55. 0:33:39

    So we gotta protect-

56. 0:33:40

    Every, I know every- everybody, but after t- but if the judge says, "Hey, you guys have a lien on this house, and you have had this lien on this house for four years. You did not get a judgment. Everything else after that you have to wipe off," how we gonna fix that issue? 'Cause that's what we've been, we, we have, we have actually had to write off h- uh, thousands of dollars on, on, even the, the big companies like Home Partners that owing us 10 to $15,000 and never pay anything. We've had to write it off. So-

57. 0:34:09

    This is not for companies who owe you money. It's another way that they owe you. They're not part of your HOA. They owe you, the HOA, uh, your, your group, the money, but they're not, th- this has nothing to do with them.

58. 0:34:24

    But we can't, we cannot, we cannot-

59. 0:34:26

    Oh, sorry

60. 0:34:26

    ... we cannot make an arbitrary decision to say, "We like you. We don't like you." We have to treat everybody the same according-

61. 0:34:31

    Correct

62. 0:34:31

    ... to the, the s- the law, the state law that's written in the government, in the, in the government agreement.

63. 0:34:37

    Right, and that's why we're trying to change the law for just for the homeowners or condominium owners, uh, trailer park owners, uh, in that association. So, uh, what we were trying to do is help the homeowner.

64. 0:34:54

    Mm.

65. 0:34:54

    The taxpayer, and not the business. If a business owes you money, then you definitely need to have a way to get your money, and it, it, there are many, many ways of, uh, with the law that you can get your money. Is that correct?

66. 0:35:12

    Right.

67. 0:35:13

    Hey, that, that's our lawyer.

68. 0:35:15

    Okay. So.

69. 0:35:16

    And, and, uh, but I do understand what you're saying, and I'm gonna let him answer, too.

70. 0:35:20

    Okay.

71. 0:35:20

    But, uh, the problem right now is, say for example you go home and the storm wipes, uh, wipes out your, say you got shutters on your house and, and o- o- one of them fall down a little lower and the other one falls off completely. Well, a week later, you might, or less, you might get a, a lien, a f- a fine attached to you and your house, and you, say you got hurt and you, you, you haven't gone back to work, for example.

72. 0:35:55

    You can't make a deal with the homeowners association 'cause they won't hear anything else. So that's why we're trying... W- they can go and sell your house then if they did $2,000 worth of liens, or if they did a thousand and then added 500 more 'cause you hadn't done it in two weeks, and then they start doing it per day, it's very easy to get up to $20,000 when you were doing that, but at least at a higher amount, which I'm not saying that I go for his bill.

73. 0:36:28

    I was just trying to explain-

74. 0:36:29

    Mm

75. 0:36:30

    ... uh, what people who are in those situations, uh, wanted with this. So I'm gonna b- uh, allow the author, who happens to be part of our, uh, committee, and also he was on a study committee with us too.

76. 0:36:48

    Mm-hmm.

77. 0:36:48

    So please go ahead.

78. 0:36:49

    Thank you. Thank you. It is not that... We just need to make sure. I think 2,000 is really not acceptable, you know, this year. It's not necessarily 20,000. I figure we need to put it high, but I'm, you know, willing to, you know, if we get a hearing, the committee, and see what do we know, hear from folks, and I'm, you know, willing to adjust the amount, but 2,000 is too low I think because of the, uh, you know, I had a complaint from, from folks, uh, not necessarily in my district, in my district, even are from outside my district. So we need to get the amount a little higher so make sure there's a possi- you know, there's, you know...

79. 0:37:25

    Not all HOA is after foreclosure, but there are for some Black folks, there are some HOA not doing they're supposed to do. They, they're a good HOA too. Not all of them, you know, not everybody's HOA is, you know, trying to get a, you know, uh, do the wrong, uh, to do wrong, uh, to the homeowner. So that, that, that, that's what I wanted to say.

80. 0:37:47

    Let me offer you, uh, an alternative.

81. 0:37:49

    Yeah.

82. 0:37:49

    Uh, because I give, I've given a-

83. 0:37:50

    Sure

84. 0:37:50

    ... few of you some, some legislation that I, you know, I, I've handed to some reps and I haven't heard it come up yet. I'll offer you another solution.

85. 0:37:57

    You hand me a r- uh...

86. 0:37:58

    I, I handed it out to a few people, emailed it. There's a, is, an, an alternative. A- HUD does this too. HUD actually allows people who are behind on the HOA, and they'll, they'll actually pay it for you and put it into your escrow, and you can pay them back later on at 0% interest. Um, but what if there-

87. 0:38:16

    Is that-

88. 0:38:16

    ... what if there was a bill that y- you know, it was a way that you can assign it to, i- into legislation that if a person is behind on their HOA bill and they have a mortgage, that mortgage company has an invested interest on, in, into that person that has that mortgage. Having the mortgage take over the HOA, put it into, pay it, put it into their loan in their escrow, and make them pay it back and put it into their mortgage. So that way you eli- you, you get rid of the attorney, you get rid of the, the person going into foreclosure.

89. 0:38:49

    The only person that has that invested interest is that mortgage company, so nobody has to, the rest of the community doesn't have to go up on their HOA fees because you got so many people not paying.

90. 0:39:00

    Let me say that this, this doesn't have anything to do with the, uh-

91. 0:39:05

    Mm

92. 0:39:05

    ... the, the fee that you pay.

93. 0:39:07

    Yeah.

94. 0:39:07

    This is the liens they put against you because of other things written in your covenant, like Christmas decorations. You might go in a store-

95. 0:39:16

    Yeah

96. 0:39:16

    ... and see all these beautiful things that's taller than you and I together-

97. 0:39:20

    Mm

98. 0:39:20

    ... and might wanna buy it for your yard. And it might, your yard might be big enough, and, and, uh, but they'll say, "No, you can't do it."

99. 0:39:29

    Yeah.

100. 0:39:29

     After the fact, and then they want to start giving you fines if you don't move it. And so w- and also he's in Gwinnett. You're in Fulton, right?

101. 0:39:39

     Mm-hmm.

102. 0:39:39

     'Cause you li- you're in my community I think, right?

103. 0:39:42

     Mm-mm. I'm not in your district anymore.

104. 0:39:44

     Huh?

105. 0:39:44

     I'm not in your district anymore, but I'm in South Fulton, yeah.

106. 0:39:47

     You don't wanna be in my district. But I understand what you're saying.

107. 0:39:52

     Yeah.

108. 0:39:52

     But y- um-

109. 0:39:55

     But we, we-

110. 0:39:55

     We, we are just trying to help people-

111. 0:39:57

     Yeah

112. 0:39:57

     ... who are suffering, who have gotten their American dream and moved into their home, and now they can't, uh, pay... They paying the fees and the mortgage, but they can't afford some of the liens-

113. 0:40:12

     Mm-hmm

114. 0:40:12

     ... that are placed on them for, they say, frivolous things like the grass is too high. And get, and you know what they do? I know that your, I think your, uh, association and some associations, uh, when your grass is up to six feet and you have a... I mean, six, yeah. Not six feet, 'cause it-

115. 0:40:32

     It gets up to six feet

116. 0:40:33

     ... six, what, 12 inches? What is it that we... We read the b- the bill. 12 inches. 12 inches, and they cut the grass. They came out there and cut the grass down. The, uh, the lady, uh, who was living there had gone to take care of her mother who had died, and she had, she wasn't at, at the house. So anyway, when she got back, she got a $700 fee that she had to pay for the tall grass and weeds and limbs to be moved out of the way.

117. 0:41:13

     So she ha- had to pay this big amount. She claimed that she didn't... You know, she was worried about her mom and went to Utah and was, you know, taking care of her. Her mother did pass away too. She had to take care of that. When she got back, she couldn't believe that she had to pay that much money. They only cut it one time. The grass was up a- again to her, almost to her knee. So, uh, that would fall into what you're talking about right now, I think.

118. 0:41:44

     Yeah. And I, and, and I agree with you on, that we... 'Cause I've had to sue my HOA to make them have an election, and they tried to sue me back, and they were doing things wrong, so... But you gotta be... It's a fine line with people in HOAs. It's like a kid that acted up in school and then they get home, "Mama, I didn't do nothing. I don't know why that teacher picking on me." And I've sent you pictures yourself to show you what people in... When I text you, people- Painted their house pink-

119. 0:42:08

     Yeah

120. 0:42:08

     ... and, and park, it had, you know, all kind of moot violations going on, and they don't want you saying nothing to them. What do you do when the person across your street is trying to sell their home, and you won't take care of your house, and what's next? Like, w- there's nothing else... Only, the only thing that motivates people is money. Like, when they start digging into your pocket, then people tend to get right after that. So I mean, it's, it's just a fine line in it. You don't wanna completely tie the HOA's hands, but you do wanna put safeguards up. We've put safeguards up, like-

121. 0:42:37

     That's all we want

122. 0:42:38

     ... where, where, where a mailbox can, people were charging people $1,000 and 2,000 for a mailbox on daily fines. We capped it at 250. Like, this, this, any judge, any reasonable judge will say, "I'm not letting you fine somebody $2,000 and foreclose on a $2,000 mailbox," you know?

123. 0:42:55

     That's what we're trying to do anyway.

124. 0:42:56

     Yeah.

125. 0:42:57

     Just give you an example. I, I, I was stopped, uh, day before yesterday with the committee meeting. I was in grocery store. Somebody saw me, just stopped me. "I need to talk to you." I said, "What happened?" Said, "Look, you know, uh, in my subdivision they're telling me," they say, "I thought 27, you know, we don't have any s- " They said, "25 some years old, our subdivision don't have any, I haven't got any bill, anything from my HOA. Suddenly I see all the people in our street got a ticket, somewhere from Texas." Said, "I don't know. Doesn't matter.

126. 0:43:27

     What do we need to do? We got a ticket at night, came in." W- because, you know, I guess they had s- multiple cars on the street. I don't know exactly. So I said, "Well, just write it to them." I'm still waiting, you know. That happened day before yesterday. So sometimes, you know, things like happen. There's some bad folks trying to g- take advantage for different reason, so many different reason. They say, "We had no idea. Nobody gave us notice. Suddenly we see all this, uh, notice. Everybody now in, in, in, in our subdivision got a note, uh, to send the money to Texas somewhere.

127. 0:43:59

     So we need to find out whether the, the HOA even exist, you know. And we thought we didn't have an HOA."

128. 0:44:03

     Yeah.

129. 0:44:04

     So we trying to protect you. That's what we trying to do, basically.

130. 0:44:07

     Okay.

131. 0:44:07

     You know, I'm, I'm, I'm with you, you know, that, uh, I, I understand. You know, we understand.

132. 0:44:11

     Yeah. I'll reserve my time for... 'Cause somebody else might wanna speak.

133. 0:44:14

     Thank you. I appreciate it.

134. 0:44:14

     But, you know, uh, w- we have five minutes this time, so he- y- your minutes were over.

135. 0:44:18

     Okay.

136. 0:44:19

     But I wanted to hear, you know, what you... And, and, um, I would like to talk to you afterwards too, so we can see if we can, uh, find something that we can try to do. Okay, thank you. Uh, we have many people who have, uh, signed up, and I would like to start with Simmons.

137. 0:44:46

     What happened to, uh, did our friend-

138. 0:44:48

     She had to go. Yeah. Christina had to go.

139. 0:44:52

     But she had been here all day.

140. 0:44:55

     Yes.

141. 0:44:55

     So I wanted to call on her first, but go ahead.

142. 0:44:57

     She's been here since what?

143. 0:44:58

     Thank you very much. You're good.

144. 0:44:59

     7:30 this morning.

145. 0:45:00

     Do you know what she wanted to say, and you might include it? No.

146. 0:45:03

     She didn't wanna speak.

147. 0:45:04

     Okay.

148. 0:45:04

     I don't think she signed up to speak.

149. 0:45:05

     Oh, she gave me a, oh, she gave me a letter.

150. 0:45:08

     Yeah. Thank you.

151. 0:45:09

     She did.

152. 0:45:09

     No problem.

153. 0:45:12

     So-

154. 0:45:13

     I've been here many times before. My name is Caroline Simmons. I am with Waldrop Park Condominium Association, and I just wanted to give you guys an update on what has been going on in my community. On January 31st, we had what they are calling our annual meeting of the members. All of the members were muted so that we could not speak to one another. We could only speak to the board president. He was the only one who could see our questions in the meeting. We asked for quorum to find out what was our quorum number.

155. 0:45:44

     We were advised that quorum would be determined based upon the votes. When the votes were taken, the board president disappeared from the screen because he was losing, is my opinion. We later found out that we did not meet quorum, therefore, he gets to keep his seat for another two years, is the way he has explained it to us. Our budget is negative $392,000 for the year, for 2026, and because we did not meet quorum, we are, were told that that budget will stand for the year.

156. 0:46:17

     None of us know how much my, our dues are supposed to be for 2026 because there are so many different fees. There is this annual assessment. There is a special assessment. There are parking fees that do not add up as to how much each individual unit is going to be paying to be able to park in front of our own homes and our condos. We have a parking lot that we've never paid for to be able to park. We've always been able to park in front of our units. It was included in our assessments, and now we'll have to pay a parking fee, and if you do not pay that parking fee, then you will not be able to park in front of your home.

157. 0:46:53

     Another item that we have is that we have the water bill, $660,000 that we owe to DeKalb County. We do not have a resolution to that, and as far as I can tell, DeKalb County is on the verge of turning off our water. But our board does not have a resolution as to how we're going to pay that bill, and it is not in our negative budget. We recently had a board member where our board president attempted to remove her from the board, and our attorney said they would not work for us any longer until we could resolve our issue with what is going on with our board.

158. 0:47:31

     One of the things that I did want to bring up is the acceleration of dues. So in our declaration, there is the option to be able to accelerate dues and then take people to court. So in reference to the $2,000, we pay $250 per month, so at the end of a year it would be $3,000. So anyone who is currently behind in their dues could potentially be foreclosed on by June. Even if they're just missed January and February's dues and they accelerate for the entire year and those owners cannot pay off their dues, they could be foreclosed on if those dues are accelerated to $3,000.

159. 0:48:07

     And they could foreclose on them at the drop of a dime. Because our board is very reme- reli- um, malicious. They are very retaliatory. If you ask questions, then you will get a cease and desist letter, or you will get a letter as I have that says-

160. 0:48:22

     Come on now

161. 0:48:22

     ... you will not get an answer from the board.

162. 0:48:24

     Goodness.

163. 0:48:24

     If you do, and then the attorneys will not ask you, answer you So today I sent out a letter to our board, 'cause it has been 386 days since I initially asked for our financials for 2025. I have not received not one shred of documentation for 2025, and we are now in February of 2026. What I did receive on October 8th was a letter from the attorney advising me that I was not entitled to the information that I was asking for. But there is a case that has already gone through the court in 2005, Kalis versus Park Ridge Condo Association, that states we are a, we are eligible to receive bank statements, contracts, insurance policies, copies of checks, everything that I'm asking for, but the attorney has told me that I'm not entitled to it.

164. 0:49:16

     So I will be filing another lawsuit. I did receive a dismissal on the, uh, derivative action that we filed, so I will be sa- filing one on my own. That will be against not only the association, but the individual board members themselves. I made a payment to my account in November of 2004 that is not posted to my account. I have had payments removed from my account, and when I say something, I'm told, "Oh, it's there." It's there, but right underneath it you've removed it again, so my payments are not posting.

165. 0:49:48

     I'm mailing my payments. I can see that the payments are appearing, but the board is not posting them to my account. So I have stopped sending them, 'cause I'm not wasting stamps. I just put the money in the account, and I send them a notice and ask them when will they be sending me to collections so that I can then counter-claim and get all of that done. In answer to the gentleman's question about how do they collect the funds, I just wanted to let you know that in your declaration, if there is a leasing permit that people are getting and people like Invitation Homes, Divvy, and so forth are not paying you-

166. 0:50:23

     Yes

167. 0:50:24

     ... you can collect rent from the tenants potentially if the tenants will pay. But you have to talk to the tenants, 'cause in my community we're able to do that because it's in our declaration, but our board refuses to do so. Our board has done an amendment to remove our residency requirement. They p- um, posted the vote on November 21st, which is should be the end date for people to be able to vote. However, what our board did was allow that vote run all the way until February. They cut the vote off, and then the board president sent a message out letting people that he likes know that they could bring their accounts current and be able to vote, and then they passed it on April the 4th.

168. 0:51:04

     So I w- I only have a year, so I will be adding that to my lawsuit as well. I couldn't do it in the derivative action, 'cause everyone didn't want to do it, but I will be doing that lawsuit pro- pro se. I say that to say that it is very important that SB-406 pass, because we need somewhere to go if the boards are not doing what the boards should be doing. If they are acting funny, we need to act funny too.

169. 0:51:33

     Yeah.

170. 0:51:33

     We don't have anywhere to go right now. Most attorneys will not take our cases, and those that will are exorbitant. The boards will run us out of money while using our money through insurance, not out of their own pockets, but out of insurance, in order for us to pay and then have our cases dismissed.

171. 0:51:54

     I see.

172. 0:51:55

     So that's, that's the short version of my long story.

173. 0:51:59

     Well, I know your five minutes are up. I heard-

174. 0:52:01

     Yeah

175. 0:52:01

     ... the bell ring.

176. 0:52:02

     However-

177. 0:52:02

     Y'all ever don't leave. We have a question.

178. 0:52:04

     For sure. Um, uh, you mentioned that, you know, you, it's important that we pass 406. By any chance, have you reached out to Senator Brass by any chance?

179. 0:52:13

     I have.

180. 0:52:13

     Okay. I just wanted someone to know, because-

181. 0:52:15

     I have. I've reached out to every senator to let them know that this is what's going on.

182. 0:52:20

     Thank you. Appreciate it.

183. 0:52:20

     No problem.

184. 0:52:21

     And, and thank you for making it easier for us to, uh, try to pass something or at least get a, a official hearing from another committee.

185. 0:52:30

     Yeah.

186. 0:52:31

     And, uh, please know that we're working on it, and I, then I see you there at, uh-

187. 0:52:36

     Yes

188. 0:52:36

     ... when we pass, uh-

189. 0:52:38

     I was there this morning when, uh, 1035 passed.

190. 0:52:41

     Oh.

191. 0:52:42

     I was there last night when 406-

192. 0:52:43

     1035 passed the House?

193. 0:52:44

     Yes. Yes, it did this morning.

194. 0:52:47

     That's good news, 'cause, because they-

195. 0:52:48

     Well, not the House, but the, um, Ways and Means Committee.

196. 0:52:51

     Yeah, of the House.

197. 0:52:52

     So, yeah.

198. 0:52:52

     Of the House.

199. 0:52:53

     Yeah.

200. 0:52:53

     See, we're in this-

201. 0:52:54

     So...

202. 0:52:54

     Yeah, that's, that's, that's very good.

203. 0:52:56

     I just gotta keep it in my head.

204. 0:52:57

     That's very good. So at least we have two bill, bills that have, uh, that are moving.

205. 0:53:02

     Yes.

206. 0:53:03

     Because the next Wednesday, is it? Crossover.

207. 0:53:08

     Friday.

208. 0:53:08

     N- next Friday.

209. 0:53:09

     Next Friday.

210. 0:53:09

     Yeah.

211. 0:53:10

     You know Mo, look.

212. 0:53:11

     I'm trying to keep track.

213. 0:53:12

     Come work with us. Just kidding.

214. 0:53:14

     I'm trying to keep track.

215. 0:53:15

     I, I'm trying to-

216. 0:53:16

     So...

217. 0:53:16

     I understand. I'm... This is terrible.

218. 0:53:20

     Yes.

219. 0:53:20

     This is horrible, but, uh, I'm trying to not have all of us with long faces right now, because we are working-

220. 0:53:28

     Right

221. 0:53:28

     ... to try to r- uh-

222. 0:53:30

     And I think there are-

223. 0:53:30

     ... correct some of the problems.

224. 0:53:32

     Right. And I think there are some amendments that can be made to the bills, but at this point, if we can get a bill in to work with to give people somewhere to go, I'm okay with that. We can make adjustments later.

225. 0:53:43

     Mm-hmm.

226. 0:53:44

     Um, but there's some things that need to be done, because people, people are losing their homes for no reason because boards are malicious.

227. 0:53:54

     Right.

228. 0:53:54

     And then there are communities that are suffering because people won't pay. So we've got to be able to find a common ground that benefit to everyone.

229. 0:54:02

     Ex- exactly.

230. 0:54:03

     So...

231. 0:54:04

     And, and all, all HOAs and COAs are not predatory.

232. 0:54:08

     No. Everybody is not bad.

233. 0:54:09

     Um, we, we just heard about one right here that's-

234. 0:54:11

     Right

235. 0:54:12

     ... not predatory.

236. 0:54:13

     Yep.

237. 0:54:13

     So...

238. 0:54:13

     Every- everyone does not drink and drive, but we have DUI laws. Everybody is not Bernie Madoff-

239. 0:54:21

     Correct

240. 0:54:21

     ... but the SEC put rules in place that everyone has to follow.

241. 0:54:25

     Exactly.

242. 0:54:25

     So we just have to find something that works.

243. 0:54:28

     Yeah. Because all of them are needed if they were driving-

244. 0:54:33

     Yes

245. 0:54:33

     ... some DOA, DO... Look-

246. 0:54:35

     Some DUI

247. 0:54:36

     ... I lost my son to a drunk driver.

248. 0:54:40

     Yeah.

249. 0:54:40

     So-

250. 0:54:40

     Yeah

251. 0:54:40

     ... when you even talk about that, I can see the whole picture.

252. 0:54:43

     Right.

253. 0:54:44

     So thank you very much.

254. 0:54:45

     Not a problem.

255. 0:54:45

     And, and, uh, please stick with us.

256. 0:54:48

     Oh, I'll be here.

257. 0:54:49

     Because there's strength in numbers.

258. 0:54:51

     Just have the meetings on Tuesdays and Thursdays.

259. 0:54:51

     And, and we are trying to move these bills forward so that we can get relief. The two that you mentioned already-

260. 0:54:58

     Yeah

261. 0:54:58

     ... praise God, are moving.

262. 0:55:00

     Yeah.

263. 0:55:00

     And let's hope they go all the way through. And, and your presence would help us to do that.

264. 0:55:07

     Yeah.

265. 0:55:07

     So thank you.

266. 0:55:08

     You're very welcome.

267. 0:55:09

     Next person is... Oh, I don't have glasses.

268. 0:55:18

     Courtney Heard.

269. 0:55:21

     Courtney Heard.

270. 0:55:21

     Hello.

271. 0:55:22

     Hello.

272. 0:55:23

     So my name is, um, Courtney Heard. I'm a homeowner in Renaissance at South Park in, um, South Fulton.

273. 0:55:29

     Yes.

274. 0:55:29

     Um, and I'm just here to say, um, that our board, we have a board that's elected that, uh, well, actually it's, it's appointed, and they haven't informed the community that they're an appointed board and not an elected board. And so they've changed us from a HOA into a POA without amending our bylaws. And so I just wanna, um, read something that I wrote about what HOA reforms means to me. So, um, HOA reforms to me means restoring fairness, transparency and accountability to communities we call home.

275. 0:56:02

     It means ensuring that boards operate within the authority granted to them, that elections are legitimate, and that appointments are clearly documented and lawful. Reform is about protecting homeowners from decisions made without proper quorum, proper notice, and proper oversight.

276. 0:56:20

     Yeah.

277. 0:56:20

     It also means financial transparency, clear budgets, clear records, responsible vendor selections, and safeguards against conflicts of interest. Homeowners deserve to understand how their dues are spent and to trust that those funds are managed ethically. Homeowners reforms means access to information. It means timely responses to records requests, transparent meeting minutes, and clear communication that respects re- that respects residents rather than dismisses them.

278. 0:56:52

     It ensures that rules are enforced consistently and not selectively. Most importantly, HOA reform is about protecting property rights and dignity. A home is a, is often a family's largest investment. No homeowner should feel powerless, silenced, or misled by the very board meant to serve the community. To me, HOA reform is about not conflict, it's about structure. It's about creating systems that prevent abuse, reduce confusion, and build trust.

279. 0:57:27

     It is about shifting from personality-driven leadership to policy-driven li- governance that everyone in the neighborhood can benefit from. Thank you.

280. 0:57:39

     Thank you, and I would love for you to, uh, send that to Diego, because I am, we're in the process of going through all of the bills that have been introduced on the Senate side as well as the House, and especially look at the ones who have some potential of actually passing. And we wanna make sure that most of your, uh, definitions of homeowners association is, is, uh, touched in there. Okay.

281. 0:58:08

     Okay. Thank you.

282. 0:58:08

     Okay. Thank you. So, uh, you have Diego's address. Thank you. The, the next person... I don't see him. What, what happened to him? Well, John Moore. Thank you. Where's... Yeah. Sorry, she's gonna get up. Let me stand up. Hello, and thank you for coming today.

283. 0:58:34

     Yes, Senator, you too. Always good to see you, fellow Georgian. Senator Rahman, how are you?

284. 0:58:38

     Will you introduce yourself-

285. 0:58:40

     Yes

286. 0:58:40

     ... and let everybody know who you are?

287. 0:58:41

     Yes, ma'am. Thank you very much. And thank you all very, very much, uh, this afternoon. Uh, Senator, my name is, uh, John Moore. I'm the senior director for policy at the Urban League of Greater Atlanta, and I have a very short statement in support of this measure. Uh, Senator, you know, as the senior director for policy at the Urban League, I wanna express our very strong support for this measure because it speaks directly to the lived experiences of homeowners. We serve every day across the region, families, particularly first-time homebuyers, and seniors, and working class families, have shared stories of HOA practices.

288. 0:59:16

     I have some of my own, of my own HOA in Gwinnett County.

289. 0:59:20

     Excuse me.

290. 0:59:20

     Unexpected fees and enforcement actions that threaten their financial stability. Homeownership is one of the most important pathways to building generational wealth, as we all know, and no family should fear losing that opportunity because of unclear rules or a lack of accountability. This measure, we believe, strengthens transparency, ensures fair processes, and creates clear avenues for homeowners to understand their rights and responsibilities. It does not diminish the value of HOAs. Instead, it reinforces the r- the trust and clarity that healthy communities depend on.

291. 0:59:53

     When homeowners have access to information, when governance is consistent and fair, and when oversight is balanced, neighborhoods thrive. The Urban League of Greater Atlanta's mission is to advance economic empowerment and to protect pathways... The Urban League of Greater Atlanta's mission is to advance economic empowerment and to protect pathways to stability for all Georgians. Measures like this one, Senator, help safeguard those pathways. They ensure that homeownership remains a source of security, not stress, and that every resident has the confidence and clarity they deserve.

292. 1:00:28

     So on behalf of the Urban League, we support this measure, and we thank you for your leadership in advancing this, uh, legislation.

293. 1:00:34

     And I thank you very much for- Excuse me

294. 1:00:38

     That's okay

295. 1:00:39

     But even, uh, saying that you have a HOA, it's not... Is it a predatory HOA, or just one that's-

296. 1:00:46

     It's been problematic from time to time, and we've had to also fight- ... uh, for our rights as, as homeowners, uh, in Gwinnett County. So it's, it's, it's pervasive.

297. 1:00:54

     Well, he represents Gwinnett County.

298. 1:00:56

     He does

299. 1:00:56

     And one of our other-

300. 1:00:57

     He does

301. 1:00:57

     ... uh, Nikki, uh, Merritt-

302. 1:00:59

     Nikki Merritt, yes

303. 1:00:59

     ... who is our, our-

304. 1:01:01

     That's right

305. 1:01:01

     ... Black Caucus chairwoman.

306. 1:01:02

     Yes, ma'am. At, at my state senate.

307. 1:01:03

     And she's o- she's on this committee.

308. 1:01:05

     Yes, ma'am. That's correct.

309. 1:01:05

     And she... Okay.

310. 1:01:06

     Absolutely.

311. 1:01:06

     Well, wait, they very close, so he... You can count... You can, uh-

312. 1:01:09

     Indeed. Indeed

313. 1:01:10

     ... blame him too.

314. 1:01:11

     I will do that.

315. 1:01:12

     All right.

316. 1:01:12

     All right. Well, thank you all very much.

317. 1:01:13

     We, we, uh, really appreciate the Urban League-

318. 1:01:16

     Yes, ma'am

319. 1:01:16

     ... um, stepping out on this issue and supporting us.

320. 1:01:20

     It's a very important issue. And, and Senator, as you know, when we conducted our statewide report a few years ago, we s- talked about specifically about, uh, uh, folks, uh, who have been, uh, have had horrible experiences. And there are predatory practices, and they prey on certain communities. And so we, we wanna make sure that we can kinda get over the hump and protect our people.

321. 1:01:39

     Thank you

322. 1:01:40

     So all Georgians. Thank you very much, Senator.

323. 1:01:41

     Oh, yes. Thank you very much.

324. 1:01:42

     Thank you.

325. 1:01:43

     And y'all can clap when you like to, but, uh, 'cause we not up there on the floor with the rest of them. Also, thank you and the next person.

326. 1:01:57

     What's the first name? Connie. Huh? Connie. Connie. Connie Robinson.

327. 1:02:08

     Hi.

328. 1:02:08

     Oh, hi, Connie.

329. 1:02:10

     Hi.

330. 1:02:14

     I actually am a Robinson too.

331. 1:02:16

     Oh.

332. 1:02:16

     By marriage right now.

333. 1:02:18

     Oh.

334. 1:02:18

     Another...

335. 1:02:19

     Okay. Well, good for you.

336. 1:02:20

     I got married three years ago.

337. 1:02:21

     Oh, congratulations.

338. 1:02:22

     But, but I was always using James, so-

339. 1:02:25

     You maintain Connie

340. 1:02:26

     ... hey, I better, I better talk to you.

341. 1:02:29

     Yes, please.

342. 1:02:30

     Just kidding.

343. 1:02:31

     Um, thank you all for this opportunity. I am Connie Robinson. I am actually a grassroots organizer of HOAs, HOA collaboration across, um, city of South Fulton, I'm actually in your district, and also, um, other, um, HOAs across the, the nation, more or less, from other states. Because they found out what our group was doing and they wanted to be a part of it. Because basically we are a peer board group.

344. 1:02:57

     Yep.

345. 1:02:57

     I've been, um-

346. 1:02:59

     Do I need to cut it up or?

347. 1:03:00

     ... involved with HOAs for the last 13 years. I was the president, secretary-

348. 1:03:05

     Excuse me

349. 1:03:06

     ... um, on the architectural commit. Just different, um, roles that I've played to learn more about HOAs and to try to help other HOA board members, because as you know, we are all volunteers, right?

350. 1:03:17

     Correct.

351. 1:03:17

     So regardless of our experience, our expertise, our status or whatever, HOAs are unique. As you have heard many stories from homeowners as it relates to concerns they've had dealing with their HOAs. So our group, um, work with other boards particularly to try to help educate them, share best practices, learn from each other's experiences, as well as the resources that we have available to us. Because many boards have l- attorneys or collection, um, offices or management companies, so that we're not just operating in a vacuum.

352. 1:03:54

     We're able to share and reach out to our own sources and bring that information back so that we can move forward in the best interest of our communities. As you know, or as it was stated earlier, not all HOA boards are predatory.

353. 1:04:08

     Mm.

354. 1:04:09

     Right? Some of us really wanna help the community, which is why we've stepped into these roles, because it's a lot of work. And many board members don't realize how much is involved until they actually step into those shoes, because most of them think the management company is gonna do everything. But they have to have oversight, right? And, um, even with new communities, when it comes to the developers turning over these boards, the boards tend to assume, you know, everything is gonna operate, um, like rocket science, and they don't really have to do anything because the way they may have been led may not have been a clear picture-

355. 1:04:51

     Yeah

356. 1:04:51

     ... as to what actually happens. So just to give you, you know, a little bit about who we are, and we appreciate, you know, the efforts that you are making because HOA reform is definitely needed. Um, HOAs govern millions of Georgia homeowners alone. I think somewhere around 2.3 million residents live in HOA communities, and as it was mentioned, boards are volunteers. They're homeowners first, but they're volunteers trying to serve in the capacity of maintaining their communities. So with, um, HOAs, fairness and balance matters.

357. 1:05:24

     Homeowners need protection from unreasonable practices because again, all board members don't operate the same. You know, some of them don't realize the role they're in, and the power goes to their head, and they use it maliciously. Um, but boards need reasonable authority to function, and they need oversight, which I think is one of the main things that we feel is needed.

358. 1:05:47

     Yeah.

359. 1:05:47

     Education for homeowners, education for board members, and then oversight. Um, one-sided laws create more conflict, not less. We're asking again for balance and oversight, not to weaken HOAs, but to strengthen trust. Transparency prevents conflict, as it was mentioned about just getting access to records. You have boards preventing homeowners from access to records that they pay into so that they can see actually what is going on. So transparency up front saves courts, communities, and legislators time later.

360. 1:06:21

     Homeowners want understanding, not confrontation. Boards want clarity so they can govern Confidently and effectively. Education, again, is a win-win. Many issues come from lack of training, not necessarily bad intent. Education requirements or resources help boards comply, but they need to know where to go for that. Even when we had that, um, this, was it the CTR? The Compliance Transparency Act.

361. 1:06:47

     Oh, yeah.

362. 1:06:47

     When that thing came down, everybody was so confused. Where do we get our guidance? It went back and forth. Oh, you have to comply to the BOI. Oh no, you don't have to comply. We had nowhere to turn, and again, we're talking about volunteers. We had management companies that was charging some boards $4,000 to complete the form that could really be completed yourself, but, you know, a lot of boards say, "Oh no, we'll let the management company do it," but they're spending unnecessarily funds because it didn't necessarily come all out of their pocket.

363. 1:07:20

     You know, it's sitting in the HOA bucket.

364. 1:07:23

     Mm-hmm.

365. 1:07:23

     So they were like, "Oh, just go ahead on and pay it," and it was, again, if you don't know what you don't know, it's very easy to get taken advantage of.

366. 1:07:33

     Mm-hmm.

367. 1:07:33

     So we support legislation that improves transparency and homeowner protection while, again, respecting volunteer boards, um, review HOA bills with balance in mind. I know it's a lot of them out there. Some of them may be conflicting. I think I read one where they were talking about being able to dissolve an HOA, right? Well, we constantly have builders, developers, creating HOA communities, so are we creating HOA communities on one hand or dissolving them on the other? You know, it's like, help make it make sense because it appears to be in conflict.

368. 1:08:07

     Um, also I wanted to share, I know I don't have a lot of time, so with HOA, HB1036, the HOA dissolution, it could leave contracts, debts, and infrastructure obligations unresolved, exposing homeowners and municipalities to risk. Solution might be considering raising the threshold for a referendum to a majority and for dissolution to 66%, while providing clear guidance for transferring obligations. Uh, HB, HB1035 and 1036, the loss of foreclosure as enforcement tool, eliminating foreclosure options could threaten the financial sta- um, stability of HOA-led communities and shift costs to compliant homeowners, as was mentioned earlier, you know, by Mel.

369. 1:08:49

     We don't wanna raise dues because we have homeowners that won't pay. That's like a punishment because we've even heard, "Oh, we're paying and then we gotta pay more because you have homeowners that are not paying?" But it costs to go after the homeowners that are not paying. You know, so we're kinda caught in a t- catch-22. What do you do? So hard decisions have to be made. So maintain foreclosure as an option, but consider reasonable safeguards or thresholds. Um, SB 361 and 108, the registration requirements, new registrations and recording, reporting mandates may create additional costs and administrative burdens for boards already operating with limited resources.

370. 1:09:31

     So does it need to be on a sliding scale based on, um, you know, how many homes you have in your community versus everybody paying the same thing? I don't know if that's something that, you know, can be considered, or allowing communities to opt into reporting based on community vote-

371. 1:09:46

     Yeah.

372. 1:09:46

     So those that want and can afford-

373. 1:09:48

     10 seconds

374. 1:09:48

     ... reporting can participate. You said 10 seconds? Okay. And, um, again, volunteer board capacity, election monitoring, and disclosure requirements, it also can risk over, um, overtaxing volunteer boards, potentially undermining effective governance. Solution might be ensuring requirements are scalable and do not overwhelm volunteer boards. And I have a couple of other things, but I will leave this with you. We've also sent them in. We've written, you know, our legislators and shared our concerns and some of the thoughts, and we thank you for the opportunity to come and speak before you, and I hope we can-

375. 1:10:19

     Okay.

376. 1:10:19

     ... continue these conversations to-

377. 1:10:20

     Yes, before you leave.

378. 1:10:22

     Get to a happy medium.

379. 1:10:23

     You have a, you have a question. I, uh, I would like to, uh, ask you, uh, about the legislation that we already have.

380. 1:10:31

     Mm-hmm.

381. 1:10:32

     Uh, is there anything that you liked or did not like about the legislation? I know what he didn't like, but...

382. 1:10:39

     Oh, yeah. So I definitely like, um, when it comes to the, um, raising the threshold-

383. 1:10:45

     Mm-hmm

384. 1:10:45

     ... for, um, foreclosures.

385. 1:10:48

     Mm-hmm.

386. 1:10:48

     Because I do think that might be a scary enough tactic, I would hope, to warrant homeowners to just communicate, because a lot of the problems I see come from lack of communication from the homeowner-

387. 1:11:02

     Correct

388. 1:11:02

     ... whether they have no respect for the board or whatever the case may be. Um, okay, you're absent, away from the home, you didn't get the notice, but the bills continue to go on. Like, you can't just ignore that because you have other priorities or responsibilities. You still have to stay in touch and stay in tune and know what's happening with your financial obligations. So I know for us, we've even offered amnesty programs where we sent, you know, letters to the homeowners that were indebted to the community and we said, "Hey, you know, have a board hearing," and then, as was mentioned earlier, payment plans are arranged.

389. 1:11:42

     And then our board, we actually waived 75% of the soft cost, which are those fees which are just that, you know, fees or whatever, because as we talked to our attorney, she said the fee amount is only really to get their attention. You're not there to make money. So it's within the board's authority to negotiate some of that, right? But you still want a penalty in place, because otherwise, people will pay when they feel like it. You know, so we had to leave, or we left, we chose to leave that extra 25% of whatever those fees had accumulated to as part of the, um, re- ...

390. 1:12:21

     penalty for not maintaining your responsibility to the community. And so, um, but we couldn't even get people really to respond to that. Like, it's like, how do we work with you? Like, how do you get their attention? Whether it's the, the foreclosure process or trying to give them opportunities to, you know, opt out with going through the, um, amnesty program. And then we even offer community service because you have so many services you have to pay for in your community, which many of them are able to be done by, um, you know, homeowners in the community or even youth.

391. 1:12:58

     We even started a youth program because youth need community service hours for school. So we even started our youth service program so the people didn't have to leave home, the parents didn't have to worry about getting them wherever. They could actually, as a nonprofit organization, they could actually serve in their community. And we gave them light duty type assignments, you know, with oversight, but that was to help them. But in that same process, we offered that as a, a way for some of our homeowners that were indebted that may not have had the extra means to say, "Okay, you know, we can give you a payment plan.

392. 1:13:31

     We can give you some community service hours." Even some of the opportunities was to show up at a meeting. Now, if you can't spend two hours, you don't have no money, but somewhere in your schedule you can't spend two hou- like, so you really not trying to work with us as we're trying to work with you.

393. 1:13:49

     I understand. But let me ask this, so, uh, who are the people on your group? Are they, um, residents that live in the, the-

394. 1:13:58

     The board?

395. 1:13:58

     On your... Yeah, your, your-

396. 1:14:00

     Yeah, they're all homeowners.

397. 1:14:00

     I mean, on your, um-

398. 1:14:02

     Oh, yes

399. 1:14:02

     ... your organization.

400. 1:14:03

     They, so they live throughout the ci- they're board members. Most of them are board members. We also interact with other homeowners, too.

401. 1:14:09

     Uh-huh.

402. 1:14:09

     But as far as our collaboration group, those are all board members, homeowners throughout the city, not just in South Fulton.

403. 1:14:17

     Okay.

404. 1:14:18

     But they're throughout the ci-

405. 1:14:19

     Any elected officials?

406. 1:14:20

     No, no.

407. 1:14:22

     Thank you.

408. 1:14:22

     You're welcome.

409. 1:14:23

     I appreciate that.

410. 1:14:24

     Thank you.

411. 1:14:24

     Because other people are telling me that some of the elected officials who have been working with us, uh, are actually might be an attorney or so, and they're the ones that's helping the, uh, the HOAs and-

412. 1:14:38

     No. All right.

413. 1:14:40

     Stabbing us in the back.

414. 1:14:41

     Right.

415. 1:14:41

     So we- So we, we just need to, to-

416. 1:14:44

     Yeah, yeah

417. 1:14:44

     ... ask everyone, especially since you have group.

418. 1:14:47

     Yes.

419. 1:14:47

     And I'd like to talk more to you, too.

420. 1:14:49

     Okay, definitely.

421. 1:14:51

     So.

422. 1:14:51

     Thank you.

423. 1:14:51

     Thank you, and, uh-

424. 1:14:53

     Okay

425. 1:14:53

     ... we got one, our last speaker, unless anybody forgot to- May we have a- Thank you. I think so.

426. 1:15:03

     And while you sitting down, I, I have a, a real concern with what you said about the, uh, officers that stayed there because he said you didn't have a quorum, and then once you have a quorum at the next meeting, he's still there from now on, uh, and forevermore? Until he decides he wants to leave.

427. 1:15:25

     No officer.

428. 1:15:26

     That's, that's, that's not, that's, that's not legal, I'm sure. Is that legal? Heck no. Heck no.

429. 1:15:30

     No.

430. 1:15:30

     Oh, I'm sorry. You all know. We're gonna write some of this up. Uh, we won't put names if you don't want us to. I don't mind. Okay. All right. Are you gonna leave? Are you gonna call me soon?

431. 1:15:46

     Yeah, I, I, I do too. I work with the KO. I gotta talk to her.

432. 1:15:49

     Oh, okay, go ahead. I'm sorry. Go ahead.

433. 1:15:51

     Oh, no, you're good. So my name is Michael Shepherd. I am the founder-

434. 1:15:55

     Hello, Michael Shepherd

435. 1:15:55

     ... and the executive... Hello. Good senators, Senator Rahman, Donzella James. Um, so yeah, so I'm the founder and executive director of Working for Accountability, Transparency and Control for Homeowners. I saw a lot of people advocating for themselves, and it was kinda fragmented. So to make sure as many people know about these meetings-

436. 1:16:17

     Mm-hmm

437. 1:16:17

     ... you know, where legislation is, you know, I, I, I put that on myself to coordinate that effort and to bring people's story to the forefront-

438. 1:16:26

     Okay

439. 1:16:26

     ... through any contacts that I have. Okay, so many of the bills that's been presented, I think 95% of them are great, hit the nail on the head. I'm not gonna go through every single one, but all of them from, you know, creating the commission, the oversight commission, from, um, increasing the foreclosures to, um-

440. 1:16:47

     What, what's that number of the, uh, first one that you mentioned?

441. 1:16:51

     The number of which, which one? Which-

442. 1:16:52

     The, um-

443. 1:16:53

     I'm sorry. What, the-

444. 1:16:55

     Uh, creating the-

445. 1:16:55

     The commission? The oversight? Um, SB406.

446. 1:16:57

     The oversight commission.

447. 1:16:58

     Yeah, S- yes.

448. 1:16:59

     A- A- SB what?

449. 1:17:01

     SB406.

450. 1:17:04

     Okay.

451. 1:17:04

     Yeah.

452. 1:17:05

     Yeah, we did that yesterday.

453. 1:17:07

     Yes, I, I was there.

454. 1:17:09

     Go ahead.

455. 1:17:10

     Yeah, so I think that's great, and I just wanna use this time to elaborate on the concern with that. Yes, I'm excited that we're heading that direction. It look, it's looking like it's heading to the full Senate floor to get a vote, and it should be crossing over. This we know. But my, and I, I told the author of the bill, Senator Brass, this as well. I've communicated this to him as soon as he released that bill, I believe on January 16th. The concern that I have, that people that I talk with have, is that you get a commission that's created that is supposed to have oversight over the condos, the POAs, the HOAs, but then it's open to many of the same abusers that people have been coming and complaining about, writing to you about, crying to you about.

456. 1:17:55

     It's open to those individuals. And so I explained to Senator Brass to give great consideration to the fact that when you create this board, it should be impartial and fair, and it should also have the image that it's at least fair as well. Even if it's not, it should at least have that image. And so my recommendation was that in order to serve on that board, you shouldn't be actively working for an HOA law firm, an HOA property management company.

457. 1:18:26

     It could be open to anyone else, but if it's open to those individuals, I feel that is a backdoor way of telling people and complaining, the people who are complaining, tell them, "Here's your commission." But then at the same time, allowing their same abusers at the board level, the HOA law firm level, and the property management to come in and have an additional avenue of abuse. That's my biggest concern, impartiality. Um, and so he, h- his, a rebuttal that I did get from him was that, you know, he's not opposed to an active HOA board member serving on that commission as long as they recuse themself if their own community comes up.

458. 1:19:05

     Yeah.

459. 1:19:05

     Which makes sense.

460. 1:19:06

     Yeah, he's-

461. 1:19:06

     But he didn't answer on the HOA law firms and the property management company. I couldn't get an answer. And so that, that left me feeling very uneasy, if not for myself, but for many people that think they're about to get help, and I suspect the same faces that they see and complain about now will be on that oversight commission. So I just wanted to state that's a huge concern, and I have one ask. I don't think I ask you guys to do anything. This is the request for Michael Shepherd that when you guys are on the floor about to vote for SB 406, it's a great bill.

462. 1:19:41

     I just think that it would be bulletproof if it has that amendment specifically stating that to serve on this board, you are not to be on an active HOA law firm payroll or the payroll of a property management firm. That's my one ask.

463. 1:19:57

     Did you get that-

464. 1:19:58

     If we do not get that-

465. 1:19:58

     ... in that language? Um-

466. 1:20:00

     Yeah

467. 1:20:00

     ... you know what? Thank you.

468. 1:20:01

     If we don't get that, I'm gonna be extremely concerned.

469. 1:20:03

     Well, let me-

470. 1:20:03

     And, yeah

471. 1:20:03

     ... let me say this. We were trying to get the bill out of the first-

472. 1:20:08

     Yes

473. 1:20:08

     ... and so once-

474. 1:20:08

     Chamber, yeah

475. 1:20:09

     But I-

476. 1:20:09

     Before crossover, yeah

477. 1:20:10

     ... I do have people on the House side-

478. 1:20:13

     Mm-hmm

479. 1:20:13

     ... who, uh, we had that same concern.

480. 1:20:16

     O- okay, I'm glad it's come up.

481. 1:20:18

     And y- and as the co-author-

482. 1:20:21

     Mm-hmm

483. 1:20:21

     ... I didn't want them to think that I didn't want the bill.

484. 1:20:25

     Mm-hmm.

485. 1:20:25

     They would say, "Oh, well, we're doing what the co-author wanted."

486. 1:20:29

     Yeah, yeah.

487. 1:20:29

     "We're not gonna pass it."

488. 1:20:30

     Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay.

489. 1:20:32

     'Cause you been up around here long enough-

490. 1:20:33

     Yeah

491. 1:20:33

     ... to know-

492. 1:20:34

     Yeah

493. 1:20:34

     ... the little games.

494. 1:20:36

     Yes, unfortunately.

495. 1:20:37

     This is serious business.

496. 1:20:38

     Yeah, it, yeah.

497. 1:20:38

     We don't want any games. So-

498. 1:20:40

     Yeah

499. 1:20:40

     ... um, we'll, I'll talk to you-

500. 1:20:42

     Okay

501. 1:20:43

     ... and I'll give you a name of a couple of people that you might wanna talk to.

502. 1:20:47

     You let Viola Davis-

503. 1:20:47

     And I will be there.

504. 1:20:48

     Yeah, let Viola Davis-

505. 1:20:49

     I already have

506. 1:20:50

     ... Chris Scofield know that I will be outside of their doors.

507. 1:20:53

     Um, yeah.

508. 1:20:53

     Representative Sanchez, I will be-

509. 1:20:55

     She would be, she would be a-

510. 1:20:56

     Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

511. 1:20:56

     ... a very good person.

512. 1:20:57

     Yeah. No, for sure.

513. 1:20:58

     Or, or Sandra.

514. 1:20:59

     Yes, a- all of them.

515. 1:21:00

     Um.

516. 1:21:00

     Yeah.

517. 1:21:01

     And also-

518. 1:21:02

     Yeah

519. 1:21:02

     ... now we have another person that introduced a similar bill.

520. 1:21:07

     Mm-hmm.

521. 1:21:07

     Um, and his name is Eric, uh, Bell.

522. 1:21:13

     I- is he in the House?

523. 1:21:14

     In, Eric Bell-

524. 1:21:15

     Okay, yeah

525. 1:21:15

     ... in the House.

526. 1:21:15

     Okay. Yeah.

527. 1:21:16

     And he, uh, uh, he might be on the committee that, uh, it was given to.

528. 1:21:21

     Okay. I'll look into that.

529. 1:21:23

     Well, it's not given to him yet-

530. 1:21:24

     Yeah, yeah, yeah

531. 1:21:25

     ... because we have to have it on the floor-

532. 1:21:26

     But we'll get it to him

533. 1:21:27

     ... and then it'll go over there. But who we think it's going to.

534. 1:21:30

     Mm-hmm.

535. 1:21:31

     Um, so maybe, uh, we can work that out.

536. 1:21:36

     For sure.

537. 1:21:36

     Because that is-

538. 1:21:37

     Yeah

539. 1:21:37

     ... we don't want any loopholes, um-

540. 1:21:39

     It's a glaring one-

541. 1:21:41

     Yeah

542. 1:21:41

     ... and an obvious one in my opinion. Yeah. So thank you once again.

543. 1:21:45

     But you better tell me any others you think of now, because you, you are an expert at this.

544. 1:21:49

     Yeah.

545. 1:21:50

     And we do, uh, respect, uh, your suggestions-

546. 1:21:54

     Yeah

547. 1:21:54

     ... and ideas. So-

548. 1:21:55

     For sure

549. 1:21:56

     ... if you have any more, let us know this, because time is of the essence.

550. 1:22:00

     Yeah. Crossover day is next Friday, I believe, right? Yeah. Yeah.

551. 1:22:02

     And the, and the whole session-

552. 1:22:04

     Yeah

553. 1:22:04

     ... ends on April the 2nd.

554. 1:22:07

     Yeah. Yeah.

555. 1:22:08

     Plu- plus we need to start doing everything 'cause next week is when people will qualify to run against us.

556. 1:22:15

     Yeah.

557. 1:22:15

     And we might not be here if we-

558. 1:22:16

     Yeah

559. 1:22:17

     ... uh, wanting one more year or something.

560. 1:22:20

     You guys get impartiality amendment in there, I will be working and campaigning for all of you. If I can't do it myself, I will find volunteers.

561. 1:22:28

     Okay. Um, put that-

562. 1:22:28

     You have my word

563. 1:22:29

     ... put that down. I heard that.

564. 1:22:32

     Thank you. Thank you.

565. 1:22:33

     Tha- thank you.

566. 1:22:34

     Yeah. Yeah.

567. 1:22:34

     And is there anything else you'd like to share with us?

568. 1:22:37

     Um, Senator Brass mentioned in SB 406, I couldn't find it. Other people couldn't find it. People put it through their little AI, they scanned it, I manual scan it. I could not see a provision that he mentioned in there that referred to the fact that associations aren't allowed to take your payment and allocate it towards fines. Now, there is a provision that states you cannot be foreclosed on because of fines, only unpaid assessments, you know, if it goes to $4,000.

569. 1:23:08

     But I haven't, I haven't been able to see a piece of legislation that actually talks about a homeowner paying their assessment and having that assessment wiped out because the board members or the property management company or their lawyers, they'll take that payment and say, "You know what? We're gonna apply it to whatever fine you have," making it look like you're in arrears. That's another-

570. 1:23:29

     But they're doing that.

571. 1:23:30

     Oh, 100%.

572. 1:23:31

     Uh, what, what, uh, I believe-

573. 1:23:34

     Yeah

574. 1:23:34

     ... that he meant was, uh, he talked to several people-

575. 1:23:39

     Mm-hmm

576. 1:23:39

     ... in his community-

577. 1:23:40

     Mm-hmm

578. 1:23:40

     ... who said that they were fined-

579. 1:23:43

     Mm-hmm

580. 1:23:43

     ... for what they call frivolous-

581. 1:23:45

     Mm-hmm

582. 1:23:45

     ... things. And, uh, they would not take their fees anymore, their money that they pay them f- to be a part of, or be a member of that HOA.

583. 1:23:57

     Yeah, that's impunity.

584. 1:23:58

     And, but they took the money, but they wouldn't take it for, uh, to apply it toward their fee.

585. 1:24:04

     Okay.

586. 1:24:04

     They did what, th- right now is, is nothing that says they can't apply it to-

587. 1:24:08

     Correct

588. 1:24:09

     ... whatever the lien is or whatever, because if they go further and say that, um, the lien, um, once taken care of, uh, then the money will be restored to-

589. 1:24:23

     Yeah

590. 1:24:23

     ... catching up-

591. 1:24:25

     Correct

592. 1:24:25

     ... on the fees if they not, have not given you another lien for being behind

593. 1:24:30

     Correct

594. 1:24:31

     So, so that's what he was, he was trying to resolve.

595. 1:24:34

     Okay, yeah.

596. 1:24:34

     And maybe we need to look at it and see if it needs to be reworded properly.

597. 1:24:40

     Yeah.

598. 1:24:40

     Uh, he's open to... He wants to help people.

599. 1:24:43

     Yeah.

600. 1:24:43

     That's why he's doing that. Don't think that... It's, everything is so partisan over there.

601. 1:24:49

     Yeah.

602. 1:24:49

     So, because he might not be in my particular party-

603. 1:24:53

     You hear that

604. 1:24:53

     ... or your particular party-

605. 1:24:54

     Yeah

606. 1:24:55

     ... does not mean that he is not very, very interested in making sure that this happens, 'cause he's taking heat on this from his people.

607. 1:25:04

     I'm sure. I'm sure.

608. 1:25:05

     But, you know, it's...

609. 1:25:08

     Yeah.

610. 1:25:08

     He can be black, white, orange, polka dot.

611. 1:25:10

     Yeah. Rural, urban.

612. 1:25:12

     A person can do... Yeah.

613. 1:25:14

     Up, down. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

614. 1:25:16

     It doesn't matter. They will still be hurt and lose their homes.

615. 1:25:20

     Yeah.

616. 1:25:20

     So we want, we wanna make sure that we covering everybody-

617. 1:25:24

     Yeah

618. 1:25:24

     ... and that he is not putting himself on a limb.

619. 1:25:28

     Yeah.

620. 1:25:28

     But he's coming out, reaching out to help people like all of us on this committee.

621. 1:25:33

     Yeah.

622. 1:25:33

     Uh, because most of the people on this committee, uh, came on their own when we had those other hearings.

623. 1:25:39

     Mm-hmm. Yeah.

624. 1:25:40

     So.

625. 1:25:41

     Yeah. And, and so I know that-

626. 1:25:42

     We, we admitted to you, we, we might not know everything, but some of them do think they do.

627. 1:25:46

     Yeah.

628. 1:25:48

     But I, I'm open.

629. 1:25:49

     No, for sure, and I'm glad that you guys are. Um, and then the other issue... And like that issue right there is not as pressing as probably the over- the oversight impartiality. I feel if we do, if it-

630. 1:25:59

     Oh

631. 1:25:59

     ... passes and we don't get that, I feel the commission, the oversight commission board is doomed almost from day one. That's my personal opinion. That's my professional opinion about looking at how it's designed to be set up. 'Cause these aren't gonna be elect- elected commission people. They're gonna be appointed by the governor, the leader of the Senate-

632. 1:26:17

     Leave it to the governor, yeah

633. 1:26:17

     ... and the leader of the House, basically. Um, the other thing that I previously mentioned was election integrity. I believe Connie mentioned, um, you know, uh, election monitoring. There's other states such as Pennsylvania, and I always refer to that state, but there's others as well. But Pennsylvania takes HOA election fraud very seriously. There are multiple stories, recent stories, of people being arrested for committing HOA election fraud because if you commit election fraud in the state of Pennsylvania w- via association, they treat it virtually the same as committing a fraud in a local or state election.

634. 1:26:50

     We don't need to reinvent the wheel, but if someone is blatantly committing election fraud, fake proxies, in order to gain a position on the board, I think they should be prosecuted if possible under the already existing state law when it comes to election fraud. I just wanted to notate that. That may not be, like, a level one right now, um, HOA issue, 'cause there's no bill that addresses that, but something down the line to think about. But as of today, I think impartiality should be everyone's number one priority. Whether you're a homeowner, condo owner, a senator, a representative, I think that should really come to debate on the Senate floor and the House floor.

635. 1:27:28

     So, yeah.

636. 1:27:29

     I appreciate your statement.

637. 1:27:31

     Yeah.

638. 1:27:32

     And we will take heed. Thank you so much.

639. 1:27:34

     Okay. I appreciate it.

640. 1:27:35

     Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Are there any other people who want to speak? I'll give you then, uh, the HOA bills and, and the status that we have already. On the, uh, Senate Bill 107, it is in the Economic Development Committee, which is a brand-new, uh, senator, Drew Echols, he's the chairman.

641. 1:28:08

     And it, of course, was authored by James. Uh, where's Robinson? James Robinson. I, I'll say that right now. And also, it protects homeowners in community associations, monitoring of elections for boards of directors, uh, and, uh, community associations. And it is to provide for annual registration of community associations and related fees.

642. 1:28:39

     It has not moved and it, and nobody... He's not taking any more bills past Tuesday, so I've been begging to be one of the ones, uh, that he would take, because I also have Senate Bill 108, and it was to provide certificates of good standing for payment of annual assessments, to require associations to offer to participate in alternative dispute resolutions prior to the, uh, to the lien on the lot for the unpaid assessments.

643. 1:29:15

     Uh, right now, they don't get receipts. Most people don't even get a receipt for the money that they're paying. And in a, uh, if you're having a hearing of any kind, whether it is with a judge in front of, a board or whatever, they can't always prove, 'cause it's their word against the other folk. They, they don't have the... So we just, this is simple. Just give them a certificate which is like a receipt, and if anything ever comes up, then they have a way to say, "I have been paying.

644. 1:29:52

     This is an emergency and, uh, can we make some kind of, uh, deal where I pay X amount per month to catch up while I'm continuing to pay my other dues?" That will count right then, not a year from now. So anyway, that's 108, and he's not inter- he's not interested in that one either. And of course, Brass had more than one bill. Uh, he has the bill, authorization of liens and use of assessments to, uh, provide for registration of property owners' associations.

645. 1:30:30

     Rules and regulations regarding, uh, administrative hearings and escrow of funds. He wanted to look at that, and, uh, if you look at 406, a little of that is, is, uh, in that particular bill. He talked about escrow. What's the bill number again? That was, uh, 361. Senate Bill 361. Okay, uh, and, uh, Kemp had a great bill about training people, Senate Bill 393, and we tried to put the major part of his, uh, bill in, uh, 406 yesterday, and we were unable at the last minute to do that, but it still has places to go.

646. 1:31:27

     It's still gonna go on the floor of the Senate. It's still going over to the House where, uh, Senator Kemp has already talked to some people about trying to make an amendment, uh, to it or a substitution if possible. But let's be real, the person whose first name on that bill is Brass, and Brass is a chair, and not just a chair, he's the Chair of Rules.

647. 1:32:00

     Everything goes through Rules, even if it's coming back from the House. Everything go- And those, and the legislators know that their bills are gonna go through Rules, so often they don't touch his bills period. That's why it, that's good and then that's not so good if you wanna make changes. It's good because I think we will have at least one bill on this pass. Hope- I'm, I'm not being negative, I'm being real.

648. 1:32:32

     Hopefully we'll have two, three, four, but we'll, we'll go with the one because we can build on it, and, and also because that one is gonna stop allowing them to foreclose on your property if you're behind. You have so many other alternatives, correct? Okay, and, um, so his, uh, Senate Bill 191 is not dead yet. I mean, 393, excuse me.

649. 1:33:02

     Brass' bill, 406, that, uh, passed out of judiciary yesterday, is now in his rules committee. And you, people can go to Rules and ask for bills to come off. And my name is on that number too. I'm gonna go ask so he won't, they won't think he's doing something for himself. So, uh, and I do have some other members on that committee that help to vote whether it comes off and goes to the floor who are willing to work with us and try to get it off as soon as any of our bills come into Rules.

650. 1:33:42

     So there's hope. There's a, there's a light. And of course, the last one we talked about was 580, and, uh, do you have any questions about his bill? No? Okay. And right now it is introduced, and it does have a number, and it has a committee. But, uh, we're gonna try to write a letter maybe, uh, if it's okay with you, Senator. Sure. Write a letter and encourage to... We're gonna write the letter to the chair of the committee that it's assigned to.

651. 1:34:17

     Time is of the essence. We're gonna do some, uh, emails and texts and everything to him in the next few days, 'cause we're off until, uh- Tuesday ... Tuesday at 1:00. That mean we're gonna be here till midnight that night . And SB, I mean, HB 10- Sorry. It's okay. Okay, one more in the Senate is Senate Bill 521. It creates residency requirements for board members and officers, and it was, it's in Economic Development and Tourism.

652. 1:34:57

     I'm on that committee. I asked, um, my chair if he would hear this. He hadn't heard it yet, but we have a few more days, so we hope that, um... Have you read it, uh, Mr. Williams, Michael? I'm only looking at, um, 580. I did not read the other one that you sent. Okay, 521. Okay. Yeah. I'm not, I'm not that interested in that one. Okay, and I would like to also remind you that we heard that, uh, HB 1035 passed this morning in Ways and Means, and people were, uh, there with bra- with bracelets on and T-shirts and everything.

653. 1:35:41

     We didn't, we didn't put any money toward that, but if y'all want T-shirts and, and armba- I'll buy them for you. I'll volunteer, but I don't think, I think we need to put our energies in passing these bills. But if you think that that would help, maybe I could even get, uh, one of our, uh, lobbyists or something who support us to, to do something like that. Again, we've been open with you from the beginning to hear what your concerns are and any suggestions, so we're still open.

654. 1:36:14

     House, that was the only House bill concerning housing really, uh, in, came through the Ways and Means already. It's going into Rules. I'm gonna talk to the Rules chair on that side. I'll, I've already asked him when our bill, when I call our bill 406, when Senate Bill 406 comes over, if he has any problems with it, can I talk to him now, and those kind of things. So, uh, he is someone that I can work with.

655. 1:36:48

     Okay. I think we wrapped it up, and you can still go home early I hope. It's, it's overcast out there or raining, I don't know. But I hope that, uh, we have informed you, and you know we're working for you, the people, not i- the politics. But you gotta have the politics in it to, to get it through because it, this is the world we live in. This is where we are.

656. 1:37:19

     So, um, before I end, anybody have any suggestions? Uh, our attorney, do you... Uh, we are going to-

657. 1:37:27

     I want to go out, um, we have to work on the amendments. And, um, I got the, I think I got the idea of what you're saying. You do. She's gonna have a couple of follow-up questions, and that's it. I think she's

658. 1:37:35

     Mm-hmm.

659. 1:37:36

     Okay.

660. 1:37:36

     So we- okay. So we, we are looking to make sure that we dot every I and cross every T. We tried to do that before we even came today, before we even introduced these bills. But there are many things in the law that slip, so we make sure we looking at that. And do you have any report for us you think we should do from research? You think we need to look up something else and... Uh, because you, we heard about, uh, for example, the president of that association has the audacity to tell people any old thing because some of the things she was saying, I know that that's not legal and that's not right.

661. 1:38:24

     For example, he's gonna be there because they m- didn't have a quorum on one of the meetings that they had, where they were supposed to vote. So why wouldn't the next meeting they vote? See if it's- I can run the research on that topic if you submit a research request. I will. Uh, we will. You'll be here tomorrow? Yes, I'll be here. Okay, good. I will make sure you get that. Okay. Thank you. Any, any other questions? If not, we are adjourned.

662. 1:38:55

     I thank you, thank you for working with us and staying with us, and we're halfway through now. Maybe even further than that. So thank you.

663. 1:39:28

     Thank you.